Explain "off-healer" to me outside of savage enviroment. Because if I notice that my CO-HEALER is giving priority to DPS while I struggle to keep up with the damage, shots will be fired.Quote:
Originally Posted by MidnightTundra
But...I...I don't wanna DPS, I'm a healer...
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10-20-2015, 08:59 AMFevelle
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10-20-2015, 09:14 AMLyrica_AshtineWhy would you think "off-healer" has a different concept outside savage content in the first place?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fevelle
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10-20-2015, 09:15 AM416to305Trials, Main Story Dungeons, 24 man raids? Even A1 normal at Faust usually one person handles healing and the other just does DPS to get it down since at least until 30% or so give or take, no one really takes big damage other than the main tank. On anything level 50 like WoD, Trials etc there's plenty of downtime where if I see the other healer is doing a lot of DPS then I pay extra attention to healing and vice versa. If you are struggling to keep up with healing then it's an issue, but in most 8 person trials usually there's plenty of time to solo heal while the other person goes DPS crazy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fevelle
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10-20-2015, 09:23 AMSaitoHikari
Um... Hi guys. I'm actually somewhat new to the game, only started playing about 2 months ago. I had a much more eloquent post prepared but apparently the forum logged me out while I was typing it up and there was no option to restore it.
Reading through this thread is making me re-evaluate how I play. I main White Mage, and I duty finder'd almost everything. I just feel as if I do whatever I can. It's just that, I never really noticed many windows where I could safely DPS without fear of the tank suddenly dying in most of my parties. I do switch to DPS sometimes, but I don't really do it like 70% of the time (I only feel it's safe to DPS in EX roulette dungeons in the majority of situations after mobs numbers are reduced to 4 or below during a very big pull), because I kinda panic when I see the tank losing like 40% of their HP over a very sustained period of time.
(This forum has a 1000 character limit too? Forgive me, because I'm about to make like 4 more posts at this rate.) -
10-20-2015, 09:25 AMSaitoHikari
My usual start of fight rotation is Divine Seal -> Regen after tank takes aggro -> Medica II -> Asylum -> Cleric Stance -> Holy -> all three Aero's -> Holy and then see what happens from there (usually swapping back to heal mode because the tank suddenly lost half their HP from something). What I want to know is, is that even recommended, and when should I really use Eye for an Eye during most fights?
Also, I'm the sort of person that tries to think about how I could have handled certain situations regardless of party setup/whatever the party may be doing. I had two particular things happen over the past two days that I need advice on. -
10-20-2015, 09:27 AMFevelleThat's just the normal healing etiquette for me. You watch the fight enviroment and go into offense or support depending on what's happening. Both healers have to work together, I don't know how a title like "off-healer" can exist since the responsabilities of both healers are the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by 416to305
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10-20-2015, 09:27 AMSaitoHikari
The first was that I was in a Trial Roulette and got Titan HM about two nights ago. Other healer was Astrologian, and I mention this only because I don't really know what their healing capabilities are like. At some point after the second set of outer rings collapsed, the tanks lost aggro and couldn't regain it before Titan knocked me out. I was revived, but because of that, I would spend the rest of the fight with low MP, even with casting Shroud of Saints immediately. Tanks were getting wrecked. Party members were telling me to esuna those freely broken out of Gaol, and everyone was getting hit by AoEs. I decided to go with the AoE healing route. It didn't work out very well, judging from the amount of deaths in the party. We still cleared that attempt, but I still feel really bad about it.
In that situation, what should I have done, with my limited MP?
-> Heal tanks only
-> AoE healing anyway
-> Immediately revive anyone that dies
-> Esuna away the Determination Down debuff -
10-20-2015, 09:30 AMSaitoHikari
The second scenario involved EX roulette yesterday in Neverreap. Warrior tank with two Bards as DPS. The tank tried to do that massive pull before the first boss. Divine Seal heals over time wore off with only one enemy dying, and the tank was taking so much damage even with the heals over time on him that I thought I couldn't safely DPS. Then I decided I'd try to blow open a strategic window by going into Cleric Stance -> Swiftcast Holy and Assize. It backfired. Tank took huge damage and ended up dying a split second before Benediction went off.
