DEV REQUEST:DUEL/SPAR system

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

Yes, and the aesthetic of adventurers fighting monsters is very different from having them fight each other. You're obviously not bothered by it, I am, and I'm certainly not alone in this.

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Well, as Nalien so kindly amended for me:

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Originally Posted by Kikosho

Apparently a DRG fighting a 5th Cohort Secutor and a DRG fighting a MNK is vastly different with the latter being cancer to the eyes.

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http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/w/image...rt_Secutor.png
http://www.dpsvip.com/images/news/pugilist.JPG

Aesthetically, you're seeing two non-beastmen race individuals fighting against each other. Does it also displease you when we have to fight against non-beastmen in the MSQ, in Halatali, or against Hoary Boulder?

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Yet you guys refuse the superior solution that would be dueling servers.

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As I said before, then why not Triple Triad only servers? You and I acknowledged that TT can only be played in certain areas in the open world, quite similar to our proposal of only being able to duel in certain areas in the open world. To be honest, I'm flabbergasted that you seem to think your solution is "superior" when the negatives it will cause players far outweigh your "eww duels" mentality. But considering your view that a player losing 70 million gil and housing property is insignificant, we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

And if you haven't realized by now, I was being sarcastic about being annoyed by TT challenges. I simply say no and move on.

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Originally Posted by Kikosho

Aesthetically, you're seeing two non-beastmen race individuals fighting against each other. Does it also displease you when we have to fight against non-beastmen in the MSQ, in Halatali, or against Hoary Boulder?

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You racist! Beastmen have feelings too.
They might be mind controlled, but they're every bit as sentient as the other humanoids!

A duelling system would be fantastic, it's a bit of harmless fun! Yes put in an auto-decline feature for people who have no interest, issue solved easily. If you feel harassed, we have a blacklist option for a reason. We are not forcing you to PvP.

If you want another reason as to why many of us like being able to duel in the open world besides "it'll look cool", it adds the element of landscape into the mix. When you allow player skill to shine through because you can use more than just your job, but also your surroundings, awareness, and initiative, it tends to fix balancing issues. The walls in Wolves' Den are there for that exact reason. Many of us would like to see more than just walls and platforms in PvP serving this purpose, we want to be able to use the beautiful new areas of 3.0 that have been created to its full potential: becoming something that our character is actively involved with. You can argue that this is already possible with PvE, but there is a big difference as to how an AI works with the environment and how a playing character does. Monsters ignore their surroundings: they can unrealistically scale heights and move through objects like the world isn't even there. We want to feel more of a connection with Eorzea, and sending us into a Wolves' Den instance isn't going to help that. However I do understand people's complaints, and certain restrictions on where you can duel are necessary. Inside major cities should be off-limits (Unless the Coliseum in Uldah finally gets a use), we don't need people fighting in front of the Marketboard ^^;. All that being said, I'd be willing to sacrifice open world duelling for an instanced version if the majority of the community is truly against it. The Devs could even make the arenas look like certain portions of a map like they do with class quests. That would also be great, we could still look epic in the Sea of Clouds and everyone is happy.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

You racist! Beastmen have feelings too.
They might be mind controlled, but they're every bit as sentient as the other humanoids!

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I love all those fabulous creatures, they are useful training dummies.

yoshi please give us ghe duel system.

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Originally Posted by Hypie

PvP Balance Whiners ruined everything.

So NO to Duelling and NO to any PvP related Stuff. Im really happy that PvP in XIV is more like joke than a serious Corner of the Game.

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The changes they've make to classes / skills in pvp don't effect classes in pve.

Some Examples:
Regen and Medica II can't be stacked.
All Stuns, sleeps and binds have a reduced duration
Bard Damage is affected by distance from target (too close and your damage is low, too far and your damage is low, in the sweet spot your damage is max)
Summoners can't resurrect people
etc.

Dueling is fun—and whether its balanced or not—players sometimes want to beat on their friends (or make new ones so so they can beat on them too).
I'm all for it. I don't think it should be allowed in main city states though. Seems too crowded.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

Gonna have to say no, because after the whining that is the wow forums on "x class is op", I'm glad to not see it here.

