If you are a WHM without Swiftcast, you are holding back your team at endgame

At the end of the day, even those defending not getting it know they should get it.

Either used as an emergency rez, a straight-up increase in HPS, the ability to make a cast uninterruptible or even for an increase in DPS or more rapid crowd-control the ability is one of the most useful in the game.

FCs/Statics/PUGs that require it (they aren't demanding it, you're perfectly free to not get it, just as they are free to not keep you in group) make similar demands for other jobs. WARs should have voke. BRDs should have invigorate/blood for blood. Black Mages should have Virus etc etc. All these abilities are required and you will be expected to level the relevant classes by any decent end-game group and none of them are as useful as Swiftcast.

Feel indignant that lowly melee are asking you to level another class if you want, but for heaven's sake, level the gorramn class.

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Originally Posted by Gardes

I wish people like these were around when I was playing ffxi. No need to lvl up my ninja sub. No need to break all my beastmen seals to try for an utsusemi ni scroll and then not having it drop at all and having to spend loads to buy the scroll instead. Because they will tell me it'll be okay.

It'll be okay.

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This made me chuckle. :D

Anyways, I enjoy reading the responses from these healers who suggest that everyone needs to be perfect. It's like watching a college student learn about theoretical situations (where you often assume ideal conditions) and then get out into the real world where the theoretical situation occurs 0.0000001% of the time.

I admire this type of attitude. I can't wait till you start getting into content where a swiftcast raise would have made all the difference in the world. Or, even, a swiftcast medica/succor. Or cure 3. Or a swiftcast + summon pet. Ah they'll learn eventually once they join the real world and come down from their lofty perches in the land of perfection.

Besides, on my SCH, I often am swiftcast ressing other healers quite frequently. I wonder how many of them don't have swiftcast themselves.

There's a difference between 'should' get it, and 'you are holding your team back if you dont get it'.

Or as you put it:

level the gorramn class.

That phrase just invites the following:

"Feel indignant that lowly healers and tanks are asking you to watch the floor if you want, but for heaven's sake, dodge the friggin fire"

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Originally Posted by Hitome

I admire this type of attitude. I can't wait till you start getting into content where a swiftcast raise would have made all the difference in the world. Or, even, a swiftcast medica/succor. Or cure 3. Or a swiftcast + summon pet. Ah they'll learn eventually once they join the real world and come down from their lofty perches in the land of perfection.

Besides, on my SCH, I often am swiftcast ressing other healers quite frequently. I wonder how many of them don't have swiftcast themselves.

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It's one thing to suggest, it's another to flat out insult. Sorry that people get defensive when you attack them. Hey! They're tanks in disguise!

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Originally Posted by KHShadowrunner

There's a difference between 'should' get it, and 'you are holding your team back if you dont get it'.

Or as you put it:

level the gorramn class.

That phrase just invites the following:

"Feel indignant that lowly healers and tanks are asking you to watch the floor if you want, but for heaven's sake, dodge the friggin fire"

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And you would presumably agree that someone standing in fire is holding their team back in endgame?

It seems we are on the same page. If a healer or a tank dies you could fail to raise them because you don't have swiftcast and wipe; basking in the knowledge that it wasn't your fault. Alternatively you could raise them instantly and recover and win. Should they have died? Probably not. Should you have the ability to get them back on their feet as quickly as possible? Yes.

Cases like this happen. People die to avoidable stuff. Refusing to raise someone who did is like refusing to cure someone who got hit by something avoidable. Your job is keeping people alive and bringing back those that die. Anything that helps you to do that is required of you. Honestly, any self-respecting healer should be absolutely salivating at the chance to get a tool that increases their ability to do their job to the best it can be done.

Don't die. If u r dying in any end game content. Someone is doing something wrong.

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Originally Posted by Aegis

Cases like this happen. People die to avoidable stuff. Refusing to raise someone who did is like refusing to cure someone who got hit by something avoidable. Your job is keeping people alive and bringing back those that die. Anything that helps you to do that is required of you. Honestly, any self-respecting healer should be absolutely salivating at the chance to get a tool that increases their ability to do their job to the best it can be done.

