[SPOILER] Who or What is Unukalhai?

For those who are ignoring the Spoiler warning and are not that far into HW, Unukalahai is the one who gives you the Bismark and Ravana EX fights.

Here is my question though: Who, or rather what, is Unukalhai?
They wear a white mask and robe, so we can't see any facial features.
They are the size of a Hyurian child, yet they do not have any visible horns like the Padjal of Gridania.

To go even further is the name, Unukalhai.
Unukalhai is the brightest star in the constellation Serpens.
Serpens is the snake portion of the constellation Ophiuchus, a.k.a. the constellation Zodiark is based off of in the Ivalice Alliance games.

Could Unukalhai be connected to the Ascians, Elidibus, and/or Zodiark?

To quote myself from elsewhere, which is pretty much what you said in more words :p

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First, he's someone we don't know anything about, but Urianger seems to know him. And Urianger shows up saying that the discussion you're having concerns "the fate of this star," exactly echoing the words used by Elidibus at the end of 2.55. This should already be sounding alarm bells.

Second, we have his name. Unukalhai is the name of a star in Ophiuchus, the Serpent Bearer. In FF Tactics, the bearer of the Serpentarius Zodiac Stone was. . .Elidibus.

Third, we have his outfit, which is about as close to the white Ascian look as one can get without actually wearing Ascian garb.

So, yeah, all signs point to his being Elidibus.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Could Unukalhai be connected to the Ascians, Elidibus, and/or Zodiark?

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No one knows for sure, but yeah, it's very likely he has those connections.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

"the fate of this star"

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Unukalhai himself uses this phrase if you talk to him after completing Thok Around the Clock.

Yeah... I mean, I'm not saying he's Elidibus, ...but he's definitely Elidibus.

Ascians can possess all kinds of bodies, so I wouldn't be surprised.

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Originally Posted by myahele

I also think that they were "discovered" that way, too.

You know what's interesting? Sabik and Unukalhai are both stars in the Ophiucus/Serpens constellation........which also represents Zodiark: the 13th Zodiac

http://www.constellationsofwords.com...tars/Sabik.JPG

Additionally, Elidibus in previous FF has always been closely tied to Zodiark + in Tactics he looks like this:
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...F_Elidibus.png


Back on topic: another poster said that in the French translation that the Triads were from a different dimension. Very far fetched theory, but what IF they're the same Triad from FF6? That after Kefka's defeat they somehow teleported into FF14's world?

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I don't know about him being Elidibus, but I do think he's a subordinate of Elidibus at least.

We know that there are "minor" asciens that work for the main Asciens so far we only know of Lahabrea's subordinates, but it's possible each have their own and in varying amounts

I believe this all ties back to Urianger's meeting with Elidibus at the end of the whole 2.0 story arch. It's plain through Elidibus' speech and conversations that he was not happy with Nabriales and Lahabrea's attitude towards how to re-establish balance and their actions taken. It's obvious that Urianger also understands that any sort of imbalance towards light or dark can disrupt all life on the planet. I assume both of them are working together to find a solution to the problem that will benefit both parties equally.

[QUOTE=myahele;3233972 - [/QUOTE]

I never actually looked at the names of the stars, BUT ultima weapons core, is called ''heart of sabik'' wich, in praetorium cutcene lahabrea described as :

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It is the Weapon's core - an enigma whose surface even the vaunted scholar of ancient Allag failed to scratch. The magic within has lain dormant for eons

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Well, i could rocket speculate at how what we know of ultima can be related to the scions of light from XII, as how this ultima or even proto ultima could have some relation to elidibus like mateus/lahabrea, chuchualain/nabriales etc....

as we know that its the Heart of sabik that ''absorbs'' the primals aether.... and its ''but a silver of my god's power'' (Zodiark)could ununkalhai also want us to slay ravana and bismark so their aether is absorbed by something OR to it be absorbed by the warrior of light as the ''WoL is becoming a primal'' theory?
Anyway, this also hints that Ultima is also some of elidibus doings?

