Cannot decide between Warrior and Dark Knight

I had a level 50 warrior on a different character and I loved the lore and the feel and theme of the class, and it looks even better at 52+

On the other hand, Dark Knight looks really interesting and competitive also.

I haven't tanked in this game in a long time, but I wouldn't mind giving it a go. I know first I need to level Glad to 34 regardless for cross class.

That said: what do you think?

Warrior or Dark Knight? Which is better for solo world roaming? Which is better for 4 man dungeons? Which is better for duty finder and no premades? What's better overall in terms of all aspects (Questing, FATE, Farming, Desireableness, Group Support, etc..)

If your not sure between Warrior and Dark Knight, then the choice is obvious, Paladin.

I would never level Paladin and having to take Gladiator as far as 34 is almost a death sentence to leveling a tank at all but awareness is required.

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Originally Posted by Krissey

I would never level Paladin and having to take Gladiator as far as 34 is almost a death sentence to leveling a tank at all but awareness is required.

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I hope you're not talking about the skill.

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Originally Posted by Krissey

On the other hand, Dark Knight looks really interesting and competitive also.

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Interesting? Yes. Competitive? No, not really, sadly.

If you like the look and feel of what DRK has over WAR, go with that. But go in knowing that DRK is suffering from a lot of problems right now that really hold it back, and stop it from being viable for endgame content (but you should be able to get through 4 mans and basic story content just fine, you can do that with pretty much anything). While I have no doubt that these problems will be handled in time, right now, I wouldn't make the choice to play DRK based on viability.

And they're not AS behind as people here will have you believe. They certainly need a bit of help, but there's not as bad as 2.0 Warriors.

Just throwing this in there. One prime reason I gave up DRK for WAR is that their DPS rotation was just so mindless. At least with WAR we get abandon/uncontrollable and fel cleave, which is fun as hell.

That and in my own opinion, DRK suffers button bloat. They have lots of buttons and options, but none of them ever feel like they're doing much.

Sounds like people are saying go with warrior. Also warrior seems straight forward. Keep up your buffs and debuffs, and you get one big single target and one big AOE move per stance and mitigate or pop cooldowns as needed.

The Dark Knight stances and Mana cooldowns and dark arts and so forth doesn't seem intuitive. It seems confusing and a little overwhelming, on paper anyway. I doesn't really make sense to me and I figured I would need to play it to get it.

Playing WAR requires a bit of planning to make sure you can inner beast at the right times.
Otherwise it's still a pretty simple class. You go between 3 combos basically alternating. You can have a lot of fun since you get some big numbers hits and lots of focus on maximizing that.

DRK isn't terribly complex either. Mitigation is mostly hitting the button, like Paladin. There's just a caveat in that you sto use Dark Arts to buff certain skills. That means you need to make sure you keep your mana up.

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Originally Posted by Rbstr

There's just a caveat in that you sto use Dark Arts to buff certain skills. That means you need to make sure you keep your mana up.

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Which, more often than not against boss fights, leads to you just using nothing but Syphon Strike as if you were a 2.0 Paladin.

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Originally Posted by Krissey

Sounds like people are saying go with warrior. Also warrior seems straight forward. Keep up your buffs and debuffs, and you get one big single target and one big AOE move per stance and mitigate or pop cooldowns as needed.

The Dark Knight stances and Mana cooldowns and dark arts and so forth doesn't seem intuitive. It seems confusing and a little overwhelming, on paper anyway. I doesn't really make sense to me and I figured I would need to play it to get it.

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I didnt find DRK overly complex. I just found that it had a lot of redundancies. Nothing had that "oomf" I've come to associate with tank classes in MMO. Just felt floaty and all over the place.

If you're just looking to have fun and not worry about the meta and bla bla bla here's what you need to do. Answer this question: Do you like a big Axe or a Big Sword? That answer will tell you what to play—the rest is irrelevant.

I have both a Warrior and a Dark Knight, both are good I think people are exaggerating about how bad they are, I really like my Warrior but my DRK looks great and so far I'm not having any kind of issues with it however I agree that is a little bit difficult to get used it at the beginning, just go with the one that looks better for you, I decided to go with my DRK because Im having fun, also all new classes are going to have changes to address their mayor issues so nothing to worry about.

