This right here is why people did not want them to add jump. These are the kind of skills morons would use over and over and over and over until nobody wanted to be around them anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by TimonLoon
Aside from jump I would like each job to have a way to get in and out danger quickly. Lemme run through some things I envisioned in my head.
BRD - OoT Sidestep/Backflips/Forward jump. Needs to jump a few feet to be useful and can be used every 2 seconds. Backward jump needs to jump farther than the side jumps since its main purpose is to get you in proper range for combo. Think of this scenario: Heavy Shot -> Forward Jump -> Quick Nock -> Backward Jump -> Rain Song. You have hate on a mob you're trying to kill (Shadowbind is on cooldown. A lot of BRDs forget about this move btw): Backward Jump -> Start combo -> Kill mob.
BLM - Short range teleport. This obviously needs a longer cooldown but it would render the caster completely invincible and teleport them forward. About the same distance as Elusive Jump.
DRG - Elusive Jump is already in. They're good. Only thing I can see that would be fucking awesome would be a Super Jump that keeps them in the air for 3-5 seconds thus making them completely impervious to damage. Maybe even Super Jump before primal two hour to avoid it... I mean you could technically do it in older FFs already... Think Garuda (FF3 NES/DS).
MNK - They're agile/nimble so this will make sense... Sidestep around the mob quickly. Would help with getting in position for combos and to get out of a frontal attack.
WAR - Roll. Simple. Or they could go the WoW route and take that Warrior ability where they jump forward and stomp the ground - stunning enemies and gaining agro.
PLD - A roll but when they get back to a standing position it procs a block (animation as well).
WHM - This is the tricky one... What would work? How about the WoW route? They leech a target player and pull them out of danger. lol
I personally would love to see any and all of these in play. It won't instantly turn the game into an action game but it'll give players more options as to how they get in and out of certain situations.
- Kurokikaze
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07-07-2012, 04:48 AMKioteThis right here is why people did not want them to add jump. These are the kind of skills morons would use over and over and over and over until nobody wanted to be around them anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by TimonLoon
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07-07-2012, 05:08 AMNoxthis is a wonderful Idea and One they will probably have to implement if they intend to make PVP fun (or at least they will probably implement some skills similar to these. How they haven't added skills like these yet to the game is beyond me. Although I can see how adding skills like these will make the game more "action" based, which apparently is something yoshida wants to avoid.Quote:
Originally Posted by TimonLoon
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07-07-2012, 05:29 AMMasamune1004I want jumping achievements! Jump 1, 10, 100, 1k etc. times and get an achievement! /trollmodeQuote:
Originally Posted by Okipuit
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07-07-2012, 05:35 AMShurrikhanLove these, though I'd like to see the same kind of class distinction used in basic 'jump' uses as well, i.e. Spacebar, and maybe some of these as a Shift Space-bar. For example:Quote:
Originally Posted by TimonLoon
[Quick note: All abilities follow a hidden resource (stamina) bar. Most types of actions can be used continuously, but at higher cost for each additional use. The resource for some specials will be partly separate from regulars, especially when the actions are drastically different. All things requiring "locked-on target" can be switched to simply requiring a "target".]
Monk / Pugilist - animation similar to their current dashing animation. Short ICD compared to most classes.
Space: When locked on, circles the enemy with a dash to the side, closing in, backing up, or both lateral and forward movement. Movement per step has a maximum distance of about 10 ft + variable, and max angle necessary to move from from front to side, side to back, etc. When not locked on, it will move directly left/right/forward/backward/diagonal. Flows most visually into abilities like Dragon Kick, Concussive Blow, Sucker Punch, etc.
[Distance likely based on STR/DEX equally. Cooldown based on DEX (1), MND (2).]
Shift: Activates a short teleport to a nearby target on next dash. Will appear on the far side (W), close side (S), to the left (A), or to the right (D) according to the button pressed after. If melee attacked by the target before the teleport is used, the teleport will be consumed to create a sort of side-flipping dodge, automatically activated by the attack. Either one must be used within 2 seconds.
[Distance and chance of dodge activation success based on PTY/MND. Dodge success chance after activating, regardless of animation, is based on DEX (1), STR (2).]
