Losing mats on 90k

I lost count of how many times it's happened... There I am, crafting in the rain (or sun or snow or whatever), then suddenly BAM goes a 90k... only to log back in and see all my materials lost. Is there nothing that could be done about this? Really? While making things only to level up - it's just annoying, easy to get over. But what if it happens while making something that's actually expensive, either for time or gil investments; or just really really hard to make, like some HQ/2-3star items? Really awfully maddening and I don't think there really isn't any way to deal with it. Please look into it.

As someone who a unstable internet connection I feel your pain, however the alternative is worse, letting people 'reset' their crafts by force dcing makes crafting pointless. I always do expensive crafts when my internet connection is stable.

I hear ya! Sometimes its makes me sob a little! Especially when I loose 9 x Lime Sulphur....then its a real bawl!!!
But on the other hand, I do acknowledge the potential issues (as Lebe says)

Just gotta take it....in the face. With a punch. And a 600k Gil sink. And cry

I had the same problem too and I hate it.
I understand that give back the item due to internet connection problem is not possible because is someone fail the syntesys would just turn off internet before the last action.

My suggestion:
When you relog in just make the synthesis continue where you left it, so if you won't lose materials.

Just wait till it happens when your crafting an i95 Primal Weapon.... xD

Millions down the drain.

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Originally Posted by Geologo

My suggestion:
When you relog in just make the synthesis continue where you left it, so if you won't lose materials.

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This would be more than acceptable to all I'd say. Only prob is if the game can actually handle that state.

When I was at around 80% crafting Maleficent Moogle Mogstaff, I dc'ed. 3+ million worth of mats gone. Worst of all, it was someone else mats I'm working on, and the staff should be for him ofc. ^^;

The process of materials being lost upon disconnection is, as players have mentioned, in order to guard against cheating.

There are also technical difficulties surrounding the preservation of the progress for when a player would log back in, so we do not have any plans to change this system at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Parz3val

Please respond regarding the Personal Housing Travesty instead.

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Yoshi-P already addressed this. Please look for the info instead of constantly asking.

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Originally Posted by scarebearz

Just wait till it happens when your crafting an i95 Primal Weapon.... xD

Millions down the drain.

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This happened to me 4 weeks ago when making a Tremor bow. Goes without saying this was the worst day in my entire time playing FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Grekumah

The process of materials being lost upon disconnection is, as players have mentioned, in order to guard against cheating.

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I see the point when it comes to cheating, but there HAS to be a better design choice than losing a potentially huge time/gil investment just because your connection decided to hiccup. Oo

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Originally Posted by Geologo

[Snip]
My suggestion:
When you relog in just make the synthesis continue where you left it, so if you won't lose materials.

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I think this would definitely be the way to go! No DC'ing = cheating, no resetting, etc. Just like if you DC in a dungeon, log back in and return to where you left off.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

I see the point when it comes to cheating, but there HAS to be a better design choice than losing a potentially huge time/gil investment just because your connection decided to hiccup. Oo

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What exactly do you suggest?

If it's technically difficult to store where your craft was when you relog, then there's only "dc'ing making you get your materials back upon logging back in" where people would fake dc whenever they wouldn't get HQ.

It doesn't seem like it'd be too hard... buffs/debuffs are in a suspended state whilst crafting already... save CP value, condition, durability, & item. Done.

Also, I read Yoshi's reply regarding Housing, it was neither appropriate nor sufficient.

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Originally Posted by Parz3val

It doesn't seem like it'd be too hard... buffs/debuffs are in a suspended state whilst crafting already... save CP value, condition, durability, & item. Done.

Also, I read Yoshi's reply regarding Housing, it was neither appropriate nor sufficient.

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Take Yoshi's response as you will, this is not the housing forum nor general discussion, stay on topic about crafting, not housing

Until such time as the status of the synth can be remembered between logins I would say create a way for people to recover their last failed synth once per 2 weeks or so.

Yes, it would be used sometimes when inappropriate, but it would be hard to abuse heavily, and if your recovery timer was not up you would know not to try the very expensive synths with an unstable connection. Perhaps also make it cost a factor of the recipes level as well so there would be 'some" hit to using it.

