Gathering in SB worry, HP/ def/ GP scaling. Deep vigor reexamining?

From 2.0 to 3.0 the hp and def did not really increase properly. It is too easy to be MPKed on folklore nodes and if you are unlucky trapped in a small area you die and LOSE ALL YOUR SLOW REGENERATING GP! also why is job change start you at 400 gp when we have 500 gp abilities? Also MPK immunity will be nice.

Also why is deep vigor so useless? It is only usable on leaves at 25+ and rarely unspoiled nodes. (50 and 60, depending what abilities you use but basically useless if you want most out of your 30 mins/1hr) I was told it was from being forgotten when the game changed to having 4 hits being the standard. The only more useless ability in the game is feather foot.

I don't think HP and def matters that much with Gathering. You shouldn't be getting into fights. If there are mobs around you should be using stealth.

GP is getting a trait that increases the speed it regenerates at 61. No real indication if the start point is changing though. Would be nice if it scaled up a bit or just started at 0 or max like battle classes depending on if you were in a sanctuary or not.

Honestly they might cut Deep Vigor if it is useless. There are a number of rather useless abilities which could probably be culled and replaced with something more interesting.

Honestly we have very little information to go on as far as Gatherers and Crafters go. They weren't even mentioned in the Media Tour Live letter and not much before that. Personally I would love to find out more about what endgame gearing for the classes will be because it really effects how I want to target levelling my crafters and gatherers. I am not worried. Its just we don't have much to go on.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

It is too easy to be MPKed on folklore nodes and if you are unlucky trapped in a small area you die and LOSE ALL YOUR SLOW REGENERATING GP!

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Use Stealth lol

stealth does not fix this. You do not have enough room to land, land area of being safe is too far, or you have to walk too far. As far as MPK, you 2 never seen this? Person brings monster to gather node, use aoe, break stealth, monster kills the person, resets, then aggros you because the aoe broke stealth.

The GP thing, a trait or something should been added in the 50-60 bracket, the current setup was not meant to go past 50.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

stealth does not fix this. You do not have enough room to land, land area of being safe is too far, or you have to walk too far. As far as MPK, you 2 never seen this? Person brings monster to gather node, use aoe, break stealth, monster kills the person, resets, then aggros you because the aoe broke stealth.

The GP thing, a trait or something should been added in the 50-60 bracket, the current setup was not meant to go past 50.

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There are all of 0 folklore nodes that you do not have time/space to stealth to get to. There was a mention of GP things in the live letter before last though.

edit: And no I have never been killed by someone else pulling a mob. Server jerk thing? Though I was on Balmung for a few months and it never happened there either so /shrug.

Never seen anyone ever use that tactic to kill another player at a gathering node...must be a Balmung thing. Sounds like a wonderful community...

Also, there's always a place to land and stealth that's no more than 10 seconds from any node you're trying to reach.

I do not think it is a "Balmung" thing but more of people not paying attention (doing something else while gathering)/ gather bot thing. There is like 5 or so gather bots people been reporting for years that SE refuses do anything with.

I am just tried of having my GP be set to zero/ being kicked out of rare nodes for BS reasons. I think you should be better protected when you got only once to gather from every 30 mins/ 1 hr.

About GP, I found the Q/A:

0:52:50
Q: With the level cap being increased, I believe the maximum amount of GP we can have will increase. Will the speed in which GP recovers increase?
A: The speed won't change; however there is a new trait which will increase the speed for GP recovery. Players will be able to obtain this trait through the class quest series, so make sure to do them!

As an additional note, players will only learn one action for their job/class through quests. These actions are received as a reward for completing the job/class quest series, so until then, the story will be the key element for these quests. For Disciples of War and Magic, I believe you can complete all the job quests at one time when you hit level 70; however, for Disciples of the Land and Hand, the story is directly tied into the gathering/crafting, so please complete them in order.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

Never seen anyone ever use that tactic to kill another player at a gathering node...must be a Balmung thing. Sounds like a wonderful community....

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I've seen this at multiple nodes. It's usually not a person attempting to draw the aggro to others gathering, they just land in a bad spot and don't notice they have aggro until they run over to the node. By the time they notice it, the mob has already put down an aoe field and they can't do anything about it.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

I am just tried of having my GP be set to zero/ being kicked out of rare nodes for BS reasons. I think you should be better protected when you got only once to gather from every 30 mins/ 1 hr.

