will there ever be a dps war?

I would love to see a dual wield war, I had the best time in ff11 as a duel war. Will there be one in FF14?

If by duel war, you mean a dual-wielding WAR, then I would say most likely no as that would require a different weapon setup than WAR or MRD which would not work with the way the class/armoury setup works in this game.

However a DPS class coming off of MRD, such as Dark Knight or Berzerker or something like that is both possible and fairly likely. I personally hope for Dark Knight.

While i'm sure there will be e dual wielding class its unlikely it will be warrior it will probably be added as a seperate class

Not unless DRK is going to use a two handed axe, I think Berserker will be the job for MRD, fits the feeling of the class and uses the same weapon.

As much as people want to see a great sword or scythe for DRK I think Yoshi is going to go the way of one handed sword for the job

I wanna say MRD's DPS class is going to be viking! =D it would fit the lore of la noscea too. I could see a dual wield one hand axe class coming out later though, but I suspect first DW class will be thf with ninja as its first job.

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Originally Posted by Gumbercules

I wanna say MRD's DPS class is going to be viking! =D it would fit the lore of la noscea too. I could see a dual wield one hand axe class coming out later though, but I suspect first DW class will be thf with ninja as its first job.

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I would love to see Viking but it is an axe and shield job, and a tanking class that used Provoke as its primary ability.

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Originally Posted by Crios

I would love to see Viking but it is an axe and shield job, and a tanking class that used Provoke as its primary ability.

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way to burst my bubble! ; ; ff 3 warrior was the dps like job and viking the tank like job so they could just swap it around :P

Would love it personally.....but I love tanking and would prefer the Viking to stay tank....because cant think of a better job for my char Olaf

Dual wield would most likely be a rogue class. But I could see perhaps a heavy hitting dps knight or something that uses two handed weapons. Both of these are common RPG classes.

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Originally Posted by Crios

Not unless DRK is going to use a two handed axe, I think Berserker will be the job for MRD, fits the feeling of the class and uses the same weapon.
As much as people want to see a great sword or scythe for DRK I think Yoshi is going to go the way of one handed sword for the job

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While it is likely that DRK will be a DPS job coming off of GLD, it is not entirely impossible for DRK to use a different weapon.
In the first usage of DRK in the series (FF2) the character Leon used many different weapons such as spears and axes as well. It wasn't until FF4 with Cecil that they made more of an explicit connection with DRK and sword usage. Then of course there is FFXI, where DRK used scythes.

Final Fantasy as a series has always been somewhat flexible with reinterpreting the classes and they way they function in different iterations. While the core theme and often a classic ability is shared through out, a lot changes. A perfect example is Blue Mage, where originally they were a more heavily armed and armoured casting class that learned and could then use monster abilities as magic. They wore capes and masks. Then there are characters like Relm and Gau from FF6, that in many ways were reinterpretations of Blue Mage, where they would learn and use monster abilities to fight, Relm by "painting" a monster that would come alive and attack and Gau by using his wild nature to learn the ways of the beasts and then be able to mimic their attacks.

Point being, classes and jobs could easily be reinterpreted by the dev team to work within the constructs of this game, just look at SCH.
I personally would like for the devs to make the classes/jobs work more from the game-play side of things while keeping the theme and flavor of the classic class instead of limiting themselves to trying to do a literal translation of them.

The reason I like DRK coming from MRD is that I feel it works better from a game-play perspective since I feel that more of the MRD abilities would work for DRK.

But DRK aside and more on topic, whatever Job they choose next to branch off of MRD it will most likely be a DPS job.

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

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I agree the devs do have the choice of where things come from and yes I feel the next Job for MRD is going to be a DPS.

The other reason I see DRK using single handed swords and coming from GLD is also from the FF universe in FF Tactics, and FF3 where their main weapons again were single handed swords, between this and Cecil who made DRK iconic in the FF universe, is what leads me to believe this.

As for other jobs who knows what will be down the line.

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Originally Posted by Crios

I think Berserker will be the job for MRD, fits the feeling of the class and uses the same weapon.

