Cash shop pricing is getting a bit much...

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

You're assuming I wouldn't enjoy what I'm doing to earn the items. I see no reason for glamours to not be tradeable. If I could trade for them, then I could do the content I enjoy most in the game, which is crafting and gathering, to my heart's content to earn the items. As the game currently stands, though, there is so little to spend gil on that I haven't put any effort into making gil for the past 3 years. The lack of things to buy in-game is hurting my enjoyment of the game very much.

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I'm stating there are a lot of people who asked for "ANY ALTERNATIVE" to paying real money. This includes the fate grinds people hate so much or possibly rep grinds or achievement hunting.
That sounds like a different problem then what the cash shop creates though. Yes I am assuming the cash shop items wouldn't exist without the cash shop but we've already visited that counterpoint. Gil being valuable however is an entirely different discussion than "are things too expensive in the shop". I've heard it lamented that "Gil is worthless".. but then seen the same people raise up arms because the new MB manipulations outside the game in the app will be "pay 2 win" because you can buy armor that affects ingame performance... which would mean gil has worth? I'd rather not spiral down that hill in here.

Either way, you're complaining about a lack of content in the main game. I don't personally feel we've been denied items in the main game just so they can be put in the cash shop and we've been given no information to imply the team was "stolen" for the cash shop and therefore crippling item development. It may be naive to think they're telling us the truth about such a controversial subject but I've seen no evidence that hasn't been put together by the conspiracy factions that points to anything other than interest in profits and finding the "easy money". You have a most valid complaint: I need more stuff to spend my ingame currency on! But I don't think it has anything to do with the cash shop.

The other region items are pricey because that is what they cost converted from their regions shops.

NPC outfits have always been more than event outfits, and the prices have really been the same since the shop released. In fact, they removed exclusive items from the mogstation, as some of the metallic dyes were mogstation only at the start, and now they are all in ventrues.

The only thing I would argue is expensive is the emotes.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

I'm stating there are a lot of people who asked for "ANY ALTERNATIVE" to paying real money. This includes the fate grinds people hate so much or possibly rep grinds or achievement hunting.

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That's why trade is so great. Don't like those things? Trade for the item instead.

My complaint may not have been created by the cash shop, but it could be solved by it. Many other games, including WoW, which this game clearly copied a lot from, allow you to trade things bought with real money to be traded in-game for in-game currency. This would make gil valuable again.

Of course, you have to pass the RMT aspect of it by the consumers, but considering everything they've gotten away with so far, I'm confident they could do it.

As for gil is worthless/gil has worth, they aren't actually mutually exclusive as it would appear at first glance. Gil has worth up to a certain point. Beyond that point, its worth plummets. Most people who are into the trade game are well beyond the point of worth, but the average player is not.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

I don't personally feel we've been denied items in the main game just so they can be put in the cash shop

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I didn't think of it much, until the last Hildebrand quest came along, with zero rewards and cash shop items instead. That was just plain insulting.

Keep in mind though, every "exclusive" in the cash shop is an item we are being denied in-game.

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Originally Posted by Rinuko

It's optional though. If you really want it, you'll pay for it.

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Yeah, and they don't make us pay more than the subscription for the optional armor from dungeons and raids and crafting. We should just be thankful they're not trying to nickel and dime us even harder. /s

What a shitty way to defend the company.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

That's why trade is so great. Don't like those things? Trade for the item instead.

My complaint may not have been created by the cash shop, but it could be solved by it. Many other games, including WoW, which this game clearly copied a lot from, allow you to trade things bought with real money to be traded in-game for in-game currency. This would make gil valuable again.

Of course, you have to pass the RMT aspect of it by the consumers, but considering everything they've gotten away with so far, I'm confident they could do it.
As for gil is worthless/gil has worth, they aren't actually mutually exclusive as it would appear at first glance. Gil has worth up to a certain point. Beyond that point, its worth plummets. Most people who are into the trade game are well beyond the point of worth, but the average player is not.

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I'm not personally against trading items purchased in the shop for ingame currency. I like watching people enjoy their toys and it'd open up the world for a lot of people. But I think the block there is that RMT possible link. It's not the consumers that are the only concern, we have the bots who will now have the chance to make even MORE money since Gil would be quite valuable to most people again and have a link to a real world cash item. Gil would have a set cash equivalent : so many fantasias or emotes. It would be a boon for the gil botters and I'd like to think that SE wouldn't cross that line.

I am not against people acquiring items with effort though. I would, however, like to remind people that there are other avenues to their goals. =]

The funny thing about the gil being worthless to trade game people is some of the loudest opponents of introducing a possible (even if it's insanity) p2w aspect were the crafter/mb people. They have quite the attachment to the amount of gil available.. even if it's "worthless".

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Originally Posted by XiXiQ

I didn't think of it much, until the last Hildebrand quest came along, with zero rewards and cash shop items instead. That was just plain insulting.

Keep in mind though, every "exclusive" in the cash shop is an item we are being denied in-game.

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Keep in mind that barring hypothetical alternate worlds and timelines we will never know, given all the information we have right now "exclusives" are items that would have never been made without the cash shop. There is an item that was made to be sold, you are not being denied it. It is not available through the game itself and never had plans to be. Limited our information on this may be, that is the current given truth. They could be lying, of course. You work on the assumption they are, I work on the assumption they are not. Hence my original statement.

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Originally Posted by Tiraelina

Hey SE! Let us buy Ultimate weapons and raid drop packs, I don't have time to raid because I'm a working adult with poor time management but I have lots of money!

