What cause players to quit Final Fantasy XIV A Realm Reborn

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Originally Posted by Twinner

I'm cancelling my account within 30 days of subscribing because I ran out of quests to level. I know there are quests out there, but I work full time and I don't want the couple of hours I have each night to play spent on searching for things to do and running halfway across the world to get to them. I also didn't realize what the leve allowance meant and now it means I will have to wait a few days for my chocobo, something I'm just not willing to do, when I can just as easily go over to SWTOR or even... shiver... WoW and be able to find something to do constantly without downtime or lengthy travel times. Poorly designed game in many respects.

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You do the exact same thing in SWTOR..I fail to see the complaint here.

I'm not renewing my sub because of lack of competition, boring stats, easy game play and forced casual play.

But most importantly, because it plays like a single player RPG. It seems like all the MMO aspect of it is gone.

I also think that the changes to some of the jobs like BLM, BRD, DRG during launched probably contributed somewhat. They're such a major part of the game and many people simply could not adjust to it ... or like it.

Though for me the vertical progression in terms of gear has bored me. I'll continue to sub after taking a small break here and there though. But subbing for months on end and enjoying it throughout is gone.

I'm mostly around for the story and side stories

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Originally Posted by WinterSolstice

No, those problems don't cause people to quit. The problem is today's gamers want everything now, and don't understand that spending far too much time in a game to get all those shiny new things as soon as they can actually tires them out from the game. They are essentially children and don't have any self-control because of it. Then, after they plow through everything in the game that's interesting, the bitch about how there isn't enough to keep them interested.

Want to enjoy the game more, and elongate its lifespan? Pace yourself, be patient, and try to stop with the modern-day gaming mindset.

Just my opinion, ofc.

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Even as a hardcore gamer myself, this frustrates me sometimes. There seems to be a mentality nowadays that if you don't like something or have simply become bored with it for whatever reason, then everyone else must be too. I recently burned myself after grinding my crafts from early 20s to 50. So I just took a few days off, and will probably take a few more, what with Blade and Soul coming out. No big deal. I know if I keep playing for 8-10 hours a day, I'll run out of things to do. That's not the game's fault.

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Originally Posted by Twinner

I'm cancelling my account within 30 days of subscribing because I ran out of quests to level. I know there are quests out there, but I work full time and I don't want the couple of hours I have each night to play spent on searching for things to do and running halfway across the world to get to them. I also didn't realize what the leve allowance meant and now it means I will have to wait a few days for my chocobo, something I'm just not willing to do, when I can just as easily go over to SWTOR or even... shiver... WoW and be able to find something to do constantly without downtime or lengthy travel times. Poorly designed game in many respects.

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There are more ways to level in this game than quests. I would encourage you to try them out. :) There are FATEs, dungeons, levels 1-50 have a hunting log, and the challenge log. Don't forget to do your daily leveling roulette for some great exp!

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Originally Posted by WinterSolstice

No, those problems don't cause people to quit. The problem is today's gamers want everything now,

Just my opinion, ofc.

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you win :3 hit the nail on the head perfectly lol they complain it takes to long when its to easy to get they complain.. i feel sory for game designers cant win whatever they do

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Originally Posted by Raxion

Sounds like this isn't the MMO for you. The problem isn't the game, it's your outlook and opinion.

Job System: I think the class system is far from boring, and well designed. In any other MMO, I'd have to go make a new character any time I wanted to try a new job. Fortunately, that's not the case with FFXIV.
Must of not played many Older MMOs then. RIFT, SWG both had multi classing.

Combat: Last I checked, sleep, bind, stun, and silence were in the game. Those are definitely forms of crowd control. I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say "skill chains", unless you're talking about FFXI's skillchain system. While I liked it in FFXI, there's just no way it'd work in FFXIV.
Most bosses are Immune to all of these things.

Zodiac Weapons: Your relic questline is optional. It wasn't meant to be completed in a couple of weeks. If you don't have the time or desire to finish your relic upgrade, then just get the soldiery weapon. If you want it, work for it. If you don't see it worth it, don't.
Most people don't, its not worth it. There is little to gain from doing it. The weapons are a total waste of time, and have no special effects to improve your character.

Raiding: I don't see a problem with the raiding. It's very unforgiving, granted, but it should be. WoW has watered down the raiding scene to the point of bosses practically giving you loot just for showing up. That's not how this game's raiding works. You learn the fights and how to deal with the mechanics, or you fail until you do. You shouldn't beat the boss if you're consistently messing up.
Raiding is just a DPS check, there is nothing special about it anymore. Its unforgiving because most people don't make that DPS check, its a pretty steep one.

