SAMURAI SHOWDOWN

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Originally Posted by Jhett_Magnum

I'm confused are you talking about Samurai being DPS and Tank roles like roles SMN SCH? (Which will never happen btw)

Or A tank with a better DPS stance?

Also someone should make a straw poll for this.

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Well, actually, what I really want is to literally have two separate jobs that could start at 30, much like DRK/MCH/AST.

One way I'd like for them to be distinguishable is to have the Tank use heavy armor and wield two swords, like this:
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/InmKL_Z5mAE/maxresdefault.jpg

And to have the DPS wield their katana with both hands and have much lighter armor, looking like this:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...311e40117e.jpg

Unlike other jobs, I think samurai not only has the community support to want something like this, but that the class lends itself to having a ton of ability names and ideas to draw from to make both of these jobs unique.

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Originally Posted by Krissey

He means two completely separate jobs not even called Samurai (Shogun and Ronin) where one is a Tank and one is a DPS probably branching from a similar base class or even two completely different classes becoming two completely separate roles.

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Hmm no can't say I agree, we should stick to one role for each job and regardless wether it's a tank or DPS just something we gotta live with.

I will say though yoshi p did mention hybrid job role (support/debuffer) and what better time to implement it than 4.0. Think about it..RDM and SAM have arguebly ambiguous roles so why not let those jobs be firsts? But that's getting off topic I think.

I actually really miss "passive" evasion tanking. The reason being: Once tanks get "active" mitigation they all basically get the same buttons...I prefer tanks to have a unique identity which may include just stacking as much dodge, parry and block as possible to reduce over-all incoming damage. Then of course cooldowns and abilities to supplement this identity. Samurai may be a good fit for this.

However overall I still thing the common media portrayal is that of a damage dealer rather than damage soaker or taker.

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Originally Posted by Krissey

The only way I would want to see Samurai being a tank is if they followed some alternate form of mitigation such as a heavy emphasis on dodging, parrying, blocking, etc... rather than straight up taking damage. Whether active, passive or a mix in-between. But more of the same is just boring.

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Samurai does have enough abilities in it's skill set from previous games to become a tank. However, Samurai is a high mobility job. Some abilities include increasing evasion, and countering abilities.
It can easily be argued to have Samurai be an Off Tank, simply because it has possible counter potential similar to DRK Reprisal. There is always several new abilities that can be added to a SAM, just like what they did to DRK by adding Grit.
Many people thought DRK should be a DPS until Grit was added to the job.

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Originally Posted by Jhett_Magnum

Hmm no can't say I agree, we should stick to one role for each job and regardless wether it's a tank or DPS just something we gotta live with.

I will say though yoshi p did mention hybrid job role (support/debuffer) and what better time to implement it than 4.0. Think about it..RDM and SAM have arguebly ambiguous roles so why not let those jobs be firsts? But that's getting off topic I think.

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Well, I wouldn't oppose this lol. Honestly, it's a better idea, but I just feel like it's more to ask.

I actually do envision it would be perfect for RDM, because you could have a "swordmage" type of class that branches off into RDM and BLU. RDM being the healer branch, and BLU being the dps.

I loved Druid tanks in World of Wacraft and also Death Knights which chose to stack heavy mitigation stats over just "HP" because they didn't have the defensive stats of the paladin and warriors which had shields. There-fore it was fun going several attacks in a row never taking a true hit of damage because it was dodged or parried or even blocked. I found that fun and disliked when they, and consequently this game, has gone to homogenized "active" mitigation. Everyone has their -20% incoming damage for x duration, -30% incoming damage for x duration, +to Healing Received...+% Increase to Block damage...yawn. They all play roughly the same.

I think a tank that focuses on taking as few hits as possible rather than just reducing the damage but still taking every hit is way more interesting and fun. Fancy foot-work, dodging, countering and parrying are all more fun to me than pressing whatever -20% incoming damage ability. In this way Samurai would actually make sense as a tank to me. I just don't see them as takers of massive, heavy punishment. So either an evasion tank or a DPS.

