Unrealistic ilvl requeriment

What the hell was SE thinking when they made, for example, Pharos Sirius ilvl requeriment just 48.... LOL This is not CT, where under geared people can be carried by highly geared players. I just fail to see the reasoning behind the ilvl requeriments for Hardmode dungeons and Pharaos Sirius. It should be more than ilvl48. Maybe SE didnt tried em enough before launching?
What else could it be?

requirement

Pretty much everything in there is harder the higher your dps is

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Originally Posted by saber_alter

so people don't walk into it still wearing the minimum gear requirement for brayflox's longstop.

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OP is complaining that the level requirement is too low, not too high.

These requirements aren't an indication of the level of gear required to do these fights. They're just there to stop people with excessively low gear from getting in. I mean, the ilvl for Titan EM is 67 (if I remember properly, not logged in at the moment). The majority of players wanted higher than that just for Titan HM, you really think they would assume people could do Titan EM in that gear? No.

These are in no way meant to be the ilvl's they expect us to play them at. It's better to have it lower and accept more people than it is to set it to, say, 80 for Titan EM and lock out the people at 75 who can easily do it.

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Originally Posted by Madoka

Pretty much everything in there is harder the higher your dps is

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She get a point here. The 1st boss of Pharos Sirius spawn more adds as his life goes down, which mean that if he's DPS'd too fast you will be crowded with them. Most of the time the DPS of the party don't want to understand that, why idk, must be the pride of the DPS prolly... & they don't really care about the adds either, which become a problem.

Now Idk for the Manor HM as I did not unlock it yet (Pharos was enough of a mistake to unlock for Duty Roulette.) But its what I could observe, and when the DPS of your party ask you to run after the adds while kitting boss you know that there is a problem...

It's set low so people from an fc can get their alts in and play together while still having a shot at the boss.

These requirements confuse me, so you're not alone. The idea is to stop undergeared people getting into content, though the requirements are too low; item level 65 for Garuda Extreme is too low; an item level 90 tank takes heavy damage from those Wicked Wheels, so a level 65 tank would have absolutely no chance, I honestly don't know what they were thinking there.

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Originally Posted by Megido

It's set low so people from an fc can get their alts in and play together while still having a shot at the boss.

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I understand this logic, but then why is there a requirement at all for premade groups? If a Free Company wants to wear snowmen outfits to Titan Hard Mode, I don't see why not.

They should remove the item level requirement from premade groups and increase it for Duty Finder groups.

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Originally Posted by Ashira

These requirements confuse me, so you're not alone. The idea is to stop undergeared people getting into content, though the requirements are too low; item level 65 for Garuda Extreme is too low; an item level 90 tank takes heavy damage from those Wicked Wheels, so a level 65 tank would have absolutely no chance, I honestly don't know what they were thinking there.

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Except that the double-WW strat is somewhat unnecessarily hard on tanks. I wonder how well the triangle strat would work with an ilvl 65 party. . .

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Originally Posted by Ashira

They should remove the item level requirement from premade groups and increase it for Duty Finder groups.

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I think this could help. At least slightly raising the ilvl requeriments!

God forbid se makes some content that is hard. It can be done at that ilvl

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Originally Posted by KoujiGeki

God forbid se makes some content that is hard. It can be done at that ilvl

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Complete Garuda Extreme with a party of all item level 65 and I'll bow down and kiss your feet. I had a higher item level than that my first time around on Garuda Hard Mode.

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Originally Posted by Ashira

Complete Garuda Extreme with a party of all item level 65 and I'll bow down and kiss your feet. I had a higher item level than that my first time around on Garuda Hard Mode.

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Then you were over-geared.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Then you were over-geared.

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I wanted to give myself and my team the best chance possible. This was back before people had their Relics on our server, so we were all below item level 70 for Garuda, and we certainly didn't feel overgeared.

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Originally Posted by Ashira

I wanted to give myself and my team the best chance possible. This was back before people had their Relics on our server, so we were all below item level 70 for Garuda, and we certainly didn't feel overgeared.

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Ilvl 70 on a fight that drops ilvl 70 is overgearing it, whether you "feel overgeared" or not.

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Originally Posted by Ashira

They should remove the item level requirement from premade groups and increase it for Duty Finder groups.

