The Alliance roulette is unbearable

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Originally Posted by Baxcel

This is a privately owned game.. you signed an agreement to follow the rules, to not cheat and to do as SE says in order for you to be playing the game.

You are cheating, breaking rules or whatever you wanna call it by bypassing the randomness of the roulette. If you can't "conform" to the rules of the game then you shouldn't be playing. Your a cheater and rule breaker and shouldn't be allowed to continue to do so.

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Show me this rule that is being broken, in specifics. Like “section 8, line 3” of the ToS or whatever.

If I were indeed breaking rules/cheating I would stop cheesing, but as is I believe I am using the system as it is allowing me to use it. It is disingenuous to call people doing this “cheaters” or “rule breakers”- even borderline slander, unless you can point to specifics.

You don’t have to like it, and I encourage you to send feedback to change the system, but until then hate the system, not the people using it as it was created.

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Originally Posted by Baxcel

This is a privately owned game.. you signed an agreement to follow the rules, to not cheat and to do as SE says in order for you to be playing the game.

You are cheating, breaking rules or whatever you wanna call it by bypassing the randomness of the roulette. If you can't "conform" to the rules of the game then you shouldn't be playing. Your a cheater and rule breaker and shouldn't be allowed to continue to do so.

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I would also like to see this "rule" you keep claiming people are breaking. Put up or shut it.

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Originally Posted by Baxcel

This is a privately owned game.. you signed an agreement to follow the rules, to not cheat and to do as SE says in order for you to be playing the game.

You are cheating, breaking rules or whatever you wanna call it by bypassing the randomness of the roulette. If you can't "conform" to the rules of the game then you shouldn't be playing. Your a cheater and rule breaker and shouldn't be allowed to continue to do so.

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Show me this rule. Don’t just make stuff up as you go. Proof or it doesn’t exist

Did it ever occur to you that you could join other ARs using something besides the roulette? Right now people are needing Crystal Tower raids to obtain necessary materials for the Bozjan resistance weapons. And just today I got Dun Scaith to my luck. So others ARs are possible to attain.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

Cause your fix of basing it off level causes more issues than people item cheesing to get a dungeon.

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Except it doesn't.

You are level 60, but haven't unlocked the Mhach raids. You'll just get CT until you unlock them. You hit level 70 and have done the Mhach raids and CT raids, but haven't unlocked the Ivalice raids. You'll just get Mhach and CT raids. Somebody is level 70, but doesn't have the Mhach raids but has the Ivalice raids. They'll just get CT and Ivalice raids.

Tell me, where is the problem with this? It only throws you into things you've unlocked at the level you can do them at.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Except it doesn't.

You are level 60, but haven't unlocked the Mhach raids. You'll just get CT until you unlock them. You hit level 70 and have done the Mhach raids and CT raids, but haven't unlocked the Ivalice raids. You'll just get Mhach and CT raids. Somebody is level 70, but doesn't have the Mhach raids but has the Ivalice raids. They'll just get CT and Ivalice raids.

Tell me, where is the problem with this? It only throws you into things you've unlocked at the level you can do them at.

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This isn’t a bad call. The only problem I can see with it is just getting, say, 70 and needing to go from 69 280ish ilvl to the 350ish for the third in the raid series.

Maybe instead just require an ilvl based on level, so a level 70 need just be able to do the first in the series, but like 73 needs the ilvl for the third one. This would somewhat mirror the ilvl dropped in the 71/73 dungeons maybe.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

This isn’t a bad call. The only problem I can see with it is just getting, say, 70 and needing to go from 69 280ish ilvl to the 350ish for the third in the raid series.

Maybe instead just require an ilvl based on level, so a level 70 need just be able to do the first in the series, but like 73 needs the ilvl for the third one. This would somewhat mirror the ilvl dropped in the 71/73 dungeons maybe.

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Not a bad idea. It'd be a progression based thing just in case your ilvl isn't meeting the requirements on classes other than the first one you cleared them on.