Bard / Archer - focus on distant maneuvering and breaking deadlocks when able. Comparatively long ICDs.
Space: Flip to side, front, or back. Conical AoEs made while in midair have no minimum yalm factor and will strike more circularly if the target is near the point of the jump.
Shift: Creates a dash. Follows a hidden stamina resource, with higher cost per second with each second used. Pairs with regular jump to make a long leap, no flip unless near the target.
Dragoon / Lancer - something of a mix between Monk and Bard, almost.
Space: Charges towards a target or flanking the target. Jumps (barely off ground) and slides back on (S). Hidden momentum counter, diminishing quickly after last usage. Charge distance and attack range increased by momentum.
Shift: Turns next Charge into a Leaping strike. Cannot flank. Can leap over allies for improved collusion-like mechanics. Dragoons also have access to a second tier (Shift-Shift), which replaces the current "Jump" and "Elusive Jump". Locked on will act as "Jump" and not locked on or moving in a direction away from the locked-on target will provide "Elusive Jump."
Etc, etc.
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Like Kurokikaze I don't think this will make the game more like an action game. Simply having quicker and more intuitive controls does not make something "action" styled. It just means you have better control, and in this case more options, more precision, and therefore more strategy available to you.
I understand that playing with lesser resources does make a sort of concessional strategic mindset of it's own, but as Nox has mentioned the point of 2.0 is to be responsive. Combat is being revamped again, combat regimen is being revamped and reintroduced. I think this could play a part in it without being obnoxiously unfitting. -
07-07-2012, 05:42 AMSerah_Leonheart
So I have a question about the beta testing. I've been playing since this game originally came out and am a part of the Legacy Campaign, does being apart of the that campaign automatically allow you to be part of the beta testing or is there something you have to do to become a part of that?
Also will we be able to transfer the characters we make in beta over to 2.0 when it starts up? Otherwise why would we put so much effort into the beta character if we don't get to keep it? Just wondering. -
07-07-2012, 06:00 AMCarzilla
Jumping should be limited to the obsticles you come across, if there is a ledge low enough walking towards the ledge should initiate an auto jump. That way the terrain desIdes where jumping occurres and people cannot spam jump AND a jump button is not required!
Like in Zelda oot
No spamming or button mapping -
07-07-2012, 06:06 AMAlerith
A 1 second build up where you run slightly faster, a jump with a landing where you're keep running and slow back to normal running speed.
Whole process should take 4-5 seconds. -
07-07-2012, 06:07 AMDeadRiserIt's called having a cooldown. Like Elusive Jump.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiote
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07-07-2012, 06:13 AMElexiaNope, if anything there's a good chance they'll have a sign up and take in people who aren't/haven't been playing FFXIV. While they said they want to try to get legacy members in, there's still a good chance not everyone will get in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Serah_Leonheart
No. Your 1.x character is being transferred.Quote:
Also will we be able to transfer the characters we make in beta over to 2.0 when it starts up?
Beta test = Testing and relaying feed back.Quote:
Otherwise why would we put so much effort into the beta character if we don't get to keep it? Just wondering.
Beta test =/= head start and early preview.
That's where people got confused because of companies disguising demos as 'betas' to cover their asses if something ends up as broken during the demo. "Oh it's just a beta!" -
07-07-2012, 06:40 AMDargoth_DraconiaIf I wish to jump every second I should be able too. The people that don't want jumping perhaps they could just make it where you can't use jump inside main cities. I really wouldn't be bothered by that. Though I am bothered by a cool down on jump.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
"ALSO REMEMBER THIS" Jump is being designed for 2.0 and not the current game engine (even if they decided to give it to us in this model for fun). The game looks and feels realistic simply from the screen shots, they want it to have a realistic feel as well by not limiting our types of movement. So with that being said understand that they will likely make it look fluid and feel right and not be a silly bunny hop that drives some of the people crazy for unknown silly reasons. Trust in Yoshi-P and get off the whole "omg WoW has jump you are copying WoW" mind set. -
07-07-2012, 06:57 AMCamAlchJump used for getting around obstacles? Great. Jump used in combat? No thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Okipuit
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07-07-2012, 06:59 AMArchon_DiabolosActive mode :Quote:
Originally Posted by Okipuit
Sidestep to next nearest side of target within weapon range (i.e. front to side, side to back ) no jumping, nothing crazy
Passive mode :
An after jump landing animation of 2 seconds with a momentary reduction in forward momentum. I leave it to the imagination of the developers for its use in the environment. -
07-07-2012, 07:00 AMLux_Rayna
Maybe I'm a bit selfish but I do want a bit of the console-rpg feel. So more about positioning and less about kiting, jumping, rolling, Call of Duty mash attack button gameplay. I mean I know thats the trend with games now, but I'm just sayin. The whole positioning and stronger mobs thing is what made FF so unique among MMO's. All the dodging and rolling would make the combo system a mess.
