Lack of End Game Content

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Originally Posted by Kaitoo

fucking with raid sizes and content fucks up always the raid scene, known for 2 decades across all mmoos
Atleast i assume that you meant by "harder 24 mans" content mainly made for premade gorups

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It's like you didn't even read the post I quoted/responded to.

A savage version of 24-mans would obviously have to be less difficult from a mechanical standpoint for each player involved, so that they could be cleared more easily by PuGs or spontaneous FC/Linkshell groups; otherwise the clear-rate would be abysmally low. For example: The first fight could have the difficulty of one of the weaker Extremes (like the current ones) and then slightly increase in difficulty from boss to boss until you reach something like Shinryu Ex for the final fight.
Still, this would undoubtedly be a huge endeavour which is why, like I said, they should focus on more difficult 4-player-content for now.

Somehow a lot of people claim they are not interested in Endgame since they rather smell the roses, do side activities etc. but still don't want the people who get their thrills from doing Endgame content and nothing else to have more of it, for some reason. Adding Mahjong didn't bother me, it's nice for people who enjoy playing Mahjong I guess. On the other hand the people that spend their time playing Mahjong are like "omg please no, you're playing the game wrong!" when someone advocates for more Endgame content. I don't really get it ^^

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Originally Posted by RoyalBeef

Somehow a lot of people claim they are not interested in Endgame since they rather smell the roses, do side activities etc. but still don't want the people who get their thrills from doing Endgame content and nothing else to have more of it, for some reason. Adding Mahjong didn't bother me, it's nice for people who enjoy playing Mahjong I guess. On the other hand the people that spend their time playing Mahjong are like "omg please no" when someone advocates for more Endgame content. I don't really get it ^^

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Because, by accident or intention, Yoshi's words caused people to believe that for more of type x content that's produced, they have to make less of type y content.

Now it's not limited to only this. People also disagree on what types of end-game should be added (Dungeons, raids, hard mode raids/dungeons) and what type of new systems should be introduced(Mythic+ type of system, savage dungeons, more bosses for the 8 mans. Eureka was also divisive as well.)

That and you have people's tone or extreme opinions making their counterparts more extreme.

But that's all I got for ya. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I haven't unsubbed since 1.0 and I still have content I can do.

Savage will come in a couple weeks and there won't be anything at all to complain about (logically) ... but people still will. Those that can't clear Savage will complain about lack of content until we get the Noir raid, and then they'll complain about loot lockouts, just like they're complaining about Eden loot lockouts, etc.

Those of us who have been here the whole time have already "been there, done that" for 6 years now. Record just skipped again.

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Originally Posted by Vercinotrix

Because, by accident or intention, Yoshi's words caused people to believe that for more of type x content that's produced, they have to make less of type y content.

Now it's not limited to only this. People also disagree on what types of end-game should be added (Dungeons, raids, hard mode raids/dungeons) and what type of new systems should be introduced(Mythic+ type of system, savage dungeons, more bosses for the 8 mans. Eureka was also divisive as well.)

That and you have people's tone or extreme opinions making their counterparts more extreme.

But that's all I got for ya. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Yeah, the problem is probably people viewing it as a zero sum game. Actually we're all in the same boat, we want the game to do well as long as possible. So every person quitting is a loss for everyone, doesn't matter if they quit bc of a lack of casual content or bc of a lack of endgame content.

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Originally Posted by RoyalBeef

Yeah, the problem is probably people viewing it as a zero sum game. Actually we're all in the same boat, we want the game to do well as long as possible. So every person quitting is a loss for everyone, doesn't matter if they quit bc of a lack of casual content or bc of a lack of endgame content.

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Pretty much. FFXIV is playing one hell of a juggling game to please all of the communities they have. Even the Male only Hrothgar and Female only Viera were meant to be a way to please two sets of desires was met with backlash, ranging from polite dissatisfaction to temper tantrums. And then the eternal rivalry between the casual and hardcore communities deserves a mention.

I just wish the team was slightly bigger with more of a budget and talent, that way they could expand on all types of content without having to sacrifice one thing or another if that's truly that case.

