New Feast KO achievements screw healers... again

And it's also encouraging people to be more reckless in going for the kill when falling back would be more beneficial to winning the match. This needs to change as it's incentivizing bad behavior in Feast.

What, you don't want to be a cupholder?

I've had a lot of matches lately with 3-4 healers so I just switch to tank or dps. There's tons of matches to play. I'm gonna get both. :)

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Originally Posted by axemtitanium

And it's also encouraging people to be more reckless in going for the kill when falling back would be more beneficial to winning the match. This needs to change as it's incentivizing bad behavior in Feast.

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KO (red) and Assists (blue). I've seen healers get several assists.

Also, if you only play healer in PvP; you can get the seal rock commander set (which has both INT and MND); wear INT accessories and swap your MND to INT to dish out some heavy DPS.

/s

Just bring back cleric stance!

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Originally Posted by Slib

Just bring back cleric stance!

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I'd prefer healers to actually heal than spamming Stone III when their teammates are in red zone.

Honestly, I don't understand what's wrong with just switching to dps and killing some people. There are many jobs in the game, why play only one all your life? Isn't being one trick pony is extremelly boring? If you don't like it then you are not entitled to rewards, it's simple as that.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

I'd prefer healers to actually heal than spamming Stone III when their teammates are in red zone.

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And you'd probably also prefer having some healers on the team "at all".

I mean, I'm all for turning healers into DPS, but considering most of the time in 4vs4 you're waiting on healers to queue and frequently in 8vs8 people are mutedly praying for someone to switch to healer, it seems a tad, uh...counterintuitive to incentivize healers to switch to DPS.

I'm never going to complain about extra achievements - anything is better than nothing and it gives some kind of thing to work towards. I think the main problem with this one is the number of assists and kills you need to get the highest one are the same. If you're a dps unless you're amazing and always get the kill, you're probably going to get around the same number of kills and assists per game, so the most efficient way to get both achievements is just go DPS.

You get way more assists on healer, like a crazy amount, but what's the point if you could just go dps and get both achievements at the same time? I think they should bump the number of assists you need to 4-5x the current number (so 20-25k instead of 5k for the max) and then people would actually go healer and it'd be more in line with the kill achievements. I had an 8v8 match yesterday that lasted about 80 seconds and i got 12 assists on healer just from that.

How does the system calculate an assist anyway?

5k assist? I thought it was just 500 assist for the minion.

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Originally Posted by Stormfur

How does the system calculate an assist anyway?

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Pretty sure as long as you:
Heal the people that attacked the kill (or heal the person that got the kill)
Damaged the kill at all (ie slows, aetheric burst)

I'm basing this off of when me and my pals group together for frontlines and get a ton of kills, my WHM friend who almost always has medica ii up gets like 57 assists by the end of the match.

I agree with the OP, but not for the reasons mentioned.

Healing in PvP is already unrewarding and 4s healing is the most challenging healing in the game. I'm not even saying there should be a unique item like the tank mounts in PvE, but there needs to be at least some motivation to play healer in PvP - instead we're actually being penalized for it by being completely unable to get a collectable item.

Oh yay, you mean we can get the blue puppy a dozen or so matches earlier than a tank or DPS? woo hoo.

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Originally Posted by Llus

KO (red) and Assists (blue). I've seen healers get several assists.

Also, if you only play healer in PvP; you can get the seal rock commander set (which has both INT and MND); wear INT accessories and swap your MND to INT to dish out some heavy DPS.

/s

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I'm confused. How does one swap MND to INT in PVP? The Seal Rock set is great but unfortunately it's rare to get it to pop nowadays or the full set would be mine, oh yes, mine. o.0

it's a real screw, because once you have done with the first minion, you switch dps, and what about healer if nobody want to heal ? to get kills.

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Originally Posted by Culfinrandir

I'm confused. How does one swap MND to INT in PVP? The Seal Rock set is great but unfortunately it's rare to get it to pop nowadays or the full set would be mine, oh yes, mine. o.0

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The Keeper's Hymn, sold at your GC allows you to reset the stats you spent. I really wouldn't suggest doing that unless you run a premade though. Your healing potency drops to the floor and your DPS still isn't max because your weapon would have MND vs INT. Cost is 250 seals, but if you do run like that with a premade of killing healers be sure to stock up so you can switch back before you run PvE stuff.

