Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I don’t support the changes but I’m exactly the sort of person the changes most benefit

The “I parse blue in savage so think I’m top shit and can maybe crawl through ultimate but I’ll probably be the worst member of your static”

This group is the only group that benefits from the changes. FFlogs didn’t exist back then but I was assuredly a grey parser when HW SCH existed, but I still loved it because I wanted to improve and try my hardest, if they reverted the changes my parse number would collapse, but I don’t remotely care I want to be challenged

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Funnily enough it has reached the point where it's actually the opposite for me. I got actively worse at Warrior during Shadowbringers and Endwalker, because the job is so braindead I simply can't be bothered anymore. What am I going to optimise, my Storm's Path to Storm's Eye ratio so I get one or two extra Fell Cleaves in?

My logs technically got higher but not because I'm playing better, I just don't even have to try.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Funnily enough it has reached the point where it's actually the opposite for me. I got actively worse at Warrior during Shadowbringers and Endwalker, because the job is so braindead I simply can't be bothered anymore. What am I going to optimise, my Storm's Path to Storm's Eye ratio so I get one or two extra Fell Cleaves in?

My logs technically got higher but not because I'm playing better, I just don't even have to try.

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Same, honestly.

After they gutted SCH hard in ShB, I just keep dropping my 30s DoT because I zoned out while mashing Broil, but it's still a purple log because the DoT barely even matters.

The almost total lack of consequences from the choices made makes for very stale gameplay.

30s DoTs really makes me checks out mentally. I had a soft spot for WHM in Eureka back in ShB solely because their Aero II was still a 18s DoT. That too, is now gone and also became the butt of everyone's joke when they homogenize it to 30s and forgot to upgrade the potency lmao. Just one of the instances that shows how disconnected they are.

I might even argue for a shorter dot duration, up to 15s max. Seeing how the average human attention span is on a steady decline, any dot outside of 3 gcd's worth of filler may be completely forgotten.

Dots could use a more visible (or audible) way of telling its duration.

What we currently have at the moment is enough, in my opinion. When all you do is press 1 button to do dps, it is very easy to lose track of the dot timer. 2 solutions can be done: one of it is to lower the duration to make it less prone to getting forgotten or implement a more meaningful and interesting combination of healing and dps rotation that will naturally flow with refreshing the dot.

But let's be practical here, lowering the duration is the easier approach.

Speaking of extending and reducing timers, I find it ironic that they're only willing to do this to regen timers. Wasn't old Regen actions used to have longer timer but have their potency spread across wider period of time vs today's short but stronger ticks? lol

It was a mid ShB change if I remember

Medica 2 had twice the length but half the potency per tick so it took like 7 seconds for medica 2 to exceed medica 1 in potency, that was why medica 1 existed, because you put up medica 2 then spammed medica 1

Now you are basically never punished for just spamming medica 2

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Originally Posted by rawker

What we currently have at the moment is enough, in my opinion. When all you do is press 1 button to do dps, it is very easy to lose track of the dot timer. 2 solutions can be done: one of it is to lower the duration to make it less prone to getting forgotten or implement a more meaningful and interesting combination of healing and dps rotation that will naturally flow with refreshing the dot.

But let's be practical here, lowering the duration is the easier approach.

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It's easier to do also when the DoT is only double the potency of a single filler spell.

Now if it was 3x, 4x, or 5x that dot would be MUCH more impactful if you missed it.

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Originally Posted by Naple

Dots could use a more visible (or audible) way of telling its duration.

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That's an entirely separate discussion. The UI could use so many upgrades, especially buff/debuff visibility customization since the devs have been increasingly fond of spamming each player with like 4 different debuffs that need to be resolved perfectly.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

It's easier to do also when the DoT is only double the potency of a single filler spell.

Now if it was 3x, 4x, or 5x that dot would be MUCH more impactful if you missed it.

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True, but in order to miss a DOT, you need to not apply it for its entire durations worth of time. If you miss the timing by 1 GCD, you only lose one tic, rather than the entire potency’s worth unlike your basic attack spell which you lose 100% of every time you don’t cast anything to move or cast a GCD heal instead.

