Extremely agitated: question about T9

So I just went to do T9 for the first time via DF. I had checked out a video beforehand, but it was so much to remember that I knew it would have to be learned bit by bit as there was no way to remember every mechanic from every phase in one go. Also, keep in mind I'm an i118 DRG for this fight with i130 weapon.

Once in I had made it clear it was my first time and that I need to learn, though they probably knew since I watched cutscene, but just to re-iterate. Someone even said "Let's run it and see how it goes." I was expecting to forget something and die quick, but to my surprise I didn't. Everything went smoothly. I didn't die or even get hit except by anything you have no choice to get hit by like when we stack in the middle to absorb damage from that one attack. So then we get to the golem phase. I was not assigned to be a tank for any of the golems. I was told to kill green golem first, then blue, then red, which I already knew from video. So golems spawn, and since I'm not assigned to tank any I go to attack the green one with others, and no color swap had occurred yet during any of this. Green one is almost dead and all of a sudden a large golem comes up on us from behind, so I knew someone messed up or at least I think it was someone else and not me because I had never touched any other golem except green, and it was blue and red that merged into the super golem. So half the party is dead with only myself and a couple others from green last ones alive.

So here we are ready to go again. Everyone is just standing there not saying anything, then all of a sudden the duty ends and says I was dismissed. Needless to say I was angry considering how good I did for a first attempt and I didn't think I did anything wrong. My assumption was that because I was the only one that had mentioned being new that they just assumed I was the one that messed up without actually seeing who messed up. Afterwards I searched characters on Lodestone in hopes that one of them would be from Leviathan so I could contact them and find out why I was kicked, but it turned out about 5 or 6 of them were from the same FC on Behemoth server, which I won't name due to naming and shaming rule, while other 1 or 2 were from different FCs and servers.

So here I am asking those experienced: Did I do something wrong? I did exactly as I mentioned. Or do you think they mistakenly assumed it was me that messed up?

You fell victim to biased friends abusing their voting power. Nothing new there, happens to me and to people I see a lot.

Doesn't sound like you did anything wrong to me. If they wanted you to tank badly enough to kick you when you didn't tank, they should have spoke up in the beginning and told you to tank.

Crappy people will be crappy people though.

Althought I and other people here usually tell people to tell their party that they are new, I would suggest not saying anything from now on. As long as you are aknowledged with the fight, it is better to act like you absolutely know what do to. :D

Aand nope, I do not think you did anything wrong, maybe low DPS but that really does not matter in that case.

People have this pack mentality, if someone starts a vote kick, the others might follow, even if you weren't the issue. =/ I'm sorry for having such a rude first experience but sadly, you'll find that kind of people often as you venture yourself in that content. That "mistake" was nothing you couldn't fix.

As far as I'm aware, I've never seen a DRG pick up a Golem ... in DF you'd have 2 tanks, each tank takes one and then the WHM would pick up the other one ... so... if they were gonna change it, then they should have let you know ... Otherwise, MT, WHM, BRD pick up them up, as far as I'm aware anyway for the 1 tank strat. You didn't do anything wrong, so don't worry about it. :)

Odds are the healer that had blue and the bard(?) that was supposed to have red got too close to one another while trying to feed and they merged. As for why you were kicked, it was probably a premade trying to DF the last one or two people and you were likely the odd one out. I don't see why they'd kick YOU though, if the golems merged it was on whoever had aggro on the two of them, not you.

Thanks for the input. That's what I figured. I'm not angry now as I even went back and reviewed that part in the video so I know with certainty I didn't do anything wrong. I even reviewed chat to make sure I didn't miss anything telling me to tank one of them. At least I feel better knowing this. I also updated the topic with my average iLv and weapon iLv for anyone curious about DPS as a reason for kick. I also do an optimum DPS rotation.

