Enmity changes needed for PvP:

In Log Horizon, there are moves which make taunts in PvP very effective, this type of thing can also be seen in SWTOR as well.

If you do "not" attack the taunted target in Log Horizon, you are immediately damaged each time you do not target the tank, also it forces you to target the tank at the start.

So for example, I think "Provoke" needs to function like this:

Provoke:
Forces you to target the tank for 1 second. Each attack made against targets "other then you." are retaliated dealing 150 potency in physical damage to the target. This effect lasts 40 seconds. Provoke should be "ATTACK ME, IF YOU DON'T YOUR GONNA GET HURT!"
(note: the tank would be bright red or have a line indicating hes provoking you.)

Bodyguard:
A tank skill which all tanks in PvP should get, which absorbs 30% of all the damage the target takes and raises the targets damage reduction by 5%. This effect has a short range and makes a "chain" between the targets and the target being body gaurded. So you know that the tank is absorbing that targets damage.

Enmity attacks, or attanks in tank stance:
Enmity attacks should lower damage against targets other then you by 25% for 1.5 seconds per enmity attack, all attacks in a Tank Stance are enmity attacks. Each hit refreshes the duration back to 1.5 seconds so the tank must be constantly attacking to maintain this effect.

This would give tanks a viable role in damage reduction for PvP and would also make use of all the defensive abilities tanks are meant to have. Tanks have had their damage cut by a big chunk and have no real role in PvP right now.


A tanks role is to protect their group and be the "first" ones to die, however with current threat mechanics this only works in PvE and doesn't translate well at all in PvP. They are the "last" ones to die because they are the weakest of the group, healers right now forfill the Tanks role.

Having someone else dictate who you can attack is always fun. God forbid you don't notice which of the dozen tanks in frontlines provoked you too, that'll be fun trying to figure out who it was.

Yeah with the huge reduction of damage they should add some emnity type abilities for tanks, it'll add lots of depth and really define how a tank should play in PvP. If we don't get these kinds of abilities, we're just weaker but harder to kill DPS with a couple support PvP abilities.

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Originally Posted by Dimitrii

Having someone else dictate who you can attack is always fun. God forbid you don't notice which of the dozen tanks in frontlines provoked you too, that'll be fun trying to figure out who it was.

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OK then, every other class needs to lose some integral part of their role in order to make it fair, such as Ninjutsu for Ninjas, Summons for Summoners and Scholars, etc.

I think FFXI had this where provoke would make the player lock onto the tank for a few seconds.

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Originally Posted by TheRogueX

OK then, every other class needs to lose some integral part of their role in order to make it fair, such as Ninjutsu for Ninjas, Summons for Summoners and Scholars, etc.

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Cleric Stance says hi! Some abilities are PVE-centric, some are PVP-centric. The jobs aren't terrifically well balanced against one another in every situation (or in any situation, in a few cases). That's just how it is. I play healer in PVP and I never asked to be a tank, but I guess the enemy team often has a different idea of my job's role and that's often what ends up happening.

I'm sure we'll see more proactive balancing once The Feast gets going which might address some points, but I don't want this game's PVP to degenerate into the crowd control and rebalancing chaos that a certain other popular MMORPG's PVP arenas had right before I ended my subscription to that game.

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Originally Posted by Serilda

but I don't want this game's PVP to degenerate into the crowd control and rebalancing chaos that a certain other popular MMORPG's PVP arenas had right before I ended my subscription to that game.

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Don't lie, I bet you miss the triple sheep, into triple cyclone, into blind, into kidney shot, into sap. :P

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Originally Posted by nickx

Don't lie, I bet you miss the triple sheep, into triple cyclone, into blind, into kidney shot, into sap. :P

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How on earth did you know? Respeccing and changing my gameplay style completely every single patch was also great fun just so that I could sit in arena matches and watch my friends playing while I stood still. I was originally shadow too, so... :(

I'm generally not a fan of any game design decisions which take control away from the player. It sounds as though they're addressing tank usefulness in The Feast and I still enjoy having one on my team in FL, whereas giving them (a second?) Cover, even more ways to crush jobs weak against melee already and a gigantic buff to a free ability which capitalises on the difficulties of targeting and coordinating in 72-man doesn't sound all that fun. Imagine if I use Assize after someone randomly throws a Provoke on me and runs away - I'd probably instantly die. And I know SMN is in a good place right now but imagine how awful their lives would become overnight.

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Originally Posted by Dimitrii

Having someone else dictate who you can attack is always fun. God forbid you don't notice which of the dozen tanks in frontlines provoked you too, that'll be fun trying to figure out who it was.

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A chain would go from the tank to you.

or a red line, something indicating you've been provoked.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

I think FFXI had this where provoke would make the player lock onto the tank for a few seconds.

