Blue mage is a waste of potential, change my mind.

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Originally Posted by TeraTyrantShadic

Blue Mage Log is an All Blue Mage Party and again I am going to have to point this out. Not everyone will put in the effort to obtain the spells necessary for each role unless they are well informed about it and most of the time they would skip to level 60 with power leveling. So either adding it as a Blue Mage or Limited Job only queue would be a disaster if anything.

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But what is the difference? Using the BLU party finder tool nets the same random people that a Blue roulette would... It's just that adding this roulette it would create somewhat of an influx of blue mages running their dungeons, thus it wouldn't be as barren as it is today. Plus the manual party finder would still be there.

Just to clarify: when I mean roulette and queue-able dungeons, I mean for parties only of Blue Mages

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Originally Posted by TeraTyrantShadic

Blue Mage Log is an All Blue Mage Party and again I am going to have to point this out. Not everyone will put in the effort to obtain the spells necessary for each role unless they are well informed about it and most of the time they would skip to level 60 with power leveling. So either adding it as a Blue Mage or Limited Job only queue would be a disaster if anything.

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some dungeon aren't as appealing as the others,(for example coincounter from aurumv ale) and if most blue mages found their skills they don't want to redo that dungeon. by giving some incentives, hopefully it'll revitalize the scarcity of people doing the blue mages. it's not much but it's a start, better than not starting at all.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

But what is the difference? Using the BLU party finder tool nets the same random people that a Blue roulette would... It's just that adding this roulette it would create somewhat of an influx of blue mages running their dungeons, thus it wouldn't be as barren as it is today. Plus the manual party finder would still be there.

Just to clarify: when I mean roulette and queue-able dungeons, I mean for parties only of Blue Mages

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There is no difference, other than the fact that if Blue Mage participates normally in Duty Roulette then it'll be 5 mins or less queue time and they are most likely be slotted in a DPS making a far easier time and a guaranteed clear preventing unnecessary wipes and confusion. Plus we have to take into account that there are people who will sign up to do Blue Mage and won't put in the effort meaning they can lack certain spells for certain roles crucial for survival since everyone will be synced so we really can't ignore that. Adding a Blue Mage Roulette will be useless, I mean we had an idea of putting spells amount restriction or specific spell restrictions but then you may as well do it in a normal Duty Finder to save time and money. Plus people want to find the specific spells and not play random dungeons or do a roulette to pray for a dungeon they get to learn the spells they want, so the most effective way for them to learn is through picking specific dungeons that holds the spell and queue with 3 others. The most ideal setup would have been all 4 Blue Mage for the Blue Mage Log, but with 5.4 hopefully people will be more active doing that but after 1/2 weeks then what? Roulette isn't going to do much to keep it alive if anything.

People who do roulette now are doing it for Phantasmagoria and Allegory and the Cracked Clusters/Planiclusters, I doubt a Blue Mage only Roulette will be having these currencies and will only be Poetics (Which is very easily obtainable and abundant, I can just farm it in Eureka and in 30 mins I may have 2k) as the cap for it is Level 70 while Alliance seals I highly doubt it since it really is only obtained through first time completion and weekly objectives of Masked Carnival and Blue Mage Log also Hunts provide them but at this point they are useless and only meant for minion and Blue Mage exclusive gear. Plus the Cracked Cluster/Planiclusters are one the things that make people want the Materia and if we do an All Blue Mage roulette you can't really obtain it because it is only an Adventurer in Need (Role) reward. So really running Blue Mage Roulette just for poetics isn't that big of an incentive, and again it'll be far more efficient just to grab a few friends and queue together for a specific dungeon to learn a specific spell. Plus you can still get it even if everyone is not a Blue Mage, so already a Blue Mage roulette is a far fetched idea and it will never work. A level 80 synced down to a Level 70, the dungeon will already be easier than a 4 Blue Mage party if not near similar in terms of clear time.

You can make a premade party and still queue for a specific dungeon with Party Finder. However it more to do with convenience over organisation. Where most MMO nowadays prefer to have these Duty Finders where players are automatically matched to the roles they have chosen to streamline the process and make things easier and convenient for people who may have an unpredictable schedule and want to queue for things with ease rather than waiting over 30+ mins. An example would be the Bitter Memory farm. There are two ways, queuing Level 60 Dungeons and farming it or going to Bozja and farming mobs. Normally people would think the Bozja Method would be easier, however it requires a group of people which is sometimes inconvenient especially when someone has to leave and you may have to replace that person, not just that but the drop rate is by chance. Whereas Level 60 Dungeon farming may seem slower but it is far reliable and you can queue for it any time removing the organizing factor making things a lot more convenient plus the drop rate is 100%. Even if both drop rates are 100% most people tend to pick the one with the most easy solo method which would be running the same Lv 60 dungeon. If Blue Mage were to queue in normal roulettes or duty finder they would have a much easier time learning their spells and abilities.

Even with PF you can still learn the spells regardless of the other 3 classes. As long you have a full party of 4 or 8 of any kind of class composition as long one of them is a Blue Mage, you can still learn Blue Magic form the mobs in the instances 100% of the time as long you are a Blue Mage which just makes a reason for an exclusive roulette for Blue Mages obsolete. When you can just do the same with a normal party composition with 1 of the DPS being a Blue Mage. Same applies to party finder, people can come and help out as a Paladin or whatever class they choose to and still a 100% learn rate. Honestly it would have been far better, rather than just doing an exclusive Blue Mage Roulette or an all Blue Mage party just for a spell. Blue Mage log isn't mandatory either its just there giving one time rewards and that is just about it.

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Originally Posted by Volsungr

some dungeon aren't as appealing as the others,(for example coincounter from aurumv ale) and if most blue mages found their skills they don't want to redo that dungeon. by giving some incentives, hopefully it'll revitalize the scarcity of people doing the blue mages. it's not much but it's a start, better than not starting at all.

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I see where you are getting at, but with the cap being at level 70 I highly doubt the incentives to rerun unappealing dungeons isn't all that glamorous since it is alliance seals, poetics and gil. Literally there are far more effective ways to farm poetics and gil, plus the stuff form Masked Carnival and Blue Mage Log is just weekly, while the roulettes we already have is daily is 580 poetics and to be honest that is plenty enough. Just running for poetics and gil isn't enough to justify the amount of time invested into helping other. If they really want to incentivize it, then the better option would be to make it a Normal Job, allow it to do the things a normal job can do eliminating the problem and let it stay as a DPS and unlock the role changing ability at Level 60.

