Naturally he's being cryptic. And he certainly views it as a dps, because once again he is imagining a samurai archetype that is visually opposite of samurai's portrayal in the vast majority of final fantasy games by taking away it's iconic armor. So in order for him to make it make sense as a dps he had to strip it of all its armor to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Radacci
And there's more dps players than tanks so like, that's how statistics work? Of course more people want it as a dps because they're a much bigger pool of people.
Doesn't change the fact that tanking is crucial to this game and that adding only dps jobs will hurt this game rather than help it.
SAMURAI SHOWDOWN
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05-01-2016, 03:32 AMShippuu
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05-01-2016, 03:32 AMTanathyaSince you're a smartass, you might as well simplify things for yourself to understand. So far, you're not right about anything, given your points are moot. How are they moot? Just read the rest of the thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shippuu
Also, no one needs your condescendent crap (which you do pretty often) when all they do is disagree with you. Keep it to yourself.
Like I said earlier, please, keep walking down Reality Lane. -
05-01-2016, 03:37 AMAlacranI will admit I was initially upset by Dark Knight being a Tank (it is after all the one job i wanted since 1.0). However even then I could not pretend that it fit it's role better in this iteration than it would have as a DPS. Looking back at FFXI with the benefit hindsight I can see how bad things were for DRK pre two hand update (we were called wiff knights btw, piss poor accuracy values), our skills could and often did kill us (many a young DRK killed themselves on Soul Eater back in the day), and our skills made us a chore to have in the party for almost all healers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanathya
Looking at what we have now (while far from perfect) I am much happier with the fact they went back to the established roots of the job for the FFXIV iteration.
http://rs971.pbsrc.com/albums/ae200/...ecil-.jpg~c200 -
05-01-2016, 03:41 AMMagiusNecrosI agree it's silly but many will use that as the reasoning why a scythe combat class won't happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Radacci
Wouldn't be surprised if SAM wields a Naginata what with that whole xi event. Which is a Lance anyway. -
05-01-2016, 03:43 AMTanathyaNot this again lol. Gimme my roots, gimme my hp-consuming (what makes a DRK, a DRK) skill. Otherwise, don't talk about roots, I beg of you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alacran
Be happy with what you got, but don't tell me this is how they've always been, for fuck's sake, they took out their abilities to make it a tank. How much more obvious can something be. I love tanking, I adore tanking, but on a job that feels like a tank (always speaking FF-wise). I learned to enjoy DRK in FFXIV, as long as I don't think of it as a classic DRK, or a DRK at all. Simply because I've been waiting for it since 1.0. -
05-01-2016, 03:45 AMMagiusNecros
Take a look at BDFF/BSEL. Now XIV. Which DRK would you pick?
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05-01-2016, 03:47 AMShippuu"You're wrong because reasons."Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanathya
That's you right now. Please, if you're not able to disprove what I just said with your own words then, to use your words, keep it to yourself.
It takes two to tango and you've certainly spouted your fair share of condescension here as well. It's ironic when you tell others to look at the bigger picture when you're incapable of it yourself. -
05-01-2016, 03:51 AMTanathyaYou're wrong becauseQuote:
Originally Posted by Shippuu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanathya
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05-01-2016, 03:57 AMShippuuLmao, you mean this thread that includes all manner of people's opinions both for and against samurai as different roles? Please tell me how exactly the rest of this thread directly disproves the statements I said?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanathya
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05-01-2016, 04:00 AMTanathyaHold on...Quote:
Originally Posted by Shippuu
See if you can connect both dots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanathya
Anyway, you're alone from here on, I'm kind of tired of your attitude. And coming from someone with an attitude, that's something. -
05-01-2016, 04:14 AMNalienHonestly? I'd rather have the freedom to play different roles than picking my own poison with a single role...Quote:
Originally Posted by Shippuu
If I gear Dark Knight, that's Fending, that gear is only good for Dark Knight, Paladin, and Warrior. All tanking Jobs. There is some variety there, and certain situations see a different tank shine, but ultimately the game wasn't designed with "You need X tank" in mind, so I really don't care which is technically better... The only place that is ever going to matter is at the bleeding edge of Alexander (Savage), which is a shocking minority of this games playerbase to begin with...