I can also argue that you should accept your busy adult life that doesn't have as much time free instead of expecting to be able to throw money at everything.

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Hey, look. More hyperbole and doomsaying. Because, Heaven forbid, we try to have a civilized conversation/debate about this without either of those. Just gonna copy this from a previous post.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Unless you have absolute and definitive proof that SE's cash shop is going to go the actual route of pay-to-win in order to progress your character with no other reasonable alternative (keep in mind that EA had no reasonable alternative: it was either lootboxes or spend thousands of hours attempting to catch up, a near impossible feat), all you are doing is doomsaying with your post. One reason people can't take posts like yours seriously is because of the doomsaying and the "slippery slope" logic.

SE doesn't seem like a moronic company; it would only take them five minutes of research to see the backlash they would receive for ever implementing actual pay-to-win features like EA-esque lootboxes.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Hey, look. More hyperbole and doomsaying. Because, Heaven forbid, we try to have a civilized conversation/debate about this without either of those. Just gonna copy this from a previous post.

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Yes, it is in fact hyperbole, it wasn't trying to be anything else. I don't know where you get doom saying out of that though.

Paying to have an advantage has been getting pushed, very successfully. The usual response to anyone arguing against it? To be pedantic over semantics instead because somebody said pay-to-win or something similar. I'm pretty sure that falls under the straw man. No, that part really isn't hyperbole either. This has been argued the exact same way since paid retainers were first known about. It sure got us places, and by places, I mean nowhere. It really doesn't matter to me how worthless someone else thinks gil is, I still enjoy selling things. It's more important to me than savage or ultimate, yet you won't find me (seriously) arguing to allow you to buy through it. I know it would be bad for the game. Instead there's just meaningless arguments about which piece of the pie (XIV) is more sacred than the rest in regards to purchases instead of simply pushing back.

Even outside of advantages, cash shops are toxic to subscription based games. Why would they need to make long-term content that keeps players leaning towards being active when they could just release more things on a store that covers its own cost within a dozen sales. I have zero reason to believe a large business claiming the money will be used to help the game either. All we've been getting from SE themselves is server issues this and that, for servers running on a hope and prayer they can certainly handle another 6 retainers. The fact SE keeps recycling content ad infinitum instead of making something interesting is beside the point here. Stagnation is a bigger problem than anything else.

EA has also already removed loot boxes from that game because of the backlash, narrowly dodging being classified as gambling. If only it was retroactive, ME's multiplayer isn't bad.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

all the people who complain about the cost and how they would rather be able to earn it in game even if it takes months. Get your butts out there and make some money. The opportunity to get those items IS there, you just have to spend a little more effort in REAL life.

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Dear SE please raise all the prices of the mounts to 200 $ and make them single character only. Because if people complain that one digital mount costs more than the monthly sub they pay it seems that they just dont earn enough money and thus have no reason to complain. So if someone does not want to pay 200 $ for it they should just earn more rl. (And yes this is sarcasm)

This is a game and a MMO..it should take time to get stuff. (Reasonable time and not years or something) But hey please put savage stuff in the mog station. I dont have the time and group to clear it and because of that lets sell it for money..

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Hey, look. More hyperbole and doomsaying. Because, Heaven forbid, we try to have a civilized conversation/debate about this without either of those. Just gonna copy this from a previous post.

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Why cant she not ask for ultima weapons in there? They are just glamour anyway and since buying stuff for glamour is fine that should be fine too right? It just really annoys me that people can point out that someone should just earn more money as if your complains are only there because we could not afford it..instead of just accepting that not everyone is fine with the prices on these digital goods and point out how far you could take that. Tiraelinas post was not even about P2W but more about Krotoans post that its about the income of people and thus saying that if its fine to pay a price because they dont have time to grind for it ingame then this should happen to savage too since not everyone has time and the stuff is glamour.

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Originally Posted by Tiraelina

Yes, it is in fact hyperbole, it wasn't trying to be anything else.

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Best to avoid those in the future. It doesn’t make people more inclined to listen to what you have to say, because they will more than likely just dismiss the rest of your arguments as hyperbole or as exaggerations.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Why cant she not ask for ultima weapons in there? They are just glamour anyway and since buying stuff for glamour is fine that should be fine too right? It just really annoys me that people can point out that someone should just earn more money as if your complains are only there because we could not afford it..instead of just accepting that not everyone is fine with the prices on these digital goods and point out how far you could take that. Tiraelinas post was not even about P2W but more about Krotoans post that its about the income of people and thus saying that if its fine to pay a price because they dont have time to grind for it ingame then this should happen to savage too since not everyone has time and the stuff is glamour.

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Back before 4.2 and the new tier of gear, the Ultimate weapons were actually BiS for those who cleared because of the three guaranteed melds on top of the same stats as the Genji weapons. That said, those who cleared Ultimate were not doing it for the “glamour”; they did it for the challenge.

Current-tier Savage gear is also not glamour—not at all in the same sense as the actual glamour items present in the current cash shop. I have no idea where you even got that, unless you are also being hyperbolic. In which case, see above.

People that are anti-cash shop want to cry about how it’s pay-to-win because you can rent additional retainers; being able to buy potentially BiS weapons would actually make the cash shop pay-to-win. She isn’t asking for them; she’s making a hyperbolic, sarcastic statement to, I guess, further her own argument. But hyperbole and sarcastic remarks aren’t going to make people listen to you. They’re just going to make you look petty.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Why cant she not ask for ultima weapons in there? They are just glamour anyway and since buying stuff for glamour is fine that should be fine too right? It just really annoys me that people can point out that someone should just earn more money as if your complains are only there because we could not afford it..instead of just accepting that not everyone is fine with the prices on these digital goods and point out how far you could take that. Tiraelinas post was not even about P2W but more about Krotoans post that its about the income of people and thus saying that if its fine to pay a price because they dont have time to grind for it ingame then this should happen to savage too since not everyone has time and the stuff is glamour.

