Dark Knight Megathread

I picked up DRK again this morning for the first time since getting it to cap about a year ago. My big question: Why on earth is there a timer on the job gauge showing you how long living shadow is active if there's no way to make him stay longer AND his presence doesn't change your gameplay at all? That seems so weird to me. I'll also throw these ideas out there while I'm on the topic:

1. Make Shadowbringer a GCD.
2. Shadowbringer consumes 20 seconds of darkside and keeps Living Shadow out for an additional 10 seconds.
3. Add some passive effect to living shadow. Maybe you generate blood gauge faster, maybe you take less damage, maybe your mitigations last longer, or generate more MP, something like that.

If they made LS 'flat potency per hit, but strikes when you do', and allowed it to trigger 'bonus effects' that might be interesting, eg the MP restore from Syphon/Blood Weapon, or the Blood generation from BW or Souleater. They'd probably have to remove the horrendously long 'spawn in' animation, and have some way to get it out as one of the first moves available (maybe have it able to consume dark arts, and respawn/zone into instance with a dark arts proc ready?)

Still remember being very excited when the SHB job actions trailer came out because of LS, I had had a similar idea back in early Stormblood to steal Dancing Rune Weapon but make it 'our darkside' rather than a simple floating sword. Instead it's a glorified DOT that can 'sort of target swap but not very well'

If anything was to get hammered by a rework though, IMO it's Salted Earth, that skill is on a ventilator and an IV drip at this point, I'm surprised they added S+D as a followup rather than just deleting the damn thing. If it were up to me I'd make Salted 100% uptime, lower potency to compensate, 3s CD so you can easily reposition it, and give a bunch of bonus effects while you are inside it, like Syphon Strike stealing a bit more MP, or Souleater healing twice, or the slam of Plunge causing an eruption of darkness (you know, like Salt and Darkness currently does). Then you'd be able to have a conditional trigger like 'while inside your Salted Earth, your MP drains steadily to pause Living Shadow's remaining time' or something. Oh and I'd also rename Living Dead to 'Borrowed Time', I mean come on the icon's an hourglass how did they miss a trick that easy

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引用元：Oizen

With the shift to every tank having some short ~25s CD Super Mitigation tool, the game really doesn't teach you how to use it optimally at all. I think it be good to teach players earlier on by increasing the need for tanks to actually use their mitigations.

Tank is honestly all over the place in terms of how difficult or easy it can be based on the content being run its honestly a bit crazy.

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It would be nothing but beneficial for us if they increased the need for us to actually use them. Kinda sucks to see something like Shadow Wall be on the bench until a Tankbuster when TBN+oblation in itself is generally enough outside of trash pulls.

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引用元：ForsakenRoe

If they made LS 'flat potency per hit, but strikes when you do', and allowed it to trigger 'bonus effects' that might be interesting, eg the MP restore from Syphon/Blood Weapon, or the Blood generation from BW or Souleater. They'd probably have to remove the horrendously long 'spawn in' animation, and have some way to get it out as one of the first moves available (maybe have it able to consume dark arts, and respawn/zone into instance with a dark arts proc ready?)

Still remember being very excited when the SHB job actions trailer came out because of LS, I had had a similar idea back in early Stormblood to steal Dancing Rune Weapon but make it 'our darkside' rather than a simple floating sword. Instead it's a glorified DOT that can 'sort of target swap but not very well'

If anything was to get hammered by a rework though, IMO it's Salted Earth, that skill is on a ventilator and an IV drip at this point, I'm surprised they added S+D as a followup rather than just deleting the damn thing. If it were up to me I'd make Salted 100% uptime, lower potency to compensate, 3s CD so you can easily reposition it, and give a bunch of bonus effects while you are inside it, like Syphon Strike stealing a bit more MP, or Souleater healing twice, or the slam of Plunge causing an eruption of darkness (you know, like Salt and Darkness currently does). Then you'd be able to have a conditional trigger like 'while inside your Salted Earth, your MP drains steadily to pause Living Shadow's remaining time' or something. Oh and I'd also rename Living Dead to 'Borrowed Time', I mean come on the icon's an hourglass how did they miss a trick that easy

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I just want Living Shadow to get reworked into something that merges with us and gives us some extra high power abilities. Something that isn't its current state of glorified DoT

That being said, I'm honestly surprised about Salted Earth as well. If they don't give it some sort of boon for us like it does in pvp I'm still fully expecting for it to get deleted in 7.0, though, and see it be replaced with some sort of GCD. Something either like Death's Design or the Goring Blade treatment.

I think it be really cool if Salted gave the mitigation and healing it does from PVP. The damage boost is probably a bit much, but the other two would be really appreciated, especially if its mitigation/healing affected the entire party.
It would make it an interesting tool thats a mix of damage and defensive utility, could also change Salt and Darkness to give a burst of healing while inside it as well.

I really hope the skill isn't scrapped because honestly 6.0 PVP has shown how cool Salted Earth could be as a skill.

I'd like to see the free EoS you get from TBN to heal you as well when you use it. It would justify the 3k mana you spend on TBN at least.

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引用元：SamSpirit

I'd like to see the free EoS you get from TBN to heal you as well when you use it. It would justify the 3k mana you spend on TBN at least.

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I personally wouldn't care if they add a heal to it or not, but the mana cost is already justified by the short CD that TBN has, otherwise it would be 25 seconds like WAR/GNB. Especially this tier that's a huge advantage because with good timing you could use 2 TBNs every tankbuster and mitigate for 50% of your health or split it between tanks if needed.

The mana cost will never be justified when it's taking a resource that damage moves also take, because that means it will always be a DPS loss to use (DPS neutral at best).

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引用元：RyuDragnier

The mana cost will never be justified when it's taking a resource that damage moves also take, because that means it will always be a DPS loss to use (DPS neutral at best).

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Like I said, the MP cost is what allows it to be on a shorter CD and give you more uptime on it which is not something to sneeze at, so there's definitely a good reason to make TBN cost 3000 MP. Anytime Square ties utility to some kind of resource, they always give it a shorter CD like SAM's Gyoten, PLD's Shelltron, formerly WAR's Onslaught. Hence why I would be opposed to removing the MP cost entirely so as not to lose that aspect. Now could they just have TBN automatically grant a DA proc as soon as you use it or when the shield expires to make it fully damage neutral? Sure I guess, I personally would say it's really not that big a deal and to time TBN better, but that option is there.