I would honestly much rather have something like Blue Mage as a tank for the exact reason you seem to want all tanks sticking to Fending... I'd rather have a tank that makes use of Casting gear, or healer that uses Ranging/Scouting, so I can gear up and have variety in what role I play, than be locked to a single role because reasons... Having the option of tank or DPS is much stronger than tank or tank IMO... -
05-01-2016, 04:21 AMDWolfwoodThis is actually the first, honest and legitimate reason to have a tank wear caster gear that I've seen in this entire thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalien
It should definitely be considered, but it has to be weighed against the fact that if you could potentially have 3-5 people all rolling on Caster gear, and that is clearly something people would not enjoy. I suspect such a tank would have to bring serious utility to the table for any serious raid groups to decide on it, which would lead to less popularity again. Something to think about though. -
05-01-2016, 04:22 AMAlacran
I know when I think of Samurai what comes to mind (in the Fantasy) are the elaborate armored Tanks.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...1807d99558.jpg
As opposed to say the unarmored variant DPS.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_yoNIrzKqt.../samurai+1.jpg
I mean seriously how cool is this?
https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7541/1...e0d53400_b.jpg
... (this is only partially a joke... i think it looks cool as !@#%) -
05-01-2016, 04:28 AMShippuuWell considering the "rest of the thread" contains plenty of my own arguments, one of which you're unwilling to attempt to disprove yourself. Then I'll just have to accept them as viable arguments. Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanathya
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05-01-2016, 04:31 AMTanathyaYou're welcome!Quote:
Originally Posted by Shippuu
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05-01-2016, 04:33 AMCiri_WolfAnd still none of that refutes what I said. Auron is clearly designed to look like your badass samurai character. I don't care if he's not wearing iconic armor. Just like I don't care that Fang isn't wearing Dragoon armor or Snow isn't using martial arts gear. Auron is clearly based off of the samurai class from older FFs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shippuu
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05-01-2016, 04:34 AMEdwinLi
http://i.imgur.com/kp8te.gif?noredirect
It is rather entertaining to see how this thread continues between DPS and Tank Samurai.
Yoshi-p already announced he plans to reveal the detail of the new Jobs for 4.0 this year on PAX 2016 if I remember right. -
05-01-2016, 04:38 AMDWolfwoodIt's sad to me, because I'm trying to unite both sides into asking for 2 jobs. Everyone seems to agree it could work, but some would rather argue than support it. :/Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwinLi
I'm not refuting it, but Auron is more of a mixed character, much like most the jobs are in that game, hence why they don't have definitive classes to begin with. I mean, he's literally a "warrior monk" if you wanted to get into it, but I won't deny that there are elements that are samurai-inspired. Even his Masamune was a western sword, so I think someone who argued that he's not a samurai would have some leverage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciri_Wolf
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05-01-2016, 04:40 AMEdwinLiIf Yoshi-P had not chosen to stop creating a class that branch into 2 Jobs then it may have been more support. However, that is just how the river flows when ....Quote:
Originally Posted by DWolfwood
http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-conten...highlander.gif -
05-01-2016, 04:42 AMCiri_WolfThis topic about class discussion has been a million times more enjoyable than the 10 "PVP sux" or "Spam bot" topics on the front page. I'm loving this. This message board needs more discussions.Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwinLi
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05-01-2016, 04:49 AMShippuuThere's a few caveats to consider with this however. I'm not saying it's not possible, and in fact it would be a good thing for players. But there's a few things to consider if this path was taken.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalien
1.) You now have 2 roles competing for the same gear. In content progression for raiding, tanks already usually get last picks when it comes to things like upgrade items, now throw in that they have to compete with a mage for gear too? They'll usually always get last pick. Things like Void Ark? Where there can be sometimes up to 5 mages in a party? It's not all that fair to have a tank competing that much for gear. You want to encourage people to play and keep playing tanks, not discourage them.
