Fix Sumnmoner

Make the Summoner a hybrid Summoner/Elementalist specializing in Massive AoE Bursts with solid Single Target
Enkindle's 300s cool down is to long for the amount of damage it does and should be reduced to 120s

Make Summoner like WoW Elementalist Shaman

And rename summoner to Black Mage while you're at it SE!

If they're going to do ANYthing to Summoner, they need to make it a real summoner. Just give them actual summons, or 'avatars' of the primals that fight along side you and drain your mana. Not lame tiny lame little pets.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...psqhqoka1j.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...ps5sji45ro.png

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Originally Posted by wylantar

If they're going to do ANYthing to Summoner, they need to make it a real summoner. Just give them actual summons, or 'avatars' of the primals that fight along side you and drain your mana. Not lame tiny lame little pets

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Haven't you ever heard big things come in small packages. Plus with everything that happens on screen would you really want a huge summon fighting along side you. Wouldn't that get confusing, like if you were fighting titan with titan. Also everyone neds to stop comparing 14 to 11, this will never be 11-2. Could the Egis of been designed a bit better, maybe, but do their designs fit into both the games atmosphere and the lore, yes.

They should fix it so that you cannot keep making the same summoner complaint thread every week. That would be most lovely.

I main SMN and do end game coil. On turn 13.
I find it very fun the way it is. Didn't like SMN in 11 as it was more SMN/WHM.
I love my dots. I can only go with the whole change enkindle to 120 seconds idea.

NorthernLadMSP, they could also fix it so that unless you have something constructive to say, you aren't allowed to reply to a thread. ;)

I never said it needed to be FFXI-2. Big summons in FFXI never got confusing in battles. All I was saying is the current models look lame, not even just in comparison to FFXI but every Final Fantasy game in the series. Summoners have always been able to summon massive avatars/Eidolon/Guardian Force/Aeons to fight for them. They have never been a damage over time job. I'd even be happy if their limit break was changed to a big Primal attack if nothing else.

Picori, SMN in FFXI was never meant to be played SMN/WHM and it hasn't been a 'back up healer' in years. The damage they can put out with their avatars is pretty crazy.

don't you all understand even yoshi admite's this class is a huge failure. summoner's pet are tiny and pathetic. summoner can only summon 3 cause that fulfilll role's will the summoner get any pet's no..

if they haven't give ramuh, levithan or shiva egi now then your pretty much shit out of luck. if summoner does not get these pets in the expansion then this make the class even more shitty then already is.


rather it does good dps or not isn't problem "its called a summoner job" and its not a summoner job

lets lay down why summoner-class sucks why it is huge disappointiment to final fantasy fan's all over the world

1: those tiny little claydolls are not what we call "Avataurs" there not majestic there huge disappointiment
2: enkindle is pathetic. only 2 pet's are pet's they use in raiding community. one of them just doesn't get along with the tank very well
3: garuda over shadows ifirit as far as usablity
4: i wont complain about heal and raise sense this class breaks off into scholar root so kinda need be there but fact as summoner. in later parties often yelled at for casting your heal spell. not focusing on dps rotation.

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Originally Posted by wylantar

NorthernLadMSP, they could also fix it so that unless you have something constructive to say, you aren't allowed to reply to a thread. ;)

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That's very true! That would be amazing ;)

If they're gonna fix summoners can they fix bards and dragoons too? I don't want any of them reproducing.

Part of the reason the Summoner sucks is because it plays like an Arcanist with Fester and not a Summoner.
SE should adapt the Summoner from Final Fantasy Tactics Advance to FFXIV

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Originally Posted by wylantar

I never said it needed to be FFXI-2. Big summons in FFXI never got confusing in battles. All I was saying is the current models look lame, not even just in comparison to FFXI but every Final Fantasy game in the series. Summoners have always been able to summon massive avatars/Eidolon/Guardian Force/Aeons to fight for them. They have never been a damage over time job. I'd even be happy if their limit break was changed to a big Primal attack if nothing else..