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引用元：baklava151

Like I said, the MP cost is what allows it to be on a shorter CD and give you more uptime on it which is not something to sneeze at, so there's definitely a good reason to make TBN cost 3000 MP. Anytime Square ties utility to some kind of resource, they always give it a shorter CD like SAM's Gyoten, PLD's Shelltron, formerly WAR's Onslaught. Hence why I would be opposed to removing the MP cost entirely so as not to lose that aspect. Now could they just have TBN automatically grant a DA proc as soon as you use it or when the shield expires to make it fully damage neutral? Sure I guess, I personally would say it's really not that big a deal and to time TBN better, but that option is there.

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I'd prefer for TBN to have no MP cost and be on a 25s cooldown. Make it so if the shield doesn't break, the remaining HP of the shield is thrown back into your health pool, and if it does break, you get a regen. Then we could throw something that could be a potency boost skill (think something like Kaiten) to replace it in the MP cost pool.

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引用元：RyuDragnier

I'd prefer for TBN to have no MP cost and be on a 25s cooldown. Make it so if the shield doesn't break, the remaining HP of the shield is thrown back into your health pool, and if it does break, you get a regen. Then we could throw something that could be a potency boost skill (think something like Kaiten) to replace it in the MP cost pool.

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https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...915.1678137076

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引用元：Zairava

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...915.1678137076

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Yes, DA would be the one. And since that would make it 3K cost that doesn't give Darkside, we're not able to spam it all the time.

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引用元：RyuDragnier

Yes, DA would be the one. And since that would make it 3K cost that doesn't give Darkside, we're not able to spam it all the time.

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To actually be constructive about this, to bring up a prior point..

Bring Shadowskin back as a low level TBN, make it upgrade into TBN, and make TBN evolve into Oblation while keeping the shield portion of it.

Upon the shield fading or breaking, then provide a regen.

Bring back Dark Arts and increase the cooldown on Oblation (referencing the Oblation in my above modification, of course).

How Dark Arts would be used should explain itself by now, but it would enhance various abilities (GCD's preferably) or grant access to such. Ideally would be used once or twice a minute due to the mana cost.

If they were to keep edge and flood of shadow, there's various methods to remedy "but would it be worth it".

Dark Arts could:

• Grant access to a DoT or something like Death's Design
• Grant access to an upgraded GCD combo entirely (or just the combo ender) for both single target and aoe
• Let certain abilities have various boons such as standing in Salted Earth granting a defense boost to the DRK while standing inside of it.
• Amplifying effects that are already there. Such as buffing the cure potency on Abyssal Drain by, say, 400.
• Resetting the cooldown of Abyssal Drain

these are options, not all of them provided at the same time. SE would be free to choose what they like best out of these. Of course, they wouldn't be limited to just one out of the list, or this list in itself, for that matter.

I really don't think Dark Arts is ever coming back.

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引用元：Oizen

I really don't think Dark Arts is ever coming back.

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The name never left. That's the proc you get for TBN breaking right now, Dark Arts.

In name only. The nearest thing in the game to it is that button sage presses sometimes

SB Dark Arts was never as good as Sage's. I really hated how carpal tunnel it could get.

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引用元：Mekhana

SB Dark Arts was never as good as Sage's. I really hated how carpal tunnel it could get.

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Same here. Which is why I think it could return now if it costs 3K MP. As long as it doesn't give Darkside and only effects GCDs, it wouldn't be much of an issue.

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引用元：Zairava

[*]Let certain abilities have various boons such as standing in Salted Earth granting a defense boost to the DRK while standing inside of it..

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引用元：Oizen

I think it be really cool if Salted gave the mitigation and healing it does from PVP.

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I'll truly never understand people's fascination on wanting to put defensive/healing effects on skills that they'd be borderline useless on. You're never going to hold Salted Earth due to it being a dps loss, meaning any defensive/healing bonuses to it would be effective irrelevant unless the bosses's rotation just happens to line up that way when you use it...on top of being so infrequent due to it being 90s. Would do nothing to help DRK's sustain in any meaningful way whatsoever. Inner Beast, Shield Swipe and old Dark Arts showed that anytime you mix any form of defensive & offensive utility on the same button / resource, the defensive side is minimized outside of the most dire emergencies because dps is the only thing that matters in this game. Stick the healing on Oblation / AoE combo / MP spenders / Blood spenders that appear frequently in your rotation where you have some degree of control over when its used and thus, actually useful for real sustain.

If Dark Arts ever came back as its own separate button with even remotely the same sort of effect as it used to have, it would either have to be:
-Purely a defensive button / modifies purely defensive abilities (while not using any form of MP to prevent competition with Edge/Flood and prevent the new DA from instantly being dead on arrival)
-Purely offensive / modifies purely offensive abilities (which draws into question of it being redundant when Edge of Shadow is literally old Dark Arts taken to its logical conclusion of the dps > all game design that every good DRK was doing in SB / late HW)

Given job design in this game, the only way I ever see it coming back as something akin to life surge, where its just a multi charge, no resource cost button that auto crits a skill of your choice.

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引用元：Daeriion_Aeradiir

I'll truly never understand people's fascination on wanting to put defensive/healing effects on skills that they'd be borderline useless on. You're never going to hold Salted Earth due to it being a dps loss, meaning any defensive/healing bonuses to it would be effective irrelevant unless the bosses's rotation just happens to line up that way when you use it...on top of being so infrequent due to it being 90s. Would do nothing to help DRK's sustain in any meaningful way whatsoever. Inner Beast, Shield Swipe and old Dark Arts showed that anytime you mix any form of defensive & offensive utility on the same button / resource, the defensive side is minimized outside of the most dire emergencies because dps is the only thing that matters in this game. Stick the healing on Oblation / AoE combo / MP spenders / Blood spenders that appear frequently in your rotation where you have some degree of control over when its used and thus, actually useful for real sustain.

If Dark Arts ever came back as its own separate button with even remotely the same sort of effect as it used to have, it would either have to be:
-Purely a defensive button / modifies purely defensive abilities (while not using any form of MP to prevent competition with Edge/Flood and prevent the new DA from instantly being dead on arrival)
-Purely offensive / modifies purely offensive abilities (which draws into question of it being redundant when Edge of Shadow is literally old Dark Arts taken to its logical conclusion of the dps > all game design that every good DRK was doing in SB / late HW)

Given job design in this game, the only way I ever see it coming back as something akin to life surge, where its just a multi charge, no resource cost button that auto crits a skill of your choice.

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Dont know what you're talkin about, Salted would be amazing in dungeons and solve DRK's issues there if it had a heal.

But then I also don't mind if every single skill isn't specifically geared for min maxing week 1 savage clears specifically.

I miss the DA animation tbh. That, scourage and dark passenger were really great animations. Edge and flood are just lazy.

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引用元：Derio

I miss the DA animation tbh. That, scourage and dark passenger were really great animations. Edge and flood are just lazy.