2.) It goes against the MMO concept of keeping players playing. The gear grind is there to keep players subscribed to the game longer which means more money for SE. If you suddenly start allowing people to gear 2 completely different roles at the same time, their time to gear is half what it could be. Half the time spent = potential loss of subs earlier.
So again, it'd be great for the players, giving them more flexibility but it does have drawbacks that need to be considered. -
05-01-2016, 04:52 AMDWolfwoodLol, nooooo. We can all be friends! The 1 class -> 2 job route would definitely be ideal, but they could also just do 2 jobs that start at 30, and if enough people want it, it will happen!Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwinLi
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05-01-2016, 04:53 AMShippuuI personally would like to see them implement a skill tree system only for the new 4.0 jobs, which allow for basically multi-role jobs in a different way than the smn/sch and thus have Samurai be able to be a tank or melee dps. And then have red mage be either a melee dps or ranged dps.Quote:
Originally Posted by DWolfwood
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05-01-2016, 04:54 AMDWolfwoodI think something like this is kind of needed at this point. While I could fit plenty more skills into my hotbars and be fine, I'm seeing that most people are not comfortable with them adding new skills, but they should keep adding some kind of new facet to our jobs. This fits it, imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shippuu
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05-01-2016, 05:07 AMEdwinLiIt may work if they can some how make basic skills change base on the Job role.Quote:
Originally Posted by DWolfwood
For example,
Tank Role: 123 combo generates enmity but not as strong as DPS version damage rate.
DPS Role: 123 combo obtains a special buff stack or debuff while performing more damage than the Tank Role 123 combo. -
05-01-2016, 07:19 AMMagiusNecrosGonna ask this again. What can SAM offer that isn't already there. And simply won't be popular new job of expansion pack.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagiusNecros
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05-01-2016, 08:31 AMAlphaFox
Well going on the 2 Soul idea. Much like with the PvP aspect of skills, perhaps they could still keep the skills exactly the same but give them different affects based on the stone equipped? Such as your basic 1-2-3 combo having higher potency but when equipped with the tank soul it generates more hate rather than higher damage? Same ranged attack, same combos (tho if positional removed for Tank soul), same skills. One idea could be "Channel",perhaps channeling the power of ancestors to aid you. As a DPS increase damage by X for X secs. As a tank, it boosts your defense for x secs.
It removes (i think) the need to balance two classes when they share the same skills all together. The difference then being the armor they equip but not the weapon. Stats would still need to be swapped of course but those are cheap. Just an idea to think about cus I do agree with both sides. Samurai could be a DPS or a Tank. This way we have no need for new skills or animations except for the limit break. Plus it would be kinda funny in a way to think about 3 Samurai (1 tank, 2 dps) in a party.
Thinking on this I guess we would need the base class again much like Arcanist which to me would include starting at level 1 again. Personally I wouldn't mind though. -
05-01-2016, 11:55 AMShurrikhanLiterally anything that isn't already there.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagiusNecros
- Free-sequence ("open combo") weaponskills.
- Skill-altering oGCDs - Already present in NIN poison stances and DRG Life- and Power Surge, albeit minimally.
- Special/"named" Effects According to Sequence - already present in Mudra oGCDs, but now also through weaponskills, though perhaps still released through a CDed or resource-consuming oGCD, e.g. Twisting Dragon, Dragon Fang, (Battou), [Release], Ivy Cut -> <|Horizon's Divide|>
- Variable cleaves - Split damage, with bonus damage per mob to be hit, tapering off (perhaps while increasing TP costs up to double).
- Situational AoEs - Even "AoE" abilities may have additional, even single-target, uses.
- Stackable DoTs - Think "Ignite"... [a percentage of] the remaining potency from the last DoT is added to the new over the refreshed duration, while possibly retaining screenshotted additional effects and applying them to or stacking them with the new application's.