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Ultimate Coil weapons are indeed glamour right now since the ilvl's are not any better than the current Savage tier so you're right about that, however, the actual current Savage Sigmascape tier is not just glamour pieces. It's significantly better gear than the normal Sigma gear and questionable in some terms up against the Dai-Ryumaku gear depending on which piece has the better BiS weight. Diamond gear is not just for glamour.

I just wanted to correct that, sorry.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Dear SE please raise all the prices of the mounts to 200 $ and make them single character only. Because if people complain that one digital mount costs more than the monthly sub they pay it seems that they just dont earn enough money and thus have no reason to complain. So if someone does not want to pay 200 $ for it they should just earn more rl. (And yes this is sarcasm)

This is a game and a MMO..it should take time to get stuff. (Reasonable time and not years or something) But hey please put savage stuff in the mog station. I dont have the time and group to clear it and because of that lets sell it for money..

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Your exaggerations help convince me to adopt your perspective very little. If you want to have a reasonable discussion that's fine, if you're going to take everything I say and run 20 miles down the road with it.. I'll just ignore you like some others.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Why cant she not ask for ultima weapons in there? They are just glamour anyway and since buying stuff for glamour is fine that should be fine too right? It just really annoys me that people can point out that someone should just earn more money as if your complains are only there because we could not afford it..instead of just accepting that not everyone is fine with the prices on these digital goods and point out how far you could take that. Tiraelinas post was not even about P2W but more about Krotoans post that its about the income of people and thus saying that if its fine to pay a price because they dont have time to grind for it ingame then this should happen to savage too since not everyone has time and the stuff is glamour.

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The idea is to earn the price for something that HAS a set price, not that everything should have a price. I apologize I didn't phrase that explicitly enough. You can turn everything someone says into insanity by dialing it up past a reasonable level. I'm not supporting cash = completion. I'm saying that an item being buyable for money isn't the barrier you think it is.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

People that are anti-cash shop want to cry about how it’s pay-to-win because you can rent additional retainers;

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Her post was about a post that pointed out how those that dislike the prices are only doing so because they dont earn enough money. Answering sarcastic to such a post is imo not the worst one can do. I think that would show quite well how the other poster was kinda wrong.

Also this thread is not about retainers, P2W and other stuff. These points were discussed in other threads more than enough. This one is about pricing! And her reaction was about the post that selling the glamour (which is as important to some as savage to others) is fine because people dont have time to play the game much. So she answers that since she does not have time to raid it should be fine to put the savage stuff in the shop too. So its not about P2W, its a sarcastic hint that the argument of "I dont have time" can be used for much more.

In the end people play this game for different reasons. I for example like to collect stuff, like Glamour, Pets, Mounts. I cant complete my collectin and thus cant reach my goal thanks to the cash shop. So for me all those mounts and stuff in there is like putting savage gear in it. But somehow we should be fine with that because its only glamour. (But again this topic is more about the prices..)

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Your exaggerations help convince me to adopt your perspective very little. If you want to have a reasonable discussion that's fine, if you're going to take everything I say and run 20 miles down the road with it.. I'll just ignore you like some others.
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And your post about saying that people just dont want those prices because they dont earn enough money wont help me understand your perspective very little. We have given more reasons than that but you put them down to: We dont earn enough and thats why we dislike it. Thats also not how to do a discussion. I did use a bigger price because I wanted to point out how one could even use the argument there. Lets get a bit down. If they go around and add a mount for 50$. Would you be fine with that? Would you go around and say that people just dont earn enough money and thus should not complain about the price. When will they reach your comfortable zone? And yet when they reach that another person can just come and say: Welp they can do whatever they want this is just glamour and since I can buy this without a problem you should not complain because you just need to earn more.

This was my point of the post. To show that even if they would raise the price soo high, that you could still use your argument. So it does not make a good argument for me. (And enough people already pointed out that they could buy it but that they still find it too high)

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

Ultimate Coil weapons are indeed glamour right now since the ilvl's are not any better than the current Savage tier so you're right about that, however, the actual current Savage Sigmascape tier is not just glamour pieces. It's significantly better gear than the normal Sigma gear and questionable in some terms up against the Dai-Ryumaku gear depending on which piece has the better BiS weight. Diamond gear is not just for glamour.

I just wanted to correct that, sorry.

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Oh I know. I would also completely argue against SE if they ever decide to put them in the shop (even if this would never hurt me). I am just sad that its fine for some people because its just glamour. Yet glamour/pets/mounts may mean a lot for some of us (just like some love savage). If I might want to nitpick I could argue that they can put the weapons in there as pure glamour too without any stats thus making them useless in fights. I am still sure that this would not be fine for a lot of people that raid even though its just glamour too. In the end I wanted to point out how you can spin that argument to everything.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Her post was about a post that pointed out how those that dislike the prices are only doing so because they dont earn enough money. Answering sarcastic to such a post is imo not the worst one can do. I think that would show quite well how the other poster was kinda wrong.

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Didn't you speak about how other posters shouldn't be using an "eye for an eye" in Kaiva's thread and now you're allowing it here? You're kind of going back against your own words. Reacting sarcastically towards another user's sarcastic post solves nothing and in fact, is just as bad as being rude or insulting, it creates a hostile environment where everything starts to become approached by high-strung feelings rather than rational thought.