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Mob AoEs can only hit you through stealth if you aren't actually interacting with a gathering node, unless you happened to aggro a mob just as you use stealth. Neither of these are an issue by game design, and just mean you'll have to be more careful.

And like Aramina stated, I can also confirm that there aren't any folklore nodes that don't have a safe way of landing and going into stealth near the node.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

Mob AoEs can only hit you through stealth if you aren't actually interacting with a gathering node, unless you happened to aggro a mob just as you use stealth. Neither of these are an issue by game design, and just mean you'll have to be more careful.

And like Aramina stated, I can also confirm that there aren't any folklore nodes that don't have a safe way of landing and going into stealth near the node.

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Nope, I was on the node while the Aoe hit me, I can't put on stealth again while on the node. It did aoe while I was on it, took my stelth away, reset, aggro me because the aoe took my stealth, then MPK.

Deep Vigor is meant to be used with the other ability you get at 25.

It's also good paired with Luck of the Mountaineer/Pioneer.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Deep Vigor is meant to be used with the other ability you get at 25.

It's also good paired with Luck of the Mountaineer/Pioneer.

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1100- 1350 gp is what you need before it becomes worth using.
Also you need a +1 node and 300 gp to make it work outside leves (not worth it)
for the last line no it is not, you are better off with blessed harvest II + leaf turn + field mastery

I forgot about ageless words, that ability is even more useless then Deep Vigor is. See how useless it is? It is so unused I forgot it's existence to complain about it.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

for the last line no it is not, you are better off with blessed harvest II + leaf turn + field mastery

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Blessed Harvest II does nothing for Luck of the Pioneer.

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I forgot about ageless words, that ability is even more useless then Deep Vigor is. See how useless it is? It is so unused I forgot it's existence to complain about it.

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It's the exact same ability.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

Nope, I was on the node while the Aoe hit me, I can't put on stealth again while on the node. It did aoe while I was on it, took my stelth away, reset, aggro me because the aoe took my stealth, then MPK.

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That sounds like you simply didn't have stealth up. There's been numerous occasions where I ended up in the AoE of the mobs near the adamantite node (due to one of the many other mines forgetting stealth), and I've never actually been hit by it, as long as I was in stealth and interacting with the node.

If for some odd reason (a bug perhaps?), you still get hit, I guess you could always just summon your chocobo to act as a distraction.

As for Deep Vigor, that ability is great for the unspoiled nodes (since those are 6 hits by default), if you're aiming to get 1-2 HQ materials for a craft. It was especially good during ARR as a consistent route of getting the HQ items used to turn in for the higher ilvl gathering tools.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Blessed Harvest II does nothing for Luck of the Pioneer.



It's the exact same ability.

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So? more often then not you will average more HQs doing what I said, or at least more items to craft with. There is no reason in the world to use ageless words, making Deep Vigor/brunt force useless. (Unless you get SUPER lucky on collectables, guess you use it then)

No it is not.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

That sounds like you simply didn't have stealth up. There's been numerous occasions where I ended up in the AoE of the mobs near the adamantite node (due to one of the many other mines forgetting stealth), and I've never actually been hit by it, as long as I was in stealth and interacting with the node.

If for some odd reason (a bug perhaps?), you still get hit, I guess you could always just summon your chocobo to act as a distraction.

As for Deep Vigor, that ability is great for the unspoiled nodes (since those are 6 hits by default), if you're aiming to get 1-2 HQ materials for a craft. It was especially good during ARR as a consistent route of getting the HQ items used to turn in for the higher ilvl gathering tools.

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I know what I had on, the Aoe broke stelth, and I do not even think the adamantite node has AoE? This happened on the Lumythrite Ore node, and Old-growth Camphorwood Log node. Yes I had stealth up, the AoE broke it.

Why care about 1-2 HQ? what I said nets 3 average, hell i got 12/15 once.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

So? more often then not you will average more HQs doing what I said, or at least more items to craft with. There is no reason in the world to use ageless words

No it is not.

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Luck of the Pioneer isn't for HQs though, so getting more HQs that way has no relevance.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Luck of the Pioneer isn't for HQs though, so getting more HQs that way has no relevance.

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I got no clue what you are getting at then. ageless words/solid reason and deep vigor/brunt force are not worth using, ever, outside lucky collectables and leves.