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Sorry I wasn't directing that at your specifically. I just notice a lot of people claiming, "this is how it was done in 11", and while it isn't limited to, summoner/summons are included in that. Everyone just needs to remember that the jobs differ slightly in each game. In this game Summoners are a DoT class that controls Egis, is that so wrong?

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Originally Posted by Sakurakiss123

don't you all understand even yoshi admite's this class is a huge failure.

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What source indicats that Yoshi-P admits Summoner to be a failure. Was it implimented well, yes, but did the player base react as expected, no.

The best way to create a more "traditional" summoner, would be to make each pet more viable, and not so that titan can only be used for soloing, or if you aren't using garuda, people will bitch at you the whole run. I think building in a reason to force you to switch bets would be great. Maybe have it that Enkindle does big damage but at the cost of that summon for 3 minutes, none of this 5 minute crap, and you have to summon another pet whose enkindle hasn't been used yet.

Summoner is fine how it is it just needs those tweaks, and more summons, which hopefully will come in the expansion.

every time someone makes lvl50 on a summoner no one understands there strife they come on here talk about why it upsets them so . they get flame'd by people then shortly aftered banned fromno one seems understand that these players do love the summoner and its role it has played in final fantasy series. unfortunately summoner class was biggest if not far the worst mistake they ever made in final fantasy 14. amount of players who are unhappy over top's the players who are ok with what's been handed too them now all this time they haven't moved a inch. does squire enix - even care how unhappy the player's who play there their game no? why should they are big company. what the hack do we know other then fact we've made them what they are today by buying every game they released buying there game's ever sense the games came out. i think mostly players love the games more the game dev's anyway. also have remember there not as young as they used to be so getting kinda old and senile. so gaming after 10 has become awful

so what they do enough dps. fact reminds job is called a summoner. and guess what "Its not" it is a epic fail from the start. arcanist supports two different job's so its extremely hard to balance. rolls system in this game as messed up the system. unless squire-enix finds a way to break the holy-trinity summoner probably wont get any new pets.

and you be stuck with those annoying clay dolls . at lvl50 be very unhappy if not angry player

no one understands how summoner's feel having these small pathetic toy-sized ugly things floating around them that so happen the forums. cause unhappiness a-lot of players are feeling cause of way summoner job is at the moment.

Yoshi-P said it numberious of times a "Failed Experiment"

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Originally Posted by Sakurakiss123

Yoshi-P said it numberious of times a "Failed Experiment"

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Really? Haha..omg lol do you have a source? I gotta show this to my friends xD

I think Sakura is mistaking Yoshi's admission in the past that the use of having multiple Jobs coming off ACN is a failure for saying 'SMN is a failure' - which if course has nothing to do with the Job itself and everything to do with the fact the idea of 'multiple Jobs off one class' was broken by the delegation of AP into stats and having a single stat control the effectiveness of that Job.

Having two Job roles from one class was therefore always going to be a problem. But I'm getting off track here...

As far as this thread topic is concerned, it's been stated in the past and I'll restate it again here - there is actually nothing wrong with SMN as it is. The storyline doesn't even allow it - Primals require enormous amounts of aether, far in excess of what one mere adventurer would ever be capable of (even the beastmen require multiple SMN's all evoking at once to summon their Primals). Egis are therefore the story shortcut for being able to summon in Hydaelyn - you're not summoning a Primal but a manifestation of a portion of their power.) Players like the OP just need to stop thinking of the Job through a FFXI-prism and actually accept that each title interprets classes and Jobs differently.

Really, if you're going to be really pedantic a 'traditional' FF-style SMN would just have a summon that was a static image that did it's attack and then disappeared, leaving the SMN to just casts Black Magic to compensate.

Something which I don't think people here would be too happy about if SE actually did implement here either.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

Sorry I wasn't directing that at your specifically. I just notice a lot of people claiming, "this is how it was done in 11", and while it isn't limited to, summoner/summons are included in that. Everyone just needs to remember that the jobs differ slightly in each game. In this game Summoners are a DoT class that controls Egis, is that so wrong?