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Originally Posted by h0tNstilettos

Thanks for the input. That's what I figured. I'm not angry now as I even went back and reviewed that part in the video so I know with certainty I didn't do anything wrong. I even reviewed chat to make sure I didn't miss anything telling me to tank one of them. At least I feel better knowing this.

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Yup you did nothing wrong. If you need a tank for t9 clear feel free to send me a tell. I could use more clears for my achievements :P

Hmm. Well most people consider the DF the learning grounds for older raids so no sense in sticking your neck out to people you will never see again. Just try to learn the fight and perform your role in silence.

On another note whats with the majority of forum posts always being from leviathan players. It must be the most crowded server on ff 14.

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Originally Posted by Lilyanna

As far as I'm aware, I've never seen a DRG pick up a Golem ... in DF you'd have 2 tanks, each tank takes one and then the WHM would pick up the other one ... so... if they were gonna change it, then they should have let you know ... Otherwise, MT, WHM, BRD pick up them up, as far as I'm aware anyway for the 1 tank strat. You didn't do anything wrong, so don't worry about it. :)

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I thought it was standard for a DPS to pick up the Blue Golem? Even in a 2-tank strat. I always pick it up whenever I play DPS (BRD, NIN, DRG, BLM).

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Originally Posted by juniglee

I thought it was standard for a DPS to pick up the Blue Golem? Even in a 2-tank strat. I always pick it up whenever I play DPS (BRD, NIN, DRG, BLM).

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I've run T9 as DRG many times and have never been asked to tank the blue golem. Usually it's the BRD who gets red and WHM who gets blue, as I recall, and then when the green one dies, the tank goes and picks up blue.

If it's DF with two tanks, the two tanks should take green and blue and the BRD or WHM should get red.

Sorry you had a rough first time in T9. Saying that you're new can be good or bad depending on the people, in my experience it's usually good because the party would actually try to talk about any mechanics beforehand especially if something is assigned to your class.

As for picking up a golem, in my experience it's done either by a bard or a blackmage; in the absence of both, either a nin or monk 'coz of their burst damage. Healers aren't told to pick up anything. Then again I play in a Japanese data center so eh.

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Originally Posted by Cyrus-Wallace

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Hahah this is sad but true. I've even seen abusive people start a vote kick against people standing up to them and succeed by the whims of the clueless pack of lambs. Sometimes I question the mental/reading ability of some players.

If what you described is correct, you clearly did not do any mistake there, unless you were actually assigned a golem. Usually a healer will take the initially blue golem, and the bard will take the red one with the more common/better solo tank strat. In df however, one healer should be taking blue, OT (preferably PLD) taking red and green for the MT. What happened out there was that one of the other other players (heal?) lost aggro and managed to fuse his golem into a big one. Now, what I can imagine, is that if it was a pack of friends, he might've pulled some absurd reason like "OMG it was this durgun pulling the aggro off me kick ham!" People go to scary distances to cover their mistakes and protect their ego.

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

I would suggest not saying anything from now on.

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I can't get behind that advice (even you said you urge new players to say that they're new! that shouldn't change!). I understand that people do not want to be harassed but there are many people out there, like myself, who would prefer to know who exactly is new- especially for a fight like t9. I always try to be helpful and offer advice to new players but if nobody speaks up it makes things difficult for me as well.

OP- you did nothing wrong. The onus is on that group and they should be ashamed for kicking you.

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Originally Posted by juniglee

I thought it was standard for a DPS to pick up the Blue Golem? Even in a 2-tank strat. I always pick it up whenever I play DPS (BRD, NIN, DRG, BLM).

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So, basically, here's what it is:

In two tank strategy, your DPS doesnt' pick up an add. The PLD+WAR handle the one the PLD+DPS usually pick up.

In one Tank strategy, like you said, a DPS needs to be willing to pick it up. For the Red Golem, your prioty should be BRD > Any Melee > BLM > SMN. The reason SMN is lowest on this list is because they have the most delayed threatgen - they need to get full DoT's off to pull threat, and a higher-geared WHM will pull threat faster than they might be able to get them up.