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Originally Posted by GDofLevin

Did it ever occur to you that you could join other ARs using something besides the roulette? Right now people are needing Crystal Tower raids to obtain necessary materials for the Bozjan resistance weapons. And just today I got Dun Scaith to my luck. So others ARs are possible to attain.

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But the issue is less "I want to be in a different alliance raid in this roulette" (though variety is nice) and more "If someone queues for an Ivalice raid directly, they can wait more than an hour for it to pop."

As an experiment, back before I got her to 5.3 (and thus had to go back and do the Crystal Tower raids to progress MSQ), I unlocked the Mhach and Ivalice raids on my alt that I was leveling through ShB to have a body to PF raid on separate from my static. When I queued into alliance roulette, even the roulette -- which could put me into six different raids! -- could take up to an hour or more to pop. My record was just short of three hours before I withdrew from queue because I needed to log off and do other things. And that was with six possible raids it could put me in, rather than just someone going "Okay, I'm ready to do Ridorana Lighthouse for the first time!" and queuing in directly.

When five of us queued for Ridorana to take some of the FC through the Ivalice raids for the first time, so they could unlock Bozja, it still took 45 minutes for the queue to pop. And that was when people were actively running the Ivalice raids to get access to Bozja.

Now, I will confess the 3-hour roulette wait was as a tank, which is always gonna be a little slower for alliance raid... but still, three hours? And of course, the moment I unlocked the Crystal Tower raids, her alliance roulette queue would pop near-instantly.

It seems to me that demonstrates that something ain't quite working as intended. Whether that's due to ilevel cheese or just a misjudgment about how many NA/EU players would unlock the other allliance raids is somewhat immaterial to the fact that the roulette is meant to funnel people where needed so that folks don't need to wait forever for the queue to pop when queuing for something directly, and demonstrably that does not work.

I can try to make my own 'alliance roulette' by selecting several raids manually, sure. But I'm limited to picking only five duties when doing that, and also I don't get the rewards for alliance roulette (which are intended to incentivize queuing in so that duties will pop faster for people queued directly for specific alliance raids, which... well, see above.)

Sure, "just queue into the specific alliance raid you want" is a viable solution to "I want to play things other than Crystal Tower". It is not, however, a viable solution to "this roulette needs to funnel people to the folks who queued for specific alliance raids and are stuck waiting an entire geological era for the duty to pop." Conversely, "if you want to just do Crystal Tower and not the other raids, just queue into Crystal Tower directly" does solve both problems ("I don't want to do other alliance raids", and "this roulette is not functioning as intended as it's being manipulated to ensure no other raids get filled consistently.").

But of course, folks aren't going to want to do that, because why would you queue into Crystal Tower directly without the roulette rewards, right?

Of course you are going to wait for any non ARR raid there is a lot of new players to the point where SE stopped selling the game that are probably doing msq and not going out of their way to unlock optional content.
To get into Ivalice raid you need all 24 players to be at least 70 and have the raid unlock. The odds that at least 1 player does not met these requirements is quite high.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

snip

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Kay.. we will start with this line

■Prohibited Behavior in Final Fantasy XIV
In Final Fantasy XIV, obstructive behavior that has an adverse impact on other users' gameplay, or operation of service, is prohibited. Such behavior violates the Final Fantasy XIV User Agreement and Square Enix Account Terms of Use.

Your effecting other players gameplay by breaking a system and forcing a random event into a non-random event.

■Nuisance behavior
"Nuisance behavior" is speech or behavior that hurts others or obstructs their gameplay, but which is not classified as harassment. Even if it was not intended, a penalty may be issued if the end result was that another person was hurt, or their gameplay was obstructed. If the behavior was observed being conducted by multiple players, all involved members will be issued a penalty.

Your effecting people who are directly queueing into duties by draining all the resources in roulette away from their proper uses, which is suppose to be random to fill the people in need.

◆Obstruction of play
"Obstruction of play" refers to all behavior in general that obstructs another person's gameplay. Below is a non-exhaustive list of examples of obstruction of play.