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A lot of removed animations of DRK are cooler than what we currently have. Its probably my biggest complaint about the job honestly.

Power Slash deserves to come back in some form.

I gave this a bit of thought and realized that perhaps the return of older abilities might make the job better ( with some tweaks ). Here are a couple of examples I thought about thoroughly.

1. Scourge, 20 sec CD, GCD. No combo requirements. Does 450 potency.
Works similar to Goring Blade, but on a shorter CD. The job needs GCDs and introducing a different combo path is tricky but a new high damage high frequency GCD would be welcomed.

2. Dark Mind changed to grant 10% magic mitigation and 10% physical. Upgrades into Oblation at level 82 which grants 20% magic mitigation and 10% physical on 2 charges with a 45 second charge CD.
They do the same thing and its kind of bloating the hotbar.

3. Sole Survivor: Marks target with the status Another Victim. If that target should be KO'd in battle before the effect expires, 30% of your maximum HP and MP will be restored. If the effect expires first, 20% of your maximum HP will be restored instead. 60s CD. Lasts 10s.
The problem with this skill was that before it would be used on cooldown for the damage, now you'd really only use it in dungeons ahead of time to make sure you do not die, and in Ultimate before the boss dies or in any 1 boss encounter ( Extreme / Savage ) where you will need healing.

4. Blood Price could return as a trait that activates whenever you use an attack that normally consumes blood healing you for a potency of 300. This would be extremely useful in raids when you want to heal yourself over time as you take auto attacks as you do a lot of bloodspiller. This trait could also make it so that when you are in combat you generate 1 blood every 3 seconds, and 1 blood when hit. Dungeon situations would allow the use of more Bloodspiller which would heal you.

5. Delirium could maybe grant you the execution of a special 3 part combo that starts with Bloodspiller only when Delirium is active. Otherwise normally Bloodspiller works the same way it does now. Quietus removed, AoE fall off damage added to Bloodspiller.

6. Blood weapon and Delirium could be moved down to 40 sec CD along with Carve and spit, as to better increase frequency and reduce the amount of 1-2-3 you do since you are using them more frequently.

I've spent some time thinking about HW DRK (I only played it up to like 48 before Stormblood) and watching old VoDs and shit would that be more fun than what we have now. I had totally forgotten about scourge and old delirium's combo. I also miss how much resource management played into DRK (and jobs now generally). Now DRK's resource management is just "stay between 3k and 6k MP and don't overcap blood gauge." If they brought back the old delirium combo and scourge, changed their effects to play into the blood gauge or living shadow DRK could be tons of fun again. Maybe scourge lets you generate extra MP on the target for a few seconds, maybe delerium keeps living shadow out longer, maybe spinning slash makes your next few GCDs generate more gauge, something like that. Maybe some of these could consume part of darkside's duration so DRK has more to keep track of.

I do understand the nostalgia of the old animations, even if they are around 10 years old at this point. But if you were adding three new actions with the new expansion, would you really want to see Scourge re-implemented as a stand-alone 60s recast Sonic Break/Goring Blade equivalent? Scourge itself existed at a time when single target DoTs interrupted your combo and your combo length itself was variable (due to Blood Weapon's haste effect). You can't take it out of that context and expect it to have the same effect on gameplay.

Any 'upgrade' to Dark Mind is going to come with a fairly substantial nerf in its recast. It's the same as with TBN. Just leave sleeping dragons lie.

Blood Price is probably the most interesting effect out of the ones discussed. I could see a 'Dread Spikes' type ability being added where you can heal back a portion of damage dealt to you. I don't think you could directly copy FFXI's version, but it may be case of 'heal back X% of the damage dealt to you in the past Y seconds'.

DRK does need more GCD actions, though. I'm hoping that they add on a combo action that follows Bloodspiller, because that by extension will influence Delirium as well. It would also be nice to see some form of burst finisher (Level 100 seems like the best time to bring out Omnislash and Lionheart). And all tanks could do with a second look at their mobility tools. Melee is miles ahead at this point.

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引用元：Lyth

I do understand the nostalgia of the old animations, even if they are around 10 years old at this point. But if you were adding three new actions with the new expansion, would you really want to see Scourge re-implemented as a stand-alone 60s recast Sonic Break/Goring Blade equivalent? Scourge itself existed at a time when single target DoTs interrupted your combo and your combo length itself was variable (due to Blood Weapon's haste effect). You can't take it out of that context and expect it to have the same effect on gameplay.

DRK does need more GCD actions, though. I'm hoping that they add on a combo action that follows Bloodspiller, because that by extension will influence Delirium as well. It would also be nice to see some form of burst finisher (Level 100 seems like the best time to bring out Omnislash and Lionheart). And all tanks could do with a second look at their mobility tools. Melee is miles ahead at this point.

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I could think of multiple methods of bringing back those old animations, including reworking the actual job itself. I don't care if Scourge comes back as even just a 30s flat damage CD because it would still be at least something during downtime. There's definitely much better ways to revive it, though. (Making a Delirium-activated combo, DRK Death's Design or just a DoT (as a GCD), see my ideas for Dark Arts Revival, etc).

For Power Slash I think it's most likely they would just make it an upgrade for Souleater or put it in the hypothetical Delirium combo.

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引用元：Lyth

Any 'upgrade' to Dark Mind is going to come with a fairly substantial nerf in its recast. It's the same as with TBN. Just leave sleeping dragons lie.

Blood Price is probably the most interesting effect out of the ones discussed. I could see a 'Dread Spikes' type ability being added where you can heal back a portion of damage dealt to you. I don't think you could directly copy FFXI's version, but it may be case of 'heal back X% of the damage dealt to you in the past Y seconds'.

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Nah, we know they would do that, it just makes sense to do so to make room for more abilities. (Hopefully GCD's)

I'm fine with Dark Mind as is, but I'm of the opinion TBN feels like it should upgrade into Oblation. It's confusing as to why they didn't, everywhere you would use TBN you would use Oblation anyway (and neither is it hard to break the shield in said applications). You could make the argument for autos...I guess? Good luck getting that consistent unless there's a room wide aoe coming.

Blood Price being revamped into something that heals you at the end of the duration depending on the damage you took sounds pretty cool though, ngl.

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引用元：Lyth

You can't take it out of that context and expect it to have the same effect on gameplay.

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Yes but right now the job needs 2 things: higher frequency and more GCDs. Bringing Scourge back as a GCD that just does a lot of damage with a short CD ( like 20 secs ) would be fine as it does align with 2 minute burst windows fairly easily. Making it with AoE fall off would also encourage you pressing it in dungeons. You cannot make this new GCD create another combo path as that would you mean either have to generate another buff ( You are already managing darkside and blood! ) and if its there to just do more damage then why would you use Souleater?

