Review of the current battle system

To me, it's sad to know SE really started to put auto-attack into FF14, and it's even more sad to know that this new auto-attack system is basically a copy of FF11 after more details are revealed.

So what happened to the current battle system? Why most (based on the votes) players don't like it?

In fact, when FF14 was first released, one of the few things in the game made me so excited is this battle system. Like the original FF14 team once said, "Even some parts of this game are still incomplete, we are still very proud to show our players the new battle system!" This system is very creative and unique among most OLGs, and provides the most flexibility for players to interact with different situations during a battle. Let me review what I learned about the system, and why I did really enjoy it.

One most unique characteristic of this battle system is it introduced the FTG concept into a regular RPG style battle to make is more exciting/interacting but without losing RPG's principal rules. This goal was successfully achieved by combining: action selection, action recovery lag, TP/MP, CD, and stamina.

During battle, when dealing different situations, players need to decide to use what action to response. Actions can be imagined as playing a battle card game. With various cards on hand, players are capable to make one best decision from various selections to efficiently response enemy's action. Each class has it's "ACE cards" (ex. GLA's Sential, THM's emulate, LNC's Twisting Vice, etc) at different ranks, therefore, players can create their own special jobs after getting more cards from different classes and combining together to be a specific personal battle card set for specific enemies. Consequently, knowing enemies' action patterns become more important because some cards may be only useful for some enemies and the number of cards is limited. The concept actually make FF14 get rid of transitional FF jobs' mechanical impression to reach another level - each player can make his own unique job. In fact, it's more reasonable, too. For example, in FF11, a person who already gain high level on the other multiple jobs (ex. SAM, WHM, etc.) will forgot most of what he has learned when he start to fight as an archer (level RNG as main), but in FF14, he won't, and those what he has learned before actually make him become a much better archer.

Every action follows a recovery lag, whether players or enemies. Recovering lag is the key to bring FTG concept into the battle. Keep clicking normal attack actions will help not much except run out stamina make you standing there look stupid. Especially when fighting hard enemies, players will be beat down easily while getting hits during recovery lag. In recovery lag, players can't move/evade and can't perform next action. Therefore, following the action section concept, considering the balance between actions and stamina, select right actions and right moments to construct your battle plan become very important and challenging (and fun, of course). Since same rules applied to enemies as well, players can use enemies' recovery lag to strike back. In FF14, attacking from different positions brings different possible impacts. For example, attacking from an enemy's side can have chance break enemy's action, and attacking from rear has higher chance to make critical attacks. Some actions also require a specific position to make them work well.

After understanding actions selections and recovery lag, now it's obvious that stamina and CD plays important roles in setting your action sets and battle plans. Because stamina and CD decide the rhythm of a battle. So with one well-considered plan, a player can make his battle looks very smooth (or even wild, elegant, sneaky, whatever the style you want for your job). More important thing is, enemies follow the same rules here. Therefore, now not only pre-action signs from enemies (ex. purple light before wolves use drain HP, red light before puks do tail swipe) can help players to decide what actions to use to response, but also the enemies attacking rhythm can be one very important invisible sign to give information that what enemies attempt to do. Big damage actions usually require more stamina, so when seeing an enemy's attack rhythm changes, players can be ready to prepare what happen next, including store stamina for a series reactions, magical buffs, even try to step aside. Furthermore, after enemy's big move done, you know that will follow by a recovery lag, so then you can use the stamina you prepared to give one splendid strike-back.

Based on the updated information, it's already known that most of previous exciting parts will be gone after auto-attack system is introduced. To be honest, our current battle system exactly improved the flaws and unreasonable parts from old one, and now SE is changing it back to old one without trying to tell players how good it is. In my opinion, what make all fun gone are not the battle system itself. The defected SP calculations and party system are the real reasons make players gone (of course, also the incomplete world...)