What should I have done in that situation?
-> Just stick to heal mode anyway?
-> Maybe used swiftcast Holy without going into Cleric Stance?
And finally, probably the most important question: Should I REALLY be using Regen that much? I refresh it all the time during fights, but I'm starting to think doing that is a bad thing (it's probably why Titan went after me).
(This is my last post on this subject, I swear.) -
10-20-2015, 09:31 AMGhishlainHealer's will always be a necessity because no one can recover damage as consistently and strongly as one with that green icon. The thing you have to consider is that the healing output these healers can use usually far exceed the amount of damage a pack of monsters / boss may inflict in a single auto attack round / ability. This leaves a window of opportunity for healers to use the DPS part of their kit to help supplement the damage of the party and just make things faster. A dead mob can't hurt your tank anymore. DPSing is indirectly reducing your HPS requirement for the fight by causing things to die faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Venjamin
With that being said, DPS on a healer isn't a necessity to clearing content short of Savage. But once you hit a certain gear and/or skill threshold, you won't need to use your cure spells except for perhaps once ever 10 seconds or so - allowing a skilled healer to add more to their party via DPS.
However, if you're looking for a sense of urgency, you might not find that very often in this game short of Savage runs or undergeared tanks pulling much more than they should. You aren't necessarily another DPS who occasionally heals - you're a powerful healer who can supplement your party with subpar DPS (though if you do manage to match anyone's DPS on AST without overly outgearing them, shame on them..). A party won't function without that green icon there so a healer is still a necessary backbone.
Outside of a select few fights *Looks at Bismark duing P2 / final phase A4*, HPS requirement in this game is often very light. It's easy to get away with a solo heal in most non-Savage content and two skilled healers weaving stance dancing in their healing can easily do 800 to 1,200 DPS combined in most trials / Alex Normal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fevelle
You can bypass the character limit by editting your post. I'd recommend typing it out then cutting out the bits that exceed then 1,000 limit than edit and paste the words back. It's bit archaic but oh well.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaitoHikari
In terms of your opportunities to DPS, as a WHM you get one of the best tools to DPS trash with - Holy. Pop Asylum + Regen or Divine Seal Regen on your tank and then get in Cleric's and hit Holy >> Aero III >> Holy >> Holy. This will give you 7 seconds of stun and then you can resume healing, while providing some DPS to your group. Just be aware of what mobs may be immune to stun so you don't put yourself in a bad spot!
Also, sometimes the best thing to do is just Cleric's than hit Aero III + Aero / Aero II then get out and keep healing. It takes practice and comfort and not everyone will be able to get it instantly. Still, if you want to improve as a healer, I highly recommend practicing and see what limits you can and cannot hit. Make sure to take into account your tank's gear and what cooldowns they're using to help YOU in the healing department.
[EDIT] Just seeing some of the posts your putting up - in some cases the only thing you can do is healing. The best healers are those who can adapt to the situation and make the best decisions for their party. As a healer, your priority is always the party's health first. Once that's at a comfortable level, then you can bring the pain to your enemies. If that comfort level is never achieved to a myriad of inept play from the party, then so be it - grit your teeth and heal on. -
10-20-2015, 09:33 AMLyrica_AshtineWell, the most compact answer for your situation would most likely be "Overhealing". You're healing more than necessary, thus you're generating more hate than necessary. For a more numerical example: If the tank takes 1000 points of damage, but you decide to use an AoE heal and entire party recovers 9000 points combined, that's 8000 points worth of recovery that's generating hate you could have avoided generating.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaitoHikari
There are generally two things you can do as a White Mage:
Keep the overhealing to a minimum. There will always be overhealing, but whether you overheal for 10% or overheal for 70% is quite a difference. Especially in the enmity department
Use Shroud of Saints early. It sheds half your build up hate with a single press of a button
As for the other side of the story (the DPS side); I think you've pretty much decided on this part while reading your post. -
10-20-2015, 09:37 AMFevelleDo not spam AoE heals (well, do not spam AoE heals AT ALL) if your MP is low and don't even think about losing that precious MP on ressurecting someone, especially if your co-healer has a good amount of MP or you have Summoners on your party. When on this type of sitution, I try to go back to the basics and take the most out of my Cures.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaitoHikari
The 400 potency is good enough for a trial like Titan HM and you can use your cooldowns like Divine Seal with Regen and Presence of Mind to boost efficiency, while paying attention to the Cure II procs (no MP cost, yay). If sh** is really hitting the fan, I would waste some MP on a Divine Seal + Medica II combo to soften the need of healing on the party for the next 30 seconds (1/4 of the time for Shroud CD to fall off).
