Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

All that does is just turn the rest of the forums against us because while anyone else is free to make any topic about anything else as soon as healers get involved we are just told to go back to the healer forum

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If it was from hundreds of different people like the current uproar, then what can they really do?

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Originally Posted by TheOperator3712

If it was from hundreds of different people like the current uproar, then what can they really do?

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That’s assuming they actually do anything about the current uproar and not just go “give it a try” then completely ignore any future feedback, like the current healers, or SAM or any other bad changes they have made in the last 6 years

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

That’s assuming they actually do anything about the current uproar and not just go “give it a try” then completely ignore any future feedback, like the current healers, or SAM or any other bad changes they have made in the last 6 years

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Hence my earlier remark that next few days on the forum would be interesting. Either we finally learn what the threshold is for feedback to make an impact, or a whole of disillusioned people come out the other side of this.

It's worth noting that if they're reading any feedback at all, that they've tried the "more healing" route in Abyssos, perhaps they'll try the "make healing downtime more interesting" route this time.

I don't really care whether or not it's more damage spells or whatever, just something more to do would be nice. Buffs to maintain, debuffs to manage, rolling CDs, timer juggling, literally anything other than 140 Broils would be nice.

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Originally Posted by Xurtan

Just +1ing this thread. Battlefield controllers used to be my favorite class in MMOs in the 90s and early 00s, then those were taken away and I moved to healer. Now healers have been pretty much nerfed into braindead oblivion, and I'm unsure what to play instead. Prog is still kinda interesting, but after that? Ehh. Mana isn't really a concern, aggro absolutely isn't a concern, we have no damage rotation, healing stance doesn't exist anymore... what's left for them to take?

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Same as me. If you like to track the game state and manage the battlefield there's no gameplay for you anymore. Turn your brain off and keep these 20 glorified auto-attacks on cooldown until the boss dies.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

It's worth noting that if they're reading any feedback at all, that they've tried the "more healing" route in Abyssos, perhaps they'll try the "make healing downtime more interesting" route this time.

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Mitigation checks aren't healing.

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Originally Posted by vetch

Same as me. If you like to track the game state and manage the battlefield there's no gameplay for you anymore. Turn your brain off and keep these 20 glorified auto-attacks on cooldown until the boss dies.



Mitigation checks aren't healing.

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Mitigation checks would be healing if the he tanks and DPS didn’t hold more than half the cumulative mitigation between them

If the shield healer held 70% of the raids mitigation and the regen healer held 80% of the raids potential healing then abyssos would have been damn near flawless in terms of how it challenged healers

The problem is the DPS have too much mitigation they don’t press then they blame the healers when they don’t press it

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Originally Posted by vetch

Mitigation checks aren't healing.

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Tell that to the dev team. They're the ones that said Abyssos was their attempt at increasing healing requirements. To them, upping healing requirements was already tried and it failed, so maybe they'll try the other option next.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

Tell that to the dev team. They're the ones that said Abyssos was their attempt at increasing healing requirements. To them, upping healing requirements was already tried and it failed, so maybe they'll try the other option next.

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To be honest, I'm not sure if the dev team even realizes that healing can be increased with frequency rather than directly higher damage. Like when faced with people asking for more healing, they look at the current rhythm of a fight, see where damage is being dealt, and see increasing those values as the only way to address that, not realizing that adding more instances of healing is even an option.

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

But hardly anyway praises the new fights with a few exceptions for healing. Those fights kept you on your toes and didn't just wipe the party when you fail a single mechanic.

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nisi wants to know your location

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Originally Posted by 4clubbedace

nisi wants to know your location

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I have done Nisi. I have raid since mid 2.3. This has been the expansion with the biggest healing uproar so far. And if they continue with the current trend, the healing comp is going to be sch/sge going forward with the regen healers falling behind.

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

I have done Nisi. I have raid since mid 2.3. This has been the expansion with the biggest healing uproar so far. And if they continue with the current trend, the healing comp is going to be sch/sge going forward with the regen healers falling behind.

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its because healing doesnt exist in a vaccume, all roles and classes play off each other. each dps has one mitigation (some get to be special and have two) and tanks by nature are also catogorized as support.

surrrrrreee midas and gordias could have been more instresting for healers , but they were such nightmare fights that again, nearly killed the scene entirely, shit , /i/ quit back then.

also nisi does punish yhe group if you mess it up, hence why i used it as a repsonse

But given how they do fights, it wouldn't be a surprise if say a world first does do it without healers at this point and the benchmark so far isn't doing any favors for new actions so far.

