I guess it's time

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Originally Posted by Phireblast

Since we're still talking about the formula, I need second opinions on what this article says:

"On the subject of getting new content on odd-numbered patches and battle content such as the Alexander raids on the even-numbered patches, Yoshida said that content such as item level upgrades and the timing of high-difficulty raids won’t change its flow, but they will continue adding more content, such as casual content on the even-numbered patches, so there will always be something for everyone. "

Did Yoshi P straight up say 4.0's formula will be the same as 2.0...and 3.0's? Or is he still talking about 3.0 only? Link to article here:

http://www.siliconera.com/2016/06/24...8Siliconera%29

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reposting for visibility since i question my reading comprehension at times

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

Except they already use all 3 elements without the need of an elemental wheel. Skipping out entirely on thunder is a dps loss thorugh the form of DoT and procs, and both fire and blizzard have their place in the flow of a BLM's gameplay, except now you're only nessitating the use of certain elements in certain fights, creating the aforementioned button bloats when skills serve no purpose otherwise.

And as I mentioned before, if you're giving the healers all the same elements, then what's even the the point to begin with if they're all having the same damage bonus perks? It just seems like adding things for the sake of adding it. There's a reason why things should be introduced for that point alone, especially if their concern is the development constraint.

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Completely missed the point on what I said. The Element Wheel thing I was talkin about was to allow BLM to switch around their Effects, Thunder would now MP Regen and Fire would become the Thunder Proc and Blizzard would be the main source of DMG. How would that add anymore Button bloat if it's the same thing of a different element, over my Original idea? As of right now healers are basically all the same. There's literally no point to add anymore more Tanks and Healers if they aren't gonna try something different. Plus the answer to the Button Bloat would be a limited form of the gambit system. That why the game autos on what you want to activate you can focus on your main button uses.

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Originally Posted by Brian_

What irony?

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The irony is that how restrictive the game and designs are. What my problem is that many enjoy having the Dev Team just reuse old assets and the same old nonsense in a different environment. That's not being creative or innovating.... It's just being lazy. Do people not see how all the problems that were mention in this thread, will happen sooner or later? People talk about this game losing it's identity, but little do they know, this game lost it's identity a long time ago. The game needs game changing ideas, not just reskin content.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

The irony is that how restrictive the game and designs are. What my problem is that many enjoy having the Dev Team just reuse old assets and the same old nonsense in a different environment. That's not being creative or innovating.... It's just being lazy. Do people not see how all the problems that were mention in this thread, will happen sooner or later? People talk about this game losing it's identity, but little do they know, this game lost it's identity a long time ago. The game needs game changing ideas, not just reskin content.

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Completely agree. I just cannot take playing the same reskinned stuff anymore, I feel like a brain dead ape playing..lol and mostly likely will join my friends who quit years ago in 2.3...; ;

and since people are so adamant to defend the boring tome stones, same formula since 2.0..and wanting innovative stuff is so horrible and blasphemous to ask, there is no point in staying subbed. I'll always keep watching and checking to see if they change things up..but if not, I think its time for my buddies and I to all unsub.

People can stay with the same boring formula for years to come! yayyyy >.>

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Originally Posted by Phireblast

reposting for visibility since i question my reading comprehension at times

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The only thing about the formula I can get from that article is that they will add casual content, even on even-numbered patches, so everyone can have something to do, and that 3.5 is going to be similar to 2.5 and 2.55. :B

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

Completely missed the point on what I said. The Element Wheel thing I was talkin about was to allow BLM to switch around their Effects, Thunder would now MP Regen and Fire would become the Thunder Proc and Blizzard would be the main source of DMG. How would that add anymore Button bloat if it's the same thing of a different element, over my Original idea? As of right now healers are basically all the same. There's literally no point to add anymore more Tanks and Healers if they aren't gonna try something different. Plus the answer to the Button Bloat would be a limited form of the gambit system. That why the game autos on what you want to activate you can focus on your main button uses. .

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But then what is the point of this other than to add unnecessary fluff? This just seems like a cosmetic thing now and ultimately, would still have no interaction with the aforementioned elemental wheel. I'm up for more cosmetic presentation to existing jobs, but that's a different discussion altogether.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

The irony is that how restrictive the game and designs are. What my problem is that many enjoy having the Dev Team just reuse old assets and the same old nonsense in a different environment. That's not being creative or innovating.... It's just being lazy. Do people not see how all the problems that were mention in this thread, will happen sooner or later? People talk about this game losing it's identity, but little do they know, this game lost it's identity a long time ago. The game needs game changing ideas, not just reskin content.