On the matter of boring jobs and getting asleep, maybe I've just had a consistently bad and biased horrible experience with SNM mains in statics, but 90% of them have always been the source of most of the raid stupid wipes or wipes on random early mechanics because they either:

1) fell asleep on the job constantly
2) were actually of a very different skill level to the group and only got there because carried by their job

Shout-out to the only SMN player I've had in EW that was an actually great player, you managed to make me put a disclaimer there to avoid making a fully blanket statement. Either way, this is the perfect illustration in my mind of the slippery slope of braindead jobs in current XIV's era.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

I completely agree, and what makes it even more frustrating is that there are so many easy solutions to absolving the heavy pressure on the healer to always survive. Something I’ve been saying for years has been to make Phoenix Downs usable in combat, stackable so you can hold more than one at a time, and handed to the player as rewards for doing roulettes and quests. Give them a cast time, and a cool down independent of other items like potions, and then if we feel they are too strong for raiding, make Phoenix Downs unusable in high-end duties. Basically, it’s a function that works the same as silence echo. Once a duty is removed from the high-end category, then Phoenix Downs can be used.

Now, anyone can revive. The cast time makes it suboptimal if your healer is alive, but if they fall, you can revive them. Red Mage still benefits from repeated instant raising, and if we want summoner to retain some form of raise utility, remove Resurrection and give Carbuncle a raise on a long cooldown, or make Enkindle during Phoenix’s summon time able to target and revive fallen party members with the regen. Powerful, yet heavily restricted by timing. Or just leave it as-is and let it benefit from a potential swiftcast as the main advantage over Phoenix Downs. I can understand that the value of a raise can be a sensitive balance topic, and im not partial to any specific solution. I’m unbothered by them getting a powerful, yet restrictive raise, or not.

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I personally tend to take the diametrically opposed view because I'm RPG old school. I don't want phoenix downs to make raising even more of an afterthought, even in casual content, and I want mistakes to come with their lot of punishment. If a sprout healer fails, and the party wipes, then, we go at it again. I don't have a problem with that, I like helping new people go through things, and I'd rather have them feel proud of finally overcoming a hurdle instead of feeling cheated because the difficulty has been lowered or someone used a bypass for their mistake. And make the TOS and actual GMs double down on toxic dregs that would harass people for failing.

If healing has too much weight on who on the party has all the onus of preventing wipes, then perhaps the other roles have been way too neutered too in that department. Yes, this includes DPS and party resources. We used to have more wipes back then not due to supports, but actually DPS, because their damage output was so bad that everybody ran out of resources. I want that back, but i'm part of a minority of lunatics, or so I'm told.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

It was a mid ShB change if I remember

Medica 2 had twice the length but half the potency per tick so it took like 7 seconds for medica 2 to exceed medica 1 in potency, that was why medica 1 existed, because you put up medica 2 then spammed medica 1

Now you are basically never punished for just spamming medica 2

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Now you just spamm OGCD or damage neutral (lily) heals tbh.

But yes, and back then medica 1 also had the benefit of costing a lot less MP, when resource management was still a thing.

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Originally Posted by Valence

I personally tend to take the diametrically opposed view because I'm RPG old school. I don't want phoenix downs to make raising even more of an afterthought, even in casual content, and I want mistakes to come with their lot of punishment. If a sprout healer fails, and the party wipes, then, we go at it again. I don't have a problem with that, I like helping new people go through things, and I'd rather have them feel proud of finally overcoming a hurdle instead of feeling cheated because the difficulty has been lowered or someone used a bypass for their mistake. And make the TOS and actual GMs double down on toxic dregs that would harass people for failing.

If healing has too much weight on who on the party has all the onus of preventing wipes, then perhaps the other roles have been way too neutered too in that department. Yes, this includes DPS and party resources. We used to have more wipes back then not due to supports, but actually DPS, because their damage output was so bad that everybody ran out of resources. I want that back, but i'm part of a minority of lunatics, or so I'm told.