Weekly Lockout: Show me one good P2P MMORPG that doesn't have a weekly lockout on their highest-tier endgame content. It's part of the genre. You do your weekly raids, then wait until next week to do more. You're not going to escape weekly lockouts no matter what MMORPG you go to.
EQ2/EQ1 Progression Servers are P2P MMOs and do not have weekly lockouts on their contested dungeons.

If you really aren't having fun with the game and it's current state, why not just stop for now? Come back later and see if it's more to your liking.

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The person involved doesn't seem to speak english that well, but I will defend them for their word. They are right honestly.

Wait.. this is from 2014.. Who is the Necromancer?

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Originally Posted by Codek

What cause players to quit Final Fantasy XIV A Realm Reborn

-They spent 300+ hours playing the game


It kind of has that effect on people.

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This right here, people rush into the game burn themselves out because they want it all done now.

Then they sit on game bored with nothing to do instead of taking breaks.

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Originally Posted by Spawnie

you win :3 hit the nail on the head perfectly lol they complain it takes to long when its to easy to get they complain.. i feel sory for game designers cant win whatever they do

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False. A satisfying core gameplay loop can have people coming back for the exact same thing for hours and hours, even with zero or minimal progression. Just look at TF2, LoL, DotA2, CS:GO, or any of the huge number of rogue-lites that rack up hundreds of hours apiece.

Satisfying core gameplay is the one thing XIV sorely lacks, and it's the reason it will not have the longevity it expects.

Everything in this game relies on novelty to be interesting. That novelty wears off quickly, and the game becomes dull. No I do not want to run the same 2 dungeons 5 times a week for 4 months to get a full 210 set. Oh look a new primal. And after a couple wins I know everything that's going to happen in the fight and it's super boring to just go through the empty motions of beating it. At least LoV is a more dynamic experi---aaand nobody's playing it.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

This right here, people rush into the game burn themselves out because they want it all done now.
Then they sit on game bored with nothing to do instead of taking breaks.

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And who you are to judge?
Some may have 2 months free time and like to accomplish something in that time!
If we follow your argumentation it means everyone having the same total free time and can spread it equally through the days...

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Originally Posted by Twinner

I also didn't realize what the leve allowance meant and now it means I will have to wait a few days for my chocobo

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Not sure I'm seeing the connection here...you just need Seals from FATES after joining a Grand Company to get the chocobo. How do you think your leve allowance factors in?

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Originally Posted by Twinner

I'm cancelling my account within 30 days of subscribing because I ran out of quests to level. I know there are quests out there, but I work full time and I don't want the couple of hours I have each night to play /snip

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You will run out of quests to level FAR faster in SWTOR. They are actually making that a selling point. Then the new "expac" is something you can finish in less than a weekend. New 1 hour and shorter chapters will be released on a monthly basis, starting next month. All of the level 65 content, outside of this story, is actually original launch content that is forced level sync. So what you complain about here is worse there.

I don't get the leve thing because you can get those tokens from any number of methods. Additionally if you didn't just one track through the story, that story takes you past all the other quests in the world. So really the "having to go in search of quests..." is a consequence of you own choice.

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Originally Posted by Callback

False. A satisfying core gameplay loop can have people coming back for the exact same thing for hours and hours, even with zero or minimal progression. Just look at TF2, LoL, DotA2, CS:GO, or any of the huge number of rogue-lites that rack up hundreds of hours apiece.

Satisfying core gameplay is the one thing XIV sorely lacks, and it's the reason it will not have the longevity it expects.

/snip.

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From the games you note as doing things right it looks like the MMORPG genre is something you have an issue with because you noted are FPS games and MOBAs.

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Originally Posted by Twinner

I'm cancelling my account within 30 days of subscribing because I ran out of quests to level. I know there are quests out there, but I work full time and I don't want the couple of hours I have each night to play spent on searching for things to do and running halfway across the world to get to them. I also didn't realize what the leve allowance meant and now it means I will have to wait a few days for my chocobo, something I'm just not willing to do, when I can just as easily go over to SWTOR or even... shiver... WoW and be able to find something to do constantly without downtime or lengthy travel times. Poorly designed game in many respects.

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I think you would have better off asking the community for help with leveling rather than necro-posting an "I quit" thread. FFXIV has more ways to get xp than both SWTOR and WoW.

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Originally Posted by Twinner

I'm cancelling my account within 30 days of subscribing because I ran out of quests to level. I know there are quests out there, [snip] can't find them

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You have your chocobo. Grats. Best upgrade for it is to fighting companion. Quest is in Camp Tranquil [My Feisty Chocobo]

The only quests you NEED to do are the MAIN STORY quests [gold meteor icon] and your class/job quests from your trainer. Any other quests should be left alone so any other classes you decide to level have some to do it with. Its pretty obvious you have lost your way. Your MSQs are for your arcanist.