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Having something like an elemental wheel does create a restrictive game design in the form of imbalance and optimization. Hell, WoW had it for vanilla, but for two patch ycles the entire end game was centered around fire elementals and black dragons...both of which are immune to fire spells (which happens to be an entire talent tree for a mage). There was also a particular boss fight that required frost attacks, at the time only mages and shamans had access to. The raids were 40 man so you were sure to have a mage, but a roster of 40 players came ith it's own issues. An elemental wheel in an MMO is not very innovative and at best creates imbalance in optimization, or serve to do nothing at all in actual gameplay. I feel like you're applying the context to the wrong person. You don't want a fight to start being favorable/unfavorable for BLMs because of the elemental wheel gimmick that's inherent to the boss or a fight design.

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Originally Posted by Iromi

Completely agree. I just cannot take playing the same reskinned stuff anymore, I feel like a brain dead ape playing..lol and mostly likely will join my friends who quit years ago in 2.3...; ;

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Something like Fallen's transpose idea is exactly what it is, it's just reskinning spells and wouldn't add depth to the gameplay.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

The irony is that how restrictive the game and designs are. What my problem is that many enjoy having the Dev Team just reuse old assets and the same old nonsense in a different environment. That's not being creative or innovating.... It's just being lazy. Do people not see how all the problems that were mention in this thread, will happen sooner or later? People talk about this game losing it's identity, but little do they know, this game lost it's identity a long time ago. The game needs game changing ideas, not just reskin content.

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Would it be crazy if I said that the overall stat formulas and roles are simplified to an extent so the developers can focus on engaging with bosses with unique mechanics? As someone stated in here from Yoshi-P, having the ideas you claim would make better would actually make it even worse and more restricting. Not only that, how are you going to balance all other jobs in the game? Are you going to give DRG elemental stances so he does not get shafted out a party? Element wheels in MMO's are really some of the most needlessly pointless and restrictive form of gameplay you can do. Like someone said, I like that BLM has spells that do certain functions and not what elemental affiliation it is.

I will say it again. Depth lies in the content, not how many functions or buttons you can put on your character. The way it is set up is clean with a proper learning curve, and only really skilled players can take the system to it's full potential. Basically easy to learn, hard to master.

I think I posted this video once, but what the hell? I will do it again. Pretty good example of making things complicated for the hell of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1Pn-PvhY_0

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

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I just used BLM as an example and that's WoW's fault for that oversight. Here in XIV, everyone has more than one element. It creates strategy rather than oh "He's jumping, let's stack guys for Shields and Heals." "Oh look, purple icon, run to here to place meteor." Giving me a fight with so many mechanics is not my idea of fun, it's just annoyance and delaying the fight. It's impossible to think about everyone without hurting the game. That little man is gonna have to get left behind sooner or later if he doesn't want to do his part. Everything is this game is cosmetic because it all deals the same non-elemental damage - .-; I'm not saying they should go crazy with the Elements, just to add a few. Something different then just reusing the same mechanics in a different rotation of a fight.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

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Even if DRG had Fire one of it WS, how would that hurt the Job? Boss is resistance to Fire. Oh look, the DMG from said WS only lost 20% in power. I think they would be fine.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

Even if DRG had Fire one of it WS, how would that hurt the Job? Boss is resistance to Fire. Oh look, the DMG from said WS only lost 20% in power. I think they would be fine.

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Then it would completely change the DRG's rotation when DPS already have to adjust rotations based on how raid boss mechanics work. Fixing rotations within rotations. That is called being needlessly complex. Its not depth, its annoyance and creates an even bigger barrier of less skilled to more skilled players, which makes something like the raiding scene even worse.

On my MCH alone. In raids I have to watch for silencing abilities, applying heavy to targets that need it, use an MP turret if needed, applying Rend Mind on heavy hits, or guiding adds where they need to go. This is while dealing with mechanics and optimizing my DPS rotation, which I have to make adjustments to every boss fight in raids. You want to throw more on top of that?

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

I just used BLM as an example and that's WoW's fault for that oversight. Here in XIV, everyone has more than one element. It creates strategy rather...

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What strategy are you talking about? All that does is create a situation where you use a skill when it's best suited, if using it at all? Heck, even in the example you gave for DRG, what's stopping them from using the fire WS even when it's going to do less damage? Are we going to be using it in a combo whenever it's up, or only when it's the most ideal?

