is selling housing bannable?

if it is why are people still doing it?

for real money?

Yes it is, but there has not been enough ban to scare people so they continu, thinking it only happens to others

It depends on the GM that reviews the complaint, the NA ones seem to take issue with it I hear elsewhere they do not.

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Originally Posted by papichulo123

if it is why are people still doing it?

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Because SE has failed to make a clear and definitive statement about reselling houses relative to having your account banned and that would and should include the master account and not simply an alt for flipping them and then transferring the funds.

Oh it is? Sweet, I know at least one jerkface that does it on Lamia.

Is it banable? How is this any different than selling any other in game items for Gil?

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Originally Posted by Aramyth

Is it banable? How is this any different than selling any other in game items for Gil?

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^ this

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Originally Posted by Aramyth

Is it banable? How is this any different than selling any other in game items for Gil?

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.. Probably that it's not even a in game item? One could argue it's disruptive to the community.

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Originally Posted by Aramyth

Is it banable? How is this any different than selling any other in game items for Gil?

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Well it not really bannable but can get a warning on your acccount which can lead to a ban if get enough warnings. It because housing is limited as most other items in the game are infinite and can be obtained without having to to through a reseller. Plus they not actually selling the plot as you still have to buy the plot from the system after giving the person gil to give it up.

It is only bannable because the Eorozean Housing Union hasn't approved real estate licenses

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Originally Posted by Aramyth

Is it banable? How is this any different than selling any other in game items for Gil?

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Because you are not supposed to do it in the way housing was created, thus it's kind of a "bug exploit" (and some people buy so many houses just for reselling that it screws the game for others and is considered as a nuissance regarding the TOS)

bad game design

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Originally Posted by Inori-Yuzuriha

bad game design

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Users exploiting said "bad game design"..

Why can't people find other ways to make gil instead of making it harder for others trying to obtain a limited supply of housing plots. Oh, right, a combination of being greedy and lazy.

IIRC this argument and discussion has been going on for a while. You can be banned for doing it, it depends on the GM. People are locking down houses and flipping them for very high prices, THAT is considered distruptive behavior and IS against TOS and can have actions taken against your account. Selling in game items for Gil is NOT against ToS, that would be stupid and we would all be banned. The reason why a lot of ppl do it is where the violation comes in, I think that really needs to be made clear.

Again it is up to the discretion of the GM and with all of the work that some of us put into our characters, it really isn't worth taking the chance of it even if the person means well.

I mean from my point of view it should not be ban-able. You brought the plot, invested a lot of money into it and certainly decided you don't need it anymore or just need the money for something else. So why ban someone who want to give someone else the opportunity to acquire a plot? If SE wants to stop it they should implement a system, where people who want to get "rid" of their plot get a compensation to do so. Either 100% the current price back or at least somewhat of a compensation. As long as SE does not come up with such a system, people will continue to sell the plots they "rightfully" own.

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Originally Posted by Morzy

Users exploiting said "bad game design"..

Why can't people find other ways to make gil instead of making it harder for others trying to obtain a limited supply of housing plots. Oh, right, a combination of being greedy and lazy.

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Well they could either sell it, or just not give it up since they won't get anything back for it. If they choose not to sell it, you still can't buy the house. Just because people don't understand supply and demand is no reason to dislike the people that can work a good business system. I'm not for or against it, just stating an opinion.

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Originally Posted by Kazza2003

I mean from my point of view it should not be ban-able. You brought the plot, invested a lot of money into it and certainly decided you don't need it anymore or just need the money for something else. So why ban someone who want to give someone else the opportunity to acquire a plot? If SE wants to stop it they should implement a system, where people who want to get "rid" of their plot get a compensation to do so. Either 100% the current price back or at least somewhat of a compensation. As long as SE does not come up with such a system, people will continue to sell the plots they "rightfully" own.

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We not talking about John Doe over here that decides they don't want their house any more, we talking about Fluffy mcd#*#wad that only buying empty plots to turn around and resell for 3x the plot price which is why it up to the GM whether they issue a warning on the person account.

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Originally Posted by Kazza2003

I mean from my greedy point of view it should not be ban-able. You brought the plot, invested a lot of money into it and certainly decided you don't need it anymore or just need the money for something else. So why ban someone who want to offer someone else the opportunity to acquire a plot for a lot of gil? If SE wants to stop it they should implement a system, where people who want to get "rid" of their plot get a compensation to do so. Either 100% the current price back or at least somewhat of a compensation. As long as SE does not come up with such a system, people will continue to sell the plots they "rightfully" own.