Thanks

If the Resume on reconnect is hard to code, maybe you should try this :

If you're character have the Reclaim skill and over 55 PS when he DC, he will have 90% chance to get his mats back on reconnect.
It's not perfect but this way drama will not occur that often.
And you can't use that for cheating, since if you DC to get mats back, you should has well use your Reclaim skill.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

What exactly do you suggest?

If it's technically difficult to store where your craft was when you relog, then there's only "dc'ing making you get your materials back upon logging back in" where people would fake dc whenever they wouldn't get HQ.

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How hard is it to save progress anyways? All the craft action you did are stored in chat log including how much progress/quality/CP it took or gain, so it's easy to parse that in progress. And I'm sure saving those durability/condition/progress/quality/CP would take very minimal space memory.

If you have saved all that, where's the part of cheating? You should already know that cancelling craft midway equals losing the mats. And in case player using Reclaim, then it should guarantee the mats are returning back, dc or not.

Just to point out the obvious:

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[14:46]You begin synthesizing a circle of hippogryph leather.
[14:46]You remove the following from your bag:
[14:46]3 earth crystals
[14:46]1 hippogryph skin 
[14:46]1 pinch of black alumen
You use Comfort Zone.
 You gain the effect of Comfort Zone.
[14:47]You use Tricks of the Trade  Success!
[14:47]  20 CP recovered.
You use Inner Quiet.
 You gain the effect of Inner Quiet.
[14:47]You use Tricks of the Trade  Success!
[14:47]  20 CP recovered.
You use Steady Hand II.
 You gain the effect of Steady Hand II.
[14:47]You use Tricks of the Trade  Success!
[14:47]  20 CP recovered.
You use Waste Not II.
 You gain the effect of Waste Not II.
[14:47]You use Hasty Touch  Success!
[14:47]  Quality increases by 124.
[14:47]  Durability decreases by 5.
You gain the effect of Inner Quiet.
[14:47]You use Hasty Touch  Success!
[14:47]  Quality increases by 144.
[14:47]  Durability decreases by 5.
You gain the effect of Inner Quiet.
[14:47]You use Hasty Touch  Success!
[14:47]  Quality increases by 165.
[14:47]  Durability decreases by 5.
You gain the effect of Inner Quiet.
You lose the effect of Steady Hand II.
You use Steady Hand II.
 You gain the effect of Steady Hand II.
You lose the effect of Comfort Zone.
[14:47]You use Hasty Touch  Success!
[14:47]  Quality increases by 186.
[14:47]  Durability decreases by 5.
You gain the effect of Inner Quiet.
[14:47]You use Hasty Touch  Success!
[14:47]  Quality increases by 208.
[14:47]  Durability decreases by 5.
You gain the effect of Inner Quiet.
[14:47]You use Hasty Touch  Success!
[14:47]  Quality increases by 229.
[14:47]  Durability decreases by 5.
You gain the effect of Inner Quiet.
[14:47]You use Hasty Touch  Success!
[14:47]  Quality increases by 377.
[14:47]  Durability decreases by 5.
You gain the effect of Inner Quiet.
You lose the effect of Waste Not II.
You use Manipulation.
 You gain the effect of Manipulation.
You lose the effect of Steady Hand II.
You use Steady Hand II.
 You gain the effect of Steady Hand II.
[14:48]You use Standard Touch  Success!
[14:48]  Quality increases by 342.
[14:48]  Durability decreases by 10.
You gain the effect of Inner Quiet.
[14:48]You use Byregot's Blessing  Success!
[14:48]  Quality increases by 81.
[14:48]  Durability decreases by 10.
You lose the effect of Inner Quiet.
You lose the effect of Manipulation.
You use Ingenuity II.
 You gain the effect of Ingenuity II.
[14:48]You use Careful Synthesis II  Success!
[14:48]  Progress increases by 116.
[14:48]  Durability decreases by 10.
[14:48]You synthesize a circle of hippogryph leather 

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As you can see, the chat log noted every action it does and how many it takes/gains. And I believe SE also stored all these in their servers.

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Originally Posted by Geologo

My suggestion:
When you relog in just make the synthesis continue where you left it, so if you won't lose materials.

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While being a reasonable solution to this, i don´t think this would be horrible to implement...

Just preserve the materials but consume the crystals when a player is disconnected from server, the same way the reclaim DoH action works, so something is lost to deter deliberate unlimited resets, just not the materials that potentially took weeks to acquire.