If that DRG is going to do 20% less damage on an ability, why are we even going to take the DRG over another job that won't have this problem, or even have an ability that would be better suited? There's better way to introduce mechanics to the job that isn't tying to the elemental wheel, which is either going to cause imbalance to take away from development time, or be so homogenized that it might as well not be there at all.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

Even if DRG had Fire one of it WS, how would that hurt the Job? Boss is resistance to Fire. Oh look, the DMG from said WS only lost 20% in power. I think they would be fine.

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Take this ouit of a vaccum, how is that damage loss compared to other jobs? Compared to other DRG abilties? As I mentioned, you've either introduced a skill that have as ituational use and has no other use other than to sit there if it's not feasible, or if it's going to be used anyway, it's doing less damage than other jobs who do not have this issue, or moreso if they have a stronger element.

By design, fights can be more variable and less monotonous than a job's gameplay, which is persistent throughout the entire life. Not just in MMOs but games in general. You approach boss fights differently because they have different patterns, but you have relatively the same tool kits. The longevity of class design is just as limited as any other content, but at least with fight scenarios they can be different from each other (much like how jobs are different from each other, for the most part anyway). When you start introducing gimmicks like elements, you need to design fights with that in mind, which limits what you can do. Back to the WoW example, it was less of an oversight bcause those sort of niches worked when you have 39 other players with you in the party. You were much more likely to have sources of frost damage. It definitely wouldn't work as well in a 10 man raid when there's no guaranteed you could have a mage in the party for that frost mechanic, and the oversight with fire immunity comes more into line when they started adding elemental attacks to other jobs that wasn't a caster, such as survival hunters having explosive shots, but by that point the content has become so outdated (2 expansions) that it didn't matter much.

It's not the case for FFXIV when we don't have a talent system for the jobs (since armory fills that nicely), but in context of equipment and weapons, you still wouldn't want to hinder a job's performance for something as niche as elemental weaknesses/strengths

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Then it would completely change the DRG's rotation when DPS already have to adjust rotations based on how raid boss mechanics work. Fixing rotations within rotations. That is called being needlessly complex. Its not depth, its annoyance and creates an even bigger barrier of less skilled to more skilled players, which makes something like the raiding scene even worse.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

What strategy are you talking about? All that does is create a situation where you use a skill when it's best suited, if using it at all? Heck, even in the example you gave for DRG, what's stopping them from using the fire WS even when it's going to do less damage? Are we going to be using it in a combo whenever it's up, or only when it's the most ideal?

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I want to thank you guys for pointing out why I hate the Rotation system or at least in it's current state. It doesn't allow for flexibility in combat and forces you to play the game in one "True" manner. Plus people will favor others anyway if their DPS is to par. How is that any different from now with these "Experience Players Only" or "Tomes or Kicked" nonsense? The gaming community is already in a hassle state.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

I want to thank you guys for pointing out why I hate the Rotation system or at least in it's current state. It doesn't allow for flexibility in combat and forces you to play the game in one "True" manner. Plus people will favor others anyway if their DPS is to par. How is that any different from now with these "Experience Players Only" or "Tomes or Kicked" nonsense? The gaming community is already in a hassle state.

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And you would rather have rotations that would then take away from fight design because now they have to keep additional things in mind? I don't like some of the rotations in mind (specifically BRD), but for a game that has slow-paced combat as this, you don't have much room to work with when it comes to variety or on-spot thinking, especially when it comes to animation locks. Even with what you suggested, it'll ultimately fall back to the same scenario where one rotation/ability rotation is more optimal because the fight allows it, except now we have excess abilities sitting around that won't serve a purpose. And double tack on that they need to take that into consideration when it comes to designing fights and overall balance, it's more work for something that may or may not last long ,and has a use for maybe 1 or 2 fights every patch cycle.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

I want to thank you guys for pointing out why I hate the Rotation system or at least in it's current state. It doesn't allow for flexibility in combat and forces you to play the game in one "True" manner. Plus people will favor others anyway if their DPS is to par. How is that any different from now with these "Experience Players Only" or "Tomes or Kicked" nonsense? The gaming community is already in a hassle state.

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Can you please explain how your system would be a less toxic route for the community?

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Can you please explain how your system would be a less toxic route to for the community?