This more or less chronological list of MSQ will help. If you're past the last quest on this page, please click the link for the level 30+ page. You must do the quests as they are handed out to you or you cannot progress in the game. All progress in FFXIV is based on the storyline.

I started the game in 2.4, where there was a LOT of things to do, a lot of content and a lot of variety and such and cool things you could do. At 3.0 they decided to abandon every single thing they had. Going from like 20 dungeons to 2 dungeons....

Yeah, anyone who thought that was a good idea needs fired. ;)

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Originally Posted by Galibier

From the games you note as doing things right it looks like the MMORPG genre is something you have an issue with because you noted are FPS games and MOBAs.

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Mostly because I was going for "zero or minimal progression." MMOs are designed around progression, but of course they can have satisfying core gameplay. Should I add Warframe to the list? Vindictus? ToS(beta)?

When progression is also fun, it keeps people coming back for much longer.

what makes people leave the game ?...the answer is : People's attitude

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

I started the game in 2.4, where there was a LOT of things to do, a lot of content and a lot of variety and such and cool things you could do. At 3.0 they decided to abandon every single thing they had. Going from like 20 dungeons to 2 dungeons....

Yeah, anyone who thought that was a good idea needs fired. ;)

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When you started in 2.4, you had content from 2.0, 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, and 2.4 to burn through; of course there would be a lot of dungeons available at level cap.

A person who joins the game in 3.4 will likely have a dozen dungeons to chew through at level cap as well, from 3.0, 3.1, 3.2, 3.3, and 3.4. Last I checked, we're not even at 3.2 yet.

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Originally Posted by Callback

Mostly because I was going for "zero or minimal progression." MMOs are designed around progression, but of course they can have satisfying core gameplay. Should I add Warframe to the list? Vindictus? ToS(beta)?

When progression is also fun, it keeps people coming back for much longer.

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You should fish more.

No, but seriously, there is plenty to come back and re-do in this game. Dungeons, FATEs, Guild hests, Raids, LeveQuests, beast tribe dailies, hunts, exploratory missions, Chocobo racing/Breeding, Lord of Verminion, any and all minigames at the Saucer, Triple Triad, Fishing and so on. That includes aspects of core gameplay, multi-player content, mini-games and alternate core gameplay such as gathering. None of that appeals to you personally, but that doesn't mean FFXIV lacks a "core gameplay loop" as you put it. It does mean that you personally think FFXIV is lacking in that regard - which is not at all the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Callback

Mostly because I was going for "zero or minimal progression." /snip.

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But again you are not making MMORPGs. Warframe is basically an FPS with Parkour, if you mean Tales of Symphonia that is a SP RPG and Vindictus is an Action MMO, that has a lot of limitations from the RPG angle Again, I get the issues. You think vertical progression is not the best model and you want something that is more action/console oriented. Thing is, again, you are talking about different genres of video game.

You are, in essence asking FFXIV to be a different kind of game. Video games are like cars. I like my Subaru WRX, my wife her loaded Hyundai Sonata SE. Each of them is a car BUT each if them is different in very important ways. Trying to say "you could make the Sonata handle like the WRX is missing the point that the Sonata is supposed to be a comfortable sedan, not a Rally car.

Basically you want the play style of an FPS/action game. That is what is fun for you. I find FFXIV to be fun. That is why there are different games and different genres. MMORPGs have always been niche. They exist and survive because they are different from the games you note. The character customization, vertical progression, the style of the game play itself, all there for the people who DON'T want to play a fast twitch oriented game. But even here, unlike other MMORPGs they have added some fast twitch elements with the combos and other mechanics. It may mean its not fun for you, but it is for a great many of us.

I know this thread is old but here's my opinion on this game as of now.

Things i like
~Probably one of the best stories on the market atm for mmorpgs in my opinion.

~Awesome graphics and optimization. I've played other mmos that look way worse than this one get sub 20 fps, but this game I can hold 60 fps mostly everywhere.

~Mount music are boss themes.

~The music is just awesome, but this is also a bad thing. The music is too good for a lot of the fights in this game that are just mostly face roll. Can't get hyped up if there's no challenge.

~AST limit break... Come on he summons a freakin galaxy, how awesome is that? xD

~Game is flashy

Things I don't like

~Game is flashy but it's not our characters that are flashy (aside from our limit breaks)

~Bosses in this game are a dance. Once you learn the dance it's a completely face roll battle even Alex savage starts feeling this way after a while.

