Relics coming to an end?

Ive seen various rumors here and there, is there a source that they will be obsolete or no longer upgradeable? If so, is that it for ilvl increase?

This, from the Developers' Blog, is leading people to believe that this is the next and final stage of the relic line.
Considering how patches have gone so far, 2.0, 2.2, and 2.4 bringing ilvl increases and 2.1, 2.3, and assuming 2.5 bring intermittent gear to patch before it. Considering 2.5 is going to be the final stage of the crystal tower, I don't see the gear exceeding that of the final coil as that has been the pattern so far.

As for the relics themselves, the upgrade stages to match the coil patches seem to come out half way through the patch following the implementation of the given coil patch (halfway through a crystal tower patch). Since 3.0 is upon is soon enough, it would probably be best for SE to ditch the current relics for an entirely new relic line in Heavensward, sure it's nice to still have your relic weapon be useful with all the work put in, it will make a nice glamour. But ditching them will make future relics more accessible to the entire player base.

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Originally Posted by Barboron

This, from the Developers' Blog, is leading people to believe that this is the next and final stage of the relic line.
Considering how patches have gone so far, 2.0, 2.2, and 2.4 bringing ilvl increases and 2.1, 2.3, and assuming 2.5 bring intermittent gear to patch before it. Considering 2.5 is going to be the final stage of the crystal tower, I don't see the gear exceeding that of the final coil as that has been the pattern so far.

As for the relics themselves, the upgrade stages to match the coil patches seem to come out half way through the patch following the implementation of the given coil patch (halfway through a crystal tower patch).Since 3.0 is upon is soon enough, it would probably be best for SE to ditch the current relics for an entirely new relic line in Heavensward, sure it's nice to still have your relic weapon be useful with all the work put in, it will make a nice glamour. But ditching them will make future relics more accessible to the entire player base.

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Was talking about this with some friends a few days ago and a system EQ used would be pretty useful here.


When EQ introduced the epic 2.0s you needed the 1.0 to start the quest line OR you had to do a "prequest" or "1.0 skip quest"

Basically reward those who did the whole relic (I wouldn't be among them) by letting them start on the new relic line right away but for those of us who didn't complete theirs have a additional step we have to do before starting the new relic.

The EQ ones were MUCH MUCH less time consuming than the originals but if u already had the 1.0 anyway... it was nice to feel rewarded for going through that.


So basically some quest that would take a few days-a week tops that if u had the completed relic you could skip and begin on the heavensward relic.

Hmm, hopefully the current relics will be involved somehow. Kinda sh!tty knowing i coulda just not did anything and waited for expansion.

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Originally Posted by Zarzak

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Honestly, I was tihnking something similar too. XD Having your previous relic impact or improve progress on the next stage of the relic or have some sort of implementation. If even just from the Zenith stage since you can do that in a day.

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Originally Posted by atomicdeath

Hmm, hopefully the current relics will be involved somehow. Kinda sh!tty knowing i coulda just not did anything and waited for expansion.

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Eh even if they implemented something like I mentioned... the same logic could be used at any time "I could just not do it and wait for 4.0"

I guarantee they aren't going to make you go through the whole relic to start whatever they plan for Heavensward. Unless they nerf it into the floor. They are far too casual pleasing to do anything like that.

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Originally Posted by Barboron

Honestly, I was tihnking something similar too. XD Having your previous relic impact or improve progress on the next stage of the relic or have some sort of implementation. If even just from the Zenith stage since you can do that in a day.

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Just thinking a really really lazy way they could do it is have something similar to the Nexus "light" mechanic as the 1st step in the new one. And just have whatever stage you made it to in the original relic line impact that.

aka..

base = 5%
Zenith = 10%
Atma = 15%
Animus = 20%
Novus = 30%
Nexus = 40%
whatever is next = 50%

They made the Relic quest a succession of increasingly ridiculous grinds. If they don't reset it and start over in Heavensward, new players will literally never be able to catch up.

If we do get a new relic weapon and not continuing from the original I won't do one again.