・Obstructing the activities of others
Refers to any kind of obstructive behavior that prevents the activities of another player.

Once again blocking people from joining others in a random roulette by forcing the outcome into another one.

Misuse of bugs
"Misuse of bugs" refers to the deliberate exploitation of a fault/error in Final Fantasy XIV or manipulating a feature of Final Fantasy XIV so that it does not function as intended, in order to obtain personal gain or cause disadvantage to someone else.

Or you know the biggest one you guys love to ignore, your using this bug to choose what duty your getting from a process that's suppose to be random..

It literally says using a function as it wasn't intended for personal gain.. scrolling threw all these posts you guys all claim it's fastest for most rewards.. so your abusing a bug for personal gain of faster rewards.

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Misuse of bugs
... manipulating a feature of Final Fantasy XIV so that it does not function as intended, in order to obtain personal gain

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Yup this is the one. I can't be bothered to report people for most things but I wish they would fix this oversight in a non-restrictive way, such as nerfing the rewards of those who aren't wearing level appropriate gear when queuing. You get free job gear at 80 and 90 that qualifies you for level 70 and 80 raids, and even at level 70 you should at least have adequate gear for level 60 raids. It would have no effect on people who aren't cheating.

I have a sentimental attachment to my Ironworks set. And there is indeed no rule that obliges me to wear something you consider "more appropriate" at level 90.

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Originally Posted by Azuri

I have a sentimental attachment to my Ironworks set. And there is indeed no rule that obliges me to wear something you consider "more appropriate" at level 90.

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Glamour Prisms
ItemLevel restrictions

I would be really impressed if i could somehow see somebody do level 90 stuff in ironworks gear, not gonna lie...

But that sarcasm aside

I hate level 50, I hate level 50, I hate level 50, I hate level 50, I hate level 50

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Originally Posted by Cheremia

Glamour Prisms
ItemLevel restrictions

I would be really impressed if i could somehow see somebody do level 90 stuff in ironworks gear, not gonna lie...

But that sarcasm aside

I hate level 50, I hate level 50, I hate level 50, I hate level 50, I hate level 50

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But those are not genuine. It's like fake wearing a set. And of course I can't do all the content with that lovely set equipped. But I will always put it on wherever the game allows me.

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Originally Posted by Azuri

But those are not genuine. It's like fake wearing a set. And of course I can't do all the content with that lovely set equipped. But I will always put it on wherever the game allows me.

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You
I like and hate you for making me laugh and also giving me a headache at the same time

But take your glam prisms and go home! We have the Ironworks at home

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Originally Posted by Baxcel

Kay.. we will start with this line

■Prohibited Behavior in Final Fantasy XIV
In Final Fantasy XIV, obstructive behavior that has an adverse impact on other users' gameplay, or operation of service, is prohibited. Such behavior violates the Final Fantasy XIV User Agreement and Square Enix Account Terms of Use.

Your effecting other players gameplay by breaking a system and forcing a random event into a non-random event.

■Nuisance behavior
"Nuisance behavior" is speech or behavior that hurts others or obstructs their gameplay, but which is not classified as harassment. Even if it was not intended, a penalty may be issued if the end result was that another person was hurt, or their gameplay was obstructed. If the behavior was observed being conducted by multiple players, all involved members will be issued a penalty.

Your effecting people who are directly queueing into duties by draining all the resources in roulette away from their proper uses, which is suppose to be random to fill the people in need.

◆Obstruction of play
"Obstruction of play" refers to all behavior in general that obstructs another person's gameplay. Below is a non-exhaustive list of examples of obstruction of play.

・Obstructing the activities of others
Refers to any kind of obstructive behavior that prevents the activities of another player.

Once again blocking people from joining others in a random roulette by forcing the outcome into another one.

Misuse of bugs
"Misuse of bugs" refers to the deliberate exploitation of a fault/error in Final Fantasy XIV or manipulating a feature of Final Fantasy XIV so that it does not function as intended, in order to obtain personal gain or cause disadvantage to someone else.