~Healers mostly have no support skills and mainly just healing spells (seriously no aoe cleanse at least? really? really????). Also why do bards and mch get support skills and not us? Archer refilling mp, stamina (tp) lol that's a healer's job bruh.

~Tanks are too squishy and MUST be healed CONSTANTLY (not really a tank eh?)

~Dps classes deal way too little dmg, seriously I can outdmg some people on my healers in this game lol. And before you cry bad, if you ever played any other mmorpgs you'd know that healers (tanks too sometimes) deal so little dmg that a mob that a dps one shots will usually take a healer 15 mins to kill

~Dungeons take too long because mobs have too much hp or dps are way too weak going back to my previous comment. Some dungeons can be over 30 mins long sometimes (Stone Vigil), and with random people not from your server that you don't care about and 4 people per party it's kind of boring.

~Can't whisper, view guild, friendlist or linkshells while in dungeon.

~Way too much teleporting, the game world is worthless at lvl cap. Yes I hate the duty finder >.>

~Mounts are too slow, I like flying really low to the ground to see the game world at a much faster speed

~Weekly lockouts on content that's hardly rewarding at all.. Really SE? You're locking me out of a 1 boss 5-10 min raid for a week (A WEEK....MONTHLY SUB) and it drops 2 random gear that possibly no one needs and in some cases weaker than gear you get from I-fell-asleep-at-my-keyboard-void ark? Get outta here lol.

~Materia sucks. I'm not sure on how it works because I never bothered because you can't put it on raid gear, but I heard you can't meld your main stat or something like that. So if I'm a healer I can't use mind materia? Why not? What other class is going to use mind materia?

There's probably more but I'm tired of typing =P. These are a few reasons on why I can't play this game very long like I do other mmos (hell I'm still playing the p2w grindfest known as Maplestory, been playing that for over 7 years)

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Originally Posted by Galibier

if you mean Tales of Symphonia

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Tree of Savior. Sorry I didn't make that one clear. Closed beta has ended and we're now just waiting.

RagnarokOnline was the grandmaster of boring grindfests that relied everything on RNG.

I don't believe that Tree of Savior will be any better.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

RagnarokOnline was the grandmaster of boring grindfests that relied everything on RNG.

I don't believe that Tree of Savior will be any better.

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Seeing their Cash Shop is charging $40 for one hairstyle. Yeah...

There are alot of things I started to dislike about this game, hence why I unsubbed and will see when or if I ever come back.The lack of fight/combat patches is too low, I love FF games but this game just start to make it less off a FF game. I don't mind what they did in 3.1, but I think alot of people in this thread or in general probably agrees on me when I say they spent way too much time and resource on the minion fight that became a huge flop.

Thordan was one of the well designed, if not the best designed fight since HW came out. They ruined alex savage by using normal mode. I don't mind it but different bosses and mechanics would be alot better and more fun I believe. But that's the catch. Not only does relic have a short lifespan but so does savage or upgraded gear. Once you completed savage you got it done, which means the gear you have gotten so far will never be used at all until a next patch with new raids will come out, which will obviously give better gear, in terms of stats and Ilvl obviously.

I don't think it's about satisfying 1 part over another, I'm talking about what some one mentioned earlier, game designers can't always satisfy both ''casuals'' or ''hardcores'' But that's the thing, the did good when coil came out, alex story mode was somewhat an okay idea. The problem here is alex normal should never happened, I think another raid with same level of diffculty would been better on top fo savage. Don't get me wrong when I say a3+4 savage was way harder, when you compare to 1-2. The gap and specially the reward was just too low, yes too low. You get the gear from one of the hardest dps checks and somewhat mechanics (more dps check than mechanics) and once you obtain it, it's no longer that used, just to kill savage boss fights faster or in case like most groups did, cleard it all and stopped playing. Lifespan on gear and content in this game is way too low. You spend more time (slow phased) on relic than having an actuall use of it, and if you do somewhat midcore or hardcore grind it, it's still not worth it, as in the content is old and most have done it so why would it excactly help, unless you still do savage, which most people don't do that often anymore and then you have the group who doesn't and then what is relic gonna be good for?

I've often told my friends, fc or linkshells that the game state is dead somehow, the only players who currently play are:
1: Players like me, until sub is over, just to say hello, do random stuff and that's it
2: Players who still wanna do content but can't get it done with, no group or friends, fc etc to do it with OR the fact most people did it when came out and just died the second everyone got the item
3; New players, and some have a massive shit time to get stuff done, hell even que up. I don't mind helping new players, hell I even offer them gear, gil, food etc if I even see one who's new and happens to be on my server, but it's not gonna get fixed just because I do it.