I would a little upset if they didn't use the original.

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Originally Posted by Illya

They made the Relic quest a succession of increasingly ridiculous grinds. If they don't reset it and start over in Heavensward, new players will literally never be able to catch up.

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Why do new players need to catch up, the relic isn't the best weapon in the game, its a glorified glamour piece, that isn't how mmo's work, you can't just drag everyone back to zero so the new kids don't feel left out, that's idiotic...the players who were there from the start and who have put the work in deserve to be infront, nerf the past content down a bit for them, but don't serve them stuff on a freaking platter

abandoning the lv50 relic is one of the dumbest things they could possibly do and would just piss off a decent chunk of the playerbase tbh. they'll probably be upgradeable to lv60, with new/returning players either getting a ilvl 80 style quest to get the lv60 version, or a brand new weapon entirely.

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Originally Posted by AckersFury

Why do new players need to catch up, the relic isn't the best weapon in the game, its a glorified glamour piece,

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Novus made it the second-best-in-slot weapon for anyone willing to invest the money in melding it that way, and the only exception is 2.4 with poetics weapons, which require 3 weeks of lockouts to get plus who knows how many more weeks of lockouts to make the upgrade.

Relics are actually literally the best starter weapons you can take into current Coil and will remain your best weapon for weeks unless you get extremely lucky with loot, and the next patch will make them even more competitive.

I just hope that all the time ppl (as well me) put into the relics up to Nexus isn't for nothing. That would pretty much devestate me and I would question me why I even did it.

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Originally Posted by AckersFury

Why do new players need to catch up, the relic isn't the best weapon in the game, its a glorified glamour piece, that isn't how mmo's work, you can't just drag everyone back to zero so the new kids don't feel left out, that's idiotic...the players who were there from the start and who have put the work in deserve to be infront, nerf the past content down a bit for them, but don't serve them stuff on a freaking platter

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I don't see the problem. You'll have a glorified glamour piece that none of the newbies have regardless if the relic quest continues into Heavensward. I doubt many people would want to backtrack for 2.0 relic when 3.0 relic can be had. Because of this, 2.0 relics could actually be more rare and have more value as glamour piece since only certain few who played 2.0 put the time in to get it. SE does this already with raid content so I don't see why they wouldn't extend it to relic weapons.

I really don't see anything wrong with new players looking at veterans and seeing 'One of the fabled relic weapons' and going "I'll never be able to get that". That just means they'll become actual relics, rather than something literally everyone has.

The relic quest is just going to get easier anyway. The only real issue I see left with the quest is Materia... Wouldn't it be weird if Level 60 gear yields either IV or V Materia, causing IV to crash in price? Everything else is just a perfectly manageable grind. People already have Yoshimitsu Animus/Novus/Nexus after all.

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Originally Posted by Kazza2003

I just hope that all the time ppl (as well me) put into the relics up to Nexus isn't for nothing. That would pretty much devestate me and I would question me why I even did it.

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If this is really the case, im done with this game.

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Originally Posted by Illya

They made the Relic quest a succession of increasingly ridiculous grinds. If they don't reset it and start over in Heavensward, new players will literally never be able to catch up.

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This is the silliest misconception of all time.
I started this game when Novus older content. I leveled and caught up and am working on Nexus now. There are so many other players out there who catch up. This disgusting nonsense of new players not catching up is ridiculous. There are many different ways to prepare for your grind such as doing the expert roulette daily for Alexandrite. By the time I had my animus, I just had to meld the Novus to get it since I had collected the alexandrite.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Everything else is just a perfectly manageable grind. People already have Yoshimitsu Animus/Novus/Nexus after all.

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Exactly. So many people out there think that it's impossible just because they hear stories of how it was for the original people going through it. It's not hard anymore nor such a crazy grindfest. Some people can actually catch up regardless of nerfs.
News flash: It's called effort.

If they make it so that these weapons don't have anything at all to do with relic 3.0 weapons, I'm not bothering. What a way to reward my grind and efforts to catch up to the other players who had them. Those relics will just be obsolete. Just invest in whatever time it takes to get the endgame drops since that's where SE is putting their money.