In previous games, SAM had a abilities such as Curtain - landing a blow will generate a barrier.

In FFXIV - Curtain would just be another ability that mitigates damage as a tank.
However, skills of a SAM, depending on how much mobility you had stacked up, could allow for a very strong attack.

Mobility can only be translated to Skill Speed, or oGCD procs in FFXIV.
SAM could honestly work similar to how WAR works if they decide to go the tanking route.
Giving SAM stacks of whatever stat they choose to work with (Crit maybe?) up to a certain number. Giving SAM an evasion mitigation ability to possibly Perfect Dodge a tank buster with full stacks?

This would make more sense in a DPS perspective though, as Evasion is a passive form of mitigation and only stacks with physical character level.
Giving SAM too many abilities to increase evasion to HOPEFULLY dodge a tank buster is gimmicky and does not work similar to other mitigation. You either dodge the entire thing, or take the full hit?
Evasion is a worse form of mitigation compared to Parry at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Aaliyahrose

Evasion is a worse form of mitigation compared to Parry at the moment.

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I think they should honestly rework parry completely. Shield blocks and Parries should result in 100% mitigation. In my opinion, they should make it as such and then work on balancing from there. I seriously don't see what the calamity is if a tank takes 0 damage from a tank buster anyways. If they balance the tanks around being equal, it shouldn't be a problem and they can still balance fights around the assumption that it won't happen. It's really just tossing the healers a bone. lol

If they were to rework parry, They would either...

A. Have to rework the Parry formula.
B. Make SAM the Absolute best Parry tank - better far and away better than DRK
C. Give SAM an abitily to proc more parries than a DRK can

If B were the option... you would see something like 100+ Parry on your Katana...

It cant be on your gear...because tanks would end up sharing the same gear...
and that is not reworking the parry formula lol.

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Originally Posted by Tanathya

You guys can't think outside the box is all I'm getting out of all of this. Not everyone, and especially those who say heavier armor = tanks only, and tanks = heavy armor only. Can I (we) have some much, much needed variety, please?

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Thinking outside the box is all well and dandy, but the problem is you can come along with all kinds of wildish and creative ideas but this is a business, with things like finances and development time that needs to be considered. Variety is good, but it also comes with far more work and a balancing nightmare. SE has been adamant that they want everything to be balanced, to the point a lot of jobs are very similar to each other, so that no one job is left out of content. You start trying crazy things and you quickly run into situations where some things are far better than others. So you can say it's a lack of creativity, but at the same time, it's addressing the situation with a realistic viewpoint on the necessary drawbacks which come with left field ideas.

In this game, tanks = heavy armor. If they want to add more tanks while also preventing a much larger work load for their staff then tanks will continue to wear heavy fending armor. So following that logic you look at which requested FF jobs also have a history of wearing heavy armor and then your list gets pretty small considering most of them are some variant of knight. Samurai happens to be one with a history of heavy armor as well as defending/protecting others while still offering a unique flair to it, and thus it's a pretty logical choice given what few options you have.

So again, in a perfect world, every class would be wildly crazy and different, and it's fun to come up with those kinds of ideas, but if you're going to look at things seriously and take in the actual factors, it becomes a lot more cut and dry.

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Originally Posted by Ciri_Wolf

Edit: Also, everyone seems to conveniently forget the series has already had a clothed Samurai without armor. Auron.

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You're right, Auron wore robes mostly, but his "katana" was also a greatsword as well. But even then, let's take a look at Auron.

He was the guardian of summoner Braska, and caretaker of Tidus later. Auron's specialty are the break abilities that lower enemies' stats, and guard abilities to shield his comrades from enemy attacks. His early stat growth is based around high Strength, Defense and HP.

Hmmm....Defends/shields others, has high STR, VIT, and Defense...what role of the trinity has emphasis on those traits I wonder? So he may be lightly armored in appearance, but in practice he's definitely in line with being a tank. The same goes for Bravely Default's Swordmaster.