Content NEEDS a bigger lifespan and there also needs to be more raids with different gear stats and obviously need to make them unique somewhat, like you have with the grand company set's where you use some certain gear you get bonus stats. I dunno, some ideas has been brought up on reddit and here and they are all good. Making it linear like they always been is not gonna make raids any better if they are all gonna be just upgrade stats or different, just like how DRG relic got pissed on. (det and ss, because Gordian has crit and det, while eso has skillspeed and crit).
We need gears to be unique and different in each raid. There are so many people I know who think's excactly the same as me and then you have those who doesn't, which I respect. But I know alot of people will end up unsubbing once 3.2 comes out if it's gonna be another 3.1.

I'm just going to paste a recent blog entry I made. Gives some insight from a new player perspective. TL;DR: The game can be overwhelming to a new player and it can be hard to do the things you REALLY want to do because there are things you DON'T want to do that need to be done.

"I'm returning from a break, but I still consider myself a new player. I'm a little frustrated though and feeling overwhelmed.

I'd like to be a White Mage. So I got to lvl 30 in Conjurer and am now level 10 in Arcane. I figure, yay just 5 more levels and I'm a White Mage! After doing some reading, I realize, Nope. I still need to level Arcane and Thaurmaturge for cross class skills.

So I basically played naked from 1-10 on Arcane (in my race gear) because I'm too cheap to buy gear. I'm level 26 in weaver,but I was feeling lazy and didn't want to craft. At 10, I finally crafted a couple of items. Problem is, I don't really want to que in DF as DPS, so I guess I'm going to have to craft all my own gear for the Arcaneist and Thaurmaturge. I don't WANT to play those classes, but that's what I have to do

I'm not in the mood to level my Weaver or Botony, but I probably should.

So I figure, hey, I'm getting burned out. I'm going to try fishing. That should be easy. I look up a guide and realize -- nope. That involves having good gear as well and melding, which leads me to my next issue.

I have all this gear in my armoury which is partially soulbound. I know there are strategies to soulbind, but they sound kind of complicated for a lvl 30 conjurer (making a set, doing specific runs, etc). So they are just sitting there.. until I figure out what to do with them.

Don't even get me started on the fact that even though I'd love a house, I can't have one.

Man, this sounds like a really whiny post. All I want to do is heal. And maybe fish. And decorate my home. This game makes those things pretty darn complicated. It probably doesn't help that I haven't found a FC yet. My server's forum isn't very active so I'm left shifting through months old posts and hoping they are still recruiting.

Oh, and I haven't been allowed to post on the forums for weeks. I keep getting some warning that says I haven't been validated in 14 days so I can't log in on the forums.

/sigh

Despite all of that, I do like this game. I think at this point, it just seems a bit overwhelming because I'm not familiar with everything. I'm sure it will get easier as I progress."

Takes time Nalyna to level and get cross skills and the like. Leveling shouldn't be a chore but fun hopefully, I know personally I enjoy it. Relative to gathering and crafting those all take time but you can make gil as you level to get things you'd like. Being in a free company can help with people who can help make you things you need or run some duties you have or just answer questions.

White Mage is a great choice, I love it very much personally.

Once you're leveled in Grand Company and level 50 you can get a room in the FC estate you can decorate and call your own. It does cost 300k so try not to waste gil as you level buying lots of stuff. New housing is coming but the specifics and costs of the apartment style housing isn't really known at this time.

Focus on story, keep it leveled with your character level as it unlocks lots of things you need for the game. Good luck.

Thank you, LaylaTsarra =)

Simply: for anyone who has been playing for a decent length of time... there is nothing to do.

Yes, I know I COULD level every single job to 60... but the 50->60 grind is mind numbing. And I say this as someone who pre-HW had every single thing to 50.

All I log on for now is to do my roulettes and BT to slowly chip away at relic. It's habit, and I catch up with FC people, but it's not overly fun.

So yeah...rephrase to there is nothing FUN to do.

(and I have always been a big defender of this game, and I have no intention of letting my subscription drop, it's comfy to log in for a little even if I have nothing to do. But... post-HW, content has been lacking.)

There is one thing I really don't like in this game and it's the not existing customization. Every class has his set in stone rotation (or priorities for Bards/Mech). Even the things which could have the possibility to be customizable have no space for that and have just one way to go like cross class skills or the 30 points of stats you can spend.
Still not a reason to quit this game for me :p

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Originally Posted by Seraphix2407

Content NEEDS a bigger lifespan and there also needs to be more raids with different gear stats and obviously need to make them unique somewhat, like you have with the grand company set's where you use some certain gear you get bonus stats.

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This is a good point - more ways to obtain gear, in particular.

