Cap Crit or Det for Monk + Acc cap?

Have played some PvP now, and bought some PvP gear pieces and made a gear set that consist of only Crit+Det.

But i have read on forums that there is an accuracy cap that i need to hit, some say one accessory is enough and some say 2, but i couldn't find any who have tested this. So is there anyone who have tested if it is enough with one that gives me 378 acc, or do i need two so i get 402 acc?

I can't find out if Crit is better than Det either, i assume so but would like confirmation. If i need 2 accessories with Acc, should those have Crit or Det in them?

Accuracy cap for melees are like 420-440 and crit>det>ss

oh, so i need 3 accessories with acc on? D:

You can customize i240 relic weapon for 56 accuracy, 75 crits (56 cap), 56 ss and 53 determination. That will cap these stats for a weapon and will require only one extra accuracy accessory.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

You can customize i240 relic weapon for 56 accuracy, 75 crits (56 cap), 56 ss and 53 determination. That will cap these stats for a weapon and will require only one extra accuracy accessory.

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building relic around pvp is pretty bad idea I rather use 2 acc accessories

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

building relic around pvp is pretty bad idea I rather use 2 acc accessories

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Only if you are that hardcore about being on top of FFlogs, then yolo. Even then Savage weapon would be better for that o_O

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

building relic around pvp is pretty bad idea I rather use 2 acc accessories

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Depends on what content you tend to engage in :P

If you're PvPing more often than not, it's a good idea to build it around PvP. If you're only doing a frontline roulette a week and maybe an 8vs8 every other evening...no point. It's a simple priorization issue which type of content you'd rather have ideal stats in.

More often than not, the custom stats of a PvP relic and a PvE relic would be identical anyway, because almost every melee character is going to cap Crit/Det to get the most bang for their buck. All other stat caps, including accuracy, can be met in both content without much need of any gear tweaking. Most of the gear carries more accuracy than is necessary, so you'd have to go pretty far out of your way to fall below the required minimum.

I'm not so sure about casters, though. For the most part, I'd imagine it's a similar situation, but I've seen the occasional healer run dry on Mp, so maybe not.

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Originally Posted by Februs

More often than not, the custom stats of a PvP relic and a PvE relic would be identical anyway, because almost every melee character is going to cap Crit/Det

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For a PvP relic you would cap all the stats at their i150 cap, meaning you would have 56 crit, 56 skspd, 53 det, and 56 accuracy or w/e the cap is, throw anything left into parry. Obviously this wouldn't be the optimal distribution for PvE but yeah, the difference between a PvE relic and a PvP relic is quite large.

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Originally Posted by Bartleby

For a PvP relic you would cap all the stats at their i150 cap, meaning you would have 56 crit, 56 skspd, 53 det, and 56 accuracy or w/e the cap is, throw anything left into parry. Obviously this wouldn't be the optimal distribution for PvE but yeah, the difference between a PvE relic and a PvP relic is quite large.

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The problem with customizing in that way is that certain stat caps are redundant. You do not need to hit the stat caps for accuracy and parry to fully utilize them while sync'd at 150. You only need to hit the minimum stat requirement for those stats to be useful, so stacking any additional points beyond that requirement is a waste. That's the same in PvE as it is in PvP. Parry also has the double negative of being utterly useless in PvP, so there'd be no point in stacking any of it at all, regardless of the caps.

There's a difference between optimizing and capping. No matter what you're running, the idea isn't just to hit the stat caps for all stats. The idea is to maximize the stats you need and can use, and minimize the stats you don't. In that regard, it's better to build your relic exactly the same as you would for PvE so that it can duel purpose in both content, rather than build it with stats that are useless and unnecessary even when sync'd.

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Originally Posted by Februs

The problem with customizing in that way is that certain stat caps are redundant. You do not need to hit the stat caps for accuracy and parry to fully utilize them while sync'd at 150.