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Originally Posted by Llus

The Keeper's Hymn, sold at your GC allows you to reset the stats you spent. I really wouldn't suggest doing that unless you run a premade though. Your healing potency drops to the floor and your DPS still isn't max because your weapon would have MND vs INT. Cost is 250 seals, but if you do run like that with a premade of killing healers be sure to stock up so you can switch back before you run PvE stuff.

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Ah, I see. I thought you meant swapping MND to INT on the fly the way Cleric Stance does (or did in PVP). I agree, in premades you go all out to ensure stats are the best.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

And you'd probably also prefer having some healers on the team "at all".

I mean, I'm all for turning healers into DPS, but considering most of the time in 4vs4 you're waiting on healers to queue and frequently in 8vs8 people are mutedly praying for someone to switch to healer, it seems a tad, uh...counterintuitive to incentivize healers to switch to DPS.

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They should just make healing easier in PvP. It's very offputting for a new healer to get destroyed in seconds. Make them take less damage, get less interruptions, shorter CC and maybe less MP expensive spells and we'll see more healers queing. Meaning faster ques for other roles too. It's a win win situation.

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Originally Posted by Slib

Just bring back cleric stance!

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Only if it couldn't be toggled off at all in PVP areas.

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

I agree with the OP, but not for the reasons mentioned.

Healing in PvP is already unrewarding and 4s healing is the most challenging healing in the game. I'm not even saying there should be a unique item like the tank mounts in PvE, but there needs to be at least some motivation to play healer in PvP - instead we're actually being penalized for it by being completely unable to get a collectable item.

Oh yay, you mean we can get the blue puppy a dozen or so matches earlier than a tank or DPS? woo hoo.

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^
stop releasing achievements that leaves out a class!!!!!

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

They should just make healing easier in PvP. It's very offputting for a new healer to get destroyed in seconds. Make them take less damage, get less interruptions, shorter CC and maybe less MP expensive spells and we'll see more healers queing. Meaning faster ques for other roles too. It's a win win situation.

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There is a base dilemma: Would SE base job adjustment to make it newcomers-friendly or to make it competitive at higher level?

Because with those buff try to kill a good high tier Healer, the meta will switch on "let's wait for Culling time" and then LB and other bursts will become almost unhealable.
It will be frustrating in my opinion :/

Btw I'm mostly HAPPY because they added an Assist Achievement instead of angry because healers won't get it.

And also if you are interested in achievements, how would you get the Melee, Ranged and Tank ones?
If you will get them too, so you will have your kill achievement o.O

Mostly to be balanced I would "like" and Assist achievement for FL too.

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Originally Posted by Geologo

Btw I'm mostly HAPPY because they added an Assist Achievement instead of angry because healers won't get it.

And also if you are interested in achievements, how would you get the Melee, Ranged and Tank ones?
If you will get them too, so you will have your kill achievement o.O

Mostly to be balanced I would "like" and Assist achievement for FL too.

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There are a million of PvP achievements in WoW. But now that I checked them I see how much undeveloped FFXIV is in this direction. Why there's still no 20 kills streak trophy in Frontlines? Or 30 kills in a single match? Or win a FL match with a score of 1,600 to 0? Or win 10 ranked Feast matches in a row?
There's even 'Emote /Hug on a dead enemy before they release their corpse.' achievement, lmao.
All we have is ultra generic 'win X times' or 'participate X times' with no any skill involved whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

It's very offputting for a new healer to get destroyed in seconds.

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Well, everyone but tanks can get destroyed in seconds, so the logical consequence would then be to make everyone take less damage so that not only new healers, but every new player regardless of role won't get put off by that! More players overall -> Win, Win, Win!

Genius idea! I suggest a 80% damage reduction flat and removal of culling time, limit break and rotational abilities of tanks and DPS.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

There are a million of PvP achievements in WoW.

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They also got that for dungeons:
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Dungeo...s_achievements

Most of our dungeons only have the "Mapping the realm" achievement to it - which is damn near impossible to miss with the corridor design. Raids get a whooping 3 clear achievements, whee! WoW in general is far more developed - In no small part because for years it had, like...multiple times the playerbase FFXIV has. Probably still does.

I do miss the 1.0 achievements. They were a little more unique.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

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Besides what Zojha said it also comes down to their design philosophy. Blizzard has always had this sense of humor and levity in everything they do. So they came up with some crazy ways to do things or beat certain bosses. It's an extra layer of flavor and challenge for players to work on while running the same content.