Edit: Cause it wasn't just top that was cleared without healers, but also p12s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etKYa3K70ek

and also aloalo criterion normal no healer https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1974813948

To be fair, and this is something I've said for months, even if the healers are being reworked, or feedback is being addressed in some capacity, I wouldn't think we'd know that from the benchmark. With Endwalker, we saw a lot of teased animations were just upgrades of existing actions, including jobs that did get more substantial changes like Monk. And I think that's just a decision being made to hide more important details for the job actions trailer. Even if they planned on using DT to start addressing healer feedback and not add any new healing actions since healers already have too many, I imagine they'd still want some of the healers healing in the trailer anyway because that makes more sense from a thematic standpoint. Honestly, if upgrades to Medica and Helios are all they had to show for new healing actions, then maybe that's a good thing, because it might mean that whatever else healers get doesn't have to do with even more healing bloat.

Taking a look at Samurai for a second, it's interesting that something that looks similar to Tenka Goken is a cone AOE. Endwalker made the decision to change Samurai's cones to circle AOEs, something that was criticized for being kind of unnecessary, and while relatively minor in the grand scheme of things, took away a subtle, yet satisfying aspect to playing Samurai. So it's interesting to see that they're giving them more cones again as that could indicate being receptive to Samurai feedback from its more passionate playerbase. What does that indicate for jobs like Summoner, Dark Knight, or the healers?

I certainly won't be holding my breath on these things, but I am starting to look toward the media tour with a the tiniest sprinkle of cautious optimism.

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

But given how they do fights, it wouldn't be a surprise if say a world first does do it without healers at this point and the benchmark so far isn't doing any favors for new actions so far.

Edit: Cause it wasn't just top that was cleared without healers, but also p12s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etKYa3K70ek

and also aloalo criterion normal no healer https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1974813948

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yes and ucob has been done without tanks, and even from the poeple doing it its is a niche , highly coodinated, and luck based endeavor these are not the norm and not something a random pick up group would attempt or could even do.

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Originally Posted by 4clubbedace

yes and ucob has been done without tanks, and even from the poeple doing it its is a niche , highly coodinated, and luck based endeavor these are not the norm and not something a random pick up group would attempt or could even do.

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Well my argument is that either of these should of been able to be done in the first place, including the no tank ucob.

Edit: This game is a trinity based game and thus should just try to adhere to as much as possible in accordance their own stated goals.

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

Well my argument is that either of these should of been able to be done in the first place, including the no tank ucob.

Edit: This game is a trinity based game and thus should just try to adhere to as much as possible in accordance their own stated goals.

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Its not an argument, youre just saying "but i dont like this"
none of these were done on launch, they were done with at least 20 ilevels past their min (what theyre balanced for) or two whole expacs behind

so the actual argument that people that primarily heal want is either more frequent/intense healing that makes early ilevel prog a nightmare, or more damage buttons and less healing buttons

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Originally Posted by 4clubbedace

Its not an argument, youre just saying "but i dont like this"
none of these were done on launch, they were done with at least 20 ilevels past their min (what theyre balanced for) or two whole expacs behind

so the actual argument that people that primarily heal want is either more frequent/intense healing that makes early ilevel prog a nightmare, or more damage buttons and less healing buttons

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But this is where the devs are spineless in that regard. We have the MR Happy interview where Yoshi P said "he understands the dps aspect but doesn't want to add dramatic additions because we don't want to scare new healers." And then on the other hand, we have the mizzteq interview

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But that said we don't want to make the content impossible for players with not as high skill level to clear. Because if we make it too intense, the number of people who can clear the content will be very limited. We don't want to have a situation where somebody is just healing the whole time, like All the time, or like we have to HAVE to manage MP constantly.

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

But this is where the devs are spineless in that regard. We have the MR Happy interview where Yoshi P said "he understands the dps aspect but doesn't want to add dramatic additions because we don't want to scare new healers." And then on the other hand, we have the mizzteq interview

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"he understands the dps aspect but doesn't want to add dramatic additions because we don't want to scare new healers."
" don't want to make the content impossible for players with not as high skill level to clear. Because if we make it too intense, the number of people who can clear the content will be very limited. "

new healers and less skilled healers are a venndiagram so small its almost a circle. nothing about these parts of the statments are incongruous.