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Given the choice between a weapon in i150 Feast where you have +50 crit/det and a weapon with +50 crit/det/skill speed/accuracy/+20 parry which one is better? The extra accuracy alone allows you to run 2 less Accuracy accessories effectively giving you an extra +50 crit (or det). The +50 skill speed is cool, not huge, but certainly helps with slightly faster GCDs and better DoT ticks. While Parry is more or less a "bad" stat, if you're going to optimize for i150 PvP and you've already capped the other skills, you may as well put whats left in there. Parries have made the difference in games, just this weekend I won because I lived with 2 HP in the last 30 seconds of the game. Popping Keen Flurry (and hence parrying) very well might've been the deciding factor in said game.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Depends on what content you tend to engage in :P

If you're PvPing more often than not, it's a good idea to build it around PvP. If you're only doing a frontline roulette a week and maybe an 8vs8 every other evening...no point. It's a simple priorization issue which type of content you'd rather have ideal stats in.

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Hmm not really even if u use 2 accessories with accuracy you can hit the stat cap of your most important stats in pvp so its a waste even if you mainly pvp. There is no need to build relic around pvp you are far better off with using a relic in PvE. So yeah imo its a bad idea why would u grind for a relic that is a decent weapon in PvE just to ruin it for pvp purposes if you could just do a PvP Gear Set that allows u to hit the cap of the stats u want without a actual relic. My monk set is capped on stats + has enough accuracy without any relic. Sure you can add parry to it to max. that but pls parry is bad anyways.

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

Hmm not really even if u use 2 accessories with accuracy you can hit the stat cap of your most important stats in pvp so its a waste even if you mainly pvp.

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Well first of all, if you put stats into Accuracy on your weapon, that means you don't need accuracy accessories; ergo, you can have more crit/det on your accessories.

But honestly, I don't know how you can argue that it's wasted on PvP when you compare it to PvE... if you raid you get a better weapon much faster, raiders got i260+ weapons weeks ago, heck even Sophia weapons which are really easy to get were out for over a month before relic was i260. And if you don't raid... then what's the point of optimizing it for PvE? You get an i260 weapon just for doing A12 once a week and there's no point in wasting so much time to make a weapon that you only use for Expert Roulettes (not to mention that an i260 relic with PvP stats on it is STILL much better than i240/most i255 weapons simply because of its weapon damage).

IMO a PvP distribution is the only real value relics have. No other weapon lets you maximize your substats in 4 different categories.

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Originally Posted by Bartleby

Well first of all, if you put stats into Accuracy on your weapon, that means you don't need accuracy accessories; ergo, you can have more crit/det on your accessories.

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This tells me that you didnt understood my previous post lol. Your "more crit det" is useless since I can hit the cap of crit det+accuracy without relic.

Relics are the best weapon for non raiders and saves u 1k tomestones. Also it will surpass some raid weapons later on in a game with multiple classes on1 char it makes no sense to waste your time on a relic and then dont even use it properly. You can easily build BiS for pvp that is as good as ur gear set with relic just the one without relic is much less effort.

I never even thought about this.

So what are the optimal stats for the anima weapon to max crit, det and accuracy?

I was thinking about getting an eikon ring of fending for crit/det, but if this works then I won't need to.

I have the proto alex wrist on with crit/acc and it gives me nearly 380 acc in pvp.

Honestly I don't even notice myself missing at 380.

Could swap the neck out for a crit/det/str neck if the anima weapon can give me the same amount of acc as now.

*swap the wrist I mean.

*and eikon ring of fending for crit/acc I mean...

Relics Designed for PvP are the Best PvP weapons and are usually made by players who intend to focus on PvP.

(Assuming all gear is i190+, and all left side is crit/det)

Relic Build:
Weapon - Max:Crit/Det/Acc/Sks
Accessory 1 - Acc/Crit
Accessory 2 - Crit/Det
Accessory 3 - Crit/Det
Accessory 4 - Crit/Det
Accessory 5 - Crit/Det

Non-relic Build:
Weapon - Max: Crit/Det
Accessory 1 - Acc/Crit
Accessory 2 - Acc/Crit
Accessory 3 - Acc/Crit
Accessory 4 - Crit/Det
Accessory 5 - Crit/Det

The relic build garners more DET/SKS by adding the additional SKS from the relic, and by allowing one to forgo 2 Accessories with accuracy to reach the minimum 410 synced down acc cap.