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Originally Posted by TeraTyrantShadic

I see where you are getting at, but with the cap being at level 70 I highly doubt the incentives to rerun unappealing dungeons isn't all that glamorous since it is alliance seals, poetics and gil. Literally there are far more effective ways to farm poetics and gil, plus the stuff form Masked Carnival and Blue Mage Log is just weekly, while the roulettes we already have is daily is 580 poetics and to be honest that is plenty enough. Just running for poetics and gil isn't enough to justify the amount of time invested into helping other. If they really want to incentivize it, then the better option would be to make it a Normal Job, allow it to do the things a normal job can do eliminating the problem and let it stay as a DPS and unlock the role changing ability at Level 60.

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rewards can always be created. You can, let's say instead getting tomestone, you get the token that can be exchanged to blue skills, or bluemage AF. Yes it won't be longlasting as when instead blue mage can be queued into normal duty roulette but i think it's a good start, but sooner or later need to be removed / rewards moved somewhere else. much like treasure moogle trove thing.

Blue Mage is fine the way it is

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Originally Posted by SamsonBlacke

Blue Mage is fine the way it is

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Blue Mage is not fine as a Limited Job.

My latest complaint about it is how it can't be used in New Game +. I wanted to try helping my friend do the MSQ while still feeling fresh since I've done it about 6 times to Stormblood with different characters. It would've been fine if it was just the quest accept/complete that you couldn't do, but it even prevents you from accomplishing item from X mob and activate X object stuff. At least let us do something with it!

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Originally Posted by TeraTyrantShadic

Blue Mage is not fine as a Limited Job.

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I would be worser as an unlimited one, as it would be BLU in name only.

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Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

I would be worser as an unlimited one, as it would be BLU in name only.

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Not necessarily, while I can't provide answers without definitive evidence. I highly doubt they would toss away such a good foundation they have right now to make it into a normal job. All they need now is to make a Job Gauge with it. Whats wrong with adding a Job Gauge to it? It is still Blue Mage, have a look at Final Fantasy 8 Quistis Trepe as she has Blue Magic as her Limit Break, yet she is still counted as a Blue Mage. You want one acting like a Blue Mage but not called that? FF6 with Gau, Feral Youth and Strago, Loremaster. Look at FF7, while there is Blue Magic, but it is in a materia instead. FF 9 Quina Quen, she does Blue Magic and is still a Blue Mage. FF10 with Khimari and his Ronso Rage. Each of them have different ways of learning Blue Magic, but they are still counted as Blue Mage. FFXI that is the first ever implemented version of a Blue Mage in an MMO setting and it worked, I mean the strongest Blue Magic is Locked behind 2 abilities (both have the same function but one last for one cast and the other for 30 seconds) which are Unbridled Learning and Unbridled Wisdom.

FFXIV can do the same, it won't be just by name. It won't be an exact one to one, considering during its initial release people were farming primals over and over again just to get an OGCD over 30+ times and wouldn't even get a drop and just gave up. So they had to make it so that you are guaranteed to learn the spell when you are in a synced group. In every game Blue Mage is done differently, but there is one key thing that makes a Blue Mage, and that is the ability to learn from monsters and using those abilities. They can still have that ability in a normal setting, because with what they have is a basic foundation to a perfectly normal job. They just need to add a Job Gauge and it can be played in a normal setting after they slowly tweaked or rework it

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Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

I would be worser as an unlimited one, as it would be BLU in name only.

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personally, i prefer losing some of the job fantasy and getting a fully properly working normal job instead of just getting a limited one that can't be used for normal contents/df, since we're talking about opinion, my stance is that i want to raid as a Blue Mage cause that's my main content, and i love Blue Mage as a job in the franchise so i was very excited when they bring it to ffxiv, but not like this lol

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Originally Posted by JiSH

personally, i prefer losing some of the job fantasy and getting a fully properly working normal job instead of just getting a limited one that can't be used for normal contents/df, since we're talking about opinion, my stance is that i want to raid as a Blue Mage cause that's my main content, and i love Blue Mage as a job in the franchise so i was very excited when they bring it to ffxiv, but not like this lol

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And yet this community consistantly proves you wrong in that assessment.

"Muh SMN Egis"
"Muh RDM being a dps instead of being distilled mediocrity with refresh"
"Muh DRK dps with a scyyyyyyythe! (Linkin Park blaring in the background)"
"Muh BRD/Ranger/WAR/SCH we're not a guranteed slot anymore so muh class fantaseeee"

I could go on but you get the idea. The bottom line is, they wanted to preserve BLUs identity and gameplay loop and they believe it couldn't be done within the framework of this games class balance. And, to be quite frank, none of the suggestions or class reconstruction threads I have seen have proven to me otherwise. Those other classes could be modified to fit the class paradigm, BLU couldn't without ripping the guts out of what made the class unique.

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Originally Posted by Razard

"Muh SMN Egis"
"Muh RDM being a dps instead of being distilled mediocrity with refresh"
"Muh DRK dps with a scyyyyyyythe! (Linkin Park blaring in the background)"
"Muh BRD/Ranger/WAR/SCH we're not a guranteed slot anymore so muh class fantaseeee"

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None of those are part of the classic FF job fantasy.
The closest is SMNs egis, since we know egis are just the replacement to summons. There was nothing wrong with making more egis. It didnt hurt SMNs playstyle in any way, and yet SE didnt do it.

As for RDMs "Jack of all trade" style, that was possible, as we currently have something in the game doing just that, which is ACN. If RDM had took the system of a caster/healer in one job, who swaps based on job crystal, the way that SMN/SCH do, it would have been just fine. But instead they went the route they did. In the end, the current RDM is "good enough". Its also extremely popular, unlike BLU. (Just the number of people currently playing RDM shows this)

DRK wasnt solely a scythe user, nor was it solely a DPS. The ONLY thing that they messed up on, was that they gave the HP sacrifice ability to GNB. (Superbolied)
(The blood gauge would have been a good replacement to taking HP for dmg, had they handled it slightly differently, but meh, its the closest they got atm)

I know you're being sarcastic, but the last part is way past sarcastic, its too nonsensical to even be brought up.

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Originally Posted by MaraD_

As for RDMs "Jack of all trade" style, that was possible, as we currently have something in the game doing just that, which is ACN. If RDM had took the system of a caster/healer in one job, who swaps based on job crystal, the way that SMN/SCH do, it would have been just fine. But instead they went the route they did. In the end, the current RDM is "good enough". Its also extremely popular, unlike BLU. (Just the number of people currently playing RDM shows this)

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You're inadvertently proving his point. What happened to SMN/SCH was a mistake they've openly admitted for years now. RDM was never going to get that treatment because it was a pain to balance both jobs and created more work than necessary. To get the fantasy of a "Jack of All Trades", you were only going to get, what you call, "good enough." Or something else (BLU).

And its a false comparison to compare RDM to BLU. RDM is a standard job, whereas BLU is labeled as side content. Why not compare the popularity between PLD and FSH next?

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Originally Posted by MaraD_

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And yet, I have seen examples of every one of the examples i have given on this very forum. Gives me the feeling you couldn't see the sarcasm from the message.