Or you know the biggest one you guys love to ignore, your using this bug to choose what duty your getting from a process that's suppose to be random..

It literally says using a function as it wasn't intended for personal gain.. scrolling threw all these posts you guys all claim it's fastest for most rewards.. so your abusing a bug for personal gain of faster rewards.

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So, if we are following this as written, I can report people who die multiple times in a Duty Roulette for "obstructive behavior" because they are having an adverse impact on my gameplay? Just want to make sure that if we are going to enforce it in AR situations, we fairly apply it in all circumstances.

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Originally Posted by Scaramouche

Of course you are going to wait for any non ARR raid there is a lot of new players to the point where SE stopped selling the game that are probably doing msq and not going out of their way to unlock optional content.
To get into Ivalice raid you need all 24 players to be at least 70 and have the raid unlock. The odds that at least 1 player does not met these requirements is quite high.

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I don't deny that Crystal Tower will always show up a disproportionate amount of times; as I have said before, including in this very thread, it is required for MSQ to get into Heavensward, and the free trial does include HW. The Mhachi raids are the only other thing free trial users have access to, and they aren't required for anything else (like the Ivalice raids are). Moreover, there are plenty of people who did not ever bother to unlock the other raids, so can only be put in those anyway.

But there are people in this thread defending the choice to deliberately, consciously manipulate the system even knowing it might screw others over by making folks who deliberately are queuing into specific later raids have to wait forever.

I don't know whether or not ilevel cheesing actually appreciably skews the queue; none of us have that sort of data. (Truthfully I doubt even the devs have that data, as I would be surprised if the roulette engine is tracking how often someone's ilevel is drastically below what's appropriate for their actual level.)

But at best it doesn't improve things.

And I strongly suspect those engaging in ilevel cheesing don't actually believe the roulette is so skewed that they'd never get other raids, and that ilevel cheesing has zero effect. After all, if they did genuinely believe that, they'd feel no need to cheese the queue to start with.

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Originally Posted by Menriq

So, if we are following this as written, I can report people who die multiple times in a Duty Roulette for "obstructive behavior" because they are having an adverse impact on my gameplay? Just want to make sure that if we are going to enforce it in AR situations, we fairly apply it in all circumstances.

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I know you're being facetious, but I believe they've clarified it before as a matter of intent.

Someone dying repeatedly in a trial because they just don't get the fight would not be deliberate obstruction of your gameplay. Someone dying in a trial repeatedly because they're deliberately screwing up mechanics to wipe the party as they think that is funny? That actually would most likely count, yes.

It is exceedingly unlikely people just consistently somehow accidentally change into Ironworks gear every time they queue into Alliance roulette; even i this thread, folks unashamedly say they're doing so deliberately because Crystal Tower is the least amount of time for the same rewards.

So while I don't know if Square-Enix would treat it as a TOS violation, you can certainly make a solid argument that it is, especially as there's demonstrable intent to manipulate the system.

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

I know you're being facetious, but I believe they've clarified it before as a matter of intent.

Someone dying repeatedly in a trial because they just don't get the fight would not be deliberate obstruction of your gameplay. Someone dying in a trial repeatedly because they're deliberately screwing up mechanics to wipe the party as they think that is funny? That actually would most likely count, yes.

It is exceedingly unlikely people just consistently somehow accidentally change into Ironworks gear every time they queue into Alliance roulette; even i this thread, folks unashamedly say they're doing so deliberately because Crystal Tower is the least amount of time for the same rewards.

So while I don't know if Square-Enix would treat it as a TOS violation, you can certainly make a solid argument that it is, especially as there's demonstrable intent to manipulate the system.

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Which is a fair argument. However, if SE really felt like it was an issue, they would have addressed it by now just like they did with the MSQ not being able to skip cutscenes. Since this has been around for so long, it's not an unreasonable assumption that it's ok to continue to do. They haven't even came out with their soft handed "We know people do this, we please ask that you don't" type of response.

