3.55 PVP Balancing.

Monk:
Fists of Earth defensive boost reduced to 5% in PVP areas.


SE Where's the rest of the balancing?

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...cd375129aa498e

I believe that is it...wwwww

Though I do find it funny that they know players speed hack, so they'll give us a legit one anyways..;Dwww

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Originally Posted by Natashio

I believe that is it...wwwww

Though I do find it funny that they know players speed hack, so they'll give us a legit one anyways..;Dwww

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Lmao right. SE Mentality: "Well if ya can't beat 'em..."

We have almost a month of preseason, I think some other changes will land before the new season will start.
What kind of jobs balancing would you like to see?

To be 100% honest. I feel the burst for Machinist needs to be re-evaluated. I won't go into how, because I don't really want a debate over it. Just my opinion.

Scholar needs some help in the CC department.

White Mage could do with a little bit of a readjusting.

Dark Knight could do with some adjustment as far as damage output.

MCH, MNK, WAR need to be nerfed a bit. Broken jobs at the moment.
NIN, SMN and SCH need to be buffed a bit. Underperforming jobs at the moment.
DRK needs to be massively buffed to be taken seriously. A waste of party slot at the moment.
BLM is tricky to balance, from one side Fire IV spam is a massive burst but if you'll not let him cast he's completelly harmless.

As one who has mained Ninja for three seasons i can say we need some kind of buff in the survivalbilty department. Monk got fist of earth, better feather foot , Second wind and Mantra, Dragoon got mail armor, more hp strong keen flurry and better blood for blood.
Maybe make so you get like 10% dmg reduction for 10 seconds after you use schucuchi or something.
Or make smoke screen give evasion or something for 15 sec and make it so you can use it on yourself.
I totally agree on between the eyes for machinist ive seen that shit crit for 7k+ >.<

Please note that we are in preseason until 3.56 and more adjustments could be coming in 2.55b.

The Wolf's Heart Kits will be changing the meta and they can't make to many adjustments with out seeing how the meta is changed.

Outside of our burst, we MCH don't have much else. We're glass cannons with no defensive anything and only one self heal compared to the other physical dps' two. Being able to deal high burst damage makes up for our defensive deficiencies.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Outside of our burst, we MCH don't have much else. We're glass cannons with no defensive anything and only one self heal compared to the other physical dps' two. Being able to deal high burst damage makes up for our defensive deficiencies.

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MCH need adjustments their burst is not only way to strong also they have enough CC to protect themself/party members.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

WAR need to be nerfed a bit. Broken jobs at the moment.

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Where does WAR needs a nerf? Their burst easily counterable.

Yes i dont say they should nerf machnist to harshly but compared to summoner burst it's just way to good being able to 1-2 shot ppl alone is just broken.
Maybe tune down the potency on Between the eyes abit would help, also ranged dps always picks the defence buff in start or at least they should i dont have that luxury as Ninja sadly.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Outside of our burst, we MCH don't have much else. We're glass cannons with no defensive anything and only one self heal compared to the other physical dps' two. Being able to deal high burst damage makes up for our defensive deficiencies.

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One self heal doesn't hold water in front lines where you can use potions. Their dps is honestly too high and the setup to achieve it is laughably easy. Additionally, hypercharge is incredibly useful.

I think they should buff the SMN because SMN doesn't have any special pvp defense utilities for them. Brd/Mch has recuperated that allow them to get HP back but both blm/smn have nothing to get HP back. Brd/MCH also has second wind which is their regular abilities that they can use in pvp as well.

BLM/SMN has Equanimity but I feel like this ability is useless cause we don't get interrupt while casting that much. I really hope that SE can buff up the caster dps pvp abilities more.

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

Where does WAR needs a nerf? Their burst easily counterable.

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4.2k Fell Cleaves crits twice in a row say hi.
Even some dps dont have such burst.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

4.2k Fell Cleaves crits twice in a row say hi.
Even some dps dont have such burst.