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Well there's nothing wrong really. Its just not how summoners have always been. So people are disappointed when they finally become a summoner and they just get a little miniature summon that isn't impressive to look at.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

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They could make the summon that did its attack and left just an extra ability on top of what Summoner already has. The class is just missing its core aspect of being a summoner in my opinion, which is big flashy summons. Like I mentioned before if they could make the summoner limit breaks primal. They might intend to do that with the change to limit breaks in the expansion but as it stands its only the 3rd bar of the limit break gauge thats going to be job specific. Also the summons in FFXI were just avatars of the primal summons. They were basically the same thing they are in FFXIV, just looked better and had better abilities.

"Avatars can form pacts that allow adventurers to summon weaker versions of themselves. These "summoned avatars" are only a portion of the avatar's true strength."

If SE really wanted to do it, they could easily fit it into the lore.

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Originally Posted by Sakurakiss123

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Wow, just wow. What makes you think that the peole who are defending the way Summoner is aren't fans of the class as well. And I doubt Summoner is a mistake otherwise you wouldn't see people playing them. Does it have issues, yeah, but are they as bad as most people make them out to be, no. Be honest if the job was called, Tamer, Beast Master, Evoker, Caller, "Puppet Master", would you be this upset? You just don't like that the job is called Summoner, and that it doesn't fit into your idea of one. But all summoners throughout the various games in the series have been different, this one is no exception.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

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I think you are right about the misinterpretation,. While Summoner and Scholar stemming form Arcanist isnt bad, the way it was implimented was a failure. Though i for one hope they try again, learn from your mistakes guys, lol.

And eveything you said abou the Egis I agree with. Hell I even said the same thing in another post, on another thread, lol

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Originally Posted by wylantar

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While it may not be traditional, i like how it is. I can attack for myself and control my pet. while traditional Simmoners may of worked in the 2D games and some 3D games, i think SE is realizing that as the games get more involved, having a character just stand there and summon is no fun. Players want that character to do something else while they are waiting to summon or cant summon. Sorta how they were implimented in 12 and 13, you controlled the summoner and the summon did their own thing until you told them to use their big attack. Plus I think SE wants to make the Job more usable. To be honest in past games of the series, with an actual Summoner job, did you really use summons as often as you might think; main series I mean, I haven't played every sub-game. I know I leveled them and then maybe used summons on occasion, they were rarely my main source of dealing damage, once I got better jobs/cross abilities towards the end game.

I do admit having slightly larger Egis would be nice, since yes it is more traditional. But I personally see no problem with them at their current size. Maybe they are this size so they can be huge in 15, lol. Plus its not like small summons havent existed before either. Also could we maybe say it's Japan and they are obsessed with small cute things, lol.

Summoner in FFXIV ARR is a Summoner in Name Only. What SE designed was an Arcanist with Fester not a Summoner. If SE intended to design a Summoner they would've made it a Elementalist/Summoner and focused the job more on the Summoner and Summon.

I've agreed since day one that this presentation of Summoner is a huge failure. I played SMN for 10+ years in XI, but have absolutely no interest this time. How a game from 2001 managed to pull off Summoner better than this is baffling (and SMN in XI had enough issues already, I mean I was more like a crappy WHM most of the time). SMN in XIV is just a major disappointment, and I'm not sure why they are reluctant to change it.

But here's my biggest gripe...

Our community of players constantly giving SE every possible reason NOT to change it.


If everything was sugar and rainbows and the world magically changed to be however you wanted it to be, would you honestly NOT want to be able to summon pets that looked better than the tiny-crappy Egi's?

If your answer anything but "HELL YES I WANT REAL SUMMONS", gtfo.


So why do we keep (as a community) making EXCUSES for SE to do nothing???

"It wouldn't make sense with the lore of the primals" SO CHANGE THE LORE. ENKIDU IS TECH A SUMMON. OMG LORE TURNED UPSIDE DOWN wut.

"Can you imagine how confusing it would be to have summons running around town or a party of summoners in a raid???" MAKE IT SO PETS CANT BE SUMMONED IN TOWN. SETTINGS > TURN OFF SUMMONED PET ANIMATIONS.

"Summoner would be so OP". DO A GOOD JOB OF DESIGN SO IT ISN'T.

"Garuda's bewbs". Good point.


