Updates: FFXI and FFXIV, a comparison

FFXI updates are steamrolling in, yet those for FFXIV are just trickling.
How come? Is it because in 11, you just have to adjust and tweak a already well-established system?

Because they don't have to have almost literally 60% of the game remade.

XI: Doesn't need the game redesigned
XIV: Does.

XI: Established for 9 years and can expand.
XIV: Can't expand without being fixed and redesigned.

XI can afford to have content, XIV can't, especially given how uppity the community is with complaining about every little detail.

Because Crystal Tools blows and because Tanaka made sure that there was not a single aspect of the game that didn't need to be completely redesigned.

I didnt know the battle system was 60% of the game.

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Originally Posted by viion

I didnt know the battle system was 60% of the game.

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I didn't know the battle system isn't the most important part of a game about battling stuff.

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Originally Posted by viion

I didnt know the battle system was 60% of the game.

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There's battle system, class system, craft system, gather system, economy, market/trade system, storage system, and game world that still need to be done. Exp point acquisition has been dealt with, and other levelup things are coming with the redone battle system. And there's still a lot of basic systems that were added or still need to be added, like quest system, mail system, transport system, enchant/disenchant system, etc.

Yeah, I would say that way more than 60% of the game needs work.

I think the whole idea was to not necessarily stop working on that content, but to not release it. I'm fairly sure, Ishguard & most of the related content is probably ready to go. But they decided to not release it, as they felt it would be a waste with the current system.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

There's battle system, class system, craft system, gather system, economy, market/trade system, storage system, and game world that still need to be done. Exp point acquisition has been dealt with, and other levelup things are coming with the redone battle system. And there's still a lot of basic systems that were added or still need to be added, like quest system, mail system, transport system, enchant/disenchant system, etc.

Yeah, I would say that way more than 60% of the game needs work.

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They're not doing anything with market/trade, economy, all thats been changed with gathering is the new items added. Nothing is changing with craft system, the only thing changing with class is skills are getting change so thats skills not the classes. nothings changing with storage or the game world. or transport, or quest, or mail.

All that we know is: Stamina removed, Auto Attack added, Physical/Elemental attributes redesigned, Skills for the classes redesigned and 3 dungeons being added. The rest comes after 1.18

So it is slow and battle is not 60%. Why do they not have a guy working on new guildleves or quests? Why do not they have a 3D Modeller making new mobs? in 9 months we've had 1 new mob. I've not heard much news of a lot of gear coming out, im only expecting something like the faction stuff.

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Originally Posted by Roaran

I think the whole idea was to not necessarily stop working on that content, but to not release it. I'm fairly sure, Ishguard & most of the related content is probably ready to go. But they decided to not release it, as they felt it would be a waste with the current system.

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I really hope so. I just wish they'd say so. I guess they don't want to do that until they have a timetable on the relaunch.

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Originally Posted by viion

They're not doing anything with market/trade, economy, all thats been changed with gathering is the new items added. Nothing is changing with craft system, the only thing changing with class is skills are getting change so thats skills not the classes. nothings changing with storage or the game world. or transport, or quest, or mail.

All that we know is: Stamina removed, Auto Attack added, Physical/Elemental attributes redesigned, Skills for the classes redesigned and 3 dungeons being added. The rest comes after 1.18

So it is slow and battle is not 60%. Why do they not have a guy working on new guildleves or quests? Why do not they have a 3D Modeller making new mobs? in 9 months we've had 1 new mob. I've not heard much news of a lot of gear coming out, im only expecting something like the faction stuff.

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QQ moar!!!!

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Originally Posted by Rinsui

FFXI updates are steamrolling in, yet those for FFXIV are just trickling.
How come? Is it because in 11, you just have to adjust and tweak a already well-established system?

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Here's why:

FFXI: We're adjusting the maximum range of Thief abilities Collaborator and Accomplice.
FFXIV: We decided to only list items that are not going to be changed because the list will be shorter that way.

I can explain it in more detail if needed. I can't make head or tail out of viion's nonsense so it's hard to make a proper reply for it.

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Originally Posted by Ilean

QQ moar!!!!