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Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio

This is the silliest misconception of all time.
There are many different ways to prepare for your grind such as doing the expert roulette daily for Alexandrite. By the time I had my animus, I just had to meld the Novus to get it since I had collected the alexandrite.

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You cannot do Morbid Motivation without first obtaining at least one Relic Animus to unlock One Man's Trash. Alt relics should not enter a conversation of what playing the game is like for newbies.

[QUOTE=Ophie-Mio;2603945] snip QUOTE]

So Ophie its basically ok that SE does a hard reset on all gear including coil gear (which also takes awhile to get before its put into df) but, relic weapons should be the only exclusion to this rule? Pretty sure SE wants all the new content to be accessible to new players without them having to backtrack through previous content to eventually caught up to the 2.0 players. I understand you all put a lot of time to get your relics but, SE has to cater to their bottom line and making the game completely accessible to new expansion players feeds into that.

[QUOTE=cookiecutter;2603965]

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Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio

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So Ophie its basically ok that SE does a hard reset on all gear including coil gear (which also takes awhile to get before its put into df) but, relic weapons should be the only exclusion to this rule? Pretty sure SE wants all the new content to be accessible to new players without them having to backtrack through previous content to eventually caught up to the 2.0 players. I understand you all put a lot of time to get your relics but, SE has to cater to their bottom line and making the game completely accessible to new expansion players feeds into that.

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A relic quest line has no effect on accessibility of new content. The bottom line is, if they piss off their long time players, they will lose subs. Why the need to cheapen the relic any more than the quest gets nerfed with patches?

eh. they might follow wow's 'gear reset every expansion'.

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Originally Posted by atomicdeath

A relic quest line has no effect on accessibility of new content. The bottom line is, if they piss off their long time players, they will lose subs. Why the need to cheapen the relic any more than the quest gets nerfed with patches?

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you mean like coil? where almost everyone who can't clear cries for nerfs?

[QUOTE=atomicdeath;2603975]

People say the exact same thing about coil nerfs.

[QUOTE=cookiecutter;2603980]

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Originally Posted by atomicdeath

People say the exact same thing about coil nerfs.

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You still have to beat the coils to progress. If coils can be bypassed completely then its the same thing.

edit: also why does it have my pic next to your comment lol

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Originally Posted by atomicdeath

You still have to beat the coils to progress. If coils can be bypassed completely then its the same thing.

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That's the plan once 3.0 comes out. You don't have to complete coil to do endgame raiding in 3.0. So the same idea should be applied to relics as well.

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Originally Posted by cookiecutter

That's the plan once 3.0 comes out. You don't have to complete coil to do endgame raiding in 3.0. So the same idea should be applied to relics as well.

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IDK then. Guess ill re-evaluate my subscription when more info is released.

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Originally Posted by Krr

You cannot do Morbid Motivation without first obtaining at least one Relic Animus to unlock One Man's Trash. Alt relics should not enter a conversation of what playing the game is like for newbies.

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I was a newbie in April. My first lvl 50 job was bard and I got the animus for it. My Novus was for whm that I had saved up atma for from the original grind back when it was difficult. I was slow on the Atma book grind and got Alexandrite during. I didn't even get my Novus until the first few days of 2.4.
So alt relics can come into play when speaking of newbies. What I have done isn't so crazy.

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Originally Posted by cookiecutter

So Ophie its basically ok that SE does a hard reset on all gear including coil gear (which also takes awhile to get before its put into df) but, relic weapons should be the only exclusion to this rule?

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No, but expansions are expansions. They are made to expand upon the content already present not wipe it clean. People who begin the game for Heavensward will still need to get a Lvl.60 and still need the ilevel to go through content. They will see what others did and go through the coils if they want or pass it up (most will still go into it cause it's content). Coil gear will be easier obtainable ilevel by then and most will still go through it for the gear.
I'm not even talking about what should and shouldn't be exclusive or what. Even if the grind included a quest line, it's whatever. What I'm saying is that wiping the slate clean on hard work is not the way to go with the new relics whatever they may be. Even taking the suggestion of doing a pre-step for it without a Nexus/Zodiac whatever it's called is better than telling us to our faces that our efforts will always be rewarded with nothing.