Over time, Yoshi-P's thinking has shown to be very limited and one-dimensional in its scope. He seems satisfied to have only 2 or 3 ways of obtaining gear, with each approach targeting very specific groups of people (casual players, "mid-core", and hardcore/raiders). He seems to be stuck on thinking that gear should either come specifically from either exceptionally challenging content, or long monotonous grinds involving old content that many people had already run into the ground in the past for other reasons (because his answer to those things was also "more grind!") - with nothing in-between, and no variation on either theme.

And that's it. Grinding the same 2 or 3 pieces of content. That's all he seems able to come up with, or it's all he's interested in supporting.

Now, others are going to say "What else is he supposed to do? What else is there he can do? It's a MMO!". Well, let me point you to a certain other MMO, called FFXI.. and the myriad of content, and associated rewards introduced in just one Expansion.. "Treasures of Aht Urghan".


1) Assault.
Here's a wiki page on Assault. Read it over. And I mean, actually read it over. Don't just gloss over it and then dismiss it because you didn't bother to actually see how much it actually entails. Assault entails many different missions, spread across several Ranks, and encompassing a total of 50 different maps, each tailored for a specific mission/goal. Not in the mood to do "Lebros Caverns Excavations" tonight? No problem, there are 9 other possible missions you can choose from in just that one category, out of 5 total categories. That's called having variety and providing choice, even within the context of a single event.

Assault offered several sets of gear.. And this is in addition to the gear available from other activities in the game, of which there were several... NMs/HNMs, Burning Circles, Coffers, Quests, Crafting, Dynamis, Conquest Points, and so on and so on.

2) Nyzul Isle Investigation
This one is a variation on Assault. Instead of individual maps with a single objective, Nyzul Isle Investigation is based around a 100-floor dungeon, where each floor, its goal, and its enemies, are generated randomly from a pool of possible combinations. This also came with its own set of challenges, and its own gear. Here's a page on Nyzul Isle. Look how much is involved in just that one activity.

3) Salvage
Salvage was yet another entire system introduced in Aht Urghan, with its own specific challenges, rules, rewards, etc. Here's a wiki page on Salvage.

4) Einherjar
Yet another fun system, with its own challenges, rules and rewards, also introduced in the Treasures expansion. Wiki page here.

5) Besieged
On top of this, Aht Urghan also brought Besieged which, while very laggy - but still playable - is/was an awful lot of fun. It has a very interesting system built around it. For example, key NPCs - like the Chocobo handler, Warp NPC, etc. - could be taken hostage, and players would have to to get them back before they could be used again. There were different beast tribes that could attack, and they could vary in overall difficulty. Each beastman tribe would entail different enemy types, including normal mobs, FATE-level enemies and, depending on the difficulty level of the encounter, would include a raid-level boss to defeat. It was crazy and chaotic, but it was a lot of fun.

Here's a page on Besieged. Besieged, (along with other content, if you had a sigil active) also rewards Imperial Standing, which acts as a currency to buy gear and other goods (similar to the GCs). So that's yet another way in which players could acquire useful gear.

There you go. 5 completely different, but equally involved and uniquely rewarding game systems, all included in a single expansion. That is, of course, in addition to the main storyline quest, numerous battles, cut-scenes, etc. etc. Each system is on a level comparable to Diadem - only better implemented and more fleshed out.

That's the level of content typical of an expansion, or even intermediate updates, in FFXI. XIV doesn't even come close to what SE delivered in XI in terms of quantity, variety, longevity or - arguably - quality of content.

Any one of those systems could have kept you engaged and challenged at least as long as XIV's most involved content, and typically much longer before it started to feel repetitive. And when it did, you had myriad other things to do instead. What Yoshi-P considers a "finished and complete system" in FFXIV would be just the foundation of a much larger and diverse system in FFXI.

People love to bash FFXI and regurgitate all the standard canned "complaints" that are so stock that someone can recite them without having stepped foot in Vana'diel.

The fact is - and I do mean Fact - FFXI offered far more in terms of content (with variations on that content), progression and gear to its players in a single expansion (not even including what had been added before that) than Yoshi-P has even attempted - or would even consider (per his own say-so, on multiple occasions now) with FFXIV since its re-launch.

Say what you want about Tanaka and his screw-ups with FFXIV 1.0 - he absolutely blew it there. That does not erase the fact that, under his direction, FFXI provided *tons* of new and varied content to players, with new, interesting, good gear that actually remained relevant for far longer than a patch cycle. He understood how to create content with depth, with challenges and rewards that would keep players engaged for months, even years, without rehashing the same ideas over and over. He didn't rely on the Yoshi-P method of "grind on old content, or run the same one or two raid dungeons ad nauseum for the next several months while I decide what old content I want you to grind on in the next update".