Alternative Non-Relic Build:
Weapon - Crit/Det
Head,Hands, or Feet (1 of them) - Acc/Crit
Accessory 1 - Acc/Crit
Accessory 2 - Crit/Det
Accessory 3 - Crit/Det
Accessory 4 - Crit/Det
Accessory 5 - Crit/Det

This alternative setup puts you exactly at the minimum accuracy of 410, while instead of requiring 3 acc pieces, only needing 2, gaining more DET overall.

You may go with just 2 accessories with accuracy (non-relic set), it's slightly below the min-acc. Shouldn't miss often.

Calls things "usual" I have never seen a pvper who build relic around pvp its not worth the effort and you basically gain nothing

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

[...] and you basically gain nothing

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With the current stat weights...you gain roughly 9-10 more of your main stat on your average DPS in det (46 synced, since you still need 1 acc accessory) you otherwise would have to forego for accuracy. That's disregarding the skill/spell speed entirely since it doesn't help your burst and assuming you always go for crit as the second stat.

It's not a gamebreaking advantage, but neither is ignoring stats entirely and yolo-ing through with a random assortment of stats - small things add up. And yes, if a PvP relic is made, it is usually made by a person who is regularly engaging in PvP or intending to. That's a true statement. If you want to prove it false, you'd have to find more players that don't intend to engage in PvP that optimize their relic for PvP than people who optimize their relic for PvP but do intend to engage in PvP. Good luck!

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Originally Posted by Zojha

And yes, if a PvP relic is made, it is usually made by a person who is regularly engaging in PvP or intending to. That's a true statement.

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It is true but if you consider that almost no one (I dont know a single person) of the pvpers build relics around pvp its kinda bad to bring the idea even up. You realize to get custom stats you need to complete atleast the 240 relic which is a pain. Just pointless to do that if you could just max stats and hit accuracy cap otherwise. Call me 2 regular pvpers who use a relic build around pvp. There is a reason why no one using it.

Btw its just logic that someone who does smth for pvp actually pvps lol

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

You can easily build BiS for pvp that is as good as ur gear set with relic just the one without relic is much less effort.

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A pvp build with a relic specced for PvP his literally +60 more crit (or det if you prefer) than a pvp build without a relic specced for PvP. You don't seem to understand that if you have extra stats on your weapon it means you can build more stats in other places (usually accessories)...

If you want you can post your PvP set w/o a pvp specced weapon and I will post a PvP set with said relic weapon PvP specced that the set with the PvP weapon has higher crit/det than the set w/o it.

And like I said in a previous post, what's the point in making a PvE specced weapon if you're just going to be doing Expert Roulettes with it?

Bonus: My WHM relic weapon specced for PvP. Only ~50 umbrite away from my DRG weapon next.
http://imgur.com/kFYMOzY.png

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

Calls things "usual" I have never seen a pvper who build relic around pvp its not worth the effort and you basically gain nothing

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You gain a lot tbh. Also, look at aether's current #1 gear. He isn't the only one either, you need to be a little bit more observant.

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Originally Posted by Bartleby

If you want you can post your PvP set w/o a pvp specced weapon and I will post a PvP set with said relic weapon PvP specced that the set with the PvP weapon has higher crit/det than the set w/o it.

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I talked about tanks and dps.

so https://i.gyazo.com/0ac8f3af37b3340a...4784507bcd.png outside of pvp

same set inside of pvp https://i.gyazo.com/a3e0507816381849...0acb54f293.png



see? your "more crit" doesnt make a difference lel the only thing u lose is abit of det which isnt that big of a deal

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Originally Posted by Nakanishi

You gain a lot tbh. Also, look at aether's current #1 gear. He isn't the only one either, you need to be a little bit more observant.

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Well excluding the healers its pretty rare for a reason and its not "alot". Lets not forget OP is new not even experienced player need this don't act like its "alot" as if it was a huge advantage over other players.

Februs and tia just being weird. Even a casual like me can see the benefit of this.

Just curious, would upgrading the 240 relic or anima to 260 reset the stats?

And one more thing, I can't seem to find rings with vit/crit/det.

Best I can find is str/crit/det.

Are there any out there?

What are you talking about? There's nothing to compare ur stats to.

Where's the pic with ur optimized relic?

Februs and tia just being weird. Even a casual like me can see the benefit of this.

Just curious, would upgrading the 240 relic or anima to 260 reset the stats?

And one more thing, I can't seem to find rings with vit/crit/det.

