Difficult experience in Forked Tower – a reminder to respect public content

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

The discords exist to fill a niche where this content can’t be completed without it. If they somehow managed to track and ban the use of discord in this content it wouldn’t free it up for people who don’t want to use discord it would just make the number of clears go to zero which you can see already in that any zone that doesn’t have a discord group In it the changes of a forked party “organically” forming are literally zero

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Well, you have to admit - if no one used Discord, the arguments of the game being too easy would evaporate.

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Originally Posted by Neclord

Take this and replace "Sniper" with "Prog Liar" and make it about PF and this just falls apart. Does the fact a glowy platform is the entrance to the content, rather than a PF menu, mean that players no longer need to show basic courtesy to the majority participants who are entering with a specific objective? These terms are negative by nature because the behaviour for both snipers and prog liars are fundamentally discourteous and selfish.

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Are you being deliberately misleading or do you genuinely not understand the differences between the two classes you are comparing? Your so called "snipers" are just playing the game as it was intended. Your "prog liars" are being deliberately deceptive for their own benefit (and it's probably your own fault for not checking their logs anyway). They are not the same thing, at all.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Which for the 8000th time the discords aren’t trying to organise people in this content for shits and giggles. Like do you really think discord would even be involved if this was CLL 2.0

The discords exist to fill a niche where this content can’t be completed without it. If they somehow managed to track and ban the use of discord in this content it wouldn’t free it up for people who don’t want to use discord it would just make the number of clears go to zero which you can see already in that any zone that doesn’t have a discord group In it the changes of a forked party “organically” forming are literally zero

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And this is the crux of the problem. WHY is content being created for this game that can't be completed without it. If content is legitimately being designed where none of the tools within the game can result in successful completion of said content, that is a problem. Folks pay their subscription for access to all the content XIV provides. Therefore, the content they are paying for should be accessible and playable utilizing the features within the game itself. If the team is creating content that requires so much planning, strategy, and coordination, you have to take to outside applications for success...well, the content shouldn't be in the game to begin with.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

And this is the crux of the problem. WHY is content being created for this game that can't be completed without it.

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Here's the thing - it all can be. People are just unwilling to use those methods because Discord's easier for them.

Case in point, there are deaf players who have not only cleared hardcore content, but have outperformed 99% of players who have no hearing impairment.

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Originally Posted by Anonemoose

Are you being deliberately misleading or do you genuinely not understand the differences between the two classes you are comparing? Your so called "snipers" are just playing the game as it was intended. Your "prog liars" are being deliberately deceptive for their own benefit (and it's probably your own fault for not checking their logs anyway). They are not the same thing, at all.

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I have no idea what you mean. The game allows players to join kill parties in PF when they have no experience with the content - they have a right to join because the game lets them. You shouldn't be expected to become a part of the logging intelligentsia to vet people joining and it quite clearly creates an "us vs them" environment where this 'clique' of loggers look down on a player's god given right to join any party the game allows them to. Take it up with SQEX - it's entirely their fault that PF is this way and it's clearly a design flaw.

Jokes aside, they aren't even require to lie to join a PF party they're not ready for. They simply don't need to read the description of the PF listing and it's the same premise. They join, they try their "best" and they inconvenience others because they are not being considerate.

You hold PF under a different standard because there is an established etiquette of what is and is not acceptable - built over years. That the glowy platform of Occult Crescent is more open to abuse than PF is an issue, but it does not mean the players throwing themselves into the tower are any less discourteous and out of line as a prog liar or someone who didn't check the strats on a PF listing would be.

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Originally Posted by Neclord

I have no idea what you mean. The game allows players to join kill parties in PF when they have no experience with the content - they have a right to join because the game lets them. You shouldn't be expected to become a part of the logging intelligentsia to vet people joining and it quite clearly creates an "us vs them" environment where this 'clique' of loggers look down on a player's god given right to join any party the game allows them to. Take it up with SQEX - it's entirely their fault that PF is this way and it's clearly a design flaw.

Jokes aside, they aren't even require to lie to join a PF party they're not ready for. They simply don't need to read the description of the PF listing and it's the same premise. They join, they try their "best" and they inconvenience others because they are not being considerate.

You hold PF under a different standard because there is an established etiquette of what is and is not acceptable - built over years. That the glowy platform of Occult Crescent is more open to abuse than PF is an issue, but it does not mean the players throwing themselves into the tower are any less discourteous and out of line as a prog liar or someone who didn't check the strats on a PF listing would be.