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See, having now leveled a DD (BLM), Tank (PLD), and Healer (WHM), I've found those 'cases' to be less and less frequent. The higher up in content you go, the more often being raised is just a faster ticket to more repairs, and wasted MP. I mean, as others have said, if you die in titan it's 90% of the time over, especially before heart. In KB, the guaranteed tick damage has put more people at double digit numbers before the first heal, just silly. This goes for other fights as well, Hydra seems to like to randomly put DPS down after they've been raised. We had a good laugh at a healer during an ifrit run whom was swiftcast + raised -7- times before we won. But would I say that all those raises were for victory? not really.

To answer the first question, I would say no. I would say that the mechanics can be hard, but they can be beaten, practice hard and you'll get it. I wouldn't outright tell them 'Sorry JimBo, You're not doing your job and you are failing everyone as a whole'.

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Originally Posted by wildgalax

pretty selfish to tell someone to not play since you dont like the way someone chooses to experience the game. Also your analogy is pretty pathetic, a healer is not going to stop being a healer/support just cause they choose not to get swiftcast or do some dps or w/e other reason. But nice try.

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I used an analogy to make the point that you can't just play how you want in a co-op game. That was the point I was contesting, nice strawman though.

If you seriously think being a team player is selfish then I honestly don't know what to say to you, you really should spend time reading a dictionary so you know what words mean.

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Originally Posted by KHShadowrunner

See, having now leveled a DD (BLM), Tank (PLD), and Healer (WHM), I've found those 'cases' to be less and less frequent. The higher up in content you go, the more often being raised is just a faster ticket to more repairs, and wasted MP. I mean, as others have said, if you die in titan it's 90% of the time over, especially before heart. In KB, the guaranteed tick damage has put more people at double digit numbers before the first heal, just silly. This goes for other fights as well, Hydra seems to like to randomly put DPS down after they've been raised. We had a good laugh at a healer during an ifrit run whom was swiftcast + raised -7- times before we won. But would I say that all those raises were for victory? not really.

To answer the first question, I would say no. I would say that the mechanics can be hard, but they can be beaten, practice hard and you'll get it. I wouldn't outright tell them 'Sorry JimBo, You're not doing your job and you are failing everyone as a whole'.

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Actually, I do Titan donation runs and people dying before Heart (while it rarely occurs, everyone knows the fight backwards and forwards, but everyone gets the occasional lag spike) doesn't have any noticable impact to us. Insta rez whenever, accept rez as soon as plumes appear on the ground. You always have 3-4 GCDs (depending on phase) before stomps. More than enough time to get them sorted.

And that's the difference: No swiftcast (In your own words) If you die in Titan 90% of the time it's over. With swiftcast, it's a minor inconvenience.

Yes, KB has unavoidable AOE floor damage, but hard raise followed by insta-cast cure 2 and they're fine (especially with 5s invulnerability now) or insta cast raise followed by other healer insta casting Cure 2 and you're good again.

Honestly, I don't think I could think up better examples of how SC is useful than those you posited about how it isn't.

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Originally Posted by KHShadowrunner

I wouldn't outright tell them 'Sorry JimBo, You're not doing your job and you are failing everyone as a whole'.

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What if they refuse to move out of fire, as long as it doesn't one-shot them they can say "I'm doing DPS, that's my job. Moving out of fire lowers my DPS. Healer's job is to heal me"

It may not seem it to you, but the argument that you shouldn't do something because it's somebody else's role to make it so that you don't need to do it is the same across both scenarios. Now, the DPS is of course being more unreasonable, but it's only a matter of degree.

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Originally Posted by Artemiz

I used an analogy to make the point that you can't just play how you want in a co-op game. That was the point I was contesting, nice strawman though.

If you seriously think being a team player is selfish then I honestly don't know what to say to you, you really should spend time reading a dictionary so you know what words mean.

