Tanaka or Yoshi?

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

Assuming where? It was explicitly stated that they have a lead battle designer and that Yoshida wanted to get him to post some info for us in his next letter.

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I think your getting a bit two in-dept, my comment is about multiple vs one pieces of development at a time, and mistakes can occur through multi tasking nothing more, and that a linear approach would be better for them one thing at a time rather serving up half cooked meals everywhere.

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Originally Posted by Xmbei

What I am saying is just to do a basic attack you have to hit a key over and over again... It's annoying to perform a basica attack like that. I like the idea of different attacks to switch between, I enjoy that and I like the engaging of the XIV system... but I think I should only have to hit heavy strike/light strike/pummel and the 0 point skills 1 time and it auto attacks that move till I hit another action button and when I want to do that basic attack again I hit that key 1 time, not 5 times so I can do 5 heavy strikes or the pummels just to get attack, it is very tedious.

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So basically an auto command, it will basically spam that one attack until you cancel it. You could easily macro that and just put /wait for stamina and cool-downs consideration, though of course it wouldn't be infinite with the macro but less presses through the encounter.

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Originally Posted by Xmbei

What I am saying is just to do a basic attack you have to hit a key over and over again... It's annoying to perform a basica attack like that. I like the idea of different attacks to switch between, I enjoy that and I like the engaging of the XIV system... but I think I should only have to hit heavy strike/light strike/pummel and the 0 point skills 1 time and it auto attacks that move till I hit another action button and when I want to do that basic attack again I hit that key 1 time, not 5 times so I can do 5 heavy strikes or the pummels just to get attack, it is very tedious.

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this in itself why the auto-attack worries me. it could be done this way and could be implemented just fine, but they could just as easily remove all 0 sp abilities and only have a single basic attack. we are just having to sit and hope that the way it is implemented is enjoyable and does not take away from the gameplay.

i would rather sit and hit 1 2 3 for basic attacks than i would have things like pummel/heavy strike/fulrry removed and replaced with a single attack. that's why i say i am going to sit and wait until it gets implemented to make my final decision.

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Originally Posted by Joeking

I think your getting a bit two in-dept, my comment is about multiple vs one pieces of development at a time, and mistakes can occur through multi tasking nothing more, and that a linear approach would be better for them one thing at a time rather serving up half cooked meals everywhere.

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Your posts are very vague and your comments are a bit too far removed from what you're quoting for a connection to easily be made, besides the fact that a linear approach means exactly what the two words mean...you approach it in a line...which means absolutely nothing and leaves a lot of inference to the reader.

Different people within the FFXIV team work on different things. Therefore focusing on one area of the game to improve at a time is no different than developing all areas of the game at the same time. The only difference is the pacing of the release. That is the only thing I have been saying this entire time, please stop taking it out of context and inferring my opinion from a statement.

I am not wanting to have to macro basic attack's, I shouldn't have to do that...

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Originally Posted by Xmbei

What I am saying is just to do a basic attack you have to hit a key over and over again... It's annoying to perform a basica attack like that. I like the idea of different attacks to switch between, I enjoy that and I like the engaging of the XIV system... but I think I should only have to hit heavy strike/light strike/pummel and the 0 point skills 1 time and it auto attacks that move till I hit another action button and when I want to do that basic attack again I hit that key 1 time, not 5 times so I can do 5 heavy strikes or the pummels just to get attack, it is very tedious.

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Heavy is a skill you almost never want to hit repeatedly after you get flurry
pummel is best used sparingly when you need a lot of tp, but dont want to commit to a heavy-flurry combo
light strike is mainly used 1/10 seconds to maintain evasion up when tanking
flurry you generally would only want to do like 2 or 3 times, because you will have tp by then.

not to mention if you use feint, you could at any time decide to break any combo to get the extra damage.

Then the whole positional combat comes into play, avoiding tp moves, which require you to move in battle, or sustain damage/debuffs.

if it just toggled on it would not even make sense.