Also, always carry some mana potion with you, it helps a lot. -
10-20-2015, 09:59 AMVenjamin
Well, that makes me feel a little better. Vying for main healer will be my calling. Out of curiosity, how necessary does the world as a whole see Stoneskin? I'm mostly pouting because I want to get to 60 but I don't have Stoneskin yet.
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10-20-2015, 10:08 AMLyrica_AshtineBest if you consult this topic for that:Quote:
Originally Posted by Venjamin
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Stoneskin-use. -
10-20-2015, 10:38 AM416to305I agree. There's no such thing as an "off-healer", just using it in this situation to describe the healer that is doing less healing and more DPSing at that moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fevelle
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10-20-2015, 10:40 AM416to305Saito there is a 1000 limit but to get around it you just post and then edit it. So write your post here or in notepad, and just write it as the first paragraph or sentence, then hit edit and paste in the rest and save. Then you can write as long as you want.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaitoHikari
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10-20-2015, 11:25 AMLyrica_AshtineActually, there is. It's rather similar to a tank's situation where one tank takes the boss and one tank takes the adds or does heavily damaging mechanics like back in Second Coil Turn 4 (aka: Turn 8).Quote:
Originally Posted by 416to305
Personally, I wouldn't dub it "off-healer", but rather as "supportive healer". Not supportive as a healer with buffs, but to aid the "main healer" where and when it is necessary. Healers have only one primary goal: Keep the party in good shape. Staying alive is every party member's individual job, rather than the healer's job. But the number of situations where both healers are required their full attention at their healing duties are rare and short and often "fixed" somewhere at the end of the road by gear alone. These situations are often also only found in the harder content for the patch that is live. When the primary goal is met, the number one cause for wipes would be failing DPS checks under normal conditions. Be it gear checks, mechanic executions or even individual ability to perform their own role. Here is where the "supportive healer" can help contribute in. As the combined healing output requirement rarely requires both healer's maximum output, one healer or even both healers can spend more time and resources into other activities. Most of these would be helping meet the DPS checks with the current patch. If we were to look back at previous patches, healers were one of the prime picks to handle mechanics that can be passed off to the healers to handle. -
10-20-2015, 11:26 AMRadiantRay
To be honest I feel that this game over compensates tanks and healers for a lot of the raids in this game. I think it would help new healers learn how to heal in a raid setting if there wasn't always a 2nd healer covering up their mistakes (because if this game really needed 2 healers you would wipe due to lack of hps if one healer slacked off). I think that's why you see a lot of the healer dps rants on the forums for the most part.
What would make healing more fun is if they actually reduced the number of healers and tanks per raid to only 1 and only getting more when it's necessary to that particular fight. For example Titan Hard mode only needs 1 tank, but Titan extreme needs 2 and the DF should recruit accordingly. This game feels perfectly balanced for one healer because even when a healer is completely new to a dungeon/trial I always let them solo heal and most of the time they do just fine without even realizing they just solo healed while I go full time dps. -
10-20-2015, 12:03 PM416to305
I think having 2 healers is necessary just for Raise. SMN helps but others would need it as well. It's stressful solo healing a 4 man dungeon in the sense that if you let yourself fie when a boss is at like 30%, usually the party will wipe and you have to start over. I'd die if I was a solo healer in alex and I missed an AoE and everyone wipes just because of me!
