What is casual / hardcore player?

We here talk abt casual hardcore player, what is definition for both and what is the content they seeking?

Casual : Easy + Fast Content? (Hard + Fast content?)
Hardcore : Hard + Slow content?

hardcore = person with a a lot of freetime
casual = someone with a life/girlfriend/job etc

Casual players probably want content they can make progress in with the limited time they have to play.

I don't think it's as simple as that.

I like challenging content but I have tons of time to spare (like I can be on 16+ hours a day).

The question is should people be forced to play 16+ hours a day like me to get the same rewards I do. Obviously there ARE people that equate time spent with being more deserving of loot than the more casual players.

I don't think it's fair to the casual players that hold jobs, have families and other responsibilities. They can't dedicate that much time and personally I'd kick them in the nuts if they chose the game over RL responsiblities.

In a lot of ways I'd place more value on skill than time. The problem is you need a time sink for people like me who CAN blow through content in a short amount of time. But you also need to balance it with the 'casual players' which would theoretically be the larger base of your players. These people need to feel like they're making SOME sort of progress with their limited time.

We've had this debate on and off many times before:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post318521
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post207644
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ll=1#post84871

I think I'll just copy pasta what I said in a past thread:

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

There's a lot of confusion recently since the terms "causal" and "hardcore" mean different things to different people.

IMO, the best rewards should go to the players with the best skills.

IF "casual" = "not skilled" and "hardcore" = "skilled", then yes, the best rewards should go to the hardcore players.


But, if "casual" = "can only play 1-5 hours a week" and "hardcore" = "plays 5 hours a day", then the best rewards should go to either player, since time spent playing this game is not at all an indicator of intelligence, strategy, skill, and cooperation. In this definition, if both players are of the same aptitude, they will both reap good rewards eventually, with the hardcore player getting them sooner on account of more time spent in game.


In the end, the good stuff should be rewarded to the players who are good enough to overcome challenges, regardless of how much time they are able to stay logged in.

Being able to camp a NM spawn for 24 hours straight is not a challenge.

Being able to defeat a NM that requires concentration, skill, strategy and cooperation IS a challenge.

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Casuals = #Occupywallstreet

Hardcore = Wallstreet

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Originally Posted by Searious

casual = someone with a life/girlfriend/job etc
.

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http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/2...5499708249.jpg

Please enlighten me.

hmm i think im not hardcore player ,
but i guess hardcore player is the one who want a content that casuals can not do or join.
like hi-end gear ( that is hard to get ) or specific build is necessary ( to join ) just like in WoW

Not this thread again...

The simplest way is to look at it as a matter of time.

Hardcore players devote a lot of time to the game, and use this extra playtime to their advantage (more class levels, more gil, more endgame gear, more achievements, etc.).

Casual players don't devote a lot of time to the game (because they can't, or don't feel compelled to). Casual players are content with a handful of achievements obtained within their limited playtime.

hardcore for me = time, also difficulty but difficutly can be part of both. but my perfect mmo would have caps on all fights as well as them being challenging. grinds like ffxi ..welcomed all day. minus the time waits for nm pops like in ffxi,make us have to fight or farm that entire time instead of afk. cop type missions, caps caps caps, even a system where if you hit a rank 1 mob at rank 50 you cap down to rank 1 to fight it. why not?

casual again to me is just not got the time or just don't want to put in that time for a game(or the secret hardcore that is jumping around multiple mmo's), like others said, they have "lives" girlfriends, married, children, old gamers that still want to game(or feel like they gaming) people who only like endgame? rather log in twice a week to do a event that 90% of the time is scheduled, ran, and lead by others aside from them. locusts some of them like rather play mmo's like they are regular offline games, run threw them quick till they bored easily and just move onto another mmo. but mostly it's all about time, the small chunk of game is enough for them and they will destroy all mmo's now to get to play them the way they want cause "casual somehow now means the bigger wallet in numbers" :)

also i don't necessarily think of hardcore or casual in skills, i think it simply comes down to this, you can be a very skilled player or you can have a lot of time to get the content down, but ...you can't suck and have no time to invest into the game. then you become something no one wants to roll with.

Casual: People who play the game for fun
Hardcore: People who ruin the game by constantly complaining

Obv. what is hardcore/casual is objective. A typical depiction is that hardcore players are elitist jerks with no lives who ruin the game with aggressive competition, while casuals are people with jobs who play the game at their own pace and expect things to be handed to them. But that's sort of biased, isn't it? :L

I feel like the best description would be:

Hardcore = players who have the skills to understand the mechanics of and defeat high-level bosses before the majority of the player base. Like Rentahamster said, this can also sometimes mean that these players simply have more playtime than others. While this is somewhat true, I also feel that there are usually enough people per sever who can dedicate large enough amounts of playtime that you'd be able to differentiate between those who play a lot and get things done, and those who play a lot and don't. There are some stellar players who have full-time jobs and families, but are able to complete endgame content before the majority of the server because of these skills.