Best I can find is str/crit/det.

Are there any out there?

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Originally Posted by P4X0R10N

And one more thing, I can't seem to find rings with vit/crit/det.

Best I can find is str/crit/det.

Are there any out there?

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The only vit/crit/det pieces are the i180 seals earring and the i250 crafted necklace.

Ah yes, the Doman earrings and teak ammy.

I got the earrings but need about 2 million gil for the ammy : * (

Anywho, this sounds interesting.

I'm about almost half way to my 240 anima. I might just grind it out and see if I can drop my sole acc accessory.

If I can still get around 380ish acc I might not wear any acc accessories at all.

Need to grind roulette for gil for the teak ammy too : /

One last thing, just wanted to point out that food works in frontline... which is all I really care about.

I can probably go over 400 acc with food.

So if anyone out there is like me, optimizing relic/anima plus food can prolly let u play frontlines without need for any acc accessories...

Which is awesome I think

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Originally Posted by P4X0R10N

Februs and tia just being weird. Even a casual like me can see the benefit of this.

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There's nothing weird about it. You should consider it more than just taking it at face value.

I do understand where they're coming from on this. Advocating for a custom relic build in order to free up other slots for different items with different stats is fine, but you are still operating within the exact same stat caps regardless of what method you use. The simple fact is that all of those stat caps can be met without having to sacrifice your relic stats to do it. Creating a custom relic for the sake of using different accessories really doesn't make a difference to the end result. All you're doing is changing where you're getting those stats from. The final sync'd stats are the same.

There's also the problem with useless stats, which people seem to be dramatically underestimating.

Firstly, Parry is useless. That's not debatable. There are pages upon pages of data in this on the Tank forums concerning how the scaling for parry is literally the worst conceivable math equation that SE could have possibly implemented, and that's in content where you literally stand still and face your enemy head on. Even SE has acknowledged it, which is why they're planning a change come next expansion. It's not impossible to score a parry, however stacking additional parry onto your loadout is a waste of time because the scaling is so tiny that it's practically unnoticeable. It's even worse in PvP, because positional requirements go out the window.

Accuracy, as well, is almost as useless, because there is a difference between required accuracy and the stat cap. This is the same in PvP as it is in Progression Raiding. When building your gear for that content, you're only interested in hitting the minimum required accuracy so that you don't miss. Once you hit that number, you won't. It's that simple. Stacking anything else into accuracy after the minimum has been achieved is just redundant and pointless.

Now, again, there's nothing wrong with creating a custom relic for PvP if you want to, but it's not necessary for a melee player. All of the stat caps can be achieved without sacrificing a relic to do it, and your caps will be the same within the 150 sync regardless of where you're getting those stats from.

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Originally Posted by Februs

More often than not, the custom stats of a PvP relic and a PvE relic would be identical anyway, because almost every melee character is going to cap Crit/Det to get the most bang for their buck. All other stat caps, including accuracy, can be met in both content without much need of any gear tweaking. Most of the gear carries more accuracy than is necessary, so you'd have to go pretty far out of your way to fall below the required minimum.

I'm not so sure about casters, though. For the most part, I'd imagine it's a similar situation, but I've seen the occasional healer run dry on Mp, so maybe not.

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Are you serious februs?

Thought you pvped...

Most of the gear DOES NOT carry acc... at least not if ur trying to max crit and det.

My acc falls down to 350ish without acc accessory.

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Originally Posted by P4X0R10N

Just curious, would upgrading the 240 relic or anima to 260 reset the stats?

And one more thing, I can't seem to find rings with vit/crit/det.

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The stats do not reset but they do still increase I believe. So by the time we get to i270 it might be capping the secondaries in all 5 stats as opposed to just 4 with some leftover for the 5th.

With regards to tank accessories, as Tira said, the only VIT accessories with crit/det are the earrings and neck (you can use the i148 gubal library neck if you dont want to buy the i250 neck, you only lose like +1 crit and a few det). Other than that you'll have to use either crit/acc, crit/skspd, or det/acc, det/skspd I believe.

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Originally Posted by Februs

The simple fact is that all of those stat caps can be met without having to sacrifice your relic stats to do it. Creating a custom relic for the sake of using different accessories really doesn't make a difference to the end result. All you're doing is changing where you're getting those stats from. The final sync'd stats are the same.