Well adding more bosses won't hurt
and if you MUST compare this to wow i only have 2 cents

A. avoid gear lottery
B. normal raid is basically ff14's lfr, never make it braindead, always add mechanics that can wipe the group so that even the casuals can learn the importance of mechanic. This will increase the probability of more people to join savage/ extreme/ ultimate

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

I finished the Mainstory before early access was over. And I didn't rush nor am I God's gift to FFXIV. So those who are a bit more efficient than I am or better at the game I'd imagine would be getting a little antsy about more challenging content. Remember, the expert dungeons and exetreme trials are routine for the more organized and higher end players. So they're not challenged in the same way many others are.

To them doing Hades or a 80 dungeon is like you running Sastasha over and over.

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took me almost 2 weeks to beat the main story and I was playing in no life mode and I also had a vacation playing 12 hours everyday, so you clearly did not even bother to read everything or talk to npcs between cutscenes, maybe you watched the main story cutscenes but not much else.

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Originally Posted by RyuSaarva

took me almost 2 weeks to beat the main story and I was playing in no life mode and I also had a vacation playing 12 hours everyday, so you clearly did not even bother to read everything or talk to npcs between cutscenes, maybe you watched the main story cutscenes but not much else.

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2 weeks? That's a bit much for 12 hours a day. I completed the story in about 2 or 3 days playing a similar amount of time, and I read all of the dialogue, and side dialogue, and watched all the cutscenes.

It was 3 days. I remember now.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

2 weeks? That's a bit much for 12 hours a day. I completed the story in about 2 or 3 days playing a similar amount of time, and I read all of the dialogue, and side dialogue, and watched all the cutscenes.

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well there are other things to do than the main story, like crafting/gathering, doing fates to buy the mount speed up for faster gathering, never doing dungeons without a roulette bonus and instead spending your time more wisely by doing other things while waiting for the daily resets.

Limitless gameplay tends to involve huge grinds and crapshoot gearing processes. These processes would need to provide relevant rewards, meaning it will conflict with the existing systems that provide these rewards.

I'd rather have weekly tomestones and calendar-xharted gear progression tham Titanforging, anyday. If FF14's endless side content doesn't do it for you, play another game between patches. There's no reason an MMO has to be endlessly replayable for everyone.

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Originally Posted by RyuSaarva

well there are other things to do than the main story, like crafting/gathering, doing fates to buy the mount speed up for faster gathering, never doing dungeons without a roulette bonus and instead spending your time more wisely by doing other things while waiting for the daily resets.

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If you're doing things other than the main story then you're not doing the main story. When people talk about the length of the main story, crafting, fates, and casual sauntering around generally aren't included

There's so much to do in this game it is nearly endless. I've been playing since ARR in 2013 and still finding things I missed from ARR, HW and SB to go back and do.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

There's so much to do in this game it is nearly endless. I've been playing since ARR in 2013 and still finding things I missed from ARR, HW and SB to go back and do.

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That's fine and more power to you, but some of us don't find enjoyment out of trying to get a 16th job to level cap, or playing around with glamour. Some of us mainly get enjoyment out of having challenging content to do. Which right now, Savage and Ultimate are the only challenging things in the game. Everything else got made easier because of casuals complaining. It is as if they want challenge-seekers gone from this game.

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Originally Posted by Vercinotrix

You know, I had a snarky reply to all of the people wanting nu-WoW systems put into FF, but I'll actually answer the question honestly.

At this point, I honestly have more than enough content to do and I don't even plan on doing savage (would like to, but that's a whole rant instead of a quick response).

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There's many people like this, who just have the thought process of 'well I'm satisfied, so who cares what the raiders want?' Again, I don't have any issue with casual players getting more content. It improves the health of this game. Why, then, do many casual players have this issue with raiders wanting stuff that actually keeps them around? What if I don't want to play only 2 months out of every 6, and then have to unsub because there is no more savage-like content? Well, too bad for me I guess, right? Casual crowd has what they want so who cares about the raiders amirite?