BRD is the universally accepted picker-up #2. The reason for this is so they can silence the Blue golem after they recieve the new orders.

A DRG won't tank unless explicity told to. Switching a melee off green is just asking for 2x green golems.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

So, basically, here's what it is:

In two tank strategy, your DPS doesnt' pick up an add. The PLD+WAR handle the one the PLD+DPS usually pick up.

In one Tank strategy, like you said, a DPS needs to be willing to pick it up. For the Red Golem, your prioty should be BRD > Any Melee > BLM > SMN. The reason SMN is lowest on this list is because they have the most delayed threatgen - they need to get full DoT's off to pull threat, and a higher-geared WHM will pull threat faster than they might be able to get them up.

BRD is the universally accepted picker-up #2. The reason for this is so they can silence the Blue golem after they recieve the new orders.

A DRG won't tank unless explicity told to. Switching a melee off green is just asking for 2x green golems.

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Seems I forgot my standard is the JP standard. That said, most of the farm parties I used to join used to do the North tank/spread strat (JP's do the mid tank/sprint method), so I assumed it was the same in the NA/EU servers as well.

For the two tank strats, on spawn, the tanks pick up the Green and Red respectively, and the last one is picked up by a DPS. Blue is always the first to die. Then when they switch colors, it's in priority of Blue > Green > Red. Isn't this how it usually is?

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Originally Posted by juniglee

For the two tank strats, on spawn, the tanks pick up the Green and Red respectively, and the last one is picked up by a DPS. Blue is always the first to die. Then when they switch colors, it's in priority of Blue > Green > Red. Isn't this how it usually is?

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Hmn....

It's been a while since I used that strategy. The reason we used to do it that way is on the off chance we could kill green after the orders were given to switch (Namely, that it would sometimes switch the Green one to the one we were DPS'ign - allowing us to kill it right away...)

Well, I think the way you mentioned was pre-2.3... I could be wrong though. And keep in mind, I speak for myself - this is the strategy I see the most used nowadays.

And Yoshi wonders why fewer people have beaten coil than expected. Some players never cease to amaze and disgust.

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Originally Posted by juniglee

For the two tank strats, on spawn, the tanks pick up the Green and Red respectively, and the last one is picked up by a DPS. Blue is always the first to die. Then when they switch colors, it's in priority of Blue > Green > Red. Isn't this how it usually is?

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In the NA servers these days, the priority is Green > Blue > Red. DPS is generally high enough that Green goes down long before the switch order is given, making sure that there is only ever one Green golem to deal with. This has been the strategy since at least 2.4, since that was when my FC started working on it.

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Originally Posted by LunaHoshino

In the NA servers these days, the priority is Green > Blue > Red. DPS is generally high enough that Green goes down long before the switch order is given, making sure that there is only ever one Green golem to deal with. This has been the strategy since at least 2.4, since that was when my FC started working on it.

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Cool. Good to know. Thanks for the insight!

Sorry to hear that, I also got kicked out from T9 last month from my first run.

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Originally Posted by juniglee

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Masamune also use this strategy.

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Originally Posted by juniglee

Cool. Good to know. Thanks for the insight!

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I'm honestly a little surprised to hear that it's done differently on JP servers! The logic behind killing the Green one first is to prevent Demolish from occurring after the switch happens and the second Green pops up. How do you guys deal with Demolish? I didn't think it could be stunned or silenced (in fact, I know it can't be stunned because I have made desperate stun attempts in botched runs where we got two Greens).

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Originally Posted by LunaHoshino

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T9, T10, T11, T12.

From my little experience, all of them are bit different from the MTQ or Mr. Happy Video.
So that's why even I know boss mechanic or rotation, if I dive DF alone I will screw up at first time until they told me not to do that :p

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Originally Posted by h0tNstilettos

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To be honest, just make a partyfinder for it.