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5700-6k crit cleaves say hi and I still dont think it needs a nerf since the burst is very obvious and can be countered pretty well besides that fell cleaves hit like a wet noodle nerfing it even more would be lul

In a vacuum, MCH's burst can be easily countered too, just like anything else. The goal is to create and exploit situations where it can't be.

I don't think warrior is overpowered exactly, but it probably is too out of line with the other jobs filling the tank role in its burst damage dealing capability. Could stand to have damage toned down a bit in exchange for more utility.

DRK and NIN need buffs more than anything needs nerfing

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

MCH need adjustments their burst is not only way to strong also they have enough CC to protect themself/party members.

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I consider that a saving grace for the deficiencies we have. Also let's talk about BRD's instant 100-0 burst before we shine a spotlight on MCH, lol. In fairness, both can be countered if you see it coming, but good BRDs/MCHs can still catch someone by surprise. There's also the it crit/didn't crit part of the MCH burst that's a nice little dice roll when you do it.

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Originally Posted by RedHerb

One self heal doesn't hold water in front lines where you can use potions. Their dps is honestly too high and the setup to achieve it is laughably easy. Additionally, hypercharge is incredibly useful.

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Lol, trust me, potions don't do much either when you've got the enemy team in your ass like a thong. And yeah, Hypercharge is great, but if a MCH is using it, you can (try to) get out of range and wait it out.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

I consider that a saving grace for the deficiencies we have. Also let's talk about BRD's instant 100-0 burst before we shine a spotlight on MCH, lol. In fairness, both can be countered if you see it coming, but good BRDs/MCHs can still catch someone by surprise. There's also the it crit/didn't crit part of the MCH burst that's a nice little dice roll when you do it.

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At the highest level of play mch and brd aren't even comparable. Mch had a 100-0 combo, plus enough cc that it is like playing against a second paladin. It is leaps and bounds ahead of other ranged DPS since blm has been nerfed. Mch is also much harder to counter because it is much better at protecting itself, additionally it's burst window is 20s without cast time abilities where bards is 10s and requires a casted ability.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

DRK needs to be massively buffed to be taken seriously. A waste of party slot at the moment.

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Some could argue Warrior needs to be toned down as opposed to DRK needing a buff.

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Originally Posted by BloodRubyXII

Some could argue Warrior needs to be toned down as opposed to DRK needing a buff.

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PLD and WAR are way closer to each other than DRK is to either.

The problem with the pvp balance is some job have big burst potential.
like War, Mch, Mnk ect because it's how some job is designed for pve.
Nobody like to be OS in pvp, and ask a nerf for some job.
But you can't nerf jobs just by reducing potency of some skill because otherwise you reduce also damage outside of the burst window.
i hope SE will think PVE and PVP in the same time when they will redesign job for 4.0

More than nerf/buff I would like to see a rework of some skills.
For example if they reduce the potency of Between the Eyes, I hope they will give it a shorter cooldown too.
Giving to Shadow Flare a slow MP regeneration effect for your party member.

Those are just examples, my hope is to see skill changes, because no one likes to see his job nerfed.

As a dark reaching top 100 two things I think would be benefical. Make represial a 30 second cool down in the feast, not requiring a parry. This would add slightly more utility and make you question if to attack focus target or to play supportive by reducing a targets damage by 10%. Secondly reduce the cooldown of carve and spit to 30-45sec from 1 minute, other than that I don't think were too bad.

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

5700-6k crit cleaves say hi and I still dont think it needs a nerf since the burst is very obvious and can be countered pretty well besides that fell cleaves hit like a wet noodle nerfing it even more would be lul

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How exactly do you counter it If I burst the same target with other dps and kill it? Oops, you didnt countered it.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

How exactly do you counter it If I burst the same target with other dps and kill it? Oops, you didnt countered it.

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Shield bash in between the cleaves throws a warrior back hard, and since it is a tank, stun dr is usually up. Even Monk stun works to give a healer enough time.