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10-20-2015, 12:09 PMtechnoleThe two healer situation is more noticable when the content is new and people were not as geared for the content. Like Bismarck and Ravana Extreme during the first few weeks of HW. You can totally feel the need for both healers, with the high damage output to two tanks in one situation, to having shields with high raid wide damage output being a life-saver in the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiantRay
If you go back to ARR hard mode and most extremes, yes they can be solo healed even in level 50 sync with the amount of gear we ended ARR with. Although a return of some of Leviathan Extreme healer mechanics during the i90-i100 heyday, punishing healers for overhealing and not being strategic in their choices of heals, or healer "swap" mechanics like Infrit Extreme is likely as we get more mid-core "extreme" content outside of Alexander Savage.
The same with tanks. Titan Extreme nowadays you only need a single tank, gear at the end of ARR allowed a single MT to eat all the stacks preventing a need to tank swap. Provided DPS was on-target, they would also pick up the adds after the heart phase. Going back to minimum ilvl days with Titan and even Infrit Extreme heyday those vulnerability stacks hurt to a point where they'd die without a swap. Equilvent to that today is Alexander Floor 3 normal and savage, with the usual vulnerability getting too high = must tank swap. -
10-20-2015, 12:57 PMSaitoHikariAh, I see. Thanks for the advice everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fevelle
Shouldn't be too happy with using Medica after light AoE damage I suppose.
And... I guess the second scenario really was answered by myself already. Maybe there really wasn't much I could do in that situation. -
10-20-2015, 04:38 PMNormalizerSwiftcast Holy is not instance, it will take about 1-2 sec before it actually hits and stuns the mobs. So if you can't afford to get this 1-2 sec delay in healing, don't swiftcast holy. Beside, if the dps of the party is that low, it may not be wise to go dps mode and holy-chain those mobs (you alone cannot bring them all down, and the fight might take too long that you will go out of mana even without dpsing. Of course it's all situational.)Quote:
Originally Posted by SaitoHikari
If the tank gets a lot of mobs and takes load of dmg, I normally stick to heal only while waiting for DS to be available again. This is also a good opportunity to use Eye for an Eye on tank. -
10-20-2015, 10:12 PMCynfael
Provided that your gear is not awful and your party not AFK, it is virtually impossible to run yourself so low on MP that you cannot heal for the duration of a trash pull. You can cast Cure I on fumes, not to mention free heals from Tetra, Freecure, Asylum, and Assize (the latter two might be up a second time if your party's DPS is truly poor and the pull large or continuous).
It's not outrageous to DPS and heal until you are down to low MP and then dial back to mostly healing near the end. I find that trying to play extra conservative with a low-DPS party tends to backfire; if you don't push personal DPS when the tank uses their initial CDs, you will have missed your good window to speed things along and reduce the overall healing requirement.
Of course, for your average party, doing this is just a way to play better and to save time. I never go into a duty with the mindset of "how can I make up for these people?" It's more "how can I do my best?" -
10-20-2015, 11:47 PM416to305I didn't even see the other questions you asked Saito sorry, so let me add my 2 cents. I'm a casual player, I play in bed at night prob an hour every day, so I play a lot according to my friends, am at WHM avg level 190, have done all of Alex normal but I'm not interested in committing to some nightly schedule to do savage. I like to just play and collect tomes upgrade my gear and so on being more casual.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaitoHikari
When you are doing 8 person anything, you should have tons of time to DPS if you want. People don't take damage that fast that 2 healers can't manage as usually one person will still be healing when you flip to DPS and so on. It's a good idea at the start of pulls or bosses to even put a Regen on the tank, and then flip to cleric and then I hit the boss with Aero III, Aero II, and usually Virus when able to. They should not be taking so much damage that you don't have time to do that. Even on trash pulls in dungeons I'd try to get Aero III in as it does good damage and is AoE so hits all mobs in a group!