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And what a typical immature reply...

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Originally Posted by viion

They're not doing anything with market/trade, economy, all thats been changed with gathering is the new items added. Nothing is changing with craft system, the only thing changing with class is skills are getting change so thats skills not the classes. nothings changing with storage or the game world. or transport, or quest, or mail.

All that we know is: Stamina removed, Auto Attack added, Physical/Elemental attributes redesigned, Skills for the classes redesigned and 3 dungeons being added. The rest comes after 1.18

So it is slow and battle is not 60%. Why do they not have a guy working on new guildleves or quests? Why do not they have a 3D Modeller making new mobs? in 9 months we've had 1 new mob. I've not heard much news of a lot of gear coming out, im only expecting something like the faction stuff.

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Yep. They have a million things that need to be redone, implemented, or expanded that are not battle system, yet nothing is happening there.

They're either lazy, incompetent, short staffed, don't care, or the game is FUBAR. Or any combination of those.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Yep. They have a million things that need to be redone, implemented, or expanded that are not battle system, yet nothing is happening there.

They're either lazy, incompetent, short staffed, don't care, or the game is FUBAR. Or any combination of those.

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Most likely that one. Not to mention some of the staff is shared with XI (or just not working on XIV all together)

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Originally Posted by viion

Why do not they have a 3D Modeller making new mobs? in 9 months we've had 1 new mob.

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I beg to differ on this, as Diremites, Pirates, goblins, puddings, and many other mobs were added in post release...

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Originally Posted by AuctionGirl

I beg to differ on this, as Diremites, Pirates, goblins, puddings, and many other mobs were added in post release...

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All of them excluding Goblins have been in the game since Alpha. Just turning the on switch does not count as a new developed mob when its been fully developed over a year ago.

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Originally Posted by viion

All of them excluding Goblins have been in the game since Alpha. Just turning the on switch does not count as a new developed mob when its been fully developed over a year ago.

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Get out of here with your fancy logics!

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Originally Posted by viion

All of them excluding Goblins have been in the game since Alpha. Just turning the on switch does not count as a new developed mob when its been fully developed over a year ago.

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Maybe your right, but I don't dat mine So I only have my opinion from what I've seen in the game. I do know bluefog was a lot easier run, pre-diremite patch.

This game could use more mob types/designs/variations in different areas... Along with forcing people to goto other areas... like removing certain group areas from each areas and only allowing 1 area to host that groups ranking range. Then decreasing the spawn times between mobs. Grouping is hardly viable when a solo'er can clear out an area faster than mobs can respawn.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Yep. They have a million things that need to be redone, implemented, or expanded that are not battle system, yet nothing is happening there.

They're either lazy, incompetent, short staffed, don't care, or the game is FUBAR. Or any combination of those.

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Explain your reasoning further. If they can fix the game in the timeframe they've set themselves, they are neither of those. Your personal timeline has no weight here at all.

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Originally Posted by viion

All of them excluding Goblins have been in the game since Alpha. Just turning the on switch does not count as a new developed mob when its been fully developed over a year ago.

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Eh whatever, it doesn't matter when it was developed, it's still a new mob to me. Especially since I don't go through .dat files.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Explain your reasoning further. If they can fix the game in the timeframe they've set themselves, they are neither of those. Your personal timeline has no weight here at all.

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Just because they set the time frame doesn't mean it's a good or even acceptable one. They're not making the game for themselves. They're slow as all hell for a AAA developer working on a flagship title.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Just because they set the time frame doesn't mean it's a good or even acceptable one. They're not making the game for themselves. They're slow as all hell for a AAA developer working on a flagship title.

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And who decides whether it's an acceptable one? You? You don't even know what said timeline is, and you can't even make an educated guess because you have basically no idea about their progress.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

And who decides whether it's an acceptable one? You? You don't even know what said timeline is, and you can't even make an educated guess because you have basically no idea about their progress.

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Is your entire argument "durrr u dun kno nothin only devs kno"?

I can judge the speed at which they could or should be moving by comparing FFXIV with current and previous MMO's, including their own MMO, FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog

Eh whatever, it doesn't matter when it was developed, it's still a new mob to me. Especially since I don't go through .dat files.