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Ideally a Gambit System would help lessen the toxicity but I'm not down to make the game any easier. With the current system, I can't tell what kind of DPS is good or bad. This is why I gave up on tightening my rotation because I will never be fast enough to click click click without hitting the wrong key neither do I have the hand strength to be mashing keys. My DPS will always suffer in the long run which is why I'm not keen on strict DPS checks. With a limited Gambit System, players can focus less on their rotation which could help lessen the tunnel vision and focus more on what the boss is doing. Now if ignore all that, that's on you and deserve to be kicked for internationally ignoring your abilities. This entire game is built on gimmicks so idk how elements would be any different. You could come up with a gimmick using elements for Melees and Ranges. As for mages, they could use their elements to further help the pty.

An example could be like Aero. Enemy is weak to aero. WHM casts their Aero DoTs, Enemy now receives an increased in overall damage taken. As for Melee/DPS, they could have an option to align their elements before the fight, that way no excuses. As long as someone hits the elemental weaknesses, the boss takes more damage. Anyone could do it, that way no Job is "excluded."

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

Ideally a Gambit System would help lessen the toxicity but I'm not down to make the game any easier. With the current system, I can't tell what kind of DPS is good or bad. This is why I gave up on tightening my rotation because I will never be fast enough to click click click without hitting the wrong key neither do I have the hand strength to be mashing keys

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It's very clear cut to someone that isn't performing their optimal. post 50 rotation, or someone that straight up isn't dpsing. You can tell this through animation, cast bars, as well as the rate of when things die (which is generally a red light if something is taking relatively much much longer to phase or die). And even then, pushing dps isn't an issue unless you're at savage raiding to begin with, nor honestly, is the game that taxing on button mashing. The result of you having so many keys is because of button bloating, there's just so many abilities that add no depth to the job (gauss round for example) but you have to use it off cooldown anyway, but the solution to that isn't to add more situational abilties or make it less oriented in combos (which at this point, means redoing DRG, MNK and NIN entirely).

Is this a personal agenda where you want to simplify the game because you can't keep up, or do you honestly think that the combat system, the way it is right now, is a detriment to the game? Please make it clear so I know what you want to push for, because it really doesn't make sense in regards to adding more depth to job mechanics or variety to the gameplay.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

This entire game is built on gimmicks so idk how elements would be any different. You could come up with a gimmick using elements for Melees and Ranges. As for mages, they could use their elements to further help the pty.

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You mean like how DRGs and BRD already do this through disembowel and foe requiem? I mean I already get upset if the DRG in my party doesn't do theiur chaos thrust combo, or a BRD not playing foe when there's 5 other casters in weeping city, but this ultimately isn't making it any easier since the game literally hands you these skills as you gain them. Infact with the gambit, you're adding more needless depth as something that they need to maintain beyond using the skill itself.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

An example could be like Aero. Enemy is weak to aero. WHM casts their Aero DoTs, Enemy now receives an increased in overall damage taken. As for Melee/DPS, they could have an option to align their elements before the fight, that way no excuses. As long as someone hits the elemental weaknesses, the boss takes more damage. Anyone could do it, that way no Job is "excluded."

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If everyone is capable of doing that elemental weakness, then I have to ask what's even the point? All you've done is added another layer where now the jobs are somehow homogenized to each other now. Even if the weakness wasn't present, a WHM is going to cast aero anyway for damage, all you've really added is fluff.

I still stand by my Limited Gambit idea. That would honestly help lessen the button bloats. If anything, I rather they add that. Something has to give because I'm not doing the same thing in 4.0. That's when I say enough is enough.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

I still stand by my Limited Gambit idea. That would honestly help lessen the button bloats. If anything, I rather they add that. Something has to give because I'm not doing the same thing in 4.0. That's when I say enough is enough.

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So you want the game to play for you? What?

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

I still stand by my Limited Gambit idea. That would honestly help lessen the button bloats. If anything, I rather they add that. Something has to give because I'm not doing the same thing in 4.0. That's when I say enough is enough.

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So your brilliant idea to make the game more engaging in battle is for you to do less? 10/10.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Can you please explain how your system would be a less toxic route for the community?

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Various parts of the community are already toxic when they advocate the message of "not wanting anything to change".

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I'm against a Gambit system. I use a controller. I only ever have need of 32 buttons. My DRK is only using like 28 slots. My BLM even less.

I have 6 more bars of 16 I could be using. Button bloat is nonexistent. M&K users have even more options I wager.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

I still stand by my Limited Gambit idea. That would honestly help lessen the button bloats. If anything, I rather they add that. Something has to give because I'm not doing the same thing in 4.0. That's when I say enough is enough.

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Well don't let the uninstall button hit you on the way when you leave.
Hell I play a Nin but you don't see me crying when I gotta play Naruto handsigns like crazy popping skills. If pressing 1-2-3-4 over and over that much of an issue for you I strongly suggest not playing any MMO anymore. You are basically ASKING for them to make a Bot System for you. Plain and simple.