Take a look at most peoples basic playstyles and you see they generally cant afford to/or should not be spamming one button. The reason people think they have to is because they are used to basic attacks having little value, whereas in this game they are actually pretty important.

well thank you for telling me how to play... Again that is not what my point is... You can't even reability the 1 key it is set no matter what... I am stating I hate the button mashing, Also the delay in command recognition is bad... We can still have a strategic combat system. again I state I am going to wait to hear from the battle project leader and it is released before I start assuming and bashing a system yet to be implemented

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Originally Posted by Xmbei

well thank you for telling me how to play... Again that is not what my point is... You can't even reability the 1 key it is set no matter what... I am stating I hate the button mashing, Also the delay in command recognition is bad... We can still have a strategic combat system. again I state I am going to wait to hear from the battle project leader and it is released before I start assuming and bashing a system yet to be implemented

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He...just explained to you that you're not supposed to be mashing the 1 key .=.

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Originally Posted by Xmbei

well thank you for telling me how to play... Again that is not what my point is... You can't even reability the 1 key it is set no matter what... I am stating I hate the button mashing, Also the delay in command recognition is bad... We can still have a strategic combat system. again I state I am going to wait to hear from the battle project leader and it is released before I start assuming and bashing a system yet to be implemented

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No offense intended, its likely that it wont even matter in some weeks, but just to make it clear, it isnt so much using one button that you dislike, but having to press any sequence of buttons so often, You would rather only have to press buttons once in awhile, for big moves? is that basically what your saying?

Thats fine, thats just a difference of opinion then, because i would rather have more involved combat where every action serves a purpose, and i am often doing a lot of different things based on the situation. Its just a style choice difference then.

edit btw you can move the one key, you just have to swap it with a skill already on your bar. im not sure if that matters to you though, heh

Yes, thank you. Luckily I don't only just hit the 1 key but to reintiate an attack I have to hit 1 for heavy strike so I can do something else... Majority of those other 0 skill point basic attacks require you to hit the 1 key to even be able to use them, "you can only use pummel after heavy strike or pummel" "you can only use flurry after heavy strike or flurry" oh okay 1. heavy strike, pummel, than other key use up your TP, oh look I am hitting the 1 key again just to use flurry or pummel again or any other tp building move.... ah ya your right.... I don't have to use heavy strike to do something else....

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Originally Posted by Physic

No offense intended, its likely that it wont even matter in some weeks, but just to make it clear, it isnt so much using one button that you dislike, but having to press any sequence of buttons so often, You would rather only have to press buttons once in awhile, for big moves? is that basically what your saying?

Thats fine, thats just a difference of opinion then, because i would rather have more involved combat where every action serves a purpose, and i am often doing a lot of different things based on the situation. Its just a style choice difference then.

edit btw you can move the one key, you just have to swap it with a skill already on your bar. im not sure if that matters to you though, heh

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Ah thanks I actually didn't know that >.> lol I was like oh come on I want to put something else in the 1 key slot!!!!

Also yes it's a difference in opinion. I am not taking offense to it but Just me stating that I wanted auto attack because I hated having to start anything with heavy strike is tiresome and wearing out for me... and what do I get jumped on by everyone for my opinion on how I would like my basic attacks to be worked...

*edit* but yes I could say I like methodical think out in advance battle system, I also like to have the opprotunity to be able to type out commands to a party and not have to worry about "oh my character is just standing there doing nothing" when all I am trying to do is type out something really quickly...

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Originally Posted by Xmbei

Yes, thank you. Luckily I don't only just hit the 1 key but to reintiate an attack I have to hit 1 for heavy strike so I can do something else... Majority of those other 0 skill point basic attacks require you to hit the 1 key to even be able to use them, "you can only use pummel after heavy strike or pummel" "you can only use flurry after heavy strike or flurry" oh okay 1. heavy strike, pummel, than other key use up your TP, oh look I am hitting the 1 key again just to use flurry or pummel again or any other tp building move.... ah ya your right.... I don't have to use heavy strike to do something else....