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For somebody to be a "prog liar" they need to be deliberately misrepresenting their progression in a particular Duty. That particular circumstance alone makes the rest of your post meaningless because you're conflating apples and oranges, and you either know you are but are doing it anyway (which is bad), or you just genuinely don't even understand what you're saying (which is also bad).

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Originally Posted by Akivar

I hate to break it to you discord people. But the content doesn't belong to just you. The content belongs to anyway that pays for the game and pays a subscription. They pay for access to this ride. If you do not like them attempt to ride it, that's on you.
If you dare ever try to harass me for trying to enjoy the content I pay for, I'll report you and hopefully nobody will never have to deal with you ever again.
Discord servers don't own any part of content. It would be like a discord server trying to our the roulette system. Imagine if you got into an alliance raid and a group was all like "hey you can't be here unless you join our discord.". Not one person here would be ok with that. Well Forked tower is basically a roulette to enter. Whoever gets in DESERVES to be there because they were chosen by the entry system. It is not YOUR content, it is everyone that was chosen to enter.
So get over yourselves. You are the ones breaking TOS.

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Boy it sure is a good thing that alliance roulettes aren't nearly so difficult or time consuming to enter that they require such organized efforts, huh Mr. Edgy Revolutionary?

You really dropped by with your first comment and thought you cooked, huh?

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Originally Posted by Anonemoose

For somebody to be a "prog liar" they need to be deliberately misrepresenting their progression in a particular Duty. That particular circumstance alone makes the rest of your post meaningless because you're conflating apples and oranges, and you either know you are but are doing it anyway (which is bad), or you just genuinely don't even understand what you're saying (which is also bad).

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Not the case. A Prog Liar can still be one without being deceptive as they can simply not read the PF listing about the prog point and be "trying their best." This applies to any other form of discourtesy as well (not reading strats/raidplans/etc). The fact is the only material difference is the method of entering the content is a glowy platform vs a PF menu and, of course, the number of players they are inconveniencing with their behaviour (48 vs 7).

You can still retain basic courtesy to other players if the way of entering the content is via a glowy platform. It is possible.

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Originally Posted by Neclord

Not the case. A Prog Liar can still be one without being deceptive as they can simply not read the PF listing about the prog point and be "trying their best." This applies to any other form of discourtesy as well (not reading strats/raidplans/etc). The fact is the only material difference is the method of entering the content is a glowy platform vs a PF menu and, of course, the number of players they are inconveniencing with their behaviour (48 vs 7).

You can still retain basic courtesy to other players if the way of entering the content is via a glowy platform. It is possible.

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Alright then, if that's how you see it. Good luck, I hope you do well in life.

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Originally Posted by Neclord

You hold PF under a different standard because there is an established etiquette of what is and is not acceptable - built over years. That the glowy platform of Occult Crescent is more open to abuse than PF is an issue, but it does not mean the players throwing themselves into the tower are any less discourteous and out of line as a prog liar or someone who didn't check the strats on a PF listing would be.

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I think that's what started this problem in the first place, cuz Field operation's etiquette only has one dungeon and that's BA, so I am not surprised most people who got into FT don't understand that politely asking you to join the premade and interact and read up on the mechs isn't bullying or gatekeeping. It's just the best way you have to clear that particular type of content.

For me, it's this content overall, require consistency and the ffxiv pug is consistently inconsistent. It would be too much coordination to do on the spot when you enter the FT. For example who is alliance 1? Who is alliance B? Who is Alliance C? etc etc.

Then you have then phantom jobs. Who are going to be your time mages? WHo are your knights? Chemists, Bards, Rangers, Thieves, Geos, etc etc for the required jobs and making sure you have back ups for them in case something unexpected or they lose lives?

Do they know all the nuances about the fights? Do you have the personal responsibility to count? (If it's anything that Ivalice Lighthouse has taught me, it's that it not consistent even with the bonuses.)

Do you have an interrupt order for the lockwards to get all that extra sanguine?

Forked Tower has way too many variables for it be reliably cleared by pugs and to try and do it 100 times for the achievement? Is it any surprise people defaulted to discord?

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Originally Posted by Akivar

I hate to break it to you discord people. But the content doesn't belong to just you.

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Nobody is saying it belongs to "discord people". So go ahead and try to PUG it. Nobody is stopping you. :) After you try it, you will quickly discover why people choose to use Discord for it. There is literally no other way to avoid wiping, and acting like there is, is disingenuous.