Toxic community comes from duty finder IMO most of the number cruncher/ people want to impose their style of play when they match up in a pug groups. Instead of maybe finding a group of like minded ppl and leave what they consider bad players behind imo fin for themselves. That's why we have free company's that why we have linshells to be used as tools to build a non toxic community because people are different, but people chose convenience of quick duty finder ques over people we can get along with. This isn't a mmo it a regular mo that you que in a instance for 30-60min time frame and say thanks for the party and leave for most not all of course.

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Originally Posted by odintius

Toxic community comes from duty finder IMO most of the number cruncher/ people want to impose their style of play when they match up in a pug groups. Instead of maybe finding a group of like minded ppl and leave what they consider bad players behind imo fin for themselves. That's why we have free company's that why we have linshells to be used as tools to build a non toxic community because people are different, but people chose convenience of quick duty finder ques over people we can get along with. This isn't a mmo it a regular mo that you que in a instance for 30-60min time frame and say thanks for the party and leave for most not all of course.

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Ultima: Tank you need to use Overpower on the group of adds so you dont loose aggro or your healer will take it away from you and we all die.

Tank: Piss off

I'm sorry for imposing my play style on you Mr. Tank

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Originally Posted by LalafellDown

Ultima: Tank you need to use Overpower on the group of adds so you dont loose aggro or your healer will take it away from you and we all die.

Tank: Piss off

I'm sorry for imposing my play style on you Mr. Tank

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Then find a group who doesn't suck and stop using duty finder simple people have been known to use this example and live allot less stressful gaming experience but convenience will triumph what is required to find said group isn't easy to find I known hence DF.

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Originally Posted by LalafellDown

Ultima: Tank you need to use Overpower on the group of adds so you dont loose aggro or your healer will take it away from you and we all die.

Tank: Piss off

I'm sorry for imposing my play style on you Mr. Tank

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dps:"Why not pull the entire room?"
tank:"because there are bees in it, and this is safer"
:dps pulls the entire room, bees predictably do their final sting. one wipe later:
"we are not doing that again"
:dps pulls entire room again:

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Various parts of the community are already toxic when they advocate the message of "not wanting anything to change".

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I don't think anyone is against adjustments or improvements to the current battle system. What I am against is outdated, unbalanced ideas that only accomplish making things worse. Not a fan of tearing down what works and replacing it with something that has only shown to be an unbalanced mess. Current system in FFXIV may not be perfect, but i'll take that over the ideas I have seen in here any day.

I'll give you an example. I don't believe accuracy is a necessary stat to balance stats in content. I have offered ideas in how the system can work without it and the days of healers only stacking accuracy a thing of the past. Then months later we get Yoshi-P mentioning that they are currently debating if accuracy will make it to the next expansion or not. Constructive criticism of what is already in place does go places. I doubt it was my post specifically that planted the idea, but it is nice knowing developers are listening to those type of things.

I'm not saying for it to play the game for us. That's why I said Limited. The purpose it would have is to lessen the buttons on your bar. There's just some skills you have on your bar that are on constant CD. The purpose would be to let the game keep activating the skill. If you wanna turn it into a constant buff or trait, so be it. Some form of change would be nice. People that just shoot the idea down and use the same lame excuse like "Oh uninstall" or "Git gud" provide nothing toxicity cuz they got nothing good to say. I can respect RiceisNice because he/she is providing feedback to my ideas. The game is a sinking ship in it's current state. I'm tired of content that doesn't last more than a month or next patch. I'm not going to move to another MMO because it's just gonna be the same nonsense. I'm tired of the "Oh WoW did it and it didn't work." I hate hearing that excuse because idc about WoW. I didn't ask to play WoW Reskin. I asked to play a FF game. Adding in costumes and mobs and jobs from FF games doesn't mean it's a FF game. What other thing will they add, just to change around because it doesn't fit with the way the game is?

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Originally Posted by Velhart

I'll give you an example. I don't believe accuracy is a necessary stat to balance stats in content. I have offered ideas in how the system can work without it and the days of healers only stacking accuracy a thing of the past. Then months later we get Yoshi-P mentioning that they are currently debating if accuracy will make it to the next expansion or not. Constructive criticism of what is already in place does go places. I doubt it was my post specifically that planted the idea, but it is nice knowing developers are listening to those type of things.