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Originally Posted by DWolfwood

Well, actually, what I really want is to literally have two separate jobs that could start at 30, much like DRK/MCH/AST.

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That would make Samurai a special snowflake and basically give the same motif two different playstyles while other Jobs only get one Job instead of having an alternative. And give reason for Dark Knights to rise up and complain why they had to suffer while Samurai gets the best of both worlds.

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Originally Posted by Ciri_Wolf

Especially since, you know, we have Dragoons wearing full plate in the game already. And some of the ninja armors are actually armors.

Edit: Also, everyone seems to conveniently forget the series has already had a clothed Samurai without armor. Auron.

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Auron wore armor, just a form fitted breastplate.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/pvCh5UIqnO8/maxresdefault.jpg

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

That would make Samurai a special snowflake and basically give the same motif two different playstyles while other Jobs only get one Job instead of having an alternative. And give reason for Dark Knights to rise up and complain why they had to suffer while Samurai gets the best of both worlds.

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There's still room for a DRK DPS, but when they released it as a tank, the community that wanted it as a DPS got real quiet. They could still make one with a different name and give them scythes though with a heavier focus on magic if enough people asked for it, but I don't really see many asking for it.

People been watching too much anime if they think all samurai wear light clothes.

Samurai were part of a ruling class of nobility, not unlike Knights. Those that had no armor or were poor were not Samurai they were Ashigaru.
Warrior peasants who were conscripted to bolster a Samurai's army. The idea of the traveling Ronin or master less Samurai was more akin to the Dark Knight who served no one and only fought if and when they wanted to. The wearing of a Daishō or paired sword's, was a symbol of rank and status for the Samurai. As they Samurai often practiced the way of Bushido their valuers were simple, straight forward and unyielding.

(Source: Wikipedia- Samurai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samurai#Philosophy)

In 1412 AD, Imagawa Sadayo wrote a letter of admonishment to his brother stressing the importance of duty to one's master. Imagawa was admired for his balance of military and administrative skills during his lifetime and his writings became widespread. The letters became central to Tokugawa-era laws and were a required study for traditional Japanese until World War II:[citation needed]
"First of all, a samurai who dislikes battle and has not put his heart in the right place even though he has been born in the house of the warrior, should not be reckoned among one's retainers....It is forbidden to forget the great debt of kindness one owes to his master and ancestors and thereby make light of the virtues of loyalty and filial piety....It is forbidden that one should...attach little importance to his duties to his master...There is a primary need to distinguish loyalty from disloyalty and to establish rewards and punishments."[13]
Similarly, the feudal lord Takeda Nobushige (1525–1561 AD) stated: "In matters both great and small, one should not turn his back on his master's commands...One should not ask for gifts or enfiefments from the master...No matter how unreasonably the master may treat a man, he should not feel disgruntled...An underling does not pass judgments on a superior"[14]
Nobushige's brother Takeda Shingen (1521–1573 AD) also made similar observations: "One who was born in the house of a warrior, regardless of his rank or class, first acquaints himself with a man of military feats and achievements in loyalty....Everyone knows that if a man doesn't hold filial piety toward his own parents he would also neglect his duties toward his lord. Such a neglect means a disloyalty toward humanity. Therefore such a man doesn't deserve to be called 'samurai'."[15]
The feudal lord Asakura Yoshikage (1428–1481 AD) wrote: "In the fief of the Asakura, one should not determine hereditary chief retainers. A man should be assigned according to his ability and loyalty." Asakura also observed that the successes of his father were obtained by the kind treatment of the warriors and common people living in domain. By his civility, "all were willing to sacrifice their lives for him and become his allies."[16]
Katō Kiyomasa was one of the most powerful and well-known lords of the Sengoku Era. He commanded most of Japan's major clans during the invasion of Korea (1592–1598). In a handbook he addressed to "all samurai, regardless of rank" he told his followers that a warrior's only duty in life was to "...grasp the long and the short swords and to die". He also ordered his followers to put forth great effort in studying the military classics, especially those related to loyalty and filial piety. He is best known for his quote:[17] "If a man does not investigate into the matter of Bushido daily, it will be difficult for him to die a brave and manly death. Thus it is essential to engrave this business of the warrior into one's mind well."
Nabeshima Naoshige (1538–1618 AD) was another Sengoku Daimyo who fought alongside Kato Kiyomasa in Korea. He stated that it was shameful for any man to have not risked his life at least once in the line of duty, regardless of his rank. Nabeshima's sayings would be passed down to his son and grandson and would become the basis for Tsunetomo Yamamoto's Hagakure. He is best known for his saying "The way of the Samurai is in desperateness. Ten men or more cannot kill such a man."[18][19]