Being hardcore also means being quick on the uptake of new ideas and strategies, understanding your role within a battle, understanding your job well enough to min/max your character in stats/gear/etc, as well as having the ability to work well with your guild-mates and take constructive criticism where needed.

Casual = This can describe people who simply have so much on their plates, be it work/family/etc, that they're unable to play the game as much as others; putting them at a disadvantage when it comes to job level and gear sets.

'Casual' can also describe players who just aren't concerned with being the best DPS/Tank/Healer/etc. that they can be, and completing endgame content before everyone else. These people play the game at their own pace, and don't feel the need to necessarily excel at playing the game as long as they're having fun.

Then again, a 'casual' can also mean that the player is simply not skilled or fast enough to compete with other, hardcore players. They might not be able to pick up on new strategies as quickly, or might not understand new stat/gear builds in order to min/max their characters. Some of these players might just not have enough experience in gaming or MMOs, and with some guidance can improve, while others are, unfortunately, a lost cause.

I hope I didn't offend anyone with this xD

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

Casual: People who play the game for fun
Hardcore: People who ruin the game by constantly complaining

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lets not provoke a fight shall we ? dont wanna have the 4th post about this silly thing

Regain hardcore, not all of the hardcore have a lot of free time like ppl say, they have work, life as well, the different between between hardcore and casual are the hardcore will try to get the most of their play time for example max exp/h

Those have a lot of free time and use on grind grind, are consider as mindless grind

Training in martial arts is considered hardcore because you need to train constantly in order to reap the rewards.
I guess martial artists have no life and no girlfriends.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leo_Hart

We here talk abt casual hardcore player, what is definition for both and what is the content they seeking?

Casual : Easy + Fast Content? (Hard + Fast content?)
Hardcore : Hard + Slow content?

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Casuals are aware that just because something takes a long time, that doesn't make it challenging or fun. Hardcores are convinced that the more time they have to spend doing nothing but still in game, that they're experiencing "real content."

inb4

Replies: 531 / Views: 13346

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Originally Posted by Antipika

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/2...5499708249.jpg

Please enlighten me.

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Someone elses hand of the female gender. /console

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Searious

hardcore = person with a a lot of freetime
casual = someone with a life/girlfriend/job etc

Casual players probably want content they can make progress in with the limited time they have to play.

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Just to add:
Hardcore players want to lock out others from content and rewards so they feel they are better than others, and their sad little lives feel less empty.



Unlike gaming in general, a hardcore MMO player is nothing but a guy who has a ton of free time. Skill has no part in it.

Man, you guys have some serious chips embedded deep within your shoulders :I

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

Casuals are aware that just because something takes a long time, that doesn't make it challenging or fun. Hardcores are convinced that the more time they have to spend doing nothing but still in game, that they're experiencing "real content."

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lol what you define as hardcore sounds like casual as well, i mean is real content using the game as a aol chat room? no it's playing and always having something to kill even if it's grindy. people play mmo's for different reasons and enjoy different types of styles of gameplay. it's just preferences and ..again time ..

you can have lots of time to play or be very skllled, but you can't suck and have no time to invest. that is for endgame. but reality is the grind/journey though don't take a brainsurgen is a very important part of all of it. you should have time for both if you chose to play mmo's. if they keep changing this mechanic then they are no longer mmo's.

Casuals believe they are playing an RPG.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ilean

Just to add:
Hardcore players want to lock out others from content and rewards so they feel they are better than others, and their sad little lives feel less empty.



Unlike gaming in general, a hardcore MMO player is nothing but a guy who has a ton of free time. Skill has no part in it.

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and you're telling me the casual player are the player with skill, the elite and those have skill in gaming ? cool story

Casual Player - Plays for a limited amount of time, either through necessity or choice.

Hardcore Player - Plays for a great deal of time in one setting, and often.

Neither is inherently more skillful. Nor does one indicate a desire for harder content and the other for easier, in spite of what dipsh*ts on the board might claim. One merely has more time than the other. Nothing more, nothing less.

I don't think hardcore players necessarily have more skill than casual players. Anyone can take a few minutes to read up on a class's common strategies/macros and put them to use immediately without much practice (although it's fair to say that it was probably hardcore players who came up with these ideas first).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AmyRae

I don't think hardcore players necessarily have more skill than casual players. Anyone can take a few minutes to read up on a class's common strategies/macros and put them to use immediately without much practice (although it's fair to say that it was probably hardcore players who came up with these ideas first).