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Originally Posted by TiramisuMacaron

Shield bash in between the cleaves throws a warrior back hard, and since it is a tank, stun dr is usually up. Even Monk stun works to give a healer enough time.

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I almost never get stunned unless bursted. Probably because there are no good paladins left in solo. And a good paladin is even better warrior.
There is I think only 1 paladin in Chaos' Top 100 and 2 DRKs. The rest are warriors because obviously it's the best tank for solo.
Burst and kills almost always overweight party protection.

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Originally Posted by Enlial

In a vacuum, MCH's burst can be easily countered too, just like anything else. The goal is to create and exploit situations where it can't be.

I don't think warrior is overpowered exactly, but it probably is too out of line with the other jobs filling the tank role in its burst damage dealing capability. Could stand to have damage toned down a bit in exchange for more utility.

DRK and NIN need buffs more than anything needs nerfing

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WARs don't need a nerf. We trade high damage for very low utility. Brutal swing every 20s with only a 3s stun with HUGE DR is almost pointless in feast. Mythril tempest, even with a 3s stun and knock-back tends to be an emergency-only tool (again another HUGE DR stun). The only real useful CC skills a war has is storm's path for damage reduction and holmgang every 180s (and if burned late in the game can easily lead to a loss if you're hit by mele LB and don't have it up)

WAR burst is easily managed too:
You see berserk? WHM: fluid-aura, sleep, PLD: stun lock, AST: stella, blizzard 2, sprint, BLM: sleep, MNK: axe kick, DRK: carnal chill &/or unleash,
Did you get holmganged? Do you have purify? Purify, sprint laugh. No purify? Attune. No attune, that's where your own team needs to help you; too bad you can't ask for that help in feast though.

I'd rather see PLD's stun get nerfed, but PLD stun lock, silence and pacification really what makes that role shine in PvP. They're the king of CC and party support where WARs make up for lackluster DPS while leaving their healers out to dry. DRK definitely needs some help; but they've already gotten a HUGE boost to their CC toolkit that they sit right between PLD and WAR for CC & burst damage. Their burst damage, while easily hitting 850 potency in a 4s window; lacks the bonus that WAR's 1000 potency burst gets from maim, storm's eye and berserk. I think the toolkit is there, but exceptional DRKs are going to be hard to find and I think it will take an exceptional player to make DRK shine - PLD and WAR are both easy to play in feast, while DRK's AoE bind and heavy are easy mode for FL.

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Originally Posted by kirby200

As a dark reaching top 100 two things I think would be benefical. Make represial a 30 second cool down in the feast, not requiring a parry. This would add slightly more utility and make you question if to attack focus target or to play supportive by reducing a targets damage by 10%. Secondly reduce the cooldown of carve and spit to 30-45sec from 1 minute, other than that I don't think were too bad.

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I think these two would really improve DRK for both feast and frontlines. Still, playing DRK to a high level is going to be MUCH harder than PLD or WAR since they sit right between the bursty mode tank and party protection mode tank. Like you said, the toolkit is just about there and with a few tweaks I could see DRKs played at a very high level make top 100 much more often.

What does DR mean.... <.<

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

What does DR mean.... <.<

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Diminishing returns. Most CC in the game will be reduced in duration if you use it multiple times on the same target, and the DR won't reset until a minute passed after the first application of that certain type of CC.

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Originally Posted by Praesul

...the DR won't reset until a minute passed after the ***last*** application of that certain type of CC.

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Fixed. 10char

Diminishing returns and their duration explained:
1st stun: 4 sec duration. 50 sec later stun: 2 sec duration. 50 sec later stun: 1 sec duration. 50 sec later stun: stun resisted. 10 sec later stun: 4 sec duration.
Stunlocking in a row: 4 sec - 2 sec - 1 sec. 30 sec later: stun resisted. 30 more sec later: 4-2-1 again.
Silence doesnt have diminishing returns.

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Originally Posted by Llus

WARs don't need a nerf. W

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Thanks for a great write up Llus.