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Wouldn’t it make more sense then to just removing revives altogether? If anyone fails, the party wipes. If only the healer can provide the party with endless resets, then there’s a lot of social pressure on them to be executing everything correctly. The DPS and even the tank can make as many mistakes as they want, but the healer can’t afford to do so. I think it’s important to empower each role with responsibility that only they can perform, but I don’t think it’s fair to say that one of those responsibilities is to never make a mistake when everyone else is allowed to. Either let the healers be allowed to make mistakes, or don’t allow anyone to make mistakes.

And I don’t think having to revive a player absolves their mistakes of consequence anyway. There are more consequences than just failure.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

It was a mid ShB change if I remember

Medica 2 had twice the length but half the potency per tick so it took like 7 seconds for medica 2 to exceed medica 1 in potency, that was why medica 1 existed, because you put up medica 2 then spammed medica 1

Now you are basically never punished for just spamming medica 2

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Actually it was like how it was in SHB in ARR 2.0 but was changed to the 30 second duration because if I remember what Sebazy said, it was that the first iteration lead to the whm getting a huge amount of aggro back then. Once they made the tank stances without the damage penalty happen and increasing the amount of aggro it could generate, they reverted it back to the 15 seconds on Shadowbringer release.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Wouldn’t it make more sense then to just removing revives altogether? If anyone fails, the party wipes. If only the healer can provide the party with endless resets, then there’s a lot of social pressure on them to be executing everything correctly. The DPS and even the tank can make as many mistakes as they want, but the healer can’t afford to do so. I think it’s important to empower each role with responsibility that only they can perform, but I don’t think it’s fair to say that one of those responsibilities is to never make a mistake when everyone else is allowed to. Either let the healers be allowed to make mistakes, or don’t allow anyone to make mistakes.

And I don’t think having to revive a player absolves their mistakes of consequence anyway. There are more consequences than just failure.

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Having progged savage+ with no caster raise, the pressure on the shield healer is quite immense. While the regen healer can die (just not often), the shield healer is required to play perfectly because any mistake from them is an instant wipe due to weakness shields.

That said, while I think it's fine for other roles to have a limited raise, I think tanks in particular should have more limits. Like tying the phoenix down CD with tank invuln CDs, so tanks can't just invuln to cheese a mechanic and then raise a healer.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

Having progged savage+ with no caster raise, the pressure on the shield healer is quite immense. While the regen healer can die (just not often), the shield healer is required to play perfectly because any mistake from them is an instant wipe due to weakness shields.

That said, while I think it's fine for other roles to have a limited raise, I think tanks in particular should have more limits. Like tying the phoenix down CD with tank invuln CDs, so tanks can't just invuln to cheese a mechanic and then raise a healer.

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You could also place more limits on the action of using a Pheonix Down in general. For example, you need to be standing next to your fallen party member. They have a range of 3 yalms rather than 30 yalms, basically.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Wouldn’t it make more sense then to just removing revives altogether? If anyone fails, the party wipes. If only the healer can provide the party with endless resets, then there’s a lot of social pressure on them to be executing everything correctly. The DPS and even the tank can make as many mistakes as they want, but the healer can’t afford to do so. I think it’s important to empower each role with responsibility that only they can perform, but I don’t think it’s fair to say that one of those responsibilities is to never make a mistake when everyone else is allowed to. Either let the healers be allowed to make mistakes, or don’t allow anyone to make mistakes.

And I don’t think having to revive a player absolves their mistakes of consequence anyway. There are more consequences than just failure.

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That's fair, but having played through criterion with everybody having a one use raise, I can safely say that I hated that garbage. No idea what solution I could find satisfying though.

Perhaps raise being a universal action with an insane resource cost... owait, not every class uses MP or TP those days. duh.

Edit: yeah maybe those solutions with a 3y range, long cast, potentially shared cooldowns with tank invulns, etc.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Wouldn’t it make more sense then to just removing revives altogether? If anyone fails, the party wipes. If only the healer can provide the party with endless resets, then there’s a lot of social pressure on them to be executing everything correctly. The DPS and even the tank can make as many mistakes as they want, but the healer can’t afford to do so. I think it’s important to empower each role with responsibility that only they can perform, but I don’t think it’s fair to say that one of those responsibilities is to never make a mistake when everyone else is allowed to. Either let the healers be allowed to make mistakes, or don’t allow anyone to make mistakes.

