The Red Scrip Fix doesn't help much.

Square, please take a look at the main problem people are having. It was never the slow rate of obtaining red scrips, it was the scarity of materials and the favor system. It still takes 11 hours of 100% RNG based gathering to use up a weeks supply of favors which is far too much time, not only that but the fact that it relies on RNG doesn't really work well and even when you're lucky enough to get a concealed node you only get 1 material. The cost of gear is also still too high.

Here's what we, the community would like to see in a hotfix 1 week (11th August) from now:

Instead of 1 Red Gatherers Token giving you 5 favors, have 1 Blue Gatherers Token give you 1 favor.

Significantly increase the spawn rate of concealed nodes.

Instead of the mats such as Moonbeam Silk requiring 1 Red Crafters Token, change it to require 1 Blue Crafter's Token. HQ versions should require 3 Blue Crafters Token instead of 3 Red Crafters Token.

Instead of the mats such as Moonbeam Silk requiring 10 Ooids and 10 plants, change it to 3 of each. For HQ versions, change it from 3 to 1.

Halve the cost of all red scrip gear. If an item costs 20 Red Gatherer or Crafter tokens, this should now be 10.

Please take these into consideration as this is what the community wants.

Stop saying 'we' as though you mean everyone. You mean you and maybe some others but just say you then let anyone who agree's with you say they too want the same in a reply rather than trying to pretend everyone wants the same as you. Also you should not try to dictate, demand or threaten SE with your deadlines. If you will quit if SE do not hit your deadline then go ahead and quit already, I would prefer SE take their time and balance it right rather than rushing any changes.

I found this odd too, the rate at which we got red scrips was never the issue, it was how expensive the items/gear/favours were using tokens. All this change does now is allow us to grind slightly less. Because the cap remains the same but we're getting roughly twice the scrips per turn in, we hit that cap earlier in the week then have to sit around and do nothing for even longer.

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I was able to hit the cap on reset day last week, so this whole week I've just been catching turn in fish for next week. Now it seems my hoard will carry over to the week after that as well, so technically I don't need to fish red scrip fish anymore.

Like the OP says, the issue was never how long it took us to get the scrips in the first place, it was the cost of items/gear/tools, which is partly a function of the low scrip cap.

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Zitat von Snugglebutt

Stop saying 'we' as though you mean everyone. You mean you and maybe some others but just say you then let anyone who agree's with you say they too want the same in a reply rather than trying to pretend everyone wants the same as you. Also you should not try to dictate, demand or threaten SE with your deadlines. If you will quit if SE do not hit your deadline then go ahead and quit already, I would prefer SE take their time and balance it right rather than rushing any changes.

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Based on posts from multiple relevant forums, most people who engage in conversation about this system want these changes.
I also never said I was going to quit and never threatened anyone.

If you have something to say, please do so without being rude and twisting my words.

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Zitat von LlenCoram

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Crafting Scrips needed some adjustments. The material cost for most items was a terrible ratio for how many scrips it rewarded. You had things like morel salad or marron glace that only gave what, 4-5 scrips less than equips that took dissolvents and ingots?

I'm also disappointed at the lack of adjustments to favors. The amount of time they require for one crafting material is ridiculous.

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Zitat von RiceisNice

Crafting Scrips needed some adjustments. The material cost for most items was a terrible ratio for how many scrips it rewarded. You had things like morel salad or marron glace that only gave what, 4-5 scrips less than equips that took dissolvents and ingots?

I'm also disappointed at the lack of adjustments to favors. The amount of time they require for one crafting material is ridiculous.

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I'll be honest, I haven't touched crafting at all since 3.0 started, so my complaints were purely from a gatherer's point of view. Based on what you said it sounds like they took the fact that crafting would benefit from receiving more scrips then applied it to everyone, but made no other adjustments. I'm all for getting more scrips per turn in, but I still think the whole system needs more adjustments.

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Zitat von Snugglebutt

Stop saying 'we' as though you mean everyone. You mean you and maybe some others but just say you then let anyone who agree's with you say they too want the same in a reply rather than trying to pretend everyone wants the same as you. Also you should not try to dictate, demand or threaten SE with your deadlines. If you will quit if SE do not hit your deadline then go ahead and quit already, I would prefer SE take their time and balance it right rather than rushing any changes.