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Would that change anything? You would still face people who doesn't communicate/doesn't know the job they are playing because they geared it using another job to farm myths/idiots who leave after 1 fail & so on.

Anyway this is another debate, Skill =/= gear, its what SE had in mind. If people were actualy taking the time to try to make it work whatever iLv is high or not, this problem wouldn't exist in the 1szt place.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Ilvl 70 on a fight that drops ilvl 70 is overgearing it, whether you "feel overgeared" or not.

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Only I wouldn't have been item level 70; as I had an Ifrit weapon and an AK ring. I would have been more around the 66-67 mark. I don't know what any of this has to do with the topic though.

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Originally Posted by Gandora

Would that change anything? You would still face people who doesn't communicate/doesn't know the job they are playing because they geared it using another job to farm myths/idiots who leave after 1 fail & so on.

Anyway this is another debate, Skill =/= gear, its what SE had in mind. If people were actualy taking the time to try to make it work whatever iLv is high or not, this problem wouldn't exist in the 1szt place.

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Removing the item level requirement for premades would be nice, as I see no reason for there to be one. As for increasing the level on most Duty Finder groups, absolutely. I dare say some of these trials are impossible at the current entry level. Raising the bar wouldn't make bad players good, but at least you'd be put in with other people who are at least geared for the content.

I believe that skill is more important than gear, but skill will only get you so far. A full group of item level 65 would not meet any of the DPS checks in Garuda Extreme.

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Originally Posted by Ashira

Only I wouldn't have been item level 70; as I had an Ifrit weapon and an AK ring. I would have been more around the 66-67 mark. I don't know what any of this has to do with the topic though.

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66-67 is still higher than you need for Garuda hard, by a long shot. Just because you didn't feel you were overgeared doesn't mean you weren't.

The relation to the topic at hand is that a lot of people seem to vastly over-estimate what item level is actually *required* to complete content. You don't believe GX can be done at 65, stating that you had a higher ilvl than that when you did GH. I'm asserting that you were overgeared for GH, and that GX most likely *is* doable at ilvil 65.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

66-67 is still higher than you need for Garuda hard, by a long shot. Just because you didn't feel you were overgeared doesn't mean you weren't.

The relation to the topic at hand is that a lot of people seem to vastly over-estimate what item level is actually *required* to complete content. You don't believe GX can be done at 65, stating that you had a higher ilvl than that when you did GH. I'm asserting that you were overgeared for GH, and that GX most likely *is* doable at ilvil 65.

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I had more gear that was needed, I understand that. I just highly doubt we were more than 20 item levels over the requirement as the Duty Finder would have you believe.

I don't think Garuda Extreme is doable with an item level 65 party. I welcome anyone to prove me otherwise though.

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Originally Posted by Ashira

I had more gear that was needed, I understand that. I just highly doubt we were more than 20 item levels over the requirement as the Duty Finder would have you believe.

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Ilvl requirement for GH is 52, apparently. I'd say it's definitely doable at that level. I'm not saying an ilvl 65 GX would be *easy*, but I think it's doable, and would be willing to work with anyone who wants to prove it.

Well youngin...BACK IN THE DAY, when we started...we were clearing AK in artifact gear and lv 30 accessories.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Ilvl requirement for GH is 52, apparently. I'd say it's definitely doable at that level. I'm not saying an ilvl 65 GX would be *easy*, but I think it's doable, and would be willing to work with anyone who wants to prove it.

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I don't know.. I've been in i75 (minimum) groups for GX and most times first set of sisters aren't killed fast enough. That could be a "skill" issue more so than "gear" issue, but the problem with Garuda XM in particular is if you don't clear each phase fast enough it just repeats and repeats, that's why they call it a DPS check, I guess.

If you had a good group I don't see any reason a I65 group couldn't down Garuda EX. You would need a setup which used none of the same jobs, especially for the WAR with added DPS and the faster limit gauge. But as I have been gearing my other classes I have noticed that an I65 rating can have say an I80/90 weapon and some DL/ Old AK gear mix (like Peltgast, Hoplite, etc.) The reason I see people fail even with I90 is because they just aren't very good players.

As an example, I have played in groups that both had higher Item levels, one took about 5 tornado cycles and the other took 2. Its all about how well you can play your classes. Item level can be very deceiving, my MNK is full DL except one piece with Hellish Claws and is only I73. So that's an I90 weapon and I forgot also the I80 fuma body from CT.