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引用元：Lyth

Any 'upgrade' to Dark Mind is going to come with a fairly substantial nerf in its recast. It's the same as with TBN. Just leave sleeping dragons lie.

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Not always I think. If you keep the current Oblation design of 2 charges with a 60 sec recast per charge and put Dark Mind's 20% magic damage reduction into Oblation it wouldn't change much in terms of how often you use it. I cannot recall a fight where you wouldn't have Oblation ready for a buster and neither Shadow Wall nor Rampart.
At the same time I absolutely hate to have to press 3 buttons or 4 instead of 1 less on a oGCD heavy job, and honestly the mitigation % would be the same as you always use Oblation with Dark Mind anyway if the damage is magical.

I also tend to believe that lowering the CDs of Delirium and Blood weapon down to 40 seconds would be beneficial for more frequency with perhaps merging them into one button as that would give you 1 more space for a new ability, and if you are >70 blood before you go into "Merged Blood weapon and delirium" you just use 1 bloodspiller before anyway. Same applies for Dark Mind and Oblation.

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引用元：Lyth

I do understand the nostalgia of the old animations, even if they are around 10 years old at this point. But if you were adding three new actions with the new expansion, would you really want to see Scourge re-implemented as a stand-alone 60s recast Sonic Break/Goring Blade equivalent? Scourge itself existed at a time when single target DoTs interrupted your combo and your combo length itself was variable (due to Blood Weapon's haste effect). You can't take it out of that context and expect it to have the same effect on gameplay.

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Oh i said nothing about recast timers or it being a DoT. In fact I overtly hope it isn't a DoT, and doesn't have a 1min recast but plays into DRK's resources somehow. For the record I hate sonic break/goring blade and would love to see them reworked somehow.

I think if you reintroduced Scourge to the game, the playerbase would expect it to be a DoT and you would get complaints if it wasn't. If you want a new effect, it would be much better to create a new action name and a new animation that perhaps draws on the inspiration of the original without copying it.

The only real benefit that I could see in bringing back Scourge would be if you could implement it as a vampiric debuff that drained HP over time (with Soul Survivor giving you the remainder of the HP if the mob dies with the effect active). Or perhaps you upgrade the Carve and Spit/Abyssal Drain duo into a single high potency AoE with a drain over time effect. I wouldn't be surprised if that pair of abilities ends up being one of their upgrade targets anyways.

I don't really see the point in bringing back Power Slash just to replace Souleater. Especially since the latter is a signature action for DRK across the franchise. I miss DRK's speed boost the most out of all the gameplay changes, and Power Slash was always the slowest part of pre-Shadowbringers DRK. It was also the one move that good DRK players virtually never used, so it just feels wrong on a lot of levels. An additional combo action would be a nice addition, but the place to add it is after Bloodspiller.

While I think Oblation doesn't really have a great niche and would rather see it incorporated into a defensive upgrade, the chances of getting two charges of 20% DR Dark Mind on a 60 second recast seems fairly unlikely when you consider the likes of Camouflage. Unless they make a decision to just upgrade Camo/DM/Thrill/Bulwark together, which would be a waste of an expansion action on all tanks. The only mitigation move that I could see a case for upgrading is Dark Missionary. Just replace it with Runic if it has to be magical themed. Otherwise, just give us a Weapon Break style debuff that works on both damage types.

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引用元：Lyth

I think if you reintroduced Scourge to the game, the playerbase would expect it to be a DoT and you would get complaints if it wasn't. If you want a new effect, it would be much better to create a new action name and a new animation that perhaps draws on the inspiration of the original without copying it.

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As long as it feels like it has some actual weight behind it, I guess. What we got in endwalker is quite underwhelming, neither Shadowbringer nor Salt and Darkness feel satisfying to press.

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引用元：Lyth

perhaps you upgrade the Carve and Spit/Abyssal Drain duo into a single high potency AoE with a drain over time effect. I wouldn't be surprised if that pair of abilities ends up being one of their upgrade targets anyways.

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If they insist on keeping them combined, this is what I expect they'd do (and at this point, I would welcome this change). Would this drain over time be a DoT that heals you for each damage tick?

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引用元：Lyth

I don't really see the point in bringing back Power Slash just to replace Souleater. Especially since the latter is a signature action for DRK across the franchise. I miss DRK's speed boost the most out of all the gameplay changes, and Power Slash was always the slowest part of pre-Shadowbringers DRK. It was also the one move that good DRK players virtually never used, so it just feels wrong on a lot of levels. An additional combo action would be a nice addition, but the place to add it is after Bloodspiller.

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The only reason why it was barely used was because it was the enmity combo ender. The animation and by name is nothing short of iconic for the job in XIV. If it was the other way around and Power Slash was the dps combo ender, that's what we would have as our current combo ender. As well as if we had the choice between the two, even without the name being tied to animation, most of us would probably swap Souleater's for Power Slash's.

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引用元：Lyth

While I think Oblation doesn't really have a great niche and would rather see it incorporated into a defensive upgrade, the chances of getting two charges of 20% DR Dark Mind on a 60 second recast seems fairly unlikely when you consider the likes of Camouflage. Unless they make a decision to just upgrade Camo/DM/Thrill/Bulwark together, which would be a waste of an expansion action on all tanks. The only mitigation move that I could see a case for upgrading is Dark Missionary. Just replace it with Runic if it has to be magical themed. Otherwise, just give us a Weapon Break style debuff that works on both damage types.

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Mostly agreed here (but for the love of god if it's combined with something keep Oblation as the ability used for the upgrade. It's the one thing we got this expansion that looks cool to use).

I'm honestly okay with Dark missionary as is since I'm pretty satisfied with being more magic defense capable. I'm indifferent on whether we get it at a lower level or not.

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引用元：Zairava

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The problem with Shadowbringer/Salt and Darkness is that they're just damage oGCDs, which we already have plenty of. There's nothing there that really changes gameplay or makes the job play differently. It's quite easy for them to just add in new animations and leave the job the same for minimal effort.

The question to ask is what is the biggest gameplay improvement we can achieve by adding in a single action? We've identified that the relative lack of GCDs (4 single target/3 AoE) is an issue. You could expand on the existing combo system, but then how do you do that? You could branch a combo off of Syphon, or use two out of your three actions to branch a combo off of Hard Slash. But most of these possibilities are just going to be damage combo vs. maintenance combo that we get on so many jobs. You could also use a fixed recast GCD like we've described for Sonic Break/Goring Blade, or the various MCH tools. Scourge would fit into this category, and yes, I'd suggest that it incorporate a DoT effect that does lifesteal over time (and gives you burst healing if the target dies).

