About the World Merge and Character Transfers (02/09/2012)

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Originally Posted by Elexia

But..but..the inactive people who'll be forced onto servers they didn't choose!

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Won't someone think of the children?! ;______;

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Originally Posted by Biggs

Spoken like someone that clearly thinks the 2 games are coded the same. ANd I am more than willing to bet not everyone thought the server merge in 11 was "perfect". You can't please everyone, its a game, deal with whats happening and adjust your plans accordingly.

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If I order a ham & cheese sandwich, see them make one and then put in a blender, spill the contents on a plate and get it handed over to me: I will not "just deal with it". I will f***ing complain.

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Originally Posted by Biggs

Thats right, if you wanted the sandwhich prepared your way, then you should have made it yourself. By asking for help to make it, you need to accept that the person making it can't read your mind, so they will make it the best way they know how. You have no idea what stipulations they are under with the game coded the way it is.

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While that's reasonable enough, I expect some sibilance of industry continuity. Instead of getting a ham sandwich, they seem to be giving me all the ingredients to my friends and expect me to prepare it myself. The point is, this is weird and seems to be different just for the sake of being different.

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Its their game, they can do whatever they want, however they want and if a player doesn't like it, no one is forcing them to pay to play. And I am more than willing to bet that in the coming weeks, with the number of people on here crying about it, they will actually offer some explanation as to why they have done things the way they have.

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I'm not going to quit the game over this, but I don't exactly appreciate this sort of treatment. And I should hope they offer an explanation for the strange divergence.

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Originally Posted by Choyi

Actualy that type of merge would work better in XIV since it wont have a chance to overpopulate end game HNM camps as mergers did in XI, seing as XIV engame is 90% instanced (10% stronghold rest is moogle/Ifrit).

I like SE as a game dev, but that doesnt force me to became a blind fanboy and agree with every decision they make, this merge system obviosly has flaws since alot of the community are now complaining and having worries about it and trough the forums we are voicing our opinion on the matter.

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And here we go. Because I don't have a problem with whats going on, I am immediatly a blind fanboy? Why don't you take the time to read other posts I have made about the game before mouthing off ignorantly about some blind devotion you seem to think I have to a corporation? I completely understand that not everyone is going to be happy with the way things are done, but like I said, the XI system and the XIV system are 2 completely different games, coded in 2 completely different ways. I am sure that there is a reason they have done things the way they have done them here. My ability to face reality and adjust my plans accordingly doesn't make me a fan boy, it make me grounded and able to cope with things I have no control over. BIG difference.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Is that unreasonable? I can ask for a ham sandwich and if it's prepared weird I have no right to complain? I'm paying after all. It's not like I'm threatening to quit or anything, I'm just issuing my concerns with this system and questioning why it came to pass.

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A ham sandwich is a personal service - something prepared for you that meets your personal needs.

This server merge is a service to the community. It will effect thousands. Thousands of people are not individually in the same situation, do not have the same desires and cannot collectively be pleased.

Fail analogy. Next please.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

A ham sandwich is a personal service - something prepared for you that meets your personal needs.

This server merge is a service to the community. It will effect thousands. Thousands of people are not individually in the same situation, do not have the same desires and cannot collectively be pleased.

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That's even worse!

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Originally Posted by Biggs

Amazing, you people begged and pleaded for a world merge/transfer and now bitch about the manner in which SE provides it? You do realize that if they could have done this a better way they probably would have right? You all really think they sat around thinking up ways to create this that would best screw you all? Thats like asking for help and then questioning the manner in which its provided. Face facts, many of the people that are "taking a break" aren't coming back. And for those that I hope do return, if its so important for them to keep the character they have made but took a break on in the same world as their friends, they can pay a sub fee like the rest of us and CHOOSE where they want to go in March.

Also, with as fast as it is to level up as well as the additions they are adding to make crafting easier, it really isn't that big of a deal to make a new character and get it up to where their old one used to be in fairly short order. Especially if they want to play with friends that I am sure are more than willing to help them do so. I just text 4 of my friends right after reading this to let them know about this, and most of them are gonna pony up a sub fee for one month so they can choose for themselves where they want to go. Seriously, not a big deal folks.

My thanks to SE for finally providing us something we have been asking for for a while now.

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QFT

Dumb people will be dumb people.

YoshiP made a long post on why he decided to go with this option rather than other options available... hopefully Bay or Rukki can post the translation soon.

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Originally Posted by Serdapi

Dumb people will be dumb people.