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When he say's "we" I believe he is meaning crafters and gatherers, but your not a Crafter or a Gatherer xD

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Zitat von scarebearz

...but your not a Crafter or a Gatherer xD

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I think you'll find I am both.

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Zitat von LlenCoram

I'll be honest, I haven't touched crafting at all since 3.0 started, so my complaints were purely from a gatherer's point of view. Based on what you said it sounds like they took the fact that crafting would benefit from receiving more scrips then applied it to everyone, but made no other adjustments. I'm all for getting more scrips per turn in, but I still think the whole system needs more adjustments.

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Capping gathering scrips honestly wasn't a big issue for me. You'd have to hit the nodes a total of 24 times over the course of 7 days. Capping it in one day would be the same as capping out your esotarics in one day. Crafting scrips on the other hand, you had a random turn in for each day, and the cost:reward ratio for most of the crafts were utterly skewed.

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Zitat von Snugglebutt

I think you'll find I am both.

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Just as much as I am a SCH main, derpgoon main, dork kngint main. Unless you're one of those people that don;t use their mains on profile so we have to take your words as it is (which honestly would go both ways then).

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Zitat von RiceisNice

Just as much as I am a SCH main, derpgoon main, dork kngint main. Unless you're one of those people that don;t use their mains on profile so we have to take your words as it is (which honestly would go both ways then).

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Look to the left of my post. Clearly showing gathering class then if want check lodestone on the character, clearly both gathering and crafting classes shown as being some substantially leveled and others in the process of leveling.

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Zitat von Snugglebutt

Look to the left of my post. Clearly showing gathering class then if want check lodestone on the character, clearly both gathering and crafting classes shown as being some substantially leveled and others in the process of leveling.

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Lets see. You have a 59 BTN, a lvl 58 FSH and a level 57 Miner. Oh and half your crafters are at level 50, with none above 51 at the time of your post.

So, you do have some DOL/DOH levelled, but I'd say you don't actually know much/anything about the subject of the topic which this thread is about, which is about gathering favors.

Look at your equipment. Can you even get 470 collectibility on adamantite with your non melded NQ lvl 55 gear?
Have you collected red scrips yet even? No? Then you don't know anything about how long it takes aside from reading OTHER people's posts.

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Zitat von Snugglebutt

I think you'll find I am both.

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Sorry, I will amend my post:

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Zitat von scarebearz

When he say's "we" I believe he is meaning level 60 crafters or gatherers, but your not a level 60 Crafter or Gatherer xD

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Zitat von Snugglebutt

Look to the left of my post. Clearly showing gathering class then if want check lodestone on the character, clearly both gathering and crafting classes shown as being some substantially leveled and others in the process of leveling.

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Right, so you're a gatherer and crafter just as much as I am a main for all DoW and DoM classes. If I am to take this at face value, none of your crafts are at level 56 to even do blue scrips, let alone red scrips. Most of us have both leveled at capps and are frustrated at how the red scrips tokens (that is, spending the red scrips itself) for gathering, and it's interaction with crafting (the favors). Actually none of your gatherers are level 60 either so I don't think you can even reach collectibility for red scrips reliable or favor nodes.

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Zitat von Snugglebutt

Look to the left of my post. Clearly showing gathering class then if want check lodestone on the character, clearly both gathering and crafting classes shown as being some substantially leveled and others in the process of leveling.

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Substantially leveled? Wouldn't that mean that everything is at 60?

@Snugglebutt: I'm sure that you mean well, but I don't know if a person can have a clear perspective on the difficulty of the end-game crafting/gathering situation without having multiple classes at max level. Besides, you can't even unlock red scrips until you are at level 60. If you don't believe that I bring something to the table for this, please check my lodestone. All of my crafters/gatherers are completely and substantially leveled.

The issue with red scrips is that people have to spend a weekly capped currency on a chance that they might obtain tokens to exchange for mats. I don't feel good about having a chance to get some of the 20 toekns needed to start a single craft. It's not worth my time.

4 crafters at 60, 4 at 55+ on the way to 60, 2 gatherers at 60 ....

Every time people say "have faith" or "give it a little longer" I keep finding my limited supply of faith depleted further. By which I mean: this isn't even remotely close to a fix on the problems afflicting crafting and gathering, and it's the only thing they have mentioned. I haven't even seen a whisper of acknowledgement that a substantial number of people hate this system.