The only time I ever find it iffy is in the 4 person stuff especially level 50+ new dungeons when tanks are low geared or pull huge. It seems like sometimes I'm sitting there hitting Cure II over and over trying to keep up. That only ever happens to me on high level 50+ 4 person dungeons. When that happens I try my best, but I figure if the tank is taking SO much damage that I'm literally just sitting there draining my MP pool trying to keep them alive, then I figure that's their issue and not mine. If I can heal Alex 1-4 not have anyone wipe, but then be in Fractal or something and tank is just droping like mad (and assuming I have proper gear of course and don't just scratch by the minimum iLvl) then I know it can't be me. If popping all my cool downs STILL can't keep them alive, then it HAS to be their fault as what else could I possibly do? In hard mode dungeons people want out fast, so they pull huge which is fine as they aren't that hard anymore. It's the new ones, most tanks twink they can still pull massive when usually it's too much.
Lastly, don't be too worried about Titan HM, it has always been hard and especially now as people aren't really doing it as much unless they are new. The past 2 times I did it I ended up solo healing as the other healer would wipe so many times it wasn't worth raising them. Wastes my MP and they are too weak. Titan is very mechanic heavy, really comes down to knowing and memorizing the fight and knowing what is coming. Where to stack, pre-casting Medica II when he jumps in the air and so on.
I saw also another post talking about not to spam AoE heals. That was just if your MP is really low, but otherwise you definitely will do AoE otherwise you're wasting MP. It costs more to Cure/Cure II individual people vs Medica unless it's more than 2 or 3 people taking damage, then Medica or Medica II makes sense. Biggest thing to be careful of with Medica II is if its a fight where adds will come, as they will latch right on to you when they spawn, so I try to use it a bit less now.
Only other thing to say is that as mentioned I'm not hardcore at all, but I never run out of MP or even come close. You have Assize to help, Shroud, and then I even keep a few Hi or Mega Ethers or whatever they are, just in case I really need to get on there. It really just comes down to practice, which you might want to do on low level dungeons. The reason I DPS as much as I can is because leveling WHM almost a year ago pre-50 it was just boring and easy to heal those dungeons, so doing DPS would only help get through them faster. So it just feels natural to me now. You'll just learn when it's safe to do so, like someone else mentioned, if you hit the tank with a Regen etc and they seem to be somewhat stable, then sure flip over and Holy spam the mobs if you want. You'll also learn when Holy is best to use, as sometimes you'll use it on 5 mobs and they barely go down, where others are more the quick kill types where Holy just once even takes them to like 40%, where you do it again and take them all out. Just comes down to practice, but keep in mind you're not expected to DPS. So any time things are dicey or rough I just say screw it, better stick to JUST healing just to be on the safe side. Everyone plays differently and my point is, playing just casual the way I do now, I've never had a problem completing Alex 1-4 or most content, so must be doing something right. -
10-21-2015, 12:47 AMCritical-Limit
For the record there are times where eating damage as a DPS from a mechanic is worth it. A monk losing grease lightning is worse than a whm missing a stone III.
So if a monk has to put himself in damage to keep it. It's worth it to heal through. But this case doesn't happen very often. -
10-21-2015, 12:56 AMCynfaelYou're absolutely correct. I'll make the same choice to refresh Enochian on BLM if necessary, though the Ward/Wall CDs and AM help reduce the need to eat avoidable damage. No decent healer will fault a DPS for eating occasional non-lethal damage to maintain their best rotation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Critical-Limit
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10-21-2015, 01:23 AM416to305
I say just practice and play how you want, it will come with experience. Most people on here are much more hardcore than the average player. I've never had issues and have completed all of alex several times. I have no interest in being a DPS so seeing a MNK take damage I'd have zero way of knowing or caring that they did it on purpose to get out some kind of combo vs just being lazy. The buffs on the party list are so small and playing PS4 it's not like you have a mouse to easily hover over one to see what each DPS currently has on the go. It's very different playing with a static or a group of good players where things like that make sense. But for most people that just do DF, you get a huge mix. Sometimes good people sometimes bad, you just adapt.