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QFT ^

/moar

this thread again..

I will be in the Griss bunker.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by weeble

lol what you define as hardcore sounds like casual as well, i mean is real content using the game as a aol chat room? no it's playing and always having something to kill even if it's grindy. people play mmo's for different reasons and enjoy different types of styles of gameplay. it's just preferences and ..again time ..

you can have lots of time to play or be very skllled, but you can't suck and have no time to invest. that is for endgame. but reality is the grind/journey though don't take a brainsurgen is a very important part of all of it. you should have time for both if you chose to play mmo's. if they keep changing this mechanic then they are no longer mmo's.

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I was being sarcastic. People like to claim XI was a hardcore game because things "took a long time."

But must of that time was spent standing in place chatting. Usually waiting for some mob that was easy to kill but had high respawns and low drop rates.

Even leveling wasn't hard, but that's usually the go to example here. You just stood in place and auto attacked. Or casted cure for people with yellow health, or used provoke every 30 seconds.

Real hardcore players play games that require skill, not MMOs. MMOs require only free time and an attention span.

believe it or not there are several threads with 100's of post on this topic

Can we just come together as one collective of nerds and stop this stupid Gangs of New York fighting? GAWD... Vote for Pedro!

Hardcore = People who want an In depth Complex Experience that takes Time, Effort and Skill.

Casual = People who want a game they can pick up and play on a whim.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

Real hardcore players play games that require skill, not MMOs. MMOs require only free time and an attention span.

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Final Fantasy has always been a game of preparation not action. The skill of a Final Fantasy game is in the knowledge of Character development not the fight itself. That is why in every Final Fantasy a fight is either a: Impossible or b: Easy. If it is impossible you were not ready. If it was easy you were. All MMOs fall into this style of game play. A person who knows what they are in for will win. That is why Raids, in every MMO, are only difficult until someone beats them, then they are easy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AmyRae

Not this thread again...

The simplest way is to look at it as a matter of time.

Hardcore players devote a lot of time to the game, and use this extra playtime to their advantage (more class levels, more gil, more endgame gear, more achievements, etc.).

Casual players don't devote a lot of time to the game (because they can't, or don't feel compelled to). Casual players are content with a handful of achievements obtained within their limited playtime.

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This exactly.
Not saying that someone that plays 16 hrs a day can't suck, all I am saying is that more time you have more classes you can level up, therefore more skills you can access. This, in turn, makes you stand out over someone like me that has 2 fighting classes to 50.

ITT Reverberating Idiocy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheFatHousecat

Obv. what is hardcore/casual is objective. A typical depiction is that hardcore players are elitist jerks with no lives who ruin the game with aggressive competition, while casuals are people with jobs who play the game at their own pace and expect things to be handed to them. But that's sort of biased, isn't it? :L

I feel like the best description would be:

Hardcore = players who have the skills to understand the mechanics of and defeat high-level bosses before the majority of the player base. Like Rentahamster said, this can also sometimes mean that these players simply have more playtime than others. While this is somewhat true, I also feel that there are usually enough people per sever who can dedicate large enough amounts of playtime that you'd be able to differentiate between those who play a lot and get things done, and those who play a lot and don't. There are some stellar players who have full-time jobs and families, but are able to complete endgame content before the majority of the server because of these skills.

Being hardcore also means being quick on the uptake of new ideas and strategies, understanding your role within a battle, understanding your job well enough to min/max your character in stats/gear/etc, as well as having the ability to work well with your guild-mates and take constructive criticism where needed.

Casual = This can describe people who simply have so much on their plates, be it work/family/etc, that they're unable to play the game as much as others; putting them at a disadvantage when it comes to job level and gear sets.

'Casual' can also describe players who just aren't concerned with being the best DPS/Tank/Healer/etc. that they can be, and completing endgame content before everyone else. These people play the game at their own pace, and don't feel the need to necessarily excel at playing the game as long as they're having fun.

Then again, a 'casual' can also mean that the player is simply not skilled or fast enough to compete with other, hardcore players. They might not be able to pick up on new strategies as quickly, or might not understand new stat/gear builds in order to min/max their characters. Some of these players might just not have enough experience in gaming or MMOs, and with some guidance can improve, while others are, unfortunately, a lost cause.

I hope I didn't offend anyone with this xD

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+1

This is the best explanation of casual vs hardcore. Anyone who doesn't understand needs to read this. If they still don't understand then I don't think there is any hope for them.

I'm a "hardcore" gamer, I have family, friends, school, used to have a gf. I like time syncs, hard stuff, and everything. Sooo don't say hardcore players = "no life" you know, I hate that term. I do have a life, if I didn't I wouldn't be typing this right now. I also just get on a few times a week as well.