And I don’t think having to revive a player absolves their mistakes of consequence anyway. There are more consequences than just failure.

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One of the first things that surprised me in this game is that healers don't have a self-raise. I agree very much with what Valence said and with what you said. I want each role to have responsibilities, I don't mind if raises stay the way we are now, and if that means that parties wipe- so be it, failure can happen. Same if DPS is low.

However, in at least one game that I played, I could place a self-raise on myself before entering a dungeon so that if I floor-tanked, I could self-raise. It had a longish CD, so it couldn't be spammed, but if necessary it could typically used twice in a dungeon if it was used before entering. It alleviated some of the pressure.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

One of the first things that surprised me in this game is that healers don't have a self-raise. I agree very much with what Valence said and with what you said. I want each role to have responsibilities, I don't mind if raises stay the way we are now, and if that means that parties wipe- so be it, failure can happen. Same if DPS is low.

However, in at least one game that I played, I could place a self-raise on myself before entering a dungeon so that if I floor-tanked, I could self-raise. It had a longish CD, so it couldn't be spammed, but if necessary it could typically used twice in a dungeon if it was used before entering. It alleviated some of the pressure.

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For me, it's more like... I feel that healers having this added pressure is a poison that results in healers having a "complexity tax" in the same way that other jobs have things like mobility tax, utility tax, and so on. Physical ranged DPS have low DPS because they can attack from anywhere without cast times. Healers have low complexity because there is an inherent pressure on them to always do mechanics correctly or risk getting KOed and starving the rest of the team of their sustain, which traditionally results in certain doom of the party if they cannot finish the fight before they take more damage than they can otherwise withstand. So from the designer's perspective, making the healers easier to perform makes them less likely to make mistakes or more likely to pay attention to a fight's mechanics.

And taxes like that aren't a bad thing in general, but the FFXIV designers don't seem to understand the concept of restraint when it comes to taxes. Every tax is so unnecessarily steep, far beyond what any job deserves in contrast to what it's being taxed on. Like I think Red Mage's raise is a really great piece of utility that can potentially save a part a lot of time saving a run from failure, and that is worth a tax on DPS, but not to a scale of nearly 2000 DPS.

So I for one would gladly take whatever consequences come with unleashing the utility of Phoenix Downs if that means healers can have their complexity tax significantly lifted.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

For me, it's more like... I feel that healers having this added pressure is a poison that results in healers having a "complexity tax" in the same way that other jobs have things like mobility tax, utility tax, and so on. Physical ranged DPS have low DPS because they can attack from anywhere without cast times. Healers have low complexity because there is an inherent pressure on them to always do mechanics correctly or risk getting KOed and starving the rest of the team of their sustain, which traditionally results in certain doom of the party if they cannot finish the fight before they take more damage than they can otherwise withstand. So from the designer's perspective, making the healers easier to perform makes them less likely to make mistakes or more likely to pay attention to a fight's mechanics.

And taxes like that aren't a bad thing in general, but the FFXIV designers don't seem to understand the concept of restraint when it comes to taxes. Every tax is so unnecessarily steep, far beyond what any job deserves in contrast to what it's being taxed on. Like I think Red Mage's raise is a really great piece of utility that can potentially save a part a lot of time saving a run from failure, and that is worth a tax on DPS, but not to a scale of nearly 2000 DPS.

So I for one would gladly take whatever consequences come with unleashing the utility of Phoenix Downs if that means healers can have their complexity tax significantly lifted.

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That's wishful thinking. We have the trust system as a way to make it so people can continue the story without being bogged down by terrible teammates. I don't see the dev team making more complicated non-MSQ dungeons (if Variant/Criterion is that stamp a big fat failure on them and discontinue the waste of spaces), harder EXs, alliance raids or even savage raids where tanks and healers get to shine over glorified fight dances that wipe the party and we can't recover from except from beginning from the start, and I sure as hells don't see giving everyone a raise no matter how limited is going to fix it.

In fact, I see more raises FURTHER making the healing role more obsolete. So no. I don't want it.

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

We have the trust system as a way to make it so people can continue the story without being bogged down by terrible teammates.