The point is, even with the compromises being made for the sake of balance within the gameplay systems of ffxiv, you will always have people complaining that a class isn't part of some preconcieved notion on what they think or feel that class should be. Whether that be the single player games or the previous MMO. Heck I have seen people claim that Thief (Rogue) going into Ninja is a betrayal despite it being a precedent since the first game and even some Ninjas in the series having access to steal and other Thief functions.

Honestly I think, with BLUs unique game mechanics, the fallout would have been much worse if it was just another class that only gained skills from job quests. And spell learning had too many pitfalls in organised group play that the team have specifically tried to avoid with this game. In that every class, outside of Ilvl and skill, can be brought to any content at max level because it's a level playing field within the classes themselves. A SMN is a SMN, A PLD is a PLD etc. The Spell learning is too much of a chaotic element, It would be the old Cross Class skills problem x100, and regimenting them removes the Blue Mage element which makes the job so appealing.

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Originally Posted by Auryan

You're inadvertently proving his point.

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I never said I was against his point.
His examples just suck lol. (I actually agree with his 1st statement. Not so much the 2nd statement)

Though I do disagree to the idea "its not possible to make something work, with "enough" flavor, even if its not 100% the same amount of flavor."
But we all know people would complain still, even if its 99% the same.

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Originally Posted by Razard

And yet, I have seen examples of every one of the examples i have given on this very forum. Gives me the feeling you couldn't see the sarcasm from the message.

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Ive seen them, and I still think some of them are without merit. (Depends on the issue) I also said I know it was sarcasm xD

As for how negative peoples feedback would have been, thats only an assumption any of us could make, and honestly, its hard to tell what is a vocal minority, or what is genuinely a large majority.
I'm still of the opinion jobs could be "closer" to a vague "job identity". I also think some jobs feel as if SE was trying to fit another class identity in them (from Lineage2, or WoW) and just changed the name to an FF job name. I also feel most of 2.0 jobs were a rush job to slap as much as they could onto the jobs, even if other jobs shared in the same gimmick/mechanic. (While also referencing some of the odd choices in 1.23, which I felt were weird as heck back then too, because I can only assume this was yoshidas L2 days coming out , and influencing his decisions.)
Again, I know people will always complain, even if you had a 100% clone of the job, because someone else imagined it to be different than what it actually is. (Or that it had potential to be something else)

Im fairly certain I could make a job based on BLU, that would carry a large percentage of BLU traits from different Final Fantasies (not solely FFXI) and fit within the 3.0-4.0 style of FF14. (I couldnt do it based on 5.0, and id have to make something slightly different for 1.0-2.0 designs) Based on how 5.0 turned out, I believe this is the main reason BLU turned out as a limited job. (You'd have to look at older posts of mine regarding BLU, to get the long story on that) I'm also certain most people would complain its not close enough to FFXIs BLU. (and in some cases, not like a BLU in another FF, as Ive seen happen before with some people)

Ironically, most of the "complaints" people have for 'why BLU cant be a real job', are issues that already exist elsewhere, and instead of complaining about those same issues elsewhere, because they actually like those "problems". (Example Lost Death in the southern front, suddenly its ok for actions to only be usable in rare occasions, where as before it was unreasonable for BLU to have death that couldnt work on bosses, but its ok if it fails on most bosses as a limited job... because otherwise, thats somehow not "true blue mage"...)

Problem I have with your logic Razard is that you say they did something due to organized group play issues and then force it into organized group play, say for classic spells and they've modified several spells due to balance. Nearly every reason for blue mage being the way that it is .. is then still a problem after implementation.


Furthermore blue mage has only had a huge huge list of skills in one game, FFXI. They could absolutely have presented skill learning of blue with a narrower list and that be true blue in sense of learning skills (it's not hard to see how giving blue a specific kit for DF would be easily balanced, and if you keep the limited side then you can have blue go learn it all on their own via the game content + carnival). Blue mage has only once been about picking spells into a bar. Often blue mage has an equal or lesser set of number of skills than other jobs and other jobs often have many overpowered spells too. Like reflect. So "but I don't get to pick my kit therefore not true blue" is nonsense, that is not required to be true blue (not saying that's your argument, I'm speaking generally :p).


Currently they only partially gave true blue (if we accept the reasons why they made blue the way it is now), they still did the things they said they didn't want to do (multiple spells have been adjusted for balance reasons).



If it's true blue then remove the strict relationship with PF. If it's to be balanced then you can absolutely have spell learning and theme abilities to the monster originals while also being a normal job (some can be very much like the original like bad breath with some sort of cost or cool down, it's basically holy from white mage- it doesn't work on bosses for the most part just like holy).


My issue is no matter how you paint it the current blue is a mess (this isn't a statement into the future, they changes can change interpretation, depending on what they do- speaking 'current' only). If they wanted true blue then they missed with their nerfing of skills, if they wanted a fun and excitingly designed blue with good progression then they greatly missed (imo). If they want it limited then hopefully they check their reasons for their actions, like not forcing party issues, giving the full grand power, etc, if they wanted it to just be nonsense fun then again to go back because the design has pitfalls all over (easily logically argued the least interesting job mechanically during it's leveling process, and at cap until multiple PF exclusive spells), and if they wanted to balance it then great add it to the dang DF. Currently they did everything they said they didn't want to do and why it can't be in DF just so they can put it into PF.

Make Blue Mage a normal job!!! It'll be more fun, plus I'd play it when I can queue duty finder and get my spells more easily (That are DF only), while I explore around the map leveling and trying to get new spells waiting for a notification compared to party finder :3

I mean for starters all the 50 up job quests always end in a caveat from the trainer telling you to go find/learn this skill. Which becomes a requirement to continue the quest later on down the road. Why couldnt this just be the flavor of BLU's manditory skills within the framework, as it would be a normal job. Most class quests make no sense anyway as to how other jobs gain their skills through them anyway. PLD 2.0 job quests had you necromancing dead paladins to kill them and become more palidin-like at some point(?yup checks out) so the format of finding the necessary bread and butter skills as a job quest requirement seems fine for BLU. Since BLU has an actual trainer, like all Jobs/Job quest do, its just because their quests arent the same, come to x locatation, talk to x destination, fight enemy in preplanned purple fog location?(they do also have a few of these types as well, to be fair)

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

I mean for starters all the 50 up job quests always end in a caveat from the trainer telling you to go find/learn this skill. Which becomes a requirement to continue the quest later on down the road. Why couldnt this just be the flavor of BLU's manditory skills within the framework, as it would be a normal job. Most class quests make no sense anyway as to how other jobs gain their skills through them anyway. PLD 2.0 job quests had you necromancing dead paladins to kill them and become more palidin-like at some point(?yup checks out) so the format of finding the necessary bread and butter skills as a job quest requirement seems fine for BLU. Since BLU has an actual trainer, like all Jobs/Job quest do, its just because their quests arent the same, come to x locatation, talk to x destination, fight enemy in preplanned purple fog location?(they do also have a few of these types as well, to be fair)

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I think this is the most powerful cherry on top of why blue could easily maintain learning but also be DF able.