I simply do not understand how people can so love a subject, but be so willfully ignorant it's origin, purpose, identity. If you truly care then you want it to be as close to the real thing as possible right?

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Originally Posted by DWolfwood

There's still room for a DRK DPS, but when they released it as a tank, the community that wanted it as a DPS got real quiet. They could still make one with a different name and give them scythes though with a heavier focus on magic if enough people asked for it, but I don't really see many asking for it.

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They could possibly do a Executioner class in a way and give them a Scythe, allow their skills to use or feed off HP. Makes sense that a DPS would have the spare HP when a tank does not. Perhaps even a skill to temporarily cut the HP loss or allow partial regain similar to Wildfire and HP loss = % returned at the end.

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Originally Posted by FinalWolf

People been watching too much anime if they think all samurai wear light clothes.

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Have you not read any of the thread? Many people have posted about real samurai who wore light armor while some wore heavy.

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Originally Posted by DWolfwood

There's still room for a DRK DPS, but when they released it as a tank, the community that wanted it as a DPS got real quiet. They could still make one with a different name and give them scythes though with a heavier focus on magic if enough people asked for it, but I don't really see many asking for it.

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The whole thing with the Armory System and how Botanists have Scythes already as an offhand kinda kills that for people. Plus in the long run the Dark Knights who do want it done traditionally and actually speak out are in the minority. And when DRK was announced and cemented as a tank class most just gave up the notion DRK or anything similar to what a DRK was would ever get in as a DPS. Right now it's just fodder to test out Parry mechanics for Samurai and was an attempt to get more players in the userbase to play a tank class. Which worked...for like 2 weeks.

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Originally Posted by AlphaFox

They could possibly do a Executioner class in a way and give them a Scythe, allow their skills to use or feed off HP. Makes sense that a DPS would have the spare HP when a tank does not. Perhaps even a skill to temporarily cut the HP loss or allow partial regain similar to Wildfire and HP loss = % returned at the end.



Have you not read any of the thread? Many people have posted about real samurai who wore light armor while some wore heavy.

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I saw images of samurai in a school uniform

Yes, screw the armors.

http://i.imgur.com/3Jts8nJ.png

Meh all the armor.

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/...20150206183738

After dying in the nioh demo, we definitely need samurai in this game.

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Originally Posted by DWolfwood

There's still room for a DRK DPS, but when they released it as a tank, the community that wanted it as a DPS got real quiet.

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Says you. You must've missed the huge amount of complaints when it was announced as a tank. Of course, those who think that death knights are the equivalent of dark knights were happy.

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Originally Posted by Tanathya

Says you. You must've missed the huge amount of complaints when it was announced as a tank. Of course, those who think that death knights are the equivalent of dark knights were happy.

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Keyword there: released.

People stopped caring once it was released. You get people occasionally who still resent the fact that it came out as tank, but you don't see them asking for another new job.

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Originally Posted by Tanathya

Says you. You must've missed the huge amount of complaints when it was announced as a tank. Of course, those who think that death knights are the equivalent of dark knights were happy.