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Originally Posted by cookiecutter

Pretty sure SE wants all the new content to be accessible to new players without them having to backtrack through previous content to eventually caught up to the 2.0 players. I understand you all put a lot of time to get your relics but, SE has to cater to their bottom line and making the game completely accessible to new expansion players feeds into that.

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After the leveling is complete for these new players and they have to get whatever ilevel is required, they will be "backtracking." And SE catering exclusively to their brand-new expansion players won't help their numbers when it comes to the players who grind out the content consistently. If they make these relics irrelevant, they make the next ones so as well. Why grind if it will mean nothing?

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Originally Posted by cookiecutter

That's the plan once 3.0 comes out. You don't have to complete coil to do endgame raiding in 3.0. So the same idea should be applied to relics as well.

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You don't have to complete coil to do endgame raiding in 3.0 but just to completely ignore older content is sad. This game honestly does not have enough content to actually justify skipping one just because it's old. What else you gonna do?

Who knows... Maybe Excalibur will just follow the same path Curtana did for the entirety of Heavensward.

Excalibur > Zenith > Atma > Animus > Novus > Nexus.

Then it'll take a new form in the next expansion.

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Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio

I was a newbie in April. My first lvl 50 job was bard and I got the animus for it. My Novus was for whm that I had saved up atma for from the original grind back when it was difficult. I was slow on the Atma book grind and got Alexandrite during. I didn't even get my Novus until the first few days of 2.4.
So alt relics can come into play when speaking of newbies. What I have done isn't so crazy.

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That's true. I apologize for being harsh.

However, it's factually untrue and misleading to tell people that "alexandrite isn't so bad" because you saved it up for an alt relic using a former main relic that you made months ago. First-time relic pathers who stick to their main won't have the option to gear their first job as quickly as you geared your second or third. Few relic pathers would even imagine switching main relics once they got past the extremely expensive animus step.

Newbies didn't have months to save up resources from "When atma was new and hard". Newbies don't have a full kit of roulettes unlocked for months. Newbies reached level 50 a couple of weeks ago and are still spending another week sitting in queue waiting for their dungeons to pop so they can unlock their HM roulette and are scraping together sol to inflate their ilvl just to participate in anything. Being new in 2.2 isn't anything like being new in 2.4 - the amount of content bloat to catch up on is absurd.

New in 2.4 is much, much different than new in 2.2.

Also the expense required for the materia to make Animus is entirely out of reach of any players who aren't hardcore gatherers or crafters. The Relic Animus weapon should be called the Relic Crafter weapon because only they can afford the materia required to make it.

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Originally Posted by Krr

However, it's factually untrue and misleading to tell people that "alexandrite isn't so bad" because you saved it up for an alt relic using a former main relic that you made months ago.

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But getting alexandrite ISN'T so bad. Animus is easier to get than ever and all it requires is time. But even if you don't get that quest, there's still hunts and maps. There are three different ways to get alexandrite.

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Originally Posted by Krr

First-time relic pathers who stick to their main won't have the option to gear their first job as quickly as you geared your second or third. Few relic pathers would even imagine switching main relics once they got past the extremely expensive animus step.

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I'm sorry but this isn't true. All my friends and FC members have had easier times gearing up their second and third jobs way quicker than their first. Even if their main is still their main. I have an FC member who has FIVE animuses and one Novus all gotten before 2.4 and they have never changed main jobs. It was just content to do.
And I don't think it's true about switching either. Sometimes people just don't like the job anymore. Hell, I main SCH and got the Novus for WHM. I wanted SCH to be easy so I chose to endgame grind for its weapon.

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Originally Posted by Krr

Newbies didn't have months to save up resources from "When atma was new and hard". Newbies don't have a full kit of roulettes unlocked for months.