So if you picture blue getting a primal level 50 spell at level 73. No problem, they can go get it themselves solo. If it was a level 73 spell in a 73 dungeon, no problem can go learn it via DF. If it was part of some raid or hyper hard current content then you use the carnival / npc to have a mock battle. Like you can learn ram and dragon voice in the carnival rather than going out to do the relic quest, the mock carnival battle is easily be solo able. Add purple fog to that mix and boom...

Every single spell blue needs to be cool and DF-able is within reach when you work those systems together.


Which reminds me of SMN from FFXI doing their solo pilgrimage to get new primals. And is as you say very much like our current job quests at cap where you go do some cool battle anyways.


And some people have made kit ideas for DF blue but just reiterating kit blue is not 'true blue' simply learning monster spells is (and if we argue it has to be 100% the same then our current blue already failed that anyways). And many monster spells can work fine even with their weird theme, and made better by adding combos and gauge mechanics to them (ensuring an exciting kit, and sooner too) .

Of course I do think you might have a cool limited kit blue with wild combos, but I think our current blue missed that hard with majority useless and or pure improvement spell designs (120 vs 220 potency aoe.. oooooh lol) with limited interactions based nearly on just buff windows (looking at Diablo 3 / Hades as inspiration of example of combos being wild fun).

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Originally Posted by MaraD_

I never said I was against his point.
His examples just suck lol. (I actually agree with his 1st statement. Not so much the 2nd statement)

Though I do disagree to the idea "its not possible to make something work, with "enough" flavor, even if its not 100% the same amount of flavor."
But we all know people would complain still, even if its 99% the same.

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The example you used as RDM by way of SMN/SCH isn't just a question of flavor, it's a much more impactful gameplay decision that requires a lot of balance. RDM having Vercure that nods to its supportive roots in the series is different than having a separate job crystal that is a full-on healer.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Currently they only partially gave true blue, they still did the things they said they didn't want to do (multiple spells have been adjusted for balance reasons).

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They are more gameplay than balance changes. Likely as a result of people complaining that spamming Off-guard on one target for decent damage and poor on everything else. The damage bonus has been baked into the spells and the numbers are mostly comparable to the changes.
The "Brush with Death" status effect doesn't have any practical influence on the job. Prior to the changes, BLU would rarely use these spells outside of maybe as combo finishers and moogle tome farming. It's only gotten more potent in that capacity since the lvl 60 update and tome farming can work around and/or doesn't care about the debuff. This change mostly affected the puzzle cheesing that was going in SB. I guess you can count that as "balancing" if you squint just enough.

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

I mean for starters all the 50 up job quests always end in a caveat from the trainer telling you to go find/learn this skill. Which becomes a requirement to continue the quest later on down the road. Why couldnt this just be the flavor of BLU's manditory skills within the framework, as it would be a normal job. Since BLU has an actual trainer, like all Jobs/Job quest do, its just because their quests arent the same, come to x locatation, talk to x destination, fight enemy in preplanned purple fog location?(they do also have a few of these types as well, to be fair)

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Notice how since HW that job quests provide little to no abilities? It's because players haven't been keen on doing them. Now a single job should be exempt from that and do something that no other job does anymore? For job flavor? Ostracizing BLU for job fantasy would only work for the BLU fanboys, and not the majority of players. Making a job accessible to as many people as possible is what the developers want from a standard job.

Then you may as well say it should be a normal job. Like I have said countless times in previous posts, Limited Job is a system and if we move Blue Mage over to the Normal Job nothing will be lost. Limited Job is a system that is like the Normal Job system but with restrictions, to let it queue in DF you may as well make it a normal job and balance it.

Yes, there are preconceptions of Blue Mage but the key thing about what makes a Blue Mage is that they learn spells from monsters and have a wide variety of it. There is nothing whatsoever of it being an overpowered job, there is however saying the job is versatile in any given situation. So if they omitted or nerf some of the spells (Like throughout 5-11 FFs they did it and rarely anyone complains about that), let it have the ability to change its role at a certain level (Preferably at 60/70), make it a normal job. Then we got ourselves a Normal Job Blue Mage, cause at the end of the day Limited Job provides nothing and gives nothing. Blue Mage provides something and give us filler content (Which dies in 1/2 weeks).

It is like Fisher and Ocean Fishing, got all the achievement and fishes in ocean fishing? Then wait for the new patch for it to update (Which is happening in 5.4) except it is like 1 per expansion. Blue Mage has gotten two updates this expansion, which I understand in SB they only had enough patch for one update, but the fact of the matter is that they did two updates for this expansion which means something big might be coming for Blue Mage, and it may be in 6.0. I'll say it before and I'll say it again it can work as a normal job, the simplified answer is that they need to focus on giving it a job gauge and from there balancing Blue Mage will be a lot easier (Possibly). If in 5.4 they are saying they are planning something big, then I can assume they are planning on making it a normal job in 6.0 while 5.4 is the make it or break it point for them to experiment with Blue Mage right now. Level 70/Stormblood expansion is when Job Gauges was first introduced into FFXIV, so finger crossed they bring in a Job Gauge for them cause then it can finally become a normal job in 6.0.

Both Angel Whisper and Fire Angon are nerfed Auryan, neither need squinting to see that (Angel Whisper being the worst raise in the game and the worst Angel Whisper in the FF series). Similarly many status effect spells have lower chances and had more enemies made immune (I never got to ignore petrify as much as my enemies), yet you still spam on targets that do work (both balanced and boring mechanics combined - what a win . . .). Some of our buffs are not quite as like the monster counterpart. Brush with death was also a nerf but I wasn't even thinking of that.

If the point was true blue original spells they didn't do that. They balanced job for group play, after saying they didn't want to balance the job for group play.

It's true some balance could make more interesting combos, but I would argue their current design hardly successfully facilitated that (with the trinity forced there is little in the way of builds and a lot of useless spells and mechanics and in general low quality mechanics if you don't collect many party exclusive spells). If they were to balance but wanted it to be crazy for the full wildness of blue and most exciting game play while not worrying about any party issues then they failed, it still relies on party and the combinations are relatively tame so they can put it into their PF. If they were to balance it for party content then they then removed it from party content.. so they could offer majority useless spells and many spells that could work in DF balanced (bad breath would be fine), then again I would say they messed up. If they were going to make of exclusive party finder content I would say their communication failed and they chose the wrong design base (another limited job would have been smoother). I believe they were doing the last one, PF exclusive- manipulating true blue whenever it messes with their PF goal.