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

As for leaving people on the floor. That's not OK either, and I would have 'assumed' you knew that. I think you do actually, but you are going to try and gently persuasively propaganda to the contrary.

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Killing them sure, that's not cool, but as far raising or healing them, there's no rules for that. Same way you don't have to heal and raise everyone in a zone. As for entering F'd up tower it's a ridiculous system and on top of that mechanics that's more in line with savage/extremes coordination.

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

Killing them sure, that's not cool, but as far raising or healing them, there's no rules for that. Same way you don't have to heal and raise everyone in a zone. As for entering F'd up tower it's a ridiculous system and on top of that mechanics that's more in line with savage/extremes coordination.

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While there is no rule for that, it's shitty behavior. Obviously can't be reportable / enforcable since they'd have to report every single healers / chemists.

My take on this entire thread.
FT queuing system bad and that's entirely SE's fault
Intentional snipers = Shit thing to do but also not against TOS
Unintentional snipers = Sucks to be them and sucks to be that FT group

As someone who did BA, how SE handled the FT raid is beyond ridiculous. They should have did a normal mode like with DR for story progression, while having a FT Savage version for more challenge/rewards. The instances capped at 72 do NOT help with trying to coordinate the runs either. Should have been at LEAST a cap of 144..

I have no issue people wanting to do FT. You're welcomed to join, but there's a level of personal responsibility involved. You need to be personally prepared as it's not as easy as it sounds. There are a lot of things to know. If you screw up once or twice? You can screw up the entire raid and waste everyone's time that organized everything. Of course people will get mad at randoms. The average, random player will not be prepared or have the necessary things leveled to pull their weight. The average player will not care and blame everyone else for screwing up everything for the rest of the raid.

Yes, it's open to everyone, but I want to see people organize everything on the fly in that case. The entire raid will collapse/fail before progressing far. I know this when BA was fresh and people not part of the alliance raid groups, who have prepared for days/weeks, screw everyone up because they didn't pull their weight..blamed everyone else. Wasted people's time, sub money, and possibly taking off work to tackle the content. Same thing I see happening here.

While what the person said is not okay, they do have a point. You need an organized group for FT and that's just a cold, hard fact. Randoms joining can screw up everyone's time and effort who already did put in the work to learn about what's needed for FT. Don't get mad about it. Blame SE for not making a story version when they should have.

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Originally Posted by Annabellechu

While there is no rule for that, it's shitty behavior. Obviously can't be reportable / enforcable since they'd have to report every single healers / chemists.

My take on this entire thread.
FT queuing system bad and that's entirely SE's fault
Intentional snipers = Shit thing to do but also not against TOS
Unintentional snipers = Sucks to be them and sucks to be that FT group

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In an ideal situation the party should've just invited them, added them into voice chat and not killed them (that's what we did with a sniper). If they refused and died to mechanics then the party has every right to leave them dead as they are now a liability.

the risk of randoms sabotaging your run (unintentionally or not) is way too high, to ress them. Have one of them stroll into a big trap and half of the raid is dead

if they dont know how to play certain boss mechs, they can also wipe out entire groups or the full raid

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

In an ideal situation the party should've just invited them, added them into voice chat and not killed them (that's what we did with a sniper). If they refused and died to mechanics then the party has every right to leave them dead as they are now a liability.

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100%, but based on the responses on this thread, people want to barge their way into organized efforts and not be involved in the organized aspect of it, as if this is somehow punishing SquareEnix and not the players trying to get through it.

Are you saying a third party program should be required to complete this game? If so, what's the difference between that and mods? You are using outside tools to better coordinate. Sounds like you are one step from saying mods should be required to play content. You can do whatever you want in your static content. You can invite and remove anyone you want from your private parties. This is public content, you get no say. Sorry but that was what Square has intended, if you do not like it, yell at Square or don't do it. Violating terms of service by harassing other players and refusing to rez them is not okay. If you did that in roulettes you would be reported. This content is public content just like roulettes. Follow the rules.

L take. Third party programs, in this context, are programs that actually interact with the game client in some way, be it reading info or displaying info. Discord? Discord is communication. It could be literally anything else. Skype, ZOOM, TeamSpeak, you name it. Hell, even Mumble. Comparing mods to using communication channels that are suited to the difficulty level in terms of coordination is disingenuous. There is no ToS violation in not resurrecting someone who is not in your party, especially not one who nearly killed everyone on hallways, and especially not one who ran into a TB because they couldn't be bothered to use their brain for one second.