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Then be ignored for 37 seconds?

In EQ2 as a Berserker I could keep an entire raid attacking me every minute, and permalock a target onto me.

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Originally Posted by Serilda

About Provoke

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Provoke would have a range, if the tank isn't near you he can't hurt you with it.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Then be ignored for 37 seconds?

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Yep

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

In EQ2 as a Berserker I could keep an entire raid attacking me every minute, and permalock a target onto me.

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Okay, many game do different things. I don't think we need tanks to become raid bosses simply because it's pvp.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Yep

Okay, many game do different things. I don't think we need tanks to become raid bosses simply because it's pvp.

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Not really what i'm saying, i'm saying that tanks need to do their role like "EVERY OTHER class" can.

I REALLY liked the way Voke worked in FFXI.

It could miss.

If it lands then you cannot do anything that requires targeting anyone other than the voker.

That means you can't cure or attack anyone else.

I don't remember exactly how long it lasted, but maybe 5 seconds is fair?

The only reasonable suggestion here is that bodyguard ability. It probably should be a standard pvp ability for tanks. The last suggestion, the Enmity stance thing, is really bad as is cause you can potentially lock a target onto you or have the poor fool deal nerfed dmg the whole match. For an ability that powerful the tank has to be hit with a giant drawback. If your target doesn't attack you he deals 25% less dmg to his target but will deal 25% more dmg to the tank or 100% crit rate on tank for as long as tank has him locked up like that. Cause as is its just an indirect melee dps nerf since melee dps are the only ones you are gonna be able to use this on with any consistency.

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Originally Posted by Nova_Rox

I REALLY liked the way Voke worked in FFXI.

It could miss.

If it lands then you cannot do anything that requires targeting anyone other than the voker.

That means you can't cure or attack anyone else.

I don't remember exactly how long it lasted, but maybe 5 seconds is fair?

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I suppose that would break the balance in the Feast...

I wont comment on everything , I'll just say this.

40 seconds is an absurdly long time with no drawback. None of your ideas are balanced because they have no drawback. You just have a tank walling a DPS or multiple DPS for a ludicrous amount of time.

Also if tanks pick up medals they'll have to be focused in the feast. As for frontlines... Well it's frontlines.

What are you talking about. If the provoke is 3 to 4 secs it would just be like a stun. And it would have dimishing returns. I don't see why it would break dps classes.

You wanted tanks to tank and someone suggested a change to do that. Stop being do dps Centric cuz that's the only class u play.

Make it 3 to 5 secs on a 40 to 60 sec cooldown.

No it wouldnt... why would it?

The way the OP presented provoke it would last 40 seconds only if you continued to ignore and attack something other than the tank. From what I surmise once you actually attack the tank for that 1 second it's effect would wear. It's pretty gimmicky in the sense that it's trying to catch dps sleeping sort of like vengeance/pushback and would likely just be annoying more than anything to the players that are actually paying attention to debuffs. Other than that I'm not sure how else this would be useful maybe he can elaborate on its application. Anyway no one is gonna like having to potentially switch target for 1 second every 30 seconds. This idea is slightly less worse than the Enmity attacks though that one is horrendous.

My bad dmittri. 40 sec effect is stupid.

3 to 5 is okay. But no. A pvp taunt is not gimmicky. Works fine in LoL. Makes tanks actual tanks.

Tanks boring as hell in pvp right now. And useless too.

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Originally Posted by P4X0R10N

Tanks boring as hell in pvp right now. And useless too.

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really





really.

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Originally Posted by P4X0R10N

3 to 5 is okay. But no. A pvp taunt is not gimmicky. Works fine in LoL. Makes tanks actual tanks.

Tanks boring as hell in pvp right now. And useless too.

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Really, really?













Really

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Originally Posted by P4X0R10N

Tanks boring as hell in pvp right now. And useless too.

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https://xivpvp.com/frontline/match/1456781694
https://xivpvp.com/frontline/match/1456780060
https://xivpvp.com/frontline/match/1456778248

My first 3 matches as warrior after the nerf.
Tanks can still deal alot of damage, I dunno why you are always complaining about tank damage and tanks aren't useless at all lol.

omg why don't they just let Tank, play as dps in pvp its not hard; "Tanks" don't belong in pvp, doing 200-250 damage a hit to a healer with idk 10k life (estimation) makes no sense at all.