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10-21-2015, 01:37 AMtechnoleI look at the same way with DPS having Blood for Blood being up, or a BLM using Convert (sac 20% HP for 30% MP), all of which pushes their DPS and sometimes mechanical damage just happened to line-up with it. I don't think I once asked for anyone to click off BfB in a raid I would usually notice it and compensate as-needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Critical-Limit
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10-21-2015, 01:43 AMbounddreamer
After seeing some other posts from OP I think his anxiety stems from the expectation that the tank and other party members should constantly be at, or near, full HP at all times and that's just not true. I have three healing jobs at 55, I main warrior, and I don't even start healing tanks until their health is around 50 percent unless something is going quickly, horribly wrong. Fairy heals, or cure/Benefic potency, mean healing them at greater than 50 percent risks wasting the healing toolkit you have to throw at them. And that healing toolkit, on SCH especially, allows for more downtime therefore more time to toggle cleric stance, put down shadowflare, and dot away.
Of all three healing jobs I'd say AST has the least time to dps due to card management and lack of good offensive skills so again, once OP gets to Heavensward I recommend switching to AST. -
10-21-2015, 01:50 AMCritical-LimitSomeone earlier in the thread made fun of dps taking damage during a mechanic as if it should never happen. No one corrected this person so I felt slightly obligated that sometimes DPS choose to eat damage than lose out on huge amount of dPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by technole
Example when sucked up by Alexander my grease lightning was about to wear so I shoulder tackled the left leg to get there ASAP, saved my grease lighting but I took AOE damage otw there. And I believe this was the correct decision for the team, even though I had to put stress on the healer. -
10-21-2015, 02:42 AM416to305
Honestly just practice that's where you'll get better and learn it all. Everyone plays differently, the people on this forum are definitely more hardcore. Like I said before I've never had any problem doing any floor of alex, and I never pay attention what combos or whatever some DPS is doing. I get at least 1 commendation probably 95% of the time and I've never had anyone yell or say I'm healing wrong. Point is, this forum is great for getting help and information, but it's not the end all resource. Play however you want and practice and learn what works best for you.
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10-21-2015, 06:10 AMFevelleBoth healers working together to heal when needed and dpsing when not needed is far better thean having one focus on healing while the other tend to other activities. Plus, it's way more fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine
I find the term off-healer extremely misleading and using it to "teach" newcomers about their job isn't a very smart choice. -
10-21-2015, 06:16 AMCynfaelOn the other hand it can be quite helpful to designate certain responsibilities. Whether you call it "off-healer" or "pheasant-plucker" is irrelevant. There truly are situations where one healer (or even specifically one player) is better suited to meeting the party healing requirement, taking care of one or both tanks, DPSing specific targets, or any combination of the above. This can also change from one phase to the next.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fevelle
In your average DF activity where fine distinctions are unnecessary, then I'd fall back on the sort of etiquette you described. -
10-21-2015, 06:19 AMLyrica_AshtineThere's a reason why it's a thing to make one healer focus on healing and the other do both. Namely execution. Ideally you'd want both healers cast out their highest potency spells (in nearly all the cases DoTs) rather than filler spells from either healer. But this doesn't come with risks and the amount of players capable of adapting to each other so perfectly that one cleric's on and the other cleric's off are spread wide and thin. The risks? Both healers being locked in Cleric's stance when they think it's their time to do so. You could communicate this out, but this will create pointless "noise" over the chat - Be it voice or written chat. While the whole "main-healer-supportive-healer" model isn't perfect, simplicity makes it easier to work it out with less risks involved.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fevelle
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10-21-2015, 07:22 AMGorlioliolio
@SaitoHikari in regards to your question
Regen, yes unless there is 1 mob left in a trash pack and it's close to death (or a big pack where all are close to death) if the tank isn't good they might not notice it and then you get attacked by the next pack of mobs. Medica II, situationally good to keep up.Quote:
And finally, probably the most important question: Should I REALLY be using Regen that much? I refresh it all the time during fights, but I'm starting to think doing that is a bad thing (it's probably why Titan went after me).