While I certainly wouldn't want to see BTE nerfed, I can agree it'd be fair if the potency is lowered to lower the cooldown too. Same for any other PvP skills with high potency/application but long CDs.

A random hint about something to fix in my opinion, Misty Veil.

It is not a priority but, 180 sec cooldown for that effect I think it's all way too much, I like how it works but in a match if you will be able to use it at best 2-3 times,
you can't compare it to Night Wing, Sacred Prism (180 sec too) or a Testudo(150 sec).

For a job that lack of CC, that could be a good one if you can use it for example to "nerf" the ranged burst.
In my opinion it should be lined up with Barrage / Between the Eyes cooldown (90 sec).

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Originally Posted by Geologo

More than nerf/buff I would like to see a rework of some skills.
For example if they reduce the potency of Between the Eyes, I hope they will give it a shorter cooldown too.Giving to Shadow Flare a slow MP regeneration effect for your party member.

Those are just examples, my hope is to see skill changes, because no one likes to see his job nerfed.

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I get how in between the eyes can be too strong but what does MCH do outside that?

nothing.

Same with brd, what happens when barrage is on cooldown? Outside barrage and spamming skills outside global cool down, it can be healed over easily.

Problem in PvP is generally this:
WHM has too high constant healing compared to the other 2
SCH has no constant healing power, it is only a burst healer. I am useless without aether stacks.
SCH has no CC
PLD is too powerful as far as stun spam ability
MCH,BRD, SMN, BLM, have no defense, they are very easy to pick off when they are in the wrong spot in the wrong time.
The tanks seem to live though too much compared to everyone else.
DPS seem too useless outside burst, though mnk and drg seems to be higher constant damage then others.

I believe mch has a mini burst every 90s and full burst every 180s and a slew of cc, mp regen, bard got full burst, little cc, and mp regen. I think bards need a boost to match up to mch. Sch I agreed needs help to keep up with the other 2 healers.

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

Where does WAR needs a nerf? Their burst easily counterable.

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Lot of people still cant counter it. They dont purify, they dont sleep and they dont root. So its the Warrios Fault cause op.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

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You almost listed all the jobs x)

BtwTanks HAVE to last longer compared to other job, the Medals meta was added to give them a reliable "work" in a pvp party, also even if they have an higher damage reduction buff compared to other jobs, with 4 stack once they ended their cooldowns they are anyway taking far more damage, a bed tank will melt as good as a DRG.

I can agree with the lack of constant healing power on SCH, but compared to WHM it has a lot more instant healing skills, and I think as SCH that not a lot of people are using his pet at its best (me too), an Embrace is a little stronger than a Regene and it "tick" almost as a Regene on just 1 target.

A solution could be making Embrace instant, so you won't be penalized because you have to place it again and again during a match, but idk if this will instead make it OP or it won't change almost anything for skilled players who actually know how to place their pet.
To me a big issue with SCH is his MP management Adloquioum has a good potency but Aetherflow will give you MP just for another 2-3 Adlo :/

MCH in my opinion can't be putted in the same category of BRD and SMN for "no defense", MCH and BLM has a plenty of CC to slow/stop enemies.

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Originally Posted by Geologo

You almost listed all the jobs x)

BtwTanks HAVE to last longer compared to other job, the Medals meta was added to give them a reliable "work" in a pvp party, also even if they have an higher damage reduction buff compared to other jobs, with 4 stack once they ended their cooldowns they are anyway taking far more damage, a bed tank will melt as good as a DRG.
I can agree with the lack of constant healing power on SCH, but compared to WHM it has a lot more instant healing skills, and I think as SCH that not a lot of people are using his pet at its best (me too), an Embrace is a little stronger than a Regene and it "tick" almost as a Regene on just 1 target.