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incorrect

pummel is great for building fast tp. it is its own attack and you do not hit anything to use it.

light strike is used for evasion and mob debuffs. it is its own attack and you do not hit anything to use it.

heavy strike is used to initiate flurry, but also does extra damgae over the other basic attacks. it is its own attack.

flurry is a multi shot attack that gets tp and does multiple hits at once. it does require using heavy strike once.

so of those 4 basic attacks only 1 of them has any requirement to use it. i was just trying to show each basic attack on just that one class has its own individual usage. i am not trying to jump on you so don't take me that way. i was just trying to show that they had different uses and only one of those have a requirement to use another skill previous to using it.

I'm glad we all feel similarly about the battle system, excluding Xmbei.

I hope for lots of updates and info this week. I shouldn't get my hopes too high, though.

XI's battle system was boring. XIV's promise of a more interactive (and strategic) battle is what got me and some friends interested in XIV anyway and why we quit XI. This potential move backwards ... well, means I'll lose more friends in XIV.

I can't wait for that. -_-

So to sum things up, you're mad because he's going to change a broken battle system. You don't know what it will be like (hell, nobody does) but still you keep assuming it will suck. Well I say it can't be worse than what we have now. Just give it a chance.

And yes, story driven content was voted first but as I said in my post 3 pages ago (I'm not even sure if you bothered reading it because of the length or if you just flat out ignored it) they have to work on the heart of the game before they can start working on the rest. Again, why give us stuff now that they will need to work on again after the overhaul because of the changes? Besides, they already said the first wave of combat changes would come with that Dungeon thing, which sounds like story driven content to me.

And again, I see you saying Tanaka fixed this and that in 2 months. I see you talking about his vision. As I said before (again, I'm just writing a summary), he's the one who made that mess in the first place, so his vision didn't translate into anything but a big pile of shit that cost us all 50$.

Poet nothing I thought you said was jumping on me. Though I am pretty sure I proved my point with Shai's see we all agree except the one man in the corner. When even you said you are just skeptical. Heck Wow even has an auto attack you barely even notice it because the other abilities have quicker cooldowns, and have multiple other attacks that build up tp that also dehibilitate and such, and its a "good combat system" that uses auto attack. Just because he says we are getting auto attack shai and some others automatically think it's going to be FFXI auto attack, I could be wrong and when that day of release comes and proves me wrong I will take that defeat. This isn't Tanaka's show so I highly doubt we will get a XI auto attack, since Yoshi has played numerous different mmorpgs just like I have trying to find the next game to catch my attention, the only one so far to do it is FFXIV, maybe it is because I am a fan boy and see the promise in the game, but we need to let the dev's do what they do and release info and content when it is ready. Instead of just jumping conclusions and denouncing anything new as beiing bad do to the old ways.... Give it time everyone it we will all find out soon enough.

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Originally Posted by Xmbei

Poet nothing I thought you said was jumping on me. Though I am pretty sure I proved my point with Shai's see we all agree except the one man in the corner. When even you said you are just skeptical. Heck Wow even has an auto attack you barely even notice it because the other abilities have quicker cooldowns, and have multiple other attacks that build up tp that also dehibilitate and such, and its a "good combat system" that uses auto attack. Just because he says we are getting auto attack shai and some others automatically think it's going to be FFXI auto attack, I could be wrong and when that day of release comes and proves me wrong I will take that defeat. This isn't Tanaka's show so I highly doubt we will get a XI auto attack, since Yoshi has played numerous different mmorpgs just like I have trying to find the next game to catch my attention, the only one so far to do it is FFXIV, maybe it is because I am a fan boy and see the promise in the game, but we need to let the dev's do what they do and release info and content when it is ready. Instead of just jumping conclusions and denouncing anything new as beiing bad do to the old ways.... Give it time everyone it we will all find out soon enough.

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exactly. that's why i said a while ago that even though i worry about what it will be i will wait until it comes out try it and see how well it works. it could be absolutely fantastic and very enjoyable. only time will tell.

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Originally Posted by Nilheim

So to sum things up, you're mad because he's going to change a broken battle system. You don't know what it will be like (hell, nobody does) but still you keep assuming it will suck. Well I say it can't be worse than what we have now. Just give it a chance.