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Just gotta say... how does that make sense, especially in the context of tank vs. dps? You're referencing a class for which, at release, every spec could be either role, rotates nothing like a Dark Knight, and shares only a few themes with the latter job ("Abyssal" -> Shadow, delay of death / (temporary) undeath, and a something slightly to do with souls).

I wish I could say the same for DRK, that its toolkit wasn't explicitly built to be a tank but rather tanking was something it could simply do fairly well, if only for the hybrid possibilities that might bring in the future. But, for better or worse, they're hardly alike.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

You're right, Auron wore robes mostly, but his "katana" was also a greatsword as well. But even then, let's take a look at Auron.

He was the guardian of summoner Braska, and caretaker of Tidus later. Auron's specialty are the break abilities that lower enemies' stats, and guard abilities to shield his comrades from enemy attacks. His early stat growth is based around high Strength, Defense and HP.

Hmmm....Defends/shields others, has high STR, VIT, and Defense...what role of the trinity has emphasis on those traits I wonder? So he may be lightly armored in appearance, but in practice he's definitely in line with being a tank. The same goes for Bravely Default's Swordmaster.

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But none of that matters with how he looks. Which was my only point.

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Originally Posted by DWolfwood

Keyword there: released.

People stopped caring once it was released. You get people occasionally who still resent the fact that it came out as tank, but you don't see them asking for another new job.

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Part of me doesn't even want another new job period. As they would just fuck it up like they fucked up Summoner, Dark Knight and what have you. As it stands IMO the two best Jobs in the game from a grand perspective is Monk and Warrior thanks to their dynamic design. Mainly the only reason I'm eager to see SAM/RDM is to see how poorly designed it will be before moving back to being the no skill NIN/BLM I am.

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Originally Posted by DWolfwood

Keyword there: released.

People stopped caring once it was released. You get people occasionally who still resent the fact that it came out as tank, but you don't see them asking for another new job.

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Same thing, you must've missed the incredibly long discussions about it up until not too long ago, and that fire's still breathing, as you can very well see. Honestly, you're just nitpicking without zooming out to care about the bigger picture here.

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Originally Posted by Ciri_Wolf

But none of that matters with how he looks. Which was my only point.

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Right, he doesn't look like a samurai, almost at all. In fact, he's not even referred to as a samurai in game in any way (he is referred to only as a warrior monk) which brings up the point that in pretty much every Final Fantasy game that features samurai has them in their iconic armor (Outside of Cyan who's armor looks like a mix) , and the games that have a ronin-esque samurai the job/class is decidedly NOT called samurai.

Final Fantasy V:
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/...20120718054230

Final Fantasy VI:
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/...20120724213641

Final Fantasy X-2: Samurai Dressphere, based on Auron but actually called Samurai with much more armor than Auron wore.
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/...20061221035805

Final Fantasy XI:
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/...20091114191645

Final Fantasy Tactics:
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/...20111202172813

Final Fantasy Explorers:
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/...20160218065410

Final Fantasy Airborne Brigade:
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/...20141022065627

Final Fantasy All the Bravest:
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/...20130118111523

Pictologica Final Fantasy:
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/...20141104031820



So yeah, then your non-armored variety include Tactics A2's Parivir, Bravely Default's Swordmaster, and FF12's Mononofu. Specifically not called Samurai. Hmmm...

And still, none of you guys can't think of an armor using job that can't be a tank. And what's as bad as that, can't think of a job who could tank without heavy armor. Then we cry out loud for variety. And this is the community in a nutshell.

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Originally Posted by Tanathya

And still, none of you guys can't think of an armor using job that can't be a tank. And what's as bad as that, can't think of a job who could tank without heavy armor. Then we cry out loud for variety. And this is the community in a nutshell.