"We don't want to have a situation where somebody is just healing the whole time, like All the time, or like we have to HAVE to manage MP constantly." this part swings either way, but doesnt detract either. the fear i can see them putting on a strict rotation where healing can potentially harm said rotation. that fear cant be validated or dismissed unless its tried, and no one wants that fear validated if it makes the population of healer primaries even smaller. and frankly healers dont heal all the time, its a spell and dot with, primarily, ogcds.

A increased complexity of the healers damage will just end up with healers hemogenized into the way tanks play. one hotbar weaved in heals in mit between a damage combo.

im not sure if this is what /everyone/ wants,

Well they have to do something. As it stands, the discontent is just growing from all sides. And don't lecture on how healers heal or damage since I have been doing this since 2.1

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

Well they have to do something. As it stands, the discontent is just growing from all sides. And don't lecture on how healers heal or damage since I have been doing this since 2.1

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new healers that play healers now have as much as a say as ones whove been playing for a decade, seniority doesnt give your words more weight

It's funny because there's a lot that could be done to address feedback without making things "impossible for players with not as high skill level to clear."

In regards to DPS, DPS on healers does not matter in regards to clearing because almost all of FFXIV's content's pass or fail checks fall on mechanic knowledge, not DPS checks. It's only in EX and up that we even have enrages, and even then, healers have so much leniency when it comes to damage output because the deal the least damage, and are not expected to have 100% DPS uptime anyway. And what's ironic about the amount of DPS a healer does need to put out in order for their team to clear, ironically, purging DPS abilities from healers and loading all that responsibility onto one single attack spell has actually made it more punishing to DPS. Excluding old Cleric Stance, the more potency you load onto a spammed attack, the more pressure there is to have a higher DPS uptime as a healer. The less potency you load onto a spammed attack and instead redirect that onto other attacks that cannot be spammed, the less pressure there is to maintain uptime. So adding a few more attacks and siphoning that potency away from your Glare, Malefic, Dosis, Broil spells will actually make DPSing as a healer less demanding to a point.

And for MP management, that's only true if MP is always required to do anything. Something I as well as Roe have discussed time and time again is if you reduce the MP cost of your most basic spells... on White Mage, for example, if Glare, Cure II, and Medica at least had a 0 MP cost, then you'd always have a backup plan. This gives designers the freedom to have more dynamic things to spend MP on because even if you overspend, you simply hurt your optimization and not the party's survivability.

It just baffles me because finding solutions to problems like this is basically the definition of being a game designer. I know they're capable of coming up with solutions that would be a better happy medium than the dogshit healers of Shadowbringers and Endwalker. I just hope if not for DT, then one day, they'll put in the modicum of effort you'd need to start finding those solutions.

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Originally Posted by 4clubbedace

new healers that play healers now have as much as a say as ones whove been playing for a decade, seniority doesnt give your words more weight

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There are still new healers that have called out healer design for being awful, you know. We've seen it multiple times over on the healer threads in the past. This isn't just a veteran problem.

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Originally Posted by 4clubbedace

A increased complexity of the healers damage will just end up with healers hemogenized into the way tanks play. one hotbar weaved in heals in mit between a damage combo.

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That's only true if someone's brain is so addled and rotted by FFLogs that they can no longer comprehend the idea, "This GCD spent healing is better for the party's total DPS in the long run than if I spammed my nuke yet again." Though, to be fair, current job design and encounter design might have also addled one's brain into forgetting that GCD heals exist and could have a place if only someone tried.

(And why is it always either "1-2-3 combo" or "plays like a tank"? :confused:)

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

That's only true if someone's brain is so addled and rotted by FFLogs that they can no longer comprehend the idea, "This GCD spent healing is better for the party's total DPS in the long run than if I spammed my nuke yet again." Though, to be fair, current job design and encounter design might have also addled one's brain into forgetting that GCD heals exist and could have a place if only someone tried.

(And why is it always either "1-2-3 combo" or "plays like a tank"? :confused:)

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It is humorous when people say that when it would be much better to either make it either like a blm or rdm but of course not fully expanded.

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Originally Posted by 4clubbedace

new healers that play healers now have as much as a say as ones whove been playing for a decade, seniority doesnt give your words more weight

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It does a bit, it does give them more validity.

Would you trust the new 16 year old driver, or the 26 year old who's been driving for 10 years.

People who have seen the evolution of healers over the past decade have a different completely perspective than those who just joined in Endwalker.

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Originally Posted by 4clubbedace

A increased complexity of the healers damage will just end up with healers hemogenized into the way tanks play. one hotbar weaved in heals in mit between a damage combo.