And yes, story driven content was voted first but as I said in my post 3 pages ago (I'm not even sure if you bothered reading it because of the length or if you just flat out ignored it) they have to work on the heart of the game before they can start working on the rest. Again, why give us stuff now that they will need to work on again after the overhaul because of the changes? Besides, they already said the first wave of combat changes would come with that Dungeon thing, which sounds like story driven content to me.

And again, I see you saying Tanaka fixed this and that in 2 months. I see you talking about his vision. As I said before (again, I'm just writing a summary), he's the one who made that mess in the first place, so his vision didn't translate into anything but a big pile of shit that cost us all 50$.

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Some people paid closer to $80 for the collector's edition.

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

Some people paid closer to $80 for the collector's edition.

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Guilty. ;/

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Originally Posted by Kurokikaze

Guilty. ;/

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Yep. >.> Same for me, but I did it for the artwork, which also came out to be a disappointment. I thought i'd get to see many many concepts =/

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Originally Posted by Nuru

but I did it for the artwork, which also came out to be a disappointment. I thought i'd get to see many many concepts =/

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So do i.. sigh

The ones in the journal are pretty good, but its repeats the same pictures. I really love Akihiko Yoshida's artwork >.<

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

Some people paid closer to $80 for the collector's edition.

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You bought at release lol... I waited like one week after and I was able to get the normal edition online for 5 bucks... one week was long enough for the prices to drop to lower than sale bin prices.

Edit: Came with those Goggles red one, can't remember the name off the top of my head.

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Originally Posted by Joeking

You bought at release lol... I waited like one week after and I was able to get the normal edition online for 5 bucks... one week was long enough for the prices to drop to lower than sale bin prices.

Edit: Came with those Goggles red one, can't remember the name off the top of my head.

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But the first week was the best one! All the mahem. You missed out. The rest of us got our money's worth.

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Originally Posted by Joeking

You bought at release lol... I waited like one week after and I was able to get the normal edition online for 5 bucks... one week was long enough for the prices to drop to lower than sale bin prices.

Edit: Came with those Goggles red one, can't remember the name off the top of my head.

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I didn't :P I bought it 2 weeks ago, standard edition, and I bought it from BestBuy for full price to support SE.

As for Amano's artwork, it is stunning and beautiful but I don't like how he does people. They're always pale and they have pointy noses and really tiny eyes.

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

I didn't :P I bought it 2 weeks ago, standard edition, and I bought it from BestBuy for full price to support SE.

As for Amano's artwork, it is stunning and beautiful but I don't like how he does people. They're always pale and they have pointy noses and really tiny eyes.

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Did you force them to sell it to you at full price?

Edit: Those features you mentioned, *cough* Japanese.

I sense a lock incoming....

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Originally Posted by Kurokikaze

I sense a lock incoming....

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I know right...

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Originally Posted by Kurokikaze

I sense a lock incoming....

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No, not my beautiful thread!

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Originally Posted by Joeking

Did you force them to sell it to you at full price?

Edit: Those features you mentioned, *cough* Japanese.

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No, they sell it for full price normally :P I didn't have to force them.

And no, they aren't a feature of Japanese anatomy. They tend to have wider eyes and small noses (but pronounced compared to other asian races).

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

No, they sell it for full price normally :P I didn't have to force them.

And no, they aren't a feature of Japanese anatomy. They tend to have wider eyes and small noses (but pronounced compared to other asian races).

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Hmm.. I guess BestBuy isn't the BestBuy lol.

Too me it sounded Japanese, perhaps that just me.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

Yoshi is not promising much community-related content with the small exception of some instanced dungeons (which is itself a spit in the face of MMO design). Instances turn games into entrance lobbies. An MMO is supposed to be a persistent world, by definition.

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Actually it isn't, you can still participate with thousands of players outside of an instance, and almost every MMO (including FF11) had instanced dungeons, stop talking out of your ass.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Actually it isn't, you can still participate with thousands of players outside of an instance, and almost every MMO (including FF11) had instanced dungeons, stop talking out of your ass.

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well when you put it like that...

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Actually it isn't, you can still participate with thousands of players outside of an instance, and almost every MMO (including FF11) had instanced dungeons, stop talking out of your ass.