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I dont know what world you live in but someone coming with all their cross class skills is not going to make me think they are a team player. For me its more the attitude they bring and how well they can sync with everyone, and a lot more i dont think you would understand anyway. And nice 1 dimensional thinking and poor logic to think 1 variable illustrates the whole picture, maybe you should go back to school.

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Originally Posted by Aegis

Actually, I do Titan donation runs and people dying before Heart (while it rarely occurs, everyone knows the fight backwards and forwards, but everyone gets the occasional lag spike) doesn't have any noticable impact to us. Insta rez whenever, accept rez as soon as plumes appear on the ground. You always have 3-4 GCDs (depending on phase) before stomps. More than enough time to get them sorted.

And that's the difference: No swiftcast (In your own words) If you die in Titan 90% of the time it's over. With swiftcast, it's a minor inconvenience.

Yes, KB has unavoidable AOE floor damage, but hard raise followed by insta-cast cure 2 and they're fine (especially with 5s invulnerability now) or insta cast raise followed by other healer insta casting Cure 2 and you're good again.

Honestly, I don't think I could think up better examples of how SC is useful than those you posited about how it isn't.

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I don't follow, you just said that someone dying doesn't have any noticiable impact to you, as such having that person there or not is insignificant, the only difference between alive and dead then is the use of a costly spell and the MP cost to get them up

In example two, you just outlined that you had to use the wonderful spell TWICE in order to save the comrade, but does not pose the significance of doing this. Did they then march right into combat? or sort of huddle out of sight/mind so as not to die again?

Hard Rez + insta cure is a recipe for healing yourself :), but that's another argument. If you could hard rez a person, surely you could hard cast Cure, or Cure II, and save Swiftcast for .. i dunno holy?

Both examples are situations where it is a luxury to raise someone, and does not 'let the team down' by not having it. 90% of the people agree that regardless of alive/dead, if you die before the heart phase, it's pretty much a wipe (which is silly, I agree, but mindset says).

I just personally find that being dead (or alive and weakened) to be much more crippling than not having swiftcast, and that no one should be told that they are letting the team down, but that they can more easily benefit from the skill and practice.

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Originally Posted by wildgalax

I dont know what world you live in but someone coming with all their cross class skills is not going to make me think they are a team player. For me its more the attitude they bring and how well they can sync with everyone, and a lot more i dont think you would understand anyway.

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Lmao keep trying to patronise me bro, you're the one who thinks lack of prepardness, arrogance and lazyness are not signs of a bad team player, because that's what you're defending in this thread. No seriously keep going, you're really good at this :)

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Originally Posted by KHShadowrunner

I don't follow, you just said that someone dying doesn't have any noticiable impact to you, as such having that person there or not is insignificant, the only difference between alive and dead then is the use of a costly spell and the MP cost to get them up

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Sorry if it wasn't clear; a person dying has no noticable impact, a person remaining dead can scupper a run.

It's not noticable because we can get them back on their feet easily and keep them there. A healer without swiftcast has to spend a significant amount of time not healing the tank to do this, with a well co-ordinated team, this is recoverable too (though I don't know at what point a healer should start casting raise without swiftcast to be guaranteed not to have to move and interrupt it. To be frank, I've never needed to know) through use of tank CDs and cure II/medica spam by the non-rezzing healer, but it's not as easy.

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Originally Posted by Artemiz

Lmao keep trying to patronise me bro, you're the one who thinks lack of prepardness, arrogance and lazyness are not signs of a bad team player, because that's what you're defending in this thread. No seriously keep going, you're really good at this :)

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Alright continue to see things how you want to, cant help that. I see logic and reading aernt your strong points.

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Originally Posted by Aegis

Sorry if it wasn't clear; a person dying has no noticable impact, a person remaining dead can scupper a run.