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We did have a more complex kit as healers pre-ShB, this is not something we're making up out of thin air with our imagination, we actually had it, and healers played nothing like tanks.

The biggest problem is that people have gotten so much brainrot from the current design of healers that they refuse to believe anything other than the current design of "Use every GCD on damage and only heal with OGCDs" can work.

As for it being "not what everyone wants", can the dev team only make changes if everyone is united on it? Did they make sure everyone wanted what we have now? Did every SAM want Kaiten gone? Did every DRG and AST player shout for a rework?

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

People who have seen the evolution of healers over the past decade have a different completely perspective than those who just joined in Endwalker.

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It's not even about being old enough to have experienced previous iterations of the game.
The new player, who is still busy doing MSQ, rarely has any experience with how the jobs really work or even how fight mechanics play out on average. It is also entirely possible for their opinion to shift entirely once they've gained that experience.

You can't really give the same weight to someone who knows exactly how healers play at all difficulty levels and someone who hasn't used any abilities besides Cure 1/2 and Medica 2.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

As for it being "not what everyone wants", can the dev team only make changes if everyone is united on it? Did they make sure everyone wanted what we have now? Did every SAM want Kaiten gone? Did every DRG and AST player shout for a rework?

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To add to this, did every ninja wanted to turn trick attack into a 2 min cd? Did Astros wanted minor arcana to go back to its inferior stormblood version? Did healers want most of what they got in 5.0?

They need to takes risks, Sure sometimes it will blow up in your face but then you can take what you learn and improve on it. Something that sadly CBU3 is kind of lacking in.

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Originally Posted by 4clubbedace

A increased complexity of the healers damage will just end up with healers hemogenized into the way tanks play. one hotbar weaved in heals in mit between a damage combo.

im not sure if this is what /everyone/ wants,

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Incredibly based change actually. If healers worked like tanks currently do, I would no longer be a former healer. I was a SCH main from 2.0 launch, all the way up to the first boss of Holminster Switch, at which point I hated the changes so much that I left the dungeon and dropped healing entirely, leveling GNB from 60 to 71 just so I could do the expansion as that instead of what I'd been using for half a decade at that point, and now dread leveling healers each expansion with healing always being the last role quest I get to.

I cannot stress enough that this is not hyperbole, it is not exageration. I hated the way my main job played SO MUCH that I left the dungeon and spent early access grinding 11 levels before getting back to MSQ.

They sure as hell didn't check with everyone the last time they made sweeping changes to everyone, why would they do so this time?

But yes actually. I would genuinely LOVE if they reversed the current healing kits, gave us 5 healing related skills (spamable cure GCD, AoE Heal, and then like 3 healing GCDs) and then had everything else be a regular ass class kit. So much of the issue right now is that healers are playing a fundamentally different game.

Or heck, just make us a normal DPS but if we target an ally our action heals them, so where other classes are focusing on weaving in mitigation or damage buffs, we are weaving in target changes, while still maintaining our gameplay flow the same way every other job does.

I genuinely don't care what they do. Summoner, Machinist, and Ninja have all gotten multiple major overhaul over the years until they found reasonably comfortable spots (even if I am one of the weirdos that misses gun/bow mage). If they make a change and it doesn't stick, that's fine. It doesn't have to be that way forever. They can just change it again.

After all, they already have, and that's why we are here in the first place.

I genuinely have no idea how you can look at tanks and healers and come to conclusion that tanks are not unequivocally better designed in every single way

The only arguments you could potentially make in reverse would basically amount to

1) healers don’t have the balance problem of WAR being better than everyone else at everything (which ironically unbalanced healers more than it does the other tanks)
2) healers still have a good chunk of their kit designed around their primary function while tanks it’s basically an afterthought (which is a pointless argument considering healers don’t use what they have)

At this point healers playing like tanks would be an astronomical improvement

Even just making the few attacks we do have used more frequently would be a breath of fresh air. Drop DOTs from 30 seconds to 15 seconds. Drop Phlegma from a 40 second cooldown to a 20 second cooldown. Add some quality to each AOE spell that gives it functionality in single target, whether that be something like a mobility button (like Dyskrasia is both your AOE and a DPS neutral mobility spell with a higher MP cost) or adding buff upkeep to a job earned through your AOE attack, or give the AOE attack usable utility against all types of enemies, like adding a mitigation effect to Gravity even if under specific circumstances.