- Stackable Buffs - Already present in GL, but in this case aiming to achieve notable percentages of Haste or Crit, etc., for a specific rotational string.
- Sappable DoTs - DoT ticks are consumed by [certain] attacks, counting as increased damage on the attack itself.
- Mid-window Skills - After X seconds, deals a sappable DoT based on damage dealt over that duration, increasing vulnerability to your attacks until depleted. Releases, in themselves, function a lot like this.
- Specific Cooldown Manipulation - A stance that causes certain CDs to cool faster generally or from certain attacks or procs; using certain CDs affects others; direct synergy components between CDs.
- Potency as Mitigation - Attacking an enemy leaves diminishes its next attack against you by x damage or [modified] potency.
- Evasion or Deflection as tappable resource pools - a tactical, manipulable resource economy of parry and dodge.
- Mitigation as Damage Transfer - Continuing a portion or set potency of an enemy attack onto an enemy on the far side of you)
- Charge Systems - Carry three charges of a guaranteed parry skill, each with a 30-second cooldown. [Perhaps the more closely two charges are used to each other (within 15 seconds), the longer the latter charge's cooling takes.]
- Mixed Charge Systems - For instance, imagine if the above natural cooling supported only two charges, but another system was also consumable to power this ability when all charges are down, allowing potentially far more consecutive uses.
- Creating Resources through Weaponskills - Already present in Wrath/Abandon, but now more specific, e.g. <Blader> creates charges of [Steel Cage], consumable either for debilitation (unlocked via another Release) or mitigation (see above).
- Blink Strikes - Teleporting to the far, close, left, or right side of the enemy, or any mixture of the two, based on WASD/joystick commands mid-blink, during a specific attack.
- Ghosting - Enemies attacking you attack where you were for X seconds, or instead attack an afterimage or Decoy that you've left of yourself for up to X seconds or the unit's health. Possibly usable for dodging scripted cleaves.
- Weaponskill "Builds" - Each sequence of weaponskills builds a buff specific to that sequence, which in turn indirectly favors other sequences (perhaps even including the same sequence, to a specific/situational stacking point of that buff), allowing for macro-rotation.
- <I could do this all day...>
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05-01-2016, 12:34 PMMagiusNecros
All great idea's I'm sure and some stuff I'd love to see but as we've seen with AST/DRK/MCH most of which is a mish mash of already existing jobs and has one small job defining gimmick to set it apart from it's peers...can we honestly expect SAM or even RDM to be any different and in that aspect will they really be bringing unique mechanics in their kit to set them apart from every other job out there?
Because honestly after the 3.0 jobs I highly highly doubt that to be the case. I've seen many a forum poster on here have much grander idea's then what the devs have seen to throw at us. -
05-01-2016, 12:41 PMShurrikhanExpect? No. Need? Quite possibly.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagiusNecros
I'd also expect that if rehashes continue, subscriptions will further decline. But need they? No.
It's kinda sad, really. You're absolutely right that the devs seem much less willing to go for distinction or the fully fleshed out ideas than much of the community, even if our posts do often lack a skeleton. -
05-01-2016, 11:46 PMShinMetsu
Hello, I'd also like to give my 2 cents on this topic and my take of samurai and red mage as well as the concerns of having tanking classes.
I think most people would agree that Samurai and Red Mage are most likely to be added in 4.0, going by the comments that they don't want to add 3 classes at once, i guess we'd be left with that.
Now, what does this mean? DPS is the most popular role, and to me it feels like it currently lacks a bit in variety.
At the same time people are always concerned not having enough Tank roles.
But what of the healers? I see them being even more uncommon.
Frankly, i don't think the queues are horrible as a DPS even, on average i wait 5min for dungeon queues, which are probably the main concern.
So what if we add, say, a tank and a DPS. The Lackluster of healers will still be there.
And is adding a tank really going to solve the issues of too few tanks?
Is there even such a thing as a perfect balance between roles?
I think it's true that if they added Samurai as a tank, a lot of people would give it a try, naturally.