Your comment on accessibility is hard to take seriously as well since pretty much every major blue suggestion I've seen would make blue easier to pick up and available for more content. Current blue is the least accessible with entire core mechanics forced to the whim of the servers PF. Having to do a simple quest isn't inaccessible. Having to pray a group of people will be available to get a core spell on a job that has limited purpose and they have no reason to help you if they already have or don't want to do that content- that's inaccessible. Solo quests being considered inaccessible. . In comparison to forced PF on limited desire content. .? . . Most inaccessible blue is the one we have now.

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Originally Posted by TeraTyrantShadic

If in 5.4 they are saying they are planning something big, then I can assume they are planning on making it a normal job in 6.0

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Assumptions are a good way to court disappointment.
Speculating on this is fine, but I'd caution against getting my hopes up, especially when they've given us no indication they have any interest in making it a full job.

Didnt they also mention in passing they could make it a regular job but would need to do alot of tweaks to the class to balance it for content.

That's very interesting. Thay could be huge.
Can you give us a source for that?

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Originally Posted by Shougun

-snip-

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What? So BLU is only BLU if it's 1:1 with all of the series' spells? You can see why I didn't assume that was what you meant since my comment assumed you were being reasonable. BLU exists within XIV and isn't here to blow things apart. I don't know why a lot of people here gravitate to the idea that BLU should either be God-mode or a "normal" job.

Depends on what they meant by group play. Seeing as 4.5 BLU encouraged people to get spells together (at least the non-primal ones) and that is clearly group oriented. Perhaps they meant in the context of balanced, end-game like current Savage and Ultimate. They certainly wouldn't want BLU messing the delicate balance there. That is also backed up by them saying BLU's cap wouldn't match with the current expansion.

My comment about accessibility was in context of standard jobs. Standard jobs are designed to be as welcoming and easy to pick up by anybody. BLU isn't one, it's a limited job. They want as many people to pick it up, play it and collect spells/complete the achievements, but treat it as side content that it is.

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Originally Posted by Auryan

The example you used as RDM by way of SMN/SCH isn't just a question of flavor, it's a much more impactful gameplay decision that requires a lot of balance. RDM having Vercure that nods to its supportive roots in the series is different than having a separate job crystal that is a full-on healer.

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I know it would require that amount of balance/effort, but they already did that with SMN/SCH. I also meant RDM in place of them. As in, we pretend SCH/SMN were never made, but RDM was released with 2.0 as the "healer/caster job". All effort into making a shield healer and DoT caster, were instead put into how to make a dual cast Vercure healer, and a dual Cast Ver"nuke" caster.
Honestly take the current DPS RDM for the caster, and then pretty much remove some of the kit for the Healer version, while slapping on your emergency heals. Lastly, what seems to be the most obvious additional feature, is to add a "trait" to lower MP cost on heals. (5.0 healer builds were made more simplistic, so this type of RDM would never be allowed to exist)
If they werent trying to balance SMN/SCH, they would put all that same effort into RDMs black/white builds instead. (And SCH/SMN wouldnt have to be tied to the same class, allowing for those 2 jobs to be closer to their original flavors w/o causing issues with the base class they share)

Also "Good enough" is literally every single job in the game. There is no job in the game that carries over 100% of prior elements, that add to its historical flavor.
Every single healer who remembers casting raise on undead, at least tried to see if they could cast raise on undead. And every single one of them thought "This probably wont work... but imma try anyways!"
Not a single person said "They ruined the fantasy of being a WHM!"

This applies to BLU. Getting actions that enemies use, w/e the method may be, is the core "good enough" feature. If you want to be more accurate to FF5, you make them melee casters who have to get hit by the spell, and have a 100% chance of learning it. For some people, this would be "even closer" to what they consider "true bluemage".
At no point, does any sane person say "Its just not bluemage, unless I can instant ko every boss in the game". Just as being a WHM with holy magic is "good enough" and being able to instant KO undead isnt what most people consider "Its not WHM unless it can instant KO every undead boss"

Lastly, the MOST jack of all trades role in the game (both offensive and defensive) in Stormblood, and prior, were tanks. Tanks could have potent self heals, potent AoE and reasonable single target nukes, along with potent/effective control/buffs/debuffs. So I disagree with the idea that jack of all trades cant be in the game, unless youre idea of jack of all trades has to be able to be healer, tank, melee dps, ranged dps, and caster dps. (which is a whole different argument to make, since old FFs werent designed to function that same way, nor BLUs)

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Originally Posted by Auryan

What? So BLU is only BLU if it's 1:1 with all of the series' spells? You can see why I didn't assume that was what you meant since my comment assumed you were being reasonable. BLU exists within XIV and isn't here to blow things apart. I don't know why a lot of people here gravitate to the idea that BLU should either be God-mode or a "normal" job.

Depends on what they meant by group play. Seeing as 4.5 BLU encouraged people to get spells together (at least the non-primal ones) and that is clearly group oriented. Perhaps they meant in the context of balanced, end-game like current Savage and Ultimate. They certainly wouldn't want BLU messing the delicate balance there. That is also backed up by them saying BLU's cap wouldn't match with the current expansion.

My comment about accessibility was in context of standard jobs. Standard jobs are designed to be as welcoming and easy to pick up by anybody. BLU isn't one, it's a limited job. They want as many people to pick it up, play it and collect spells/complete the achievements, but treat it as side content that it is.

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You say they did what they did so they can make it original to the monster spells and then when they don't and I call out on it. You can see how I don't think you're reasonable either.


Either the reason was for true blue, or it wasn't. You claim it was because original spells, and I said they didn't do that in a number of situations. The reason to make it PF exclusive side content, sure (I've always claimed this was their actual goal, even if they said other things that seemed contrary) but for true blue is only partially there when it's convient. It's not a good fall back because they disregard it when it is inconvient and then use it as an excuse when it is. Feels dishonest.


Also fire angon isn't a reference to another game, it's to this game. Ours is a simple potency aoe, the monster's is far more interesting.

To put it another way:

Why isn't BLU in the DF? "because we wanted to make it true blue, with the original classic spells! We need to disregard balance to do this" (basically what SE said, and you're backing up)
Why are these spells not classic to their identity and or the game itself? "because we wanted to balance the job for party content so it would make sense and not be too OP" (basically what SE has done, and you said "so what if it's not the original from a classic" or "they did that change so it wouldn't be so spammy").
Okay so if you're willing to balance the job for party content why can't we have blue in DF? "Because we want the classic blue mage spells and they can't be balanced"
Why don't we have them as the classics are then? "because of balance"

Can't have the job due to balance so we'll make the job and balance it. Freaking glorious lol.