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This isn't a matter of intellect. It's a matter of opinion and preference.

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

YoshiP made a long post on why he decided to go with this option rather than other options available... hopefully Bay or Rukki can post the translation soon.

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Thank Halone!

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Originally Posted by KumaAkuma

If I order a ham & cheese sandwich, see them make one and then put in a blender, spill the contents on a plate and get it handed over to me: I will not "just deal with it". I will f***ing complain.

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if they blend it its no longer a sammich though

the better example would be them making the sammich with mustard when you dont want mustard, but you didnt say how you wanted the other stuff in it so they decided for you


in the end that is exactly what we are getting too

we asked for a merger, and since everyone argued about how they wanted it done, they are leaving it up to us to choose how we go along with it now

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Originally Posted by Gramul

This isn't a matter of intellect. It's a matter of opinion and preference.

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It's a matter of whining. A shining example of naivete.

This is a server merge. No matter how it is carried out, someone somewhere will be complaining. There is no perfect way to do it. There are only ways that will least effect 'you' personally.

They chose to go with a fair system - one that effects every subscribed player. It's a matter of coordination.

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Originally Posted by Biggs

This system works for me thus everyone that suffers from it must be a QQer and everyone should just agree with what SE decides no matter what.

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I'm sorry thats basicly all I can read from theese posts, no offence meant, I understand alot of people can't easily see something trough the eyes of another.

If you are content with this system, why are you making such a deal with propositions that could create a system that would work for alot more people, isntead belittening thoose who are voicing their concerns, labeling them as whiners.

Most likely the reason why its done the way it is, is because its cost efficiant and easy for them to implement.
Thats just as likely as a reason that would be a option thats best for the player community.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

It's a matter of whining. A shining example of naivete.

This is a server merge. No matter how it is carried out, someone somewhere will be complaining. There is no perfect way to do it. There are only ways that will least effect 'you' personally.

They chose to go with a fair system - one that effects every subscribed player equally. It's a matter of coordination.

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There's a REGULAR and PERFECTLY REASONABLE way to do it, and I simply would like to know [SIZE="7"]->WHY<-[/SIZE] they have chosen to do it in an uncommon execution.

Some in game examples to back up some points, the first in the list market ward was always over used because heck, its the top of the list. So implying that simply removing names stops over/under population is flawed. This is beside the point that numbers have connotations (lucky 7 etc).

The fatigue system was generally hated right? Because you couldn't choose what you actually wanted and were being forced into a certain play style. Having to pick a blind server name is like that but you know if the fatigue system would have enacted and said "pick a card any card it might be a class you want to play!" "Can't i have what i already like?" NOOOOOOOOOOO

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Originally Posted by Arksniper

Because if the server fills before all of your ls members choose the server then they are SOL. And do give the, "Well then they should log on as soon a choices are available." because guess what people have lives and jobs that don't let them sign on at SEs convienece.

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I understand that not everyone will be able to choose on the first day, but (in my opinion) I don't think that filling a server on the first day is going to happen, which explains why they chose not to name the servers right away. Part of the reason they are doing this the way they are is to give the german and french speaking players the chance to collectivly get on the same server to enhance their playing experience. So while you say this system is totally not fair for you, the system you propose is no less fair to them. You can't please everyone, but it seems like this system will please more people globally than just making the north american folks happy in the way you propose would.

All you guys with one ls or one group of friends are thinking so small. People with multiple ls or friends that aren't in ls but just on your friends list, you have to now follow those people on the lodestone to make sure you even know where they went. These are friends you don't play/talk to all the time but you would love to again. In this I could lose a lot of friends I made in the beginning of the game that STILL PLAY!

If you don't believe a server will be full in a day you must of not played the very first day of FFXIV. I played CE release 1 week early, Selbina was full the first day, they had to work on it to reopen it. I would like to know I'm picking Selbina again I picked that server for a reason on the first day of release, there was not another server I wanted to be on. I was on Selbina in Open Beta. I don't want to be on Mysidia or Lindblum ( especially the xiii named servers)

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Originally Posted by zaviermhigo

All you guys with one ls or one group of friends are thinking so small. People with multiple ls or friends that aren't in ls but just on your friends list, you have to now follow those people on the lodestone to make sure you even know where they went. These are friends you don't play/talk to all the time but you would love to again. In this I could lose a lot of friends I made in the beginning of the game that STILL PLAY!