But how many of those people would actually switch from their DPS role to a tank role? I don't think too many, of course some would though.
Mostly i'd see current tanks switching to Samurai as a tank.
And Red Mage is so over the place, i don't even know where i would see it. Although i do have a most unexpected vision for it, in my own mind.
Personally I would like to see Samurai as a DPS, because my take on Samurai isn't tanky enough to actually be a tanking class.
I see Samurai being the ultimate killing machines. That is mostly what they are known for in my opinion. I don't think many people think of Samurai like "Oh, that guy could take a direct hit no problem"
And their weapons aren't even as durable, they are quite brittle.
Of course, some people are gonna be like "They don't block, they parry", but i'd stress it's more the deflecting type of parry too.
And i don't see that concept being very viable for those kind of tankbusters we got, like A5 Twinkledink's or Sephirot's tank busters, deflecting them doesn't seem effective or anywhere near a possibility to me.
Furthermore I don't see Samurai as being anything remotely close to magical or superhuman powers, I think of Samurai in a sense of how they are portrayed, simply masters of their very deadly art.
Even if they went with a parry concept Samurai tank, I'd think it to be really boring to be honest.
How would it differ from Warrior or Paladin even, that type of mitigation is like... no differnt from blocks to me.
All we see is a "Parry (-20%)" pop up on the screen, and i don't really care much whether it says Block or Parry to be honest.
And being up against non-physical oponents, Samurai tank sounds like it would be screwed as you simply can't parry magical attacks.
So, this picture is most undesireable to me from a tank's perspective.
Who knows what they could come up with, but as mentioned above, it wouldn't fall into the category of how i see samurais.
What i would like to see instead for a tank...
Give us something new, something interesting.
I'd like to see a 'Barrier' type of tank, a tank that puts up magical barriers for mitigation, similar to an Adoloqium's Galvanize shield.
Those shields could be tied to weapon skills for example, or the weapon skills could give you some sort of... 'swiftcast' buff to put up a shield at your leisure, or if off-tanking unleash a devastating magic attack.
I think that would be nothing like we've got already.
I haven't played XI's Runefencer, but i'd imagine it something along those lines, your attacks would directly or give the ability to put up barriers, buffs, unleash attacks, or whatever else.
Another possibity for this type of tank would be Red Mage considering it's trademark Phalanx which acts sort of like a Barrier.
So yeah, i'd like to see Samurai as a DPS. Red Mage i'm really undecided on.
But i don't think it would be horrible even if we got 2 DPS and no Tanks or Healers for 4.0.
Rather than just using Samurai as a means to get people to play Tank, keep it real to the lore and how Samurai are portrayed.
Keep the Jobs what they are, not what you need them to be.
Instead find a more suitable and interesting idea to fill the tanking position. -
05-02-2016, 12:27 AMReiryuu
Am I the only one kind of hoping he actually goes back and implements something he's said he wants to do for a very long time?
Hybrid classes-
I'm kind of sure that he said the earliest changes to DF/Raid compositions/Party comps/etc could be made was 4.0.
He's mentioned before that he likes the idea of a hybrid class system and increasing the party size.
What if we get 3-4 new hybrid type classes? Sam- DPS/Off Tank; RDM: DPS (melee with en-spells?)/Heal (TP heals?) Geomancer(?) Heal/ (Ranged/caster)DPS (maybe functions like RIFT's Chloromancer with small heals on dpsing?) *shrug* Not sure how he'd work them and since there's only 3 roles there's not very many combos lol. -
05-02-2016, 02:19 AMDWolfwoodRegardless of what jobs they choose to implement, they'll need to overcome this hurdle of creativity. In regards to Samurai, I think countering is the big thing that I imagine. Countering is something that is a major part of nearly every Final Fantasy game since I can remember, but is largely missing in XIV. Aside from that, I don't think every job needs to reinvent the wheel. Just look at all the DPS we have now and you'll see that there's not a whole lot of uniqueness to any single job if you examine them closely, but they can easily be defined by their playstyles.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagiusNecros
There are tons of great ideas the dev team misses that make me wonder who they have working for them sometimes, but I also think a lot of the great ideas here on the forums are not very practical. Even the idea that started this thread I think goes to the limits, but I still think it's within the realm of possibility to bring us two samurai jobs. It only hinges on whether they could be distinct, and samurai is nearly the only job that can easily be both at the same time because there is plenty to distinguish a "Shogun" job from a "Ronin."Quote:
I've seen many a forum poster on here have much grander idea's then what the devs have seen to throw at us.