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Originally Posted by LunaHoshino

I'm honestly a little surprised to hear that it's done differently on JP servers! The logic behind killing the Green one first is to prevent Demolish from occurring after the switch happens and the second Green pops up. How do you guys deal with Demolish? I didn't think it could be stunned or silenced (in fact, I know it can't be stunned because I have made desperate stun attempts in botched runs where we got two Greens).

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You can use Fluid Aura on the Green one when it's casting Demolishes. It's not immune to knockbacks. You may be able to Holmgang it as well, but don't quote me on this as I haven't tried using Holmgang on it yet.

I think we've continued going Blue first because Demolish can be easily healed/mitigated, but the Paralysis from Earthshock is not removable. It's easier to heal through Demolish on the off chance it goes off, than to rely on someone to Silence it (assuming DF - where you may end up with 3 Dragoons and 1 Black Mage or something similar). Paralysis also messes up with Sprint, which is the common method used in JP DF to deal with the Phase 2 meteors.

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Originally Posted by juniglee

You can use Fluid Aura on the Green one when it's casting Demolishes. It's not immune to knockbacks. You may be able to Holmgang it as well, but don't quote me on this as I haven't tried using Holmgang on it yet.

I think we've continued going Blue first because Demolish can be easily healed/mitigated, but the Paralysis from Earthshock is not removable. It's easier to heal through Demolish on the off chance it goes off, than to rely on someone to Silence it (assuming DF - where you may end up with 3 Dragoons and 1 Black Mage or something similar). Paralysis also messes up with Sprint, which is the common method used in JP DF to deal with the Phase 2 meteors.

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The logic for killing the blue after the green is that the paralysis effect can be silenced, whereas knocking around a mob is...touchy, at best.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

Hmm. Well most people consider the DF the learning grounds for older raids so no sense in sticking your neck out to people you will never see again. Just try to learn the fight and perform your role in silence.

On another note whats with the majority of forum posts always being from leviathan players. It must be the most crowded server on ff 14.

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It's ok, though the PF is starting to look pretty lackluster though that is expected from ppl taking a break till HW. I can barely find a T9 farm group and yes I know its old content but I'm sure ppl still want to farm it for glamours on their alts and what not and I really want that HA tank chest.

JP server atlest in Tonberry still playing Tank pull Red, Green and DPS pull Blue and focus it down first , maybe because of running method and they don't want to risk with palaysis from Bluegolem while sprint dodging metero maybe? since in Duty someone can easily messup slience or pushback ( my friends miss pushback cuz of his low accuracy :D ) so They rather healing through Demolishes and putting blue out of misery as fast as they can.

First time after I watch MTQ T9 guide and going in and then seeing MT tank mid ......... I'm doom

But ya in Tonberry still using mid tank and kill blue first.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

The logic for killing the blue after the green is that the paralysis effect can be silenced, whereas knocking around a mob is...touchy, at best.

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Yes, but in a DF situation where you end up with no silencers, it's probably easier to have everyone on the same page killing the blue one first. Knocking around can be dangerous if done wrongly (ie. melees getting cleaved), but with echo it's not as risky as having people get paralyzes, and subsequently meteors placed incorrectly while sprinting. The JP servers primarily cater to DF first. Although I haven't done T9 for a while, so perhaps the Green first method is better in PF parties XD

Or maybe one of their static came online and wanted to join, and they wanted to leave raid and re-enter it with that member. How to leave DF without a penalty? Kick someone then leave after.

I don't say, that it's a correct way how the things should be done, but still a possibility.

A) Odds are u were too cautious, and there group was parsing you, and your dps was too for ur current gear+echo.
Is probably good idea to parse ur self to see ur performance vs group. But u are new, dps is low on progression.