..... My responses to this that are polite are limited. Especially as many of Blue Mage's spells are absolutely balance able, all of the primal spells, all of the aoe potency colors, bad breath, and the strange ones like doom are a few tweaks away from being already balanced (since they work on almost no bosses anyways, give it an HG cooldown with some sort of damage up debuff on bosses, now you can use it on one trash for like the whole dungeon or you can use it on a boss and that's hardly trying to think, but no somehow "hardly works on bosses, and the things it does work on you'll probably have to cast it 10 times in a row cause that's cool for some reason" is better).

Or we get "it's not true blue if it doesn't have a kit", when that's only one game in the series of blue mages. Or it's not true blue if it doesn't have a huge list of spells, when every nearly single job in this game that was with blue had an equally long skill list OR longer.

Ultimately my point on this isn't that it has to be DF or god blue, but that the current blue has been sold and designed poorly, delivered with inaccurate and usually incorrect information, and that the design itself is not that good either. If it was limited fine it should be better designed, and if it would be normal then awesome because I'd have liked that.

Inaccurate information like what Razard was referencing SE said why they did what they did (he's not incorrect they said why they did it, just saying what they did and then what they did right after is wrong). "We did this so it didn't have issues with party content". Well obviously they forced the job into party content. Also funny to note is PF is always the more organized party content. DF is where you get loads of people who missed their job quests or don't even have jobs. If there was any place to have a mess of a job it would honestly be DF exclusive not PF (as that's how DF works anyways, with people coming in with broken gear and more). In pf they have stronger issues of not having x y z spell, unlike DF where someone not doing something right is a regular Tuesday. That said I wouldn't suggest to design blue like that, easy enough to make all jobs do their job quests. With blue mage leveling faster they can spend that extra time on getting their spells instead. But even if you argued that people should go incomplete if they want the place to that would be done is DF lol. PF will expect more from you.



Every reason for blue mage that they've given and I've read from you or others is then immediately countered by the design of the job itself. The only thing that holds true without logical issue is "we made it this way because we wanted blue mage to be PF exclusive and side content" anything else is a flimsy excuse that's not even followed through. Blue mage has to have a kit, lies, blue mage spells like bad breath cant work in DF (it's basically holy from white mage), lies, blue mage was made to be true and has all the classics and will have original spells (to this or other games, both are untrue), lies, etc, etc.

Blue mage was made to be side content and designed primarily for PF exclusive progression - truth. I agree, but I also think that was a misuse of blue mage and something could have fit better there (like magitek operator / gears / gundam like content). Even if it had to be of exclusive limited side content, I still think they could have done much better.

As for what I'd like to see, just to be clear since I occasionally diverge from the standard 'make it normal' (though I'd be happy if that came true) and am more "this wasn't well made and your reasons are horribly inconsistent":

A) Limited blue is made with disregard of any and all party content - and is now honestly and actually designed primarily for solo play, it is looked at from the ground up to ensure that the progression and mechanical fun is present from start to finish. The kit concept is massively emphasized with new mechanics interworking between multiple spells, no spell is purposefully made to be useless and each one should ideally feel exciting to get on it's own and when considered in a group of spells (this sometimes being hard to achieve but the goal for every spell). A lot of influence is made from games like Diablo 3 or Hades (games that have achieved this concept). The job would be used primarily for players to farm and enjoy old content they would be unable to do otherwise (because it's dead, you'd naturally be prevented from doing content too recent). There may be mechanics that make PF still fun like willingly nerfing your powerlevel to gain extra bonus items or something, but it would not be considered something you had or should need to do for any other reason than you had wanted to (job does not rely on the concept in the slightest). The purpose for blue mage is primarily designed to be solo content to help facilitate the progression of old content and allow players a casual way to progress things that are old, while also giving players a wildly diverse and exciting list of skills generated from the monsters of this and other games. A thoughtfully packed and consistently rewarding system where each new spell may generate a new way to approach your build or a new build.

B) Limited is left alone (no or few changes made to limited); however, normal job is also added. Normal job will help the limited side in a number of it's deficiencies, like if you can't get certain skills for limited you can do it via DF. Limited will help DF blue by getting some skills that might be hard to get otherwise. Together both help each other out, limited maintains being mostly a PF/side thing- limited blue mage is stated as much. "limited is to be a side content, used in PF, and facilitate the growth of blue mage DF".

C) A + B, limited is changed to be primarily solo focused, making progression DF blue exceptionally reasonable and one of the most easily accessible jobs in the game. THE accessible job.

In all three, or even an option I'd not want, they should re-present and ensure that it represents their design philosophy of blue mage because currently it's swiss cheese in terms of logic that they presented (if you consider it only as a side content, then it's not certainly, but they said way more than just it's side content).

outside of Blue-

- Make some other entirely new concept for PF exclusive ideas, like magitek operator. With the different type of progression it'll be more reasonable to come in late, and yet primarily be driven by party play. It's new and weird concept allowing it to avoid standard build concepts but also not be expected to be a normal job.
- May also consider something like archelogy as a limited job, non-combat non-crafting/gathering focused job, perhaps partnered with chocobo hot and cold content.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

-gish gallop in written form-

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I haven't suggested any of that. I don't appreciate people putting words in my mouth. Not once have I said that the spells should be a direct copy of the enemies learned from. And for a very obvious reason: it'd be impractical. Using your Fire Angon example. The spell is a boss mechanic that spawns adds that pulsates fire damage. Can you imagine that in a group setting where they're littered all over the place?
I'd be ridiculous to assume all of the spells would have literal game breaking properties, so I'm not going down that rabbit hole. Feel free if you want to.

And I'm so not interested in your theory crafting. But good on ya.

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Originally Posted by Auryan

I haven't suggested any of that. I don't appreciate people putting words in my mouth. Not once have I said that the spells should be a direct copy of the enemies learned from. And for a very obvious reason: it'd be impractical. Using your Fire Angon example. The spell is a boss mechanic that spawns adds that pulsates fire damage. Can you imagine that in a group setting where they're littered all over the place?
I'd be ridiculous to assume all of the spells would have literal game breaking properties, so I'm not going down that rabbit hole. Feel free if you want to.

And I'm so not interested in your theory crafting. But good on ya.

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Nice (Edit: read next page, leaving for history, but next page adds some nice context)

"It's for true blue!" Followed by "I'm not interested in having spells that directly do what the monster's spells do due to balance".


Incredible. Now I understand true blue is a meaningless word when you use it. If you use it to refer to kit building then you'd still be meaningless since that's just one game and is hardly a core aspect of 'true' blue.


Doesn't need the spell the monster uses, cause that be game breaking you say. Hilarious, same logic people use to want DF blue but then you cry true blue.