I wouldn't jump to any conclusions just yet. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, they jokingly revealed that when they asked the dev team how it was making 3 jobs at once they said, "never again!" However, keep in mind that Ninja was released less than a year before 3.0, and SCH/SMN was released a year before NIN, so they had no time off in between considering they also said it takes 1 year to make a job. I think it's perfectly safe to assume they'll still add 3 jobs in the next expansion until they explicitly say otherwise. Remember that they've been working on the next set of jobs for already a year now, longer in the case of Samurai, and they still have another year to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinMetsu
This topic has been discussed throughout this thread, but basically, the big point to remember is: the first day of an expansion is when people are judging things the harshest, and this continues over the next month or two before things start to calm down. Releasing a tank during this time does in fact help the queue times with other jobs, and the benefit is two-fold when weighed against the option of not releasing one at all.Quote:
...is adding a tank really going to solve the issues of too few tanks?
Is there even such a thing as a perfect balance between roles?
I think it's true that if they added Samurai as a tank, a lot of people would give it a try, naturally.
But how many of those people would actually switch from their DPS role to a tank role? I don't think too many, of course some would though.
Mostly i'd see current tanks switching to Samurai as a tank.
I don't think anyone expects many long term converters to the tank role. Many hoped and tried to do that with DRK before realizing it was just too much for them. That said, I think people are still trying to, so to that extent, we're still seeing the benefits to our leveling queue. The same result could be expected with samurai for sure. There are going to be tons of people trying to level samurai, should it be a tank, that a lot will delay their leveling of it until the tank queues become instant for them again, which again benefits everyone. If you think adding a tank such as samurai wouldn't help queues at all, I say just look at the people who are still leveling DRK. People still love the concept of DRK and will continue to level it despite not wanting to tank.
There's an abundance of DPS jobs, more than healing and tanking combined, so there will never be a shortage of them in queues. Tank jobs make up only 3 out of the available 13, and they have to create more to keep that DF popping. Who wants to keep doing low content as a tank? Eventually they might have to address this, but for now I think we still need more jobs in the healing/tanking roles.
In regards to the endgame aspect of people switching to tank roles, well... If they hadn't released DRK, I can say it would be tougher on the community now than if they hadn't. Even giving tanks unique mounts doesn't entice enough players. In the case of SAM, I think it would cut into the WAR numbers, which right now is almost assuredly higher than PLD and DRK combined. So, there's that aspect.
"Lore" and "how samurai are portrayed" should honestly just be kept out of discussion. If you really want to get into it, I suggest reading what people have posted already. Samurai history can basically be divided into 3: their rise, reign, and fall. Up until their fall, they were extremely well armored on the battlefield and had a much higher chance of survival than the ashigaru, aka footsoldiers. If you're unclear what the ashigaru looked like, here's a picture of the armor they wore:Quote:
Rather than just using Samurai as a means to get people to play Tank, keep it real to the lore and how Samurai are portrayed.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...071a8f0230.jpg
Armies would use them for archers and as fodder to basically dwindle the enemy forces before sending in the heavily armored samurai. To be a samurai was a great honor and you were payed very well in exchange for your loyalty and service to one of the very wealthy lords. No lord had their samurai dressed in shitty armor, and surprise surprise, armor actually worked and they could shrug off arrows and the massive amounts of direct blows. This isn't some secret either that the media chooses to ignore, and if anyone thinks that only the Musashi/ronin-esque, off-the-battlefield samurai is represented in the media, the cause lies in what they're drawn to in media, not media itself.