Yet another option is to add on a second step to follow Bloodspiller. What makes this interesting is that you not only have a resource-gated second combo, but it also changes up your GCD sequence during Delirium as well, because it transforms it into a 6 step sequence. Bonus points if Delirium grants blood moves a 1.5s GCD, in honor of the old Blood Weapon, leading into a finisher. And again, while you can re-use plenty of animations from the past (including Power Slash), I'd rather that they actually invest the effort into making fresh animations. Do you remember the Shadowbringers benchmark that they released? During the introductory sequence, the Warrior of Darkness performs a series of empowered sword slashes that we never see again. If they can do it for a single cutscene that isn't even in the base game, then I expect to see them put in the effort into the update. Not just Power Slash 2 with more sparkles.

I dislike Dark Missionary for the fact that it has the single silliest name out of any action in the game, for the fact that it's exactly identical to Heart of Light, and for the fact that both are consistently inferior to the options that PLD and WAR have despite being on the same recast.

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引用元：Lyth

Snip

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I actually agree with shadowbringer, I feel like if the animation was slowed down a smidge and it was moved to being a GCD it would feel better. (and if they keep the darkside timer. make it cost 15s or so)

I'm still unsure how to feel about Salt and Darkness, it feels like a missed opportunity to make Salted Earth something more than just, as you said, for damage and really nothing else.

If we're going to give Delirium the haste effect that old Blood Weapon had, why not merge Delirium with Blood Weapon, or vice versa? Blood weapon would be more than just enough mana for another edge/flood and Blood Gauge generation, and Delirium would be something more than just use the same thing three times.

Though, with "using the same thing three times" being the core issue with that ability in the first place, implementing that series of empowered sword slashes from the Shadowbringers benchmark with a 1.5 GCD sounds pretty enticing.

Happened to come across some interesting ideas I thought I'd post since after looking at how many edges DRK uses and how much Darkside duration you can get I came up with something. Everything not mentioned stays the same. Across expansions Dark Knight tool kit has revolved around ~25 abilities so I won't be adding or removing more than that. I am also considering lower levels.

->Dark Mind grants 10% damage. At level 82, upgrades to Oblation, granting an additional 20% magic damage mitigation.

->Dark Missionary should be obtained at level 66.

->Carve and Spit / Abyssal Drain moved to be GCDs with 20 sec CDs.

->Bloodspiller combos into 2 more actions, part of a combo, each action costing 15 blood.

->Living Shadow increases Darkside's damage bonus to 25% for 20 seconds. Fray merges with you giving you an enshroud like effect but suited to DRK fantasy.

->Delirium grants the Delirium buff for 10 seconds. During this time Darkside cannot be obtained from Edge/Flood of Shadow, they instead increase the bloodgauge by 20!

->Quietus removed. Bloodspiller combo can have AoE fall-off.

->To replace Quietus and Dark Mind merged into Oblation you can gain Blood price and Sole Survivor.

->Blood price: When around more than 2 enemies, getting hit increases the Bloodgauge. Should be obtained in Stormblood.

->Sole Survivor: Marks target for execution. If target is killed, gain HP and MP. If target survives, gain only HP. Should be obtained in Endwalker for sustain purposes.

->Salted earth gives a regeneration effect while standing inside it. Salt and Darkness heals the DRK instantly.

Idea of mini rework:
Minimize the use of EoS/FoS outside Delirium, but make sure you keep Darkside up.
Maximize the use of EoS/FoS inside Delirium to increase the bloodgauge.
Use the bloodgauge specifically to use the Bloodspiller combo as many times as possible under Living Shadow.
Play around with TBN's Dark Arts!
More GCDs.
Merge similar defensive CDs for easier weaving of defenses, add identity in the defensive / utility kit, solidify dungeon sustain.
Add more intensity to downtime periods: C&S being 20 seconds and managing Darkside more carefully.
Distance DRK's gameplay from WAR.

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引用元：ItsUrBoi

->Dark Mind grants 10% damage. At level 82, upgrades to Oblation, granting an additional 20% magic damage mitigation.

->Dark Missionary should be obtained at level 66.

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My stance in these really hasn't changed. Oblation feels by and large like TBN should evolve into it. I'm indifferent on Dark Missionary being at a lower level or not.

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引用元：ItsUrBoi

->Carve and Spit / Abyssal Drain moved to be GCDs with 20 sec CDs.

->Bloodspiller combos into 2 more actions, part of a combo, each action costing 15 blood.

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Carve and Spit/Abyssal Drain being 20s on the GCD would feel more active...but at this point they might as well combine them into one single new ability. Don't get me wrong, I would like them to be separate and have Abyssal Drain back on the GCD with a mana cost, but that doesn't look like the direction it's headed.

Each action costing gauge sounds nice, especially considering there potentially could be micro-optimizations to be had, but that's also why they'd mostly just keep it as a combo starter that costs 50 gauge, and the rest free.

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引用元：ItsUrBoi

->Living Shadow increases Darkside's damage bonus to 25% for 20 seconds. Fray merges with you giving you an enshroud like effect but suited to DRK fantasy.

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I've stated my support a lot for this in the past, and will continue to show said support.

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引用元：ItsUrBoi

->Delirium grants the Delirium buff for 10 seconds. During this time Darkside cannot be obtained from Edge/Flood of Shadow, they instead increase the bloodgauge by 20!

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I'm honestly not sure if I like how this functions. If we're going to have interactivity with the Darkside timer and the Blood Gauge, I would prefer if we had an ability that converts some of the Darkside timer into Blood gauge. idk...15-30s of it, since edge/flood gives 30s?

If we were to receive an ability to convert some of the timer into Blood gauge, I feel like that would feel more like management than merely chopping off access to gaining any Darkside.

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引用元：ItsUrBoi

->Quietus removed. Bloodspiller combo can have AoE fall-off.

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I feel like Quietus could be used in the hypothetical Delirium combo we've discussed in the past.

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引用元：ItsUrBoi

->To replace Quietus and Dark Mind merged into Oblation you can gain Blood price and Sole Survivor.

->Blood price: When around more than 2 enemies, getting hit increases the Bloodgauge. Should be obtained in Stormblood.

->Sole Survivor: Marks target for execution. If target is killed, gain HP and MP. If target survives, gain only HP. Should be obtained in Endwalker for sustain purposes.

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I feel like the revamped Blood Price me and Lyth discussed actually would cover both of these.

Basically, Blood Price would a sustain tool. At the end of it's duration we recover a portion of the damage we took. The amount healed can be capped for balance purposes so DRK isn't potentially immortal in any given situation.