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I've watched Alphinaud let Thancred die to Superbolide. Let's not pretend trusts are somehow immune from being terrible at their jobs. :p

As far as the greater point of making Phoenix Downs usable in content goes: I would point out that most reasonable players feel bad about leaving party members dead on the floor, and being the party member (or two or three…) that's on the floor feels bad. Especially if we're looking at MSQ-required content.

Holding healer class design and the MSQ encounter design hostage to the possibility that the healer might die in MSQ-required 4-person content strikes me as… not ideal.

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

I've watched Alphinaud let Thancred die to Superbolide. Let's not pretend trusts are somehow immune from being terrible at their jobs. :p

As far as the greater point of making Phoenix Downs usable in content goes: I would point out that most reasonable players feel bad about leaving party members dead on the floor, and being the party member (or two or three…) that's on the floor feels bad. Especially if we're looking at MSQ-required content.

Holding healer class design and the MSQ encounter design hostage to the possibility that the healer might die in MSQ-required 4-person content strikes me as… not ideal.

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I never claimed otherwise.

What I claim is that I don't see the dev team changing anything other than allowing Phoenix Downs to be used in combat due to a request while completely forgetting WHY we asked for the change to begin with: so they can't stop using excuses to not fix healers or combat design.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

That's an entirely separate discussion. The UI could use so many upgrades, especially buff/debuff visibility customization since the devs have been increasingly fond of spamming each player with like 4 different debuffs that need to be resolved perfectly.

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In my dream UI I'd be able to see my dots, and any and EVERY single debuff on the boss.

Instead of the current model:

Everything, everyone puts on (so much clutter)

Or just mine.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Wouldn’t it make more sense then to just removing revives altogether? If anyone fails, the party wipes. If only the healer can provide the party with endless resets, then there’s a lot of social pressure on them to be executing everything correctly. The DPS and even the tank can make as many mistakes as they want, but the healer can’t afford to do so. I think it’s important to empower each role with responsibility that only they can perform, but I don’t think it’s fair to say that one of those responsibilities is to never make a mistake when everyone else is allowed to. Either let the healers be allowed to make mistakes, or don’t allow anyone to make mistakes.

And I don’t think having to revive a player absolves their mistakes of consequence anyway. There are more consequences than just failure.

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Could always go the Bozja Route: 2 deaths and you're unraisable. Might make it 3 for reasons. But you're basically useless with the 50% Brink of Death debuff anyway.

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Originally Posted by rawker

I might even argue for a shorter dot duration, up to 15s max. Seeing how the average human attention span is on a steady decline, any dot outside of 3 gcd's worth of filler may be completely forgotten.

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WHM: Aero>Dia series at 12s
SCH: Bio series at 30s, Miasma series at 24s (with a cast time), Shadowflare ground AOE at 15s
AST: None, by deleting Combust to make room for a properly fleshed out card system
SGE: E.Dosis at 30s, same as it is now

..is how I'd do it. At least, in very simplified terms, there's more changes that I'd do alongside those to adjust level-up skill acquisition pacing, potency upgrade timings, traits to allow certain 'useless' skills to be consolidated and make better use of hotbar space, etc.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

In my dream UI I'd be able to see my dots, and any and EVERY single debuff on the boss.

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I've heard there's a non-TOS compliant method to having your DOTs, and ONLY your DOTs, show up next to each enemy in the Emnity List (the little thing with the coloured shapes to show your aggro on each mob). Sure would be nice if SE were to get angry about people using that on stream, and add it to the game in the very next patch, hint hint

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

WHM: Aero>Dia series at 12s
SCH: Bio series at 30s, Miasma series at 24s (with a cast time), Shadowflare ground AOE at 15s
AST: None, by deleting Combust to make room for a properly fleshed out card system
SGE: E.Dosis at 30s, same as it is now

..is how I'd do it. At least, in very simplified terms, there's more changes that I'd do alongside those to adjust level-up skill acquisition pacing, potency upgrade timings, traits to allow certain 'useless' skills to be consolidated and make better use of hotbar space, etc.

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See, I’d want to do it much more differently:

WHM: Either Aero/Dia at 30 seconds with Aerospark/Diacloud procs OR rework Aero/Dia into something that isn’t a DOT.