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If they remove accuracy, then I'm done. I'm not for ideas that remove basic RPG logic. That's would be the dumbest thing they would've done if it they did.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

I'm not saying for it to play the game for us. That's why I said Limited. The purpose it would have is to lessen the buttons on your bar. There's just some skills you have on your bar that are on constant CD. The purpose would be to let the game keep activating the skill. If you wanna turn it into a constant buff or trait, so be it. So form of change would be nice. People that just shoot the idea down and use the same lame excuse like "Oh uninstall" or "Git gud" provide nothing toxicity cuz they got nothing good to say. I can respect RiceisNice because he/she is providing feedback to my ideas. The game is a sinking ship in it's current state. I'm tired of content that doesn't last more than a month or next patch. I'm not going to move to another MMO because it's just gonna be the same nonsense. I'm tired of the "Oh WoW did it and it didn't work." I hate hearing that excuse because idc about WoW. I didn't ask to play WoW Reskin. I asked to play a FF game. Adding in costumes and mobs and jobs frim FF games doesn't mean it's a FF game. What other thing will they add, just to change around because it doesn't fit with the way the game is?

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Funny you mention gambits, because there is a better idea to implement them and SE is already floating the idea around with. They have mentioned the possibility of using Grand Company's to summon three NPC's to join you in content that have their own AI. If they implement that, something similar to a gambit system would work wonders.

WoW is only but one example of when you add some form of elemental wheel, that is causes an imbalance that helps nothing. You really have to take into account when you add something like this the troubles it causes the developers balancing content, players getting frustrated with the constant imbalance of jobs and content more than what the game already deals with, and the simple question of "Is it fun?" Some do need to review complexity vs. depth and find out they are two completely different things.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

If they remove accuracy, then I'm done. I'm not for ideas that remove basic RPG logic. That's would be the dumbest thing they would've done if it they did.

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I know you are just going to love it when I say this. WoW did it and it was a successful move on their end. If Yoshi-P is acknowledging that removing it is a possibility, then that absolutely means it is possible for it to work in this game also. I know a lot of healer friends of mine jumped for joy when they heard that.

Because Twelve forbid SE consider something else? yes, they painted themselves into a corner due to how vital accuracy is and how much a non starter it is to not have 100% accuracy, but that doesn't really address the concerns about the content itself becoming rote. Is the effort to become its own thing really too far for a mmo?

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Funny you mention gambits, because there is a better idea to implement them and SE is already floating the idea around with. They have mentioned the possibility of using Grand Company's to summon three NPC's to join you in content that have their own AI. If they implement that, something similar to a gambit system would work wonders.

WoW is only but one example of when you add some form of elemental wheel, that is causes an imbalance that helps nothing. You really have to take into account when you add something like this the troubles it causes the developers balancing content, players getting frustrated with the constant imbalance of jobs and content more than what the game already deals with, and the simple question of "Is it fun?" Some do need to review complexity vs. depth and find out they are two completely different things.

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I can see it as working wonders for newbies but won't that just alienate the community even more? There would be almost no reason to party up at all unless it's a Trial or Raid. Honestly speaking, how really different are all these Jobs? The only real complexity this game has is DPSin. Mechanics become second natural after awhile. And every fight, the boss does the same thing. It's fun the first time but after awhile it just becomes a chore.

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I know you are just going to love it when I say this. WoW did it and it was a successful move on their end. If Yoshi-P is acknowledging that removing it is a possibility, then that absolutely means it is possible for it to work in this game also. I know a lot of healer friends of mine jumped for joy when they heard that.

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I can't see why they just can't give them Accuracy in their gear. It's almost like he's doing it on purpose. It just tells me Yoshi-P is unoriginal with any of his ideas.

The problem with stats is another separate debate IMO. We all know a variety of stats look good on paper but do nothing for you. Elemental and Physical resistances being a big one. Mainly these resistances not existing at all. All the stats that do matter that do leave an impact only serves to bolster a main attack stat. Could just remove all the main stats and simply label them Attack and Defense and no one would bat an eye. Could mention Parry. They say they are making changes...however fail to elaborate on what kind of changes...changes I expect will most likely involve the future Samurai class.

The problem OP has and many other people have is that for all the content that exists...it's the same thing. And hasn't changed since 2.0. It just hides behind smoke, mirrors, and spectacle. People want more then tedious grinds that are reliant on Tomestone and Token acquisition. Content dead on arrival is no content at all.

Take Diadem. They spewed a bunch of unfulfilled promises and ended up with a bunch of bullshit. What did it actually offer? Another grind in which you traded in gear for tokens which can be looked at as obtaining tokens for tokens for exclusive Diadem only items.