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07-07-2012, 07:11 AMViritess
I won't mind jumping but its the type of jumping thats more important to me i guess.
I want to see a jump that (with animations) could be describe more of a "long jump" or leap. Where your character has to actually bend the knees and push off for near max height and distance.
What i like less is the tendency towards short little "hops" that resemble a person playing jump rope or hoping over a puddle. Where the character seems to make no effort and thus doesn't jump very high or far. Which makes the jump itself seem all but useless. And in the least, unimpressive.
I like the idea of Exploration with jumping. But if the jump we recive is only good for hoping over a small crack in the ground, why bother?
But if we jump for distance and height, they could place some really interesting gaps and spaces between things that make us muster our courage, and watch as we long jump over an much larger gap. That could be fun.
I'm not asking for mario jumping. But if we suspend disbelief and look at say, our Olympic athelets jumping 6 or so feet. I don't see how our magical realm characters could do atleast that to jump from cliff to cliff where the buttom is filled with rageful tonberries. That could be fun! ^^ -
07-07-2012, 07:27 AMKamikazeMan
Please add obstacles in the world. Maybe throw in some platforms or a climbable mountain (via jumping and walking slowly) and throw rewards at the end of these obstacles or maybe special enemies we can fight.
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07-07-2012, 07:39 AMSerah_LeonheartBut in the interview he said it wouldn't be necessarily legacy members playing it but why would there be any point to people who aren't/haven't played FFXIV. That shouldn't happen. Someone who's at least played it should be beta testing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elexia
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07-07-2012, 07:47 AMAlerithThat...doesn't really make sense. Beta tests are played by people haven't played the game before. That's why it's a beta test, usually before it's actual release.Quote:
Originally Posted by Serah_Leonheart
XIV is a special case I suppose, but I wouldn't be opposed to people playing who haven't touched 1.0. Fresh eyes, so to speak. -
07-07-2012, 07:49 AMPyretta_Blaze
I would suspect that it is going to be a subset of currently subscribed players in the beta possibly alongside some sort of random beta key giveaway. I doubt that they are planning on handing out a ton of keys to people who never played before.
I think their comment means that you are not guaranteed a beta key just because you are a legacy member . -
07-07-2012, 08:14 AMAhntone
Jumping. Ugh.
It should have absolutely no use or affect on combat. Please. That's one step in the direction of making this some fast-paced action game that XIV is NOT. Honestly, if that is what you are looking for I hear TERA is looking for subscribers.
Outside of combat it should be simply a cosmetic animation. It lets you get over little cliffs if you don't feel like walking around them or hop down to a lower area. Mainly so it doesn't look like how someone described it earlier where "you are magnetically stuck to the ground".
Also I think the height for each race should be normal looking and not some exaggerated zero-g jump. -
07-07-2012, 08:14 AMSwordCoheirAs it is people are going to use ledge jumping as a method to kite-kill mobs with poor pathing AI. You know it's gonna happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by CamAlch
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07-07-2012, 08:49 AMLilaAquillina
My .02 gil:
Yes, please, let it be a feature to make getting around easier. Let me jump down ledges/up short ledges, over branches, etc.
No, I don't want it used in combat, and I do not want a platformer. I guess it'd be cool, but tbh, every MMO that i've seen that tried putting in 'platformer' sections has just succeeded at annoying me. -
07-07-2012, 09:41 AMViritessI really like the idea of added "positioning" skills, not sure if they are totally in relation to jump, but since you posted a fair list, i'll add my thoughts. While i'm not totally sure about Jumping in and out of ranges, i would love to see some attacks/skills that change or move your position or effect the enemy. Most of these suggestions were centered aroundQuote:
Originally Posted by TimonLoon
DRG- I had once posted an idea for a skill in which you would "leap" over the enemy, stab down with your spear and then end up facing their back. Kind of a summer sault with some stabby.
