What does Heavensward actually bring to the table as an expansion?

If I was an SE dev reading all these threads constantly griping about how boring the game is that I've slaved over for possibly years, I'd be driven into a deep depression...I mean seriously. :(

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Originally Posted by T2teddy

If I was an SE dev reading all these threads constantly griping about how boring the game is that I've slaved over for possibly years, I'd be driven into a deep depression...I mean seriously. :(

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Indeed. Personally I love the game.

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Originally Posted by T2teddy

If I was an SE dev reading all these threads constantly griping about how boring the game is that I've slaved over for possibly years, I'd be driven into a deep
depression...I mean seriously. :(

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If I was that dev, I would suffer from massive reading comprehension problems.

Most complaints are coming from people who praise the game as very fun, and they have certain issues with how somethings are happening and providing feedback. They go on to add that they've become bored as they've run out of things to do. That doesn't mean everything that they have done was not fun, or was boring.

Ultimately, the biggest issue is that FFXIV released content in a way that encouraged you to speed by 90% of the content as fast as possible. Alex NM in 2 weeks, so you better be in full law so you don't miss out on one week's worth of lockouts, otherwise you'll be behind when savage launches 2 weeks later and esoterics. That's 2 weekly lockouts. So you better be up there if you want to not get left behind per se. I felt behind all of ARR, because I didn't start out right away, and I spent the entire 2.x catching up. I didn't want to feel that way in 3.x so I made sure to watch the timeline for launches to make sure I was ready.

The thing is, it doesn't have to work this way. Suggestions I've put forth, in this and other threads, which could alleviate this problem are:
1. replayable stories (I'd like to go back and experience some of the story arcs, similar to how I sometimes watch older episodes of TV shows on Netflix/dvd etc).
2. Caps on spending tomes rather than earning them. This game encourages you to have alternate jobs up until it comes to gearing, then it's one job or else. This really sucks if you need to swap jobs for savage (PLD to DRK for example or even cross roles, which is not uncommon as people try to optimize their teams). If I want to farm esoterics so I can gear my SCH in addition to my SMN, I don't see why I am prevented. However, I understand not wanting us to have full esoteric'd SMN on week 1, thus cap spending per job at 450 per week.
3. Add earning esoterics to things in the open world like fates, mix it up in what we're doing
4. Add more variety fun-stats to add horizontal progression and alternate ways to obtain different gear sets

I think I've said others, but you get the point. It's not that content is boring, it's that fun content has been made obsolete to fast leaving small amounts of fun content which is not fun to repeatedly do.

I basically log on to do my daily dungeon and that's it. There's very little left to keep me motivated to play as everything you do requires a time consuming, ultimately boring grind. There's only so much of that I can take before burn out. I'm mostly just biding my time until Fallout 4 comes out.

There are some MMOs that keep things interesting. The Secret World, for instance, not only has a ton of great lore, but mission variety is some of the best I've seen in MMOs and they're repeatable. Stealth missions and investigation missions (in which you actually use your brain and web browser to figure out) are combined with standard kill and fetch missions to provide a change of pace and not to mention there's usually actually story to every mission (and not just hunting down lost moogles). I have no clue why more game developers haven't taken a clue from that games mission structure.

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Originally Posted by T2teddy

If I was an SE dev reading all these threads constantly griping about how boring the game is that I've slaved over for possibly years, I'd be driven into a deep depression...I mean seriously. :(

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Between E3, that france thing, actual gamescom, pax, china anniversary, korean launch, and eventually tgs, counting the tavelling to time, jet lag, setting up shop, the actual events, celebrating, resting up, sight seeing, travelling back, etc for each of them, I don't think yoship and the crew would have time to be depressed about that. Wouldn't even be surprised if they spent a month doing just the above in 2 months or so. Especially when their target market and they themselves think that the game is doing more than great. I don't think they would have time to put 100% effort into 3.1 either. Not that they have to..hell, I don't think yoship even needs to be in the office anymore, the rest can just make the odd and even patches all on their own. The template is already there.