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and at the same time, consider that you will make tons of new friends.....

friends come and go, as is life



i see an issue with people who have the max ammount of shells too, but then again as i look at those people, you gotta wonder how loyal they really are to any of those shells, so making them pick who to follow may not actualy be a bad thing

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Originally Posted by Choyi

I'm sorry thats basicly all I can read from theese posts, no offence meant, I understand alot of people can't easily see something trough the eyes of another.

If you are content with this system, why are you making such a deal with propositions that could create a system that would work for alot more people, isntead belittening thoose who are voicing their concerns, labeling them as whiners.

Most likely the reason why its done the way it is, is because its cost efficiant and easy for them to implement.
Thats just as likely as a reason that would be a option thats best for the player community.

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You call me a fanboy, misquote me, and have the audacity to say no offense meant? Ballzy. I actually do not have a problem with the system, but even if I did, I understand that this is happening in March, which is way too soon for anything I have to say against it to change things. They aren't going to change this, so instead, I would do my best to make plans accordingly. Please don't misquote me again. There is plenty of things SE has done that I don't agree with, this just happens to not be one of them.

Also, my ability to see why they have done things this way because of the international players is the very definition of seeing things through other peoples eyes. Grow up.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

There's a REGULAR and PERFECTLY REASONABLE way to do it, and I simply would like to know [SIZE="7"]->WHY<-[/SIZE] they have chosen to do it in an uncommon execution.

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Oh, there is a Regular and Perfectly Reasonable way?

I suppose you're referring to combining lower populated servers and keeping high populated servers as is? So half the community remains unaffected while the rest are forced together? Oh, but you allow people the freedom of choice to go where they want as well? This freedom comes with the cost of people losing contact with some friends potentially. No way around that one I'm afraid.

What about their last suggestion and/or plan to close down low populated servers and force people in them to pick from the highly populated ones. Very little choice in that, and again it does not effect some players while it drastically effects others. Also much more limited in space so the closing servers would have to be spread thin across existent large ones.

They had other plans. They were vocal about it. Since then there has been constant discussion about people complaining and suggesting other methods. No matter what people are unhappy.

So SE basically says: "Everyone's moving, and to brand new, empty servers. Coordinate yourselves and do it the way that will best make you happy. You have control."

Eh, that's enough from me. I don't expect to convince anyone to grow up on these forums. Just wait for the translation of Yoshi-P's post - you were asking for an explanation.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

And at the same time, consider that you will make tons of new friends...

Friends come and go, as is life.


I see an issue with people who have the max amount of shells too, but then again as I look at those people, you gotta wonder how loyal they really are to any of those shells, so making them pick who to follow may not actually be a bad thing.

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But it doesn't have to happen. We don't have to loose friends under the standard system.

(As far as we know. Patiently awaiting translation of the explanation.)

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Originally Posted by Gramul

But it doesn't have to happen. We don't have to loose friends under the standard system.

(As far as we know. Patiently awaiting translation of the explanation.)

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they already gave us a transtlation of the explenation actualy, go look at the other dev responded transfer thread

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Originally Posted by KumaAkuma

If I order a ham & cheese sandwich, see them make one and then put in a blender, spill the contents on a plate and get it handed over to me: I will not "just deal with it". I will f***ing complain.

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And how many people do you know blend their ham sandwhiches? They give a very good reason for doing this the way they did right in the initial post. They are tying to be fair to everyone globally (read the part about french and german players that are spread across every server). My point was, there was absolutly NO way they could have done this in a manner that pleases every single person. Had they done just a strait up server merge, I am sure the French, Japanese, and German forums would look exactly like ours do right now.

So at most, your ham sandwhich here was toasted, and you like yours plain. Far from being put in a blender either way.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

It's a matter of whining. A shining example of naivete.

This is a server merge. No matter how it is carried out, someone somewhere will be complaining. There is no perfect way to do it. There are only ways that will least effect 'you' personally.

They chose to go with a fair system - one that effects every subscribed player. It's a matter of coordination.

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It's not a fair system at all. Communities are being broken down in the progress. There are far less invasive ways to do this like for example merging entire servers.

Tell me why accoording to you the procedure they're suggesting is good. What benefits are being provided by that system over all the other ones.

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Originally Posted by KumaAkuma

It's not a fair system at all. Communities are being broken down in the progress. There are far less invasive ways to do this like for example merging entire servers.

Tell me why accoording to you the procedure they're suggesting is good. What benefits are being provided by that system over all the other ones.