A solution could be making Embrace instant, so you won't be penalized because you have to place it again and again during a match, but idk if this will instead make it OP or it won't change almost anything for skilled players who actually know how to place their pet.
To me a big issue with SCH is his MP management Adloquioum has a good potency but Aetherflow will give you MP just for another 2-3 Adlo :/

MCH in my opinion can't be putted in the same category of BRD and SMN for "no defense", MCH and BLM has a plenty of CC to slow/stop enemies.

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I know tanks have to, but they seem to last a bit TOO long, as in they are able take too much damage making them easy to keep them healed, at least when you compare how fast everyone else goes down.

MP is rarely an issue in pvp, it is simply needing stacks to heal burst. Since PvP is so dependent on bursting, no stacks = useless. The other day I had a very experienced PvE person, all 3 tanks 270, mch 270 and drg 262, all jobs 60 and yet did not have enough know how as a PvP WHM to get off a mount when being attacked. I had to let this person die because they did nothing to save themselves while I needed the last few stacks to save myself. I know iti s an extreme example since doing that he deserves to die and hopefully learned better for next time, but even with that, I do not like thinking, oh i need let this person to die because of my limited stacks and my casting heals does not do enough but if i was a whm, would lived a lot longer (for worst) then I was able pull off as SCH.

MP problems is a low to a non issue. It is just the stuff that does cost mp does not do enough. Only time I have mp problems if I am in feast in deadlocks, lasts the full length of the match, and I never die. Even then just toss me a manasong/ report?

instant cast and casting does not make much difference in the LONG run. It is just a bailout in the short run to stop bursts, I/E > Physick> Lustrate, cure II > tera, etc. Plus there is always a swiftcast to back that up. You still have a GCD to deal with. My suggestion would be simply boost Physick, Adloquium, succor heal potency while "nerfing" the shield effect to compensate (stronger heals means stronger shields)

OR!

nerfing all healing, give a lower potency balance, while lowering DPS BURST! constant damage could be buffed a bit as well in this case.

Maybe in 4v4 you have a point, but if those classes are not careful in frontlines, and have to be more so then any other job, they can be easily picked off. My friend is very good at spotting people that can be picked off like that. I had a brd that was making themself an easy target 8v8 and because of it, i couldn't even heal them with Lustrate. btw, .. in case you you did not know, instant heals are not instant, they take a bit of time to process but that is likely due to the severs being slow. Those CC are not going to save you if you stop moving one or two people. Also AGAIN!!! because of the slow servers, it is possible to die before those CC take effect.

Speaking of slow servers, either speed up the processing speeds the servers can do or NERF MELEE LB! stop allowing me to get melee lbed from a mile away.

In the end PvP in FFXIV is too much burst, it is really a mess as a collective. Balance is a complete mess and horrible.

Let's propose some real balancing while we are at it. And yes, I understand some people will be unhappy if they are playing these jobs. But I was maining SMN in PvP for more than 2 years and after the nerfs I was forced to switch it to jobs I don't enjoy as much but which still give me better results than nerfed summoner. I see no reason why there can't be more balancing to make things fair.

WAR: Fell Cleave 500->350 potency. Burst is way to strong, even stronger than SMNs which is supposed to be a proper dps.
MCH: Between the Eyes 150->120, Gass Round 200->150. A completelly broken job with broken and long burst.
BLM: Fire IV: 280->220, Fire III 240->200, Firestarter proc damage halved. Should also have distance penalty like physical ranged dps.
SMN: not a lot of successful SMNs left after nerfs. Give back full Painflare and Deathflare potencies, give dots 1 or 2 more ticks duration.
PLD: Cover should protect against spells, Hallowed Ground should be instant.
WHM: Sacred Prism is way too OP, its like half minute long tank LB. Make it shorter but reduce spells damage too.
NIN: Increase Shade Shift to 40% HP and make it absorb magic damage too (notice how the PvP balance lacks magic defence yet?)
SCH: Reduce Adloquium MP cost.
DRK: Make Carnal Chill AOE effect with longer duration.
MNK: I guess I'll ignore it because I'll get a lot of hate mail.