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

That's fine and more power to you, but some of us don't find enjoyment out of trying to get a 16th job to level cap, or playing around with glamour. Some of us mainly get enjoyment out of having challenging content to do. Which right now, Savage and Ultimate are the only challenging things in the game. Everything else got made easier because of casuals complaining. It is as if they want challenge-seekers gone from this game.

There's many people like this, who just have the thought process of 'well I'm satisfied, so who cares what the raiders want?' Again, I don't have any issue with casual players getting more content. It improves the health of this game. Why, then, do many casual players have this issue with raiders wanting stuff that actually keeps them around? What if I don't want to play only 2 months out of every 6, and then have to unsub because there is no more savage-like content? Well, too bad for me I guess, right? Casual crowd has what they want so who cares about the raiders amirite?

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Because these threads are always verbose ways of re-dressing "one aspect being lacking" to "all aspects being lacking". To some players the "endgame" isn't savage or ultimate raiding, yet those that do focus on savage and ultimate can't help but put that level of raiding as the end-all-be-all goal of this game. I won't disparage them further, however, as this re-dressing and phrasing of "there's no endgame" is probably more efficient at stirring things up on the forums than the claim of "we would like more savage-difficulty content".

The very concept of having to stay on the treadmill perpetually is something SQEX has chosen to avoid - explicitly. If the game doesn't suit your needs, then vote with your wallet. You don't owe the game your time or attention. Find enjoyment elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by Klb600

And where exactly do I argue against that? Please get over yourself I am not misinterpreting the definition of either. Also I did not give the definition of anything, nor am I making the claims that you are asserting. The poster I replied to claimed that endgame of wow is set by the developers and FFXIV isn't, which by both titles being theme park MMO's is a completely ludicrous assertion to make, How the hell is FFXIV's endgame more "set by the player" then WoW's when both have the similar endgame structure, being that they are theme park MMO's?

"You are doing the equivalent of telling someone only the roller coasters matter at a theme park, the rest of the park is worthless"



And when exactly did I say anything of the like?

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If you feel I misinterpreted you, fine, but even with this statement you are incorrect.

The developers of WoW are much more controlling and manipulative with its players.

They've made the focus be entirely the gear treadmill, and they set out the path that a person should take to get that gear.

As a result, you have many many many people doing things, that they don't enjoy, just for the eventual carrot down the road.

They've created a system where if you want to be a top raider, you must engage in all sorts of content that you may usually avoid.

Recently, for example, they made something that is valuable for PvE, be something you get from PvP.

Imagine if they made the best chest piece for your job be a reward from Chocobo racing, or your best ring came from being top rep with a beast tribe.

On top of that, they put in so many different timers and time-gate various things, designed to make logging in every day for 1-2 hours and doing very specific things be the most optimal way to play. So, no one is really playing the game, they are just egg timing it (go in, do x, log out), next day (go in, do x, log out), and so on.

Raiders in WoW constantly feel forced to engage in activities they don't want to do.

One of the most hated pieces of content is warfronts, but people will do them just because the gear rewards are so inflated.

People could do Mythic+ up to say level 20, but 99% stop at level 10 because that's where the gear rewards stop.

Ain't too many people doing them just for the challenge or fun.

Professions are virtually worthless because they ensure people are unable to craft anything too good for raiding as then players could avoid some things.

Player agency itself has been completely removed to ensure time and effort won't lead to a player having an advantage over others.

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There is a reason people are leaving in droves and it's often because they are sick of blizzard telling them how they should play the game (common quote)

For all these reasons, the themepark mentality is much stronger in FF14.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

There's many people like this, who just have the thought process of 'well I'm satisfied, so who cares what the raiders want?' Again, I don't have any issue with casual players getting more content. It improves the health of this game. Why, then, do many casual players have this issue with raiders wanting stuff that actually keeps them around? What if I don't want to play only 2 months out of every 6, and then have to unsub because there is no more savage-like content? Well, too bad for me I guess, right? Casual crowd has what they want so who cares about the raiders amirite?