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Originally Posted by -Krypyonite-

I never actually looked at the names of the stars, BUT ultima weapons core, is called ''heart of sabik'' wich, in praetorium cutcene lahabrea described as :



Well, i could rocket speculate at how what we know of ultima can be related to the scions of light from XII, as how this ultima or even proto ultima could have some relation to elidibus like mateus/lahabrea, chuchualain/nabriales etc....

as we know that its the Heart of sabik that ''absorbs'' the primals aether.... and its ''but a silver of my god's power'' (Zodiark)could ununkalhai also want us to slay ravana and bismark so their aether is absorbed by something OR to it be absorbed by the warrior of light as the ''WoL is becoming a primal'' theory?
Anyway, this also hints that Ultima is also some of elidibus doings?

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Omega?

*tinfoil*

One interesting thing is how he seems to suggest that the Extreme Bismark/Ravana and their goal to reach Azys Lla to absorb the Warring Triad were not part of any Ascian plan...

Obviously, if he is related to the Ascians, he'd try to improve our opinion of them... Though he could always be telling the truth... I'd quite like it if the Ascians plans have just backfired instantly... They tried to manipulate the Warrior of Light in the past, would be quite interesting if the Warriors of Darkness instantly ended up threatening the Ascian Master Plan...

Yea, I'm pretty sure he's a (Poorly) disguised Elidibus. After all, he needs us to kill Bismark, Ravana, and probably at some point the warring triad (As apparently Primals and Eikons can even eat Ascian souls once their physical forms have been weakened) and it'd make since for him to be disguised since our Auracite trick combined with our blessing of light could end up killing him too. (Personally I still want to introduce this guy to the Sharp end of my Nexus Weapon even if Urainge says to hold off for now.)

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Originally Posted by -Krypyonite-

could ununkalhai also want us to slay ravana and bismark so their aether is absorbed by something OR to it be absorbed by the warrior of light as the ''WoL is becoming a primal'' theory?

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Idk about us becoming a primal but...

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Originally Posted by Igeyohrm

Tell me: why do you despise the primals so? They are the embodiment of mortal will─of mortal desire. Plainly, you desire a foe to despise. And 'tis well that you do, for it is from the vortex of ceaseless conflict that Lord Zodiark shall be reborn.

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Originally Posted by Lahabrea

Through the Joining, the world shall become whole again. Then all shall be as once it was─as it should ever have remained

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We're definitely playing into their hands in some way by slaying all these primals.

EDIT: I highly doubt the Ascians would intentionally create through us a power rivaling their own god. My guess is that it still has something to do with the displacement of aether.

could be creating imbalance so elidibus (actually elidibus seems like the best ascian (if we may call him) he seems to be the calmer and defo less agressive, even comes to talk to us calmly, and disapproves other ascians actions against us.)

by doing so, looks like elidibus is ''forced '' to call over the warrior of darkness for ''him and his own to join the frey''

He could very well be a minion of Elidibus, like the black masked Ascians in the SMN quests are minions of Lahabrea.

how do you know they are lahabrea minions? i don't remember any reference btu might have overlooked it.

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Originally Posted by -Krypyonite-

how do you know they are lahabrea minions? i don't remember any reference btu might have overlooked it.

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I believe that one of them mentions that they're doing this for "Master Lahabrea", or something along those lines.

to the inn !

edit : yeah on the cutcene of lvl 60 quest it says that we ( WoL ) defeated lahabrea, then in another line : ''you defeated my master..'' - said the Ascian of the twelfth chalice.

so, techinicly, Unukalhai would be one of those weaker ascians that can be defeated quickly?

well, taking in mind that in the smn quest:

we may have beaten it or not, and if we did, was with bahamuth's power

I really can't wait to see whats coming on 3.1...

I am beginning to wonder of Urianger is somehow related to the character Travanchet that seemed to be connected to the Ascians in 1.0. Both of these characters are mysteriously connected to the Ascians, but Urianger more so than the other. Also, is it not suspicious that Urianger has always been the NPC that deals with studying, identifying, and overseeing all of the Primal threat? I mean, a mysterious Elezen mage who clearly has ties with the Ascians, the people who know how to summon Primals, is the go to guy for Primal summoning?

I don't care if Moonbryda and the others have "known" him for years. The dude is straight up suspicious.

As for Travanchet? He was an Elezen who wielded magic, but, like the Ascians, did not cast a shadow. Also, Travanchet stole the Seal Rock key from Y'shtola before he vanished, and with Seal Rock now appearing as part of the PvP arenas, I'd guess we might be learning more about that in the future.