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only if you tell me what prevents everyone on the same server from just choosing the same server to go to so that they all end up together anyway

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Oh, there is a Regular and Perfectly Reasonable way?

I suppose you're referring to combining lower populated servers and keeping high populated servers as is? So half the community remains unaffected while the rest are forced together? Oh, but you allow people the freedom of choice to go where they want as well? This freedom comes with the cost of people losing contact with some friends potentially. No way around that one I'm afraid.

What about their last suggestion and/or plan to close down low populated servers and force people in them to pick from the highly populated ones. Very little choice in that, and again it does not effect some players while it drastically effects others. Also much more limited in space so the closing servers would have to be spread thin across existent large ones.

They had other plans. They were vocal about it. Since then there has been constant discussion about people complaining and suggesting other methods. No matter what people are unhappy.

So SE basically says: "Everyone's moving, and to brand new, empty servers. Coordinate yourselves and do it the way that will best make you happy. You have control."

Eh, that's enough from me. I don't expect to convince anyone to grow up on these forums. Just wait for the translation of Yoshi-P's post - you were asking for an explanation.

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Okay. First, you can drop the passive aggressive act right now. No one needs that.

Second, yes, that's the system I'm talking about. It's been done before with minimal complaints. Being forced together means piratically nothing more than more new players for the community. And this way communities arn't broken up.

Another option is to add the small servers to the larger ones and middle servers to each other.
Bam, everyone's "forced together". So the "half the community remains unaffected" unfairness vanishes.

Hell, even a simple recommended server system would be better than making the whole community figure it out for themselves. At least then, people can just say "yeah, let's just stick with the recommended system" while other players so intent on leaving the old community can do so.

But maybe Yoshi's explanation will be reasonable, I wouldn't put it past him. (going to read it right after this)

EDIT: Looks like the translation was more for the world names, rather than an explanation as to why they decided to make the players choose and perhaps unintentionally split their communities.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

only if you tell me what prevents everyone on the same server from just choosing the same server to go to so that they all end up together anyway

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Sine it's first come first serve the servers have a decent probability of filling and those who are on break or don't have the current means to play are left to chance....

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Originally Posted by KumaAkuma

It's not a fair system at all. Communities are being broken down in the progress. There are far less invasive ways to do this like for example merging entire servers.

Tell me why accoording to you the procedure they're suggesting is good. What benefits are being provided by that system over all the other ones.

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It is many things. Unfair isn't one of them. It effects every subscriber the same way. Many other suggested procedures however cannot make the same claim.

The pros of this procedure is that it is fair, and that it gives the community full control. Personally, I would have preferred the old procedure they announced where high populated serves would stay as is while lower ones would merge unto them. See, this wouldn't effect me much at all and would keep my community on Lindblum intact whilst introducing new names as well. How awesome! However, I am not so selfish as to push a procedure that benefits me best as the best procedure universally.

It is a server merge - a necessary evil. With this procedure we as a community have full control. Things will change for everyone. We chose who to go with. Can we honestly say that all of our acquaintances on our servers and indispensable friends? Really?

It's an MMO. We'll move to a new server, meet new people (hell active forum-goers already have cross-server relationships) and make new friends. Seriously it's not difficult. We've all been losing tons of friends due to them leaving the game since it's launch already. Gradually, but surely. Then we make new ones. This ain't nothing new. People who enjoy eachother's company exceptionally (like a pseudo-FFXIV family) will already chose to stick together.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

only if you tell me what prevents everyone on the same server from just choosing the same server to go to so that they all end up together anyway

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Exactly. Nor does it solve the issue for the few international players that want to play with more people from their country. Why not just stand in town and shout which server you would like everyone to move too. This way at least gives everyone time to get a game plan together and get the most out of it as opposed to just slapping 2 large groups of strangers together and hoping for the best. It also seems like this way will cut down on the number of people that have to change their names because they are being forced into a server where that name was already taken. The same goes for Linkshell names.

The general opinion seems to disagree with your assessment that this will please more people. In fact, nothing about this system is likely to please the majority. It makes no sense to "help the community" by forcing it to splinter in this manner. Forcing Linkshells to break apart is not in the communities best interest, and it is completely unnecessary.

Sure, nothing will please everyone, but this method doesn't seem to please the majority, nor does it help them.

Holy hell linkshells will not split apart if you actually talk outside of the game lol.

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Originally Posted by Arksniper

Sine it's first come first serve the servers have a decent probability of filling and those who are on break or don't have the current means to play are left to chance....