In roulettes, you may get randoms who are garbage at the game. But: they are in your party, and therefore your responsibility. They also didn't maliciously and willfully steal your 4th or 8th party member's spot.

The people here? Leeches trying their damndest to dig their heels in and whine about how SE made them into antisocial griefers who have no respect for the time and effort invested by the people organizing these runs.

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Originally Posted by Akivar

I hate to break it to you discord people. But the content doesn't belong to just you. The content belongs to anyway that pays for the game and pays a subscription. They pay for access to this ride. If you do not like them attempt to ride it, that's on you.
If you dare ever try to harass me for trying to enjoy the content I pay for, I'll report you and hopefully nobody will never have to deal with you ever again.
Discord servers don't own any part of content. It would be like a discord server trying to our the roulette system. Imagine if you got into an alliance raid and a group was all like "hey you can't be here unless you join our discord.". Not one person here would be ok with that. Well Forked tower is basically a roulette to enter. Whoever gets in DESERVES to be there because they were chosen by the entry system. It is not YOUR content, it is everyone that was chosen to enter.
So get over yourselves. You are the ones breaking TOS.

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So much from passion from someone who hasn't cleared anything lol

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Originally Posted by Akivar

Are you saying a third party program should be required to complete this game? If so, what's the difference between that and mods? You are using outside tools to better coordinate. Sounds like you are one step from saying mods should be required to play content. You can do whatever you want in your static content. You can invite and remove anyone you want from your private parties. This is public content, you get no say. Sorry but that was what Square has intended, if you do not like it, yell at Square or don't do it. Violating terms of service by harassing other players and refusing to rez them is not okay. If you did that in roulettes you would be reported. This content is public content just like roulettes. Follow the rules.

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“Do you think third party programs should be required to complete this”

IDK, ask square. They are the ones who made content that functionally requires discord to make any meaningful progress. You are just arguing from a flawed base here because the discords aren’t preventing public pugging. They are making the content possible for anyone to clear

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

“Do you think third party programs should be required to complete this”

IDK, ask square. They are the ones who made content that functionally requires discord to make any meaningful progress. You are just arguing from a flawed base here because the discords aren’t preventing public pugging. They are making the content possible for anyone to clear

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Given there are limited occurrences of the content, are not Discords preventing public pugging by "reserving" all the time-slots and kicking out interlopers?

I guess it's somewhat academic in the sense a pug group forming organically is pretty unlikely, but FCs might attempt it.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Given there are limited occurrences of the content, are not Discords preventing public pugging by "reserving" all the time-slots and kicking out interlopers?

I guess it's somewhat academic in the sense a pug group forming organically is pretty unlikely, but FCs might attempt it.

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On an average peak hour day there can be up to 15 OC instances open at the same time, more if you count other DC’s

Even the most prolific discords rarely run more than maybe 5 runs concurrently

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

On an average peak hour day there can be up to 15 OC instances open at the same time, more if you count other DC’s

Even the most prolific discords rarely run more than maybe 5 runs concurrently

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Wow. Didn't occur to me there were so many people engaging with it. Oh well, that'll keep SE happy to the point they'll likely do it all again in 8.X.

Also might explain why FL queues have gotten so long on Aether.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Given there are limited occurrences of the content, are not Discords preventing public pugging by "reserving" all the time-slots and kicking out interlopers?

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Most of the time, you're not likely to see discord runs in an instance you're in. And it's likely only going to be at peak hours.

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I guess it's somewhat academic in the sense a pug group forming organically is pretty unlikely, but FCs might attempt it.

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That could be possible for sure. I've been in FCs that have done complete Alliance Raid runs on release as an FC, for example. But then of course we circle back to how most FCs have a discord server and then suddenly it's a villain too.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Most of the time, you're not likely to see discord runs in an instance you're in. And it's likely only going to be at peak hours.
That could be possible for sure. I've been in FCs that have done complete Alliance Raid runs on release as an FC, for example. But then of course we circle back to how most FCs have a discord server and then suddenly it's a villain too.

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I think that primarily illustrates the inadequacies of in-game comm options.