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I fixed that for you.

If you want compensation, wait for the auto-demolishing system to take effect, don't sit here and tell me you can't get compensation, it's been available since 2015.

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Originally Posted by Kazza2003

I mean from my point of view it should not be ban-able. You brought the plot, invested a lot of money into it and certainly decided you don't need it anymore or just need the money for something else. So why ban someone who want to give someone else the opportunity to acquire a plot? If SE wants to stop it they should implement a system, where people who want to get "rid" of their plot get a compensation to do so. Either 100% the current price back or at least somewhat of a compensation. As long as SE does not come up with such a system, people will continue to sell the plots they "rightfully" own.

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As others have stated in this thread, YOUR (and mine, for that matter) point of view isn't relevant. What matters is what the GM says.

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Originally Posted by AsteriaStarfall

Well they could either sell it, or just not give it up since they won't get anything back for it. If they choose not to sell it, you still can't buy the house. Just because people don't understand supply and demand is no reason to dislike the people that can work a good business system. I'm not for or against it, just stating an opinion.

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Working a good business system? We're talking about a disruptive system and you call it good? Get out of here man.

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Originally Posted by Aramyth

Is it banable? How is this any different than selling any other in game items for Gil?

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Because you don't buy an item. You only pay someone millions so that he burn down his house, and then millions again to buy the plot before someone else do it.

The auto demolishing has been temporarily disable, so if you cant get a house in 3.3, the wait is going to be very long. If you are sitting on a wad of gil and want a house, I really don't see any other way other then to buy it off of someone.

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Originally Posted by Aramyth

Is it banable? How is this any different than selling any other in game items for Gil?

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It's not the same. You're not selling the house itself. You're selling the chance to buy the house.

Technically, it's as if someone bought the last pie at the supermarket, then you had to pay that person 5-10 times the price they paid for it so they'll put it back on the counter for you to buy at its original price. It's technically blackmail, and no 100% guarantee that someone else won't walk by and buy the pie while you're not looking.

That, and it's leading to some very shady behavior, like people going in a pair to a house and having one person spam trade requests to an honest buyer while their friend grabs the house, to then resell the right to buy it for several times the original price.

There's absolutely nothing that can really defend this makeshift system. Not even the fact that the housing system is flawed. You're encouraging the most toxic behavior in this game by trying to justify it, when everyone should instead be reporting it at much as possible to show their discontent with it.

Lastly, if you're desperate enough for a house that you'd encourage the kind of behavior that's keeping you from getting one in the first place, then you're also a part of the problem.

so why cant they make a better system? its ridiciolous someone has to pay someone to demolish and then pay again for the plot thats retarted

this is a huge issue why have they not addressed this or done anything to improve?

Playing devil's advocate so please forgive me, but I have to ask, has any one seen anyone actually get a warning for relinquishing the plot for money?

As in specifically not using the word selling, but only saying they were just going to give up/relinquish the land for a fee. I haven't tried it myself and I have no intention to try and find out, but if that is all someone is promising they'll do (give up the land), and they do it, how is that really against the rules currently set out by SE? Saying you're selling a house and then only relinquishing the land I can understand, you haven't provided the service you were selling, but saying you're going to relinquish and then following through on that...

All the threads/posts I've seen on it where people got warnings were because they used words to say they were "selling the house" (which isn't what they were going to do). Is it actually possible GMs are only having problems with people saying things that aren't true?

Very happy to be wrong, just asking the question is all...

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

As others have stated in this thread, YOUR (and mine, for that matter) point of view isn't relevant. What matters is what the GM says.

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The crazy thing here is we have at least one incident going either way where a GM has been screenshotted and posted to forums, one saying it was ok, and another incident where a guy got a warning...and there's been no word from SE on what the stance actually should be, despite numerous threads here asking for that.

As for why it's shady at all a part of it is how the seller can't even guarantee the sale. If you buy from someone and they relinquish and someone else grabs it before you do that'd be an annoying situation for SE to have to handle. It's not a likely situation for sure but the possibility is what they'd want to avoid.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

The crazy thing here is we have at least one incident going either way where a GM has been screenshotted and posted to forums, one saying it was ok, and another incident where a guy got a warning...and there's been no word from SE on what the stance actually should be, despite numerous threads here asking for that.

As for why it's shady at all a part of it is how the seller can't even guarantee the sale. If you buy from someone and they relinquish and someone else grabs it before you do that'd be an annoying situation for SE to have to handle. It's not a likely situation for sure but the possibility is what they'd want to avoid.