Warrior feels better.
Warrior has burst self healing.
Warrior has better burst offense.
Warrior has better utility.
Warrior has better mitigation.
DRK has better AOE.
DRK has better damage while tanking (ignoring War changing stances)
DRK has better sustain self healing.
DRK has more powerful sustained emnity.
DRK has better mobility.
DRK has more damage off GCDs.

I went through the same ordeal. I have a WAR since 2.0 but really liked the look of the DRK. Played DRK up to... 48? Or something like that. Then did some reading and also made the maths. I stuck with WAR.

Basically if you think of tank busters (although it depends on how often they happen) in an ideal scenario where you have all your CDs, WAR gets more effective health through healing and mitigation than DRK. If the tank buster was a magical one (as people say DRK is a magic tank due to Dark Mind) the WAR still pulls slightly ahead, but you could consider them on par because the difference in minimal.

And with WAR you don't have to worry about the mana management.

The thing where DRKs shine right now is tanking multiple mobs. However while WAR is slightly more annoying in that regard with having to aim Overpower (and anyway, while you are running and gathering the mobs you can just use Flash), WAR can definitely do AOE tanking just fine.

Stance dance with WAR is fun btw. I know that Aery isn't really a challenging dungeon, but hey, I was tanking a boss using Deliverance, kept aggro and the healer said I wasn't hard to heal at all. Of course you should do something like that in the right encounter...

Dark Knight is the most fun I've had in a long time on an MMO, but it is both not without it's flaws (some are just... wtf) and I'm only running dungeons atm.

The ability bloat is very real, and while I can use every ability without much issue (thank you gaming mouse) I still look at Abyssal Drain and wonder if I'll every actually use it.

That being said, I don't think I can ever leave this class solely because of the amount of off GCD abilities we have. With some luck on parry it doesn't feel like we ever stop attacking.

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Originally Posted by Kiteless

Interesting? Yes. Competitive? No, not really, sadly.

If you like the look and feel of what DRK has over WAR, go with that. But go in knowing that DRK is suffering from a lot of problems right now that really hold it back, and stop it from being viable for endgame content (but you should be able to get through 4 mans and basic story content just fine, you can do that with pretty much anything). While I have no doubt that these problems will be handled in time, right now, I wouldn't make the choice to play DRK based on viability.

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Hmm. This is interesting as I don't believe it's based on anything other than opinion. Could you explain or post a fact or two on how you came to this conclusion?
Aka: Drk is doing great

war appears to be mega OP right now. either get on board asap or forget about it since it will likely get some nerfs. a solid war can easily outdps a typical decent bard.

I have another question. I'm a lvl 60 Paladin and I'm currently trying the DRK, I'm really curious about that class.

But for now (level 33 or something, just the beginning), DRK feels exactly as a PLD. I mean, we have Flash, we have the 3-hits combo, the MP combo, the shield oath, and the 3 shields strikes... I can do almost exactly the same actions in the same order. The DPS stance and MP managing aren't really special for now...

I see a lot of people hesitating between WAR and DRK, but is it worth it for a PLD to play the DRK? (I don't plan on leveling my WAR) Is it fun? Challenging? New? I'm not talking about "competitive", I have my PLD for that while waiting for a patch. Oh, and is there good animations later? (PLD dosn't have a lot) Right now, watching my character swinging this huge sword feels really clumsy and I hope we will get some cool moves later...

PLD and DRK start to feel very different about level 45 or so, and keep becoming more different. I played PLD up to 50 in ARR, went DRK for HW and I'm having a blast. DRK moves into much more of an enjoyable class when you get Soul eater and Delirium and start to add Dark Arts, meaning you now have to manage your MP as well as dots, enmity and dps. You also get a load more oGCD offensive abilities which you'll want to juggle and have as much uptime as possible, meaning a bit more of an interesting time staring at the bosses face whilst they wail on you.

The animations are good, perhaps a little too flashy, but they're certainly more interesting than PLD used to be (not tried post patch).

^ When it comes to self mitigation the buttons are basically the same. Aerya all the way to 50, excluding Dark Mind.

Funny how people say Warrior OP. I don't see groups dropping PLD's for double warrior. Not that I don't mind the praise for War :P

Dark Knight doesn't start to stand out for itself until level 45 when you get Dark Arts. There are some fun abilities along the way, but that's when you start to feel the class.