In that titan HM situation you described it is more likely that you cast medica 2, and then instead of sitting back and letting it work you also cast 2-3 medicas. I can't count the number of times whms did that on titan hm during 2.0 in my groups. Don't medica 2 until after heart, it's not needed, also shroud on CD (use first time after he lands the first time and you do your second aoe heal, might actually need to hold it slightly longer since dps can push it harder nowadays).
4 mans are an entirely different beast though, I don't have whm 60 currently but I have ast to 60 on my alt toon. What I do to get the most possible dps out is stack the living crap out of regens on the tank. As soon as they have agro established (sometimes it takes a while, so you might need to add a cure 2 in here to top them off before full dps) Synastry (Divine Seal) > Aspected Helios (Medica 2) > Aspected Benefic (Regen) > that AOE regen bubble thing (Asylum) > this part is ast only but Time Dilation (+15s to all those regens) and then that aoe stun (5 more seconds of regen plus 4 seconds of tank taking no damage) followed by as many gravities (Holy) as I can get out until I'm under 15% MP or the tank is under 30% HP > Essential Dignity (Tetra or bene if you have it) and then maintenance heals while I regen MP until fight is over. If the dps in your group don't suck the mobs will be dead, if they do suck the mobs are probably all around 60% because I can't do all the work, then I jump around not dpsing ONLY because I don't have the MP for it.
On my main toon I play as a tank, and when I see a healer who refuses to dps for whatever reason I drop tank stance and continue on like that. At least that way the healer has to actually do some work.
On topic finally.
I really don't understand why healers don't want to dps, they have the potential to put out 70% of a dps class (more in aoe situations if no aoe classes) as do tanks, so total of 3.4 dps class capabilities in any given expert dungeon.
If the healer doesn't do dps that drops to 2.7. Let's call 20 mins an average expert run with a healer dpsing. (I've been in fewer sub 15 min runs using DF than I can count on 1 hand, I don't know how lucky others are at DF)
2.7/3.4=79% of the potential dps of the group.
20/.79=25.2 minutes
So by not dpsing you essentially increase the time by 5 minutes and 12 seconds. If you do the bare minimum for experts each week to cap, that's 6 experts.
You have now wasted 31 minutes and 12 seconds of your time this week. If you do that for a year, that's 27 hours, 2 minutes, 24 seconds.
You have wasted over a day of your time by being lazy. It's bad enough that we are all wasting our time away playing this game, but you are going beyond that to waste even more of it only because you couldn't be bothered to push more than 2-3 buttons.
Edit: To anyone saying most dps don't do near 100% of their potential. I agree fully with that statement. However using that as a basis of argument is kind of shooting yourself in the foot. Because if most dps are doing 50% of their own potential (600 seems to be about average in most DF pugs I'm in, 1200+ from going in with people I know) your 70% just made it so the group is now doing 1.7/2.4 or 71% instead of 79%. From personal experience these 50%ers seem to be in almost every expert roulette. And all of those time wasting numbers just increased by about 35%. -
10-21-2015, 12:39 PM416to305I feel like any WHM doing Medica 2 followed by 2-3 Medica in Titan HM is seriously wasting MP! I haven't done it in forever, but generally when the ground goes red and everyone stacks, you start casting Medica II, so it hits the moment after Titan lands. There's really no need for anything else after that, as the single Medica II can easily bring everyone back. Not to mention you'll have the other healer probably doing the same type of spell, or you could even Divine Seal right before that Medica II. A single Medica might be needed after but I really don't think so, but either way 2 or 3 I've never seen before and seems like a waste. At least in my casual experience, and I've prob done it over 100 times as it used to be my #1 fav when I first hit 50.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorlioliolio
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10-21-2015, 02:04 PMTintthat 70% of a real DPS is on a dummy without ever using any healing spell. so all your numbers are wrong, because you actually have to heal between dpsing. i heared somewhere around 300 DPS as a healer is realistic (prove me wrong, i'm on PS4 and can't see my dps). so that 5 mins are probably just 2.5 mins faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorlioliolio
if i do DPS i need around 17 to 30 mins for one expert dungeon. if i don't do dps i also need 17 to 30 mins for one expert dungeon. my fastest run was btw 12 mins - only dpsing on bosses. -
10-21-2015, 07:54 PMGorlioliolio
When I run as sch I pull 1k+ on trash and usually 600+ on bosses, but my sch is only around 178 ilvl, others in here have shown their parses where they pull 700-900 on boss mobs in experts.