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I don't think you fully understand... a PvP weapon caps FOUR secondaries on ONE weapon. Any other weapon can only cap TWO secondaries. This means you get EVEN MORE crit/det in other places since you don't need to build extra accuracy in those other places, it is not just a simple "moving secondaries around" you get MORE OVERALL SECONDARIES with a PvP relic. Capping accuracy is absolutely required and it generally takes 3 accessories to do so, using a PvP relic lets you do it with only 1 accessory WHILE STILL MAINTAINING FULL CRIT/DET SECONDARIES ON YOUR WEAPON. I'm not sure how else to really explain this to you or Tia.

Secondly like I think I mentioned earlier, +Parry, while still bad, is a lot more useful in PvP (especially on a DPS class where you're constantly being focused) since the way damage is dealt with/healed is a lot different than the way it is in PvE scenarios. In PvE, damage is very scripted, meaning that a parry doesn't really affect what the healer is going to do. In PvP, damage is very UNscripted and a single parry or two on the right move can very often mean the difference between surviving a burst or not. Again, you wouldn't stack it as a tank since tanks aren't normally being bursted, and there are still problems with parrying (like having to face the target), but it is not completely dead and has been the deciding factor in games before.

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

see? your "more crit" doesnt make a difference lel

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Swap in customized relic with maxed Crit/det/accuracy.
Swap out 2 of your accessories with det/accuracy (or crit/accuracy) for crit/det.

Congratulations you still maintain accuracy cap while getting an extra +60 crit or w/e.

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Originally Posted by Bartleby

Swap in customized relic with maxed Crit/det/accuracy.
Swap out 2 of your accessories with det/accuracy (or crit/accuracy) for crit/det.

Congratulations you still maintain accuracy cap while getting an extra +60 crit or w/e.

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I know what u mean but if u read my edited post .... put the accuracy to the side for a moment if I go in every slot crit det I still have the amount of crit I posted in the other post yea u gain abit of stats det etc but saying its alot and is worth the effort of doing it is wrong. If you want to recommend a pvp relic to a new person and saying its a huge difference thats wrong.

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

put the accuracy to the side for a moment if I go in every slot crit det I still have the amount of crit I posted in the other post

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Yeah, if you wore 0 accuracy you would still have the same/more det/crit but wearing 0 accuracy isn't an option unless you want to miss in the middle of your burst and basically waste your CDs.

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

but saying its alot and is worth the effort of doing it is wrong.

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Well it's about +60 det or crit depending on which acc accessories you're using which is around +~10 STR or so. Idk how much you want to quantify as "a lot". As far as it being worth it, again up to the person, imo if you're doing a relic, and you PvP even semi regularly, you might as well do the PvP stat distribution since the secondaries won't really matter in PvE as you're either A) doing faceroll content, at which point who cares about your secondaries, or B) you're a raider and you had a better weapon months ago. If you don't feel like doing a relic, and there's plenty of people who don't, I wouldn't blame them or anything. I just make them because I have nothing else to spend my tomes on.

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

If you want to recommend a pvp relic to a new person and saying its a huge difference thats wrong.

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No one ever said this.

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

Well excluding the healers its pretty rare for a reason and its not "alot". Lets not forget OP is new not even experienced player need this don't act like its "alot" as if it was a huge advantage over other players.

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It's an advantage, and "a lot" can mean anything, but it doesn't change the fact that it is better. Need a better argument than commenting on semantics.

It's still worth to get if you, like has been mentioned multiples times, intend to focus on PvP. Raid gear trumps relic, if you're really trying to max out on PvE gear, you'd raid for it. By the time the relic finally catches up to raid gear it'd be in an irrelevant catch-up patch (that'll more likely than not, unlock the raid) for 4.0 so it can be replaced in 4 levels. So no, you don't "have" to get the relic for PvE, just like you don't have to get relic for PvP. It's a preference and the stats can be changed freely through crystal sands without requiring any additional umbrites.

https://i.gyazo.com/ed99489242039201...68e686faa9.png

#pvplife. 10 characters.

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Originally Posted by Enlial

https://i.gyazo.com/ed99489242039201...68e686faa9.png

#pvplife. 10 characters.

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You're still a ninja though :^)