I'm semi-hopeful that he'll go back to this, but he's seemed to change his position on the matter because he doesn't feel like messing with the DF standard. It's a big mess, and I think they realize that it is. Rather than spend time on the major changes, they're probably working up to it by making all the smaller changes that it needs, while shaping up the game around it as well, such as adding the jobs we want before adding the customization. Until we get the customization, I think the best we'll get are healers and tanks that can DPS and DPS with extensive support.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reiryuu
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05-02-2016, 04:19 AMShippuuSaying the role that has over twice the number of options as the other two available roles lacks variety comes off pretty badly. If only tanks and healers had 7 options each to choose from...Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinMetsu
Will adding new tanks fix all the problems? No. Will not adding new tanks help in any way? Absolutely not. Even if the overall population of tanks doesn't increase, it's a step in the right direction from their numbers actually decreasing. Also, 4 tanks to level means that tank players will ultimately spend more time in all those levelling dungeons as tanks providing more overall queue pops for more dps overall.Quote:
At the same time people are always concerned not having enough Tank roles.
But what of the healers? I see them being even more uncommon.
So what if we add, say, a tank and a DPS. The Lackluster of healers will still be there.
And is adding a tank really going to solve the issues of too few tanks?
Is there even such a thing as a perfect balance between roles?
I think it's true that if they added Samurai as a tank, a lot of people would give it a try, naturally.
But how many of those people would actually switch from their DPS role to a tank role? I don't think too many, of course some would though.
If it's between this and tank players quitting/changing to dps than it's still a positive thing.Quote:
Mostly i'd see current tanks switching to Samurai as a tank.
That's your opinion. In Final Fantasy games they have quite often been portrayed as staunch defenders of others. Especially when it comes to named characters who are Samurai. Cyan and Auron are both samurai archetypes, and both are bodyguards, protectors of others, and in Auron's case, have direct abilities that shield his allies. They have a long history in Final Fantasy games of having supportive capabilities. As opposed to Dark Knight who had virtually none and they still made that a tank. Samurai in Final Fantasy actually has tons of merit to playing a tank.Quote:
I see Samurai being the ultimate killing machines. That is mostly what they are known for in my opinion. I don't think many people think of Samurai like "Oh, that guy could take a direct hit no problem"
Weapon durability means jack all, it's a video game. Dark Knights somehow parry attacks with a 6 ft slab of metal. Warrior's are somehow capable of parrying all attacks from the front for 20s with an unwieldly greataxe. A Katana is far easier to parry attacks with than either of those two weapons.Quote:
And their weapons aren't even as durable, they are quite brittle.
Of course, some people are gonna be like "They don't block, they parry", but i'd stress it's more the deflecting type of parry too.
And i don't see that concept being very viable for those kind of tankbusters we got, like A5 Twinkledink's or Sephirot's tank busters, deflecting them doesn't seem effective or anywhere near a possibility to me.
You'd be wrong then, as in multiple Final Fantasy games Samurai have had magical abilities. Final Fantasy Tactic's Samurai summoned spirits from their katana. Final Fantasy XII's Mononofu scaled on magick attack. Tenzen from FFXI had a magical sword imbued with the fire of Phoenix. There's plenty of possibility and merit for Samurai to have a magical/spiritual aspect to them.Quote:
Furthermore I don't see Samurai as being anything remotely close to magical or superhuman powers, I think of Samurai in a sense of how they are portrayed, simply masters of their very deadly art.
Nothing stopping them from giving Samurai any kind of barrier or other forms of mitigation. Also nothing stopping them from giving them an ability that say, augments their sword with spiritual/magical energy which allows them to parry magical attacks. The idea of a samurai slicing through an incoming fireball or deflecting a laser beam is definitely within the style of samurai.Quote:
Even if they went with a parry concept Samurai tank, I'd think it to be really boring to be honest.