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My post doesn't have that mentality in it. At all. I addressed the question the OP and others proposed, am I personally satisfied with the amount of content in the game. Funny enough you saw that post but didn't see the one the page after where I said I wish the dev team had the resources to expand on all of the content in the game for every community. Because that's ultimately what I do want.

To say my thought process is 'well I'm satisfied, so who cares what the raiders want?' is disingenuous. If you're talking about wanting WoW's mythic+ system or the 20 different difficulty settings for dungeons and the 5 for raids, then sure I definitely have a problem. That doesn't come from a place as a casual upset at hard content, that comes from a place of a longtime raid leader absolutely disgusted at where modern raid and pve culture is from players to the devs.

Welp, it seems someone doxed Scottzone's home address and sent him a death threat also. So for the people who doubted whether Lazy Peon received death threats yes, like most gaming communities, there is a small section of fans who are rabid and outright disgusting in their sick devotion to their favorite video game. This community isn't immune from that.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

Savage and Ultimate are the only challenging things in the game. Everything else got made easier because of casuals complaining. It is as if they want challenge-seekers gone from this game.

There's many people like this, who just have the thought process of 'well I'm satisfied, so who cares what the raiders want?' Again, I don't have any issue with casual players getting more content. It improves the health of this game. Why, then, do many casual players have this issue with raiders wanting stuff that actually keeps them around? What if I don't want to play only 2 months out of every 6, and then have to unsub because there is no more savage-like content? Well, too bad for me I guess, right? Casual crowd has what they want so who cares about the raiders amirite?

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Back in ARR, there were also people saying 'no content!' or 'need more raids!' and the reaction to them, curiously, is the same one people give now:

-Ok, sorry you aren't happy, you can go play something else, I'm happy so I am going to keep playing

I remember strongly one poster who said 'It's ok, let them go, the game will cater to those who enjoy it and remain'

At the time, I thought it meant FF would become a very niche game, small population game, due to this focus on a certain group of players.

The opposite has happened - the game keeps growing and growing, where now people see FF14, ESO, and WoW as the big three MMOs on the market, and shadowbringers maybe just pushed FF to the top. Point being, this game has a steady growing population that enjoys the game, it's format, and how things are done.

Nevertheless expansions launch, and maybe every patch, there is someone who says 'I'm not happy'.

How do expect this ever growing population to respond considering they have been playing and enjoying it, while subs continue to grow?

'ok, guess it's not for you, I'm happy, I,m gonna keep playing, hope you find something you like'

I was scared about this attitude back in ARR, but now, six years later, it's proven to be a winning formula.

When people say to you 'FF is different from MMOs', what they are also saying to you 'and that's why I like it'

Thus, when people say things like 'gee, I wish this MMO was more like X', and they go ' that's not FF, you should find something'

They probably aren't trying to be insulting, they probably think they are being helpful and giving you good advice.

Unlike the WoW forums, where they will try to convince you that you are wrong, and maybe work overtime to convince you why you should stay.

People here are pretty mature, they don't sense the need that they need to convince you if you like something.

It's as if you are complaining at McDonalds, and they recommend you try Burger King, but you say 'No, I want McDonalds to change instead!'

How do you expect the people who enjoy McDonalds to react? They likely dont want it to change and would prefer you just find what you enjoy.

My recommendation to you: Classic WoW

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Originally Posted by Charisma

Wow, talking about not enough endgame content and then coming up with WoW as an example which always goes into a one-year content drought before the next expansion hits.

Of course, you can't run out of things to do in WoW simply because they add a shit ton of time gating stuff, for example farming azerite to max level is completely pointless because everything you boringly grinded for 6 months takes you like a week after catchup mechanics come into place.

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WoW goes a year without adding any major content, but that's not the same as not having things to do.

Also, I quit playing WoW before BfA came out. Suffice it to say I'm not referring to post-MoP WoW, which has been a gradually increasing dumpster fire since WoD dropped outside of a few bright spots in Legion.

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Originally Posted by Kaylessa

Welp, it seems someone doxed Scottzone's home address and sent him a death threat also. So for the people who doubted whether Lazy Peon received death threats yes, like most gaming communities, there is a small section of fans who are rabid and outright disgusting in their sick devotion to their favorite video game. This community isn't immune from that.