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Originally Posted by Hundred

^ When it comes to self mitigation the buttons are basically the same. Aerya all the way to 50, excluding Dark Mind.

Funny how people say Warrior OP. I don't see groups dropping PLD's for double warrior. Not that I don't mind the praise for War :P

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Because it's pld thats OP...we just don't put up pretty numbers in burst damage, but do it through dot on single targets, so we don't get as much attention. ;D

I made a video of all the Dark Knight abilities that may help you. Personally, I look for this type of video when choosing jobs in games like FFXIV, as I like to know what skills do and how they look.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VOJncaYam8

I will gladly answer any questions about the skills if you have them!

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Originally Posted by Hundred

^ When it comes to self mitigation the buttons are basically the same. Aerya all the way to 50, excluding Dark Mind.

Funny how people say Warrior OP. I don't see groups dropping PLD's for double warrior. Not that I don't mind the praise for War :P

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The only time you are a near a Paladins tankyness is around level 30 when you have rampart and lack a shield. Things begin there to change more and more every level band. A 60 paladin is significantly tankier than a Drk--while lacking the Drks OGCD offense, aoe damage, and mobility. Dark Knights are not, as some would say, inferior character classes, they infact are quite fantastic (despite needing some bug fixes and small rebalances), but you are absolutely fooling yourself or know nothing about how paladins work if you think you are touching on paladin tankyness.

Well I currently love the dark knight the way they are atm but a few change I would like to have but I will talk about how dark knight is compare to other class's

Paladin - I play as a paladin for over 7 months they have extreme high defend skill and able to reduce lots of damage over the course of the fight giving the healer a easier time

Warrior - switched to warrior for a year, warrior has good dps compare to paladin and they have good aoe skill like overpower they can hold great number of enemy without worrying of losing Aggro they have extreme high burst Aggro any warrior should know what I am talking about, the unchain combo

But warrior has a very big flaw they take too much damage and their hp and restore boost does not help the healer as well it only help wasting the healer mana due to over healing

Dark knight - this is a new class atm I am lvl 60 and I can confirm that dark knight is not as good as paladin and not as good as warrior but however dark knight is better then both.....

The reason is dark knight is good is because their aoe enmity skill require mana and they also does damage so they increase even more enmity unlike paladin flash and just like the warrior but warrior use TP so it will drain them to 0 and they can't do anything after that but not for dark knight they still have a full TP and ready for action

Let talk about damage, dark knight has dark side increase damage by 15% this skill make the above statement even more obvious that aoe dark knight wins and they have dark arts increase some of their potecy to 450 over and over again and is all base on how you manage your mana

warrior win the dps check due to them having that berserk and maim and also they reduce enemy slash resis by 15%

paladin has sword oath basically shit and ok not that shitty just not amazing compare to the 2 so you get the ideal and they have fight for flight for 20 Sec or so which is increase 30% damage noting special

So in he long run if you can't choose warrior or paladin just go dark knight they are not as shitty as people say is pretty much over reacted by fan boys

Really I see nothing wrong with dark knight each class has its role and its strength you can't just take what make a class strong and put it to another class if they buff dark knight too much then the other 2 class will be noting but shit I like the current dark knight no issue with it so far

If I would like a change I would recommend threefold to be changed to is the amount of mana restore to be higher then the current amount

Sword Oath is incredibly powerful. Paladins in 2.0 had very poor potency attacks in their combo which was what held back their OT damage. According to Xeno, one single target his Paladin co-tank is keeping up with his damage when either are OT. Sword Oath adds 50 potency to every hit--its a separate line in the combat log and scales like an ability.

Most swords are on a 2.0 delay, or 30 attacks per minute. From sword oath we have 1500 potency per minute (3x fel cleaves). FoF over its duration equates to roughly 10% damage (vs darksides 15%), and that leaves you with base potency attacks. Goring blade is superior to scourge, and royal authority while not better than dark side + soul eater, can be spammed unlike the former (which drops dramatically to 260 when not dark arted).

DRK still is better than paladin in damage--closer to War, but I don't think the differences are what you sighted, but more so the 2000+ off GCD potency a DRK has every minute or so between free clicks.