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You just love ignoring the reality of the situation, don't you? Plenty of people have thought up plenty of "armor using job that can't be tanks." It's stupid easy to do, anyone with any kind of imagination can come up with limitless ideas to fit that role. If you take traditionally heavy armor wielding jobs, and make them dps jobs, then you've just made your pool of easy to implement tank jobs even smaller. You want to make tanks who share gear with light armor/no armored jobs? Then welcome to a lot more time and money to make that work and balance, not to mention now you have different roles competing for the same gear which is in general a bad idea. You also then have a tank who cannot be geared simultaneously with the other 3 tanks which eliminates a perk that is used to entice tank (and healers) to play their very important roles because they have an easier time gearing their role across multiple jobs of the same role which allows for tanks and healers to have flexibility.

A tank player can gear all 3 tanks at the same time, this gives them the freedom to play whichever tank job they feel like at any given time. Same goes for healers. If you don't think that wasn't specifically decided to be that way for a reason then you're ignoring the benefits of that system. If you start throwing in tanks and healers that don't fit that mold you eliminate that benefit on top of a bunch of other new problems.

So once again, variety is something that would be nice, but realistically if we want more jobs then simplicity is going to be the likely policy especially since the devs already put out a staggering amount of content on a regular basis. They simply do not have time nor the resources to do wild and crazy things.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

Snip

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Alright, yet you're proving my point. As you did in some other thread before this. Let me cast a Fire on your reality from FFXIV, the same way you could cast a shield on your non-armored clothes.

Jesus, everything you said is so... weird, to say the least.

I'll pick this for the sake of laughing out loud

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

A tank player can gear all 3 tanks at the same time, this gives them the freedom to play whichever tank job they feel like at any given time.

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Enough said. Please, continue walking down Reality Lane.

No Tank Samurai. Kill it with fire.

DPS Samurai please.

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Originally Posted by Tanathya

And still, none of you guys can't think of an armor using job that can't be a tank. And what's as bad as that, can't think of a job who could tank without heavy armor. Then we cry out loud for variety. And this is the community in a nutshell.

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Variety may be a good thing, however some sense of cohesiveness allows certain base guidelines that not only help shape perceptions but also detail aspects, and define goals. The idea that armor is designed to protect maybe a tired trope to some, I feel it is a standard of both history and fantasy, a way for all who see the representation to say" That person has armor, he/ she is the protector / defensive fighter of the group."

Even in fantasy where we ask of ourselves to suspend our sense of reality to entertain the idea of dragons and magic, the common idea of the stealthy Rogue/ Assassin/ Ninja moving through shadows for their perfect strike is not often paired with the idea of being heavily armored at the same time.

It's one thing to cry out for variety, to do so with such a staple of not only Established FF lore, but also with one of the most iconic warriors in all of history flies directly against any call for uniqueness. You may as well be calling for a mage that doesn't cast spells and fights in melee range, while wearing heavy armor.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

Except he hasnt? We've already gone over every time he's talked about it's role and every time he's mentioned it potentially being a dps he's also talked about it potentially being a tank too. So your statement is just factually incorrect.

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he's obviously playing cryptic as not to reveal anything. he did say when he's thinking SAM, he feels it would be more natural to have it as DPS. But sure, they could decide whatever. I think he and most players are in favor of it being DPS.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Every class can deal damage. So what's your point? As stated Yoshi hasn't decided if he wants SAM to be DPS or Tank yet.

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FSH can also deal damage, what's your point? obviously FSH, tanks and healers dont count as DPS. He knows what he wants it to be, but that's not the same as deciding what would be the "best choice"
they were considering SAM as tank, before DRK, but picked DRK instead, i highly doubt they will add SAM as another tank, or they would have just added that instead of DRK.
but we'll see. it would be surprising if it is tank, and honestly disappointing.

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Originally Posted by Tanathya

You guys can't think outside the box is all I'm getting out of all of this. Not everyone, and especially those who say heavier armor = tanks only, and tanks = heavy armor only. Can I (we) have some much, much needed variety, please?

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that concept is alien to most people.

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Originally Posted by Jhett_Magnum

I.e.
Shooting Star has a base potency of 290 has a 3 stage charge increasing potency by 200 for each stage.

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so basically a combo like any other melee...