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Going off-topic, do realize that celebrities and many people who work in public receive death threats.

Like every person on the view has probably received a death threat by now.

I agree that the FF community isn't immune from such behaviour, but Scott and perhaps others need to learn what it means to make yourself a public figure.

A death threat to someone well known is different when sent to someone private that is unknown by the general public - because it means it likely came from someone who knows them personally.

Asmongold, for example, probably has gotten many death threats, and perhaps even Yoshi-P.

We don't hear about it because they know what being a public figure entails and have effectively learned to ignore such things.

Being a celebrity can be very fun on the way up, as you gain followers and non-stop positive.

But it's the ones that can handle the criticism that learn to survive. It requires a very thick skin.

Perhaps for the first time ever, Scott is experiencing a reaction that is more negative than usual. His video even still has more likes than dislikes.

Scott is the person who had decided to focus on the negativity (loss aversion effect), and there's a good chance he will fail in this buisness unless he learns how to move forward.

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Originally Posted by Kaylessa

Welp, it seems someone doxed Scottzone's home address and sent him a death threat also. So for the people who doubted whether Lazy Peon received death threats yes, like most gaming communities, there is a small section of fans who are rabid and outright disgusting in their sick devotion to their favorite video game. This community isn't immune from that.

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Who would have thought that this community can't take any criticism toward their beloved game. And I thought FF14 community is the best in regards to being friendly towards new people. A damn shame really.

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Originally Posted by Forever_Learning

Going off-topic, do realize that celebrities and many people who work in public receive death threats.

Like every person on the view has probably received a death threat by now.

I agree that the FF community isn't immune from such behaviour, but Scott and perhaps others need to learn what it means to make yourself a public figure.

A death threat to someone well known is different when sent to someone private that is unknown by the general public - because it means it likely came from someone who knows them personally.

Asmongold, for example, probably has gotten many death threats, and perhaps even Yoshi-P.

We don't hear about it because they know what being a public figure entails and have effectively learned to ignore such things.

Being a celebrity can be very fun on the way up, as you gain followers and non-stop positive.

But it's the ones that can handle the criticism that learn to survive. It requires a very thick skin.

Perhaps for the first time ever, Scott is experiencing a reaction that is more negative than usual. His video even still has more likes than dislikes.

Scott is the person who had decided to focus on the negativity (loss aversion effect), and there's a good chance he will fail in this buisness unless he learns how to move forward.

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Its different when you get targeted at your home address and you live with others since you need to worry about their safety too.

Other streamers probably don't have their personal details outlined directly in these threats and if they do I have no idea how they can just continue doing what they do without caring.

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Originally Posted by Jojokomoko

Who would have thought that this community can't take any criticism toward their beloved game. And I thought FF14 community is the best in regards to being friendly towards new people. A damn shame really.

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Indeed... A whole lot of people making generalizations here...
"All hardcore raiders are toxic", "casuals should just stfu" and "a handful people doxxing a YouTuber means "Great community btw""

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Originally Posted by Jojokomoko

Who would have thought that this community can't take any criticism toward their beloved game. And I thought FF14 community is the best in regards to being friendly towards new people. A damn shame really.

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Excuse me? Where did it say in the contract that I must agree 100% with everything scottzone says?

Where did it say I am no longer allowed to disagree?

The FF14 community isn't a bunch of sheep that blindfully agrees with whatever is stated to them.

People have free will, they have a brain, and when they disagree with something, they have every right to state their disagreement.

If you criticize something, and are then upset when people disagree, it means you can give it, but you can't take it!

FF14 probably has more content than most MMO. The problem is that this content is spread "horizontally" across many different activities, rather than focuses "vertically" on just a few like WoW does.

WoW is/was a great game, but there was never much to do in it beside World Quest/Dailies, dungeons, raiding and PvP.

It is awesome if that is what you enjoy obviously. It sucks if you don't though.

FF14 is different, it's awesome if you enjoy doing all the different activities it offers. In many ways if you like to do a little bit of everything, FF14 has too much content.