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Originally Posted by Baxcel

Kay.. we will start with this line

■Prohibited Behavior in Final Fantasy XIV
In Final Fantasy XIV, obstructive behavior that has an adverse impact on other users' gameplay, or operation of service, is prohibited. Such behavior violates the Final Fantasy XIV User Agreement and Square Enix Account Terms of Use.

Your effecting other players gameplay by breaking a system and forcing a random event into a non-random event.

■Nuisance behavior
"Nuisance behavior" is speech or behavior that hurts others or obstructs their gameplay, but which is not classified as harassment. Even if it was not intended, a penalty may be issued if the end result was that another person was hurt, or their gameplay was obstructed. If the behavior was observed being conducted by multiple players, all involved members will be issued a penalty.

Your effecting people who are directly queueing into duties by draining all the resources in roulette away from their proper uses, which is suppose to be random to fill the people in need.

◆Obstruction of play
"Obstruction of play" refers to all behavior in general that obstructs another person's gameplay. Below is a non-exhaustive list of examples of obstruction of play.

・Obstructing the activities of others
Refers to any kind of obstructive behavior that prevents the activities of another player.

Once again blocking people from joining others in a random roulette by forcing the outcome into another one.

Misuse of bugs
"Misuse of bugs" refers to the deliberate exploitation of a fault/error in Final Fantasy XIV or manipulating a feature of Final Fantasy XIV so that it does not function as intended, in order to obtain personal gain or cause disadvantage to someone else.

Or you know the biggest one you guys love to ignore, your using this bug to choose what duty your getting from a process that's suppose to be random..

It literally says using a function as it wasn't intended for personal gain.. scrolling threw all these posts you guys all claim it's fastest for most rewards.. so your abusing a bug for personal gain of faster rewards.

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Looks good, but there’s a lot of room for interpretation. I’d love to hear official word on this. Is it obstruction? Is it really causing an “adverse effect”? Is this even a bug?

In my brain, I’m using the system as it was designed- to me it feels “working as intended”.
Again, if I refuse to unlock the other raids on my alts, is that abuse?

I’m inclined to agree with the post above- there has been no word on this whatsoever, not even soft handed.

I’m not arguing against you- I asked and you put up your research. Again, would love to hear from the devs. For real- thank you for your response.

This is mainly the reason I very rarely queue for Alliance Roulette anymore as getting either any of the Crystal Tower raids are just....so....boring; another that comes to mind would be Void Ark in the HW alliance raids, and while I am sure some enjoy Void Ark - it gets old fast; though despite it being able to be completed fast (as someone will say) and is at least level 60, it is so mind-numbing in my opinion right next to the Crystal Tower raids.

The two after Void Ark are some of my personal favorites from HW and would like to see them more often in Alliance Roulette alongside ones from Stormblood and Shadowbringers. Heck, getting Copied Factory and even Puppet's Bunker is awesome from time-to-time.

To wrap things up: it goes without saying that some people prefer the alliance raids that require zero brain power, yet somehow still wipe, but even still, if I see another rogue, pugilist, or another class without their job stone on (or clothes off, then go to full HP upon re-equipping) that caused me to get Crystal Tower - I will look down on you, menacingly.

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Originally Posted by Baxcel

Misuse of bugs
"Misuse of bugs" refers to the deliberate exploitation of a fault/error in Final Fantasy XIV or manipulating a feature of Final Fantasy XIV so that it does not function as intended, in order to obtain personal gain or cause disadvantage to someone else.

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This is the big one. While it's true that the game "allows" you to rig your ilevel to affect the roulette, I think it's pretty logical that it wasn't the intended reason for the design. It's intended to stop you from getting thrown into Orbonne when you just hit 70 and you're still in weak gear. Not because you deliberately manipulated it and the system either doesn't or can't check what your real available ilevel is.

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Originally Posted by Menriq

Which is a fair argument. However, if SE really felt like it was an issue, they would have addressed it by now just like they did with the MSQ not being able to skip cutscenes.