When you get it at 25 you need spend gp on the field masters. The reason you can use deep vigor/brunt force on leves because the nodes have enough hits to use it without needing ageless words/solid reason (I was told that was the amount of hits you use to get on normal nodes before some change which means that change had an oversight effect on deep vigor/brunt force.)

The only way to actually use deep vigor/brunt force is wasting GP on +1 nodes, wasting GP on rare nodes, and IF SUPER LUCKY legitimately be able use it on collectables on rare nodes . (I think this is only applies for red scrip collectables off folklore nodes) the abilities need reworking or flat out removed since it confuses people to get an ability they cant reasonably use?

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Originally Posted by Hamada

I know what I had on, the Aoe broke stelth

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If you were getting hit through stealth while already interacting with a node, then you clearly didn't have stealth on.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

, and I do not even think the adamantite node has AoE?

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The adamantite was the most popular for capping red scrips, for a long time. One of the spawns had a mob very close to it, and out of the army of miners, one would always manage to forget about stealth and pull aggro. This is also one of the numerous occasions where I ended up in the mob's AoE, without getting interrupted, as I was in stealth and interacting with the adamantite node.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

Why care about 1-2 HQ? what I said nets 3 average, hell i got 12/15 once.

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Back when I still cared about getting the raw HQ mats, I didn't have enough gathering to push the base gathering to 95%. If I wanted to get 2 HQ meteorite or crystallized sap, I simply used Toil (300) + Field Mastery II (100) + Bountiful Harvest/Yield (200) to receive 2 HQ mats. If I used GP food to reach 700gp, I'd also be able to add a Leaf Turn/Unearth (100). Sure, your suggested rotation might average out at 3 HQ per node, but I've had plenty of nodes without getting a single HQ, or getting a miss due to not being at 100% gathering, due to only being able to use Field Mastery.

You also completely glanced over the part where I said "It was especially good during ARR as a consistent route of getting the HQ items used to turn in for the higher ilvl gathering tools." The bolded part being the most important part. It was a consistent, but slightly slower way of getting the HQ items for turn ins during ARR, due to the complete lack of RNG in that rotation.

I also have no idea what you're getting at with this normal node change. Normal (non-leve) nodes have always been 4 hits, unspoiled nodes have always been 6 hits.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

It is too easy to be MPKed on folklore nodes and if you are unlucky trapped in a small area you die and LOSE ALL YOUR SLOW REGENERATING GP! also why is job change start you at 400 gp when we have 500 gp abilities?.

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Uhhhhh because without any gear equipped your max GP is ONLY 400? CP doesn't count on that argument since it regenerates after every single craft. Gathering is done out there on the dangerous field, crafting is done in safe areas, unless you're a badass.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

If you were getting hit through stealth while already interacting with a node, then you clearly didn't have stealth on.
You also completely glanced over the part where I said "It was especially good during ARR as a consistent route of getting the HQ items used to turn in for the higher ilvl gathering tools." The bolded part being the most important part. It was a consistent, but slightly slower way of getting the HQ items for turn ins during ARR, due to the complete lack of RNG in that rotation.

I also have no idea what you're getting at with this normal node change. Normal (non-leve) nodes have always been 4 hits, unspoiled nodes have always been 6 hits.

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I did not glance over anything, this is not 2.0 is it? This is 3.0+ going on 4.0 while having no upgrades to the GP issue 50-60 when it should have been.

I am pretty sure adamantite has no AoE, Yes I seen that too but I never got hit there because no AoE that I am aware of. It is not the same for Lumythrite Ore node and Old-growth Camphorwood Log node. Do not tell me I did not stealth before the node when I did. I had stealth on, I clicked the node, it aoe, it took stealth off, then it aggored me and kill me.

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Originally Posted by Bacent

Uhhhhh because without any gear equipped your max GP is ONLY 400? CP doesn't count on that argument since it regenerates after every single craft. Gathering is done out there on the dangerous field, crafting is done in safe areas, unless you're a badass.

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Yes I know, and when we need 600+ gp, why does it go to 400? it is not balanced (required gp use vs what you get) I do not care if 400 is the base, my point is GP is too slow and abilities cost too much for that speed. This is not level 50 cap anymore, it is now 60 going on 70. If my gear is enough to hold 650 gp , I should start there.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

Yes I know, and when we need 600+ gp, why does it go to 400? it is not balanced (required gp use vs what you get) I do not care if 400 is the base, my point is GP is too slow and abilities cost too much for that speed. This is not level 50 cap anymore, it is now 60 going on 70. If my gear is enough to hold 650 gp , I should start there.