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Lemme Fix this..

"Actually it isn't, you can still participate with very few hundreds of players left outside of an instance including the afk players at Ul'dah limited only to your servers population"

There we go.

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Originally Posted by Joeking

Lemme Fix this..

"Actually it isn't, you can still participate with very few hundreds of players left outside of an instance including the afk players at Ul'dah limited only to your servers population"

There we go.

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We really appreciate your input. You are a really smart person. Thanks so much. What would we do without you?

That being said...

I think what JINKO was actually trying to say was that having instanced dungeons doesn't automatically make a game into Guild Wars. However, in my opinion, it doesn't really help either. I thought MMOs were supposed to be about players playing in the same world, ya know? But I guess times have gone and changed on me. I think most games are hybrids between MMOs and Entrance Lobbies now.

I thought FFXIV was going to be different, but obviously not.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

We really appreciate your input. You are a really smart person. Thanks so much. What would we do without you?

That being said...

I think what JINKO was actually trying to say was that having instanced dungeons doesn't automatically make a game into Guild Wars. However, in my opinion, it doesn't really help either. I though MMOs were supposed to be about players playing in the same world. But I guess times have changed. Most games are hybrids between MMOs and Entrance Lobbies now. I thought FFXIV was going to be different, but obviously not.

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You expected innovation, like they said in interviews pre-release.

*pats on back*

Maybe next time.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

I thought FFXIV was going to be different, but obviously not.

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Oh? I didn't know they've already released the dungeons! I'm always the last to know!

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

We really appreciate your input. You are a really smart person. Thanks so much. What would we do without you?

That being said...

I think what JINKO was actually trying to say was that having instanced dungeons doesn't automatically make a game into Guild Wars. However, in my opinion, it doesn't really help either. I thought MMOs were supposed to be about players playing in the same world, ya know? But I guess times have gone and changed on me. I think most games are hybrids between MMOs and Entrance Lobbies now.

I thought FFXIV was going to be different, but obviously not.

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Guild Wars is a really popular game :( I don't like it that much but a lot of people do.

The game changes are about more than you. The vocal opinion of this thread is not an accurate reflection of the community's opinion, either, since only those who feel strongly enough to post are in here, people who speak English, and people who bother to check the forums...which is probably a small sample of the game's population.

As for "hybrid between MMO and Entrance Lobby" no. Entrance lobby implies that you're sitting around waiting and not doing anything. Having instanced dungeons means more than one party at a time can go through the dungeon...it would be horrible to not have something like a dungeon instanced: treasure would be horribly rare, spawns would either take too long so not many people could experience a dungeon or they would be too short and thus having aggro monsters in the dungeon would be an execution row.

You are opposed to instances for illogical reasons and refuse to acknowledge the fact that the easiest and most effective way to have a large amount of players experience dungeon content is the implementation of instances.

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

Guild Wars is a really popular game :( I don't like it that much but a lot of people do.

The game changes are about more than you. The vocal opinion of this thread is not an accurate reflection of the community's opinion, either, since only those who feel strongly enough to post are in here, people who speak English, and people who bother to check the forums...which is probably a small sample of the game's population.

As for "hybrid between MMO and Entrance Lobby" no. Entrance lobby implies that you're sitting around waiting and not doing anything. Having instanced dungeons means more than one party at a time can go through the dungeon...it would be horrible to not have something like a dungeon instanced: treasure would be horribly rare, spawns would either take too long so not many people could experience a dungeon or they would be too short and thus having aggro monsters in the dungeon would be an execution row.

You are opposed to instances for illogical reasons and refuse to acknowledge the fact that the easiest and most effective way to have a large amount of players experience dungeon content is the implementation of instances.

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But then why are you guys playing MMOs?

I wouldn't mind some non-instanced Dungeons but I would want PVP enabled so my group could kill the other groups.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

But then why are you guys playing MMOs?

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Because there are areas that can be explored by every player on the server at once. Just because it has a few instanced areas does not make it (EDIT) not an MMO.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

But then why are you guys playing MMOs?

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What does this have to do with anything?