So lets all stop supporting how crappy this job turned out as a group please and get some REAL summoners up in here. Thanks. They will only listen if we make noise and stop supporting their poor choices.

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Originally Posted by Picori

I main SMN and do end game coil. On turn 13.
I find it very fun the way it is. Didn't like SMN in 11 as it was more SMN/WHM.
I love my dots. I can only go with the whole change enkindle to 120 seconds idea.

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^^^^
Summoner is the best class in the game, if you can't take it don't try, go back to black mage cause we summoners don't need you giving us a bad name.

THANK YOU!

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Originally Posted by Amaranthine

^^^^
Summoner is the best class in the game, if you can't take it don't try, go back to black mage cause we summoners don't need you giving us a bad name.

THANK YOU!

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This again the White Knights have spoken. Stop trying to defend SE's poor design of the Summoner and just admit it doesn't even represent its lore properly.
1st- Enkindle cool down does need to be changed to 120s
2nd- The Summoner's abilities don't even remotely line up with the job lore or its history. The Summoner harnesses the Energy of Elemental Primals and shape into Biddable Avatars. Obviously from the Lore the Summoner should have Elementalist Abilities and Pets should the focal point of the Job.

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Originally Posted by Svalitz

...and SMN in XI had enough issues already, I mean I was more like a crappy WHM most of the time...

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What you said right here is the exact reason why the summoner in this game is sorta the way it is. Guess what in this game you aren't a crappy WHM most of the time, you are a fully capable DPS job, that consistently deals high level damage. Oh and you SUMMON a pet to aid you. I mean people come on do you really want a class where you are on the sidelines half the time.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

This again the White Knights have spoken. Stop trying to defend SE's poor design of the Summoner and just admit it doesn't even represent its lore properly.

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There are no "White Knights" just people who can take the job for what it is and what SE was trying to do. No job in the series is ever represented exactly the same, bit as long as the main aspect is kept, the audience understands it. And oh hay, summoners have summons, whaddya know. And who are you to say that they don't represent the lore properly, did you create it? And what are these Elementalist abilities they should have, why can't the abilities they already have be Elementalist ones.

The real issue people are sick of is people complaining about summoner's lore and the way the job works. The job is fine as it is, otherwise players would be stuck on the sidelines, or be gimpy WHMs, as they were in XI, if the job was more "Historical". The community can agree that certain abilities and other issues could/should be changed. But as a whole, no, just no.

And SE, if you see this, please know the real suggestions/issues, from those people complaining that their water isn't wet enough.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

What you said right here is the exact reason why the summoner in this game is sorta the way it is. Guess what in this game you aren't a crappy WHM most of the time, you are a fully capable DPS job, that consistently deals high level damage. Oh and you SUMMON a pet to aid you. I mean people come on do you really want a class where you are on the sidelines half the time.



There are no "White Knights" just people who can take the job for what it is and what SE was trying to do. No job in the series is ever represented exactly the same, bit as long as the main aspect is kept, the audience understands it. And oh hay, summoners have summons, whaddya know. And who are you to say that they don't represent the lore properly, did you create it? And what are these Elementalist abilities they should have, why can't the abilities they already have be Elementalist ones.

The real issue people are sick of is people complaining about summoner's lore and the way the job works. The job is fine as it is, otherwise players would be stuck on the sidelines, or be gimpy WHMs, as they were in XI, if the job was more "Historical". The community can agree that certain abilities and other issues could/should be changed. But as a whole, no, just no.

And SE, if you see this, please know the real suggestions/issues, from those people complaining that their water isn't wet enough.