I mean, if that's what you believe then fine, I can't change your opinion only you can, but...you can't call out other users for doing it and then say that it's acceptable in this situation because of a "this user did it first, so it's okay for this user to to do it too". It's still an eye for an eye no matter which way you can spin it...

Both sides got a little heated, but you shouldn't respond to sarcasm with just more sarcasm, it goes no where as Hyomin had said and just makes you look petty and blowing things out of proportion. Although, sometimes it is hard to avoid in certain topics, but...hyperbole and exaggerations seems to be the trigger that riles everyone up lately too.

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

Didn't you speak about how other posters shouldn't be using an "eye for an eye" in Kaiva's thread and now you're allowing it here?

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The eye for the eye thing was more about insulting the poster which I did not. We kinda did want to point out how the argument can be used even further and on everything. Like if you say that its fine that they use the price then its fine to use the prices even if they reach quite high. That points out a flaw in their argumentation and is not about insulting the poster. (Which my post in Kaivas thread was about) If I would go and say how she is xxx and should stop posting or calling her names I would be rude. But pointing out how far one can take the argument is imo not. I also said that its not the worst one can do which means that it may not be the best either but it also is not attacking them or anything.

My own sarcasmus was more about a hint that I did not mean it as that. That I would not be fine with it costing that much money.

Edit: But maybe it got a bit too heated and for that I am sorry. I just really dislike arguments that make it look like we are just poor and thus thats why we complain. They dont do much for the discussion and I wanted to point that out. Maybe in the wrong way.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

dismiss the rest of your arguments

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

civilized conversation/debate

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So you have nothing to add this conversion except for a kneejerk out of context reply and further nit picking, got it.

On a more serious note, regarding the pricing structure...only a few things have actually changed over time and the Mogstation has been around since Heavensward, correct? I don't quite remember when it first started, but it has to have been several ongoing years now. I'd like to think that if SE really wanted to just gut us like fishies, they would have bumped the prices up severely at the start of the new expansion because that's when a lot of people come flooding back into the game. Instead, they're raising certain things while devaluing some others in gradual increments over time. Are they perfect prices? Not really. Is it extortion? Not necessarily. And yes, I don't even consider the statues to be extortion because you're paying for a hand-made, quality painted and sculpted work of art that probably took some poor Japanese worker months to create. Did those statues need to come with an emote? Not really, but we know why they do because it's an incentive to get people to spend money on very shiny paper weights. $150 is within the normal range for figurines, depending on their craftsmanship, quality, and rarity.

Certain things like emotes I think should have already been in the game via purchased through Gold Saucer or GC seals, those aren't worth the price to me. The dyes they are getting better with over time. The NPC costumes? They could have been sidequest options as older RPG's have done in the day, however, I think we're over that era unfortunately and it's not coming back. They could stand to be cheaper. I can buy glamour for my Neptunia and Tales games at like...$2-$5 per outfit or item from the PSN store. The Chinese/Korean exclusive stuff? We will probably never see any changes since it wouldn't be fair towards the actual developers and players from those regions if we got something far cheaper than them. The mounts? Some stuff is a bit over-priced and could have been packaged together like the Carbuncles and some of them just aren't worth buying period like the Fat Moogle one. Even if I could spend $35 on it, I'd never use it and I see less and less people using the atrocious thing every day so maybe over time, they'll reduce it hopefully. But, as far as I know of based on knowledge from a friend who still plays, WoW mounts are priced a bit higher than our mounts in their cash shop, however, Blizzard at least offers discounts and bundles at much higher ratios and SE hasn't even offered one. I think if SE started offering bundles on certain items, it may alleviate some of the other people's distress with the cash shop. And finally for the minions? Those aren't really worth the price either and could stand to be knocked down a few pegs simply because once you have so many minions, you kind of focus on a few favorites that remain out all of the time and then you ignore like....half of the rest of them (I'm looking at you Morbol Seedling and Little Rat). Some minions could have been tied with events or quests as well.

All in all, we have numerous ideas to fix the Mogstation, however, the likelihood of SE doing anything is...probably about 5% because they focus on a "don't fix what isn't broken yet" mentality.

And with that, I have to get to bed or my fiance is going to be really angry if I sleep past noon again tomorrow since it's 6am. Goodnight~

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Originally Posted by Tiraelina

So you have nothing to add this conversion except for a kneejerk out of context reply and further nit picking, got it.

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I’ve already said my piece previously. Feel free to go back and find it.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Get your butts out there and make some money. The opportunity to get those items IS there, you just have to spend a little more effort in REAL life.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

If you're on a fixed income and have budgeted for a video game but don't have enough to squirrel away a couple dollars a month til you have enough for the item, you probably can't really afford that video game either. You are one misfortune away from disaster. BTW people with cancer and developmental disabilities are still capable of many things, including finding other means of income than hard labor.

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I really can't describe your attitude as anything but obnoxious and condescending. I have a friend waiting to hear if she needs a third operation for cancer this year, and you can be 100% sure I won't be waving my good health and superior earning power in her face or suggesting she starts looking for secondary employment, since she is unable to do her normal job.