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This, so many times! Even with pvp-only Actions, sooner or later people would start to whine about how monks are powerful, that paladin Pacification skill or whatever they find """unfair""".

Here's an idea: Ignore it. Whining about whiners is twice as useless. Don't let other people's complaining get in the way of a new feature in the game. If Square Enix deem that rebalancing should happen for duels, so be it. But not wanting more things in game because it might be an eye-sore on the forums is silly. The best you can do is offer suggestions here in order to make it as good a feature that caters to as many people as possible.

Yes on open world. Totally agree. But not in the cities though.

People are afraid of PvP even when this kind of PvP can't hurt anyone. It's selfish.
I don't PvP much but a system like that can be useful for training and improving a job/skill. And for fun, of course.

But it seems that there are not many players who know what is fun with PvP, especially when this remains optional and isn't necessary at all.

As I said before: it's all about fear and selfishness to refuse this kind of PvP system.
The E-pen argument is not really viable since we can see this on PvE. (simple example : hello tanks who fight for keep hate with dps or other tanks)
In fact, I don't see any viable "against arguments" around here. But well, matter of taste and opinion anyway.

How about no and no.

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Originally Posted by bettomendes

This, so many times! Even with pvp-only Actions, sooner or later people would start to whine about how monks are powerful, that paladin Pacification skill or whatever they find """unfair""".

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Lol this is already done in the pvp section of the forums from time to time. Reason why you probably didn't notice it before is because its done in the pvp section of the forms,

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Originally Posted by bettomendes

This, so many times! Even with pvp-only Actions, sooner or later people would start to whine about how monks are powerful, that paladin Pacification skill or whatever they find """unfair""".

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Again, this already occurs in the PvP section and you're seemingly completely oblivious to it. Not only that but SE does not take PvP into account when balancing PvE. You're none the wiser to this now, why would you be with duels?

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

But I also want PVP to stay in its box.

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Ignoring how condescending this sounds, I already pointed out issues with that, didn't I?

If you have a few select venues where people can duel, then PvPers will gather in those areas to duel and it's likely one will be more popular than the other just out of convenience. That means our dueling venue will have a fair amount of people crowding the area fighting, creating lag and other issues. Why should we suffer that inconvenience (and lag is a major inconvenience in PvP...) just because a handful of people see some massive difference between a DRG fighting a 5th Cohort Secutor and a DRG fighting a MNK? Fighting in a box works for instances where it would just be two people, but again we don't want instances. Shoving every PvPer into one ring would just be absurd, imagine every boxer/wrestler/whatever in a single ring. The zone would have to be massive, though given how unused the open world is in this game that still seems like it would just be a waste to make an extra one. What do you honestly care if two people are dueling out in the wilderness? How often do you actually visit such places? Even someone actually leveling, rather than sitting at camp waiting for queues/PF would only see such duels in passing. It's not like it would be something that would be in your face that you're forced to watch, in fact I'd imagine most would initially mistake duels for some form of Levequest, seeing as some of them pit us against humanoid enemies... Unless you're interested enough to sit around and watch, how would it really affect you?

The only issue here is people not wanting to see duels, and that is frankly an absurd complaint. We've covered how balance isn't an issue. We've covered how PvE players could be kept out of the loop with various restrictions. There is no issue here other than "I don't want to see duels !", and that is something which simply cannot be taken seriously. It's the complaint of a child, everyone has things they don't want to see, but most of us past the age of 10 tend to realize that the world doesn't revolve around us and other people might enjoy things we don't.

Someone, please, just give me a detailed run down of how two people dueling (not getting you involved, because of the restrictions suggested) would somehow ruin your day. Are you perhaps doing Ixali Dailies and you see two people dueling as you leave Revenant's Toll? Does that 3 seconds of witnessing a duel sour your entire day? I am honestly interested in what the big issue is with just seeing duels taking place, although so far only two or three people even seem to have that issue.