I don't think SE would ever do something like that in pve or pvp because they want players focused on the content and completing it. A shame to cause some of them were really fun, like when I got my Ironman achievement for capturing all three flags in warsong gulch without dying? It felt great.

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

It's an extra layer of flavor and challenge for players to work on while running the same content.

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...and a comparatively cheap way to add replayability to the content thanks to it. Which is why I am personally baffled they aren't abusing the heck out of it - We're not swimming in content after all. I mean, I can see why they don't want to do certain things in duty finder pugs, as many of the achievements rely on "suboptimal play" or risks (like that comeback achievement in arathi), but why not as option for full premades?

I'd start out with adding one to Zurvan EX: Beat Zurvan without skipping Soar.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

I'd start out with adding one to Zurvan EX: Beat Zurvan without skipping Soar.

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Defeat Sophia multiple times on Extreme difficulty each time killing her adds in every possible combination (123, 132, 213, 231, 321, 312).

Defeat Sephirot on Extreme mode while also having each player in the party get killed by his fist slam at least once.

During the battle against Alexander Prime, do the /pray emote when he grows his wings.

Win a Diamon match as DRK :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Well, everyone but tanks can get destroyed in seconds, so the logical consequence would then be to make everyone take less damage so that not only new healers, but every new player regardless of role won't get put off by that! More players overall -> Win, Win, Win!

Genius idea! I suggest a 80% damage reduction flat and removal of culling time, limit break and rotational abilities of tanks and DPS.

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Gross exaggeration is totally uncalled for. Only healers are lacking in PvP ques and they should be stimulated to que more. More players overall will not make it any faster if there's still the same low percentage of healers every other role is waiting for. And if you ask them, why they don't que more, they'll answer because it's hard to heal in PvP, and these measures will help with it.

Werent the minions exclusive for those that win the seasons only?

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Originally Posted by Mirch

Werent the minions exclusive for those that win the seasons only?

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They were initially, but as many minions are tied to expensive merchandise, and minion collectors will likely stop bothering with it if permanently missed just one in their collection, SE decided to provide alternative means to obtain it (300 kills and assists). SE is a business company first and foremost, and that was a pure business decision. I guess there aren't as much mount collectors as minion collectors because I don't see them petitioning or protesting much.

I don't know what it's called, but maybe we can get an achievement for those pinch heals where you snatch someone from the jaws of death at the very last second (healing out of critical HP)? The game must be able to track them since it plays a sound when it happens, and it would be nice to have some reward for healing which naturally accumulates through playing correctly. Having rewards which benefit each role make it more likely people will be willing to switch jobs to balance a team instead of trying to minmax for stealing killing blows on certain jobs.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

There are a million of PvP achievements in WoW.[...]

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Not all the games have to be the same game,
but I agree with I would like to see more achievement unrelated to the completion of the content,
like the 1.0 achievement "Clear the Aurum Vale without consuming a single morbol fruit or vine." that will make you do something in a not-as-intended way.

but as Khalithar said SE is more focused on making all the people do their best to complete a content.
For example, guess what happens when in DF 2 players decide to not eat Morbol fruits during AV because they want that achievment, regardless of the rest of the party.

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Originally Posted by Serilda

I don't know what it's called, but maybe we can get an achievement for those pinch heals where you snatch someone from the jaws of death at the very last second (healing out of critical HP)? [...]

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This could be another example of people that wait to pop instant heals when you are at 10% just to get an achievement.

I would like to see them too, but I can also understand why they don't do it.
Also, if people think that just going full taliban in the midst of the opponent party will make you get more kills, they will soon see how long will it take xD

I always do Feast as WHM, but this time I switched to SMN just to get the 300 kill and assist achievement.

I've gotta admit that I just went for the kills :P it was 8v8 anyways.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

Gross exaggeration is totally uncalled for.

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Oh no, you were totally right!

I just took your logic to the next level. See, if people are put off by PvP because they're being destroyed, then we just need to remove death from PvP to make it popular. And when nobody is dying anymore, you don't need healers anymore either, so you can remove the role restriction as well!

It's just plain brilliant! You're a genius.

(In reality, I'm just being sarcastic because you suggest to make a broken role that's being focused for being broken even more broken to combat the frustration from being focused, so I cannot take you serious.)

How are healers broken? New healers are bursted in 2 seconds then their team dies and they lose. Then they don't que again making ques long for everyone. The best healers still die 4-5 times per match. What exactly makes them broken?