Back to topic
You are assuming everyone arguing against the prices is either poor (oddly enough this is not seen as some sort of moral deficiency where I come from), unable to budget or both. The point of the thread was that the prices in the cash-shop are too high, and in some cases I have to agree; the price of some recent additions does seem pretty steep to me.
It's not that I can't pay, it's that I think the items are overpriced.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

And your post about saying that people just dont want those prices because they dont earn enough money wont help me understand your perspective very little. We have given more reasons than that put you put them down to: We dont earn enough and thats why we dislike it. Thats also not how to do a discussion. I did use a bigger price because I wanted to point out how one could even use the argument there. Lets get a bit down. If they go around and add a mount for 50$. Would you be fine with that? Would you go around and say that people just dont earn enough money and thus should not complain about the price. When will they reach your comfortable zone? And yet when they reach that another person can just come and say: Welp they can do whatever they want this is just glamour and since I can buy this without a problem you should not complain because you just need to earn more.

This was my point of the post. To show that even if they would raise the price soo high that you could use your argument still. So it does not make a good argument for me. (And enough people already pointed out that they could buy it but that they still find it too high)

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I'm sorry suggesting you go out and acquire the resources necessary to achieve your goal is so antagonizing.
Reasons given:
It's too much
it shouldn't be for money
this is a small step on the path to total monetization
SE needs to make these items accessible to all even those who cannot pay money

I think i've addressed all of this during the thread but I'll recap:
It's equal to or less than other similar services from other games.
It wouldn't exist if the money wasn't being paid for it.
Being afraid to offer things because they can be taken to unwanted levels or being against things for the same reason is alarmist and prevents lots of good things from possibly happening.
I don't think they do, it'd be nice but it's not a moral issue.

you can post ridiculous prices over and over and tell me "well what if they.. " but they wouldn't. $200 dollar mounts to you AND me are prohibitively expensive. Just because we're ok with one price isn't a green flag to just throw prices at us until we can't pay, that's not how this works. They do research for what people are willing to pay and price accordingly. You can take any argument to a ridiculous example but it only makes you look unreasonable.

I'm not implying you all are poor peasants who can't afford the things I can cause I'm so much better.. I don't think I'm better and I honestly apologize if that's the message you're getting. I'm saying that there are solid and doable ways to get what you're coveting. If you truly don't find it worth it, then don't buy it. Saying you'd buy it if only it was cheaper is a non-comment though, that's nearly everything for everyone. The stuff will go on sale, so wait. If it's still not enough bang for the buck for you I'd say you'd never buy it unless it gets reduced to spare change.

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Originally Posted by Solarra

I really can't describe your attitude as anything but obnoxious and condescending. I have a friend waiting to hear if she needs a third operation for cancer this year, and you can be 100% sure I won't be waving my good health and superior earning power in her face or suggesting she starts looking for secondary employment, since she is unable to do her normal job.

Back to topic
You are assuming everyone arguing against the prices is either poor (oddly enough this is not seen as some sort of moral deficiency where I come from), unable to budget or both. The point of the thread was that the prices in the cash-shop are too high, and in some cases I have to agree; the price of some recent additions does seem pretty steep to me.
It's not that I can't pay, it's that I think the items are overpriced.

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I'm sorry you took it that way. I personally find it strange you equate my telling you that people with disadvantages or challenges in their life are capable of doing things as suggesting your suffering friend with cancer needs to go work more. I can be reasonably sure her concerns in life are far worse than "I can't get that eastern dance emote" and getting the money to cover that. You keep acting like I'm telling people in particularly dire situations that I think they need to go make more money though, if it makes you feel superior to me. What I meant was "for the time you would have spend 'grinding' something ingame you could have earned the money to buy the cash shop item". What you seem to think i said was "everyone who cannot afford it is lazy and no matter who you are if you don't like the prices you're just not trying hard enough".

No the point of the thread is that the prices are INCREASING but they are not. They're adhering to standards pretty well.

I won't be so assumptive as to tell you the prices are reasonable for YOU, but I will say that for most of the public they seem to sell reasonably. You are welcome to decide what is worth how much money for yourself, but I will argue with you if you declare others should think so as well. Based on a median income of the average gamer, it's really not that much and compared to other things with similar entertainment value and longevity it's comparably priced.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

In the end people play this game for different reasons. I for example like to collect stuff, like Glamour, Pets, Mounts. I cant complete my collectin and thus cant reach my goal thanks to the cash shop. So for me all those mounts and stuff in there is like putting savage gear in it. But somehow we should be fine with that because its only glamour. (But again this topic is more about the prices..)

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No one is saying you needs be fine with the cash shop. You are, after all, entitled to your opinion. That doesn't mean the cash shop is some massive blight. While you may prefer collecting things, gameplay will always hold superior value because that will remain the core concept of any game. You cannot equate Savage gear to minion. Or if you do, you'll have to accept few will agree they hold equivalent value.

Pricing has been the same for years. It has not changed. Stop acting surprised, it makes you look comically out of touch to suddenly be outraged by the status quo.

I've got to chime in with HyoMin and others who've pointed out that the pricing for these items are in line with items of the same type, not more than them...


Also, that there's no way these specific items would ever have been free for us.
They were commissioned by the other region companies for their game's shop.

They would always have been either a promotion, or on our cash shop.
And considering how well SE has shown they've done with the promotions, EU in particular, the cash shop is probably the more reasonable preference.




On the Hildy attire...
That's a bit of a head scratcher.



Sure, it's something that could have been a quest reward...
But, it's also gender locked to male...
Which, kind of makes it bad as a quest reward...

Which would require a female version to be made, and that comes with the baggage of the whole glamour disparity of genders...


The whole situation with that item just feels icky.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

I'm sorry suggesting you go out and acquire the resources necessary to achieve your goal is so antagonizing.