We should blame square enix for this because they are the ones that came up with the awful entry conditions for forked combined with the level of difficulty that makes blind pugging with randoms impossible

I’m not sure how that connects to “hardcore people treat casuals like pariahs so we should treat them like pariahs”

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

This is super disappointing to hear, given I thought you were one of the "good" hardcore players out there that didn't treat casuals like lepers you wanted to expunge from content (if not the whole game), and then you literally engage in willfully exclusionary behavior. "Just so you know, we don't want you here and will happily leave you for dead." *Acts shocked when the people they glowered at and threatened don't want to talk to them further.*

I also can't get over how hardcore players keep doing the "We should blame Square-Enix for this!" And then proceed to come up with excuses to blame casuals anyway (still love how you all think it was casuals that caused all the job changes and not all the boss DDR), while creating methods to punish casuals for existing in the meantime.

At this point its justified why more casuals don't want to "git gud" if it means playing with people like YOU in the future, and the only regret is that the wall isn't higher in certain places so casuals can avoid hardcore players entirely even in normal content, because if hardcore players are going to insist on there being a divide, it seems only right that hardcore players should be shunned out of casual spaces and treated like pariahs as well, and then you can run off and "blame Square-Enix" for the environment you helped to create and then fostered with your own attitude and actions.

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The thread, OP, and the person you quoted made no mention or implication regarding a "casual vs hardcore" mentality. This is just trying to cause a divide where its irrelevant, if it even exists.

Also the person you quoted did not say anything hostile whatsoever, and simply explained the issue that OP refused to communicate in a scenario where communication is essential, and as a result caused their own deaths.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I’m not sure how that connects to “hardcore people treat casuals like pariahs so we should treat them like pariahs”

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Some people will see an opportunity to absolutely hate on those they dislike using any amount of justification they can. SE making the content the way they have sadly opened up this avenue for members of the community to draw knives and start stabbing at each other like this was the opportunity they've been waiting for. Not all, of course, but some. OP started this thread with some shady accusations, one of the people who were there came in to refute it and some people just looked at it and went "nah, you're awful" and threw out the rebuttal without even reading it properly or in good faith like the post above yours.

This thread is a lot funnier when you realise a lot of people here are pushing 40 arguing why it's okay to kill randoms and bm their corpse in a video game because their discord buddies didn't get into the raid

We are reaching unhinged rant levels of messages here, like most of your points don’t even make any sense

Hardcore players didn’t like chaotic, theres a reason it died on launch. Because everyone and their mum wanted BA ozma but instead got 24 man savage. Same as body checks. The overwhelming negative response to EW’s body check galore is why DT’s savages are actually better. This just echos the discussion around the hairstyle in chaotic in 7.1. People who didn’t do chaotic or weren’t interesting for some reason thought that just because square targeted the content too high and went into savage territory that savage people had to like it or had to be grateful they were being content at the expense of the casuals when the hardcore players didn’t want it either

Who wanted what job design is debatable. More hardcore players are responsible for the lowering of the ceiling of a lot of jobs (make buffs align by default feedback in ShB as an example) but casual players are also responsible for the lowering of the skill floors (I play a WAR and if I even have to pretend there is a healer in this dungeon I’m reporting everyone). Neither has no responsibility but that’s to be expected in a fluid community. There is also just the fact that square is awful at responding to feedback in a useful way

However none of this is relevant to the fact that screaming hardcore vs casual isn’t the problem that’s going on here. The discords are fine to accept anyone and they will try to help. It’s just “join run that was organised 4 days in advance at the expense of someone who organised then rely on said organisation to clear” isn’t the “right” way to interact with people trying to get the content completed. You shouldn’t be attacked if you do join but you also have to admit you are benefiting from their organisation while also hindering it. It’s your right to enter the content, it’s not your right to enter the content and benefit from pre organisation that you didn’t help with

The discords aren’t intentionally excluding anyone out of a weird “I’m a hardcore player so I’m better than you”. They are trying to minimise the chance the run fails due to random player wildcards. “Sniper” is just a colloquial term from BA discourse. Few people actually mean it in an intentionally offensive way

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

It’s your right to enter the content, it’s not your right to enter the content and benefit from pre organisation that you didn’t help with

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Except that's how the system is set up. Clearly the INTENT is to allow a grab bag of randos to blindly stumble their way to victory rather than just premade groups galore. I get that that doesn't really WORK, but it's clearly still the INTENT, so waving around the word "rights" as if it's some set-in-stone rule feels like an overblown way to self-justify the hostility on display.

The amount of "if you even POTENTIALLY inconvenience me it's ok for me to be a jerk to you" in this thread is really, really troubling.