Considering most healers are too dumb to focus heal the people with battle high/battle fever I certainly do not want to see a means of dragging BH/BF people into enemy lines where they'll get destroyed simply because a tank could reach them with a provoke. That's a completely stupid suggestion for Seal Rock. I don't work on getting kills for a skilless tank to negate that so easily. I don't even want that in Wolves Den/Feast, because stun lock is annoying enough as it is, imagine you survive that and then get provoked (as a healer) for 3-5 sec more and you're gone.
Reducing the timers on tank pvp skills would be a good thing but are tanks really in a bad spot in pvp right now? I really doubt it, except for DRK maybe, who hardly help their PT at all (lol carnal chill).

Paladins are in a good place when it comes to PvP as far as I am concerned but I can understand how other classes may feel a bit more like a Support DPS. I think Provoke simply forcing a single target to attack/move toward you for 2-3 seconds and perhaps an AoE taunt with Flash or maybe Unleash's range added to the arsenal would help add more utility to their class. I strongly disagree that Tanks should force everyone to attack them non-stop for ridiculous lengths of time, but I think a few seconds at a time - both single target and AoE - would help balance the board a bit so that every tank has the ability to better protect their allies in a more direct sense.

With the changes to PvP I feel this topic needs to be brought back again. Tanks really do not have a role; they don't. Now that they can't harass they are pretty much just 50% DPS.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

With the changes to PvP I feel this topic needs to be brought back again. Tanks really do not have a role; they don't. Now that they can't harass they are pretty much just 50% DPS.

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This Tank says this is incorrect, have you played a tank class in PVP since the hotfix?

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Originally Posted by Slappah

Lol

/10char

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https://media.giphy.com/media/WpPmrUDvnzkTC/giphy.gif

/highfive

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

With the changes to PvP I feel this topic needs to be brought back again. Tanks really do not have a role; they don't. Now that they can't harass they are pretty much just 50% DPS.

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Lol

/10char

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

With the changes to PvP I feel this topic needs to be brought back again. Tanks really do not have a role; they don't. Now that they can't harass they are pretty much just 50% DPS.

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Tell the truth, do you even PvP? Literally have never met you ingame, yet you complain about everything..

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Originally Posted by Houston009

Tell the truth, do you even PvP? Literally have never met you ingame, yet you complain about everything..

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I believe someone in the general forums pointed out that this person is an alt account he uses to post so that his main isn't exposed (which it was for a brief time when he complained about DRK)

Oh, so he uses an alias because he knows he'd get s- on for all the bs he talks about, aight.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

With the changes to PvP I feel this topic needs to be brought back again. Tanks really do not have a role; they don't. Now that they can't harass they are pretty much just 50% DPS.

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Are you kidding me right now? My warrior that we roll with does more dmg than half of the other team does if we get our burst in and drop a target. We run Smn/Nin/Ast/War smn and nin pressure the target then we'll swap and burst to the healer with who else? Our friggen War who's pumping out 4-5k fell cleaves, you can choose to play a "bunker" tank to harass and it works sometimes, depending on the situation.

I mean have you played a war tank in PvP? a paladin? or a Drk? Please tell me your play style or are you gonna lump them all in together?

I thought about making enmity skills decrease damage output for a second or so, but the problem I've found in the Feast is largely that healers who aren't stunlocked into oblivion can overpower pretty much anything you'd want to do to dps. Maybe if enmity skills put a Disease-style debuff that lowered incoming heals by some (small) percentage, so tanks don't necessarily buff group damage by increasing their team's spike damage, but indirectly lower enemy healer contributions.

Maybe 5-10% reduction on incoming heals, refreshed whenever any "added enmity" skill hits the target and the user is in tank stance? (Secret balance note: Some DPS classes have access to Skull Sunder...)

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Originally Posted by fm_fenrir

. Maybe if enmity skills put a Disease-style debuff that lowered incoming heals by some (small) percentage, so tanks don't necessarily buff group damage by increasing their team's spike damage, but indirectly lower enemy healer contributions.

Maybe 5-10% reduction on incoming heals, refreshed whenever any "added enmity" skill hits the target and the user is in tank stance? (Secret balance note: Some DPS classes have access to Skull Sunder...)

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Full Swing, Delerium, Glory Slash, Storm's Eye, Rage of Halone all say hi.

Tanks have no role pfft, nothing like a DRK who applies 10% int debuff to casters, Pally's that str debuff melee dps, Warriors who drop SE on the focus target, negating 50% of all heals coming their way, and Full Swing is like having another Dps railing on the focus target. I'd also like to point out skills like Thrill of War/ Testudo and Cover do more for the Tank role, then some silly Lock on tagged to the Provoke tooltip exclusive to PVP( not to mention Cross class skill slots are limited; I'd rather take Featherfoot, Internal release, Convalescence, Second Wind, and Awareness than Provoke)

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

negating 50% of all heals coming their way

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I was gonna complain about that a little while ago because 50% was way too much, but it's actually been changed to 20% for WAR too, when however, I don't know.