On the other hand, if you just focused on a few activities, or "progression", you're not going to be satisfied as it doesn't have a lot of content.

As someone who enjoys crafting and gathering, I'm highly disappointed that they removed the Job quests and replaced them with the Crystarium Deliveries that consolidate the Job quest in group of 3 or so.

Maybe if the quality were superior to having individual Job quests, I could accept it, but they are not. They are on par, or inferior.

I wish SE had more resources to give everyone more of what they like, but that's not the case. Everyone is getting the short stick here.


The reason a lot of people gets defensive when someone ask for more content in a specific area, is that they are aware that SE isn't going to put more resources into the game and that more content in specific area is going to come at the cost of content somewhere else.

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Originally Posted by Losara

Its different when you get targeted at your home address and you live with others since you need to worry about their safety too.

Other streamers probably don't have their personal details outlined directly in these threats and if they do I have no idea how they can just continue doing what they do without caring.

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Yeah, they do. There are even books printed with where celebrities live and everything.

In Miami, there is even a tour that tells you how to go to all the different houses (gated, secluded, but you know the address)

A very determined person, with a few details, could also work it out.

I honestly doubt Scottzone has his home address just posted for everyone; more likely a very determined person worked it out.

How do they continue doing what they do without caring? Because they know it's part of the buisness I assume.

If he were to tell another popular content creator, like thequatering, that he received a death threat, the response would be 'welcome to the club'

In the recent taliesin vs. asmongold debacle, Heelvsbabyface talked about how he gets negative things all the time.

I was honestly unaware, because he basically never discusses it and admitted he just ignores it, meanwhile his subs go up up up.

Heck, asmongold has whole threads just discussing how horrible he is, as well as videos.

Asmongold often ignores it, but is also very smart - he shows it on this stream, they laugh about the people, and he gains 200 more subs.

Ever see those videos with celibrities where they read the mean comments about themselves and laugh - these people get it.

It's not for everyone.

Many people choose to actually avoid such work because they know those are the possible consequences and learned to deal with them.

It's called being the price of a celebrity, the price of fame, as they say. I dislike that people do it, but it's common knowledge that it's commonly done.

How many death threats do you think Trump or Sanders every day? You don't seem them quitting.

Scottzone is entering a level of popularity he's never encountered before (who knew about him a year ago?) and will need to learn to sink or swim.

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Originally Posted by Forever_Learning

Excuse me? Where did it say in the contract that I must agree 100% with everything scottzone says?

Where did it say I am no longer allowed to disagree?

The FF14 community isn't a bunch of sheep that blindfully agrees with whatever is stated to them.

People have free will, they have a brain, and when they disagree with something, they have every right to state their disagreement.

If you criticize something, and are then upset when people disagree, it means you can give it, but you can't take it!

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Scottzone didn't get upset when people disagreed, he's fine with discussion.

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Originally Posted by Kaylessa

Scottzone didn't get upset when people disagreed, he's fine with discussion.

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He posted an entire video where the entire focus was on the criticism he received during his stream.

Meaning, he had a conversation on stream where he disagreed with people.

Instead of just moving on, he posted a 12 minute video re-hashing the whole argument, along with a complain that people can't take MMO criticism.

Then, he also posts on Twitter about it:
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Despite gushing about Final Fantasy for months, saying I think it does an incredible job at providing large amounts of content for a variety of players. A small criticism on a personal feeling towards packaged raid content and people think I'm asking for WoW 2.0?
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It's now been almost three days, and he hasn't posted a single video, or made a single tweet, and he's streamed less.

To me, these are all signs of someone that got triggered and is having difficulty moving on.

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Originally Posted by Forever_Learning

Excuse me? Where did it say in the contract that I must agree 100% with everything scottzone says?

Where did it say I am no longer allowed to disagree?

The FF14 community isn't a bunch of sheep that blindfully agrees with whatever is stated to them.

People have free will, they have a brain, and when they disagree with something, they have every right to state their disagreement.