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Originally Posted by Tyintheron

Except that's how the system is set up. Clearly the INTENT is to allow a grab bag of randos to blindly stumble their way to victory rather than just premade groups galore. I get that that doesn't really WORK, but it's clearly still the INTENT, so waving around the word "rights" as if it's some set-in-stone rule feels like an overblown way to self-justify the hostility on display.

The amount of "if you even POTENTIALLY inconvenience me it's ok for me to be a jerk to you" in this thread is really, really troubling.

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Yes it’s intended for a grab bag of randoms to complete it even if that doesn’t work at all.

However there is a difference between “grab bag of randoms” and fully organised run where 1-2 spaces is taken by a random. If “grab bag of randoms” actually worked the organisation wouldn’t be necessary anyway

As the person who responded to OP stated they still offered a hand but in a grab bag of randoms nobody owes you anything anyway beyond bot actively griefing. Especially since the person who replied to OP showed OP died due to their own mistake, nobody killed them

So by the standards of grab bag of randoms the organised group did nothing wrong anyway

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Originally Posted by Tyintheron

Except that's how the system is set up. Clearly the INTENT is to allow a grab bag of randos to blindly stumble their way to victory rather than just premade groups galore. I get that that doesn't really WORK, but it's clearly still the INTENT, so waving around the word "rights" as if it's some set-in-stone rule feels like an overblown way to self-justify the hostility on display.

The amount of "if you even POTENTIALLY inconvenience me it's ok for me to be a jerk to you" in this thread is really, really troubling.

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This is a really good summary.

Some sort of flow chart might be useful to best illustrate this, but roughly:

Casual content drops in OC --> the capstone is FT --> the entry method is (a really bad) FFA --> BA veterans realize this is not puggable --> Discords create mega-statics --> unaware randos have the temerity to attempt to engage with FT --> mega-statics justify ToS violations on the grounds SE produced awful content again.

Everyone should stop organizing runs and let the illustrious citizens of this thread do Forked Tower the way they say it was intended. Pure, unplanned, uncommunicated. I would love to see all the clears roll in.

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Originally Posted by Atreus

Everyone should stop organizing runs and let the illustrious citizens of this thread do Forked Tower the way they say it was intended. Pure, unplanned, uncommunicated. I would love to see all the clears roll in.

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Maybe the illustrious citizens just want to see inside the gate.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Maybe the illustrious citizens just want to see inside the gate.

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I mean I know you are saying that mockingly but this returns to the idea that people are acting like discords are actively blocking entry to this content

If you just wanna go in, gawk at the scenery then leave it shouldn’t be that hard to force forked open with equally interested randoms in any of the 17 instances that have auroral mirages up

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I mean I know you are saying that mockingly but this returns to the idea that people are acting like discords are actively blocking entry to this content

If you just wanna go in, gawk at the scenery then leave it shouldn’t be that hard to force forked open with equally interested randoms in any of the 17 instances that have auroral mirages up

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I can imagine how people might perceive that Discords are doing precisely that, particularly given the frustration and disappointment currently pervading the non-raiding community.

After the fiasco of CAR, Cosmic Explo, and now FT, the number of interested randoms in any content in FFXIV has fallen off a cliff.

So in that sense the problem has solved itself.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

I can imagine how people might perceive that Discords are doing precisely that, particularly given the frustration and disappointment currently pervading the non-raiding community.

After the fiasco of CAR, Cosmic Explo, and now FT, the number of interested randoms in any content in FFXIV has fallen off a cliff.

So in that sense the problem has solved itself.

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I mean that is not remotely the discords fault and I’d argue some of that is even developer playerbase mismatch the playerbase is attributing to each other.

Cosmic was totally fine as casual content. It makes sense that A ranks are harder, not engaging with the higher A ranks doesn’t block you from anything. Just because content is causal doesn’t mean 100% of it should be totally accessible to the lowest common denominator. Cosmic struck a really good balance there as literally the only thing not accessible to super casual people is the achievement for Golding every mission. Like even the “of the stars” titles can be earned from B ranks if you want. As for chaotic this seems to have devolved into casuals angry that the high end community was prioritised over them without realising the high end community doesn’t like chaotic either and yet somehow this is the high end community’s fault?

As for forked itself that just circles back to the original problem. If you can’t get enough people even randomly to force forked open then how can you also be mad at the discords for filling squares own void of content design