"boohoo, I can't win against a Bard! NERF BARDS!"

Patch 3.1: "Bard DMG was nerfed for -20%. Aditionally, they have to stand still now to activate ANY skill. Wanderers Minuet has been taken out of the game."

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Not interested. Duels make everything worse, because people start to campare and asks for nerf destroiyng any balance every game ever had.

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Originally Posted by Talec

"boohoo, I can't win against a Bard! NERF BARDS!"

Patch 3.1: "Bard DMG was nerfed for -20%. Aditionally, they have to stand still now to activate ANY skill. Wanderers Minuet has been taken out of the game."

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Not interested. Duels make everything worse, because people start to campare and asks for nerf destroiyng any balance every game ever had.

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Could you please actually read the thread, rather than just jumping in with a knee-jerk reaction? PvP is balanced completely separately from PvE in this game, PvP balance is never going to impact your PvE gameplay. Complaints about various Jobs already occur in the PvP section and you're completely oblivious to them, why would you suddenly suffer them with duels when you're currently completely unaware of them? Such complaints already happen. They already don't impact PvE balance. Duels wouldn't change a single damned thing in that regard.

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Originally Posted by Kikosho

To be honest, I'm flabbergasted that you seem to think your solution is "superior" when the negatives it will cause players far outweigh your "eww duels" mentality. But considering your view that a player losing 70 million gil and housing property is insignificant, we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

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Another thing I didn't think of last night; Separate servers is just segregation. I happen to have plenty of friends who aren't interested in PvP, should they have to move to a PvP server when they're not interested in PvP? So now I'm losing over 70m gil and potentially a good chunk of my friendslist. Housing issues would be rare since not everyone owns one (or two), I'll admit, but I imagine plenty of PvPers have friends who simply wouldn't need/want to move server for duels. A new server for duel requests is simply a bad solution. It's a lot of hassle and inconveniences a lot of people, considering it's only a solution to protect a couple peoples precious virgin eyes from witnessing two people dueling...

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Again, this already occurs in the PvP section and you're seemingly completely oblivious to it. Not only that but SE does not take PvP into account when balancing PvE. You're none the wiser to this now, why would you be with duels?

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Originally Posted by Gooner_iBluAirJGR

Lol this is already done in the pvp section of the forums from time to time. Reason why you probably didn't notice it before is because its done in the pvp section of the forms,

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Just proved my point. I don't have any interest in pvp whatsoever and if it was up to me it wouldn't even exist in this game. So, my opinion on this topic is no to duels as well.

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Originally Posted by bettomendes

Just proved my point. I don't have any interest in pvp whatsoever and if it was up to me it wouldn't even exist in this game. So, my opinion on this topic is no to duels as well.

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Your point was that you don't want that whining, but you're already completely ignorant of that whining. In effect it doesn't even exist for you, because it is only something the PvP community has to deal with and it in no way impacts your game play.

You are effectively saying no to something because it will create issues that you will never have to deal with... By all means you're entitled to your opinion, but that seems like a pretty silly justification against duels. The complaints already happen and they already don't impact your life in the slightest, you don't even see them, so what is your issue with them?

Were PvE and PvP balanced together -rather than separately -you'd have a point, but as it stands you're effectively just saying no to say no. You're welcome to say that, of course, but it isn't really a strong argument. This game wasn't designed specifically for you, it was designed to cater to a broad selection of people, and PvP content is a part of that. The fact that PvP content already exists and its workings and discussions have gone completely over your head should be a good thing for you; This game has PvP and it hasn't impacted your PvE experience at all. How is that a bad thing? The inclusion of PvP does nothing to PvE, your argument effectively just comes off as "I don't like it so nobody should" with that in mind, again; Not really a strong argument. If you don't like PvP so much, why don't you just continue ignoring it? Is its just being there harming you in anyway? Just continue not visiting the PvP subsection and the "whining" you're concerned about will continue to not be a thing.