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Its not about being antagonizing, its about putting the issues that people have with the cash shop, its prices and things like that in a sub MMO down. You can be someone with a huge income and yet still find it bad. (I dont have a huge income but I am far from poor and could buy things from there but I dont anymore for different reasons)

Also I did get down on the prices and went with 50$ on my last post. Again this is more about the: Where will you draw the line? But if they reach your line then cant someone else come and point out that this is simply the price that SE believed it would be right and anyone that cant pay that just needs to earn more thus any concern of you would be nothing?

The thread was also not about price increase. The OP even states that the prices recently have been the same but that they still find it bad because if they want the complete package they need to pay over 50$. Also we simply dont know if this is fine for most of the public. First we dont even know how many people are buying them and how many of those that are buying them do that because they really want it but at the same time still feel bad. And how big is the chance that if SE suddenly decided to drop the prices to 50% people would dislike it? (I would dare to say that quite a few items sold on sale) Because its just surprising to see people argue against decreasing them.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

No one is saying you needs be fine with the cash shop. You are, after all, entitled to your opinion. That doesn't mean the cash shop is some massive blight. While you may prefer collecting things, gameplay will always hold superior value because that will remain the core concept of any game. You cannot equate Savage gear to minion. Or if you do, you'll have to accept few will agree they hold equivalent value.

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I know thats why I would equally argue in threads if they would ever decide to sell such. It would not matter to me because I dont care for savage but I also know that other people care for it. Sadly it seems that some seems to not care that much that there are people that love glamour and mounts and that its one of the reasons to play. (One could also argue that glamour weapons without stats are not gameplay. The gameplay would be the fight itself which you still could do)

I dont see the cash shop as a massive blight. I have bought stuff from it before but stopped after some of the things SE did. The only recent items were gifts . But I do see the cash shop as one of the problems of FF14 and something which leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. Will it make me unsub? Probably not. But it surely does not create any positive emotions for SE and seeing how they are doing FF15 I am a bit skeptic how far they will go.

I am also fine if you buy stuff from it and I dont hate or dislike anyone that uses it or continue to use it because I can understand that you just want something for it. But I will also not sit silently and just watch.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Its not about being antagonizing, its about putting the issues that people have with the cash shop, its prices and things like that in a sub MMO down. You can be someone with a huge income and yet still find it bad. (I dont have a huge income but I am far from poor and could buy things from there but I dont anymore for different reasons)

Also I did get down on the prices and went with 50$ on my last post. Again this is more about the: Where will you draw the line? But if they draw your line then cant someone else come and point out that this is simply the price that SE believed it would be right and anyone that cant pay that just needs to earn more thus any concern of you would be nothing?

The thread was also not about price increase. The OP even states that the prices recently have been the same but that they still find it bad because if they want the complete package they need to pay over 50$. Also we simply dont know if this fine for most of the public. First we dont even know how many people are buying them and how many of those that are buying them to that because they really want it but at the same time still feel bad. And how big is the chance that if SE suddenly decided to drop the prices to 50% people would dislike it? (I would dare to say that quite a few items sold on sale) Because its just surprising to see people argue against decreasing them.

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I'm not rich either and hold nothing against those who are or aren't. I will however voice my opinion of those who whine about prices and claim "evil empire" just because a company is trying to bring in some extra dollars. The fact you're paying a sub has absolutely nothing to do with the entirely optional services and items they are offering.

You draw the line when the prices are too high for you. However when it hits that line you just stop buying stuff. This is why I don't have any of the statues. They're too expensive for me. I want them sure, but that's far more than I'd be willing to spend on a statue of a fictional being that'd just sit on my desk. I might buy them if they were 50 bucks, but I don't sit there and complain because it's not what I value them at. I don't understand the crusade to demand lower prices, especially if there are plenty of people willing to pay. Why would they lower the price if the product is selling? I don't need to earn more, I need to understand that if I'm not that interested in buying it, I don't need to buy it.

"I want the complete package but its too much altogether" .. In my head they're complaining because they're releasing too many items at once, which is kind of the opposite of a problem for the consumers. People who frequent the cash shop want more things. The fact that they release a lot at the same time doesn't mean you need to buy them all or that they expect you to, just that they have a clump of items they're releasing at the same time. We know it must be acceptable enough that it's selling decently or the prices would be adjusted or sales would be happening sooner. You don't curtail your cashflow as long as it's happening at an acceptable pace. We'll of course never know WHY people are buying things or not buying things , but you can be assured that they ARE selling at the given prices. Why would SE ever drop the prices %50 permanently when they can drop sales every so often? Get the money from people willing to pay full price and then grab those extra dollars from the people who are actually hedging on the price. I'm not against the price actually falling, that'd benefit me as well. However I wouldn't even consider just posting "it's too expensive.. make it lower" when it's obvious it's selling.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

No one is saying you needs be fine with the cash shop. You are, after all, entitled to your opinion. That doesn't mean the cash shop is some massive blight. While you may prefer collecting things, gameplay will always hold superior value because that will remain the core concept of any game. You cannot equate Savage gear to minion. Or if you do, you'll have to accept few will agree they hold equivalent value.