MNK- A hard kick to the back of the knee, which would either turn the enemy placing you on its flank, or atleast make their front count as a flank also for a few seconds.
Even with a longish cool down some positional/position changing skills would be really awesome to 1: quickly pull off a WS or WS combo or 2: get out of the bad stuff AND make that an advantage. -
07-07-2012, 10:44 AMKujinRenI would like jump to be used for more than just a cosmetic feature. I'd like to see jump implemented into combat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Okipuit
Example:
Let's say that during the Primal Leviathan encounter, the entire raid is standing on top of a huge rock in the middle of a vast blue ocean. Leviathan will occasionally use an ability that summons boiling water beneath your feet. By using the jump feature, you can avoid this mechanic reduce overall damage taken from the encounter.
Example 2:
Let's say that during the Primal Titan encounter, his 2-hour ability consists of jumping high in the air an stomps down to an earthquake. By having our characters jump, we can avoid the effect of "Knockdown" that lasts for 5 seconds, which can be dangerous as he will continue to throw huge boulders in the direction of ring animations that appear beneath your feet.
Example 3:
Final Fantasy has always been about huge epic looking bosses that take your breath away. Bosses are usually accessed through a epic stairway in a throne room or in space. Perhaps have an encounter that requires a bunch of jumping to higher platforms as the fight progresses, until you reach the top of a luminous battlefield. By not jumping to higher platforms during phase changes, you will be consumed by some random mechanic that kills you.
Thank you for taking the time to read my 2 cents!
Edit: If Square Enix ever considers some type of "Golden Saucer", the jump can be used for many of the mini games in game! -
07-07-2012, 10:51 AMTimonLoonI meant that as an extra to the combat system but it's movement related which is also jump related so I posted it here. I want more position changing skills and jump to be used in and out of combat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Viritess
- Kurokikaze -
07-07-2012, 11:02 AMViritessOh i'm not really disagreeing with you as i liked the ideas. I'm just less of a fan of a non cool down Jump being too useful in combat. See the absurdity of bunny hoping pvpness. (in my opinion) If standard jump is useful in combat without a cool down there is rarely any reason to not always jump. Those are the concerns i tend to hold when a "standard" style of jumping becomes combat utility.Quote:
Originally Posted by TimonLoon
Now if you more or less mean a Jump > Dodge mechanic i can see it. In essence that is basiclly what GW2 has made. I'm just not sure FF14 is really built to be that style of game. -
07-07-2012, 11:05 AMAlhanelemThere is no need to jump literally every second other than to be obnoxious and give the people that don't want jump a reason to complain. Really, there isn't. You're just being defiant for the sake of being defiant. I don't feel like jumping can be acceptably put into combat without at least a few seconds cooldown. Otherwise it would be too easy to use to avoid things.Quote:
If I wish to jump every second I should be able too.
I want jumping and I want it to be useful. But like most people, I don't care to see constant bouncing without any reason.
By your logic- If I want to cast freeze burst and flare every second, I should be able to. -
07-07-2012, 11:15 AMRalliareEnvironmental challenges only.Quote:
Originally Posted by Okipuit
Adding in Combat based jumping would only cause greater problems when latency is concerned. -
07-07-2012, 11:19 AMNefarioCall
I haven't read the topic, but i'll put in my opinion to add to the pile.
I think jump allows for all kinds of dynamic gameplay.
Think of the cliff walk mission in FFXI. It was something memorable and a little bit different.
Jumping can allow access to secret areas that might not be readily visable,
or perhaps provide some plat-forming elements in an instanced dungeon (moving platforms etc).
The last boss in Star Ocean 2 had this attack where terribly powerful ground waves would come outward from him. Jumping would avoid the damage. Things like this could apply to combat.
Whatever you do, it's a tremendous game play opportunity.
Use it in some way. -
07-07-2012, 11:43 AMFallenRaine
Please don't add battle jump yea some could call it more realistic because you wouldn't sit there and get hit if you could get out the way.