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Originally Posted by Janhyua

paladin has sword oath basically shit and ok not that shitty just not amazing compare to the 2 so you get the ideal and they have fight for flight for 20 Sec or so which is increase 30% damage noting special

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Need to call lies here. You say you played a paladin for months but forget we get a trait for FoF to 30 seconds? Every paladin knows that since it lines up with 2 CoS and and 2 Spirits (with how the server refreshes buff time, smashing both will let you smash it again as it comes off gcd with the buff effect). Any long term paladin calling sword oath shit was kind of the first hint, since its easy to understand how much damage it racks up over time.

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Originally Posted by Faytte

Need to call lies here. You say you played a paladin for months but forget we get a trait for FoF to 30 seconds? Every paladin knows that since it lines up with 2 CoS and and 2 Spirits (with how the server refreshes buff time, smashing both will let you smash it again as it comes off gcd with the buff effect). Any long term paladin calling sword oath shit was kind of the first hint, since its easy to understand how much damage it racks up over time.

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You do notice I never mention the off gcd for dark knight as well right?

And dude I have haven played my paladin for A YEAR I have playing my warrior I only use my paladin for shit and giggle if needed who cares about the trait when I can just bring my warrior to do the damage if I am needed to OT lol and second if I am needed to be MT I will bring my paladin in to the fray instead of my warrior I am still good at both of my class thank you so bugger off

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Originally Posted by Janhyua

Snipf

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You are writing posts and engaging in a debate without any clear understanding of the class it seems. You probably just googled FoF and saw 20 seconds would be my guess. In any case, your posting--it opens up your points to criticisms, for which there are many. In 2.0 war and paladin OT damage was neck and neck even onto t13 (blue gatr posts on this). Wars put up pretty numbers, Paladins smaller numbers are much stronger. In 3.0 wars gained an offensive stance and stack usage, paladins got 340 and 540 potency attacks. So far according to Xeno (a VERY well known warrior and mechanic theorist) pal single target dps more or less seems on par with war as OT. Flashy? Heck no! But paladin isn't a flashy class (unless you are doing an AoE pull--hue hue hue).

You're weaving a lot more shit in as a Dark. Hit a cooldown? Throw in Plunge, next get that DA in,finish up that combo but put reprisal in there too, and fuck throw in Dark passenger because we've got time.Drop your scourge in but don't forget Salted Earth. Pop up the blood price because its time for DA -dark mind, take off Grit and go in with DA soul eater combo in short demand, pop Blood weapon.
Just pray for TP. If you like to press different buttons I would say Drk has that more then Warrior or maybe its just because its new.

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Originally Posted by Faytte

You are writing posts and engaging in a debate without any clear understanding of the class it seems. You probably just googled FoF and saw 20 seconds would be my guess. In any case, your posting--it opens up your points to criticisms, for which there are many. In 2.0 war and paladin OT damage was neck and neck even onto t13 (blue gatr posts on this). Wars put up pretty numbers, Paladins smaller numbers are much stronger. In 3.0 wars gained an offensive stance and stack usage, paladins got 340 and 540 potency attacks. So far according to Xeno (a VERY well known warrior and mechanic theorist) pal single target dps more or less seems on par with war as OT. Flashy? Heck no! But paladin isn't a flashy class (unless you are doing an AoE pull--hue hue hue).

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Whatever I am not as nerdy as you I only post with what is on my head I don't remember all of the trait on the get go cause why do I care it works and that all that matter

I will MT as paladin because that will make my raid happy
I will OT as warrior that will make my raid happy
I will dark knight whatever hell I want my raid will be sad but I am raid leader

Long story short I am not going to use a class to push it to make it do what is not designed to do why do that when you can just switch class all tank gear are shared I know you try to defend paladin but face it when it comes to damage warrior and dark knight far better

Paladin strong point is not the damage is their defend cool down and their shield

But when it come to be a OT you will mostly be doing damage then taking any damage in most cases unless T13 I don't have any problem with any other fight so if you plan to be a OT then go warrior

Case close

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Originally Posted by Hundred

You're weaving a lot more shit in as a Dark. Hit a cooldown? Throw in Plunge, next get that DA in,finish up that combo but put reprisal in there too, and fuck throw in Dark passenger because we've got time.Drop your scourge in but don't forget Salted Earth. Pop up the blood price because its time for DA -dark mind, take off Grit and go in with DA soul eater combo in short demand, pop Blood weapon.
Just pray for TP. If you like to press different buttons I would say Drk has that more then Warrior or maybe its just because its new.