Hope this battle system will be back someday =)

It doesn't matter if you like it or if you think it is the absolute greatest thing ever. The fact of the matter is, majority rules, as evidenced by game flopping and on the brink of death. They can keep the current system and that would please you, but the majority will end up leaving it and eventually kill the game.

I don't really like the current system. It has it's good points but some very bad ones too, at least for me.

Stamina bar & UI are the worst to me. I do however like how I have complete control over my actions.

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Originally Posted by Dyne

It doesn't matter if you like it or if you think it is the absolute greatest thing ever. The fact of the matter is, majority rules, as evidenced by game flopping and on the brink of death. They can keep the current system and that would please you, but the majority will end up leaving it and eventually kill the game.

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Like I said, sometimes it's hard to have people enjoy a new game without teach them how to play, and those people can be the majority. In my opinion, it's just a little too fast to give up without actually showing the reasons why our current battle system was created in the very beginning. On the other hand, listen to the majority sometimes is worse than teach them, especially for a work required very unique and creative ideas, like a good game.

Stamina in it's current state was the downfall IMO. They should've either improved its function or removed it... instead they removed it AND are copying in FFXI's version of an 'auto-attack' (and probably verbatim too >.>).

I'm not really for or against an auo-attack feature being implemented... but it depends how it is implemented. I don't want to spend most of my time during encounters initiating auto-attack and watching my TP bar fill... it's counterproductive and even more boring.

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Originally Posted by Verecund

Stamina in it's current state was the downfall IMO. They should've either improved its function or removed it... instead they removed it AND are copying in FFXI's version of an 'auto-attack' (and probably verbatim too >.>).

I'm not really for or against an auo-attack feature being implemented... but it depends how it is implemented. I don't want to spend most of my time during encounters initiating auto-attack and watching my TP bar fill... it's counterproductive and even more boring.

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well they are apparently doing a lot of battle changes, i guess we ll see how entertaining this will end up.

after looking at the toggle aoe answer it occured to me.

they are basically going to kill or marginalize all unique elements of ffxiv battle. thinking about it and remembering what matsui said,

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Thank you for taking the time to pore over these words. Having read the blueprint, there is bound to be more than a few players who feel that we’ve only recited a handful of things common to all MMORPGs. There may be others still who are saddened - perhaps even piqued - that elements they felt made FINAL FANTASY XIV unique will be going to the cutting block.

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he starts off talking about the fact that it sounds like they are jacking all other MMOs. then he states that features that are unique will be killed off, i had thought this was just about AA, and maybe a few things getting cut, but nope. They are going to try to remake the battle in a classic MMO sense. Hence the old school job upgrade, traditional roles only. 1 class is 1 job. AoE Mage mechanics is going.

So basically they want to do regular MMO battle mechanics, and i guess all you can hope, is that they do it better than other developers. hmmmmmm sounds like ... bad. ehhh

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Originally Posted by Petori

I don't really like the current system. It has it's good points but some very bad ones too, at least for me.

Stamina bar & UI are the worst to me. I do however like how I have complete control over my actions.

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the stamina bar replaced the action bar in the alpha which was essentially the same thing. I don't feel the UI is overly
bad. It's a lot better then it was. but it still needs some more fine tuning. really with the amount of actions the game has.
they could have had every action having a separate recast time forcing people to use multiple actions, speeding up combat and cutting down on one key spam. make everything map able on keyboard mouse and game pad and they would have a great system.

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Originally Posted by Physic

So basically they want to do regular MMO battle mechanics, and i guess all you can hope, is that they do it better than other developers. hmmmmmm sounds like ... bad. ehhh

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Speaking of unique or creative battle mechanics, in fact, there is nothing can be called "unique/creative" in the recent auto-attack demo video. It is amusing when thinking this way: If that demo video was showed before FFXIV was released, players with common sense would find out very quickly that it is really nothing but another bland battle mechanics. It is even more amusing to know that SE deliberately put two new action models and change the BGM to cover the fact that what they showed is one out-of-date battle mechanics (and it worked to "the majority").