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Originally Posted by Eisen-Zorn

I am beginning to wonder of Urianger is somehow related to the character Travanchet that seemed to be connected to the Ascians in 1.0.

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Quick, someone check to see if Urianger has a shadow. >o>

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Originally Posted by treuhavik

Idk about us becoming a primal but...





We're definitely playing into their hands in some way by slaying all these primals.

EDIT: I highly doubt the Ascians would intentionally create through us a power rivaling their own god. My guess is that it still has something to do with the displacement of aether.

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I am convinced that the WoL is already a Primal. I also believe that Thordan's reaction to us at the end of Heavensward is almost a confirmation of this.

The reason I believe this is something that was mentioned at the very beginning of A Realm Reborn when your character is told about the Warriors of Light. Remember, the people of Eorzea cannot remember your character from before The Calamity. You're told that any attempt to recall them is thwarted because, and I'm trying to remember the quote, "It's like they're standing in front of a blinding light that keeps them hidden from our minds."

Also, remember what Tiamat says when she talks about her summoning of Bahamut. She succeeded in bringing him back, but he was different from before. He came back, but as her emotions were twisted about his death, he was twisted also. The Bahamut that was recalled was an angry, vengeful shadow of Bahamut. Fast forward to Thordan dying before the Warrior of Light, and as he looks at the WoL you see a similar scene to what is described to your character when the people of Eorzea try to remember the Warriors of Light from before The Calamity. However, your character isn't distorted by light, they are distorted by shadow.

The Primals themselves do not appear to even realize that they are Primals. They, through the faith of who summon them, fully believe that they are Ifrit, Garuda, Shiva, etc., and not some version born from a wish. Also, the Warrior of Light mysteriously appeared at Eorzea's time of need, and at the behest of the largest crystal in all of Hydaelyn. It's possible, that when Luoisoux casted what now appears to be Flow, the Warrior of Light's aether was sent in to the Life Stream and the will of the people summoned them back. I mean, look at Y'shtola after her aether was summoned back from the Life Stream. Something has changed in her, and Matoya saw it.

My first suspicion when I saw unukalhai was that he(?) is one of the missing Scions that's been reincarnated and still recovering his memories. Urianger has him wear a mask so we don't mess up the rehab, or something.

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Originally Posted by Eisen-Zorn

I am beginning to wonder of Urianger is somehow related to the character Travanchet that seemed to be connected to the Ascians in 1.0. Both of these characters are mysteriously connected to the Ascians, but Urianger more so than the other. Also, is it not suspicious that Urianger has always been the NPC that deals with studying, identifying, and overseeing all of the Primal threat? I mean, a mysterious Elezen mage who clearly has ties with the Ascians, the people who know how to summon Primals, is the go to guy for Primal summoning?

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Travanchet was indeed an Ascian underling in 1.0, and I too suspected Urianger of being that same Elezen. Though, unfortunately, I was proved wrong as Urianger and Travanchet do not share all facial characteristics.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Quick, someone check to see if Urianger has a shadow. >o>

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As little sense as it makes, all Ascians have shadows as of A Realm Reborn's launch. Reason for this is still up for debate, but regardless of the outcome, it will forever serve as a source of frustration for me, lol.

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Originally Posted by Eisen-Zorn

when Luoisoux casted what now appears to be Flow, the Warrior of Light's aether was sent in to the Life Stream and the will of the people summoned them back.

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Louisoix sent us into a "temporal rift" using powers summoned from Althyk, god of time and space, until such a time that it was safe again to continue working for the betterment of Eorzea. Flow, on the other hand, is an actual, long-forbidden spell that was created by Sharlayans of eld, not a 'primal-power'.

But, for the sake of discussion, let's say Louisoix did use Flow on us back in 1572 6AE. What would that really prove? And, who was it that summoned us back in year 5 of the 7UE as a thoughtform of the v1.0 Warriors of Light? Was there a throng of people impatiently awaiting your arrival when you appeared in Eorzea? How did none of the Scions, with their aetherometers, deduce our primal composition and aether-draining tendencies?