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Originally Posted by bettomendes

Just proved my point. I don't have any interest in pvp whatsoever and if it was up to me it wouldn't even exist in this game. So, my opinion on this topic is no to duels as well.

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But you know, you're not alone and some people have an interest on PvP. It's like Triple Triad, some people wanted to see TT game, some don't.

This PvP system will change nothing about PvE. And of course you're here for saying "no" without understand the actual PvP system.

Obviously it's your opinion, it's okay, but it adds nothing to the topic after all.

I would prefer them spending time improving the pvp that's already here. Like something to revive wolve's den and secure.
1v1 just isn't very exciting for me.

I want guild wars (outside of cities!) too! =D

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Originally Posted by Mutemutt

I would prefer them spending time improving the pvp that's already here. Like something to revive wolve's den and secure.
1v1 just isn't very exciting for me.

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Wolves' Den adjustments are actually already planned for 3.1 and 3.2 IIRC.

Honestly though, duels wouldn't take a great deal of effort to implement, virtually all the frame work is already in place thanks to content like Levequests and Triple Triad. Certainly an easy thing to implement than an additional Frontlines mode, which is what we're getting in 3.0, new map and all.

Sigh..this thread. Ok duel/sparring enthusiasts, let me ask you this. If you were to duel a bard or black mage as ANYTHING what would happen?, better yet what are two tanks gonna do?, stand there and wack each other until one drops?, this is not like other MMO's it is more like a turn based game if anything.

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Originally Posted by Onikimaru

Sigh..this thread. Ok duel/sparring enthusiasts, let me ask you this. If you were to duel a bard or black mage as ANYTHING what would happen?, better yet what are two tanks gonna do?, stand there and wack each other until one drops?, this is not like other MMO's it is more like a turn based game if anything.

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Doesn't matter. Duels aren't meant to be perfectly balanced or equal across-the-board.

I can say with confidence that I believe I could beat every class with my MNK easily except for MRD :/ hehe

Tanks can hold their own seriously well... so can any BLM who understands their CC potential & manipulating the DR. All jobs perform quite well if used correctly, truly.

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Originally Posted by Yuri_Hyuga

I can say with confidence that I believe I could beat every class with my MNK easily except for MRD :/ hehe

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Exactly, but sorry to say, dragoon would destroy you as the DRG burst is way to strong for a monk. Again SE would have done this from the start if it were a good idea. It's just to much man power to do something like this when pretty much every duel is one sided. but hey, if they could change the way it works, specifically in dueling, i am all for it.

Every single class in this game can hold their own against the next. You just need to adjust your play style and get gud. It's the same for PvE. But once again, we aren't asking for rebalancing, we simply want a duel feature. It doesn't have to reward anything. Take a look at any other MMO where there was a rewardless duel system, no one cared what class versed what, most examples didn't even require the duellers to be the same level but it was still fun. Absolutely harmless fun that won't impact the guy who doesn't like PvP. Causing "server lag" is just ridiculous considering people out there doing PvE are generating just as much. Do we ask people to stop doing hunts or fates? No, please continue to your hearts content! Play the game how you want to play it, we have raiders, crafters, gatherers, casuals, and even PvPers.

Side note: if duels were to be put into the game it may even encourage those people who don't like to PvP to participate in it because they have the opportunity to practice fighting another player before being thrown into a team based setting like Frontlines/wolves den. They can overcome some of the pressure and fear of under performing which is a big reason why many don't do it (Also true for raiding). This could even help the current lengthy queue issues by having more people want to get involved. We expect people to research and practice for Coil, why not pvp? I say bring it on, duels are great for so many reasons and the cons are very few and the ones listed in this thread don't even make much sense.

Guys if you read this from page one to the one you see the same recycled arguments against it. You can not argue with close minded people. Someone suggested a poll. Put it on Twitter if it isn't there already then post results after HW comes out because I'm sure these New frontline maps will be worthless to enticing active PvP after the freshness dissipates.

