Possible Alternative to current Atma?

I understand SE wants this to be longer, drawn out. I respect it for different various reasons.

But the current state of RNG for Atma is very atrocious, 30 hrs spent to show for 1 atma stone whereas my FC mates come in 3-5 HR's and get 11/12 or even 12/12. It's not a very balanced system considering.

Perhaps SE should consider a Korean Style grind if they insist on a grind, see below.

Instead of complete RNG, break the Atma's into fragments.

Example: 10 Maiden Atma Fragments builds 1 Atma of the Maiden.

Rules:
Must obtain Gold Rank in Fate.
Must participate in fate until it's completion.
Atma Fragments have 50/50 chance per Gold Ranked Fate to drop, a set value, not randomized (edit from confusion)

Note: This means no matter what, you have to do at minimum 120 Fates. That's still a lot of Fates, and would still take players time when coupled with the books. SE could even just consider increase the myth count of each book to compensate for this to 2000 a book. People would tolerate the system a lot more if it wasn't so fecklessly based on RNG.

Of course I won't be complaining if Atma is just slapped with a nerf bat. Please, no more mindless RNG, it's very boring and discouraging.

RNG will be fine if they can do what Diablo is doing, in that game for every 2 hours if you didn't get a legendary drop, the drop rate will be double.
Blizzard said 99% of the players should get at lease 1 drop within 2 hours, yet they still develop such a system for the unlucky 1%, while SE is just ignoring them.

They could also even make Crafting more relevant in this system too, make it so any crafter level 50 can utilize the materia melding tool to create the Atma pieces out of the 10 fragments, this would put more barriers that are not dependent on RNG and also add another gil sink.

Inconsistent... You want to retain RNG (50% is still RNG), but you don't want RNG...

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

Inconsistent... You want to retain RNG (50% is still RNG), but you don't want RNG...

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50% to clarify I mean that you have a 50/50 chance on each Fate to get the fragment, that's not RNG that's a set increment.

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Originally Posted by SionDurant

50% to clarify I mean that you have a 50/50 chance on each Fate to get the fragment, that's not RNG that's a set increment.

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Chance... 50%... still RNG...
Granted, less than 0.1% chance that you go 10 fates without getting a fragment, but RNG is RNG.
If you mean 50% on first try and 100% on second, say that instead.

Another way they could do it is have it as a complete xx amount of FATEs to obtain the atma, they could tie that into lore by saying something like once so many mobs have been defeated (but we would still use FATEs) the aether released by the slewen monsters would react with the Zenith and crystalise forming a type of crystal known as Atma. Also to tie seperate zones into lore they could say "the environment inwhich the aether crystalises seems to affect the type of Atma created."

How do you know that the current RNG is not 50% and we all just have bad luck? Just like the poster above why replace a RNG with a RNG

but what if your so unlucky you never or on the upside of this 50%?? i know it's unlikely but it also contradicts your argument. The change should simply be: after 30 gold fates in 24 hours in a particular area the next (31st fate) will drop the atma for you. They can keep the RNG for people who get drops before 30 but everyone else sees a light at the end of the tunnel.

A possible alternative would be to put atmas in places that you want players to go. They introduced 3 new dungeons in the patch. Put one in each of them. Or even make it so that you get one at random. They could start people off by giving them the water one when they complete the levi story mode.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

Another way they could do it is have it as a complete xx amount of FATEs to obtain the atma, they could tie that into lore by saying something like once so many mobs have been defeated (but we would still use FATEs) the aether released by the slewen monsters would react with the Zenith and crystalise forming a type of crystal known as Atma. Also to tie seperate zones into lore they could say "the environment inwhich the aether crystalises seems to affect the type of Atma created."

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Actually a good idea. A similar one that I have heard mentioned before. Having people do 50 fates to get their atma still provides the grind, but at the same time, provides people with a visual progression that could ease the tension of the grind.

Honestly, having an end goal and something to work to would be amazing. I'm actually looking forward to the myth grind and books because at least it's a series of events I know I need to do. I'll atma farm for a bit, then get sick of RNG and take a break by mirror farming.. which is twice the RNG (drop and lot) and need for a competent group. Mirror seems even rarer than atma--don't know if that's just me though.

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

Chance... 50%... still RNG...
Granted, less than 0.1% chance that you go 10 fates without getting a fragment, but RNG is RNG.
If you mean 50% on first try and 100% on second, say that instead.

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RNG is random number generation.

A set increment is not a set of random numbers, I'm just saying, not to be rude.

This is also years of nerdery with dice roller builds talking by the way (Text Based RPGer and former developer).

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Originally Posted by SionDurant

RNG is random number generation.

A set increment is not a set of random numbers, I'm just saying, not to be rude.

This is also years of nerdery with dice roller builds talking by the way (Text Based RPGer and former developer).