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Originally Posted by Aaliyahrose

Samurai does have enough abilities in it's skill set from previous games to become a tank. However, Samurai is a high mobility job. Some abilities include increasing evasion, and countering abilities.
It can easily be argued to have Samurai be an Off Tank, simply because it has possible counter potential similar to DRK Reprisal. There is always several new abilities that can be added to a SAM, just like what they did to DRK by adding Grit.
Many people thought DRK should be a DPS until Grit was added to the job.

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you're basing this off of XI i guess? where nin ended up as a tank?
off-tank....every tank can be MT, there's no OT role - either it's tank or it isn't. and it's silly to say that SAM would be a valid tank because counter, just cause DRK has reprisal - and you can't counter something if you're not getting hit (MT) so what would be the point of reprisal for an OT?
Ofc they can make SAM into tank, without even factoring in skills from earlier games - earlier games are totally irrelevant to what they do with SAM in XIV. They could have made DRG into tank, and have Jump as a 10sec invulnerability skill, if they wanted.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

The whole thing with the Armory System and how Botanists have Scythes already as an offhand kinda kills that for people. .

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like btn killed war?

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Originally Posted by DWolfwood

People stopped caring once it was released. You get people occasionally who still resent the fact that it came out as tank, but you don't see them asking for another new job.

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no they didn't, it's just pointless to ask them to change it, once the content is released. everyone who resented it before, still do - well some got over it i guess.

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Originally Posted by Alacran

It's one thing to cry out for variety, to do so with such a staple of not only Established FF lore, but also with one of the most iconic warriors in all of history flies directly against any call for uniqueness. You may as well be calling for a mage that doesn't cast spells and fights in melee range, while wearing heavy armor.

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They blatantly shat on the FF lore way more than once. In fact, they did so to turn a job that uses armor (not unlike dragoon, actually) into a tank.

Botanist uses one handed axes. WAR uses Greataxes.

Your move.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Botanist uses one handed axes. WAR uses Greataxes.

Your move.

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so then we can get a 2h scythe job, without infringing on the almighty botanist 1h scythe.
Edit: or well tool, i guess it's 2h.
but there's big diff between botanical scythe and combat/war scythe. like there's a difference between PLD weps and NIN weps, even though many of them are same size.
oh and you know how both SMN and SCH uses books without competition.
and by that logic we can't add any 2h bludgeon job, cause of miner off-hand, either.

Their scythes actually use both hands. Despite being offhand. Same thing with a miner's hammer.

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Originally Posted by Tanathya

Jesus, everything you said is so... weird, to say the least.

I'll pick this for the sake of laughing out loud



Enough said. Please, continue walking down Reality Lane.

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Let me try and make this as simple as possible for you then, since you seem to not be able to comprehend it.

Tanking and healing are crucial roles in games that use the Trinity. They are far more important roles than DPS when it comes to tackling content. They are also less desirable roles to play and as such often have lower populations. This means that systems in place that benefit these roles help keep players participating in those roles.

Tanks and healers share their gear. While this means they individually lose the option of variety in terms of types of gear they have available to them, it also means they have the flexibility (aka freedom) to play multiple varieties of their role whenever they'd like. A group already has a paladin? Can go in as warrior or dark knight.

*It gives them options within their role without the downside of having to obtain and carry around a bunch of different sets of gear. Dps do not have this option (barring mages). If a group has a DRG and doesn't want 2 and all you have geared is DRG then you're screwed. Now, that doesn't mean that changing that for dps wouldn't be welcome. Having more shared gear offers more flexibility in in playing multiple jobs in the same role.

So yes, tanks sharing gear (and continuing to share that gear in the future) offers a real benefit that helps keep these vital roles having a healthy population. It also has the wonderful benefit of easing development which saves time and money.

But hey, that's just looking at the bigger picture.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Their scythes actually use both hands. Despite being offhand. Same thing with a miner's hammer.

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ya, see my edit there.
anyway, if they did that, it would just end up severely limiting how many jobs they can add, cause of DoH/L, which is just silly.