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Originally Posted by Eisen-Zorn

I mean, look at Y'shtola after her aether was summoned back from the Life Stream. Something has changed in her, and Matoya saw it.

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Is Y'shtola now a primal, summoned back from the aetherial steam by the Seedseer? Are you suggesting that three Padjal were unwise enough to willingly summon forth a primal?

No. It was the Elementals, at the behest of Kan-E, Raya-O and A-Ruhn, who found and brought Y'shtola back from the aetherial. When we see Y'shtola next we notice her eyes are...different, yes. She later explains that, as an aftereffect of wandering the aether, he eyes now see via the aether of our realm (conveniently eliminating the need for those goggles, I might add). Matoya simply reminds Y'shtola that seeing by such means depletes the aether of her very being.

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Originally Posted by An Eye For Aether

Matoya: Shtola, wait. When did the light fade from your eyes?

Y'shtola: I might have known that it would not escape your notice. It has been this way since I returned from the Lifestream. An aftereffect of the teleportation magick I invoked, most like.

Matoya: They are called “forbidden spells” for a reason. What were you thinking, girl?

Y'shtola: I have no regrets. I but did what was necessary to preserve the light of hope─to keep my promise to Minfilia. Besides, it afforded me the rare opportunity to wander the aether─a once in a lifetime experience.

Matoya: I need not tell you that it consumes your very life force to see by sensing the aether around you. Take care of yourself, do you hear me?

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Originally Posted by treuhavik

Travanchet was indeed an Ascian underling in 1.0, and I too suspected Urianger of being that same Elezen. Though, unfortunately, I was proved wrong as Urianger and Travanchet do not share all facial characteristics.



As little sense as it makes, all Ascians have shadows as of A Realm Reborn's launch. Reason for this is still up for debate, but regardless of the outcome, it will forever serve as a source of frustration for me, lol.

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Louisoix sent us into a "temporal rift" using powers summoned from Althyk, god of time and space, until such a time that it was safe again to continue working for the betterment of Eorzea. Flow, on the other hand, is an actual, long-forbidden spell that was created by Sharlayans of eld, not a 'primal-power'.

But, for the sake of discussion, let's say Louisoix did use Flow on us back in 1572 6AE. What would that really prove? And, who was it that summoned us back in year 5 of the 7UE as a thoughtform of the v1.0 Warriors of Light? Was there a throng of people impatiently awaiting your arrival when you appeared in Eorzea? How did none of the Scions, with their aetherometers, deduce our primal composition and aether-draining tendencies?



Is Y'shtola now a primal, summoned back from the aetherial steam by the Seedseer? Are you suggesting that three Padjal were unwise enough to willingly summon forth a primal?

No. It was the Elementals, at the behest of Kan-E, Raya-O and A-Ruhn, who found and brought Y'shtola back from the aetherial. When we see Y'shtola next we notice her eyes are...different, yes. She later explains that, as an aftereffect of wandering the aether, he eyes now see via the aether of our realm (conveniently eliminating the need for those goggles, I might add). Matoya simply reminds Y'shtola that seeing by such means depletes the aether of her very being.

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I'm suggesting that the Warrior of Light is an anomaly that is being misunderstood by both The Archons and The Ascians. Y'shtola, however, has begun to notice the sheer impossibility of the Warrior of Light's constant amassing of power. When the Warrior of Light first joined The Scions, they were just an adventurer who was blessed with The Echo. However, the Warrior of Light has since surpassed The Scions and has managed to cast off the barriers placed on them by Midgardsormr. This ability to continuously draw forth more and more power without restraint is not normal, and there is no reason to believe that the Warrior of Light is ordinary.

I think that it's possible that when Thordan was unraveling in to aether that he saw what the others cannot see. This revelation made Thordan realize that there is something about the Warrior of Light that sets them away from everyone else so far that he doesn't even know what the Warrior of Light is anymore.

Also, regarding Y'shtola, it appears that her sight is only possible by viewing the aether around her. I don't think she's just using that skill so she doesn't need the goggles. I believe that Y'shtola has actually been rendered blind by her time in the life stream. She is using aether to compensate for this, but doing so will eventually drain the very aether from her body. Which, if that is true, Y'shtola may actually unravel at some point in the future if she pushes herself too far.