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That depends whether they can change it or whether the system is just too deeply embedded and they don't want to acknowledge that (I speculate) rules they created to sort people into roulettes several expansions ago can't be changed even though they aren't really working correctly now.

MSQ roulette is a different issue entirely, and their solution used things that already exist in the game. Locking down player movement with an unskippable cutscene is a thing that already existed for the treasure dungeons. Auto-scrolling text was already an option. They just put them together and applied them in the dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Menriq

Which is a fair argument. However, if SE really felt like it was an issue, they would have addressed it by now just like they did with the MSQ not being able to skip cutscenes. Since this has been around for so long, it's not an unreasonable assumption that it's ok to continue to do. They haven't even came out with their soft handed "We know people do this, we please ask that you don't" type of response.

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Looking at this from a different angle, I feel as though they haven't made changes because they can't. It appears that Ilevels are checked when the DF window pops and it's locked in at that point because the dungeon you'll enter has already been decided for you. You need to be naked before queuing.

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Originally Posted by Quintessa

Looking at this from a different angle, I feel as though they haven't made changes because they can't. It appears that Ilevels are checked when the DF window pops and it's locked in at that point because the dungeon you'll enter has already been decided for you. You need to be naked before queuing.

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This is incorrect. Everything is snapshotted when you queue up, which is why you can get adventurer in need bonuses if you queue up for them even if they aren't the same role needed when the queue actually pops.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Regardless of Doozer's suggestion to report people for it... no, no you're not missing health because you were on a crafter. Why? Because your health gets automatically set to max when you zone into the dungeon, the only reason for you to suddenly miss health before the barrier even opens is because you switched gear pieces.

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Is this really true?

Recently, I queued up for alliance raid while I was at ilevel 530. I had on a full set of level 80 gear (including accessories). I didn't lower my ilevel at all. I still landed in Crystal Tower though.

But what I noticed is that even though I was at max HP (since I was just waiting for the queue to pop), my HP wasn't max when I finally got into the raid. It only took a few seconds for it to restore.

I noticed the same for a few other players in the party. I also noticed that some party members didn't have this happen to them.

What exactly causes this? Now I'm a little nervous because I don't want to get mistakenly reported.

certain party comps give you a slight health boost

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Originally Posted by Menriq

This is incorrect. Everything is snapshotted when you queue up, which is why you can get adventurer in need bonuses if you queue up for them even if they aren't the same role needed when the queue actually pops.

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Yeah, this has happened to me before several times. I would queue up as a healer while either dps or tank was in need, and I would still receive the rewards at the end.

I just assumed that if the needed role changes any time during the raid, then the rewards would go to those playing that role.

To be honest, even after playing this game for 7 or 8 years, I still don't fully get how ilevel sync and stat sync and all of that works.

The ToS can be very vague and open to interpretation. Not by you, not by me, but by the developers and the GMs.

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Originally Posted by Baxcel

Kay.. we will start with this line

■Prohibited Behavior in Final Fantasy XIV
In Final Fantasy XIV, obstructive behavior that has an adverse impact on other users' gameplay, or operation of service, is prohibited. Such behavior violates the Final Fantasy XIV User Agreement and Square Enix Account Terms of Use.

Your effecting other players gameplay by breaking a system and forcing a random event into a non-random event.

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I've only ever seen this part of the ToS used in instances such as; refusing to participate in a duty, refusing to heal somebody, I can also see it being used when someone wears a glamour piece as a piece of gear in a duty causing it to become impossible to perform adequately or survive a raid-wide.
Not getting the duty you prefer is not obstructing behaviour. Nothing here is stopping you from playing the game or completing an instance.

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Originally Posted by Baxcel

■Nuisance behavior
"Nuisance behavior" is speech or behavior that hurts others or obstructs their gameplay, but which is not classified as harassment. Even if it was not intended, a penalty may be issued if the end result was that another person was hurt, or their gameplay was obstructed. If the behavior was observed being conducted by multiple players, all involved members will be issued a penalty.

Your effecting people who are directly queueing into duties by draining all the resources in roulette away from their proper uses, which is suppose to be random to fill the people in need.