As far as a reason to not put it in. There isn't one. Reason to put it in? People want it. Resource argument? I understand. They added desynth that is nothing but fluff and rarely used outside of swimsuits. But I see no out cry about that. I'm confused. Btw you guys know you can turn off effects of other players? Its amazing I know. Seriously though. Let this die or bring a real argument up.

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Originally Posted by CarmenSandiego

Every single class in this game can hold their own against the next. You just need to adjust your play style and get gud. It's the same for PvE. But once again, we aren't asking for rebalancing, we simply want a duel feature

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No not every class can hold it's own. A bard could just run away, black mages and summoners get cast interruptions, tanks basically have immortality with proper use of CD's. And as i said, why would they add this to the game when it causes more issues than it would solve?

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Originally Posted by Onikimaru

No not every class can hold it's own. A bard could just run away, black mages and summoners get cast interruptions, tanks basically have immortality with proper use of CD's. And as i said, why would they add this to the game when it causes more issues than it would solve?

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Serious question is this your first mmo? Please name me a mmo with balanced PvP that has the trinity system? I'll wait. Fact is there isn't one. The cool thing about duels it's for people who want to test themselves. If you want a fair fight play the same job as your opponent or better yet go play call of duty. Think of this more like a mini game than respectable PvP.

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Originally Posted by LTEvil

Serious question is this your first mmo? Please name me a mmo with balanced PvP that has the trinity system? I'll wait. Fact is there isn't one. The cool thing about duels it's for people who want to test themselves. If you want a fair fight play the same job as your opponent or better yet go play call of duty. Think of this more like a mini game than respectable PvP.

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AGAIN, why would they use dueling for something so trivial as practice for frontlines? or just pvp in general, and yes you're right about the unbalance in PvP in most MMO's but this isn't most MMO's, the classes here are based on team objective. If you haven't noticed that trend going through the main..story i don't know what else to tell you.

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Originally Posted by Onikimaru

AGAIN, why would they use dueling for something so trivial as practice for frontlines? or just pvp in general, and yes you're right about the unbalance in PvP in most MMO's but this isn't most MMO's, the classes here are based on team objective. If you haven't noticed that trend going through the main..story i don't know what else to tell you.

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Wait what? Most mmo is not about TEAM PLAY? Omg someone tell wow rift star wars tera eve ro eq and and you get it? Why would they add hunts for something as trivial as vanity And cute side things. Why add gold saucer. That's trivial right? Wait people asked for these things? How dare they ask for things like they pay to play...wait...yeah

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Originally Posted by Onikimaru

AGAIN, why would they use dueling for something so trivial as practice for frontlines?

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I'd just like to isolate this part of your statement. A lot of the people asking for this, (myself included), don't even participate in the frontlines PvP. And out of all the others who want this that do participate in frontlines, most are asking for this for the purpose of having fun in one on one combat with friends or rivals, not as "practice" for the current PvP. Just because content has the same general classification of PvP or PvE doesn't mean that it's wanted for the same purposes. People don't run dungeons for the same reason they fish, though both would technically be classified as PvE since you are working against the computer in both situations......

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Originally Posted by LTEvil

Wait what? Most mmo is not about TEAM PLAY? Omg someone tell wow rift star wars tera eve ro eq and and you get it? Why would they add hunts for something as trivial as vanity And cute side things. Why add gold saucer. That's trivial right? Wait people asked for these things? How dare they ask for things like they pay to play...wait...yeah

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Hunts are not for just vanity(you must have only just come back to the game if you think that), and you're talking about the B ranks, the smallest form of hunts that there is, and one that re-used assets that are already in the game currently. Point of the last statement is that it was so easily implemented because it was re-using assets. Gold saucer was something yoshi-p wanted to add from the beginning, not just because people wanted it. The gold saucer doesn't even have that big of a scope(in the area design yes)the mini games however are so small in comparison to the team objective that is chocobo racing.