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I was very fortunate then. I had a friend who told me to save up alexandrite when I got an animus that I didn't intend to do anything with. I got my myth tomes from grinding out dungeons that I unlocked as I went through story mode and ilevel grind. In comparison to others, my relic was a slow grind. To me, these new players will have to get these roulette unlocked too if they wanna do anything in this game. All of this stuff is usually just done concurrently to how you play.

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Originally Posted by Krr

...spending another week sitting in queue waiting for their dungeons to pop so they can unlock their HM roulette and are scraping together sol to inflate their ilvl just to participate in anything. Being new in 2.2 isn't anything like being new in 2.4 - the amount of content bloat to catch up on is absurd.

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To me, you're playing an MMO. MMO's are notoriously designed to eat your time. Grinds are just factually a part of any MMO. To a new player, it's all exciting and new content, not old and boring.

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Originally Posted by Illya

Also the expense required for the materia to make Animus is entirely out of reach of any players who aren't hardcore gatherers or crafters. The Relic Animus weapon should be called the Relic Crafter weapon because only they can afford the materia required to make it.

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I think you mean Novus. Animus doesn't require Materia at all. Still, you're ignoring a couple of points;

1. Novus only costs a lot if you focus purely on two stats. Focus on several and the price drops substantially, not to mention anything up to tier III Materia can easily be farmed Spiritbonding basic Lv49 gears, tier I is a matter of buying gear off an NPC and murdering Lv10 monsters for a few minutes.
2. Materia prices will reduce over time as new gear is released and crafting them becomes easier. The moment we get tier V Materia, expect tier IV to crash in price. Any gear which produces tier V will likely produce a lot of tier IV as "unwanted" Materia. We already have Grade 5 Carbonized Matter from one of the main scenario quests, and Lv60 is the perfect chance to introduce tier V Materia.

I would in no way call myself a "hardcore gatherer or crafter" (not a single Supra), and I'm finding it very easy to Spiritbond my own Materia for a Crit/Det Yoshimitus Novus. Slowed down now that I'm on tier IV Materias, but I still wouldn't call it an insurmountable task unless you literally only have 2 Gil.

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Originally Posted by Illya

Also the expense required for the materia to make Animus is entirely out of reach of any players who aren't hardcore gatherers or crafters. The Relic Animus weapon should be called the Relic Crafter weapon because only they can afford the materia required to make it.

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Actually it could be resolved easily by not using materialIV, I have seen many players especailly the new players doing this.
They will sell their MateriaVI for good price, for example the reward from unlocking CT, and earn the gil from those "hardcore". ^^;

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Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio

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I'm pretty sure the new 51-59 or so dungeons won't have an ilvl cap so you can go in whatever gear you have at the moment. They'll also probably incorporate armor similar to relics so people can be relatively geared for the new 60 dungeons. I'm all for people doing old content but, it shouldn't be forced upon you if you're a new player. WoW locked content out in similar way in BC with no one way to advance unless you attuned yourself to old raids that no one wanted to do. They realized that was a mistake and allowed easier access to gear and items for new players. Requiring people to do old content before trying the new content creates artificial blocks since you can only group with newer players since the older players will all ready be head first in new content. Sure some players that put a ton of time into relics and coil will be upset by this but, its really for the greater good so that newer players can quickly join in with the older players in experiencing the new content. Now if they want to backtrack and do coil and relics all over again that's completely optional which it should be. You're suggesting that it should be mandatory for players to backtrack and that really turns off some perspective new players. Also the grind you made isn't completely useless. You'll have a weapon that most players won't have when 3.0 hits. You might not be able to keep your stat upgrades but, coil players won't be able to keep their Dreadwyrm weapons either since the 3.0 weapons that replaces the relics will have a much higher ilvl. So by allowing you to keep your relic upgradable you're also forcing endgame players or prospective endgame players to grind out relic weapons right now so they'll be ahead for 3.0 and, trust me if the do that you're going to see a lot of flame. They'll be way more complaining than on this current thread.