But just think of all the lag issues that won't get fixed with this. What if more than 1 person jumps beside you in combat? maybe the other will jump and not get hit and maybe you'll just get lag killed even if you push jump. -
07-07-2012, 02:43 PMejibooi like many aspects of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by TimonLoon
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07-07-2012, 02:53 PMAlerithI agree with your post....but Gath's .02 gil is still worth more than your .02 gil.Quote:
Originally Posted by LilaAquillina
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07-07-2012, 03:25 PMmbncd
I'm sorry if this has already been brought up but there have been too many posts for me to read as of now (though I'd like to go back and read the rest when I have more time!)... What about the rest of the body when our characters jump? Has any mention been made of grabbing ledges above and the like? It might look ridiculous to jump higher than our knees but jumping that high and then grabbing hold of something significantly higher has a huge impact on possible uses for jump. It would allow much more exploration or you could just dangle from a ledge until a monster moves away.
I'm also with the group against jump spamming. We already see people running in circles all over the place whenever they have to stay put for even a minute; they'll do the exact same thing with jumping, if not more so. If we can't eliminate such actions with cool downs or outright block it in certain areas (like some have mentioned blocking it in cities), can we please get an optional inability to see players doing that sort of thing (like an ignore function that makes them disappear from our screens altogether)? It gives me a physical headache. I have a sensory integration disorder which makes it impossible to avoid focusing on movement and other things like that, so trying to tear my attention back to what I need to be doing while someone's running laps of the area gives me a bad headache pretty quickly; and politely expressing that to others only encourages troll-like behaviour resulting in them running in circles around me like malicious clowns who don't know when to drop a joke... As a result, the ability to block such behaviour from my fun experience of the game would be a very welcome element indeed. Let them run and jump all they want, just don't make others watch. -
07-07-2012, 08:00 PMScratchesAnd there is no need to restrict jumping every second, other than to be obnoxious and give the people that like jumping a reason to complain. That kind of logic works both ways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
And who says that jumping being useful in combat automatically = avoiding damage? I've been following the thread since Oki's call, and people here are needlessly jumping (hah) to ridiculous conclusions, seemingly in an effort to discredit the entire concept of jumping in their beloved game all because they feel it would "destroy the spirit of the game" or whatever nonsense.
Perhaps you have actual reasons -- some grounded, non-outlandish, carefully considered examples -- to provide as to why you don't want jumping in combat, towns, or wherever; some real concerns to actually foster an intelligent discussion, instead of plugging your ears, spouting hyperbole, and screaming, "NO NO DO NOT WANT LALALALALALA!"?
If you really want to help Oki and the dev team do their jobs, then that's how to do it.
Not by vomiting mindless, useless vitriol like this:
Seriously, if that's all you guys are going to do, Oki would have been better off just making a poll...Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
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07-07-2012, 09:43 PMRumpelstiltzkinI really like these examples including the edit. Together with having jump as a way to get to secret areas (which is something I really want to be in the game) I think it would be great.Quote:
Originally Posted by KujinRen
I wouldn't mind seeing jump "abilities" as an element to make positioning easier in combat, but for me it is not as important.
Either way though if jump is added I would like it to be integrated and used to its full potential (or at least in some way because I am sure what "full potential" means is different for all of us), just having it in the game for the sake of being able to say "FFXIV has jump" when marketing 2.0 feels meaningless to me. -
07-07-2012, 09:55 PMNakiamiieThere is a need for jumping every second if someone wants to do so. It goes together with being able to spam emotes if someone wants to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
Your example with freeze and flare is wrong as you are comparing attacks (something that affects game-play balance) with a jumping usage comparable to emotes in that circumstance (out of combat, for pure enjoyment -- jumping every second for no other reason than jump every second -- even in combat, if you are desperately trying to avoid something but got the timing wrong, but that would be temporary and not every second).
Of course, some of you will say that it's annoying, but so is people spamming active/passive mode in town to show off their weapons, or shouting in town to recruit people instead of using the search feature, or character wearing outfit that a blatantly out of fashion, or for people to simply exist, or ... you get my point. Players should just continue on their journey when that happens and in the end they don't truly care.