At first, I was firmly on board with the whole "Yoshi-P > Tanaka" mentality that pervaded the XIV community. As time goes on, and I see how little Yoshi-P is doing, or is even willing to do, to expand and evolve XIV into something other than "more of the same", my feelings on that are growing to be quite the opposite. I think, if given another chance - even if he was required to "tone it down" and make it more "mainstream" - Tanaka could have delivered us a much more interesting game than Yoshi-P has. Historically, I think there's more to support that probability than not. After all, he made a lot of poor choices with 1.0, but here's the thing... at least he was willing to try new and different ideas, and not play everything safe. That alone increases the likelihood of him making XIV a more interesting and varied game than it's turned out to be; and I don't think he'd have relied so heavily on fan service and nostalgia to make it happen.

And before you scoff... Remember something. Tanaka was the person behind FFXI - SE's most profitable title for a long time, and possibly still. He's proven he can run a successful MMORPG, over many years. Not to mention, all the other games he's been involved with. I would bet real money that many people who bash him were, and still are, fans of his previous works. The guy's not a know-nothing wanna-be. His career experience speaks for itself, and you can't dismiss that, not even after 1.0's development. Just as Yoshi-P and SE learned from the mistakes of 1.0, under similar circumstances, so too could Tanaka have learned from his own.

This game could be so much more than it is. It's being held back by the insecurities, stubbornness and shortsightedness of one person.

All my opinion of course, but I think I stand on some pretty solid ground with it.

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Originally Posted by Galibier

But again you are not making MMORPGs.

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I am listing them tho.

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Warframe is basically an FPS with Parkour

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Warframe is an MMORPG that chooses to use third-person shooter combat. More on definitions later.

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Vindictus is an Action MMO, that has a lot of limitations from the RPG angle

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Where? It's an MMORPG with action combat. What part of the RPG is lacking? In many ways it beats XIV in that regard. In XIV your job and playstyle is not really your own. Skills all have 1 rank (or occasionally an extra 1 or 2 from traits), which is simply given to you in its completed state at a certain level. Everyone in a job ends up with the exact same kit, and playstyles converge towards the optimal rotation because of it. Vindictus has you earn your skills and choose to rank each one up individually using the AP you earn separately from your level. 2 players on the same character class could have vastly different skillsets, even when using the same weapon type (which also changes the kit entirely to a new set of available skills).

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Again, I get the issues. You think vertical progression is not the best model and you want something that is more action/console oriented.

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I point back to my example again. Vertical progression, distilled to its purest form with nothing else in the way is how you get a clicker game. Cookie Clicker is literally just vertical progression with nothing else. It's satisfying for a little while, but that's also because you can idle it and do other things while you just check back and see all the progression "you" have made.

Vertical progression is good, it's why clickers exist to scratch that itch. I'm just saying it needs something more substantial behind it to do in order to create an engaging experience.

Oh, and one caveat that XIV seems to go a bit awry on. Vertical progression falls apart if things obsolesce too quickly. Players will lack the motivation to put in 100 hours for a thing they know is going to be nerfed and/or replaced with something better 2 patches down the road. other players may ignore the entire endgame, knowing the next expansion will just increase the level cap and 5 levels later your default NPC gear surpasses even the best of the previous endgame.

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Thing is, again, you are talking about different genres of video game.

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I somewhat am and am not simultaneously. I'm still talking MMORPG, but that's not a defining genre. It can be combined with literally any other genre to make something interesting. MMORPG Racing? Tales Runner. MMORPG Golf? PangYa. MMORPG Clicker game? Remember the last Steam summer sale? You get the point. MMORPG is more of a tag or modifier, like rogue-lite, that can be used with any other genre.

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You are, in essence asking FFXIV to be a different kind of game.

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No I'm not. The game is set in its design. I'm just telling you its limitations as it stands right now.

The horrible way people treat each other in statics for endgame content made me quit, because I just couldn't bear it anymore how people failed but still did nothing but shout at each other and pushing the blame on them.
But I came back and just abandoned statics because the game seperate from that was still fun^^

The initial first Atma stage of the old relic made me quit again when after 3 weeks of constant FATE spamming for hours upon hours per day I still didn't have even one single Atma.
But I came back and even went through the whole Relic quest, because the world, the lore, the story and the people I know were all too good to be abandoned.

Maybe I'm a special case, but I'm happier without 5000 new and exiting ways to modify my build/skills/whatever, and I like that I don't have to learn 50 new instances every 2 months.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Once you're leveled in Grand Company and level 50 you can get a room in the FC estate you can decorate and call your own. It does cost 300k so try not to waste gil as you level buying lots of stuff. New housing is coming but the specifics and costs of the apartment style housing isn't really known at this time.