It's not noticable because we can get them back on their feet easily and keep them there. A healer without swiftcast has to spend a significant amount of time not healing the tank to do this, with a well co-ordinated team, this is recoverable too (though I don't know at what point a healer should start casting raise without swiftcast to be guaranteed not to have to move and interrupt it. To be frank, I've never needed to know) through use of tank CDs and cure II/medica spam by the non-rezzing healer, but it's not as easy.

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Agreed, the time is pre-emptively knowing what attack is next and when to cast it ( hardcast raise right after you've moved out of plumes and from a position that you know the bombs wont hit you, move if landslide makes you loller). The argument is that it is not required, it does not 'let the team down' any more than being dead in the first place does (it's just a different strategy)

Anything gained is useful, except a debuff lol. No arguing that. Just the way to deliver a message could be much more... rewarding.

Also - I like how quotation counts towards the character limit, but only if you actually enter a character first, otherwise your response is less than 10 characters.

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Originally Posted by KHShadowrunner

Agreed, the time is pre-emptively knowing what attack is next and when to cast it ( hardcast raise right after you've moved out of plumes and from a position that you know the bombs wont hit you, move if landslide makes you loller). The argument is that it is not required, it does not 'let the team down' any more than being dead in the first place does (it's just a different strategy).

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Landslide is the problem. I'm not sure there's a time when you can guarantee not to be hit by it while raising. And if you have to move then you are doubling the time it takes to raise that person thereby doubling the time the rest of the party is going without heals.

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Originally Posted by KHShadowrunner

Anything gained is useful, except a debuff lol. No arguing that. Just the way to deliver a message could be much more... rewarding.

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Like I said earlier; feel free to be upset by the way the message was put, but don't let that stop you actually getting the ability. It's one of the most useful abilities in the game. It can be used variously to insta cast pets, insta raise, insta CC, increase in HPS and increase in DPS. The point should be made forcefully because ignoring this ability, which takes at most an afternoon or two to get, should not be accepted by the wider healing community.

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Originally Posted by Shizato

useful =/= required... no one is arguing that it is not useful, they are pointing out that its not required by healers at any point in the game

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Depends on how you define "required." I prefer casters w/ Swiftcast to those without and will pick the former for parties over the latter. So I guess no, it is not required. Unless getting into parties is important to you.

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Originally Posted by Aegis

Landslide is the problem. I'm not sure there's a time when you can guarantee not to be hit by it while raising. And if you have to move then you are doubling the time it takes to raise that person thereby doubling the time the rest of the party is going without heals.

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If you have to move for landslide, you plan your raise accordingly. No one should be taking damage from plumes or landslide (or bombs), if they are, wasting MP on raise is already a bad idea, and that swift cast can instead be used for the needed Medica II/Medica/Succor come time for the stompies. All about planning (I mean, you have to do it already, if you've already used swiftcast and a person dies. Swiftcast is fantastic, but having to wait that extra minute might mean the end if you rely on it)

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Like I said earlier; feel free to be upset by the way the message was put, but don't let that stop you actually getting the ability. It's one of the most useful abilities in the game. It can be used variously to insta cast pets, insta raise, insta CC, increase in HPS and increase in DPS. The point should be made forcefully because ignoring this ability, which takes at most an afternoon or two to get, should not be accepted by the wider healing community.

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Agreed, just comes back to why some are defending it. (for some it will take considerable investment, not one or two afternoons, but that depends on the person). Forcefully is even ok, but demeaning someone and insulting them because they dont? Far from what is needed in a community.

What I mean is - if you literally took your one line, and replaced the title with 'White Mages/Scholars, Swiftcast is beyond useful' and the body said 'It's one of the most useful abilities in the game. It can be used variously to insta cast pets, insta raise, insta CC, increase in HPS and increase in DPS.' followed by some helpful tidbit, I'd bet a dollar that this entire thread would have gone completely different.

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Originally Posted by Purrfectstorm

Depends on how you define "required." I prefer casters w/ Swiftcast to those without and will pick the former for parties over the latter. So I guess no, it is not required. Unless getting into parties is important to you.