I wonder how long Palace of the Dead will last? Or is Palace of the Dead just going to be a dungeon generator...to give way for no new dungeons until 4.0? One has to wonder. But it'll have a mount probably so it's worth it right?

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Originally Posted by Kallera

dps:"Why not pull the entire room?"
tank:"because there are bees in it, and this is safer"
:dps pulls the entire room, bees predictably do their final sting. one wipe later:
"we are not doing that again"
:dps pulls entire room again:

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If you see final sting the dps is horrible, just saying XD. Well it's also how geared they are as well I guess. But yeah..

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

I wonder how long Palace of the Dead will last? Or is Palace of the Dead just going to be a dungeon generator...to give way for no new dungeons until 4.0? One has to wonder. But it'll have a mount probably so it's worth it right?

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Call me Dr. Cyncism, but I don't think it'll last long. Here's how I see it playing out based on the information we're given for some(not all) people:

Day 1: This is actually pretty cool.

Day 2: This is still somewhat interesting.

Day 3: Alright, we cleared all the floors....what now?

Day 4: I guess i'll run it solo...

Somewhere between Days 5 and 7: *player goes back to whatever they were doing beforehand because the content's novelty wore off*

I wager when the initial hype wears off Palace of the Dead will be exactly what it says it will be. Dead.

I think it will depend on the xp that carries over to the outside world. They said 'a portion' would carry over to the real world. If that 'portion' is a decent amount, palace of the dead can be another choice for leveling alt jobs for people who are tired of the same 10 dungeons and fate grinding.

The amount of xp is the part I'm most hopeful for, far moreso than whatever weapon we get out of it.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

I wager when the initial hype wears off Palace of the Dead will be exactly what it says it will be. Dead.

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What in the F'n world do you want. They try and try to make new or interesting things, you swoop in and say it'll suck before it's even released. There is some odd population of players who I can't discernably figure out if they even like video games when I see crap like this. There is just no pleasing you, they'll never hit all the right notes because everyone is constantly changing the tunes.

Even if they gave you guys every freaking thing you wanted and turned this into Final Fantasy XI-2, you'd move the Goal Posts and be like "THEY DID IT ALL WRONG!!"

Even the guy who wanted the Gambit system so the game would play for him at least had functional input as to what he thinks may be an improvement. Even if I disagree, it's better than just swooping in an sniping any idea Square tries to implement before it even comes out. Don't retort by citing their failures, either. Because they try to give us something new, and the players are the ones who turn it into what it is because they want the fastest method to get their crap. It turned into a Dino island farm because that was the fastest way to get your Spoils. I'm fine with the system having flaws, but the only people with suggestions are the same people who troll the forum and post in every one of these topics things like "FFXI was so much better because *insert random BS*."

New ideas, guys. New. Don't be lazy and ask for outdated systems that would further bore and all ready bored player base. If all you do in the game is just want the best stuff, and everything else is worthless, you're actively ignoring 98% of content. It's a problem with you.

Off-Topic but this thread really makes the day go by fast at work lol.

Back on Topic:

I don't know who to blame at this point. SE for being cheap with the Dev Team or the Dev Team continuing to ignore the fixes this game really needs. It's just sad that I'm more excited for the XI moblie game coming out than the Dev Team has planned for the next patch.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

It's just sad that I'm more excited for the XI moblie game coming out than the Dev Team has planned for the next patch.

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It's also sad that the XI mobile spin-off that Japan got (not the XI one we're getting) is more fun than XIV too. But from looking at the Nexon XI mobile game, it really feels like they might be dumbing some stuff down and locking jobs to 1 weapon, seeing as the screenshots show a 1 handed club for whm being used as a 2 handed staff :/

I think the last XIV update I got excited about was back before 2.5. Everything is just the same and nothing really exciting. But pretty much every single XI update, even ones that just had a few job changes, I actually got excited for, so that's saying something.

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Originally Posted by Judah_Brandt

Snip

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Not retorting by citing their failures only serves to stem an argument at it's roots. I could cite their successes with a moderately enjoyable Main Scenario questline but beyond that what is left? Crafting?

Many had hope for Diadem. Look how that turned out. Expectations will be low. They promised on airship exploration, diverse objectives, the works. People were excited. When it dropped and players took the plunge...nothing but underwhelming disappointment.

After that many will be on guard. And rightfully so.

You are right they tried to give us something new...except all the objectives they gave you already exist in mining PvE nodes, FATES, and "The Hunt" which also mirrored the already existing Treasure Maps in PvE.