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Same weapon? FF bersekers use fist weapons in most of the games they're in.

Samurai should be a dps tank.

Dps War I meant to say.

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Originally Posted by KuroganeAre

Dps War I meant to say.

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I am all for having SAM in the game, but not off of MRD.
If they did that then SAM would have to use 2h Axes based off of how the Class/Armoury system works and that doesn't really make sense to me.
SAM will most likely need a new class to come off of.

guys. guys. guys. there is nothing restricting what weapon you use based on your class. all they would have to do is add a weapon proficiency to the class (marauder), and then make the job crystals exclusive to certain weapons.

Its really not that hard. so sure, war could become dual wield war, but i doubt it will. more likely dark knight(dps) or samurai

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Originally Posted by Warrlordd

guys. guys. guys. there is nothing restricting what weapon you use based on your class. all they would have to do is add a weapon proficiency to the class (marauder), and then make the job crystals exclusive to certain weapons.

Its really not that hard. so sure, war could become dual wield war, but i doubt it will. more likely dark knight(dps) or samurai

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That is how the class/armoury system works in this game, equip X main weapon and become X class, for example equip a bow and you become an Archer or Bard if you equip the soul crystal.
Because of this what weapon you use is restricted by what class you are.

They could expand what weapons are available to each class, but I somewhat doubt that they will be doing that as it seems like quite a departure from what the intended design for the system is.

They could however make a special branch of weapons that are specific to a single Job class, such as if they went the scythes for Dark Knight route like in FFXI, but if they did go this route the new weapon would have to most likely be similar to the ones that the class the job came from uses. Either that or they would just lump the new type of weapon into the preexisting weapon class and just have it be a visual difference.

Didn't dual weild come from Ninja sub and not war itself in ffxi?

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Originally Posted by Spyrit

Didn't dual weild come from Ninja sub and not war itself in ffxi?

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Its been ages since I played FFXI and I played tank more than damage dealer, but I am pretty sure that is correct and that was what made Ninja such a popular sub for melee characters, that and I think it provided a good boost to evasion/dodging.

I know that in FF Tactics, you had to level Ninja on a character to a certain point to unlock Dual Wielding.
Different game of course, the question just made me remember that.

dps war? no, dps maurader job? most likely yes.

Why does everyone think gla will get dark rdm is more likely or thf even considering they use daggers and swords and the 2nd job will most likely use dagger

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Originally Posted by SanjuroXI

Why does everyone think gla will get dark rdm is more likely or thf even considering they use daggers and swords and the 2nd job will most likely use dagger

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1) Yoshida is removing daggers from Gladiator's arsenal
2) Red Mage uses magic
3) Dark Knight uses a variety of weapons and, more often than not, 1 handed swords

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

Its been ages since I played FFXI and I played tank more than damage dealer, but I am pretty sure that is correct and that was what made Ninja such a popular sub for melee characters, that and I think it provided a good boost to evasion/dodging.

I know that in FF Tactics, you had to level Ninja on a character to a certain point to unlock Dual Wielding.
Different game of course, the question just made me remember that.

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That is correct. You would have to sub the ninja class in order to get the dual wield passive. Most people sub'ed ninja for the utsusemi ichi/ni ability.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

1) Yoshida is removing daggers from Gladiator's arsenal

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Where was this said? I'm not questioning your integrity, but I'd like to see a source out of my own curiosity.

I doubt it. There's so few tank jobs and such a huge glut of dps jobs I don't think they'd turn one of the two tanks into a dps job.

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Originally Posted by Mezlabor

I doubt it. There's so few tank jobs and such a huge glut of dps jobs I don't think they'd turn one of the two tanks into a dps job.