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lol some would say savage mount much more important then Savage gear Specially if they ugly gear.
Show them gear: eh another raider
Show them mount: **** you lucky ***.
XD

Good times when Cash Shop items were only reskined version of in-game ones, seemed fair at that time.
How blind could we be, didn't we $ee that coming? xD

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Originally Posted by LastFireAce

lol some would say savage mount much more important then Savage gear Specially if they ugly gear.
Show them gear: eh another raider
Show them mount: **** you lucky ***.
XD

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As a non-savage raider...I hate not having those mounts as I am a collector of all things that I can get my hands on. I'm sure if I tried I could end up getting them...but just don't have the drive for it right now...maybe before 5.0 I will get the Alexander mounts...and work on getting the SB EX Primal mounts(have only done about 5 Lakshmi and that's it...with no mount drops).

Still hoping that SE will grace us with a response, maybe during Duty Commenced on the fourth or the LPP on the 11th.

Obviously the cash shop is mutually beneficial for both SE and thousands of players all over the world. Just look around the servers at how many cash shop items have been purchased. I understand those who cannot afford will feel slighted and people who are caught up on "F2P" feelings will disagree.

However, try to look at the other side of the argument. Money doesn't grow on trees for any of us. I work such long hours I barely have time to play this game. Many people do and if we want to treat ourselves with a paid item and SE wants to provide us paid items to buy, awesome. Should we shut down the Porsche factory because some people can't afford a luxury car? The entitled mindset is so silly. Anyone experienced in MMOs knows most game's cash shops will leave you feeling dead inside with all the pay to win items and buy-able currency. You all have it so good in FFXIV it's not even funny and yet still find something to complain about.

What? You don't like the life slowly being choked out of you?

I think here and now would be the most ideal place to state my feelings on the Cash Shop and my analysis.

Since its implementation, I have bought roughly $70 worth of items from the Cash Shop. This includes a wide arrange of items, from the Aymeric hairstyle you can see on my character's portrait, to equipment like the Ironworks Engineer set, to minions like the Wind-Up Yda and emotes like Megaflare and Play Dead. This also does not include limited edition items that were available from the Amazon Campaigns. It's important to note that I have used the Mog Station and am not opposed to it.

I am glad that the Mog Station provides options for newer players to gain equipment and emotes that were available from past seasonal events. Ideally, I think that these should be available from their respective events each year, but that players could choose to buy them from the Mog Station if they would prefer not to wait for each event to resurface. Unfortunately, right now the only option is the Cash Shop. Still, I am thankful that the prices for these items are cheap by comparison to the rest of the site's fees. The emotes generally go for $2 and the full sets of seasonal equipment are usually $5. Singular items like the Blackflame Lord's Yukata are $3. I would prefer if these purchases were account-wide, but even though they are not, I think these are good prices. (Except Housing items. $5 for a Christmas poster is way too spendy compared to how few people will see it, and I can't imagine they sell many of these things.) If you really want one of these items, the Shop provides a way to obtain them even if you missed out on the events.

The problems begin with regards to items that are available exclusively from purchase on the Mog Station. It's hard to pinpoint an average cost for purchased goods that belong to this category because there are so many different examples. The one constant I can think of is that minions are always $5. Beyond that, equipment can range anywhere from $3 to $18. As it began, the most expensive pieces of equipment were sets like Minfilia's Antecedent Attire, or Lightning's Guardian Corps set. These were and are still $15, and the reason for these being priced in this way is likely because the sets include the equipment as well as a special hairstyle player characters can switch to. (It's worth noting that the FFXIII costumes and hairstyles were originally given from a limited time sidequest) The other basic Scion sets are set at $8 price points.

And then the cash shop received the Far Eastern Garb sets first released in the East. The price of these is $18, which was the most expensive we had seen yet. I have heard several arguments for why these are priced so much higher despite not having any hairstyles attached. Firstly, this equipment has an Experience Point buff when worn in conjunction with other pieces of the same set. All of the other Far Eastern items function in this way, as do the Fuga and Nezha sets. Aside from the Fuga items, the sets also give various bonuses to stats like Vitality and Strength, but players wearing these items will still be at a disadvantage stat-wise compared to other items the same ilevel when it becomes necessary to party with other players in dungeons. It can be said that the main functions of these pieces of equipment are:

1. Aesthetic
2. Experience Boost
3. Low Level gear with reasonable stats (until level 10)

But I think the majority of players are honestly going to be getting these items for their looks. Still, the fact that these items were originally exclusive to China and Korea sound to be the primary reason these items are a higher price point, and the experience point bonus is something of a bonus made available as a "thanks for buying this" sort of thing. Unfortunately, at this point this is all just assumption because it's hard to get word from Square-Enix regarding these items. Clothing-wise, I think it's important to note that the most expensive items are pieces of equipment are:

A) Equipment Sets with Experience Points Boosts
B) Equipment Sets sold with an additional Hairstyle

The Megaflare emote was also recently released. At $12, it is listed as a persistent emote but does not actually have a persistent action, so I think they should relabel it into the General tab. For $5 more it's functionally no different from the Power-Up emote, just a different kind of "flashy."

I don't want to talk too much on the Far Eastern sets as a whole without input from SE, but regarding the majority of the Cash Shop at large, I think the biggest problem I have with it is that the items they offer are not account wide. With the exception of the mounts that are $24 and over, the items you buy are delegated to a single character. Consensus from Square-Enix makes it sound like this is due to server-side issues preventing them from putting too many assets towards distribution of items. This is also the reason why physical items are now only being given to single characters instead of being account-wide.

So, why is this happening? Is there anything that can be done?