And FYI I never played FFXI. But I have been an avid FF fan since FF1 on the NES/Famicom. And I can see poor game design when I see it.

Gating content and making everything a tedious grind and retreading the same steps already walked upon isn't fun IMO. And what was one of their key points? Oh right. "If it isn't fun. You're doing it wrong".

Truly they have learned from their mistakes.

Especially when designing "new content" that they make grindy or gate out rewards in an effort to ensure their content isn't dead on arrival. Which IMO if you can't keep a player occupied in any other way...isn't that technically failure in itself?

You ask for new ideas. When offered them you simply shove them away.

What are your ideas? Make it a different game? Blow it up again and start from scratch? You'd just still say it was bad. Literally I see no recourse. That any and everyone who enjoys the game as it is now for what it is are to be somehow discounted as stooges.

They've tried and failed. They've tried and succeeded. You're an armchair developer who's dissatisfied with a product with no functional input but pessimism. You call a grind tedious because either you're not familiar with MMOs, or you just genuinely dislike the gameplay. If you're not having fun, then you don't like the game. That's fine. We can't make everyone happy. Some people hate broccoli, so do you blame the broccoli or the people? I dislike Forza 2. Does that mean the game is bad? No. You don't have to play things you don't like

Move the Goal Posts again.

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Originally Posted by Judah_Brandt

What in the F'n world do you want. They try and try to make new or interesting things, you swoop in and say it'll suck before it's even released. There is some odd population of players who I can't discernably figure out if they even like video games when I see crap like this. There is just no pleasing you, they'll never hit all the right notes because everyone is constantly changing the tunes.

Even if they gave you guys every freaking thing you wanted and turned this into Final Fantasy XI-2, you'd move the Goal Posts and be like "THEY DID IT ALL WRONG!!"

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Getting angry with forum posts doesn't really help anything either as their post isn't exactly incorrect, and this is coming from someone who feels that palace of the dead will be fine as is.

There's a common misconception as to where it's supposed to fit in the content hierarchy, from what i can see palace of the dead isn't meant to be "endgame" content but rather an answer to the very real problem of new players and vets hardly interacting with each other outside of level roulette until the former hits 60.

If i were to try and get a friend to join this game they certainly couldn't join me for Nidhogg Ex right out of the gate, they could however join me for Palace of the Dead when they hit 17 and it's something we could do together and both make progress in, for those purposes the content is fine. Outside of that however it does further illustrate the issue that we have a lack of content variety at higher levels.

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Originally Posted by Judah_Brandt

New ideas, guys. New. Don't be lazy and ask for outdated systems that would further bore and all ready bored player base. If all you do in the game is just want the best stuff, and everything else is worthless, you're actively ignoring 98% of content. It's a problem with you.

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This keeps getting tossed around but when you make this statement you're missing the point.

Just because someone enjoys certain types of content doesn't mean they're actively avoiding the rest, the reality is that the majority of content in the game doesn't take a significant amount of time invested or have very much longevity. I'm sure you've seen one of the many threads that routinely pop up about players no longer making learning parties for "x" primal or some such because the content is designed without real staying power, that and playing battle content doesn't prevent someone from enjoying the gold saucer, leveling their crafts, or doing beastman dailies as those activities really only take a few minutes each.

If you want suggestions many have been made already, things like:

Limbus, Nyzul Isle, Einherjar,ZNMs and Moblin Maze Mongers

The framework of many of these would mesh very well with the way the Duty Finder is designed.

Obviously nobody is asking for a 1:1 copy of their systems as XIV is a fundamentally different game, but the reason XI gets as much praise as it does despite it's mountain of flaws, game play issues, and outdated combat system is because it did a really good job of offering content variety something XIV is currently falling behind on.

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Originally Posted by Judah_Brandt

What are your ideas? Make it a different game?

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Many merely wish the game to be improved. How many years do you want to grind out Tomestones and tokens? They don't want the game to be different in it's entirety. They want it to be fun again. They want it to offer diversity. And advocation of taking an extended break and hoping for the best or at worst "play something else" won't improve the game as it is. At times I feel that as an MMO it is far too antisocial to even be called one. I mean you can't even trade gear or even currency outside of Gil to help out a fellow player. I mean come on now. You have new content having learn parties and by day 2 it's either know fight or get lost.

Instead of uniting our community you would rather stand divided. A divided house cannot stand. And without that support it will stagnate and die off in less time then XI did. The GM's and players don't even talk to one another about the game they love on these very forums.

Am I wrong?