I think 8-10 offensive actions would be perfect, but just taking better advantage of the 4-5 we already have would go a long way.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Even just making the few attacks we do have used more frequently would be a breath of fresh air. Drop DOTs from 30 seconds to 15 seconds. Drop Phlegma from a 40 second cooldown to a 20 second cooldown. Add some quality to each AOE spell that gives it functionality in single target, whether that be something like a mobility button (like Dyskrasia is both your AOE and a DPS neutral mobility spell with a higher MP cost) or adding buff upkeep to a job earned through your AOE attack, or give the AOE attack usable utility against all types of enemies, like adding a mitigation effect to Gravity even if under specific circumstances.

I think 8-10 offensive actions would be perfect, but just taking better advantage of the 4-5 we already have would go a long way.

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Art of War at level 50 has the same potency as Ruin. Not sure with Dyskrasia and Dosis. In my opinion, Art of War potency has to be the same with Broil, given it is the only AoE spell that SCH has that deals damage. Holy needs to be slightly powerful since of its cast time. SGE is fine as it is given that it has a Pneuma, and Phlegma.

Also giving the faerie an offensive counterpart to Embrace will also make SCH dps more interactive. In my wishlist, in addition to lowering the DoT duration to 15 seconds, can be reapplied to get a max of 30 seconds, I proposed that the offensive faerie ability will have a default recast of 6 seconds but is lowered to 3 seconds when the target is suffering from a DoT.. and to give more spice to it, the DoT's duration will be lowered by 3 seconds. Also, Deployment Tactics will have an interaction with DoTs, where it will consume the DoT but deal damage based on the duration of the DoT when it was used.

You can’t do the duration increase up to x seconds with DOTs because of snapshotting.

You are obligated to max the duration during buff windows, reapply it right before buffs end, and cannot reapply the DOT until the duration ends after or you overwrite the buffed potency. It gets really messy.

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Originally Posted by 4clubbedace

new healers that play healers now have as much as a say as ones whove been playing for a decade, seniority doesnt give your words more weight

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As a "new" healer who started playing during 5.3, I agree with what these veteran healers are saying and would love to see the role reworked. I really enjoyed healing while "leveling" but it was also cause I slowly did minimum item-level content with friends and random pfs as I went through the expansions. When I started doing current content it was honestly a whiplash with how you were expected to do 90% of your healing with ogcds. It's clear the healing philosophy was different in just how damage came out in older fights. They encouraged the use of gcds and even stopping dps at times to make sure you had enough resources during certain mechs, (coils, twin, bahamut, thordan, o4s, o8s, shinryu are ones I can think of off the top of my head) and it's a huge reason why I enjoy older fights more tbh. Using aetherflow felt impactful, not something you dumped whenever. Or sometimes physick was just genuinely the more optimal choice due to speed, mana management, and the weave window it gave (not as much with how lvl 90 scales with old content now though tbh).

Like there was probably a level of "we were noobs" that contributed to that at the time, but even when I went back to do old fights with new people, that feeling isn't completely gone despite how lvl 90 stats make healing "easier" now. As someone who LOVED dot smn, I would have absolutely loved sch even more (holy shit I'm so sad I missed that).

Tldr there are plenty of new healers that are unsatisfied with the role as it currently is as well.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

You can’t do the duration increase up to x seconds with DOTs because of snapshotting.

You are obligated to max the duration during buff windows, reapply it right before buffs end, and cannot reapply the DOT until the duration ends after or you overwrite the buffed potency. It gets really messy.

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True although that's where the opportunity cost enters. Should I let the DoT run its entire duration or is it more optimal to use it twice to get the max duration, then either use Deployment/Emergency Tactics or let the faerie attack and double its efficiency? SCHs are known to have all those opportunity costs vs SGE where it is straight-forward.

If we don't get to have more than 1 DoT action, then make it a point that I have to cast it more frequently and have other actions interact with it.

Edit.. I might even include the DoT to have an interaction to Recitation where all ticks will be critical direct hits.

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Originally Posted by Et_ela

[...]Tldr there are plenty of new healers that are unsatisfied with the role as it currently is as well.

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I'm with you there. Started at early/mid 5.2, but didn't took long for me to feel the dissatisfaction by mid 5.4. The learning part was great. It's when we get to the plateau where it becomes... 'barren', for the lack of better words.

Oh how naive of me to think they'd get it right by 6.0 and SGE introduction lmao. Been jaded since then.