Gish gallop is here but is not from me. You've no logical consistency. Learning spells could've been done through solo play, DF, and quests, and by your own words they don't have to be direct monster equivalence if it concerns balance (and will still be 'trueee' blue). Even if you thought it impossible for a blue mage to learn skills you'd still have a DF blue that meets the blue 'magic' logic you've just given me (even if modified they're still blue magic spells). Though I call bull on that it is impossible to have a learning spell DF job (given that they level fast, so that extra time can be spent learning).


You've just used the logic DF players have used, that the spell doesn't have to be exactly alike to be blue magic. Only thing left is you dont think DF blue can learn spells and others do, if they made a DF blue that learned spells despite your lack of ingenuity then it's 'true blue' by the flimsy, and relatively meaningless, word I now know you use.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Nice



"It's for true blue!" Followed by "I'm not interested in having spells that directly do what the monster's spellsin do due to balance".


Incredible. Now I understand true blue is a meaningless word when you use it.


Doesn't need the spell the monster uses, cause that be game breaking you say. Hilarious, same logic people use to want DF blue but then you cry true blue.


Fish gallop is here but is not from me. You've no logical consistency. Learning spells could've been done through solo play, DF, and quests, and by your own words they don't have to be direct monster equivalence.


You've just used the logic DF players have used.

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A non-3000 word, rambling essay of a reply? Very nice.

Again, you've claimed something I haven't said, proceeded to create straw men and false dichotomies, misrepresent my opinions (and the developers') and then have the audacity to call me "logically inconsistent"?

I have never used the term "true blue" you keep repeating about and have have never called BLU as needing to have 1:1 copies of monster abilities. You and only you have. And as far as this...conversation is concerned, you're having it only with yourself.

i like blu OwO

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Originally Posted by Auryan

A non-3000 word, rambling essay of a reply? Very nice.

Again, you've claimed something I haven't said, proceeded to create straw men and false dichotomies, misrepresent my opinions (and the developers') and then have the audacity to call me "logically inconsistent"?

I have never used the term "true blue" you keep repeating about and have have never called BLU as needing to have 1:1 copies of monster abilities. You and only you have. And as far as this...conversation is concerned, you're having it only with yourself.

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This chain started directly from you quoting me on true blue. Also at the very start of blue mage release you had said they were making blue to be it's original form and so it needed to be limited.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shougun

This chain started directly from you quoting me on true blue. Also at the very start of blue mage release you had said they were making blue to be it's original form and so it needed to be limited.

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Must've missed that. Still, it's your term and I have never used it or plan to.

You remember what I wrote almost two years ago? I don't. Since you're really counting on this "gotcha!" moment, you can have it. You win, hurray. Is this conversation over now?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Auryan

Must've missed that. Still, it's your term and I have never used it or plan to.

You remember what I wrote almost two years ago? I don't. Since you're really counting on this "gotcha!" moment, you can have it. You win, hurray. Is this conversation over now?

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I do, I found you notable at the time (not an insult). If you say whatever said then what you mean and claim now is what you mean- okay. Things don't have to be stuck in annoying stone, but I was using what you said long ago in addition to what you quoted me on to formulate the conversation. If you did not intend that to be part of it (your quote on me, which included that catch phrase wording) and whatever long ago is long ago and now is 'now'- okay.


Conversation ends since points based on were not apparently intended. Also doesn't mean I win . . Lol.


Fun to learn the word gish gallop though, I enjoyed learning that.

Some have said SQEX mentioned in passing they could make BLU a full job. I've been digging to try and find a source for that, but in the process I kinda found them saying the opposite in an interview from last year with Destructoid (link at bottom):


"As far as whether or not Square Enix considers it a success, Yoshida answered with a resounding 'yes.'"


Obviously that says nothing about where they might want to take Blue Mage in the future, but it seems like for the time being the job is implemented as intended and, as far as I can find, no one from SQEX has commented publicly that it needs fixing.


https://www.destructoid.com/stories/...e-543587.phtml

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Originally Posted by Auryan

What? So BLU is only BLU if it's 1:1 with all of the series' spells? You can see why I didn't assume that was what you meant since my comment assumed you were being reasonable. BLU exists within XIV and isn't here to blow things apart. I don't know why a lot of people here gravitate to the idea that BLU should either be God-mode or a "normal" job.

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Not many are asking for a 1:1 for the spell list, throughout 5-11 every spell list for Blue Mage is different from each other while still having some of the iconic spells. Most of the time either they are nerfed (for FFXI case) or they are buffed (FFVIII) or some are omitted just to either keep it balanced, stick to the lore or just cause. Here is the thing, the developers did say it was meant for solo content but at the same time said you should be able to solo most of it. You can, but it just takes about 30mins+ if you are syncing a dungeon alone. Plus if you want your skill and you went solo, you just get a random chance of learning it rather than getting a guarantee from it as a group.

Here is the thing, Single Player games allow you to be ‘God-mode’ after you earned it which make sense, spending countless hours on a game and in the end getting the best of the best gears to fight the optional boss (Which sometimes are ridiculously OP than the final boss of the game and you need these high tier gear to beat it). That sort of logic doesn’t apply to an MMO because most of the time you’ll be interacting with the overworld as well and if they allow god-like skills, people will have a lot more of a hard time doing FATEs when there is tons of Blue Mages spamming Level 5 Death consistently without a cooldown (Thankfully, there is a cooldown) or skills with flat damage. So really, the obvious solution is to make it a normal job.

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Originally Posted by Auryan

Depends on what they meant by group play. Seeing as 4.5 BLU encouraged people to get spells together (at least the non-primal ones) and that is clearly group oriented. Perhaps they meant in the context of balanced, end-game like current Savage and Ultimate. They certainly wouldn't want BLU messing the delicate balance there. That is also backed up by them saying BLU's cap wouldn't match with the current expansion.

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Group play is just group play, there is only one meaning in that 'Two or more participants doing an activity together' there is no specific definition what they meant by that even in a game especially one that is a MMORPG (it is in the acronym). Blue Mage can't upset the balance in raids, because the raids nowadays have changed from ARR and HW times to now. They are vastly different, during ARR and HW you had to travel to the raid boss. Now you just spawn in front of the boss. Second you can't use Level 5 Death, Missiles, Launcher, 36-29/510 and Doom on raid bosses as that defeats the whole purpose of a raid boss and not just that we have achievements regarding about clearing both Coil of Bahamut and Alexander meaning the bosses are immune to these one shot. Even in utility you have to ask yourself, should I sacrifice my DPS to keep myself safe (Diamondback) or to heal the entire party (White Wind). Red Mage have the option to heal and raise, but doing that cuts down their DPS and it is better if nobody died in a raid. Also may I need to remind that there some raid mechanics are fixed/flat damage. Some can be shared between party members to spread the damage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Auryan

My comment about accessibility was in context of standard jobs. Standard jobs are designed to be as welcoming and easy to pick up by anybody. BLU isn't one, it's a limited job. They want as many people to pick it up, play it and collect spells/complete the achievements, but treat it as side content that it is.