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Originally Posted by Gamer3427

I'd just like to isolate this part of your statement. A lot of the people asking for this, (myself included), don't even participate in the frontlines PvP. And out of all the others who want this that do participate in frontlines, most are asking for this for the purpose of having fun in one on one combat with friends or rivals

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So it would be fun for your friend to get slaughtered every single time would it?. That's also fine that people just want it for fun but this is not a small thing, infact it's a pretty darn huge project, not to mention them needing to fix it constantly along with adding more features. Then dealing with complaints, then dealing with more complaints and so on and so forth.

wow

why does the FF player base hate dueling so much? o.o

I think duels/sparring would be a nice addition to the wolves den area, long as it has no actual "relevance" to pvp exp and ranking. 4v4+ design for pvp rank/exp/reward is perfectly fine imho. If they decided to make single or even doubles relevant pvp im afraid it would lead to WoW like issues involving overall balance, I should say said zone should also "implement" the current ilvl restrictions while participating in said duel/spar-session though. (i.e ilvl 80 cap as is the current cap, but allow the benefits of the pvp gear to apply, you know for science :P)
So i guess im all for it in good fun, but i do not want to see it become relevant to the point it causes balance issues everywhere else just for the sake of 1v1.

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Originally Posted by Onikimaru

That's also fine that people just want it for fun but this is not a small thing, infact it's a pretty darn huge project, not to mention them needing to fix it constantly along with adding more features. Then dealing with complaints, then dealing with more complaints and so on and so forth.

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They wouldn't need to "fix" it constantly, or "add new features". Anything that would be broken in it would already be broken in the normal PvP/PvE, which they would already be in the process of fixing, IE: no extra work there. As for adding new features, what exactly would they have to add? People don't want some new "specially balanced" combat system to be implemented for dueling. We just want the current combat situation but in a way where we can privately play against each other. It wouldn't be a "huge project" by any means. Even if they instanced it as some of the people against it want, it would be as simple as creating a two man instance where players can target each other as enemies. They could even just reuse the arena from either the Hydra Trial, or the Ultros fight from the Hildebrand quest line. It might not be something they could just throw together over night, but it's not like it's something they would have to devote months of development time into as you seem to think......

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Originally Posted by Onikimaru

So it would be fun for your friend to get slaughtered every single time would it?.

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First of all, you seem to really underestimate the way classes are balanced in this game. Each one has it's own strengths and weaknesses. Some will almost certainly prove to be better for dueling, but that's unavoidable. The only way to "perfectly balance" something would be to force everyone to play the exact same class. Even games that are built solely around PvP such as FPSs aren't perfectly balanced, as they offer slight differences which theorycrafters always determine that "this varient is the best and if you use anything else you're bad". Guess what? People aren't all focused on Min/Maxing. People will ultimately play what they want. Not to mention that if you're dueling a friend, then if you're just constantly "slaughtering" them, then they are either constantly working to better themselves so that you can't do so, or they stop dueling you after a few failed attempts. Then there's the fact that two friends can always enter as the same class to see which of them is better at it, or to compare their rotations. Either way, if friends are still dueling after the first attempt, then they're clearly still enjoying it. The same can be said for any content in any game ever. Win or lose, you keep playing something either because you enjoy it, or because you're wanting to get better and feel that it's challenging you to do so......

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Could you please actually read the thread, rather than just jumping in with a knee-jerk reaction? PvP is balanced completely separately from PvE in this game, PvP balance is never going to impact your PvE gameplay. Complaints about various Jobs already occur in the PvP section and you're completely oblivious to them, why would you suddenly suffer them with duels when you're currently completely unaware of them? Such complaints already happen. They already don't impact PvE balance. Duels wouldn't change a single damned thing in that regard.

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That's - sad as it is - bullshit. I'm playing MMORPGs for 15 years now (probably longer than you *jerkmode on*) from the beginnings of Ultima Online to these days. I have seen what duel comparisons did to all the games outside. The reason why they don't affect us now, is because a maybe sloppy 3% of the playerbase do PvP. It's suche a smale whining scale, that nobody cares.
But once you can't walk through Mor Dhona without getting 50 Duel Requests and people try it out and getting beaten ans start to compare the classes in one on one situations, every second thread in here will be a whining thread "why is XY so strong! boohoo, nerf him!" and SE is forced to do something.