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Nuisance behaviour can be seen as intentionally dropping AoEs or other mechanics on to other people or baiting certain mechanics towards a person, effectively preventing them from casting for example. Even rescuing for the sake of "LOL"s. Leashing a boss out of arena so it resets before the arena is locked.

Again, you not getting the duty you want is not "nuisance behaviour". It is also not affecting the people directly queueing into a higher duty because the game will take other people from the pool that meet the standards and match them with that person. You have no way of proving that one queue is being caused to pop before another.

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Originally Posted by Baxcel

◆Obstruction of play
"Obstruction of play" refers to all behavior in general that obstructs another person's gameplay. Below is a non-exhaustive list of examples of obstruction of play.

・Obstructing the activities of others
Refers to any kind of obstructive behavior that prevents the activities of another player.

Once again blocking people from joining others in a random roulette by forcing the outcome into another one.

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Just see above.

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Originally Posted by Baxcel

Misuse of bugs
"Misuse of bugs" refers to the deliberate exploitation of a fault/error in Final Fantasy XIV or manipulating a feature of Final Fantasy XIV so that it does not function as intended, in order to obtain personal gain or cause disadvantage to someone else.

Or you know the biggest one you guys love to ignore, your using this bug to choose what duty your getting from a process that's suppose to be random..

It literally says using a function as it wasn't intended for personal gain.. scrolling threw all these posts you guys all claim it's fastest for most rewards.. so your abusing a bug for personal gain of faster rewards.

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Who's to say this is a bug and not working as intended? Duties simply require an iLVL. There is no "exploitation of a fault/error". The function is just simply to match people to fill slots in a duty. It does not say in every possible duty. Again, you are interpreting the ToS in a certain way. There is not word on the specifics of it. Just because you don't get what you want doesn't mean the rules are being broken.

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

certain party comps give you a slight health boost

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Thanks for clearing that up! I really need to teach myself more about this. I've been playing the game for so long, and I had no idea this was a thing.

I think the only reasonable solution would be to significantly increase the rewards from the later Alliance raids. I don't really know what else you could do. It COULD have the effect of making people who are lvl 80+ dropping if they don't get Nier, but it would be balanced out by the amount of people that are forced to do lower level raids because they aren't high enough level to do Nier. It wouldn't be as bad as MSQ roulette where people drop when they get Castrum over Praetorium.

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Originally Posted by YukikoKurosawa

I think the only reasonable solution would be to significantly increase the rewards from the later Alliance raids. I don't really know what else you could do. It COULD have the effect of making people who are lvl 80+ dropping if they don't get Nier, but it would be balanced out by the amount of people that are forced to do lower level raids because they aren't high enough level to do Nier. It wouldn't be as bad as MSQ roulette where people drop when they get Castrum over Praetorium.

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They would also need to do something about the ilvl check, as there will still be a large number of people who just do that to get a 15-20min run, regardless of EXP reward.

I'm at the point where I'm just gonna eat the 30 min deserter penalty if I get the crystal tower series again. I'm just done with people force-queing it. Just got into World of Darkness, zero people new to the duty. Just dropped immediately. I genuinely don't understand the mentality of people who just want to take the most boring, repetitive, easiest route because they want to save time. Ok, you naked qued so you could get CT raids only. You did your Crystal Tower faceroll run for the 3000000th time in 10 minutes. Now what will you do for the rest of your day? Log off? What are you in such a rush for? What are you doing that you need to get in and get out so fast? What is your end goal here?

This game isn't a job and I'm sick of people who treat it that way and as a result optimize the fun out of it not just for themselves but for other players. I like to que for my dailies not just for the rewards but for fun, but I like variety. And as a dps, queing for specific instances can take an eternity so I hope when I que for the roulette I have a much better chance of getting into what I want. If you're at the point where you're just logging in to do your daily tasks, and are intentionally making it as unfun as possible just to get it over quicker so you can then presumably log off, please just unsub and go play another game you actually derive enjoyment from. But while this keeps happening I'm going to keep dropping instance, regardless of what role I am, if I get into any of the CT series until people either stop force-queing it or Square actually does something about this.