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Elementalist abilities relate to the Elemental Primals. The Primals are the embodiment of 6 elements 8 if you count Zodiark and Hydaelyn
Ifrit-Avatar of Fire
Titan-Avatar of Earth
Garuda-Avatar of Wind
Leviathan-Avatar of Water
Ramuh-Avatar of Thunder
Shiva-Avatar of Ice
The Summoner's power comes from channelling the 6 Elements and Harnessing the Energy of the Elemental Primals and shape them into Biddable Avatars called Egis in the Allagan Language. According to the Summoner job lore provided by Y'mhtira the Summoner should be an Elementalist with the Pet as the Focal Point and without the Energy of the Primals the Summoner should just be an Ekementalist with the ability to cast tier 1 Elemental Spells(tier 2 if we count Heavensward).
This is how the current iteration of the Summoner should work.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Elementalist abilities relate to the Elemental Primals. The Primals are the embodiment of 6 elements 8 if you count Zodiark and Hydaelyn
Ifrit-Avatar of Fire
Titan-Avatar of Earth
Garuda-Avatar of Wind
Leviathan-Avatar of Water
Ramuh-Avatar of Thunder
Shiva-Avatar of Ice
The Summoner's power comes from channelling the 6 Elements and Harnessing the Energy of the Elemental Primals and shape them into Biddable Avatars called Egis in the Allagan Language. According to the Summoner job lore provided by Y'mhtira the Summoner should be an Elementalist with the Pet as the Focal Point and without the Energy of the Primals the Summoner should just be an Ekementalist with the ability to cast tier 1 Elemental Spells(tier 2 if we count Heavensward).
This is how the current iteration of the Summoner should work.

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While I understand this, and can admit that it sounds like it would've been an interesting idea, if not a little XI-esc; which SE was actively trying to avoid. I mean what you are saying is you basically want the summoner job from XI.

The idea is a little flawed however, in that an Elementalist could hold roots for several classic Final Fantasy jobs, Elementalist could be a precursor for Red Mage, it could've branched out into both Whm or Blm, they could even save an elementalist to become a Mystic Knight/Rune Knight, or a Geomancer.

There are many jobs that have similar "roles" Knight, Warrior, Paladin, Templar, all have shared skills, traits and names throughout the series. But holding one to anothers standard would be wrong.

And the Summoner lore makes sense in the game. The game basically states that the Summoners of the past were Arcanist who learned to harness the "essence" of the primals. There is no mention of elements, besides those of the primals, which is the essence. The Summoner job makes sense. It may not make sense to you, which is fine, but that doesn't mean it's wrong.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

While I understand this, and can admit that it sounds like it would've been an interesting idea, if not a little XI-esc; which SE was actively trying to avoid. I mean what you are saying is you basically want the summoner job from XI. The idea is a little flawed however, in that an Elementalist could hold roots for several classic Final Fantasy jobs, Elementalist could be a precursor for Red Mage, it could've branched out into both Whm or Blm, they could even save an elementalist to become a Mystic Knight/Rune Knight, or a Geomancer.

There are many jobs that have similar "roles" Knight, Warrior, Paladin, Templar, all have shared skills, traits and names throughout the series. But holding one to anothers standard would be wrong.

And the Summoner lore makes sense in the game. The game basically states that the Summoners of the past were Arcanist who learned to harness the "essence" of the primals. There is no mention of elements, besides those of the primals, which is the essence. The Summoner job makes sense. It may not make sense to you, which is fine, but that doesn't mean it's wrong.

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In Final Fantasy V the Summoner had Elementalist abilities and could Summon
In Final Fantasy Tactics Advance the Summoner is a Elementalist that could summon so there is already a precedent.
Also the Elementalist lore in MMORPGs is closer to the Summoner than the Red Mage because of lore similarities
Red Mage -Weilds Swords can cast Black Magic and White Magic and are the Jack of all Trades
Elementalist- Channel Elemental forces and bind them into a physical form known as an Elemental.
Summoner- Harness the Energy of Primals and shape them into a biddable Avatar called an Egi.
As anyone can see the Elementalist is a base Summoner

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Originally Posted by Sakurakiss123

don't you all understand even yoshi admite's this class is a huge failure.

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citation needed

another one of these?

my take on the lore and how the job was implemented in this iteration is that instead of summoning carbuncle, you instead are able to conjure a fraction of the primal's real power; hence it doing more damage than your carbies. as summoning the primal itself takes a lot of summoners to begin with, it is only wise that such degree is only possible. mind you that it can change in the future where you get to actually form a bond with the primals and let you, being the warrior of light, call upon them and grant you a more potent versions of your egis. the lore is very much open. it's just how to implement them is the challenge.

on a game standpoint, don't forget that this is a mmo. implementing the old style summoning magic isn't possible. the nature of a pet class is and will always be supportive. it so happened that this game made it a dps class and reiterating what i mentioned above, future expansions will address it. how soon it is, no one can tell.