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Watered Cordial, Cordial, Hi Cordial?

Watered Cordial HQ only has a 2 min 6 second cooldown and recovers 200 GP HQ. More than enough time to cooldown before another node, or even if you're trying to get two nodes at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Bacent

Watered Cordial, Cordial, Hi Cordial?

Watered Cordial HQ only has a 2 min 6 second cooldown and recovers 200 GP HQ. More than enough time to cooldown before another node, or even if you're trying to get two nodes at the same time.

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I craft my own HQs, thanks, it is not enough. They put too many rare nodes, lol

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Originally Posted by Hamada

Yes I know, and when we need 600+ gp, why does it go to 400? it is not balanced (required gp use vs what you get) I do not care if 400 is the base, my point is GP is too slow and abilities cost too much for that speed.

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Because 400 is enough for a lv 1 gatherer who have just started. GP increase with gear, not with level. And everytime you don't have gear with GP on you start at 400

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Originally Posted by Hamada

I did not glance over anything, this is not 2.0 is it? This is 3.0+ going on 4.0 while having no upgrades to the GP issue 50-60 when it should have been.

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I gave an example on how it was useful in 2.x, and how the same example can be applied to 3.x. It's a consistent, but slower way to obtain HQ mats without any RNG involved.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

I am pretty sure adamantite has no AoE, Yes I seen that too but I never got hit there because no AoE that I am aware of.

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Go and pull the mob near the adamantite node, wait a few seconds, and it'll cast a frontal cone AoE. You usually don't see this because most players who accidentally aggro it were smart enough to sprint away.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

It is not the same for Lumythrite Ore node and Old-growth Camphorwood Log node.

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Never had any stealth-related issues with either of these nodes.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

Do not tell me I did not stealth before the node when I did. I had stealth on, I clicked the node, it aoe, it took stealth off, then it aggored me and kill me.

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Sorry, but you either found some rare bug, or you really didn't have stealth up in time.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

Yes I know, and when we need 600+ gp, why does it go to 400? it is not balanced (required gp use vs what you get) I do not care if 400 is the base, my point is GP is too slow and abilities cost too much for that speed. This is not level 50 cap anymore, it is now 60 going on 70. If my gear is enough to hold 650 gp , I should start there.

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That was already answered. It's 400 GP because that's the character's base GP, the amount you'd have without any GP increasing gear equipped. The servers likely don't save how much GP a character has with gear equipped as a way to reduce server load. It's much easier for it to just look at the base GP value and start with that upon changing to a DoL class.

Why it can't work the same as CP might also be a leftover from 2.x, when GP always started at 0, while CP was always designed to be at 100% when swapping to a DoH class/finishing a craft.

The rate at which GP regenerates is also used by SE to limit the amount of unspoiled nodes players can obtain.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

The rate at which GP regenerates is also used by SE to limit the amount of unspoiled nodes players can obtain.

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If that is the real reason, it fails at doing that. Something needs to be reworked when it comes to gathering then. Also I am concerned they are depending on these nodes too much to try to control a failing economy. The reason people rarely make stuff to begin with is because there is not a lot of demand for it. (If people rarely make something, materials are rarely used, so no matter how much you limit a material, it will flood if much more is being gathered then used)

Most people take the free hand me gear route making demand for crafted made battle gear really low. It is only demanded by world firsts when it is new. That is the only time the artificial supply limit does anything. After a week or so bots flood it too much and ends up not mattering anymore. I can gather cycle nodes all day 24/7 every min, flying node to node, and something I used to do esp when I needed scripts because how convent the time spacing is. I do not do this anymore because the price of the gathering items is so low, when I feel like crafting something I just buy them. The only thing I bother to gather and watch time to time anymore is Volcanic Rock Salt because of the high yield per swing you get, making it more valuable then any other node currently.