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its not really a huge glut really, 2 Tanks (PLD(GLA), WAR(MRD)), 2 Healers (WHM(CNJ), SCH(ACN)), and 5 DPS (DRG(LNR), MNK(PGL), BRD(ARC), BLM(THM), SMN(ACN)) but in a 8 man pty, at least till yoshi implements hybrids, its 2-2-4 so that's 1 spare dps.
so I would not believe that if they implement more jobs they would not release new dps, i wouldnt be surprised if they take the route of 1 tank, 1dps, 1 healer or 1t, 2dps, 1h. the reason the player population has a shortage of healers and tanks vs dps on various servers is because of the job requirements/variety and in a mmo with defined class roles this is a constant issue. the most basic problem is for the average person playing dps is simply more fun then tanking or healing, especially since 9/10 if a run wipes the blame gets tossed to the tank/healer.

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Originally Posted by Gumbercules

I wanna say MRD's DPS class is going to be viking! =D it would fit the lore of la noscea too. I could see a dual wield one hand axe class coming out later though, but I suspect first DW class will be thf with ninja as its first job.

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I agree with this comment.... but with all the JOB's there seems to be a point where the CLASS story ends at 30, and the JOB story line is opened up with another character that does not necessarily belong to the same city state affinity....

ex
LNC- Gridania..... DRG- Coerthas

So hypothetically, a second JOB for Marauder could come by finding a "legendary" warrior in Mor Dhona.... like a Captain America storyline of a person trapped in crystal from a time long past... and be completely unrelated to the Limsa Lominsa theme

This game needs more tanks, end of story. However, it would be much better if they attach new tank jobs to classes other than MRD and GLD. MRD getting a DPS job is probably inevitable, all the basic setup is already there, just give them an offensive stance in the same way Defiance is a defensive stance. GLD, though, is gonna be a lot more tricky since their basic abilities are so defense oriented. Guess we'll have to see what new abilities they gonna add when they raise the level cap.

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Originally Posted by shanvhere

I would love to see a dual wield war, I had the best time in ff11 as a duel war. Will there be one in FF14?

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Short answer: No
Long answer: Not happening because the armory system has 2-handed axes as their primary weapon and would require the job be completely retooled as a DPS with a single-handed weapon. You might see something similar to it on another job, but you will not see a FFXI-type dual-wield Warrior on this game.

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Originally Posted by PenutButter

This game needs more tanks, end of story. However, it would be much better if they attach new tank jobs to classes other than MRD and GLD. MRD getting a DPS job is probably inevitable, all the basic setup is already there, just give them an offensive stance in the same way Defiance is a defensive stance. GLD, though, is gonna be a lot more tricky since their basic abilities are so defense oriented. Guess we'll have to see what new abilities they gonna add when they raise the level cap.

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I doubt they'll spin a DPS off of Marauder, but I can see Marauder being a subclass for another DPS. All of the Warrior abilities would need to be retooled to not have the enmity bonuses for a DPS or else they'll overtake any tank they have in a party.

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Originally Posted by Nova_Dresden

Short answer: No
Long answer: Not happening because the armory system has 2-handed axes as their primary weapon and would require the job be completely retooled as a DPS with a single-handed weapon. You might see something similar to it on another job, but you will not see a FFXI-type dual-wield Warrior on this game.

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They don't necessarily have to have only 2 handed axe for MRD because of the armoury system, they could easily add one handed axes to MRD just as they could easily add 2 handed swords to gladiator or 1 handed javelins to lancer. Look at THM and CNJ, they have both 1 handed clubs and wands and 2 handed staves and poles. Is it so much of a stretch for them to add 1 handed weapons to other classes?

This also leaves room for expansion of these classes, for example DRK from GLA using primarily 2 handed swords, or Viking from MRD using one handed axes. It also opens up the opportunity for all classes to be available for dual wield if/when it is added.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

They don't necessarily have to have only 2 handed axe for MRD because of the armoury system, they could easily add one handed axes to MRD just as they could easily add 2 handed swords to gladiator or 1 handed javelins to lancer. Look at THM and CNJ, they have both 1 handed clubs and wands and 2 handed staves and poles. Is it so much of a stretch for them to add 1 handed weapons to other classes?