How would it differ from Warrior or Paladin even, that type of mitigation is like... no differnt from blocks to me.
All we see is a "Parry (-20%)" pop up on the screen, and i don't really care much whether it says Block or Parry to be honest.
And being up against non-physical oponents, Samurai tank sounds like it would be screwed as you simply can't parry magical attacks.
And then you suggest Runefencer from FFXI...And also imply you still want SAM as a dps which you earlier said dps was lacking variety. So...SAM tank is not new or interesting, but SAM dps apparently is?Quote:
What i would like to see instead for a tank...
Give us something new, something interesting.
You're welcome to think that, but objectively it's a bad idea.Quote:
But i don't think it would be horrible even if we got 2 DPS and no Tanks or Healers for 4.0.
As stated earlier, keeping them how they are portrayed in Final Fantasy (Which is where their portrayal matters most) means that they are a strong contender to be a tank and it would be more in line than how they turned DRK into a tank.Quote:
Rather than just using Samurai as a means to get people to play Tank, keep it real to the lore and how Samurai are portrayed.
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05-02-2016, 05:50 AMDerio
When DRK launched with HW there were nothing but "Need DPS" for the on duty. So it did help in a sense and did expand the tank population for a short time, and in the long run we have a slightly larger tank population. You also have to remember there are more dps classes than tank and healer classes combined.
SAM could be tank or dps. If it is a melee dps instead of tank, then obviously they would need to add a tank class that is unique and desireable to get the same outcome of players playing tank like they did with DRK. -
05-02-2016, 11:46 AMFyrmurlFloerasksyn
DPS please. I'd be pretty annoyed if tanks get yet another sword class. Us dps don't have a sword class yet, the closest is ninja's with their over sized daggers, but it's not the same. Oh and don't go crazy with the positional requirements. The last thing i want is another monk iike class lol
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05-02-2016, 12:08 PMReaperking386
I predict Samurai will be the dps class, but with a Tachi (two-handed sword) and a tank class Shogun (Wakizashi + Katana). As far as a healer class...I would say a seer or Oracle. Something that goes with the Samurai Style classes.
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05-02-2016, 12:50 PMDWolfwoodThat's pretty much what I want personally. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Reaperking386
Dual-katana Sam tank in heavy armor would look so awesome. -
05-02-2016, 08:55 PMHandheld
As someone who is kinda fresh to his drk and has also been working on a drg honestly iconic tank classes are desperately needed far more than iconic dps classes.
I can hop in duty finder and instantly find a group as a tank and run through it no problem. Hopping on dps however nearly quadruples the time i have to wait. As cool as a DPS Sam would be it would probably cause nothing but issues seeing as a ton of people would jump over to DPS and then the Que would be even more heavily skewed. I can honestly see DPS ques being double or even triple the amount of time they are now if Sam is released as a dps simply because its such an iconic class.
Having it as a tank would honestly drastically help out Duty finder and would thin the DPS herd a bit for awhile. -
05-02-2016, 09:31 PMXlantaa
The Samurai is one of the most liked classes in every game, because, let's say the truth, everyone loves katanas. I can tell you if the Samurai wear another kind of weapon, like a Kanabo, or Yari probably people pass and didn't bother on them. We will see a lot of people wearing katanas trying to glamour as their favourtie anime style character (eh, I have nothing agains this eh, I will be probably one of those...). Let's be honest here, is not that? :P (Of course, some people love the Samurai as is it, eh).
Also, if Samurai is a DPS, they will need REALLY put a tank class which people wants even more than Samurai to avoid DPS congest de DF, of we will have a DPS queues or 60 minutes (At least, the first weeks) and every roulette with a party with 2 Samurais. It happend on the ninja release.
Now, what tank can surpass the Samurai in people preferences? Blue mage not, Red mage not. They are popualr classes, but cannot surpass Samurai. In my opinion, Samurai tank will help to acelerate DPS queues at least the first weeks on release. After a tiem, all will return to normal, like always.