So even with the supply limit, these rare nodes become unproductive to gather from unless you play literally 24/7 and have nothing to do as you wait for stuff to sell, assuming you have 8 retainers on 8 chrs filled. (Then x that by 2 for people that do that on 2 accounts, and yes that is a thing) The reason is opportunity cost, how long does it take me to gather node to node (the gp potions is a very tiny factor in this since they are cheap as dirt to make) going from node to node does take time and it does add up and should be a factor if something is productive to do and compare the total sales to do something else? I rather make 60k+ just taking 30 sec to do something over going node to node gathering from these folklore nodes and so on, that takes minutes + time and get 1/4 the gil I get off 30 seconds. Again the reason this happens is because as a big picture, FFXIV's economy is bad. This is not me saying you can't make money, oh you can make TONS of money if you wanted, more then you know what to do with, if you put the effort into it, that is why it fails, people sitting on too much gil with nothing to do with it, so the motivation of making gil is limited to those that want something mindless/ and or bots. I doono what SE was thinking with the rare nodes to begin with and hope what they achieve, but they do not sell much more then common node items like Mythrite Sand. One can even argue miniing Mythrite Sand all day will net you more gil then the rare nodes since you can gather so much with little loss to traveling. I have not exactly mathed that out but ya.... that will only show how worthless of an effort it was making the rare nodes and folklore nodes for the long term effect (I conceded the idea that they effect short term, about 1 week of release, after that the time node concept pretty much has no impact on the economy and a large part of that is lack of need of buying crafted gear.)

How many times do I need repeat myself? I do not think adamantite node have aoe, it is not an issue there, I said it is an issue at the Lumythrite Ore node and Old-growth Camphorwood Log node.

I might hit no HQs once in a while but I rather have an average of 3+ It is generally a useless ability for people that gear gathering well. At 25 it is useless outside leves, is SE even aware of how little used these 2 abilities are ? It is like they rarely focus on crafting and gathering issues and balance issues.

I guess I should been more clear where I wanted go with this thread. Basically I am asking why is the system like this? It does not work for whatever goal they have. Why, no matter how much you gear, max meld do you have a 60-80% hit rate on gathering materials while leveling? Are they simply trying to artificially slow down the rate someone levels? (missing is no items but no exp, do the overall goal is nulled) Why not cut down the exp per hit and remove the rng aspect (max melds/hq gear =100% hit rate) Why do they try so hard to limit HQ materials? It does not do much in the wide aspect of things, same with the GP system in general. Why have an an ability cost more then your default GP and cost more then your starting point? It is basically a system to annoy people (cheated out of rng, 0 gp on BS death, etc) with little to no reason other then an idea that it effects how much items come in the system. They do no control on how meany items LEAVE the system, so no matter what limits they try set, it does not work because SE does no encouragement to have players craft with so much hand me stuff.

Why is it a 15 yield per 30 mins per character =400 gil each? (and even has an opportunity cost with red scripts/foils and the market is still overflooded) Because no one uses them enough so people and bots flood the market.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

If that is the real reason, it fails at doing that.

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One of the reasons. Not the reason. Did you even read my post?

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Originally Posted by Hamada

How many times do I need repeat myself? I do not think adamantite node have aoe, it is not an issue there, I said it is an issue at the Lumythrite Ore node and Old-growth Camphorwood Log node.

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You can repeat it as many times as you want, but you'd still be wrong.
http://i.imgur.com/wKsb6mn.png

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Originally Posted by Hamada

I might hit no HQs once in a while but I rather have an average of 3+

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That's good for you. A rotation involving RNG is supposed to have a higher average. Both rotations are viable, the one I suggested simply has a lower rate without any RNG factored in.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

It is generally a useless ability for people that gear gathering well. At 25 it is useless outside leves, is SE even aware of how little used these 2 abilities are ? It is like they rarely focus on crafting and gathering issues and balance issues.

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Except the fact that it's not useless. If you want to look at a useless ability, look at Last Ditch.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

I guess I should been more clear where I wanted go with this thread. Basically I am asking why is the system like this? It does not work for whatever goal they have. Why, no matter how much you gear, max meld do you have a 60-80% hit rate on gathering materials while leveling? Are they simply trying to artificially slow down the rate someone levels? (missing is no items but no exp, do the overall goal is nulled) Why not cut down the exp per hit and remove the rng aspect (max melds/hq gear =100% hit rate)

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They expect you to use the abilities that have been given to you. The ones that increases gathering rate. If you're at 60% with max melds, you're trying to gather stuff that's way above your level.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

Why have an an ability cost more then your default GP and cost more then your starting point? It is basically a system to annoy people (cheated out of rng, 0 gp on BS death, etc)

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I dunno, maybe because they also designed gear to give you stats, GP being one of them. As for BS deaths, those are on you for not being careful.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

Why is it a 15 yield per 30 mins per character =400 gil each? (and even has an opportunity cost with red scripts/foils and the market is still overflooded) Because no one uses them enough so people and bots flood the market.