Anyone else beginning to believe that SE is not going to do anything else to fix this misery? Because I'm not even sure they're going to acknowledge it exists anymore.

Fishers needed the increased red scrips for turn-ins. I don't have miner or botanist and I haven't been able to cap my red scrips once. I haven't even gotten 450 total red scrips yet because I also try to cap my esoteric tomes every week, and get all my drops from Alexander. I'm also trying to beat Ravana EX. I don't always have a chance to fish during the Tiny Axolotl window, and the weather isn't always right for Thunderbolt eels in the wee hours of the morning in the Dravanian Forelands. Just yesterday I got my first Folklore book so I can finally catch a Loosetongue.

So this change does help some people. It helps fishers.

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Zitat von MysteryNotes

Oh and half your crafters are at level 50, with none above 51 at the time of your post.

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I have had 2 crafts at level 51 for days now, way before posted in here. My response to scarebearz was pointing out a correction when she said I had no crafters or gatherers and now likewise same in response to you when you quoted my comment to scarebearz and got it wrong too so I am correcting you on your comment now also.

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Zitat von tgoodner

Substantially leveled? Wouldn't that mean that everything is at 60?

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Substantially means close to 60 in my opinion else I would of said level capped if already 60.

Snugglebutt,

You've been trying to pass yourself off as a serious crafter/gatherer for a while now so that you can claim your opinion has more weight alone than the dozens of other people complaining. I'm glad to see you're no longer claiming a second alt character that has level 60 crafts.

Add your opinion fine, but I continually see you trying to disregard everyone else as whining when you have no real stake in the crafting/gathering mechanics that are being discussed.

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Zitat von Lorglath

Snugglebutt,

You've been trying to pass yourself off as a serious crafter/gatherer for a while now so that you can claim your opinion has more weight alone than the dozens of other people complaining. I'm glad to see you're no longer claiming a second alt character that has level 60 crafts.

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I have never claimed what I have bolded in your comment. Not once.

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Zitat von Lorglath

Add your opinion fine, but I continually see you trying to disregard everyone else as whining when you have no real stake in the crafting/gathering mechanics that are being discussed.

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Seconded

you havent even made it through the grind necessary for each class from 57 to 60 where leves get useless and you need shitloads of materials for it.

Get over it or get out - if you haven't capped red scrip two weeks a row now and still find this system "fun" - because that's what a game should be, fun - then you can start saying again that "this system is fine" or "needs to be balanced right"

What this system needs is a completely abandonment - not a single crafter or gatherer with a RL job and in their right state of mind does want this system how it is at the moment. And no, that 50% does NOT help at all

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Zitat von Magistrella

What this system needs is a completely abandonment.

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SE will not abandon and remove the system, simple common sense dictates that. They will continue to tweak it, make slight adjustments and balances to the system which in my opinion would be the right thing to do because I want it to be a highly challenging system. If they make too drastic a change when balancing then the challenge will be too heavily reduced and making it not enjoyable to me later. I admit it currently seems to have some flaws still which are in need of tweaks, like for example a slight decrease in material costs from trade-ins and slight adjustment to favor system. I am pretty sure most people would be happy with such changes on top of the most recent changes from last patch.

Added all together those three things then the cost to craft=/=income value from crafting would be adequate and no I do not think SE should allow crafting of BiS DoW/DoM gear which I know some people want but neither I, a lot of raiders or SE does...however crafting BiS DoL/DoH gear I would be okay with. I want more recipes over time but those will come eventually anyways. I want the specialization system to continue to improve and evolve also including specialists getting unique recipes in order to give more gravitas to choosing which to become. I want SE to continue pushing players towards the need for cooperation and working together in crafting/gathering much like they have done with FC workshop crafting in principle.

The problem is that Square is loosing trust quickly. There are a lot of things that should have been fixed with the expansion that were just ignored, and now we're being asked to trust that they'll fix things. Then they roll out a supposed "fix" that shows a lack of understanding what people are going through.

At a certain point, the wait and see approach becomes unacceptable and you'll have what's happening now constantly. Worse, square should worry when this complaining isn't going on because it means everyone has stopped even hoping end-game crafting will come back.