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Except it's not. Blue Mage is easy to pick up, especially when you level it (NOT POWER-LEVELING) and learn the spells at the same time. The only reason why some people find it hard is because not many (I can just assume) are willing to put in the effort to go out and find the spells. The problem is not that it is not easy to pick up, the problem is the effort you have to go through obtaining the spells. Even then it is not a problem, had they made quests where you do combat with mobs that actually have a Blue Mage spell for you to learn, like one of the Blue Mage quests where you fight a Magitek Vanguard, the monster literally does Drill Cannon. It'll still be true to Blue Mage because you have just learned from a monster rather than a quest, also most of the instant/flat damage spells are at Level 50 (Tailscrew); Locked behind a side quest like Hildebrand (Missiles); Level 60 (Launcher & Level 5 Death); Masked Carnival after clearing 20 Stages (Doom) which is only unlocked at Level 50); meaning you can't one shot the mobs before you reach Level 50 Dungeons, because you have to be Level 50+ to even do Masked Carnival or the dungeon because they are still locked behind level requirement.

If they didn't give Blue Mage the EXP boost they would level at a slow rate, but even then it makes it easier for people to learn spell from quests and from overworld because it prevent them from immediately killing the mobs, not just that but we have tool tips and a text explaining about what is going to happen like when we do Bozja relic after all the role play text (White box text) or even a cutscene skip it shows a transparent text box explaining how you can obtain the memories needed for your relic, they could have done that with Blue Mage quests telling you that the mobs in this battle, quest or instance can teach you a move then you already remove majority of the problems and still stay true to the core identity of Blue Mage. When that happens once, people will automatically know the quest will contain spell they could learn and will actively avoid using flat damage/instant kill spells. As for the totems, they can keep them. However instead of using them as Masked Carnival rewards make them a learning reward where it rewards the players spells after learning X amount of spells.

Also jobs aren't side content. They are a way for a player to experience the content and not just some mini game. They can have their own side content like Fisher's Ocean fishing. I mean Red Mage is a versatile class like Blue Mage but why don't they have their own thing? It is because every job's content has a goal that can benefit the player a lot. Like with Bozja we get BiS Gear with 5 materia slots, that is far better than Eden weapons (depending on what relic you want). Bozja is also a side content and so is relic, it is not mandatory you do relic. Hell the same can be said for savage and ultimate raids because nobody is forcing you to do it therefore it is a side content and it is there for those who want to do it and they can keep doing it until they are done with it. Making a job a side content is never a good idea, it is better as a way for players to experience the content as a Blue Mage rather than playing it like a side content.

@itMe, just to add I've never heard of SE saying they might add normal either. I find that they seem to have sped up the level gap might mean something is possible, but for words from SE... Im in agreement.


@Tera some of Auryan and I's comments would be careful to use since we both had some wrong impressions. That they're not obsessed like some of us on blue would make sense they don't memorize everything, like I said a little bit ago I found them notable as in the begining they had admitted SE didn't really make a solo job as they said (but they also weren't really interested in being upset about a sole slide like some of us), they are naturally enjoying the concept unlike some of us lol, and the reason why I went at them on the 'logical' note was because long ago they had said some of the 'both' limited and normal ideas were not terrible (though they found them concerning if it damaged the quality of limited, and unlikely due to extra resource cost)- so a few pages ago when they said some of our ideas were adding a bunch of skills to the starting zones I was already a bit on the offensive (but that they recently said they don't recall everything two years ago makes it clear they weren't really thinking of the history we had long ago). I don't remember everything I do, like what I eat or wear each day is a mystery to me the next day lol. I tend to have a pretty good memory on impressions and intentions of what people say though (it also means I get upset easily if things diverge and no clarification is made, like the slide from 2018 that doesn't bother them sincerely bothers me as it feels like a lie). In my defense I know they normally snip my quotes, even long ago, so when they left the catch phrase in there I assumed they did it with purpose (which was not their intent).


Whatever they feel about our interaction I hope they would agree we would have been far quicker and cordial if we were speaking in person. As we could have quickly rectified concepts (also I admit to writing a lot but it's because I enjoy it and I've no idea which part of an idea someone wants to discuss or remembers so I tend to reiterate and expand everything, probably a bad habbit but I prefer to do it this way so each person can't claim to not know my intent... In person we would have avoided that and gone point by point).


Of course I'm with you in making blue different than it is now, and of course Auryan is enjoying the PF concept (using history here but I feel confident enough on that to say it lol).

Iunno I mostly enjoy the experience of helping other blue mages level and get the spells they need for stuff. Being a mentor of sorts. Its always fun to get them to Costa Del Sol, teach them Flying Sardine, then let them tag a mob as I then delete it with one ability. Their reaction to the level ups is usually wonderful moment. Its also just such a great feeling of, with a few tips of how to use certain spells like loom and what not, to see their joy after being Azulmagia. Even just helping them learn a spell like Inferno from Ifrit and their happiness from finally getting it after how many attempts is just a great reward.

Aside from the quest mandatory spells, I try to teach them: Loom, Sonic Boom, Sharpened Knife, and Abyssal Transfixition.

While I have leveled by myself before, its frankly a tedious process of grinding mobs for a long while. Plus being by yourself instead of with someone whose acting like a coach, Iunno just feels draining and lonely.

I'm personally happy that blue mage is going from 60 to 70 and getting more spells as it allows for more of those moments. Though I understand if not everyone just wants memories instead of being able to just go into a duty roulette as a blue mage (albeit modified for that content).

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Originally Posted by Chasingstars

Iunno I mostly enjoy the experience of helping other blue mages level and get the spells they need for stuff. Being a mentor of sorts. Its always fun to get them to Costa Del Sol, teach them Flying Sardine, then let them tag a mob as I then delete it with one ability. Their reaction to the level ups is usually wonderful moment. Its also just such a great feeling of, with a few tips of how to use certain spells like loom and what not, to see their joy after being Azulmagia. Even just helping them learn a spell like Inferno from Ifrit and their happiness from finally getting it after how many attempts is just a great reward.

Aside from the quest mandatory spells, I try to teach them: Loom, Sonic Boom, Sharpened Knife, and Abyssal Transfixition.

While I have leveled by myself before, its frankly a tedious process of grinding mobs for a long while. Plus being by yourself instead of with someone whose acting like a coach, Iunno just feels draining and lonely.

I'm personally happy that blue mage is going from 60 to 70 and getting more spells as it allows for more of those moments. Though I understand if not everyone just wants memories instead of being able to just go into a duty roulette as a blue mage (albeit modified for that content).

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Thanks for reminding me, abyssal is one of the ones im missing, is it a levequest only way to get it?