As for The Ascians now having shadows? It may have something to do with them now inhabiting physical bodies. Perhaps before The Calamity they were able to manifest without them, but the imbalance in aether has forced them to find hosts.

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Originally Posted by Eisen-Zorn

I'm suggesting that the Warrior of Light is an anomaly that is being misunderstood by both The Archons and The Ascians. Y'shtola, however, has begun to notice the sheer impossibility of the Warrior of Light's constant amassing of power. When the Warrior of Light first joined The Scions, they were just an adventurer who was blessed with The Echo. However, the Warrior of Light has since surpassed The Scions and has managed to cast off the barriers placed on them by Midgardsormr. This ability to continuously draw forth more and more power without restraint is not normal, and there is no reason to believe that the Warrior of Light is ordinary.

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Ok lets count how many gods we've killed now (Coil included but not counting Primal Inkedu)

Ifrit, titan, Garuda, Moogle Mog XII, Leviathan, Rahmu, Saint Shiva, Phoenix, Bahamut Prime, Odin, Ravana, Bismarck, And God King Thorden with his 12 Knights of the Round.

So in total now, we've defeated 25 god like primal entities and bathed in their Aether after each one's defeat. Combine that with our connection to Hydaelyn and the Blessing of Light v2 giving us a massive store of Aether, and the Echo granting us complete immunity of not only primal tempering but ALL forms of mind control or brain washing, and it starts to become very apparent what Elidibus meant when he said our power was approaching the realm of the gods. Bathing in the Aether of 25 primals, many of which were multiple times, one of which was an elder primal, and another a true Eikon, small wonder we're inexplicably stupid OP.

We're not a primal or an Eikon, we're even more powerful than that. I wouldn't be surprised if we're taking a similar path to God Hood that the Twelve took.

And as for what Thorden saw (As we proceeded to bathe in his and his knights aether no less) is what I see as the first indication that we are leaving the realm of mortals behind and are nearly transcended into a god like state that even the Ascians can't even hope to oppose. The final step being when we our selves destroy the warring triad and bathe in the Aether of the long forgotten and unimaginably powerful True Eikons of eld who's power predates even the 3rd Astral Era.

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Originally Posted by Eisen-Zorn

I'm suggesting that the Warrior of Light is an anomaly that is being misunderstood by both The Archons and The Ascians. Y'shtola, however, has begun to notice the sheer impossibility of the Warrior of Light's constant amassing of power. When the Warrior of Light first joined The Scions, they were just an adventurer who was blessed with The Echo. However, the Warrior of Light has since surpassed The Scions and has managed to cast off the barriers placed on them by Midgardsormr. This ability to continuously draw forth more and more power without restraint is not normal, and there is no reason to believe that the Warrior of Light is ordinary.

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There's absolutely no doubt that Warriors of Light, and anyone else with the echo for that matter, are special. However, labeling the WoL a primal and suggesting that the WoL is an anomaly are completely different. Yes, the WoL has become incredibly powerful, thanks to the echo, but if we're going to theorize that WoL is truly a primal...we're going to have to answer all those tough questions posed in my last post.

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Originally Posted by Eisen-Zorn

Also, regarding Y'shtola, it appears that her sight is only possible by viewing the aether around her. I don't think she's just using that skill so she doesn't need the goggles. I believe that Y'shtola has actually been rendered blind by her time in the life stream. She is using aether to compensate for this, but doing so will eventually drain the very aether from her body. Which, if that is true, Y'shtola may actually unravel at some point in the future if she pushes herself too far.

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Literally no argument here. This is pretty much everything I just said. And not needing to wear the goggles is simply a convenience, I remarked. Seems there may be a language barrier here.

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Originally Posted by Eisen-Zorn

As for The Ascians now having shadows? It may have something to do with them now inhabiting physical bodies. Perhaps before The Calamity they were able to manifest without them, but the imbalance in aether has forced them to find hosts.

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-- In 1.0 they took only two forms, that we saw. There was a Skeletal Ascian and a case of host-possession (Travanchet was just some Elezen who's body was seized by an Ascian underling). Neither of these forms cast shadows and were accompanied by their theme music, Without Shadow.