Lorglath, I absolutely agree with you.

Snugglebutt, when you've made it to 60 on a couple classes and actually tried this stuff, start talking. Until then, you have no idea. I've watched half my free company try it -- and every single one of them went from "it's a grind, it's fine" to "this system sucks".

As for specialists getting unique recipes, that will be the kiss of death. Specialists are broken. They're an awful system. They don't improve things as is, and now you want to double down on it?

No, SE isn't going to scrap it. So we're already going on to the 2nd best solution, or 3rd best, or no solution at all. Realistically, I'm expecting no solution at all. If I'm proven wrong, it's great, but I doubt it will happen.

As for crafting BIS ... honestly? I don't see a problem with it. I'd rather see a robust economy with multiple ways to get an excellent gear set then have only one path. I think that would make the game richer, more fluid, and less exclusionary. In short, BETTER.

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Zitat von Snugglebutt

SE will not abandon and remove the system, simple common sense dictates that. They will continue to tweak it, make slight adjustments and balances to the system which in my opinion would be the right thing to do because I want it to be a highly challenging system.

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They have to make some substantial changes because hitting nodes for shards 11 hours a week and getting RNG-based items isn't at all challenging, it's just an un-needed drag.

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Zitat von Joronas

Snugglebutt, when you've made it to 60 on a couple classes and actually tried this stuff, start talking.

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I think I will keep talking, your free to not listen if you think nothing I say on the issue has any merit.

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Zitat von Joronas

As for specialists getting unique recipes, that will be the kiss of death.

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I already know you do not see eye to eye or agree with me on that subject. So it is an agree to disagree issue.

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Zitat von Joronas

As for crafting BIS ... honestly? I don't see a problem with it. I'd rather see a robust economy with multiple ways to get an excellent gear set then have only one path. I think that would make the game richer, more fluid, and less exclusionary. In short, BETTER.

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Neither myself, SE plus quite a few raiders agree with you on that and for good reasons. Not just because SE dislikes how quickly it would allow for clearing content, the over-reliance of people buying the required ilvl to bypass too much content in conjunction with clear selling problem which leads to far too many over-geared but incompetent raiders plus the undermining of the raid obtained gear itself.

In my opinion (of which I am not alone in) crafted DoW/DoM gear should be limited to helping new players or non-raiders start their raiding career at the bottom of the ladder and work their way up through doing the raids and obtaining the upgrades through that ideally. That's how I would like it to be/remain. But like I said on the other hand I see no major problems with crafting DoL/DoH BiS gear since it does not suffer from the same amount of issues BiS DoW/DoM crafting would have given both gathering and crafting is a solo activity in general.

Having an untradable mat that drops in Savage Alex to create an untradable i210 piece with no materia slots solves all your problems.

Bam.

Note: It wouldn't require hardcore raiders to also be crafters just to progress further as it can easily be a replacement instead.

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Zitat von DarthBuzzer

Note: It wouldn't require hardcore raiders to also be crafters just to progress further as it can easily be a replacement instead.

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No, but it would require hardcore crafters to also be raiders in order for it to be relevant.

Now if they introduced a "crafting request" mechanic like there is with melding requests, this would be awesome.

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Zitat von PirateCat

No, but it would require hardcore crafters to also be raiders in order for it to be relevant.

Now if they introduced a "crafting request" mechanic like there is with melding requests, this would be awesome.

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Oh I totally agree, I just wanted to suggest something that no one can possibly dislike.

Well, I raid too.

I find "bypassing" content to be a silly argument. The content is self-gating. You HAVE to do it to unlock more. You seem to be saying that you think that everyone should have to run the same thing repeatedly in order to do something else? I consider that to be ridiculously silly. And it just gets SILLIER when you consider raids that are not current-release.

I find the "skill" argument to hold no water at all. It doesn't matter if you have perfect gear at max ilvl, you will still fail if you aren't competent at your class. That's what mechanics are for.

My belief is that those who don't want to have crafted gear matter at endgame just want to claim that they are better then those who haven't spent fifty+ hours running the exact same content over and over again. And I don't care. I don't actually expect crafted gear to be equal to alex savage drops -- the mindset that only raiders matter is too ingrained. But I expect it to be useful, instead of joke gear.