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引用元：ItsUrBoi

->Salted earth gives a regeneration effect while standing inside it. Salt and Darkness heals the DRK instantly.

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I personally think Salted Earth could grant the user 10% mit, and then Salt and Darkness could be the heal, so they aren't just one big sustain tool when we're already giving DRK more sustain to begin with.

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引用元：Zairava

My stance in these really hasn't changed. Oblation feels by and large like TBN should evolve into it. I'm indifferent on Dark Missionary being at a lower level or not.

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Putting more into TBN is bad since it will make it harder to break, especially in lower content like Trials / Normal Raids, therefore making the use of Dark Arts harder. Instead let's try to consolidate defensive cooldowns that are lackluster: Oblation due to being only 10% and Dark Mind which is 20% against magical is cool, IF its magical damage and if it is you do need Oblation on top anyway, if its not, its useless.

I think I suggested something similar a while ago but there are design problems around that as you'd have to weave in YET ANOTHER off GCD to consume Darkside and that's just making it worse for your double weaving. Instead what I suggested with Edge/Flood of Shadow used under Delirium granting blood instead of Darkside is basically the same but smoother I think.

The job needs some sustain to make up for the lack of AoE survivability and constantly getting hit by hard hitting auto attacks in raids. My idea was that when you enter Salted Earth's area you gain a buff that stays on you even if you leave Salted Earth's area and which heals you over time slowly and makes it so that when you use Salt and Darkness you gain a small burst of healing. Adding mitigation to it might be overly complicated as you can just have that mitigation within the new Oblation ( Dark Mind's 20% magical + 10% overall damage reduction from current Oblation ) and the 20sec cooldown on C&S / Abyssal Drain.

Yeah having an ability that stores damage taken then heals you when reactivated or upon effect fading is cool too!

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引用元：ItsUrBoi

Putting more into TBN is bad since it will make it harder to break, especially in lower content like Trials / Normal Raids, therefore making the use of Dark Arts harder. Instead let's try to consolidate defensive cooldowns that are lackluster: Oblation due to being only 10% and Dark Mind which is 20% against magical is cool, IF its magical damage and if it is you do need Oblation on top anyway, if its not, its useless.

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I've already stated this in prior posts, but not really. You already use other cooldowns with TBN specifically because it makes TBN stronger. Everywhere you use it want something to be used with it anyway (Which is generally oblation), and where that is applied, the shield isn't hard to break. It pops in no time flat in trash mob pulls, and using it on tankbusters you already use Oblation in tandem because it's a light mitigation of 10%. Using TBN on auto's outside of pull is ill advised because it is inconsistent. You would want to time it around when raid-wide aoe damage is being dished out but at that point it would be better to use it on anyone that isn't a tank anyway.

What DOES make TBN harder to pop is the inevitable power creep because of our HP values going up.

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引用元：ItsUrBoi

I think I suggested something similar a while ago but there are design problems around that as you'd have to weave in YET ANOTHER off GCD to consume Darkside and that's just making it worse for your double weaving. Instead what I suggested with Edge/Flood of Shadow used under Delirium granting blood instead of Darkside is basically the same but smoother I think.

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This would be remedied by reducing the oGCD bloat during out 2-minute and opener, which we have talked about solutions for that extensively. The reason I advocate for something similar to Hagakure for Darkside->Blood Gauge is basically what I already stated. I think we're solving the issue with Darkside but just are listing different ways to go about it.

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引用元：ItsUrBoi

The job needs some sustain to make up for the lack of AoE survivability and constantly getting hit by hard hitting auto attacks in raids. My idea was that when you enter Salted Earth's area you gain a buff that stays on you even if you leave Salted Earth's area and which heals you over time slowly and makes it so that when you use Salt and Darkness you gain a small burst of healing. Adding mitigation to it might be overly complicated as you can just have that mitigation within the new Oblation ( Dark Mind's 20% magical + 10% overall damage reduction from current Oblation ) and the 20sec cooldown on C&S / Abyssal Drain.

Yeah having an ability that stores damage taken then heals you when reactivated or upon effect fading is cool too!

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I agree, I just think we need only one form of added sustain, DRK is already very strong defensively to stand on it's own, and I like that. I believe the Blood Price revamp would more than provide what's necessary and the most easily applicable one in all situations, while simultaneously being one of the more interesting tank CD's.

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引用元：Daeriion_Aeradiir

If Dark Arts ever came back as its own separate button with even remotely the same sort of effect as it used to have, it would either have to be:
-Purely a defensive button / modifies purely defensive abilities (while not using any form of MP to prevent competition with Edge/Flood and prevent the new DA from instantly being dead on arrival)
-Purely offensive / modifies purely offensive abilities (which draws into question of it being redundant when Edge of Shadow is literally old Dark Arts taken to its logical conclusion of the dps > all game design that every good DRK was doing in SB / late HW)

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You seem to be making this assumption on the basis of a single past tuning point. And yes, I do mean single. Its potency bonus, its relative potency contribution, and its defensive benefits were never changed between HW and StB.

The choice between, say, an extra X% mitigation for Y seconds and an extra Z potency (say, 140, as before) will have a best answer, but its balance point can absolutely placed at a point where that best answer is varied.

Given more than a single attempt ever for balancing, it's unlikely that an either-/mixed-use resource would have only a single real use available to it. The larger issue instead is the impact that can have on the job's output ceilings now that so few jobs have means of trading offensive throughput for sustain (pretty much only Paladin, and very poorly at that). Though honestly... that's a better reason to give such control back to tanks, rather than avoid an entire (and previously core) area of tank gameplay.

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引用元：Oizen

I think it be really cool if Salted gave the mitigation and healing it does from PVP. The damage boost is probably a bit much, but the other two would be really appreciated, especially if its mitigation/healing affected the entire party.
It would make it an interesting tool thats a mix of damage and defensive utility, could also change Salt and Darkness to give a burst of healing while inside it as well.

I really hope the skill isn't scrapped because honestly 6.0 PVP has shown how cool Salted Earth could be as a skill.

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Let's assume for a moment that DRK gets an ultimately balanced amount of sustain (effective healing + effective mitigation) and AoE damage. Consider then the gameplay:

• How dependent do you want DRK to be upon staying inside that red circle? Does that constraint seem particularly "DRK" to you? Does an emphasis on persisting ground effects seem more iconic of "DRK" than of any other job?
• How dependent do you want your team to be, in making full use of DRK's kit, on staying inside that little red circle? Does making your allies group up in that red circle seem more iconic of "DRK" than of any other job?

Ultimately, that should be your main reason as to whether you should siphon that sustain towards Salted Earth.