I could of liked the current battle system if the classes weren't all just the same thing with different names. The game has so much fail in it that you can't say a single aspect of it is good without it being brought down by something else that was completely moronic to implement in the first place.

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Originally Posted by allenshu

Speaking of unique or creative battle mechanics, in fact, there is nothing can be called "unique/creative" in the recent auto-attack demo video. It is amusing when thinking this way: If that demo video was showed before FFXIV was released, players with common sense would find out very quickly that it is really nothing but another bland battle mechanics. It is even more amusing to know that SE deliberately put two new action models and change the BGM to cover the fact that what they showed is one out-of-date battle mechanics (and it worked to "the majority").

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the 2 new battle animations were the best part of what they showed. But i guess people will argue that it was just an AA video, and the interesting changes are coming, but looking back at matsuis post, he is essentially saying, i plan on using standard MMO systems, but i hope to make it good.

See my thoughts here

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...11131-Be-brave

Current Battle system is slow and boring. :X

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Originally Posted by Greencactaur

Current Battle system is slow and boring. :X

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then you wont like the new one either, it isnt any faster. and how entertaining either battles system is will be more about the enemies you fight.

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Originally Posted by Physic

the 2 new battle animations were the best part of what they showed. But i guess people will argue that it was just an AA video, and the interesting changes are coming, but looking back at matsuis post, he is essentially saying, i plan on using standard MMO systems, but i hope to make it good.

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I just hope there's more to it for PUG...it left me wanting.

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Originally Posted by Blitz0309

I could of liked the current battle system if the classes weren't all just the same thing with different names. The game has so much fail in it that you can't say a single aspect of it is good without it being brought down by something else that was completely moronic to implement in the first place.

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The freedom of allowing to set actions across classes doesn't mean you have to set exact same ones. Also, the freedom of using stamina to perform actions doesn't mean you have to keep clicking normal attacks. With these freedoms, players themselves are those who decide to have a great or tedious battle, not the game.

Back to class differentials, even there are still some flaws, I think current class system still make each has it's own specialty. Let's take LNC for example, LNC can be a very great supportive job in a battle. Combining with it's fast-move trait and natural long attack range, LNC can always step to a good position to attack enemies. For one single tough enemy, LNC can focus on reduce and even erase TP to make the enemy have less chance to use big damage actions. Also, attacking from side to break enemy's posture can give chances to interrupt enemy's on-going actions. That not only buys more breath room to your party, also efficaciously waste enemy's stamina and force it to enter more recovery lag. For multiple enemies, LNC's Pierce can earn fast TP for greater damage AE actions, and it's AE stun also very helpful to break multiple damage actions casting from enemies simultaneously. Things above are required LNC's fast movement speed and long attack range to perform efficiently. What happens if you like this style but you just don't like man with a lance? FF14 provides a freedom to allow you to bring the concept to the other jobs. However, if you simply copy same actions and play the same way, you will never perform better than a real LNC. Therefore, why not mix with the other jobs' specialties to create another style? Then a new unique style is created, and that style is belong to you.

Same principles can be applied to all classes. Take ARC for another example. It's longest attack range can give one clear view of on-going battle situation. Therefore, using different supportive magics to either support teammates or enfeeble enemies at crucial moments can create different ARC styles. On the other hand, ARC can stock arrows while sneaking behind an enemy and make one deadly shot from the rear (attack from rear has higher chance making critical attack). Because the nature of ARC is away from battle field, so he has more flexibility to control his own battle rhythm. Holding breath (prepare arrows, stamina, TP) and reload a series of deadly shots at right position and right moment, ARC and close a battle in seconds without let enemies have chance to use big damage actions, like a real sniper.

I think most of these will be gone when auto-attack system is back. In addition, if actions and status are limited with classes/jobs, then it's obvious that your job will be not much different with someone else job. Or we may say the only difference will be if you can spend a lot time in your life to get god gears to make you look a little special than the others. In other words, without the freedoms we have now, FF14 will be just another OLG for players to chase gears and dmg/exp per hour.