-- In ARR, we know that Ascians appear both with and without hosts, is just hard to determine exactly which method of manifestation is being performed at any given time. In either case, they all cast a shadow despite being accompanied by their theme music and the fact that their name literally means "Shadowless".

Again, it's debatable whether or not the change holds any significance, but I'm leaning toward the side of a developmental goof or limitation.

That dude clearly is not Elidibus. He has connections with him.

There is only one reason to assume it is Elidibus and that relays on assuming the child is an Ascian and the fact is within the Rising Stone. But I would not venture him so far knowing they possess both the power to suppress and eliminate Ascians now. In this situation, another sort of emissary may be necessary. Why not just relay on Urianger is anyone's guess.

I think the problem with the theory that WoL is a primal is that Minfillia and Ysayle cannot be tempered, yet they still believed in the WoL as any beastman would theirs. The Ascians would have said we were primals to our faces.

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Originally Posted by Toranja

There is only one reason to assume it is Elidibus and that relays on assuming the child is an Ascian and the fact is within the Rising Stone. But I would not venture him so far knowing they possess both the power to suppress and eliminate Ascians now. In this situation, another sort of emissary may be necessary. Why not just relay on Urianger is anyone's guess.

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Actually, the first two posts lay out a number of reasons, none of which assume up front that he's an Ascian. As for killing Ascians, we've thus far only done it to Ascians who offered us violence, and besides, we seem to be out of white auricite anyway.

This is super tinfoil-y, but regarding the WoL's nature, is it possible that Louisoux's botched invocation of the Twelve somehow infused the WoL with the power of ALL of them? The WoL himself/herself wouldn't be a primal, but would contain the power of the Twelve/Archons/Zodiac Braves/Whatever concentrated in one being.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

This is super tinfoil-y, but regarding the WoL's nature, is it possible that Louisoux's botched invocation of the Twelve somehow infused the WoL with the power of ALL of them? The WoL himself/herself wouldn't be a primal, but would contain the power of the Twelve/Archons/Zodiac Braves/Whatever concentrated in one being.

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WoL=Hydaelyn's power in mortal form. They arent a primal, eikon, or anything like that. ALL of our unatural power comrs from the blessing of light. And thanks to Midguardsormr locking the blessing away it made us polish our natural martial skills to prove we were worthy of the blessing. Thus making our power nearly god like. Cue Elidibus callind The Warrior of Darkness

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Originally Posted by Daralii

This is super tinfoil-y, but regarding the WoL's nature, is it possible that Louisoux's botched invocation of the Twelve somehow infused the WoL with the power of ALL of them? The WoL himself/herself wouldn't be a primal, but would contain the power of the Twelve/Archons/Zodiac Braves/Whatever concentrated in one being.

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Unlikely. 12 power went into this.
https://youtu.be/1xOOFCltZuc
(5:40 for fcob cs)

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Originally Posted by CGMidlander

Unlikely. 12 power went into this.
https://youtu.be/1xOOFCltZuc
(5:40 for fcob cs)

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Phoenix the result of Eorzea's prayers for rebirth after the invocation of the Twelve failed? My knowledge of CoB stuff is lacking.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Phoenix the result of Eorzea's prayers for rebirth after the invocation of the Twelve failed? My knowledge of CoB stuff is lacking.

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That's what gave form to it, but the power itself was largely the remnants from the attempt to summon the power of the Twelve. Or at least so I've been told...

That specific is a little murky.

We know that:

• Louisoix tried to summon the strength of the Twelve, planning to kill himself at the ritual's peak so that they couldn't then manifest physically as primals.
• The aether brought by Tupsimati, infused with the prayers from all who took the pilgrimage, was not enough power to resist Bahamut
• Bahamut interrupted the cast and broke the ritual, leaving free-floating aether everywhere
• The free-floating aether reacted with the prayers of everyone there that Louisoix would save them
• Focused on Louisoix, the aether reacted with his wish of rebirth for Eorzea, reminding him of the Phoenix
• The aether transformed Louisoix into Phoenix, a new primal.

Some people believe that the remaining energy of the Twelve bestowed upon Louisoix his new power, some believe that the Twelve were completely uninvolved because if the aether was free-floating and reacting to prayer, it's likely that little of the Twelve's energy remained from the interrupted ritual. Why exactly Louisoix sees the spires of light from the first ritual around him as he awakens - I have no idea.