SCH: Bio III at 12 seconds, Miasma III at 24 seconds. Rework Shadowflare into a burst attack so it’s more like the traditional spell.

AST: Also none. Put more emphasis on damage redirected through other players.

SGE: Either E. Dosis at 15 seconds like in PVP OR none, and rework E. Dosis into the way you proc Kardia whereas regular Dosis does not.

Since we're all listing ideas, I'll also list what I'd personally like to see:

WHM: No DoT, instead they get Osmose, every tick will add potency to Dia up to a maximum of 30s.
SCH: Bio 12s, Miasma 24s, Shadowflare 18s.
AST: No DoT, instead they get a mini-Wildfire that they can stack up until it explodes.
SGE: A short 9s burn DoT on some of their more powerful laser weaponskills.

I hope your Shadowflare is GCD, right?

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Originally Posted by rawker

I hope your Shadowflare is GCD, right?

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Of course it's a GCD, I hated the SB Shadowflare that's on a CD.

I enjoy juggling plates on SCH, give me more plates to constantly juggle so I don't fall asleep.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

Since we're all listing ideas, I'll also list what I'd personally like to see:

WHM: No DoT, instead they get Osmose, every tick will add potency to Dia up to a maximum of 30s.
SCH: Bio 12s, Miasma 24s, Shadowflare 18s.
AST: No DoT, instead they get a mini-Wildfire that they can stack up until it explodes.
SGE: A short 9s burn DoT on some of their more powerful laser weaponskills.

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I really like this AST no dot variation. Maybe they could turn Combust into that so not to miss job fantasy. Bonus if this interacts with Earthly Star - if caught by the explosion, it will detonate for slightly more damage - to promote strategical play.

All and all, I don't mind healers having very basic tools. But there's absolute no justification for those to be literal copy paste of each other. I think the same about every tank having the same 1-2-3 combo, but at the very least they have many other distinct dps actions to spice it up.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

Of course it's a GCD, I hated the SB Shadowflare that's on a CD.

I enjoy juggling plates on SCH, give me more plates to constantly juggle so I don't fall asleep.

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Yes. It ticks both simplicity and aoe dot. I wouldn't mind if Broil and Art of War get a potency nerf for as long as we get miasma and shadowflare back

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

See, I’d want to do it much more differently:

WHM: Either Aero/Dia at 30 seconds with Aerospark/Diacloud procs OR rework Aero/Dia into something that isn’t a DOT.

SCH: Bio III at 12 seconds, Miasma III at 24 seconds. Rework Shadowflare into a burst attack so it’s more like the traditional spell.

AST: Also none. Put more emphasis on damage redirected through other players.

SGE: Either E. Dosis at 15 seconds like in PVP OR none, and rework E. Dosis into the way you proc Kardia whereas regular Dosis does not.

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No to both of your AST ideas. Stop making my solo play worse.

I'd rather see Combust stay at a lower refresh timer or a damage compile akin to Earthly Star take its place.

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

No to both of your AST ideas. Stop making my solo play worse.

I'd rather see Combust stay at a lower refresh timer or a damage compile akin to Earthly Star take its place.

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Thank you for crafting your own conclusion on an entire job kits worth of information out of literally one sentence about one single action and targeting me on it specifically despite others saying similar things.

I am constantly reminded that I need to stop saying anything about any job ever unless I have a fully fleshed out, prototyped, playtested, and balance tested job kit designed ready to go, otherwise everyone and their dog will interpret the literal worst case scenario and deem that to be the only humanly possible outcome that could ever stem from my single sentence.

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

No to both of your AST ideas. Stop making my solo play worse.

I'd rather see Combust stay at a lower refresh timer or a damage compile akin to Earthly Star take its place.

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By solo play you mean solo deep dungeon? fates? housing target dummy? I don't get it.

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Originally Posted by ZiraZ

By solo play you mean solo deep dungeon? fates? housing target dummy? I don't get it.

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Solo play is anything you can do alone. This means the MSQ, deep dungeons, field operations, FATE farming, etc.