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Of course prices are gonna be lower, this late into the expansion. The stuff that's crafted with those mats aren't as worthwhile anymore, now that nearly all of the lockouts have been removed.

Hamada, why do you start an argument in every thread you make?

In ARR they added a feature wherein you can't get hit by AoEs while interacting with a gathering node or if your line is casted as long as the enemy has no aggro on you, this is a fact.

If you had the node window open and you got hit by an AoE then you had aggro on the monster, there are no ifs or buts, that's the only explanation, stop trying to argue otherwise, the feature will not disable itself just for you. If you had aggro then you didn't have stealth when you interacted with the node.

On deep vigor, I've used it when the node has bonus hits, so that by default means it has its uses.

Solid reason has a very good use, to "heal" a regular node, since you can leave the node when its 1 hit away, recover GP and heal the node to keep gathering from the same node. What's the point of this? Gathering hidden items like grade 5 carbonized matter, on top of what was mentioned before

If you don't like to use them no one is forcing you to use them, but other people do use them.

You can't sit there and tell me what happened to me. I was gathering Lumythrite Ore node and Old-growth Camphorwood Log node. Aoe broke my stealth, from those monsters. Has nothing to do with adamantite nodes. You can't sit here and "why do you start an argument in every thread you make?" when you guys are doing that to me. I said I was stealth, then on a node, the aoe broke my stealth, the game does not let you put stealth back up while on the node. If I clicked out of the node, the node vanishes. After I was hit with AoE that broke my stealth, it reset, then it went to aggro me. Telling me this did not happen to me is YOU AUGURING WITH ME, not the other way around. Just another example why I am told in game " I do not post on the forums because of high toxicity"

They are useless abilities, I thought that would be the accepted, but apparently that is "start an argument in every thread you make?"

As for last ditch, I stopped trying to use that, I have no idea what it does or what it is supposed to do, I gave up on that. I thought it was just me, if that is useless too well..

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Of course prices are gonna be lower, this late into the expansion. The stuff that's crafted with those mats aren't as worthwhile anymore, now that nearly all of the lockouts have been removed.

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They been that low for a long time, and even the new 3.4 nodes a week after release. They stop being worth it to gather a week after, the artificial time spacing does not do much. If 2 people on a forum are fine with a broken economy fine i guess, it is not going to change my view though.

I am only trying to help the game, point out flaws, and yet people chose to attack me, gg i guess. The whole gathering system never made sense to me as it does not meet the goals it supposedly have for itself, timed nodes became useless to gather from too quickly, has all these abilities that make no sense, and the slow regenerating GP, when put next to crafting, gathering as a full picture is downright broken.

When you craft something at level to 5 levels above you, you do not have a 20-40% miss rate no matter how well you gear/meld, you can complete it fine with still a decent chance of HQing.

As for "If you don't like to use them no one is forcing you to use them, but other people do use them." Look at the battle system and all the abilities they are taking out that are rarely used, gathering and crafting should be reexamined too. I do not know why they have such a strong focus on battle and neglect crafting and gathering so much. On that note why does it seem people care about battling so much and care little if something is balanced as far as gathering and crafting?

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Originally Posted by Hamada

They are useless abilities, I thought that would be the accepted, but apparently that is "start an argument in every thread you make?"

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You considering something useless does not mean others consider things useless.

Deep Vigor is great on any node that can be hit 6 times (the nodes in HW that do not have an inherent bonus have a random chance of getting one of the following bonuses +30% HQ, +25% gather chance, +2 Gather Chances, +1 Yield per gather)

On a +2 Gather Chance node with 550 GP you can do 2 things:

Sharp Vision -> Unearth II -> Strike x5 (45% HQ chance) -> Deep Vigor -> Bountiful Yield -> Strike (100% HQ x2) for a 2 to 7 HQ yield. 4.25 yield on average

Sharp Vision -> Strike x5 (15% HQ chance) -> Deep Vigor -> Bountiful Yield -> Solid Reason -> Strike (100% HQ x2) -> Strike (100% HQ) 3 to 7 HQ. 3.25 yield on average.