If you criticize something, and are then upset when people disagree, it means you can give it, but you can't take it!

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I'm sorry if I came off kind of heated, but I just saw him breakdown over at his steam due to a death threat. Disagreement is fine, but when it comes down to sending death threat and calling names (Just look at his Youtube comment on the video), this is where the line should be drawn. "Go play another game" "Go back to WoW" "It's your fault, not the game" "You have no life if you're running out of things to do" Just looking at this thread for crying out loud. People can't even give a legitimate criticism here.

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Originally Posted by Forever_Learning

He posted an entire video where the entire focus was on the criticism he received during his stream.

Meaning, he had a conversation on stream where he disagreed with people.

Instead of just moving on, he posted a 12 minute video re-hashing the whole argument, along with a complain that people can't take MMO criticism.

Then, he also posts on Twitter about it:
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Despite gushing about Final Fantasy for months, saying I think it does an incredible job at providing large amounts of content for a variety of players. A small criticism on a personal feeling towards packaged raid content and people think I'm asking for WoW 2.0?
***
It's now been almost three days, and he hasn't posted a single video, or made a single tweet, and he's streamed less.

To me, these are all signs of someone that got triggered and is having difficulty moving on.

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He had to clarify his points a few times because people kept misunderstanding what he was saying. The twitter post was also him clarifying that he wasn't calling for WoW 2.0. He hasn't streamed a video for 3 days because 2 days ago he received a death threat.

He was triggered, just not by criticism.

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Originally Posted by Kaylessa

He had to clarify his points a few times because people kept misunderstanding what he was saying. The twitter post was also him clarifying that he wasn't calling for WoW 2.0. He hasn't streamed a video for 3 days because 2 days ago he received a death threat.

He was triggered, just not by criticism.

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The fanbase becomes rabid when you critique anything they like, or try to offer suggestions.

Many XIV players themselves have had criticisms of the game over the years. The devs either agree and fix the problems (look at machinist!) or disagree and try other things that we will continue to disagree with (let's add female Viera but also male Hrothgar to balance it - oops now everyone is twice as mad.)

It comes to whether it's a criticism of the game as a stand alone entity, vs a comparison to how other games do things and why it should be done like that. "Endgame" content always feels a little empty at the launch of an expansion, because SE wants to give everyone time to enjoy the story without feeling the need to rush, and to allow the support groups for the world first racers time to actually make the top end gear that they'll need. (There was an Aetherflow Media article for how the crafting teams that support world first raid groups work just as hard as the raiders in the lead up, farming up the gear and overmelding it and prepare food and consumables and stuff. It's crafting in Savage mode: https://www.aetherflowmedia.com/pit-...one-month-out/ )

To someone solely focused on the battle portion of endgame, the crafting pit crew can seem like so much background noise. I have no idea if any other game puts that much pressure on the support FCs for raiders. But it's an essential component to XIV's savage raid teams, and cannot be ignored.

To be honest those wanting "endgame content" should realistically just focus on levelling jobs outside of playing Eden and EX Trolltania and Big Chungus. That or focus on making money like farming Stormblood content or finishing other stuff as usually the initial content drop is all about equipping and levelling. Real content begins to drop with 5.1 of course but thats 2 months away at least.

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Originally Posted by Eli85

As for mounts, bragging rights, that's for children, honestly. Never used a mount outside of the company chocobo, and people who go around bragging about a kill in a video game, eh, they probably have some mental issues they need to address, or at the very least they have some self-esteem issues.

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This isn’t condescending, at all.

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Originally Posted by aeoncs

Ok, humour me. In which way would that "fuck up the raiding scene"?





The hardcore crowd isn't the main target population of any MMORPG and that's besides the point. They specifically designed Ultimate for those players and made Savage slightly more tame to make it more accessible.
So they are clearly still thinking of new ways to please players craving more varied & challenging endgame content; which is something Yoshi has repeatedly made clear.

Also, good on you for actually proving Selova's point - the passive-aggressive responses of some of the "casual crowd" are frankly quite ludicrous.