If you just want an increase to our sustain that would be more useful in dungeons than in raids or, more concretely, scales with AoE... then attaching healing to Edge/Flood can provide that lever without any of the constraints of a static ground effect.
Specifically want that heal to take place over time? Still, you can have any spender than can scale with AoE provide that healing and just make that attached healing a brief HoT while allowing multiple instances of that HoT to apply simultaneously (possibly even without a declared/discrete buff).

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引用元：RyuDragnier

I'd prefer for TBN to have no MP cost and be on a 25s cooldown. Make it so if the shield doesn't break, the remaining HP of the shield is thrown back into your health pool, and if it does break, you get a regen.

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I have to disagree. The shorter/flex-CD via that MP cost accomplishes, to imo a net improvement, at least three things:

• It essentially allows TBN's total free sustain per minute to scale with incoming threat in a way that would otherwise be impossible for a purely flat mitigation tool. That's also a decent bit iconic for a DRK.
• That, in turn, allows TBN to provide a unique profile and unique feel to DRK's on-demand defensive kit, along with certain unique advantages, including the ability to pre-cast while still getting, if used skillfully, full value out of the tool.
• Those features then allow DRK a greater degree of risk-and-reward, something I would think we would want to maximize up to at least a reasonable threshold, not minimize, on a Dark Knight.

What DRK lack :

• No synergy between job action, almost everything is disjointed.

• No job evolution, DRK form lower level to max level just play the same.

• Button Bloat, there are action that divided to single target and aoe for no reason

What I would do :

• I would address the easiest problem first by merging the Edge&Flood into

Somethingbringer Ability Ogcd Attack Range 10y Radius 10y
Deals unaspected damage to all enemies in a straight line before you with a potency of ??? for the first enemy, and 60% less for all remaining enemies.

Cost ????MP Increase Blood Gauge by??

• Then I would Make Blood Weapon consume the Blood gauge

Blood Weapon Toggle Ability
Grants the effect of Blood Weapon,reduces weaponskill cast time and recast time, spell cast time and recast time, and auto-attack delay by ??% at the cost of ?? Blood Gauge upon landing weaponskill or spell. Effect fades and cannot be used without a sufficient Blood Gauge.
Recast 5s.

• Blood gauge that doesn't decrease on it own unless it get consume by landing the attack, in this way player won't be hard pressed to always play with a fast gcd speed, thus have more control over the pace.

• With Blood Weapon no longer a resource generator we would need another source of mp and another source of for our second gauge and since DRK is lacking a variety of gcd attack I would make

Abyssal Drain Weaponskill Gcd Attack Range 25y Radius 5y
Deals unaspected damage to target and all enemies nearby it with a potency of ??? for the first enemy, and 50% less for all remaining enemies.
Additionale Effect : Restore ???MP

Additional Effect : Grant ? stack of Abyss

Recast 30s. Max Charge : 2

• Bloodspiller and Quietus is uninteresting and having these 2 action seperated from each other just contributed to a problem of button bloat so I would merge them and make new action that consume Abyss stack like...

Darkpassenger Weaponskill Gcd Attack Range 10y Radius 10y
Deals unaspected damage to all enemies in a straight line before you with a potency of ??? for the first enemy, and 60% less for all remaining enemies.
Cost : 1 Abyss stack.
Additional Effect : Increase Dark Gauge

• Salted Earth is another action that caused an over weaving problem and it doesn't connect to other action so I would like to make a gcd instead as well as provide a significant heal at least in dungeon. With new targeting system don't seem to have a problem with a pool aoe now so I would like to change it to be able to place it around the target instead of limit the range to around the player. Here is what I envision :

Salted Earth Weaponskill Gcd Attack Range 25y Radius 5y
Creates a patch of salted earth around the target, dealing unaspected damage with a potency of 60 to any enemies who enter.

Additional Effect : Absorbs 100% of damage dealt as HP
Duration: 15s Recast 30s.

• Living Shadow pack a lot potency for no reason but wasn't able to make the player base feel like it deliver an impact because it's own subtle way to deal damage meanwhile Salt and Darkness seem like an action that serve as a finisher but due to an attack potency that failed to reach the level of the proper finisher it remain an another mediocre attack in DRK tool kit. I would like to make this a real finisher that connect with Darkpassenger by remove the Living Shadow and allocated the attack potency to other action such as Salt and Darkness

Salt and Darkness Ability Ogcd Attack Range 0y Radius 5y
All enemies standing in the corrupted patch of Salted Earth take additional unaspected damage with a potency of ??? for the first enemy, and 60% less for all remaining enemies.
Maximum potency increase as Dark Gauge increase.
Consume all Dark Gauge upon execution.

• Now I think DRK action would more or less regain some synergy

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Other issue we talked a lot about DRK is the TBN and the defensive actions. DRK lose physical damage mitigation when Developer took Dark Dance and give it to GNB, result in a situation that DRK no longer have extra mitigate for a physical damage before they able to reach 2 expansions later to acquire "The Blackest Night" action. Needless to say there are a lot of fight that full of physical damage that the DRK player have to go through before reach that point in the story and we would have to suffer again should we partake in the fight that TBN action isn't available!!! thus I would like to make such a change :

• Bring back Shadowskin and make it replace Dark Mind

• Make Shadowskin upgrade to The Blackest Night when the action is available
• Make TBN 25s. recast and make don't consume MP.
• Then Make The Blackest Night gain physical mitigation effect as an upgrade at later level
• Change Oblation action into a heal that require mp cost.
• And make Obalation consume Dark Art instead of MP that the DRK received from when TBN completely absorbed an attack
• In this way player that want the significant of breaking the TBN and player who doesn't want to lose DPS when it doesn't break would be able to more or less able to compromise.
• This is what the description of these action would look like:

Shadow Skin
Reduces damage taken by 15%.
Duration 20s. Recast time 90s.




The Blackest Night
Creates a barrier around self or target party member that absorbs damage totaling 25% of target's maximum HP.
Grants Dark Arts when barrier is completely absorbed.
Dark Arts Effect: Consume Dark Arts instead of MP to execute Oblation

[[Upgrade] Additional Effect : Reduces damage taken by a party member or self by 10%.]




Oblation
Restore target HP. Cure Potency 1200. Cost : ????mp

• With this there would be at least an evolution/upgrade and synergy in defensive actions of DRK

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引用元：The_User

big snippery

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We can almost all agree that there's no real synergy in the kit, however...

1) The issue isn't button bloat, it's an oGCD bloat during our big bursts..all the while there is zero interaction within the kit outside of DA granting a free flood/edge. However, if they do absolutely nothing there WILL be button bloat come next expansion.