He says Alliance. Most content is unbearable, you bring in the masses and there's where skill flushes down the toilet.

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Originally Posted by YukikoKurosawa

I'm at the point where I'm just gonna eat the 30 min deserter penalty if I get the crystal tower series again. I'm just done with people force-queing it. Just got into World of Darkness, zero people new to the duty .

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A lot of people have cleared CT yet don’t have access to any other raid, either because they haven’t completed HW or haven’t unlocked OPTIONAL raids too.

They need a roulette for CT and another for optional raids. The latter should bave modulated rewards based on duration. It would also encourage people to unlock the optional raids and increase the player base.

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Originally Posted by Hunky

Thanks for clearing that up! I really need to teach myself more about this. I've been playing the game for so long, and I had no idea this was a thing.

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It's specifically that you get a 1% bonus to your stats for each role (Tank, Healer, Melee, Physical Ranged DPS, Magical Ranged DPS) you have represented without duplicate jobs. (It will also make the Limit Break bar fill faster.) Got two reapers? You don't get the melee portion of the bonus. You can see the current bonus your party has by looking at the bottom of the party list window.

This is why folks doing high-end content will look for a 'proper' party composition (at least one melee, ranged, and caster) and no duplicate jobs; that's how you get the maximum boost.

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Originally Posted by YukikoKurosawa

This game isn't a job and I'm sick of people who treat it that way and as a result optimize the fun out of it not just for themselves but for other players. I like to que for my dailies not just for the rewards but for fun, but I like variety.

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So you admit this is your idea of fun? And damned be those who have fun any other way right? I'm really glad you're not the arbiter of what this game "should" be but hey you keep talking like you are, maybe they're hiring.

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Originally Posted by BigHoffie

So you admit this is your idea of fun? And damned be those who have fun any other way right? I'm really glad you're not the arbiter of what this game "should" be but hey you keep talking like you are, maybe they're hiring.

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Nobody naked queing to get Crystal Tower all day every day is motivated by anything that could be construed as desiring fun. They're doing it because it's the most efficient way of completeing their daily, and for no other reason.

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Originally Posted by YukikoKurosawa

Nobody naked queing to get Crystal Tower all day every day is motivated by anything that could be construed as desiring fun. They're doing it because it's the most efficient way of completeing their daily, and for no other reason.

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I don't know how to say things in text louder and slower but i'll try. YOU... DON'T.. GET.. TO.. DECIDE.. WHAT... OTHERS... THINK... IS... FUN...

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Originally Posted by BigHoffie

I don't know how to say things in text louder and slower but i'll try. YOU... DON'T.. GET.. TO.. DECIDE.. WHAT... OTHERS... THINK... IS... FUN...

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I think her point was more, "Pretty much everyone in this thread who has admitted to ilevel cheesing to ensure they get Labyrinth of the Ancients has said they do it because they just want out as quickly as possible with their roulette rewards."

Thus, by their own admission, no one engaging in this seems to be doing it because they think the Crystal Tower raids are fun, just that they're the fastest things to run in that roulette.

(Edit: Also, unrelated, I must high-five you on the First Law reference for your character name there. You see eight billion Kiritos and Sephiroths and other names around, as well as a solid number of references to the Wheel of Time or even the Stormlight Archive, but I think you're the first I've seen referencing Abercrombie's excellent series.)

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Originally Posted by BigHoffie

I don't know how to say things in text louder and slower but i'll try. YOU... DON'T.. GET.. TO.. DECIDE.. WHAT... OTHERS... THINK... IS... FUN...

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I mean your talking to someone who leaves WoD because there is no one new to the duty and thinks it means people are queueing nake.

Lots of new players who only have unlocked CT? Nope its the bloody ilvl cheeser ruining my day.

CT being mandatory and lowest entry level vs optional raid? Nope still the bloody ilvl cheeser ruining my day.