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So why respond in a passive-aggressive way yourself? If you have an issue with how people you disagree with talk, why do the same yourself? And why pretend it's a 'casual crowd' ludicrous thing, raiders do it too.

I mean, the thread is full of hardcores acting like 15-20 hours a week is 'ultra casual', like if you haven't gotten through the MSQ yet there's something wrong with you. 2+ hours a day on a hobby, if you consider most people have about 6 hours of recreation time a day, tops, is quite hardcore, and would be considered so for almost any other hobby.

It doesn't seem unreasonable that players that play about 15 hours a week, and aren't maximizing their time by skipping most of the content- are going to have content to do well after those that play 40+. Even if they were to make 200 hours of casual content per patch, and 200 hours of hardcore raid content- it'd still take most of the patch for casuals to get through it, while hardcores would be bored in a month... except they'd be putting a massive amount of time into developing content for 10% or less of the playerbase.

Now, nobody likes being told they're going to get less content, I sympathize with that- but it's pretty tiring to continually have all the non-raid content be treated as if it doesn't matter by the elite few, so of course when raiders do that, as they are in this thread, it'll get pushback from those who are annoyed at being treated like they're lesser for not being elite. It does matter, it is endgame, and frankly this game has a pre-end-game that matters, unlike every other MMO where the pre-endgame is purely a barrier, and not intended to be enjoyable, and with no effort put into it.

I feel like the people who complain that there is no end game are the people that fly through the content too quickly. I know people who finished the ShB storyline in like 2-3 days, not doing any sidequests and farming dungeons for gear. While it took me a little over 2 weeks due to life stuff and just taking my time seeing the new locales, doing side quests, FATES, etc. My best friend, who I got into FFXIV when SB was released, literally started ARR, skipped every cutscene and caught up to me in SB in a few days. He even got to lv70 before I did then complained that there was nothing to do so he quit the game after about 1-2 weeks.

I have been playing for the last 3-4 years. I've complained about the lack of end-game but that's because I have done a large majoriy of content throughout the years with the exception of Savage/Ex raid (which I skip because I don't want to deal with the stress and it's just not fun for me personally) Crafting which I've dabbled in a bit but ultimately get bored of, some of the beast tribe quests, and a lot more that I never got around to do. But even still, there is a ton of things to do in this game. The issue is that a lot of this content is old and really irrelevant if you're max level and most of it involves farming which can get mind-numbingly boring.

Eureka/Diadem was a grind for gear that basically was useless due to Augmented Tome Gear just being better.
PotD/HoH is good for leveling but is also a grind for the weapons.
Crafting/gathering another grind but will help in the long run with gil and pentamelding or repairs.
Beast Tribes unlock exclusive items
The new FATEs provide bi-color gems that unlock more items the more FATEs you do
Dungeon farming for glam (which is the real endgame)
Savage/EX/Ultimate for all the hardcore guys
All the sidequests for the lore-lovers and world building
Squadrons unlock exclusive items
Delivery quests
PVP would be great if the queues didn't suck.
All the Gold Saucer Stuff (LoV, Chocobo Breeding/Racing, Triple Triad)
Collecting all of the Aether Currents
Finding, buying and decorating a house.
Treasure Maps and Dungeons
Level other jobs/classes
Relic/Anima Weapons

I'm sure there's more. But before anyone says that there isn't much to do engame, make sure you really ask yourself if you've really done EVERYTHING this game has to offer. Sure, there are things that I'm not interested in but that's not to say that it just isn't anything to do once I've reached maxed level.

I hear this all the time, but I don't understand. I've been basically no-lifeing this game for 2 years, and I still have so much to finish... Like all my crafters, its going to take me months to level those, my current goal

Man this thread sure is full of opinions being presented as facts.

This games end game is just 4 bosses. Why can’t we have just a tiny bit of Horizontal progression. Why can’t we make difficult Deep Dungeon for example drop relevant end game gear. Why does it only have to come from savage. Can’t we get difficult things elsewhere. Or maybe make a extremely tough Gold Saucer Game, that drop relevant Gloves or something. You can save on resources and make easier versions of the same thing for people not interested in End Game.