When I play ast my dps on trash is 90% dependant on the other dps in the group, I can pull close to 2k until my MP floors and if the actual dps suck that quickly drops to 300-400 but if they are good it maintains around 12-1300 by the end of the fight, remember this is with my first 10 seconds of the fight spent getting all my regens up and extended, so my actual dps from the point I start until I stop nuking is probably a lot higher. On bosses usually 500 or so, my ast alt is ilvl 171.
90% of dps classes are pulling 700 or less in experts from my experience.
When I run as drk I'm pulling around 1200 on trash and 950-1k on bosses (pulled a 1150 on final fractal boss once, nin/nin combo is OP for drks)
Edit: To the titan HM thing, you don't need that medica 2 on him landing, everyone will be around 90% from the initial cast alone, the regens help for the first 10 seconds but then you have 20 seconds of over healing. You only need med 2 when he starts stomping 5-6 times in a row, and that's only for MP efficiency, if you really wanted to avoid overhealing you could probably get away without a single med 2 the whole fight, especially if your partner is helping with aoe heals. In final phase the stomps are pretty much exactly 1 min apart so the sch can have their aoe regen going every single one if they are running eos. -
10-21-2015, 08:13 PMDarkerOrangeOn SCH I can pull 700 ish single target and 1.3k+ on larger pulls, quite often matching or beating DF DPS classes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tint
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10-21-2015, 10:48 PMGhishlain
Yeah, parses are for all intents and purposes "illegal" on FFXIV. Though the general consensus is to maintain Fight Club rules. Don't talk about (and definitely don't harass about it). It's a great tool to measure your maximum DPS potential with a class and it just one tool a player can use to help improve themselves.
The parse itself is over a 16 minute duration, so it's including all trash pulls in the dungeon. Something like that would highly favour a WHM and their AoE potential and do a disservice towards melee's so it's not an accurate representation of the party DPS on things that matter (bosses). Individual Boss parses are important because it can gauge how well you're doing while dealing with mechanics, adds, etc etcQuote:
Originally Posted by Twilite
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10-21-2015, 11:56 PMNamoNanamoQuote:
Originally Posted by Iris_BP
My overall Ilvl is 200 with Ravana's weapon. And for my overheal, it's easy=> Divine seal + Regen + Buble + medica2(I use medicaII against Boss or when the party took too much damage). I wanted to max dps cause we lacked of dps so I just let my hot heal them.
They were all with I200 weapons with 190-200 gear.
A lot of dungeon player are just bad or don't want to dps.
The dps against the boss wasn't high neither.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghishlain
The first boss: The drg was only 857 dps and I was 754
The second boss is a bit more tricky cause it depend a lot If I open the door before he groan or not: 745 dps for the drg and 586 for me
And the last boss was awful cause they took some mine: 693 and 519 for me
The drg has no excuse. His dps was low. Anw, the Nin was worse and the tank was... special.
A good Drg can put a lot more dps without problem. Even Against Trash Mob. I, when I play drg, with less gear, put a lot higher dps and I'm just a random Drg.