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Originally Posted by allenshu

I think most of these will be gone when auto-attack system is back. In addition, if actions and status are limited with classes/jobs, then it's obvious that your job will be not much different with someone else job. Or the we may say the only difference will be if you can spend a lot time in your life to get god gears to make you look a little special than the others. In other words, without the freedoms we have now, FF14 will be another game for players to chase gears and exp per hour.

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which sadly sounds like the plan.

When I heard about the stamina bar in FFXIV I instantly though that this would be how the battle system would work and was pretty excited about that:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-pzptgE4a4

Sadly it was too slow and clunky and I couldn't stack moves up in the bar and hold them to unleash a combo attack as well as I would have liked.

If they could get it working like in FFXIII with the speed and fluidity I would be very happy, also they can take a look at some of the spell animations from that vid too ^^

What FFXIV's stamina system (to me) was suppposed to represent was an online FF13 with TP and MP.

We choose actions of varied efficiency, once the appropriate Stamina is available (or ATB gauge), we can execute. But likewise, we could stockpile and execute several actions in quick succession if we wanted.

Factor in TP and MP and now there are even more actions (although now we have to use the ATB gauge too).

Key in a party of up to fifteen people at FF13 pace, that's what I saw the height of this current system at.

The manual attack scene isn't new to MMOs though (Asheron's Call, aim low/mid/high, execute a quick attack or charge a strong one, discover if an enemy is more susceptible to slashing, piercing, or crushing).

Like I says, I was hoping for FF13 pace in the stamina system, but a lot of mechanics feels unfinished. But hoping for the best in either case.

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Originally Posted by Fiosha_Maureiba

What FFXIV's stamina system (to me) was suppposed to represent was an online FF13 with TP and MP.

We choose actions of varied efficiency, once the appropriate Stamina is available (or ATB gauge), we can execute. But likewise, we could stockpile and execute several actions in quick succession if we wanted.

Factor in TP and MP and now there are even more actions (although now we have to use the ATB gauge too).

Key in a party of up to fifteen people at FF13 pace, that's what I saw the height of this current system at.

The manual attack scene isn't new to MMOs though (Asheron's Call, aim low/mid/high, execute a quick attack or charge a strong one, discover if an enemy is more susceptible to slashing, piercing, or crushing).

Like I says, I was hoping for FF13 pace in the stamina system, but a lot of mechanics feels unfinished. But hoping for the best in either case.

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Hehe check my post above ^^

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Originally Posted by allenshu

The freedom of allowing to set actions across classes doesn't mean you have to set exact same ones. Also, the freedom of using stamina to perform actions doesn't mean you have to keep clicking normal attacks. With these freedoms, players themselves are those who decide to have a great or tedious battle, not the game.

Back to class differentials, even there are still some flaws, I think current class system still make each has it's own specialty. Let's take LNC for example, LNC can be a very great supportive job in a battle. Combining with it's fast-move trait and natural long attack range, LNC can always step to a good position to attack enemies. For one single tough enemy, LNC can focus on reduce and even erase TP to make the enemy have less chance to use big damage actions. Also, attacking from side to break enemy's posture can give chances to interrupt enemy's on-going actions. That not only buys more breath room to your party, also efficaciously waste enemy's stamina and force it to enter more recovery lag. For multiple enemies, LNC's Pierce can earn fast TP for greater damage AE actions, and it's AE stun also very helpful to break multiple damage actions casting from enemies simultaneously. Things above are required LNC's fast movement speed and long attack range to perform efficiently. What happens if you like this style but you just don't like man with a lance? FF14 provides a freedom to allow you to bring the concept to the other jobs. However, if you simply copy same actions and play the same way, you will never perform better than a real LNC. Therefore, why not mix with the other jobs' specialties to create another style? Then a new unique style is created, and that style is belong to you.