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To you it is, but to the development team it is not, and that is what they are doing, they have a lot of things already complete but they just leave it there until they can release it later making you think they're working very hard when they havent. Example right now is several mobs and the Dungeons.

But to the person it does not matter so much, this thread is talking mainly about the development side of things.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

I can judge the speed at which they could or should be moving by comparing FFXIV with current and previous MMO's, including their own MMO, FFXI.

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Yet do you know at which speed they are moving at? No, you don't. Which is what I said.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Yet do you know at which speed they are moving at? No, you don't. Which is what I said.

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This is true and makes me wonder why we're even having this conversation. We don't know everything they're working on, we get our information from them.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Yet do you know at which speed they are moving at? No, you don't. Which is what I said.

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Yeah, I do. It's been 9 months and the game is only slightly more different than it was at start.

Here are the major changes since the game's start:

SP/EXP acquisition system fixed
Quest system implemented
A few notorious monsters
A good targeting system
Minor UI tweaks
Minor balancing of monster HP and player skills
Search function for market wards and some organization

Almost every patch since January has had some delay or had to be broken down into two patches because they couldn't release it on time. "Core Programming Issue" rears its head around every other week or so. It took them 3 patches of fiddling to get the targeting system right. Every answer we get from them is a minimal "we're not currently working on X" or "we're taking a look at X".

Whooo boy, yeah, they're sure hard at work and moving fast.

Yeah, that's what I thought. You really are basing their progress on the content implemented to the live servers.

Hint: that's not how it works. Now, can you guess why?

the players base their progess on the content implemented in live servers ,because is where we play?

if they have internal version and all of them are busy playing in the new dungeons and having fun , i could care less....

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

the players base their progess on the content implemented in live servers ,because is where we play?

if they have internal version and all of them are busy playing in the new dungeons and having fun , i could care less....

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So in your small mind, no feature exists or is in development before it is implemented to the live servers? It just pops out of nowhere.

With this in mind, every feature has similar development time and can be implemented to the game anytime. It's just a matter of swinging that magic stick!

Lastly, testing, preparing and implementing every new feature separately (that affects other features) does not slow them down at all, as well as making much sense when the feature in question has no relation to the current game but the game the dev team is working on.

And based on their responses to questions about other content. How convenient of you to ignore half my post, Admiral Fanboy.

Let me ask you this: if they have content that they're working on, with any actual progress, why would they not release it or give more info about it?

Hint, they don't. There have been a total of like 335 MB of updates since January. That's pathetic in every sense of the word.

It doesnt matter what they doing behind the scenes because we're not behind the scenes! We only care about progression of content/updates to US so yes basing it off live servers is fine because thats what we're playing.

The reason for delaying info is most likely for 2 reasons: 1 so it makes us think they're working hard and we can say "they spent x amount of time on that" when they havent. and 2 because they probably keep changing stuff or broke and have to keep fixing stuff.

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Originally Posted by viion

It doesnt matter what they doing behind the scenes because we're not behind the scenes! We only care about progression of content/updates to US so yes basing it off live servers is fine because thats what we're playing.

The reason for delaying info is most likely for 2 reasons: 1 so it makes us think they're working hard and we can say "they spent x amount of time on that" when they havent. and 2 because they probably keep changing stuff or broke and have to keep fixing stuff.

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"But to the person it does not matter so much, this thread is talking mainly about the development side of things. "
Didn't you just say this to me a few minutes ago?

if there is content behind scenes ,and its being tested.....
why dont post about it? screenshots? info? or its everything being changed everyday .....that SE cant post any news because isnt "final"...........

yeah that makes sense......

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Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog

"But to the person it does not matter so much, this thread is talking mainly about the development side of things. "
Didn't you just say this to me a few minutes ago?

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The development to US what we get you're trying to twist what I mean.

They make stuff but it is not coming to us, and we've had nothing else. The development to our view is minimal, that is why I said if you dat mine or fileswap you will see theres been only 1 new mob. There might be loads behind the scenes but we dont know it so right now as far as facts concern what our gamefiles hold, the development team have made 1 mob.

