If Parry Is Removed

If Parry Is removed, then what will happen to the Dark Knights reprisal ability?

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

If Parry Is removed, then what will happen to the Dark Knights reprisal ability?

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It won't get removed. Parry is still useful. Just not useful enough to stack over other secondary attributes. However, it occurs often enough that you'd miss it if it were removed entirely.

There are two Parries.

There is Parry: the mechanic itself
And there is Parry: the secondary stat

Both can be criticized for whatever reason. FAIK Square Enix only acknowledged that Parry *the seconary stat* was underwhelming, and they all looking ways to address it.

So I'm not expecting more from them than just increasing Parry proc rate per point of secondary, or moving away from linear scaling and have parry chance be based off enemy iLVL vs Player Parry secondary stat (similar to enemy evasion VS player Accuracy).

Either way won't change much, because the Parry mechanic itself is probably never better than even the smallest increase in DPS via Crit/Det,

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Originally Posted by Xenosan

Either way won't change much, because the Parry mechanic itself is probably never better than even the smallest increase in DPS via Crit/Det,

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As a Dark Knight main, I'm shocked to see you damn the mechanic itself. On average, I have a 15-20% parry chance each raid night, that's 3-4% less physical damage that I'm taking overall and 5-7% chance to counter-attack with a free Low Blow. The power of parrying is underwhelming when you're playing, but when you look back at the math, you'll see it as a very powerful part of any tank's kit.

Additionally, unless your crit and det upgrades are enough to increase your static's overall damage output by a generous 3-4%, you'll be hard pressed to see either of those stats outweigh the base parry rate in terms of staying alive.

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Originally Posted by MiniPrinny

As a Dark Knight main, I'm shocked to see you damn the mechanic itself. On average, I have a 15-20% parry chance each raid night, that's 15-20% less damage that I'm taking overall and 5-7% chance to counter-attack with a free Low Blow. The power of parrying is underwhelming when you're playing, but when you look back at the math, you'll see it as a very powerful part of any tank's kit.

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Nope, even as a dark knight, that 15-20% may exist, but it just means healers are wasting mp 15-20% of the time in overcuring you. It's not helping.

@ OP, I haven't heard anything official from SE that they're even considering removing parry as a mechanic, but if they did obviously they'd have to rework reprisal as well as raw intuition, so if they went that far they'd definitely do something about them.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

Nope, even as a dark knight, that 15-20% may exist, but it just means healers are wasting mp 15-20% of the time in overcuring you. It's not helping.

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So you want me to overlook every time I parry a tankbuster or reprisal before a massive magical attack. That's not going to happen. Also, healing doesn't work in a bubble, the math doesn't match the methods.

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Originally Posted by MiniPrinny

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No, but
1. Parry will never save you from a tankbuster killing you. If it does, it means you weren\\'t topped off or didn\\'t use proper cooldowns in the first place. You also can\\'t guarantee a Parry unless you\\'re a Warrior. Plus you cannot parry magic attacks which a lot of tankbusters are.

2. The healer is going to throw the same heal at you whether you parry or not. Since raid fights are majority scripted, healers have an accurate guess as to how much damage you should be taking at any given moment, and the majority of the time, you aren\\'t parrying, so they adjust for that.

3. Some math was done in another thread that showed that even if you do put full parry gear on, your parry rate is still abysmal (aka it takes a LOT of parry for a small % increase). I\\'d much rather take 2-4% extra DPS than 1-2% extra mitigation on physical hits

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Originally Posted by MiniPrinny

So you want me to overlook every time I parry a tankbuster or reprisal before a massive magical attack. That's not going to happen. Also, healing doesn't work in a bubble, the math doesn't match the methods.

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Sure, if you just want to keep disagreeing with the tons of threads and research that's been done on this, both on the pure math side and the practical side. The math does match the methods; this has been tested to the point of being beaten to death and you disagreeing doesn't make it so.

by all means i heard about that the will adjust this "offstat" in the Future but to Answer the question in this thread:

IF parry is Removed, Despite the fact that one or maybe two abilites are NOT working anymore for the DRK, i would not make a big massive difference at all. You take more Damage from Auto Attacks and some other Physical abilites; Fluff Damage, some one is smacking you with a Pillow just a bit harder, that's it.