B) group was just been idiots....more likely the reason

From what you've said, sounds like you didn't do anything wrong. A group who makes a melee (other than a NIN due to lack of BRD, since they have a silence) tank a golem is honestly just stupid due to a melee's single target dps being higher than BRD, SMN, or BLM. I am under the assumption that you: stacked for Thermionic Beam, placed red/yellow meteors on the edges of the arena, were within melee range for Lunar Dynamo, spread out for Meteor Streams, didn't make the tank move towards the wall for Raven's Dive, and placed the green meteor (if you got one) in one of the middle circles. They likely kicked you for any of these reasons:

1) Playing the blame game and blaming the mess up on the DRG (still annoys me that loldrg is still a thing). Was probably the WHM taking the blue golem too close to the red golem and Magnetism likely fused it with the red.
2) You're dps was "low". Not even a valid reason to kick regardless due to harassment rules and ToS regarding third-party software. Also you're new so naturally you're gonna have low dps and also dps is usually just low in general in T9 because of all the breaks in fighting.
3) They wanted to leave because as Valkyrie said, a raid group member got online. Honestly they shouldn't have been using DF for progression in the first place and should've used PF. They were probably afraid of kicking someone they got through PF and figured that they would never meet a random from DF again.

So basically people were being egotistical jerks. Imo, the best way for someone to learn/clear T9 is through a PF, not DF. The farthest I've ever seen a DF group get was Heavensfall and then die right as it started and most of the time DF groups don't get past second set of meteors.

PF -> "T9 learning party! Experienced players welcome as well!" -> pray you get people who will stick around.

DF is nice for most content, but for T9 you generally won't see much progress with it. Even if you do, the group will likely abandon and you'll have to start all over again.

Anyway, it doesn't sound like you did anything wrong, someone in that FC likely wanted to pass the blame and then the rest of them got you kicked. In DF you're defaulted 2 tanks, one takes the green, one takes the blue, and the BRD/NIN takes the red. You burn the green asap, switch to the red (who will become blue), kill that, then kill the red. What you do from here for the next set of meteors is dependent on the group, though I've had the most success with the spread method.

Try again with PF, be patient (doesn't usually fill on your first go), and good luck.

Hiya, please send me a tell in game when you're online. I would like to discuss a static with you! I'm usually on most of the day, so feel free to contact me whenever you're able to!

Haha i seriously hate the vote kicks in the game.
I was running t10 a day ago with an fc member to get his clear. There was a whm who d/cd right before the fight so we all ended up waiting. Suddenly someone vote dismisses him and im like wait hold on ppl he might come back. But ofc ppl just mashed yes so i waited for the clock to countdown. The whm returned with 10 secs to go and then BAM he got kicked for a simple d/c.
Then everyone started to leave one by one then whm re Qs in progress and goes like wtf happened. I was like they kicked you so we all ended up vote abandoning it.
Well that was waste, if only ppl could be more patient in df i swear.

Got caught up and read the replies. :p

For anyone mentioning DPS, it wasn't my DPS. I do an optimum DPS rotation for DRG (minus Mercy Stroke, which I need to get from Marauder), meaning I put out the max most possible DPS for i118 DRG going by rotation, minus that one ability that is used when enemy below 20% HP. I doubt I was kicked for Mercy Stroke since it can only be used anyways when enemy below 20%. But obviously some higher geared DPS will be putting out more, but even for my iLv that is more than plenty for T9. We got to phase 2 in less than 2 minutes.

For those from Leviathan mentioning a static, if our FC does not form one I'll definitely look into a static. Thank you for the offer. ^_^ What I mean is that our FC was mostly dead, but last night we were talking with a friend's FC and decided we were going to merge. They have raid groups going like we use to have when we had more members. I was doing DF because I figured even if we disbanded I would still get the fight down bit by bit over multiple queues. Didn't feel like doing PF and waiting an hour for party to fill as I have done that far too many times. Besides, DPS queues were almost instant last night on my server.