I played Zodiark Ex for fun and i did not GCD heal or my Co-healer. In fact my Co-healer, she is a whm, put down that "Notre-Dame" thing and i just DPS away with a OGCD here and there, not for the need ,more for the "hey, i did something, i healed stuff".

A couple of weeks ago i showed my sister, a nurse, after a shift - she could not sleep - the game. I let play her in Hydaelyn ex as SGE to proof to her that there is skill needed .... she beat that thing after 4 wipes. Her comment: class is stupid but the dance is cool aka the mechs in the encounter. Wait there is more..... our GNB was on WHm for that and he is the traditional GNB player.
So yeah.... healers suck, encounter are fun though.
And tanks are not fine ... but hey only when we reach SMN for all jobs peeps will get it.... that without a challenge a victory is meaningless.

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Originally Posted by Et_ela

As a "new" healer who started playing during 5.3, I agree with what these veteran healers are saying and would love to see the role reworked.

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I just want to add my voice in support. I started playing the game in Shadowbringers as a level 1 Conjurer and I started doing high-end content with Asphodelos as a level 90 Sage. I've healed throughout almost the whole of Endwalker. I quite like the design philosophy where my skill expression as a healer is "as much healing as necessary, and as much damage as possible" but the damage side is so boring and shallow.

I've stopped doing roulettes and casual content as healer because there's no gameplay there - I have way more available healing than is needed and no depth in my dps kit. But on a dps job those same roulettes can still be a lot of fun. You don't need to optimise your rotation in order to clear but you do so anyway just for fun.

In high-end content healing can be fun while progging and finding little tricks to squeeze the most value out of your kit, then by the time it comes to reclears all the fun has vanished. I do like Criterion but I can't see myself healing savage any more in Dawntrail.

Never having experienced pre-ShB healer design, I don't want to pretend it was some golden age we need to return to but I've had a recurring experience where I come up with an idea to make healers more fun, I tell my friends, and they say "Oh, that's just like how it was in Stormblood!" '-_-

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Originally Posted by hunter2

I just want to add my voice in support. I started playing the game in Shadowbringers as a level 1 Conjurer and I started doing high-end content with Asphodelos as a level 90 Sage. I've healed throughout almost the whole of Endwalker. I quite like the design philosophy where my skill expression as a healer is "as much healing as necessary, and as much damage as possible" but the damage side is so boring and shallow.

I've stopped doing roulettes and casual content as healer because there's no gameplay there - I have way more available healing than is needed and no depth in my dps kit. But on a dps job those same roulettes can still be a lot of fun. You don't need to optimise your rotation in order to clear but you do so anyway just for fun.

In high-end content healing can be fun while progging and finding little tricks to squeeze the most value out of your kit, then by the time it comes to reclears all the fun has vanished. I do like Criterion but I can't see myself healing savage any more in Dawntrail.

Never having experienced pre-ShB healer design, I don't want to pretend it was some golden age we need to return to but I've had a recurring experience where I come up with an idea to make healers more fun, I tell my friends, and they say "Oh, that's just like how it was in Stormblood!" '-_-

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The “hey guys I have a great idea; yeah yeah that’s just SB healing” is basically one of the two recurring jokes on the healer forums along with “random person comes in says ‘if you want DPS complexity play a DPS’ then proceeds to never respond again”

They are basically the two things that keep the healer forum alive

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Originally Posted by hunter2

I just want to add my voice in support. I started playing the game in Shadowbringers as a level 1 Conjurer and I started doing high-end content with Asphodelos as a level 90 Sage. I've healed throughout almost the whole of Endwalker. I quite like the design philosophy where my skill expression as a healer is "as much healing as necessary, and as much damage as possible" but the damage side is so boring and shallow.

I've stopped doing roulettes and casual content as healer because there's no gameplay there - I have way more available healing than is needed and no depth in my dps kit. But on a dps job those same roulettes can still be a lot of fun. You don't need to optimise your rotation in order to clear but you do so anyway just for fun.

In high-end content healing can be fun while progging and finding little tricks to squeeze the most value out of your kit, then by the time it comes to reclears all the fun has vanished. I do like Criterion but I can't see myself healing savage any more in Dawntrail.

Never having experienced pre-ShB healer design, I don't want to pretend it was some golden age we need to return to but I've had a recurring experience where I come up with an idea to make healers more fun, I tell my friends, and they say "Oh, that's just like how it was in Stormblood!" '-_-

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Not gonna tease you or anything but as far as my experience with healing (ARR, HW, EW... I skipped SB and ShB because I or work), and I will speak only for SCH, I had the most fun with HW.