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Originally Posted by BobbinT

As you can see, the chat log noted every action it does and how many it takes/gains. And I believe SE also stored all these in their servers.

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This. They have a VERY DETAILED synthesis log (to the point that the chat gets unusable due to synth spam).

It should be trivial to save progress on the fly and restore that progress upon login.

Them not saving it is either incompetence or unwillingness.
Personally I believe it's the latter, because if you have to grind stuff again it's more money/playing time for them.

How would it safe guard against someone pulling the plug on their internet to simulate a disconnect if the synth isn't going their way?

yeah. What Grekumah said doesn't make any sense. More like a diversion by using cheat excuse.

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Originally Posted by Rex

Yoshi-P already addressed this. Please look for the info instead of constantly asking.

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I think you misunderstood what he was asking, he wants them to apologize and change it to the way he wants it, not just respond to it.

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Originally Posted by BobbinT

yeah. What Grekumah said doesn't make any sense. More like a diversion by using cheat excuse.

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It's a perfectly valid reason. There can be no cheating if you can't recover your synth and you lose everything. It is a plain fact, not an excuse.

Alternatives have been suggested, but there are factors in those which need to be considered:

Where do you store the progress, and how much space should be available for this?
Obviously, this would have to be server side to prevent any potential cheating client side.

But then, for how many players at a time do you store things, and how much space does that take up?
And what about processing that stored data to restore the craft to the same point it was left at?

And then there's finding the time to actually look into solving the problem and then implementing and testing the solution, which all takes up resources that they may have unavailable.

Connection issues and network problems are something to consider when you start something that could potentially be devastating. It's an underlying problem for anything that requires a network. What's next? Please restore my progress in T9 because we had some DCs? I understand the complaints, as I've lost mats for synths before through a disconnection. If time can be given to find a feasible solution, I'm sure it will be.

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Originally Posted by BobbinT

As you can see, the chat log noted every action it does and how many it takes/gains. And I believe SE also stored all these in their servers.

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And yet we all know that when we log back in, the chat log is gone too.

There are various technical issues that people are choosing to ignore here:

- the chatlog does not register the state the synth is in (excellent, good, poor, normal).
- just because the chatlog registers what you do, that doesn't mean that it's technically easy to restart the synth at the place it was when you log back in. None of us here knows that.
- if you dc inside your house the game sends you outside upon relogging. They implemented this for some reason (I hate it), so I assume that there are technical difficulties in having the old system back. This would need to be addressed first.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

And yet we all know that when we log back in, the chat log is gone too.

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Are you sure about that? lol

Anyway, I see your point about state of synth. But I think it was also recorded in chat log, albeit hidden.

And yes, it does possible to implement saving state of your craft progress. I had similar situation from one of my project as DB PL/SQL programmer, so this is sort of nothing new really. But... there were other factor to consider, hence Grekumah pointed on his 2nd sentence. Financial or strict schedule could be one of biggest factor, as to what Themis just explained.

It does kinda irk me a bit when someone pointed out of how these would become one of SE ways for adding time & gil sink, albeit questionable as I do still hope they might have better solution for these problems.

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Originally Posted by Themis

And then there's finding the time to actually look into solving the problem and then implementing and testing the solution, which all takes up resources that they may have unavailable.

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I believe this is the kicker: A few people with unreliable connections are not worth the effort. They probably have way bigger fish to fry. Also I doubt hardcore japanese players would even dare to complain about sth like this. Peeps over there have a completely different mindset. :D

Not all 90k errors are from the player's side though. Sometimes a server is unreliable and you don't know that until it kicks you and 100 other people off. When that happens, you often don't get the warning lag icon above your head that would otherwise probably have you trying to save your mats while you still had the chance. By then, it's too late to realise this was a bad time to be crafting too.

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Originally Posted by Geologo

My suggestion:
When you relog in just make the synthesis continue where you left it, so if you won't lose materials.

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a million times this. there's honestly no real reason why this is not implemented yet.
would solve the problem then and there and completely eliminate player frustration.

giving the items back is not a fix, it would just promote disconnecting (but it's also not the only answer to this topic.)

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Originally Posted by mbncd

Not all 90k errors are from the player's side though. Sometimes a server is unreliable and you don't know that until it kicks you and 100 other people off. When that happens, you often don't get the warning lag icon above your head that would otherwise probably have you trying to save your mats while you still had the chance. By then, it's too late to realise this was a bad time to be crafting too.