I'd like to be able to jump every second when I'm trying to get a cool screen-shot or whatever other reason I feel is good enough. It doesn't have to be in front of anybody's face either, what if I do it alone in the middle of nowhere? See, we should be allowed to do so.
People who dislike it should just shrug it off an be on their way and if they happen to encounter someone doing it. Nothing forces them to remain there and stare at that person. They can rotate their camera to another angle if they have to, it also offers new perspective on the world which is great to do once in a while.
Bottom line is, if we were to restrict every single thing that annoys people, there would be as many FFXIV as there are players or FFXIV wouldn't exist at all.
That said, we should support a free form of jumping with no restriction. I do. -
07-07-2012, 10:24 PMAevril
Since it is confirmed jumping is in the game i hope they make it useful for getting around. If they fix the lag problem in 2.0 I wouldn't have an issue with it being integrated with combat, but if the lag stays ugh well.. it is frustrating enough dying on the other side of the map waaay out of AOEs range. I dont want any "Sorry although your screen showed you jumped at the right time and in the right place we are still going to blow your character up/port you/make you look like a noob because you live too far away from the server"
But if that problem is fixed then why not, maybe it can even become an excuse to avoid BLM burning every single fight in the game :P -
07-07-2012, 11:20 PMTonkraQuote:
These primals will be somewhere in the open world, roaming,and players will need to find them and then get together to defeat the primals. If they win and are the first to defeat it, the primal will come under their (temporary) control.
i dont know if i like that part..
so there will be no primae instance anymore? the primaes will "roam" within the openworld?
primaes -> openworld raidbosses?
or how will it work? -
07-07-2012, 11:47 PMMajidahI'd like for jumping to be used to access to secret areas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Okipuit
In battle it'd be cool to use it to avoid obstacles or aoes (ifrit's cracks, avoid by triggering jump in the right moment?).
I'd love it if we could fight some sort of giant which we could jump on its limbs in order to reach its weak spot or something of the sort. -
07-08-2012, 01:07 AMAlhanelemActually, you'd be wrong. It doesn't work both ways- there ARE needs to restrict jumping every second. Not jumping every second is NOT being obnoxious (first point disproven) doesn't give most people who like jumping a reason to complain (second point disproven), AND, makes the use of jumping in combat more strategic by making it so you have to time your jump, rather than just bounce all the time and probably avoid what's avoidable.Quote:
And there is no need to restrict jumping every second, other than to be obnoxious and give the people that like jumping a reason to complain. That kind of logic works both ways.
You can't have your cake and eat it too. I honestly would prefer as much function and as few limitations as possible on jumping. However, I also don't want to see other player's exeperiences made less pleasant. I don't think if will be as big of a problem as the haters say it will be, but bunny hopping really isn't a good thing and it should be minimized if all possible. A few seconds cooldown (A FEW SECONDS- count em 1 2 3 - we're not talking 30 seconds or a minute here) lets you basically jump as much as you want without allowing it to get too ridiculous. I don't understand how anyone could be against this. It would also avert animation breaking- if you can jump again the instant you touch the ground, it would very likely disrupt the landing animation.Quote:
There is a need for jumping every second if someone wants to do so. It goes together with being able to spam emotes if someone wants to.
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07-08-2012, 01:57 AMkaarinraistQuote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
I can see where you are coming from with MOST of that, (for the most part), but by the same token of your argument, disrupting the way those players that want to bunny hop around town and stuff infringes on THEIR experience. I remember playing a game a long time ago with a certain fairy that followed me around and I didn't HAVE to tuck and roll everywhere, I could run.... but sometimes JUST FOR FUN, I could tuck and roll through the fields to get to the castle. It's something that made it fun FOR ME. You'd be taking that away from me because it bothers you.
Keep in mind this would have little to no effect on combat, because if they use it as an application to obstacles, etc.(as opposed to just an emote) it will count as movement and thereby cancel any casting moves, which will make it to where spamming during battle is a non-issue.... Unless you are constantly in PUG parties, in which case..... sorry :/ but you won't have a problem with serious players. I don't know you've noticed in your server or not, but on mine DRG are already constantly spamming elusive jump just for kicks in town AND its a battle move, so for these players it would make no difference really if there was a timer, if it was a battle move or etc etc if they want to spam it in town.
Just saying :)