Same principles can be applied to all classes. Take ARC for another example. It's longest attack range can give one clear view of on-going battle situation. Therefore, using different supportive magics to either support teammates or enfeeble enemies at crucial moments can create different ARC styles. On the other hand, ARC can stock arrows while sneaking behind an enemy and make one deadly shot from the rear (attack from rear has higher chance making critical attack). Because the nature of ARC is away from battle field, so he has more flexibility to control his own battle rhythm. Holding breath (prepare arrows, stamina, TP) and reload a series of deadly shots at right position and right moment, ARC and close a battle in seconds without let enemies have chance to use big damage actions, like a real sniper.

I think most of these will be gone when auto-attack system is back. In addition, if actions and status are limited with classes/jobs, then it's obvious that your job will be not much different with someone else job. Or we may say the only difference will be if you can spend a lot time in your life to get god gears to make you look a little special than the others. In other words, without the freedoms we have now, FF14 will be just another OLG for players to chase gears and dmg/exp per hour.

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What you are saying is what most of us 'thought" the system would be like, heck i think the devs where thinking it too. The truth of it is that half those ideas are plain old ruined by stupid decisions that were put in the game. ex:

LNC was supposed to be this middle range fighter, but the fact that even at its furthest reach, all AoEs (that ive seen) still hit them, heck even if they turn to do an attack they still reach. Then the buff/debuff part, that would be great if battles actually lasted, and the effects were actually worth a damn (same goes for mages debuffs).

Then the ARC...which was ruined right away with the (imo dumbest thing ive seen) giving pretty much every single mob ranged attacks, making the whole "be at a distance" or kite structure (that was one of the points to giving them the speed boost ability i assumed) and throwing that out the window.

Then there is the fact of mixing magic with non-mage classes. Particularly pre-the MP regen, it was almost pointless for most DoW to even bother with. You heals were crap, you couldnt AoE, and the already mostly pointless debuffs were now even more useless. So basically it came down to the solo buffs.

In theory the class system was fantastic, in reality it was destroyed by tons of little missteps that added up to making most cool ideas null and void. For you to say "I think most of these will be gone when auto-attack system is back" i say...Were they really there in the first place?

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Originally Posted by Zanfire

What you are saying is what most of us 'thought" the system would be like, heck i think the devs where thinking it too. The truth of it is that half those ideas are plain old ruined by stupid decisions that were put in the game. ex:

LNC was supposed to be this middle range fighter, but the fact that even at its furthest reach, all AoEs (that ive seen) still hit them, heck even if they turn to do an attack they still reach. Then the buff/debuff part, that would be great if battles actually lasted, and the effects were actually worth a damn (same goes for mages debuffs).

Then the ARC...which was ruined right away with the (imo dumbest thing ive seen) giving pretty much every single mob ranged attacks, making the whole "be at a distance" or kite structure (that was one of the points to giving them the speed boost ability i assumed) and throwing that out the window.

Then there is the fact of mixing magic with non-mage classes. Particularly pre-the MP regen, it was almost pointless for most DoW to even bother with. You heals were crap, you couldnt AoE, and the already mostly pointless debuffs were now even more useless. So basically it came down to the solo buffs.

In theory the class system was fantastic, in reality it was destroyed by tons of little missteps that added up to making most cool ideas null and void. For you to say "I think most of these will be gone when auto-attack system is back" i say...Were they really there in the first place?

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lancer does work out of the range of many aoe. in the stamina system you can also move without losing dps, and lancer moves less than other classes to get out of aoe range.

It was really a playstyle thing and many people didnt take advantage because the system didnt force you, and they definitely never showed people how to take advantage of various things.

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Originally Posted by Zanfire

In theory the class system was fantastic, in reality it was destroyed by tons of little missteps that added up to making most cool ideas null and void. For you to say "I think most of these will be gone when auto-attack system is back" i say...Were they really there in the first place?

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It's not in theory... it's how I play the game.