This also leaves room for expansion of these classes, for example DRK from GLA using primarily 2 handed swords, or Viking from MRD using one handed axes. It also opens up the opportunity for all classes to be available for dual wield if/when it is added.

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The system doesn't exactly work that way. Everyone assumes that it really just takes a quick programming change to give a different weapon to a class, but it actually works the other way around in that the class belongs to the weapon. Adding on top of that all the job abilities for each of those classes are tanking abilities with built-in enmity increases or defensive cooldowns and the class doesn't yield itself to spinning off another job unless it's a tank. If they do introduce Dark Knight it should spin off of a new class able to use a Scythe and maybe a great sword, but either way it should not spin off of a preexisting class. I currently have Warrior and Paladin at 50 (technically Marauder and Gladiator at 50 with soulstones, but whatever.) If for some reason they decide to introduce Dark Knight as a spin off of Marauder and Thief as a spin off of Gladiator then, VOILA, I have a level 50 Dark Knight and Thief after maybe an hour of job quests as soon as the new expansion launches and then have to play the game of figuring out HOW I'm supposed to play my level 50 jobs as if I'm level 1 again.

They should stick with introducing a new class with some oddball name that evolves into a previously well-known job from a previous FF game. Something like "Barbarian" should be introduced that uses scythes and great swords and evolve into Dark Knight and something like "Assassin" should be introduced that evolves to Thief and Ninja (BOTH of which should be a DPS class.) The leveling process of 1-50 needs to be intact for any new job, and any class should evolve to the same roles because I've dealt with WAY too many level 50 SMNs sick of waiting for DPS queues and switch to their Wanderer's Palace healing gear and queue as SCH and not know what to do because they never healed a fight in the entire time they played this game.

And dual-wield would be a job trait, not an ability. It would exist on the class it exists on and would not be exchangeable to other classes.

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Originally Posted by Nova_Dresden

They should stick with introducing a new class with some oddball name that evolves into a previously well-known job from a previous FF game. Something like "Barbarian" should be introduced that uses scythes and great swords and evolve into Dark Knight and something like "Assassin" should be introduced that evolves to Thief and Ninja (BOTH of which should be a DPS class.) The leveling process of 1-50 needs to be intact for any new job, and any class should evolve to the same roles because I've dealt with WAY too many level 50 SMNs sick of waiting for DPS queues and switch to their Wanderer's Palace healing gear and queue as SCH and not know what to do because they never healed a fight in the entire time they played this game.

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１） Scythe is a terrible weapon of choice I hope it never sees the light of day outside of cartoony games and Devil May Cry
２) Read my sig. If not, for Thief and Ninja to ever be under the same class (Rogue)** it'll have to be after a few expansions because 5 skills, maybe even 10, isn't enough to differentiate jobs that stem from the same class
３) The idea isn't wrong, just your views seem to be limited (or emotionally driven)

**Assassin wouldn't make sense as a base class. It's a specific mission of a Ninja, who normally steals information or kills, and almost always more powerful than Thief, as they are just a normal street rat who pilfers.

I could see the MRD class getting a dps in the form of greatswords. A job that forgoes axes for a more "civilized" form of warfare.
Class will be called BadAss.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

１） Scythe is a terrible weapon of choice I hope it never sees the light of day outside of cartoony games and Devil May Cry
２) Read my sig. If not, for Thief and Ninja to ever be under the same class (Rogue)** it'll have to be after a few expansions because 5 skills, maybe even 10, isn't enough to differentiate jobs that stem from the same class
３) The idea isn't wrong, just your views seem to be limited (or emotionally driven)

**Assassin wouldn't make sense as a base class. It's a specific mission of a Ninja, who normally steals information or kills, and almost always more powerful than Thief, as they are just a normal street rat who pilfers.