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Ive seen parties crumble even with what they term the best party makeup, gear, skills, food, etc. So with more people with that thinking it doesn't surprise me.

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Originally Posted by KHShadowrunner

If you have to move for landslide, you plan your raise accordingly. No one should be taking damage from plumes or landslide (or bombs), if they are, wasting MP on raise is already a bad idea, and that swift cast can instead be used for the needed Medica II/Medica/Succor come time for the stompies. All about planning (I mean, you have to do it already, if you've already used swiftcast and a person dies. Swiftcast is fantastic, but having to wait that extra minute might mean the end if you rely on it)

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The tank will always be taking damage. Table flip in particular must be healed immediately after. But what if the dead person is the other healer? Solo healing through phase 5 stomps and keeping tank alive is extremely difficult unless you are very overgeared. Getting the other healer up is the difference between wipe and win. There is no moment in phase 5 where it is safe to hardcast raise.

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Originally Posted by KHShadowrunner

Agreed, just comes back to why some are defending it. (for some it will take considerable investment, not one or two afternoons, but that depends on the person). Forcefully is even ok, but demeaning someone and insulting them because they dont? Far from what is needed in a community.

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The problem is, people in here are getting defensive about it to the extent that they are saying it's not required, that it's a luxury. New healers wanting to do well could very well read the thread and come to the conclusion that they shouldn't be expected to get the ability. It's a luxury in the same way Provoke is a luxury: technically you can do your job without it, but damn if you aren't making your life and your parties' lives that much harder..

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Originally Posted by KHShadowrunner

What I mean is - if you literally took your one line, and replaced the title with 'White Mages/Scholars, Swiftcast is beyond useful' and the body said 'It's one of the most useful abilities in the game. It can be used variously to insta cast pets, insta raise, insta CC, increase in HPS and increase in DPS.' followed by some helpful tidbit, I'd bet a dollar that this entire thread would have gone completely different.

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That's because I'm awesome.

The very best cross class spell/skill in the game, I'm very sure you need to get it if you are a healer. Many of you think it is for swiftcast raise, but that is far from the whole picture.

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Originally Posted by wildgalax

Ive seen parties crumble even with what they term the best party makeup, gear, skills, food, etc. So with more people with that thinking it doesn't surprise me.

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This is poor logic. Just because bad things happen when you give yourself the best chances, doesn't mean you stop giving yourself the best chances. If Swiftcast is useful a non-zero amount of the time (and we can all agree on at least that much right), then why would you choose not to get it? That 1% difference may not seem like much to you (and if you think it's ONLY 1% then you clearly haven't ever actually used Swiftcast) but how can you deny that if you're in that unlikely scenario and don't have Swiftcast that you didn't hold your team back?

I prefer not to be held back even 1% of the time. I prefer to play my classes to their full potential. To me the attitude of "I'm going to do the bare minimum" is more harmful than not having Swiftcast. Players without this attitude get Swiftcast. Arguments about this not being a job and about how this is just a game are not relevant. You care. I care. If we didn't care, we wouldn't be posting. Something doesn't have to be your job for you to want to work hard to do your best at it. Besides, in the game world, healing IS your JOB. And calling someone an elitist is just ad hominem arguing. I can totally get that some people in this thread are coming off as elitists but it doesn't make them wrong. Certainly people should understand that even if getting Swiftcast is a time sink they don't want to bother with (Of what a few hours? In the long run they'll save more than that) that losing fights you should win because the healer doesn't have Swiftcast (yes it does happen) wastes time as well.

The difference is that the time you spend to get Swiftcast is a one-time payment vs. the days/months/years your group is losing time because you don't have key skills. It's not just about Swiftcast + rez as many have noted either. Swiftcast makes all your spells better. But on the subject of rezzing, anyone who thinks that they can rez someone just as easily without Swiftcast is blatantly lying to themselves and/or never fought any of the HM Primals or beyond. You generally don't have time. You either have to move to avoid attacks or you stand there not healing the rest of your group for several seconds.