Seriously, this is like reading out of a book:

"Apocalypse - whe beginning of the end
Once upon a time, a duel-function got into the game..."

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Originally Posted by raelgun

You have not been PVEing in raiding much have you, the competitiveness in PVE raiding is pretty high, and people use item level to the same affect, I have always found the PVE crowd to contain less honourable players then PVP ones in my experience and I come from a WoW hard mode raiding background with WOL rankings at current content at the time and a few PVP ranked titles but those are nothing special.

I have also completed PVE content in this game too with a T13 clear, and with the experience in both elements, PVE players are much much worse are the whining then PVP players.

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I have never seen anything like that until now o,o And if they really bitch around who has the longest epeen...i shrug it off and say "immature brats..."

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Originally Posted by Nalien

How about that time in the MSQ where Hoary Boulder literally challenged us to a duel?

Still a boss fight, but the point is that the precedent has been set in the MSQ. People Duel in Eorzea.

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Sorry to jump back to this, but this quest (and the level 5 FATE in Central Thanalan 'Something to Prove' where a failed adventurer challenges you to a 'duel'), actually do not prove one on one duelling can fit into ARR's lore - in fact, it proves the opposite. Hoary Boulder and Coultunet challenge you to that duel because you are more than just a lowly adventurer like they are, you are the Warrior of Light, the Champion of Eorzea - they aspire to be like you (like many npc adventurers) and want to test their mettle against you (and are soon put in their place), admitting they have a lot of training to get to your level. Unlike you, they are not special, they do not even have the Echo apparently, but have the resolve to make Eorzea a better place by following in your footsteps. Put simply, beating other adventurers up 'for the lulz' is simply beneath someone of your talents.

The FATE though is a little different - the npc in that was stated as being at the other end of the spectrum, a failed adventurer who had been constantly knocked back membership at various Guilds, and became so depressed, in a misguided attempt to rebuild her shatter sense of worth, she resorted to challenging other adventurers to duels, which was little more than picking fights with them, an act that the FATE description naturally didn't seem to treat too kindly. Meaning duelling between adventurers is actually regarded as being shameful in Eorzea.

Hence, for both these lore reasons, 1x1 PvP simply does not fit story wise - your character is too far up on the moral high ground to lower themselves to beating up more average adventurers simply to flout said strength. Or at least, that's what it seems to me.

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Originally Posted by KarmaCha

wow

why does the FF player base hate dueling so much? o.o

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For lack of a better word the simple answer is this game has the most carebear player population of any mmo. Most ff players are VERY pve/rp/story centric people and most of them are here exactly because they hate pvp so much they don't like most other mmo's that provide a much more robust pvp system. So any talk of any kind of pvp in ff brings out the fear factor 10 fold in them. They don't like anything that would be considered "aggressive" type of play. So even something as simple as adding dueling truly frightens them and ruins their sense of "safety". I know this because i consider myself more of a carebear than a pvp type player myself so i know what they are thinking. However I see no problem with dueling/pvp as long as the game doesn't require me in any way shape or form to have to be involved in it. Honestly that's really my only grip with pvp in mmo's, when it starts to turn into a " if i don't pvp i can't progress my character" situation OR "if i don't pvp i can't get the best gear" that's a problem in my book. As long as it's a separate entity and i can choose whether or not i want to be involved in it such as battle grounds/dueling ect.. I have no issue with it and in fact sometimes enjoy it.

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Originally Posted by Talec

But once you can't walk through Mor Dhona without getting 50 Duel Requests and people try it out and getting beaten ans start to compare the classes in one on one situations, every second thread in here will be a whining thread "why is XY so strong! boohoo, nerf him!" and SE is forced to do something.

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Jesus Christ, please stop making me repeat myself;

WE HAVE SUGGESTED NUMEROUS WAYS IN WHICH PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT INTERESTED IN DUELS CAN BE KEPT OUTSIDE THE LOOP.