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Thinking about that 'new housing', I think it's essentially a specialized version of a FC house with personal Chambers. A FC can gave 512 members, each member can have a personal chamber accessed through the FC house, and has access to the chocobo stable & garden - for example.

The new housing will allow up to 512 apartments in each 'mansion', and there will be communal Chocobo stables, plus they are working on personal gardening items for use in personal chambers. Basically this 'new' housing is more or less like belonging to an un-named FC and buying a Personal Chamber in the 'FC' house. The personal Chambers in these new Mansions may be bigger than the ones in our existing FC houses, or may not. Perhaps you can pay more for a larger room? Either way, the new housing is functionally equivalent to being a member of a sleeper FC.

It's actually a smart re-use of an existing system that can be tweaked to function as required without implementing an entirely new housing system in parallel to the existing one. It should also allow them to create at least 1 apartment complex or 'mansion' per ward since you only need modify the ward to include the entrance to the apartment complex.

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Originally Posted by Callback

I am listing them though /snip

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Warframe is an Co-Op not an MMORPG. You pick missions you want, you can solo or wait for a squad, then Parkour over everything and grind for mats. The back story is part of a lore page, not part of game play, no campaign mode/story and when it launched there wasn't even a lobby.

Vindictus is lacking Character individuality. Here I am Galibier, my character is mine to make, not just in appearance but in name, if I want my own back story etc. In Vindictus you are one of THEIR characters. An MMORPG is not simply that because of a class structure or groups. It also lacks a persistent world which is a key difference. Of late, games that have multiplayer on servers tries to say they are an MMORPG.

An MMORPG, is more than how many people are logged into a server, an MMORPG also has:

1. An ongoing story inside the game
2. A persistent and/or open world not just a lobby from which to launch into instances, even if the instance is group. MASSIVELY does not mean how many people are logged into the lobby, its how many people are engaging the persistent world as you do.
3. The ability to, for lack of a better term, "own" the character.

In essence factors beyond the combat mechanics that make you feel like you are in a living breathing world, where you can be engaged outside of the instanced dungeons.

The two games above share far more with DA:I, AC:U and Mass Effect 3 than an MMORPG

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Originally Posted by Galibier

An MMORPG, is more than how many people are logged into a server, an MMORPG also has:

1. An ongoing story inside the game
2. A persistent and/or open world not just a lobby from which to launch into instances, even if the instance is group. MASSIVELY does not mean how many people are logged into the lobby, its how many people are engaging the persistent world as you do.
3. The ability to, for lack of a better term, "own" the character.

In essence factors beyond the combat mechanics that make you feel like you are in a living breathing world, where you can be engaged outside of the instanced dungeons.

The two games above share far more with DA:I, AC:U and Mass Effect 3 than an MMORPG

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#1: No. Story, while most MMOs have it, is not mandatory. Some thrive off of it being your story. The game provides a world and you make your own adventure. You get to build a story of your character and how they go about their journey through this world. It's an open canvas for you to project upon.

Others make the story more active. The world itself evolves. Events happen for you to actually play through and determine the outcome of major points in history, with permanent consequences that forever reshape the game's world.

Still others bury their story lore, not spelled out to you but rather left around in clues for you to discover on your own. It's a journey of discovery as you learn what this world is and how you fit into it.

#2: Again, no. By this you seem to mean open world combat? That's a definite no. As long as it provides a space for players to interact on a massive scale, it's an MMO. Think of Legend of the Green Dragon, a text adventure MMORPG (might argue it's a MUD but the mechanics in place make it feel more MMORPG). The town is just a big text chat lobby. Towns in other MMOs, including XIV, are also more like big visual lobbies, but that's enough. It's a place for character interaction. Are you going to say Guild Wars isn't an MMORPG because you always instance upon leaving a town?

#3: Every game does this. You complain just because Vindictus has you play as an established character? So does XIV. You are the "Warrior of Light." Every player sees the same story. You are "The one" who stopped [boss] when it threatened [place].

Owning the character is what you Do in the game. It's your customization, it's your playstyle, it's your actions. Again, other games can sometimes differ far MORE in terms of customization both visually and especially in build customization, but even in single player games you still "own" the character. The simple act of playing is you imparting your actions, a part of your will, onto the character.

I would say the 90k errors, no other game does this except this one, after a while it gets on peoples nerves.

People do a long dungeon almost to final boss then 90k and then kicked from the party for offline or pvp when people are almost done with frontline and winning then 90k you get no reward and have to sit out the whole fight again.

People get fed up no other games do this and they decide its time to move on.