Lastly, getting dead players back into a fight (i.e. players now contributing nothing) weakened or not, makes a huge difference. The whole argument that if they had played perfectly, they wouldn't BE dead, falls flat, because nobody can play perfectly all the time. However, everyone doesn't have to be perfect to win a fight and you shouldn't limit your groups successes to only those times where everyone does play perfectly.

What it all boils down to is this simple logic: You can win more with Swiftcast. Does anyone want to win less?!

A warrior is not going to stop being a tank just cause they choose not to get provoke.

It's the other tank's fault if they cant suddenly drop their threat to pass the boss on to the warrior on tank swap mechanics.

:^)

If you need Swiftcast>Raise to win instances you need to L2P. Eighter that or the DF pugs on your server is terrible.

But yes, it is indeed good if people are as good as possible, but it is not in anyway as needed as you claim.

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Originally Posted by Gardes

A warrior is not going to stop being a tank just cause they choose not to get provoke.

It's the other tank's fault if they cant suddenly drop their threat to pass the boss on to the warrior on tank swap mechanics.

:^)

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Oh yes, they are useless tanks if they don't have Provoke. Ever heard of Garuda EM, ADS & Twintania?

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Originally Posted by Slambo

If I'm casting raise YOU are doing it wrong. you show me a fight with a guaranteed 1 shot to someone (every time) and I'll agree with you though.

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This is the truth.

Having swiftcast if good though, like having Provoke on the Warrior. Although Provoke is a little different...

The thing is, are the end-game fights designed around having cross class skills?

Yes: then all healers should get swiftcast, all tanks should get provoke, all whatever should get whatever...

No: then obviously no.

I remember Yoshi-P did say something about this, although I forgot whether his answer was yes or no. :(

Still. One should be chewing on those who keep dying, not chewing on the healers who are already doing their best to keep everybody alive.

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Originally Posted by Lunavi

If you need Swiftcast>Raise to win instances you need to L2P. Eighter that or the DF pugs on your server is terrible.

But yes, it is indeed good if people are as good as possible, but it is not in anyway as needed as you claim.

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What? Why would someone need to L2P if they use swiftcast raise? Shouldn't the person who died be told that? What if a healer was hit by a spike of lag even though they have never had lag before and have done the run without getting hit dozens of times (has happened in our FC). Should they learn to play?

What if another group in your CT alliance pulled two skellies to the same spoke on Bone Dragon and the ensuing unavoidable AOE took out your BLM. Should he learn to play? There's nothing he, or your entire party could have done to prevent it.

Shit happens all the time. Refusing to deal with it is just being... weird.

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Originally Posted by Purrfectstorm

This is poor logic. ?!

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I dont feel you need to play perfect, you just have to have a certain degree of mastering the content, no amounts of reses will help. However through practice and repetition you will master the fight, and it will become easy. Swiftcast is not going to solve these kind of problems, even if it does and you end up winning you are just winning the battle not the war. If my group wipes it doesnt bother me cause i see a mistake and i know that team can down the content the next try. And my previous post was how people would rather someone with high gear, and cross class over someone who can play their job better. Cause i guess all the content is a gear, and skill check that is all.

i think swift cast is a nice feature for whitemage, but i don't think it's just for raise. in genral it's handy in dungengs when if either ur lag a little or come late to a lure to make sure noone dies and speed up the heals.

but in 8 man party its not essential to have it. people who die in titan are usually just not used to the fight or such , all titan moves are avoidable except those stombs. and in general if ur not well geared then its hard to survive in phase 5 while weakened. in other fights u can have a summoner even do the raises cause whitemage's MP is more precius.

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Originally Posted by wildgalax

Alright continue to see things how you want to, cant help that. I see logic and reading aernt your strong points.