Locking duels behind a quests. If you haven't done the quest, people can't send you challenges.
Locking duels behind a minimum PvP Rank. You don't have Rank 10? Nobody can challenge you to a duel. Do you really think some asshat is going to run around demanding you reach Rank 10 PvP in order to 1v1 you?
Locking them behind an opt-in process, like the Friendslist. If you don't opt-in, nobody can send you a duel request.

Please do explain how you're going to get spammed with requests with such restrictions in place. Better yet, how about you explain why, if complaining about balance became a thing (even though it already is), it would even affect you, because, once again; PvP is balanced separately for PvE. People already complain about Job balance in PvP to some degree. SE already doesn't balance PvE around those complaints, they balance PvP around those complaints (Clerics Stance stills works in PvE, right?). Those complaints are already limited to the PvP subsection and would not suddenly migrate to the General Discussion. Seriously, when issues with PvP balance already do not affect PvE in the slightest, what makes you think duels will suddenly change that? All of the PvP balance threads get put in the PvP section, where you'll never see them. Quite a few PvP threads even get moved there. SE still wont listen to PvP balance requests and change PvE because of it though, because that isn't how they've set up PvP in this game. Why is it so hard to get this point through your collective skulls? Summoner still gets Resurrect outside PvP. White Mage/Scholar still get Clerics Stance. Bard doesn't have to find a certain distance from their enemy to maximize damage, etc. etc.

PvP balance does not affect PvE balance. The two are balanced separately because the developers have a few more brain cells than most MMO developers. Why would they change this because of duels? It was a brilliant idea to balance both separately and duels, in no way, would cause them to change that concept.

Jesus Christ this is getting old... Sorry for the caps and if that came off as a tad harsh, but yeah... I am fucking sick of people out right ignoring the points made, read the bleedin' thread. Stop acting like PvP content will destroy PvE balance when that is absolute bullshit.

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Originally Posted by Talec

The reason why they don't affect us now, is because a maybe sloppy 3% of the playerbase do PvP. It's suche a smale whining scale, that nobody cares.

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The reason it doesn't affect you now is because PvP is balanced separately from PvE, but I'm curious... If only a "sloppy" 3% of the playerbase do PvP... What makes you think duels would skyrocket that number to a significant point that PvP balance complaints suddenly start impacting PvE? To me, "Not a lot of people PvP" translates to "Not a lot of people would be interested in duels", which just makes all of the complaints in this thread even more pathetic. People will be dueling everywhere and spamming requests (since I bet someone is going to ignore the suggested restrictions again)? Well that simply wont happen because not a lot of people PvP. Duels will cause so much lag? Not if only 3% are interested in PvP and they're spread out across the map. Duels will be a blight on the landscape? Same answer as before.

Why would duels suddenly turn enough people into PvPers to the point where PvP balance threads become more numerous and continue to only affect PvP balance?

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Hence, for both these lore reasons, 1x1 PvP simply does not fit story wise - your character is too far up on the moral high ground to lower themselves to beating up more average adventurers simply to flout said strength. Or at least, that's what it seems to me.

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What about Ul'dah? They have a culture pretty heavily rooted in duels. The Coliseum, where a certain someone made his claim to fame, also came back up in the Hildibrand quest arc where we were, go figure, going to duel random people until someone crashed the opera duel. Halatali (Hard) which was basically "PvP, the dungeon". People in Eorzea fight each other, deal with it. There is no lore reason not to have duels where there are so many examples of such culture throughout Eorzea.

Heck, your point that we're "too far up on the moral high ground" is completely absurd considering PvP already exists... How do you explain Wolves' Den or Frontlines in that context? We're already going around beating up fellow adventurers to flout our strength... What's the big difference between 1v1 and 4v4 from a lore standpoint? There isn't one.

We all know pvp players doesn't want duels to be just duels left alone. As an example, i would rather that ADS mount be locked behind completing Coil a million times than any pvp related stuff.
Just my opinion, as always.