You guys make it sound like newbies WANT to be power-progressed all the way to the top in one day. Newbies want content. And that's what the relic line is. I doubt Yoshi-P is going to throw that away, and I doubt any newbie is going to quit the game because they can't get an all-powerful weapon instantly.

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Originally Posted by atomicdeath

Hmm, hopefully the current relics will be involved somehow. Kinda sh!tty knowing i coulda just not did anything and waited for expansion.

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Sadly you can basically say that about any piece of gear from every patch, every three months.

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Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio

But getting alexandrite ISN'T so bad. Animus is easier to get than ever and all it requires is time. But even if you don't get that quest, there's still hunts and maps. There are three different ways to get alexandrite.

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There are actually four ways to collect Alexandrite, although two of them have the same final step (Mysterious Maps.)

*You may do the quest Morbid Motivation, of which the prerequisite is owning at least one Animus weapon and doing the quests beforehand. This grants you one Mysterious Map per day which can yield an Alexandrite.

*You may also purchase a Mysterious Map for 400 soldiery as many times per day as you wish. This does not require the prerequisite quest.

*You may farm FATEs for a low (2%ish?) drop rate on Alexandrite, similar to ATMA minus the locational requirements.

*You may spend 200 allied seals for one Alexandrite.

You cannot do the daily map or farm FATEs until you have at least one Animus weapon. The only way to 'save up' Alexandrite is by farming hunts (which are now by and large dead, inefficient content) or banking Soldiery. These are facts that need to be noted and accounted for when we lecture fresh players on how to 'correctly' go about doing things efficiently.

I honestly don't care how easy or hard you think getting Alexandrite is. It's easily the least-awful step, Materia aside. But please don't misinform the playerbase by telling them to do things they cannot actually do ingame just for the sake of making a point. If you think a month of grinding dailies for Sol and Morbid Motivation (or much less in hours spent grinding RNG fates) is an acceptable rate to gain Alexandrite, that's fine by me. But don't misinform new players as to how the system actually works for the sake of satisfying an argument.

It's also equally negligent to ignore that the Soldiery conversion rate for Mysterious Maps is actually worse than the 2.3 Mythology rate was, if you are doing hunting, meaning if you did your Alex through in 2.3, it's actually considerably slower in 2.4 to the point where many players consider doing FATE Alexandrites or 4-man dungeon speedruns more efficient, and even then, it still actually takes twice as long per Alexandrite then it did in 2.3

Not that I ever want to see Huntpocalypse 2014 again, or that I think the old rate was acceptable. But it's important to keep full and accurate bases of information when S-E makes changes and tells us they are favorable when they aren't.

Also, it's a hell of a stretch to call doing any of the Relic weapon tasks 'content', as many have been over before. But if people actually enjoy spending 4500 soldiery as an entry ticket to killing 900 overworld trash mobs, doing 27 recycled dungeons, 27 recycled FATEs, and 27 levequests that have been in the game since launch, all the more power to 'em. But I also don't see the fault in removing a lot of what is functionally artificially padding out the quest with gating in the form of Tomestone sinks, RNG blocks, and daily limitations on doing things.

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Originally Posted by Zarzak

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I was around that game when they did this. It was really nice. I loved the way they did that. I also loved that the epic weapon quest was unique to each class. It is something I wish they would do in this game.

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Originally Posted by Illya

They made the Relic quest a succession of increasingly ridiculous grinds. If they don't reset it and start over in Heavensward, new players will literally never be able to catch up.

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Square should just drop the relic quest line completely. Remove the ability to get the weapons from the game. That way, new players will be able to start Havensward's equivalent to the original relic weapons immediately, and the people that completed their original relics will be able to keep those now unobtainable weapons as a reward.

Everyone wins!

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Originally Posted by AzakaTonnerre

Sadly you can basically say that about any piece of gear from every patch, every three months.

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I agree that sucks too. Just feels like relic should actually be something special that you put alot of time into, not to be thrown away so new people dont feel left out. Slap in the face if it happens.

I want my millions back for all the materia I had to buy.