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Its just that from what you said it appeared that after getting gold you'd have 50% chance to get an atma fragment, which is still a RNG. But if you have 50% and if you don't get it the next fate will have 100% chance, than yeah, its different =P

A loooot of folks get tied up in little things.

The point of this is, SE should consider an alternative, whether it's "RNG more or RNG less" needs to be different, it's just not a very fun/engaging system and really leaves you feeling like going to sleep during the afternoon even when you're playing.

Also a very small irritance: These fates count against my Challenge Log so I'm robbed of my EXP gain on my Bard or Monk.

Or SE could just realize FATEs was a very bad idea and stop trying to make us players think otherwise by enforcing them upon us... That is an option too you know. ;)

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Originally Posted by Xandim

Its just that from what you said it appeared that after getting gold you'd have 50% chance to get an atma fragment, which is still a RNG. But if you have 50% and if you don't get it the next fate will have 100% chance, than yeah, its different =P

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Yeah I shouldn't have said 50%, I edited it. But basically it's a set interval, not a possibility of 1, 2, 3, 4, 55, 60, 1 etc per fate.

It's either pass/fail, or for sake of numbers 0/100.

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

Actually a good idea. A similar one that I have heard mentioned before. Having people do 50 fates to get their atma still provides the grind, but at the same time, provides people with a visual progression that could ease the tension of the grind.

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I was just thinking the same thing. Instead of random, complete 50 Fates in each of the areas and you obtain the Atma for that area. IMO, problem solved. Still keeping people involved in Fates in the open world, still having a longer goal to accomplish, but at the same time giving everyone a clear reward for the job being done.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

I was just thinking the same thing. Instead of random, complete 50 Fates in each of the areas and you obtain the Atma for that area. IMO, problem solved. Still keeping people involved in Fates in the open world, still having a longer goal to accomplish, but at the same time giving everyone a clear reward for the job being done.

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Yep,

lol ANYTHING that's not this current system I'd love to try cause I can't stomach it and I'll keep trying, not quitting, not unsubbing, but I'm not very grateful for this! XD

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

Chance... 50%... still RNG...
Granted, less than 0.1% chance that you go 10 fates without getting a fragment, but RNG is RNG.
If you mean 50% on first try and 100% on second, say that instead.

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Yep, if they want a "korean grind" system, why not just say "20 fragments with 100% drop rate".

Anyway, any proposals like this simply compress the size of the bell curve for FATEs vs atma, up to the most extreme version (as in 100% drop rate) simply being a fixed number of FATEs.

Personally, I think they might as well just make Atmas tradeable (which would mean sellable by default, so might as well add them to market boards too). The thing that really, really bugs me about the quest is that I can't do the first part with friends without whoever gets the first drop either being penalised and hanging around or splitting with the rest of the group to work on next Atma. If they were tradeable, then your party could stay in a zone until there have been drops for all who need them, trade them around so everyone has one, then move on to the next zone. But I know that's a crazy concept for an MMO, making an open world parties of friends to reach a goal together and help each other out! Maybe I should lay off the Moko grass.

Responsible disclosure: I got my last 5 Atma in about an hour, BUT I do want to get other Atma weapons, and I probably used this decades luck allowance up now.

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Originally Posted by SionDurant

But the current state of RNG for Atma is very atrocious, 30 hrs spent to show for 1 atma stone whereas my FC mates come in 3-5 HR's and get 11/12 or even 12/12. It's not a very balanced system considering.

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The SE RNG is weird, but these massive differences in drop rates shouldn't be possible even with this. It can't be coincidence and there must be some kind of system behind it.
It's more likely that each atma can have a different drop rate and nobody has figured out the system behind it yet. I think that all players that farm for atmas in just one area for hours are doing it wrong. So the best option for now seems to be to change areas frequently.

I would MUCH rather spend a full week doing 600 Fates (50 in each of the 12 areas) to obtain the pieces needed to upgrade, than to spend the last week doing Fates to have one piece.

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Originally Posted by SionDurant

Also a very small irritance: These fates count against my Challenge Log so I'm robbed of my EXP gain on my Bard or Monk.

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You gotta be kidding. Do the FATEs for your challenge log on BRD/MNK...THEN do your grinding. Why do you have to do the grinding first? Come on...

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Originally Posted by Clavaat

You gotta be kidding. Do the FATEs for your challenge log on BRD/MNK...THEN do your grinding. Why do you have to do the grinding first? Come on...

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XD whoa. That rage is wild, maybe you're kidding.

Why honestly would I do the BRD grind as priority if my priority is another class? Challenge Logs should be per class XD, why wouldn't they be? Why would I want to waste the XP for example of doing commendations on my WHM, so you're saying here for the commendation challenge I should purposely not commend a good tank while I'm on WHM because I want the XP for my BRD?

That seems kinda awful right?