What ruined the game most is SP and party system, and of course, plus the incomplete world. Fighting tough enemies with less people doesn't provide efficient sp gain, and also, those players who don't really know how to bring skills into full play got knocked out easily in such situations. Accordingly, players go adjust difficulty of a leve or simply have more people to conveniently win a battle in a short time, and then they come back to complain the battle system is boring. This actually save SE a lot cost/energy to perform their "improving" plan. Adjusting SP gain and party system based on our current battle mechanics is much harder than simply replacing with old one (auto-attack), not to mention creating new enemies and even areas to let players discover how they can play their classes well.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

Hehe check my post above ^^

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Doh! That's what I get for not refreshing before piecemeal typing for a half hour, hehe

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Originally Posted by allenshu

It's not in theory... it's how I play the game.

What ruined the game most is SP and party system, and of course, plus the incomplete world. Fighting tough enemies with less people doesn't provide efficient sp gain, and also, those players who don't really know how to bring skills into full play got knocked out easily in such situations. Accordingly, players go adjust difficulty of a leve or simply have more people to conveniently win a battle in a short time, and then they come back to complain the battle system is boring. This actually save SE a lot cost/energy to perform their "improving" plan. Adjusting SP gain and party system based on our current battle mechanics is much harder than simply replacing with old one (auto-attack), not to mention creating new enemies and even areas to let players discover how they can play their classes well.

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It doesn't matter HOW you play, the fact is they screwed up things that made some of the great ideas either not worth it or have no use. There was a lot more wrong then just SP and party, though they did factor in for sure. Just look at some of the examples i gave, they arent really wrong, but if you wanted to the illusion that some of it worked...well when playing by yourself its all fine, but it does not disregard that fact that things were not implemented well.

I don't like current battle system and I'm glad they revise it.
I feel sick every time I play melee job ( not feel fun at all )
So I end up with take a break till it getting better :D

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Originally Posted by Zanfire

It doesn't matter HOW you play, the fact is they screwed up things that made some of the great ideas either not worth it or have no use. There was a lot more wrong then just SP and party, though they did factor in for sure. Just look at some of the examples i gave, they arent really wrong, but if you wanted to the illusion that some of it worked...well when playing by yourself its all fine, but it does not disregard that fact that things were not implemented well.

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It matters when someone said it's just a "thought" or only "in theory"...

The title of this thread was named as "review", means I don't attempt to make any change to SE's current plan or challenge "the majority". Just at the moment right before our current battle system disappears, maybe we can look back and ask ourselves if we really know this battle system well enough.

Once, our current battle system was one valuable treasure of FF14 and a proud of Tanaka-P to present to all FF players. Why all the sudden, SE decided to take it out so easily without at least trying to explain why it was there in the beginning? It's really because they want to improve and bring a great game to be worthy of the FF title. Or, it's simply because it's the most cheap and quick way to earn short-term advantages, and ironically, that's the same reason why FF14 was released before it was ready.

^ not sure your getting what im saying, but im kind of lost on what your saying back at this point so il leave it there...

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Originally Posted by Zanfire

^ not sure your getting what im saying, but im kind of lost on what your saying back at this point so il leave it there...

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I just tried to say in brief that those I mentioned are not illusion or something only in theory. They do work, and that's how I play the game. Furthermore, perhaps some players reading this thread can try those by themselves to see if those are still illusion to them. Maybe they will still dislike, or maybe they will start to enjoy the fun... in the days while we still have the current battle system.

Thanks for joining the discussion. Your participation helps this thread keep at the first page for a while (*'ω')

Final Fantasy XIV Battle System:

Good idea... bad execution.

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Originally Posted by Bled

Final Fantasy XIV Battle System:

Good idea... bad execution.

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that pretty much summed up what i was going for.

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Originally Posted by Physic

lancer does work out of the range of many aoe. in the stamina system you can also move without losing dps, and lancer moves less than other classes to get out of aoe range.

It was really a playstyle thing and many people didnt take advantage because the system didnt force you, and they definitely never showed people how to take advantage of various things.