I do believe there could be actions combined and given a new animation for said ability, though.

merging Edge/Flood gives us even less abilities that use mana and still doesn't solve the issue of oGCD bloat into one single window. I'd like to keep a single-target and aoe variant, but if they combine them...a conal aoe, please.

2a) I don't believe your Blood Weapon suggestion would actually work well in practice, but I can see what you're going for.

As for Abyssal Drain granting mp, unless it gives us 1.5k per charge (or they massively buff our mp generation), it will NOT be more useful than just having Blood Weapon give us both mp and blood gauge. Furthermore, they would have to skyrocket our blood gauge generation to make up for it. I would rather Blood Weapon just gives the haste it gave when using it before 5.0.

It would be cool to see them merge Carve and Spit and Abyssal Drain into something we use every 60s though. Some heavy-hitting ability with a 3000mp cost.

MP expenditure could be thus:

• Shadowbringer on a one-charge system
• Carve and Spit/Abyssal Drain merge suggestion as stated above
• Edge/Flood
• The Blackest Night

2b) Bloodspiller and Quietus are only uninteresting because we spam it so much.

You mention Salted Earth being a root cause of causing an overweaving issue along with Salt and Darkness feeling like it's meant to be a finisher, but falling flat because of potency, which is not the case.

• Your idea for Salted Earth doesn't change anything because it doesn't solve the issue of the boss moving outside of the puddle. Salted Earth should have some other interaction and stay. That, or just bring Scourge back as a GCD, replacing Salted Earth and Salt and Darkness and make it an aoe DoT we use every 30s that costs 20 Blood gauge. It would kill not two, not three, but FOUR birds in one stone.
  1. oGCD bloat reduction
  2. Blood Gauge having more meaningful usage since we would need to ensure we have 20 gauge for an important ability
  3. Adds a GCD for a much needed change of pace
  4. even if slight, more interesting downtime
• Salt and Darkness is a mediocre ability with a mediocre animation that only serves as yet another oGCD that feels slapped on to DRK's kit, which DOES cause an over-weaving issue. Nothing about it feels like a finisher.
• Bloodspiller feels much more like it should be a finisher given it's animation, we just got bored of it because of how often we use it. If they're gonna give us any aoe finisher combo, make something of Bloodspiller and either remove Quietus or use it in some form during the combo.
• I criticize Living Shadow a lot now for reasons beaten to death, but to safe..It is just a press and forget overglorified DoT, and I still hold that opinion. However...between LS and S&D, Living Shadow at least holds some identity lorewise.

3) DRK is fantastic defensively, it doesn't need another physical damage mit because of TBN.

• I get why people are suggesting Oblation merging with Dark Mind, it's to reduce button bloat, but it makes far more sense to merge it as an evolution for TBN, as I've stated numerous times. Oblation already feels like it's meant to weaved with TBN. The HP gains we get from power creep has far more to do with TBN not popping than a mere 10% mit does. You even suggested to give TBN more mitigation later on. Dark Mind is incredibly powerful where applicable, and DRK has been known for being the most magic defensive tank, and that's some semblance of whatever identity is left I'd like to keep.
• Bringing Shadowskin back as a low level TBN IS, however, a good change I've suggested as well. The upgrade path should be Shadowskin->The Blackest Night->Oblation.
• It doesn't make sense to make oblation a 1,200 potency heal, the animation itself implies it's a dark barrier protecting you. Moving the mp to that isn't something they would do either, because it would be 3k that could've been used on edge/flood.
• To give DRK some sustain to help it where needed, again, just revamp Blood Price into something that pools damage taken up to a certain heal potency and when it reaches that potency, it heals you for that amount. It would also heal you for whatever WAS pooled at the end of the duration if that condition was not met.

edit: After re-reading a few times, I thought of an issue some people may find with a suggestion i listed above, particularly Scourge returning as a 30s Dot costing 20 gauge. Which may bring up the question of "But we need 50 gauge for Living Shadow in our opener"

Some solutions would be:

• Make it free to use (the least interesting, but simple, option)
• Make Blood Weapon immediately grant 50 blood gauge on top of it already generating gauge
• Make Delirium immediately give 50 Blood Gauge on top of granting the hypothetical Bloodspiller combo for free

If it isn't now it is going to be problem soon. Right now you have Flood/Edge taking 2 hot bar and produce no synergy. Same with Bloodspiller and Quietus. If you don't merge it now the next expansion you would have too anyway.


And for Abyssal Drain it doesn't give a blood gauge it only restore mp and give a stack of abyss which is a bullet for darkpassenger.
However if this version of Abyssal Drain does restore mp too fast then there is an alternate it could be like :
Upon landing Abyssal Drain restore 600 mp and grant a buff which make the next 4 gcd restore 600 mp upon landing but I prefer 1 hit and the job done if possible since I don't want to experience the nuisance when the target just decide to jump or teleport/became untargetable before I could land all the hit.


If you want to convince all the DRK main to not turn tbn to 25s and no mp cost then be my guest. I won't engage in that topic and I can't be convinced otherwise.

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引用元：The_User

If it isn't now it is going to be problem soon. Right now you have Flood/Edge taking 2 hot bar and produce no synergy. Same with Bloodspiller and Quietus. If you don't merge it now the next expansion you would have too anyway.

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Yes, as I already stated it would be a problem in 7.0 if they don't do anything about it. Edge/Flood's interaction lies within DA procs, and that requires TBN to pop, which...isn't much. It's there, though.

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引用元：The_User

And for Abyssal Drain it doesn't give a blood gauge it only restore mp and give a stack of abyss which is a bullet for darkpassenger.
However if this version of Abyssal Drain does restore mp too fast then there is an alternate it could be like :
Upon landing Abyssal Drain restore 600 mp and grant a buff which make the next 4 gcd restore 600 mp upon landing but I prefer 1 hit and the job done if possible since I don't want to experience the nuisance when the target just decide to jump or teleport/became untargetable before I could land all the hit.

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MP gain being too fast wouldn't be the problem here; Shadowbringer is essentially the spiritual successor to Dark Passenger. Again, this may sound good on paper but it likely wouldn't be received well in practice. Bosses becoming untargeteable is a fight to fight basis and falls upon the player(s) to plan around that (not that it's always well timed given the 2-minute burst meta..).

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引用元：The_User

If you want to convince all the DRK main to not turn tbn to 25s and no mp cost then be my guest. I won't engage in that topic and I can't be convinced otherwise.

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It is quite literally a nerf to DRK's defense, the same exact thing you claimed to wanted to remedy the lack thereof because of the removal of DRK dance. This is also without mentioning you wanted to make Oblation have an MP cost. so, if DA didn't break, you would still lose out on dps if the shield didn't break. TBN is fine as is.