I don't know how the commission behind the Far Eastern sets works. Despite making these items as limited time exclusives for the Eastern servers, they were still developed in-house by the company. The artists who sculpted the items themselves need to be paid as well, but wouldn't they just receive a regular monthly salary from Square-Enix? Specifically, I doubt they're receiving $1 for each Doman Barding sold. The vast majority of the Cash Shop is going straight to Square-Enix, where they are free to choose how the funds are used. This is going to be used towards a wide variety of things, from FFXIV as a whole, to the employees, to other games. But I think that we, as players of FFXIV, would definitely like to see these funds re-allocated back into FFXIV in some shape. And I think that the best way would be to fund ways to make the servers more stable so that more items can be given account-wide without the company having to stress over limitations.

Call it 1.0 spaghetti code, call it being frugal, call it whatever. But the game itself really needs Square-Enix to address the growing situation with the servers and their account-wide item issues. I would like them to address this and the playerbase as soon as they can to try and alleviate some of our strain. Just a little more feedback from them would be much appreciated. I think a lot of people would be much more understanding of the prices if the company could be less reticent and explain what they're actually doing with the money. Are they required to do so? No, not at all, but it would absolutely be seen as a gesture of appreciation, which is something the western playerbase needs. The announcement of the iOS/Android Application has lots of people asking, "just what are you using our money for, if not to help the game?" If they can't do anything to help the servers with its account-wide issues, that's something we should still be made aware of.

Man I wish I could post more than 1000 characters... had a great post written. Oh well.

The cash shop doesn't bother me for the following reasons:

1.) The items that hit it seem fewer and farther between than most other MMO's i've played.
2.) A recognition that $15.00 a month really isn't a lot of money.
3.) The fact that the lion's share/grand majority of everything that they make gets put into the game and not the cash shop.

Put all that together, and considering i'm getting hundreds of hours of entertainment for that subscription fee, dishing out another 10-20 bucks every so often doesn't really hurt that much.

And for those that are saying that it very well might get worse: Slippery Slope is a logical fallacy for a reason.

So here's the thing about the Chinese/Korean outfits.

The most recent one, is 25300 crysta. Converting that to Won to USD is 23.48 dollars. If its a direct conversion of Won to Crysta (like it is in USD) then we actually get the outfits cheaper than they do, by almost 6 USD.

The other items in the cash shop have never had the prices increased to match that of the Korean and Chinese outfits. They are all priced in the same tiers they have always been. The Lyse outfit wasn't suddenly $18 because the Korean ones are selling for $18.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

I know thats why I would equally argue in threads if they would ever decide to sell such. It would not matter to me because I dont care for savage but I also know that other people care for it. Sadly it seems that some seems to not care that much that there are people that love glamour and mounts and that its one of the reasons to play. (One could also argue that glamour weapons without stats are not gameplay. The gameplay would be the fight itself which you still could do)

I dont see the cash shop as a massive blight. I have bought stuff from it before but stopped after some of the things SE did. The only recent items were gifts . But I do see the cash shop as one of the problems of FF14 and something which leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. Will it make me unsub? Probably not. But it surely does not create any positive emotions for SE and seeing how they are doing FF15 I am a bit skeptic how far they will go.

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Because you are comparing things which are not of equal value. Unless cosmetics are the gameplay itself (ala The Sims), progression content will always be the driving force behind what keeps a game alive. A handful of mounts or minions being put on the Cash Shop won't impact much as they are essentially a different aesthetic. Take out Sigmascape and suddenly FFXIV has little to offer. Look no further than 3.1. The game suffered a significant population dip because Gordias was far over-tuned and there was little else to do. It's less people not caring and more the majority focus on the gameplay in a game like FFXIV. Those who do care about the aesthetics are also split between willing to spent a little on cash shop stuff and those who refuse.

I, personally, fall into both camps. The gameplay keeps me playing, but I chase aesthetics I fancy even if they pop on the cash shop. A splurge every once in a while just doesn't mean much to me.

I would be fine with all the prices if all items were account wide (excluding consumables).

I play 8 different characters and leveling my alts would be a lot more fun if I could play around with the outfits I purchased in the cash shop.

Question about fates like this where you have to sync, if you are a tank and you sync and unsync with to avoid massive damage, do you still get full credit on the kill if your group was killing the mob synced the whole time?

Same with a healer, if you are a healer unsynced and sync back right before the kill, do you get credit if your group was killing the mob synced the whole time??

I still think cash shop items should be account wide.

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Originally Posted by TheGrimace

I think here and now would be the most ideal place to state my feelings on the Cash Shop and my analysis.

Since its implementation, I have bought roughly $70 worth of items from the Cash Shop.

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I am an old school MMO guy, I don't play F2P games, I like XIV1.2x/XI more than XIV ARR.

I just check it & found that I've spent $450 on mog station stuff, in one and a half year, wow, nice try, SE, it works!

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Originally Posted by ZJyn

Man I wish I could post more than 1000 characters... had a great post written. Oh well.

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Edit your post. There's no limit when editing.

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And for those that are saying that it very well might get worse: Slippery Slope is a logical fallacy for a reason.

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Don't need to say it "might" get worse. Observation and the phone app's subscription model have made that pretty clear.

For the cash shop in general....

If you can afford it and like it - go for it
If you cant afford it and like it - wait for a sale
If you hate it - don't buy it
If you are obsessed with comparing this to F2P - don't buy it
If you are obsessed thinking this is P2W - don't buy it

But don't bring down others just because they want an item or even bought said item. This is just getting ridiculous. While I agree pricing is getting too high, I also know when I will draw my limit on pricing. Once it goes above it, I will simply stop buying. It's a simple concept.

Until then I will keep buying things I like, and gifting some to friends who may be more cash strapped. This game still has it so good when compared to other games. Though I do still wish they would do the WoW Token system.