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Agree.

There are many options/styles for one lancer to deal with incoming aoe.
1. Use Twisting Vice to erase the target's tp then aoe won't go (combine with Hawk's Eye for better chance hit).
2. Use Leg Sweep (for ground enemies) to stun targets then aoe won't go (combine with Hawk's Eye for better chance hit).
3. Use pierce type actions to attack the target from side to earn chance to interrupt the incoming action (seems greater damage gives better chance to interrupt, so can try combine attack-up buff).
4. Use Diversion for one 100% evade (following by casting cure on tank to guarantee his survive, or using Moonrise afterward to slow next possible incoming aoe).

For all these options, main actions are belong to lancer and some in () are from the other classes to make him perform better. If we can include other classes' actions as main move and then combine with the other different ones, then there are even more options/styles to go. Furthermore, in general, by knowing the fact that most enemies will enter action-mode after HP less than 50% and being able to read enemy's attack rhythm change, there are even more options to do to prevent a big damage aoe landing (ex. drain TP or use Paralyze around target 50% HP). Of course, running away is also a style :p

PS. This reminds me seeing some players complain that Paralyze is broken because it doesn't last long and has long CD. I think these complaints simply tell they don't know how to use the spell right in FF14...

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Originally Posted by Bled

Final Fantasy XIV Battle System:

Good idea... bad execution.

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While it can be true, not really, in the greater scheme of things. You can't say "good idea" when there is so much wrong with it, the idea isn't even solid enough to be an idea anymore.

There are multiple levels of problems with the battle system, from balance to annoyance, and beyond.

The first problem is over redunant. It has variable animation delay, stamina, TP, MP, recast timer. All these will prevent one action into another.

Why must I keep track of every single one? They all do the same thing in the end, to prevent you from using skills in abuse.

That leads us to unbalancing problem. Skills were horribly imbalance. Why do people spam 1111? because it is the single fastest, and rapid use skill. It has the fastest animation time(meaning you can do more in the shortest amount of time) It has the no recast/MP/TP time. It's efficiency made it immeasurable compared to a good many other skills.

Skills selection is also a problem stemming from that. Most skills simply weren't worth it. It made strategy a quick sloppy mess. You are only in self delusions if you think massive micro management of skills is at all needed. You can get the same efficiency from 1 long string of "uber" rotation. I can go 111111, cure, WS ,WS ,WS, repeat knowing it has almost near perfect battle effectiveness.

This lead to annoyance of the total need for manual control which is really just mindless repetition, and zerg like timing(faster = better) that ultimately turns it into a shallow battle system (one-trick pony).

It is basically button mashing FF11. Which is why AA became a topic. I am not getting anything I couldn't get with more hassle and less depth.

They fell into the idea that more interactive meant more inputs. That was is the "core" of the flaw of FF14 battles. And it's a hard nut to crack, which is why we're abandoning it.

Skills needed to be whittled down. You do not need to be pressing massive buttons on an enemy that's basically going to react the exact same way. You need a smarter enemy to make a difference, which is sadly impossible for MMO RPGS.

You need less "down time" modifiers. Stamina or TP or even MP should go. You don't need that many. They do the almost the exact same thing.

And once it boils down to it, what are you really doing different...not much. It just feels interesting because your fingers are moving.

It's all smoke and mirrors battle system in the end. And reason Idea AND execution are both wrong.

If FF14 has a speck of creativity when it created this horrible battle system, it would play much more like Diablo 2 combat. Which emphasized, movement, position, and accurate use of skills. And have techniques such as free, slow, wall, rapid movement, etc. Anyone playing D2 will know that you don't used that many skills per "battle" in fact it's better to be using very few skills. It's all about a tactical abuse of situational ability. Not the stupidity of FF14, stand and mash buttons.

there are some unique things about the current battel system but, unique != good. The fact renaims that the current battle system has fundamental flaws, and if we ever want any sort of difficulty it'll need to be changed.