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Well I don't see the logic or reasoning in not getting an ability that makes you better at your job, and that makes the job easier/more efficient. Especially when it's so easy to get and doesn't really take that long in MMO terms. I see these defences in this thread,

I shouldn't have to
I don't need it
DD's are just bad, L2P

I don't agree with any of those reasons. The truth is Swiftcast is easy to get and very useful and there is no good reason to not get it.

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Originally Posted by Slambo

If I'm casting raise YOU are doing it wrong. you show me a fight with a guaranteed 1 shot to someone (every time) and I'll agree with you though.

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What this guy said.

I got Swiftcast, but I started doing coil before I had it. It didn't hold my team back; we did just fine. It's a great skill to have, but it's not mandatory.

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Originally Posted by Jyoeru

Like I said, I am only level 24 MRD right now. We shall see. I have flash. I just rarely have to use it. That could be a lower level thing. But, just to prove a point, I am going to avoid using it as much as possible to see if I can tank fine using just my skillset. It's something I do. If I am wrong, I will use the X-class skills.

And if you don't need to use everything to do the job, then don't? I mean, that's part of doing it right. Save that TP for the moments you need it.

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This thread is getting pretty hilarious.

And while you are at it, please be sure never to get Provoke, or if you obtained it in a moment of weakness please remove it from your skill bar.

After all, any party member who pulls a mob from you must be a poor player and probably deserves to die. And in AK you can always ask a Dragoon or Bard to pull that Succubus for you (since your Tomahawk skill won't reach), and when she gets closer you can then just grab her with Provoke.

Oh wait...

EDIT: the tone above may be a little snarky, and sorry for that. There is a legitimate debate in this thread. Some cross skills, like Provoke are essential to do a job. No serious raid group would accept in a Warrior as tank knowing he never got around to getting it. But most cross skills are more in the grey area. Swift isn't Provoke, doesn't fall into the can't-play-your-job-properly-without-it category, but it also isn't one of the many useless cross skills. It sure does make it possible to play your job more strongly. Not having it is a little like when a tank is about to die choosing to just sit there and do nothing for a full GCD before starting the Cure II induction. Sure the tank might be able to survive that if he's fast enough with an 'oh crud' skill, but what is gained by risking it? And sure a Bard can do without BfB or deciding not to pay for that relic weapon after defeating Titan HM, but why would a Bard choose to be less effective in a group than he could be?

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Originally Posted by wildgalax

Idk why you are bringing "watch a video" now, honestly whats wrong with going to a fight and trying to figure it out yourself without being spoonfed. My friend spent recently all day in titan and ifrit after countless wipes and trying to figure out the fight without guide and he said its not most fun he had in a long time. And idk with this attitude if you wipe you lose you seem to be chasing, like my friend said its part of the journey.

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Haha it's just an example of how a player could possibly avoid being hit by stuff and not need a battle res. I guess you can translate that to "intrinsically know how to dodge things by ones own non-badness" or whatever. I don't get it, so I guess people dying over and over and over again is fine as long as you don't have to bring them up? You support doing blind runs on new content but think battle res is for losers? Could you contradict yourself more?

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Originally Posted by Jyoeru

Maybe a swiftcast heal would have saved them. But then the guy next to him dies, and all the sudden you don't have a swiftcast rez.

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Uh okay, now you're making arguments for just never casting spells at all here. Not just avoiding getting them, but straight out you're crafting an argument for "well I might cast heal and the guy next to the guy I healed dies, better to have not cast heal". Also it's kind of hilarious you're advocating "You died so stay on the ground and watch and don't mess up next time" while moaning about elitists. Even super high-end raiders don't raid under the assumption of a 0% error rate.

Replying to you guys is just an exercise in hyperbole and mental gymnastics. You're arguing that an ability you both took and use is not quite as good as people think since DPS can just move out of fire. All the while you're using the same exact arguments DPS use to justify their failures. It's just amazing how hypocritical you guys are. If anyone in this game operated by your warped logic (logic which you guys don't even operate by) there would be no DPS rotations, tanks wouldn't use cross class cooldowns, dps wouldn't use cross class cooldowns, because at the end of the day this is a game and having an expectation of ANYONE is plain wrong. I'd like to thank you for providing possibly one of the most pedantic and meaningless sticking points I've seen in all my MMO history.