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Speaking of that, I often got sudden DC without that red warning. And it usually happens around JP prime hours. Not to mention if there's S rank hunt pops on those hours, it would sometimes lead to sudden DC.

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Originally Posted by BobbinT

Speaking of that, I often got sudden DC without that red warning. And it usually happens around JP prime hours. Not to mention if there's S rank hunt pops on those hours, it would sometimes lead to sudden DC.

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Once you're in the synth, a warning doesn't do much good anyway, because aborted synth = lost mats.
I've never seen any warning.

Just *poof* -> error.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

Once you're in the synth, a warning doesn't do much good anyway, because aborted synth = lost mats.
I've never seen any warning.

Just *poof* -> error.

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Some warning does give you the chance to at least save your items. There's a crafting skill called Reclaim (level 50 CUL cross class) that costs 55CP for a 90% chance to get the ingredients back safely if you quickly botch the synth. If you know your connection or the server as a whole is very unstable after you start working with some of the more expensive materials, it can be wise to use that skill and try again later. Some also use it if it looks like the expensive item isn't going to HQ when they want it to.

If you've never seen any warning, you probably have your name label off. Next to your name you'll get a round red icon if your ping times are especially bad. That assumes however that it isn't just an instant server crash as I and BobbinT were talking about.

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Originally Posted by mbncd

Some warning does give you the chance to at least save your items. There's a crafting skill called Reclaim (level 50 CUL cross class) that costs 55CP for a 90% chance to get the ingredients back safely if you quickly botch the synth. If you know your connection or the server as a whole is very unstable after you start working with some of the more expensive materials, it can be wise to use that skill and try again later. Some also use it if it looks like the expensive item isn't going to HQ when they want it to.

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Well... unfortunately when you're trying a 3* crafts, the rotation might end up needing all those 10 extra slot of skills. And this would mean I have to give up Reclaim, usually replacing it with "Piece by Piece". This depends on each crafters tho. Maybe it's possible having Reclaim on 3* craft and achieves HQ.

For example, this is what I have on my GSM:
Ingenuity II, Careful Synth II, Hasty Touch, Tricks of the Trade, Steady Hand II, Comfort Zone, Byregot's Blessing, Piece by Piece, Waste Not, Waste Not II

And yes, it looks weird having both version of Waste Not. But it was needed.

Reclaim are indeed useful, back when there's no 3* crafts yet. Like I said, had to give up. ^^;

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Originally Posted by BobbinT

Well... unfortunately when you're trying a 3* crafts, the rotation might end up needing all those 10 extra slot of skills. And this would mean I have to give up Reclaim, usually replacing it with "Piece by Piece". This depends on each crafters tho. Maybe it's possible having Reclaim on 3* craft and achieves HQ.

For example, this is what I have on my GSM:
Ingenuity II, Careful Synth II, Hasty Touch, Tricks of the Trade, Steady Hand II, Comfort Zone, Byregot's Blessing, Piece by Piece, Waste Not, Waste Not II

And yes, it looks weird having both version of Waste Not. But it was needed.

Reclaim are indeed useful, back when there's no 3* crafts yet. Like I said, had to give up. ^^;

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I personally think WN2 is one of the worst skills we have. ^_-

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Originally Posted by scarebearz

I personally think WN2 is one of the worst skills we have. ^_-

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lol maybe. I do mass-produce 1* 40 dura crafts with it. XD

I really don't think what you use as a crafting skill matters... we all know that so many 90k happens (without our control) even with good connection. I just lost another mat trying to synthesize. I do worry of losing mats on expensive, very time consuming items.... especially on 3 star items that takes weeks for some people to gather/buy. I certainly hope SE takes a serious look at this.

It's the price you pay for craftin or gathering on unspoiled nodes. If you feel you have a unstable connection for the day, I hope you are smart enough NOT to craft something expensive. If you get a random 90k then you are just out of luck.

Saving craft progress on server and restoring it after logging back is not hard.

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Originally Posted by scarebearz

I personally think WN2 is one of the worst skills we have. ^_-

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WN and WNII are both only mildly useful for top level crafting, but they both have their uses cranking out mid-high level stuff via macro.