Thats 1 single petty hardly used mob, on the entire live/public server that the development team have concentrated on regarding mobs. The rest pre-existing before Alpha. It can also be said the same for the quest system, its an identical ripoff to the already existing quest system classes had, so imo the development for "Implementation of Quest System" does not exist.

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

if there is content behind scenes ,and its being tested.....
why dont post about it? screenshots? info? or its everything being changed everyday .....that SE cant post any news because isnt "final"...........

yeah that makes sense......

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Because there isn't any. That's why all their answers are "We'll look into it" or "We're planning this for the future".

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Originally Posted by viion

The development to US what we get you're trying to twist what I mean.

They make stuff but it is not coming to us, and we've had nothing else. The development to our view is minimal, that is why I said if you dat mine or fileswap you will see theres been only 1 new mob. There might be loads behind the scenes but we dont know it so right now as far as facts concern what our gamefiles hold, the development team have made 1 mob.

Thats 1 single petty hardly used mob, on the entire live/public server that the development team have concentrated on regarding mobs. The rest pre-existing before Alpha. It can also be said the same for the quest system, its an identical ripoff to the already existing quest system classes had, so imo the development for "Implementation of Quest System" does not exist.

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Ok, I just wanted you to admit that there could be more they're working on behind the scenes. But haven't you thought the reason why we haven't seen anything new in dats is because they know people are going to hack them? Also why put all this information on people hard drives when you're going to release it a year from now? Release it when you're going to implement it.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Let me ask you this: if they have content that they're working on, with any actual progress, why would they not release it or give more info about it?

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"We have changed the way VIT works in accordance to our new battle system which is still being worked on."
"We have changed the effects of all enmity spells to prepare for our new enmity calculations still being worked on. We know that these changes make no sense with the way current enmity calculations work and essentially make the spells useless, but we ask that you bear with us little longer."
"Additionally, we have released the job specific armor for Paladin. The quest related to obtaining this item has been implemented as well, but only in Japanese due to the unfinished translation that will still be worked on. We also regret to inform that you can not equip said armor because the Paladin job has not yet been finished. You also can not defeat the quest NM with the current damage calculations, sorry for that."

"The claiming system has been changed, but the algorithms for receiving SP have not. You will not be able to receive any SP for fighting monsters, and we are sorry for the inconvenience this may cause."
"Auto-Attack and the necessary algorithms have been implemented. The server adjustments related to the change are still on the works, however, so the damage you inflict on enemies will not register on the server. We ask you to bear with us on this matter."
"Materia system has finally been implemented! You can not, however, equip any items with materia until we change the item icons and status details."
"Due to the additional work preparing and implementing all the aforementioned features to the live servers has caused us, we regret to inform you that the development of the Auction House has been delayed indefinitely."

"While working on the Auto-Attack feature we have found out an issue that needs to be resolved. Due to this, our current adjustments to the VIT stat need to be changed as well. Since said feature has already been implemented, and it will take us even longer to prepare and implement a fix, chocobos have been delayed until 2012."

"Jobs work like this:"

"We previously said that the jobs work like this, but during the development of the rehaul of battle system we found out an issue, and to solve that we also have to change how jobs work for them to work together."

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Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog

Ok, I just wanted you to admit that there could be more they're working on behind the scenes. But haven't you thought the reason why we haven't seen anything new in dats is because they know people are going to hack them?

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While true, why not post screenshots? they've posted 1 and it was ages ago. And even put up post of 1 dungeon in the Lodestone which has crappy images (to match the theme).

Goblin was never put in our files until day of release, but there are other mobs existing now in the files, couple even fully complete but they are not being used anywhere in the game, so its confusing.

Still as Warlyx and Wolfie are talking about, being this quiet, returning near nothing in information, the last post on lodestone is the last patch, makes game look very dead and like the dev team are not concerned. It doesnt seem like they're doing much behind the scenes.

Knowing my luck though I always state this then a fking news letter comes out after weekend. I know we wont get anything until Monday onwards because no one works during weekends in SE. Also with e3 I think things will be quiet.