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Originally Posted by SionDurant

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Because you still make 2k gil from doing it. If it were open to every job, the gil fountain would be incredible. This just forces you to actually think about what you're doing. As in "Oh, I want the Challenge log exp for my DR challenge. I'm one away. I guess I'll queue up as something that could use the exp." It's not hard, and it's a silly thing to say. If you don't care to lvl BRD, then don't level BRD. Or, you just do 9 different FATE's, switch to BRD, do 1, get your EXP, go back to your grind.

You made fairly interesting posts up until this point, don't ruin it by saying something stupid.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

Another way they could do it is have it as a complete xx amount of FATEs to obtain the atma, they could tie that into lore by saying something like once so many mobs have been defeated (but we would still use FATEs) the aether released by the slewen monsters would react with the Zenith and crystalise forming a type of crystal known as Atma. Also to tie seperate zones into lore they could say "the environment inwhich the aether crystalises seems to affect the type of Atma created."

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This sounds good.
But not only "do xx amount of FATEs in zone z", but more "do xx amount of boss FATEs and xx amount of enemy group FATEs in zone z" or people would only do the easier FATEs.

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Originally Posted by SionDurant

XD whoa. That rage is wild, maybe you're kidding.

Why honestly would I do the BRD grind as priority if my priority is another class? Challenge Logs should be per class XD, why wouldn't they be? Why would I want to waste the XP for example of doing commendations on my WHM, so you're saying here for the commendation challenge I should purposely not commend a good tank while I'm on WHM because I want the XP for my BRD?

That seems kinda awful right?

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Can't you just save the last FATE to get the challenge log and do it with your BRD/MNK? Like you do 9 fates, the 10th (cant remember the numbers right now) you do with your other class, then go back to atma farming =P

Personally i'd like to buy Atmas with seals, so I could fate farm or just hand in old/unneeded equipment to get some seals.

Lol, that was rage? Sounded like common sense.

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Originally Posted by CYoung187

Lol, that was rage? Sounded like common sense.

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It is,

I'm teasing I'm sorry. You're correct I could do my BRD stuff first but I won't because I consider the atma priority so I save my BRD for when I'm off on Sundays and Saturdays.

I also like the ideas people posted of making 12 Zodiac NM's, they could even add fun loots to these (maybe pure cosmetic drops). Do a nice little tie in to FFT? Maybe some of them are some of the Zodiac Brave monsters like Adramalech or Velius??

Sounds kinda sexy to me.

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Originally Posted by SionDurant

I also like the ideas people posted of making 12 Zodiac NM's, they could even add fun loots to these (maybe pure cosmetic drops). Do a nice little tie in to FFT? Maybe some of them are some of the Zodiac Brave monsters like Adramalech or Velius??

Sounds kinda sexy to me.

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Until you realize that NM's mean FATEs that you have no idea when they will spawn...

They should have just created and added 11 more global FATEs, ranging across all levels, that any player can participate in - each one with a boss that corresponds to a different zodiac creature. Honestly, the current system they have for Atma is so horrible and reeks of lazy, slipshod design.

Or they can just add "FATE Seals" which of course will be obtained by completing FATE's. They will work like Company seals only you use them to buy your ATMA's. This way, it removes all the RNG bullcrap and atleast you know you're working towards something.

woot i have 8 atma! i'm almost there. just 100 more atma to go to finish all my jobs! fun stuff

The "increased drop rate on progressive failure" actually sounds great. It's subtle enough - every time you complete an eligible FATE that doesn't drop an atma, the % drop rate of that atma goes up. When it does drop, the rate resets back to base. That way, there's at least knowledge that you're progressing towards it, as opposed to the feeling that you wasted time - which is the part that I think is really eating people right now. Spending an hour doing FATEs is a bit painful, but it's more painful if at the end you have nothing to really show for it.

I'd personally like Atmas to be able to be dropped even when not using a Zenith weapon, as that way I can do FATEs and at least get experience on lower-level classes while I work on it, even if the Atma itself doesn't drop.

anyone else tried the japanese time theory on reddit? an FC mate used that and has 2 animus weapons already

I tried, but I still can't figure it out what timezone to use T_T

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Originally Posted by Nomad-phx

anyone else tried the japanese time theory on reddit? an FC mate used that and has 2 animus weapons already

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Is one of them a shield by any chance?

That is still RNG, instead of RNG since people find it unfair and at a disadvantage. Why not make it every 10 Fates getting Gold and if it still doesn't drop, the drop rate will increased by 5%. This way if you are really unlucky, but keep doing it you will still make progress and still get the drop 100%. This will make it the Atma Quest still take long and awhile to get, but make it so everyone can still get it.

Can even make the percentage increased even lower or more Fates if they want to make it take longer.

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Originally Posted by Antanias

Is one of them a shield by any chance?

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No? Bow and blm rod. Dont know the names cause i dont pay attention to classes i dont use lol i think its like Artemis something animus and star something animus