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Originally Posted by Makado

As an example, I have played in groups that both had higher Item levels, one took about 5 tornado cycles and the other took 2. Its all about how well you can play your classes. Item level can be very deceiving, my MNK is full DL except one piece with Hellish Claws and is only I73. So that's an I90 weapon and I forgot also the I80 fuma body from CT.

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Gear certainly doesn't equal skill. You can have an almost entirely item level 90 character without ever setting foot inside a Dungeon for starters. We're not taking skill into account here, because we're talking about item levels; A has nothing to do with B.

Assume a team of skilled item level 85 members kill Garuda flawlessly, then they all switch out into item level 65 gear. I don't see them meeting the Suprana and Chirada DPS checks, regardless of how well they play their classes. It's all conjecture though, I don't have any proof it can't be done; I'd actually like to be proven wrong here.

It's possible to do Garuda EX in item level 65 gear by exploiting flaws with the item level calculations. If everyone is averaging i65, but are all decked out in five-melded crafted gear all with the best possible materia you could put in, I can see it being done.

The reason Squee makes the item level requirements low is pretty simple. They know their own itemization is flawed, and some lower item level items are better than higher item level items (especially for bard, but for other classes as well). My bard gear averages item level 68 and can outdamage bards in full Ballad Set simply because the item level 80 set is poorly itemized.

The "requirement" only really exists so that people can't troll by queueing in wearing a bikini or running around in vendor-bought stuff they intend to spiritbind and convert.

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Originally Posted by synaesthetic

The "requirement" only really exists so that people can't troll by queueing in wearing a bikini or running around in vendor-bought stuff they intend to spiritbind and convert.

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They can queue in item level 65 gear then change once they're inside.

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Originally Posted by Ashira

They can queue in item level 65 gear then change once they're inside.

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Well, then, that's even sillier. The item level requirement seems to be something of a "let's humor them" choice made by the developers to mollify people who complain about wiping in the duty finder.

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Originally Posted by Ashira

Removing the item level requirement for premades would be nice, as I see no reason for there to be one. As for increasing the level on most Duty Finder groups, absolutely. I dare say some of these trials are impossible at the current entry level. Raising the bar wouldn't make bad players good, but at least you'd be put in with other people who are at least geared for the content.

I believe that skill is more important than gear, but skill will only get you so far. A full group of item level 65 would not meet any of the DPS checks in Garuda Extreme.

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So you want to be able to go into Pharos Sirius with ilevel average of 47 or lower?
Or Ifrit Extreme with i69 or lower?

One way to get i48 average is for example:
Ifrit 2H weapon
CT Head, Body, Belt
Myth Gloves, Pants and Shoes
and no accessories at all...
Or some other mix that gives 48...
Would such a person be able to do all of the i48 content? Likely.

Going for i48 with AF and mediocre unmelded accessories? Would probably be hard to complete.

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

So you want to be able to go into Pharos Sirius with ilevel average of 47 or lower?
Or Ifrit Extreme with i69 or lower?

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You agree with me then that item level requirement needs raising?

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Originally Posted by Ashira

You agree with me then that item level requirement needs raising?

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You can't base it around Item Level. I've seen players wearing i90 tank jewelry for extra vit. In and of itself one ring isn't that bad, but stuff like that can add up and skirt the iLv requirements.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

I don't know.. I've been in i75 (minimum) groups for GX and most times first set of sisters aren't killed fast enough. That could be a "skill" issue more so than "gear" issue, but the problem with Garuda XM in particular is if you don't clear each phase fast enough it just repeats and repeats, that's why they call it a DPS check, I guess.

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I can almost guarantee you that it was a skill issue.

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Originally Posted by Ashira

You agree with me then that item level requirement needs raising?

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Well I thought you said you wanted to remove the ilvl requirement for premades...
And others already pointed out it's pointless to raise them as people would skirt the requirements anyway with accessories not intended for the role they are going as.
I think things were worse before the ilvl requirement, but that's just me.

The more skilled you are, the lower ilvl average you can finish content with.
It might be that to actually clear Pharos Sirius as an example at i48 average, you need to be both highly skilled and have gear/accessories optimally melded.
Sort of how like i70 optimally melded gear can be used to take on stuff that otherwise might need higher ilevel gear.