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People not currently playing and paying subscription are clearly not a priority. I have friends in this category too. I will do my best to reach them and make sure they are aware.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

only if you tell me what prevents everyone on the same server from just choosing the same server to go to so that they all end up together anyway

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Communication. There is no way to pull this off. The differences in languages, the "sleepers" who are away or don't want to pay right now. Not to mention the size will probably not even be still available if by some miracle it does get set up eventually.

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Originally Posted by AlexNiculaie

The general opinion seems to disagree with your assessment that this will please more people. In fact, nothing about this system is likely to please the majority. It makes no sense to "help the community" by forcing it to splinter in this manner. Forcing Linkshells to break apart is not in the communities best interest, and it is completely unnecessary.

Sure, nothing will please everyone, but this method doesn't seem to please the majority, nor does it help them.

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It's not about pleasing the majority. That can't even be determined so easily with something like this. It's about not forcing something on a subset of players while others remain unaffected. It's about a system that gives the community the most control over how they migrate.

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It is many things. Unfair isn't one of them. It effects every subscriber the same way. Many other suggested procedures however cannot make the same claim.

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Just because everyone is subject to the same treatment does not make it fair. Many people seem to belong to multiple linkshells, it is not fair to force players to choice between them. And I am sorry, but thinking that somehow this is something which can just be "talked out" is ridiculous. The idea that every linkshell connected through degrees of separation are going to make unilateral choices is absurd.

I don't even have to make that kind of choice as I am in only one linkshell, but even I can tell this isn't fair to others. This is an overly complicated method to achieve something when there is a far easier, and less dramatic method available.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

It's not about pleasing the majority. That can't even be determined so easily with something like this. It's about not forcing something on a subset of players while others remain unaffected. It's about a system that gives the community the most control over how they migrate.

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I'm okay with control, but could we at least have directed control?
Even a simple recommended server system would prevent a lot of in game drama.

And while we're on it, why are we given the choice between 10 random servers anyway?
It seems pointless.

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Originally Posted by AlexNiculaie

The general opinion seems to disagree with your assessment that this will please more people. In fact, nothing about this system is likely to please the majority. It makes no sense to "help the community" by forcing it to splinter in this manner. Forcing Linkshells to break apart is not in the communities best interest, and it is completely unnecessary.

Sure, nothing will please everyone, but this method doesn't seem to please the majority, nor does it help them.

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They are giving everyone a choice where to go, so I fail to see how this system is forcing anyone? If anything, forcing the 12 french players on Kashuan to join the 10 French players on Mysidia by doing a server merge seems to be way more unfair than what is proposed here. If you really want to take as many people with you from your server as you can (friends list folks AND linkshell folks) you have amonth to start talking with one another and forming a game plan. Seems to me like thats way more fair than assuming everyone wants a server merge.

IMO they should let people choose their destination if they're active, the inactive people should choose once they activate their character again.

I am going to look at my new strange ham sandwich with mustard and go hey, this looks neat and give it a try I think. On that note im picking server 7, its my lucky number^^ (however with my luck it will be named something absolutely horrid im sure ;P)

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

I would like to offer some insight into why we decided not to display the World names.

The operations and development teams held many internal discussions regarding how the Worlds were going to be merged. We discussed displaying the World names and allowing players to choose their destination and we also considered having some Worlds dissolved and merged into other existing worlds.

We did consider deciding on the World names beforehand, but the problem is that players often choose which World to go to based on its name (to be more specific, currently both Selbina and Gysahl are highly populated due to the popularity of the World names).

Therefore, when merging 18 servers into 10, you can imagine that there will be a rush to choose the Worlds that have popular names. These would fill up quickly and we would have to stop letting people in, and then it would end up being something of a lottery. Taking into consideration the time difference and what day etc, it was really hard to decide, but as we are making playing together as a community a priority, we have decided to hold back the World names and let people choose this way.

We are aware that some players may be frustrated at this, and we apologize for that but please try to understand our reasoning. We haven’t decided which World will get what name yet. For, things like drawing lots and other methods, we want to think about this separately.

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Here is this from another thread.

Personally to me, doesn't this bring up the problem that Server 1 & 2, possibly3 will be filled almost instantly. Leaving the other servers have a medium to low population still?

I don't really understand the fairness arguement that it has to suck for everyone. I thought the reason for the server merger was that we needed servers with an increased population. By merging whole servers this is accompliced without touching the already exsisting communities. Why is this method unfair accoording to some people? Who is being treated unfair in this situation?