With 650 GP you can do the following at that same node.

Sharp Vision -> Unearth -> Strike x5 (25% HQ chance) -> Deep Vigor -> Bountiful Yield -> Solid Reason -> Strike (100% HQ x2) -> Strike (100% HQ) 3 to 7 HQ. 4.25 yield on average.

You start at 0 GP after dying because if you were to get GP when revived, you'd could kill yourself for GP to restore GP and you wouldn't have to use cordials.

The reason you start 400 GP after switching from another job is because all classes have 400 GP, and it regenerates on all jobs. It can't regenerate past 400 because that's the cap without equipment. SE could set the GP to something like 1000 on crafters and combat jobs, then it would go to up to 1000. Then when you switch to a gathering job, it would reduce down to 600 GP or whatever your gather job have for GP.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

You can't sit there and tell me what happened to me.

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Oh yes I can, this is like if someone said they went on miner and after opening a node they got the botanist window, that doesn't happen, that's not how the game works, and I don't know why you don't want to accept that the game isn't broken, that maybe the monster was already aiming the aoe to that spot before you interacted with the node (mobs in both of those nodes have no aoe marker, just cleaves) taking out your stealth right before you interacted with the node. Worst case scenario it's a bug that literally only happens to you and no one else in the entire game and you should report it in the bug reports section.

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Just another example why I am told in game " I do not post on the forums because of high toxicity"

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There's one constant and many variables here http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/s...vBForum_Thread

Try to find the constant. (and recommended read)

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Originally Posted by Hamada

They are useless abilities, I thought that would be the accepted, but apparently that is "start an argument in every thread you make?"

As for last ditch, I stopped trying to use that, I have no idea what it does or what it is supposed to do, I gave up on that. I thought it was just me, if that is useless too well..

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Well like I said you're free to not use them, those of us who do find use for them would like to keep using them instead of losing them.

People don't "choose" to attack you, in all those threads you started + all the others you didn't start but still went into an argument with other players you're the constant, you don't accept different opinions, you don't even entertain the idea that you might be wrong or that something wasn't handled well by you. If something keeps happening to you this often you could use some introspection.

For the last point, gathering and battle are not the same and should never be handled the same, for battle you have too many buttons to hit in a regular battle with more being added, for gathering it's 100% okay to have skills that are only useful in certain situations, because you're not supposed to be hitting every skill in the first place, crafting works the same way with many situational skills.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

(and recommended read)
.

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You are my new favorite person.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alimdia

Oh yes I can, this is like if someone said they went on miner and after opening a node they got the botanist window, that doesn't happen, that's not how the game works, and I don't know why you don't want to accept that the game isn't broken, that maybe the monster was already aiming the aoe to that spot before you interacted with the node (mobs in both of those nodes have no aoe marker, just cleaves) taking out your stealth right before you interacted with the node. Worst case scenario it's a bug that literally only happens to you and no one else in the entiregame and you should report it in the bug reports section.



There's one constant and many variables here http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/s...vBForum_Thread

Try to find the constant. (and recommended read)




Well like I said you're free to not use them, those of us who do find use for them would like to keep using them instead of losing them.

People don't "choose" to attack you, in all those threads you started + all the others you didn't start but still went into an argument with other players you're the constant, you don't accept different opinions, you don't even entertain the idea that you might be wrong or that something wasn't handled well by you. If something keeps happening to you this often you could use some introspection.

For the last point, gathering and battle are not the same and should never be handled the same, for battle you have too many buttons to hit in a regular battle with more being added, for gathering it's 100% okay to have skills that are only useful in certain situations, because you're not supposed to be hitting every skill in the first place, crafting works the same way with many situational skills.

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You need take your own advice:

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Originally Posted by alimdia

"The truth" isn't a valid excuse to be mean, OP worded his post very neutral, just wondering if there's anything they can do, they didn't demand anything from SE or from the community like a special snowflake would, they are just consulting if there's any option they overlooked, that doesn't warrant the harsh reply you and the other person gave.

It really isn't that hard to treat other people like human beings.