While it may not be the focal point of FFXIV’s content, it is really important that all jobs feel good to play even when they’re alone, and even before Astrologian’s cards were gutted, back when the former card system made the lack of attack options not feel like a pain point in group content, trying to do things alone felt slow and burning. Just like today. So making sure even a job meant to prioritize damage through the party rather than the self can feel fun and fulfilling when playing solo is a much needed change. Though apparently some people know what I want more than I do, and I guess I don’t actually want that, which is news to me.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Thank you for crafting your own conclusion on an entire job kits worth of information out of literally one sentence about one single action and targeting me on it specifically despite others saying similar things.

I am constantly reminded that I need to stop saying anything about any job ever unless I have a fully fleshed out, prototyped, playtested, and balance tested job kit designed ready to go, otherwise everyone and their dog will interpret the literal worst case scenario and deem that to be the only humanly possible outcome that could ever stem from my single sentence.

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I said no to both of you. Its was easier to not multi-quote you both so I didn't, so I'm not targeting you specifically, just using your post because you mentioned how it would be similar but different.

Second, what am I supposed to concluded by your sentence? You specificed nothing. You didn't add for another attack, you didn't even clarify whether or not AST continues to have Combust. You said to put emphasis on other's which could mean either through the standard buffs we have now or by changing them to do indirect damage based on one idea I saw earlier but cannot confirm who made the suggestion, neither of which I'd want.

But sure, if you don't want me to comment at all I won't.

I admittedly also understood those comments as 'remove Combust' rather than 'no changes'

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

I said no to both of you. Its was easier to not multi-quote you both so I didn't, so I'm not targeting you specifically, just using your post because you mentioned how it would be similar but different.

Second, what am I supposed to concluded by your sentence? You specificed nothing. You didn't add for another attack, you didn't even clarify whether or not AST continues to have Combust. You said to put emphasis on other's which could mean either through the standard buffs we have now or by changing them to do indirect damage based on one idea I saw earlier but cannot confirm who made the suggestion, neither of which I'd want.

But sure, if you don't want me to comment at all I won't.

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Right, but you’re suggesting that I needed to have had several more actions listed out to justify not thinking Astro needs a DOT, which is what I was saying about not being allowed to comment on anything unless you’ve already designed a fully functional alternative healer design. Because otherwise you get people jumping to conclusions like how my idea apparently will only make Astrologian worst to play in solo content despite having only written literally a sentence talking about specifically DOTs. How do you know that what I’d do to Astro if I were the designer would make it worse in solo when you know almost nothing about any other ideas I might have? Because like you just said, you don’t even know if combust still exists in my interpretation of what Astro should look like.

Imagine handling other conversations like this.

“Hey, do you want to watch a movie?”

“Absolutely not. That movie sounds terrible and nothing like what I’d want to watch.”

“I didn’t even tell you what movie it was…”

“Exactly. You gave me no name, no genre, I don’t even know how long it is. So naturally it must be horrible.”

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

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So your idea is to remove the DoT. What then are you to replace it with? You made no mention of a compile or any alternative just a vague sense of "place the emphasis on other people". What conclusion did you want me to make? Logically I don't see why you wouldn't just add in a replacement to it in the same sentence unless you plan on removing it and nothing else.

I'm not asking for a full blown kit like you seem to be suggesting. I'm asking what your alternative is if then you aren't going to reduce the recast timer on the DoT like everyone else.

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

I said no to both of you. Its was easier to not multi-quote you both so I didn't, so I'm not targeting you specifically, just using your post because you mentioned how it would be similar but different.

Second, what am I supposed to concluded by your sentence? You specificed nothing. You didn't add for another attack, you didn't even clarify whether or not AST continues to have Combust. You said to put emphasis on other's which could mean either through the standard buffs we have now or by changing them to do indirect damage based on one idea I saw earlier but cannot confirm who made the suggestion, neither of which I'd want.

But sure, if you don't want me to comment at all I won't.

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To be fair, I had the same impression, I just felt rather discouraged when I saw what was proposed for AST.

I think AST's situation is a bit weird. Most everyone agrees that it should be a support healer with a lot of buffs, but where the line ends in the kit is hard to agree on.

While I personally also think that AST should have the identity of supporting their teammates with a lot of buffs, I do think that their own personal damage kit at least should not be reliant on other people.