EDIT: I'm just repeating myself at this point, but it's just a silly and defeatist point of view to have. People should get abilities that help them to succeed. You're like a kid when asked "Did you bite Johnie?" you quickly reply "But he shoved me first!".

I didn't need swiftcast until turn 4 .. great skill I was missing out but I was still able to Whm without it ..

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Originally Posted by Zakalwe

This thread is getting pretty hilarious.

And while you are at it, please be sure never to get Provoke, or if you obtained it in a moment of weakness please remove it from your skill bar.

After all, any party member who pulls a mob from you must be a poor player and probably deserves to die. And in AK you can always ask a Dragoon or Bard to pull that Succubus for you (since your Tomahawk skill won't reach), and when she gets closer you can then just grab her with Provoke.

Oh wait...

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^This is exactly why. But whatever.

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Originally Posted by Worm

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lol.

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I think its the third time you brought up the term 'bad' after i used it, guess it left a mark on you haha. You also seem like one of those players that blames your party for everything and fails to take responsibility, wouldnt surprise me if you were one of the people that got forced to buy a titan run and as a result hold a grudge on healers for not saving the day with swiftcast. Damn those healers.

You also didnt seem to comprehend anything i said, I merely pointed out the double standards of having high expectations from a healer, whilst at the same time not doing the best from other jobs. But since your going to keep going anyway i probably should stop judging from this,
Join Date
Dec 2013
Posts
75
you should get troll of the month. bye.

I hated grinding to get it (Sorry blms- but the class is horrible boring)- but it is an essential tool.

I am annoyed by how many other healers don't have it. BTW- it is arrogant and just plain wrong to say that if someone dies it is always THEIR fault. As a healer, sometimes it is YOUR fault for not healing them. Maybe mechanics took you out of range of the tank, maybe someone else in the group didn't stack to absorb damage, so someone that was playing correctly died.

You can't just blindly blame others. Get swiftcast. If nothing else, use it on that delicious bard that feeds you mps.

-PS one of the reasons I love playing a healer (besides that it is fun)... is that I don't have to deal with other lazy and entitled healers that blame everything on others.

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Originally Posted by wildgalax

I think its the third time you brought up the term 'bad' after i used it,You also didnt seem to comprehend anything i said, I merely pointed out the double standards of having high expectations from a healer, whilst at the same time not doing the best from other jobs. But since your going to keep going anyway i probably should stop judging from this,

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Haha yeah okay. Do you really think you're not coming off like the same generic over defensive healer I've seen in multiple games? There's is literally no question of whether Warrior tanks should pick up their cross class, there's literally no question of whether DPS should pick up their cross class, how is it you make a sole exception for healers?

You're not pointing out any double standard, you are making the double standard. Us bads blame the heals and should get good, but healers can skip Swiftcast and well that's quite fine we're healers after all. Man do you know how many healers I've had to treat with kid gloves in raid because they have this attitude of yours? I think I've lost count.

edit: I'm sure you have a chip on your shoulder for wrongly being called out in some Titan hardmode months ago or whatever, but man I don't know what to tell you, I've dealt with so many foot dragging healers. It's just irritating to see you advocate foot dragging on PRINCIPAL, as if healers have a greater right to drag feet than any other class.

If a dps player skips dps maximizing skills, they get screamed at.

If a tank skips tank maximizing skills- they get screamed at.

If a healer skips healing/recovery maximizing skills- They should get screamed at- stop being lazy.

screaming to another player is wrong in the first place, screaming in a game that is meant to relax is wrong on many account, it show a lack of control, control that you need when you play. I admit I dont have it yet, I will have to bring that up...I dont believe it hinder the group, end game we are two, one or the other has it if none, well let us keep going, the one that is late, eventually will get there..and I will. Everything happens on its own time.

Mei