My Definitions:

Hardcore = Burn through content.

Casual = Take their time.

I see them as the following. And I feel some people do not exactly fit into 1 category. I trully belive skill is not a factor, I seen many hardcore 80hr/week players who just fail at everything, and people who play 5hrs a week who are godly when they are online.

Hardcore: Those with alot of play, those who consider this more then just a game. Those who want long term achievements which require alot of work and time to obtain. "Embrace the grind, it is what makes a mmo"

Casual: Those with limited playtime, those who play this game just for the fun of it. Those who feel the work should not be a part of the game, they want instant rewards for successful completion of the task. "Remove the Grind, it is not fun"

For Me I would classify WoW/Rift as Casual mmos, yea there is really challenge things. But one you get the skill and strat down everything is simple to obtain (100% drop rates) and repeatable. So there is really no such thing as a hardcore WoW design. Some full time people in those game are hardcore players time wise though, but the game is not designed for that.

XI (pre-abysea)/EQ/Aion I would classify more as hardcore mmos. The games require you to group up to progress well, they require you to really work at obtaining things (The best thing could take dozens of run to obtain). You had to wait for rare items if you where unsuccessful. (rare spawns). Leveling took years to max out a character (XI). The best gear took either 3-4yrs to obtain or the work of 30-50 people over a 3 month period to get 1 item.

XIV atm is a casual mmo, which is why it is in trouble still. The hardcores from XI are not too happy with it, and the casual are comparing it to mainstream western mmos which are much better at the casual then XIV is (solo player wise XIV is not a good game at all which is a staple for casual western design).

Hmmm. Okay, i try as much as possible to learn new strategies on the Ifrit fight, i tank when i can in darkhold and on NM hunts with my LS day or night, i also ((if you look at my sig)) don't have all my classes to 50, because as a personal choice i decided not to just sit around and beg/wait for PL's...and pick up groups aren't hard to come by...but alot of them make me pull my hair out because alot of the people in them have no sense of group dynamic...((because they proably just got pl'd but w/e i'm not gonna complain about it too much))...or just break up too quick. I craft as much as i can on my crafts i want to get to 50, and do strongholds, and on top of that i even find time to RP since i'm on besaid and that's the reason i chose that server.

I also work 40 hrs. a week, have a girlfriend, bills, 4 dogs, errands and ETC. In fact the only time i'm on these fourms is when i have a break at work, even then most time i'm using my phone to look at youtube strats and whatnot ((i <3 my android phone)). I know team work and i don't want things handed to me easy..hell i do fights with NO materia in my stuff just to see if i can do it. But again i have a life outside the game i pay attention to..so i'm considered casual because i only sit on my days off and if i have no outside things to do play all day? ...Kinda unfair.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kiote

Hardcore = People who want an In depth Complex Experience that takes Time, Effort and Skill.

Casual = People who want a game they can pick up and play on a whim.

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Of course, this... and the following.

Hardcore = valuing the journey (levels and midgame content) to the destination (endgame content).
Casual = can't get their head out of their butt to understand the journey is just as important as the destination.

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Originally Posted by Dragon

Of course, this... and the following.

Hardcore = valuing the journey (levels and midgame content) to the destination (endgame content).
Casual = can't get their head out of their butt to understand the journey is just as important as the destination.

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That's a little bit of a cheap shot.

It wouldn't be so bad if SE designed an actual journey.

Mass killing weak mobs for weeks upon months does not equate a "journey."

Make level a series of quests that requires a team to complete and we're talking. Something like XI's Assault system, but with exp rewards instead of gear. (EDIT: Actually, make it still give points for gear or a "training voucher" that functions like an exp scroll. That way they can cap it, and everyone can get what they want out of it and there's still incentive to go back and repeat the old quests).

I just don't get how people could want to go through that BS system of killing the same mob for 10 levels at a time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

That's a little bit of a cheap shot.

It wouldn't be so bad if SE designed an actual journey.

Mass killing weak mobs for weeks upon months does not equate a "journey."

Make level a series of quests that requires a team to complete and we're talking. Something like XI's Assault system, but with exp rewards instead of gear. (EDIT: Actually, make it still give points for gear or a "training voucher" that functions like an exp scroll. That way they can cap it, and everyone can get what they want out of it and there's still incentive to go back and repeat the old quests).

I just don't get how people could want to go through that BS system of killing the same mob for 10 levels at a time.

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You must put words into people's mouth quite often, you're quite awesome at it. I am well aware that there is no journey in XIV right now, but unlikely for the same reasons you make (as undoubtedly, FFXI was in fact quite the journey pre-abyssea).