It would not make a difference at all if this "Stat" would be out of the game, the healers would probably heal you for a bit more maybe for each Auto attack that was not a "Parry", which does not make difference anyways because like the other Classes, they also have a "set Rotation" of how to heal, when to dps, etc., there are always Random Factors here and there without a doubt so you have to adjust etc., but that is how you usually Play every Class.(sort of)

Honestly they should buff the bejesus out of parry for all three tanks. If it's a strong enough defensive option then it might actually contend with damage stats and become a choice that matters. The reality is that (especially on progression) healers and tanks mess up sometimes, but not every mistake is automatically a wipe. I've had winning runs where I've been down to 14 HP and it was that one extra VIT or a parry a few attacks ago that saved me. Because of that, I've never really bought the "well it's just more overhealing" argument against parry. The real argument is just that the stat is complete garbage. Parries are weak and the proc rate increase is bad for what you have to give up.

The one thing I hope they don't do is put some stupid damage conversion on it. It'll either end up too weak that nobody uses it anyway, just like now, or so strong that there's no reason to use anything but it.

One option would be to replace it with some balanced number of damage resist like this:

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...m/dacdfdb4ea4/

Beef up those numbers and just lump em all together in one "damage taken" stat to cover physical and magical, and they might get used.

I don't feel like they'd actually take out parry but instead buff it somehow.

But for the question I think one thing they could do is make reprisal dark artsable, as in make it so that reprisal is only able to be used under the influence of dark arts; that is if they still chose to even lock it behind something else. But in this situation they would need to increase the time it's on cooldown plus scrap its connection to dark dance or else you essentially give your dark knight a virus.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

One option would be to replace it with some balanced number of damage resist like this:

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...m/dacdfdb4ea4/

Beef up those numbers and just lump em all together in one "damage taken" stat to cover physical and magical, and they might get used.

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There's already such a stat. Well two. Defense and M.Defense.

I posted this in the other threads about parry and I'll post it here to. I don't care what they do with it, either make it useful or get rid of it entirely. At this point I just want them to do SOMETHING with it.

Before everybody goes out on a limb, please check out this thread for some mathematics of Parry so you can make informed decisions
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...nce_data_dump/

IMO Parry needs to be changed, however, I'm leaning towards a quasi offensive stat where it gives you a chance to either reflect damage (which will be hard to code and balance) or some kind of counterattack similar to Vengeance.

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Originally Posted by CookieMonsta

Before everybody goes out on a limb, please check out this thread for some mathematics of Parry so you can make informed decisions
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...nce_data_dump/

IMO Parry needs to be changed, however, I'm leaning towards a quasi offensive stat where it gives you a chance to either reflect damage (which will be hard to code and balance) or some kind of counterattack similar to Vengeance.

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Saw that thread last night, most interesting theorycrafting read I've had for a while. Very thorough confirmation of what everyone's been saying all along. I too would like to see parry used for an automatic counter or some mechanic common between all tanks that makes it useful. The established raid meta says that DPS is king and I don't see this changing (until perhaps 4.0-4.1 if they really wanted to), so for tanks to stop sighing in defeat every time they see a piece with parry, something else needs to happen.

The actual problem with the Parry stat is that it is competing with four other stats that increase outgoing damage (i.e. Acc/Crit/Det/SkS) when it only has a very minor influence on that number for only one job.

Increasing the chance of reducing a physical attack by 20% from ~10% to ~36% is actually pretty good. It is roughly a a 5.4% reduction in average damage taken from physical attacks, but few would trade a 9% increase in damage dealt for it.

If Parry was competing with defensive stats rather than offensive stats (say if each tank piece had Str, Vit, 2 of Acc/Det/Crit/SkS and 1 of Parry/Blunt Res/Pierce Res/Slash Res) then Parry might have a chance.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

There's already such a stat. Well two. Defense and M.Defense.

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Defense/M.Def is completely controlled by class and item level. You never choose to take more or less of it. Much like STR/VIT (except with STR materia on accessories), it might as well not even be listed on the item. If parry offered bonus constant mitigation you could choose to take it or not.

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Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron

No, but
1. Parry will never <...snip...> parry magic attacks....

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It bugs the hell out of me that we can Parry an explosion but we can't parry a large solid rock being thrown at us by a healer.

I honestly don't know the number formula. I'm always assuming its similar to XI skill formula. Where the actual number is like accuracy in relation to content. To low and you get almost nothing. While anything over the rate cap is a wasted stat. That one ability from Warrior may not even rely on the parry value. While adding a Reprisal reset or counter damage would make it more functional in 1 on 1 fights with Dark. It just adds to Paladin's issues with the stat where it has the least practical use. Unless it 's made to RNG-deal counter damage (likely never to happen).