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I was stelthed, i clicked on the node, some bot got aggro and aoe the node, it hit me, stripped stealth, reset, agrroed me, killed me. I do not care what YOU THINK is supposed to happen, that is what happened to me.

Why is there drama in a thread about gathering hahhaha

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

(the nodes in HW that do not have an inherent bonus have a random chance of getting one of the following bonuses +30% HQ, +25% gather chance, +2 Gather Chances, +1 Yield per gather)

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You missed out a lot:

+35% HQ, +15% HQ, bonus yield +2, +1 gathering attempts etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hamada

I was stelthed, i clicked on the node, some bot got aggro and aoe the node, it hit me, stripped stealth, reset, agrroed me, killed me. I do not care what YOU THINK is supposed to happen, that is what happened to me.

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Has this happpened multiple times? Are you able to get a recording of it happening? People are a lot more willing to accept your claims if you can provide proof.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

You need take your own advice:

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Telling you that you are wrong is not mistreating you. The rest was me telling you that you can't complain about forum drama when you're the one starting it every time you get involved in one.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

I was stelthed, i clicked on the node, some bot got aggro and aoe the node, it hit me, stripped stealth, reset, agrroed me, killed me. I do not care what YOU THINK is supposed to happen, that is what happened to me.

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Go submit a bug report then, you discovered a bug that only happens to you, I'm sure the devs would love to investigate it.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

Telling you that you are wrong is not mistreating you. The rest was me telling you that you can't complain about forum drama when you're the one starting it every time you get involved in one.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by alimdia

There's one constant and many variables here http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/s...vBForum_Thread

Try to find the constant. (and recommended read)

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You are really that blind you can't see you are mistreating me? take your own damn advice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alimdia

"The truth" isn't a valid excuse to be mean, OP worded his post very neutral, just wondering if there's anything they can do, they didn't demand anything from SE or from the community like a special snowflake would, they are just consulting if there's any option they overlooked, that doesn't warrant the harsh reply you and the other person gave.

It really isn't that hard to treat other people like human beings.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by alimdia

Go submit a bug report then, you discovered a bug that only happens to you, I'm sure the devs would love to investigate it.

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I did not know it was a bug. I submitted a MPK report to a GM when it happened, since it was a bot anyway, and I explained that as well.

I was stelthed, i clicked on the node, some bot got aggro and aoe the node, it hit me, stripped stealth, reset, agrroed me, killed me. You are wrong for telling me I am wrong for saying what happened to me.

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Originally Posted by Mholito

Has this happpened multiple times? Are you able to get a recording of it happening? People are a lot more willing to accept your claims if you can provide proof.

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How in the hell was I supposed to know I needed proof to something trivial as this? How about, gasp, people should just be less toxic on the forums? maybe more people would be willing to post. You have any idea how much I am told "I do not post on the forums because they are too toxic?????"

I just want to make sure they examine gathering more closely for 4.0 since they did NOTHING for crafting and gathering for 3.0 (other then the useless specialist system that does not meet the goal they have in mind since hard core crafters make alts anyway, such as my ama) and get across my concerns why, not be belittled over if a bug/exploit/bot exploit/whatever happened to me, also it would be nice to make it harder to bot, that should be worthwhile for everyone get behind.

I just had a thought to show how useless that deep vigor rotation is. You get 1,1,1,1,1, 2 HQ right? off it. If we go by 3.4 node prices when they where new you get 25k NQ, 75k HQ, that's 125+175= 300k. With my rotation it is 3,3,3,3,3 , 15 items total. 15 x 25x= 375k, so even with zero HQs i have more value then your rotation, should i hit 12/3 (the average), that value is 225+300= 525k. (neglecting the fact I hit 3/12 once)

Now as you get lower prices like HQ not being triple the value of NQ, the gap of my rotation to using deep vigor grows even more, percent wise. So I need to ask again, why defending glaring game flaws/oversights?

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Originally Posted by Hamada

How in the hell was I supposed to know I needed proof to something trivial as this? How about, gasp, people should just be less toxic on the forums? maybe more people would be willing to post. You have any idea how much I am told "I do not post on the forums because they are too toxic?????"

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You are making a claim that goes counter to how the game is supposed to work. You also still haven't mentioned if it has happened multiple times, or if it only was that one time. A video would serve to prove your claim and/or let people figure out what caused it to happen. I was just making a sugestion, so please don't direct your frustrations at me!