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I am guessing you are targeting me I am just going to say

I am only born last week as a dark knight but again warrior still has over all dps compare to dark knight and also I did all what you just mention it still not as impressive as it should have been but hey I am still a dark knight and will be for the next 6 months just like what I did on my 2 previous class

I love someone that doesnt understand the classes, mechanics etc chooses to come debate them, gets angry when their points are picked apart, and has the audacity to say 'case closed' like you made some kind of scientific point.

Pals are the best at certain types of mitigation. They actually OT as well as a Warrior--something you seem to not understand because I assume you see big Warrior numbers and don't understand how dps is calculated (both pal and war right now can parse over 900 on a target dummy). Both put up good debuffs as OT. Paladin actually has more free time to use clemency in a pinch.

Being an OT is about providing maximum utility to the raid--that is, the -10% damage on key mechanics and whatever else you can do. FOLLOWING that-damage is 'nice', but not why you pick off tanks. In 2.0, pal and war OT dps was within a few % of each other, and it seems to be the same so far in 3.0 (Single Target, but how many raids had many chances for Multi Target to matter?).

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Originally Posted by Faytte

I love someone that doesnt understand the classes, mechanics etc chooses to come debate them, gets angry when their points are picked apart, and has the audacity to say 'case closed' like you made some kind of scientific point.

Pals are the best at certain types of mitigation. They actually OT as well as a Warrior--something you seem to not understand because I assume you see big Warrior numbers and don't understand how dps is calculated (both pal and war right now can parse over 900 on a target dummy). Both put up good debuffs as OT. Paladin actually has more free time to use clemency in a pinch.

Being an OT is about providing maximum utility to the raid--that is, the -10% damage on key mechanics and whatever else you can do. FOLLOWING that-damage is 'nice', but not why you pick off tanks. In 2.0, pal and war OT dps was within a few % of each other, and it seems to be the same so far in 3.0 (Single Target, but how many raids had many chances for Multi Target to matter?).

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The reason I was angry is because you said I lie about my tank experience
As long as I don't die to any unreasonable situation like I forget to pop my cool down or anything all I am saying is overall which class is best suitable for and what cannot be done all class do all the thing I mention above but each of them perform better then others

But you also need to take it consideration that I haven 60 my warrior and paladin which I will in the next coming weeks

1) Dont care why you were angry, I still think you lied. No offense?
2) Good tanks understand how their mechanics work. After seeing a post where you cherry picked or didnt understand mechanics, I can surmise something about if you are a good tank or not.
3) Your intention to level up other classes means nothing, I don't see why I would take it into consideration? I'm leveling all three tanks, and later will level ninja and monk. This is not WoW where I care that 'my class' is better than others, because if it so happens DRK is buffed, or War, or Pal, or whoever--I can swap a weapon and change to that class.

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Originally Posted by JonnyBigBoss

I made a video of all the Dark Knight abilities that may help you. Personally, I look for this type of video when choosing jobs in games like FFXIV, as I like to know what skills do and how they look.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VOJncaYam8

I will gladly answer any questions about the skills if you have them!

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Very useful video, thanks! I will try to get to lvl 60 with my DRK to see what it's really worth.

I chose Warrior because I like the Marauder and Warrior storylines, and I always main Warrior/Barbarian/Berserker in every other game. D&D, WoW, Tera, GW2, etc... if it's an RPG and has a bloodlust fighter to pick I will pick it. Also I picked Roegadyn with a Fantasia because they are the most like WoW Orcs it seems.

Strength and Honor friends :D

Speaking of: Is there a Warrior guide anywhere that's up-to-date?

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Originally Posted by Krissey

Sounds like people are saying go with warrior. Also warrior seems straight forward. Keep up your buffs and debuffs, and you get one big single target and one big AOE move per stance and mitigate or pop cooldowns as needed.

The Dark Knight stances and Mana cooldowns and dark arts and so forth doesn't seem intuitive. It seems confusing and a little overwhelming, on paper anyway. I doesn't really make sense to me and I figured I would need to play it to get it.

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There really isn't a whole lot to the dark knight's mp management. Darkside goes down in between trash pulls to let mana recover and during combat they can regain mana through their abilities. The mana drain is meant to enforce a rotation they intend dark knight's to do involving their mana recovery options. That being said, AoE can be problematic at times due to an already diminishing resource. With the right cooldowns its not a problem, though.