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Add that the player you're paying might not even reliquish the plot, double screwed

To my knowledge it is, I have reported people who advertised or tried to sell and the GMs did respond that it is against the TOS. Didn't think to snap the reply or conversation at the time though.

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Originally Posted by Celef

Add that the player you're paying might not even reliquish the plot, double screwed

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That's pretty cut and dry though. Any player deal that someone doesn't follow through on, GMs can check the logs and find the seller didn't deliver what they promised. The problem in my scenario is you end up with 3 parties who have done nothing wrong, and then what do you do? Give the buyer the house? Then 3rd guy loses. Force a refund? Seller loses. So allowing it becomes a problem because if SE says "sure go do it" sellers can potentially be out too, and who's to say the buyer doesn't line someone up to run in and snag it, buyer pretends not to know the guy, makes a complaint.

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Originally Posted by AlphaFox

To my knowledge it is, I have reported people who advertised or tried to sell and the GMs did respond that it is against the TOS. Didn't think to snap the reply or conversation at the time though.

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But you haven't talked to every GM and the point is there's been GMs on record saying it's OK.

Nothing really wrong with someone wanting to sell their plot, if someone wants to go around and pay way extra to get it then let them, to many people seemingly want to mark what "way" is wrong, its either complain about others selling plots, or complain about how overpriced they are XD, housing isn't mandatory

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Originally Posted by Cwestcott18

Nothing really wrong with someone wanting to sell their plot, if someone wants to go around and pay way extra to get it then let them, to many people seemingly want to mark what "way" is wrong, its either complain about others selling plots, or complain about how overpriced they are XD, housing isn't mandatory

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Oh a lot of people would disagree with u, but it seems u dont recognize their arguments.

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Originally Posted by Morzy

Oh a lot of people would disagree with u, but it seems u dont recognize their arguments.

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Well mostly yours XD

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Originally Posted by Morzy

Users exploiting said "bad game design"..

Why can't people find other ways to make gil instead of making it harder for others trying to obtain a limited supply of housing plots. Oh, right, a combination of being greedy and lazy.

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Why do people (not you) excuse others when they exploit the 'game design' in a way that disrupts others? I mean, seriously there are numerous ways in which individuals or groups can rain on another players' parade in an MMORPG that involve exploiting the game design, bad or otherwise, why do we need to excuse people who do this? Hell, I've seen people making a virtue out of this reselling of plot relinquishment information like it's some kind of exemplary instance of capitalism in practice, when in fact it's little more than carpetbagging.

A great way to fix this would be to limit on house per account and one house per FC rule. I know a certain FC has about 6 or 7 houses in lavender beds on Gilgamesh for example. the one house per account rule would prevent people buying up multiple houses to sell in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Cwestcott18

Nothing really wrong with someone wanting to sell their plot, if someone wants to go around and pay way extra to get it then let them.

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Actually there is, player used to buy multiple plots just to resell them 10 min laters for 10 or 15 millions (heard of a FC with 26 houses only used to resell)

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Originally Posted by Morzy

If you want compensation, wait for the auto-demolishing system to take effect, don't sit here and tell me you can't get compensation, it's been available since 2015.

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I might not need my medium plot soon, auto-demolition has been put on hold and SE have provided us with no way to relinquish our land. Not all of us are looking to profit, if I was to 'sell' my land I would only want what I paid for it. The lack of features implemented towards these aspects of housing are not the players fault, so like any commodity in game it should be allowed to go on sale.

People who buy multiple houses with the intent to resell are a lot worse, but stating that no one should be allowed to sell regardless of their circumstances is a little silly. Desperation is making the communtiy angry, but not everything is a bannable offence.

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Originally Posted by Celef

Yes it is, but there has not been enough ban to scare people so they continu, thinking it only happens to others

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I think it's more that most players don't visit the forums, they just play the game. There's been no real announcement saying not to try selling your house. The closest thing we got was the auto-relinquishment.

They really need to post an official notice in game or somewhere where people will be able to see it regarding the legalities of being paid to abandon your plot.

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Originally Posted by Rhodkr

A great way to fix this would be to limit on house per account and one house per FC rule.

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Except it's too late to do that. If they decide to implement something like this, they'll run into trouble no matter how they to it.

- If SE asks people to choose one house they want to keep, those who already have several houses will want to keep all of them and will scream outrage.
- If SE allows people who already have a lot of houses to keep them, people who come in after the implementation of the limitation will be mad that other people can own many houses but they can't.

There's no way to fairly implement this anymore. They should've thought about it beforehand.