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1) Scythe was the defining weapon of Dark Knight in FFXI, so it only makes sense that it exist as such in this game along with great sword since the other defining weapon, a sword, belongs to Gladiator.
2) Assassin is just something I pulled out of the air (at work, tired, 12-hour shift, doing 4 things at once, did I mention tired) so yeah, Rogue works better as a class name. I still think the two should spin off the same base class due to some small similarities (usually dual-wielding in most games, use of knives and other small bladed weapons, light armor, will both most likely be DEX based melee DPS, etc) and that 5 abilities can easily separate the Jobs as long as the key defining abilities are provided after 30. Sneak Attack, Trick Attack, Steal, and Mug for Thief. Ninja would need some more definition since the key ability Ninja always had was Throw. Maybe toss in Garrote or other Assassination type abilities. I'm just pretty adamant in my mind that Ninja should NOT be a tank like everyone wants.
3) The only thing I'm emotionally attached to is that all currently existing classes should NOT spin off any new jobs, and any new class introduced should only spin off jobs of the same role. I don't logically see any use in allowing someone to level to 50 as a DPS and switch to healer or tank on the same class without any knowledge of what to do in those roles with the job in question nor do I think the playerbase wants to perpetually keep switching their stats around day-by-day for each role.

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Originally Posted by Jamez82

I could see the MRD class getting a dps in the form of greatswords. A job that forgoes axes for a more "civilized" form of warfare.
Class will be called BadAss.

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Where in God's name is a "dislike" button?

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3) The only thing I'm emotionally attached to is that all currently existing classes should NOT spin off any new jobs, and any new class introduced should only spin off jobs of the same role.

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I don't see how the first is any good at all. It just stymies your ability to create new things (by forcing you to design an entirely new class every time you want something else) and the second point just seems silly. Given that your job is 80% the base class, having same role jobs is outright counterintuitive. The bit about a plague of people ruining your runs with roles they don't know how to play is pure sophistry.

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Originally Posted by Sylari

I don't see how the first is any good at all. It just stymies your ability to create new things (by forcing you to design an entirely new class every time you want something else) and the second point just seems silly. Given that your job is 80% the base class, having same role jobs is outright counterintuitive. The bit about a plague of people ruining your runs with roles they don't know how to play is pure sophistry.

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If anything it's anecdotal, not sophistry. What's counterintuitive is introducing any new job that starts at level cap. It completely defeats what an MMO is about if your only goal on your new job is to get geared up for a raid the same day you unlocked it. It shouldn't stymy anything since spinning a new job off of an existing class is simply giving that class 5 abilities and a different subclass to pull abilities from. If you want something new and different you actually have to create something new and different. At the very core of SMN and SCH is ACN that simply stacks DoTs, uses Aetherflow and its abilities, and has a pet. After 30 either the pet heals or does damage, you get either healing abilities or damaging abilities, and two different groups of subclasses to pull from. It's still the same ACN job in two different roles with different spells and two different primary stats shared between the two jobs. I don't think spinning a DPS and a tank off the same class would entirely work since the necessary cooldowns would be different and the base abilities would need enmity modifiers for tanks that would cause the DPS role of the same class to quickly surpass an actual tank since they won't be subject to the damage penalties of the tank role. Not to say it would never happen, I just don't think this is a good idea in the long run. But I seriously still personally think a new job should not come from an existing class as the main class.

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Originally Posted by Nova_Dresden

If anything it's anecdotal, not sophistry.

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You're right. I just like using the word. Though it's nothing I've personally seen.

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What's counterintuitive is introducing any new job that starts at level cap. It completely defeats what an MMO is about if your only goal on your new job is to get geared up for a raid the same day you unlocked it.

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It may skew what an MMO is about to you, but that's certainly a subjective call. There's plenty of people (admittedly myself included) that'd view that process as grinding away on chump mobs with only half your toolkit and more of a tax you have to pay to reach the 'actual' gameplay than a meaningful experience. Not necessarily the first time around, maybe even not the second. But the third, fourth, fifth and sixth? I could do without it.

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It shouldn't stymy anything since spinning a new job off of an existing class is simply giving that class 5 abilities and a different subclass to pull abilities from. If you want something new and different you actually have to create something new and different.