This iteration of Summoner is a huge failure because it doesn't live to the image of a Final Fantasy Summoner like other jobs. Every job maintains the image of its single player Final Fantasy counterpart except for Summoner. SE didn't plan the Summoner through they just wanted a DoT class and a Pet class while the player base wanted a Summoner so they combined the two and came up with the current iteration of the Summoner. No one can explain the current iteration of the Summoner and how it fits with the lore so people resort to saying in every game Summoner is different or my favorite if you don't like how the Summoner plays then switch to another job.

The problem is every other week their are new players trying Summoner and posting threads that the current Summoner isn't an Actual Summoner. I know this is an MMO but SE still should make Summoner stay true to its single player Final Fantasy Image. The Summoner has both an identity and image problem that should be addressed with the new battle system in Heavensward.

The Summoner shoul've used Elementalist as a base since it naturally flows into the Summoner lore.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

Haven't you ever heard big things come in small packages. Plus with everything that happens on screen would you really want a huge summon fighting along side you. Wouldn't that get confusing, like if you were fighting titan with titan. Also everyone neds to stop comparing 14 to 11, this will never be 11-2. Could the Egis of been designed a bit better, maybe, but do their designs fit into both the games atmosphere and the lore, yes.

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Truthful answer to this: yes. Previous ff games didn't have you summoning all watered down midgets. This issue has been addressed by many summoners since the Jobs inclusion to ffxiv, SE played the overly safe card when designing smn and its balancing and aesthetics show it in obvious proportions.

We need a real smn.

While I like the play style of Summoner, the Poison skills do not really fit the Summoner Theme.

For all I care they could change the class to Orator, have a bunch of Pig, Dragon, Eye, pets because they used the Tame skill.

Sooo.... you're an scion and their main objective is to prevent summoning of primals (that are, from my understanding, gods/protectors of beast tribes against the humanoids) and you think it'd be ok that you could summon all of them, when beast tribes have multiple summoners and they still need loads of crystals for the aether consumed. Also, if you want to prevent their existence, why your job should allow you to summon them wholly?
Note that above is for all them "our summons should be full omnipotent beings that wipes everything with one sweep of a hand"

As for the elementalist proposal, sure it'd fit more on the lines of summoner's summons cause they are elemental quite often, there being some exceptions. but the thing is, blm is already quite the elementalist in this game.

So this leaves us with either renaming current summoner class and be Summonerless. or we break the purpose of mainscenario by summoning the very things we kill and prevent being summoned for the safety of the realm. Or we stick with what we have right now, a DoT +pet class called summoner

Unless someone has some other ideas for re-designing that doesn't break the game/be too close to a current jobs

Oh it's a patented Akiza "Wah wah Summoner isn't what iiiii want it to be" thread. I would call him a 1 trick pony but tricks are usually amusing.

Next he'll be asking for every time he uses a Summon it changes the weather of the area again.

I'm just hoping that the big change we get in Heavensward is taking a page from Iceheart. It'd be similar to Demo-Locks metamorphosis but possibly based off your current pet. And at the very least make a tome that's graphic effect is that it turns your egi into a carbuncle themed after it. Like Ifirit would be red, Ramuh purple and so on.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

the Poison skills do not really fit the Summoner Theme.

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Poison isn't a real summoner skill? Rydia had Bio in FF4 and she could successfully poison every single boss in the game, in fact it was one of her strongest spells.

Just because it's different to XI or how more 'modern' FF summoners like Yuna battles doesn't mean it's invalid.

Alright, if they changed all the Summoner abilities so that everyone within a 100 yalm radius has the action stop and replaced with an FMV of Garuda or Ifrit tearing things up, would that satisfy everyone?

Why are you people even wasting your time mocking requests to change smn by people who play it and obviously want it changed?

There are legitimate flaws with the job other than the obvious Egis and shared class structure of ACN.

Stop trolling.