I really don't know why people are trying to rationalize the power of the Warrior of Light in to simple, normal terms.

"They can't be a primal."
"They're not special."
"They only have power because of The Echo."
"It's all because of Hydaelyn."

While I'll say the first one is far-fetched (but not impossible), we'll just set that one aside for later.

1) They have, at every opportunity, proven that they are not just a normal adventurer or even like other Echo users. The Archons and Ysayle all have The Echo, but they pale in comparison to the power of the Warrior of Light.

2) The Echo, which does grant great power, cannot be the only reason why the Warrior of Light had managed to, essentially single-handedly, brought low every primal they've faced. All of the other Archons have The Echo, but, as far as combating primals goes, they lack the might to fight them. The Echo appears to only protect them from tempering.

3) Midgardsormr removed the Blessing of Light and blocked the Warrior of Light from Hydaelyn. However, did this remotely diminish the Warrior of Light's seemingly extraordinary fount of power? Nope. Still defeated Ravana, Bismark, and Two Ascians without it.

Then, surprising an immortal dragon who has existed for eons, the Warrior of Light managed to break through Midgardsormr's barrier and reconnect with the Blessing of Light. I'm pretty sure a mortal impressing the father of all dragons is something that doesn't happen all too often.

So, alright, perhaps the Warrior of Light isn't a primal, but the they succeeded in surpassing extraordinary long ago. Thordan VII saw it as he was dying, and, whatever it was, not even The Ascians have managed to pin down how to deal with it. These Extreme Primals? They appear to be tests to see if the Warrior of Light has a limit. So far, they haven't found it.

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Originally Posted by Eisen-Zorn

3) Midgardsormr removed the Blessing of Light and blocked the Warrior of Light from Hydaelyn. However, did this remotely diminish the Warrior of Light's seemingly extraordinary fount of power? Nope. Still defeated Ravana, Bismark, and Two Ascians without it.

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Well, in the interest of fairness, we had regained one of our Crystals before that. So while we certainly weren't anywhere near the height of our power, we had re-established a (very) tenuous connection.

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Originally Posted by Eisen-Zorn

I really don't know why people are trying to rationalize the power of the Warrior of Light in to simple, normal terms.

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There's a link in the process that you're missing. It isn't that The Echo grants us superhuman power, it's that we've amassed our god-like power through The Echo.


As for the removal/reactivation of the Blessing, you see exactly what happens there. Midgardsormr created for himself a new body from our crystals, which in turn deactivated the Blessing of Light. It stands to reason that by that time we're strong enough ourselves to handle what we had to (we haven't needed Hydaelyn's intervention since Ultima, I'll add). We eventually restore power to our crystals by visiting places/accomplishing feats attributed to each element, and once all six are again lit, Hydaelyn reestablishes the connection--Bridge: Stable--WoLight-weapon: Ready.

Jury is still out on what Thordan VII truly thought of us as the light faded from his eyes. It's my current belief that, like the heroes of eld being elevated to godhood, so too are we, but in a more literal sense, I suppose, and by Hydaelyn's grace.

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Originally Posted by Eisen-Zorn

1) They have, at every opportunity, proven that they are not just a normal adventurer or even like other Echo users. The Archons and Ysayle all have The Echo, but they pale in comparison to the power of the Warrior of Light.

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Actually, last I checked, only Minfilia and Ysayle have the echo, none of the Scions do (which is why they didn't go help fight the primals themselves).

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Originally Posted by Bloody

Actually, last I checked, only Minfilia and Ysayle have the echo, none of the Scions do (which is why they didn't go help fight the primals themselves).

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That's correct. The only other Echo Users besides us three were all killed by Livia sas Junes in the Raid on The Waking Sands. The only survivors weren't echo users.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

That's correct. The only other Echo Users besides us three were all killed by Livia sas Junes in the Raid on The Waking Sands. The only survivors weren't echo users.

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Really? I thought the others also had The Echo. I must have been confused because I could have sworn that the others, like Thancred, managed to avoid tempering because they had The Echo. Which begs the question, if nobody else has The Echo, why are they constantly looking for primals and running in to dangerous places that would very likely get them tempered?