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You're right, it's worded incorrectly. It doesn't necessarily stymie your ability to create new things, but it does significantly increase the burden of effort redirecting everything into entirely new classes rather than simply reflavoring and nuancing existing ones with new jobs.

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At the very core of SMN and SCH is ACN that simply stacks DoTs, uses Aetherflow and its abilities, and has a pet. After 30 either the pet heals or does damage, you get either healing abilities or damaging abilities, and two different groups of subclasses to pull from. It's still the same ACN job in two different roles with different spells and two different primary stats shared between the two jobs.

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But as we can see the classes operate in tremendously different fashions because of those variations in abilities and role. In a way I don't think you could accomplish necessarily if scholar was simply another DPS.

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I don't think spinning a DPS and a tank off the same class would entirely work since the necessary cooldowns would be different and the base abilities would need enmity modifiers for tanks that would cause the DPS role of the same class to quickly surpass an actual tank since they won't be subject to the damage penalties of the tank role.

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Cooldowns could be an issue (at least in the case of gladiator. Marauder lends itself quite well to a potential dps). Dealing with enmity and defensive issues could be as simple as throwing in a level 30 stance or applying some sort of modifier with the job crystal though.

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Not to say it would never happen, I just don't think this is a good idea in the long run. But I seriously still personally think a new job should not come from an existing class as the main class.

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Personally I think it's the best way to implement new jobs without buiding an entirely new chassis from the ground up. Especially at this stage of the game there just isn't enough new material in the job itself to make me think you can significantly differentiate two jobs of the same role built on the same class. Maybe at level 60 it'd be easier to do that though. Plus there's some great thematic links that could be drawn between certain classes and potential jobs that I don't think should be wasted.

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

If by duel war, you mean a dual-wielding WAR, then I would say most likely no as that would require a different weapon setup than WAR or MRD which would not work with the way the class/armoury setup works in this game.

However a DPS class coming off of MRD, such as Dark Knight or Berzerker or something like that is both possible and fairly likely. I personally hope for Dark Knight.

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Not quite true. It'd be a bit different than what any job uses right now but not far off how GLD uses both swords and daggers, and WHM/BLM uses 1-h weapons + shield or 2-h weapons.

So WAR would just get 1-h weapons which would allow them to use 1-h offhands. No change in the system required.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

and WHM/BLM uses 1-h weapons + shield or 2-h weapons.

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That's because both of them are casters, not melee, and they have no auto-attack. All their damage is in the spells and their magic damage (or healing) is based on spell potency, magic damage from the weapon, INT or MND and determination. Switching between a single-handed or two-handed weapon only affects the spell and they're designed to do the same task and provide the same damages. Melee works different since they have an auto-attack and single-handed weapons have lower damages and attack faster while two-handed weapons attack slower with higher damages. While Gladiator gets daggers and swords, both of those are one-handed weapons and Warrior uses two-handed weapons. Just like WoW and Single-minded Fury vs. Titan's grip it would require a lot of different calculations in order to get the same effects from 2 different weapon types and I just don't see that happening for melee in this game. Warrior will probably always be a 2-handed job and Gladiator will probably always be a one-handed job.

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Originally Posted by Nova_Dresden

That's because both of them are casters, not melee, and they have no auto-attack. All their damage is in the spells and their magic damage (or healing) is based on spell potency, magic damage from the weapon, INT or MND and determination. Switching between a single-handed or two-handed weapon only affects the spell and they're designed to do the same task and provide the same damages. Melee works different since they have an auto-attack and single-handed weapons have lower damages and attack faster while two-handed weapons attack slower with higher damages. While Gladiator gets daggers and swords, both of those are one-handed weapons and Warrior uses two-handed weapons. Just like WoW and Single-minded Fury vs. Titan's grip it would require a lot of different calculations in order to get the same effects from 2 different weapon types and I just don't see that happening for melee in this game. Warrior will probably always be a 2-handed job and Gladiator will probably always be a one-handed job.

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The more significant thing I think here is visuals. A dual wield warrior would need an entirely new suite of animations and effects to work.