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Originally Posted by T2teddy

If I was an SE dev reading all these threads constantly griping about how boring the game is that I've slaved over for possibly years, I'd be driven into a deep depression...I mean seriously. :(

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Something I've recently started to notice is that people think video game companies or video game producers/directors are their friends. Yoshi-P's so stressed! Think of this poor man! No. I pay real, actual money monthly to play this game he's responsible for - I expect my money's worth. And when people aren't satisfied with your product, they stop paying for it. Don't get me wrong, the expansion itself was worth the price tag, I enjoyed the story and the leveling - that was genuinely a lot of fun and reminded me of when I first started the game back in 2.0. However, if it weren't for raiding with my friends, I couldn't justify subbing to this game past 1 month. I'd sub the first month and then 1 month for every other subsequent patch (though I'd personally just stop until 3.5 and then catch up then). There's really, genuinely, no reason to be subbed right now.

Think about it, genuinely consider it for a second. Why do you currently play the game? What reason do you have for playing the game? A broad answer like "fun" is meaningless, you can spend the same money on any number of games and get full, fleshed out experiences that would factually be more entertaining to you. Even if you enjoy the community aspect... just talk to them out of the game. Literally everyone I've met in XIV that I like I have on FB or Skype, I could leave the game entirely and still stay in touch with everyone important I met. If you enjoy crafting, I have a free alternative you could try: http://orteil.dashnet.org/cookieclicker/

I just genuinely don't know why people would choose to spend 15$ a month to play this game after they've finished the MSQ. There are other, more enjoyable games out there that you could be spending that money on. Why choose to stay on this one? Why are you subbed right now? Do you pay for your sub? Admittedly I could be missing something that XIV offers you couldn't get elsewhere - I'm being pretty argumentative here but I've also been playing this game since 2.0 and haven't found this missing ingredient that makes XIV stand out and justify my subscription. I'd love to know what it is because I really enjoy the MSQ and would absolutely adore continuing that experience into endgame, but I'm just not seeing it atm.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Ultimately, the biggest issue is that FFXIV released content in a way that encouraged you to speed by 90% of the content as fast as possible. [snip] So you better be up there if you want to not get left behind per se.

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None of the people I know have felt the pressured to rush through the game for fear of being left behind. Cheers to having a new raid and it's big brother to challenge us...when we get around to them. We're having a good time and not stressing about keeping up with the Joneses.

This community would be much happier if they chilled out a bit. Hard core raiders exempt of course! XD

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

I felt behind all of ARR, because I didn't start out right away, and I spent the entire 2.x catching up.

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This character was level 16 in May. I decided to ignore most stuff that was not MSQ just so he could start HW content with my other characters. But hey, now I'm going back and picking up the content I missed.

Everyone has a right to play as they wish. My choice is the slow and steady with my characters. I love the story so much I'm repeating it 4 times.

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Originally Posted by Evtrai

/snip

I feel like I can give a sigh of relief however, that the NA community is not alone in being tired of the formula, yesterday I browsed the Japanese boards, and they are also unhappy and complaining about the same topics being discussed here recently, being tired of the content and how they are considering to stop playing. Hopefully, with the complains in both ends, they will revise the stratergy and planning for future patches.

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Id never use the excuse that you have read. I do agree more needs to be done, I never said it did not, I just stated that what they have done so far is pretty good. But instead of making a topic that says, "what does the expansion bring to the table, blah blah blah" maybe stating what you like about the game, then what could improve, then making suggestions on how to improve it would be much better.. <3 :) Id just like to see more ideas about what to fix and ideas of how to do it on these forums.

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Originally Posted by SasukeUchiha81

Id never use the excuse that you have read. I do agree more needs to be done, I never said it did not, I just stated that what they have done so far is pretty good. But instead of making a topic that says, "what does the expansion bring to the table, blah blah blah" maybe stating what you like about the game, then what could improve, then making suggestions on how to improve it would be much better.. <3 :) Id just like to see more ideas about what to fix and ideas of how to do it on these forums.

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A lot of ideas has already been posted by people here and in other threads that have spawned recently, for example, it's been already tried and said that crafting is crap but there seems no urgency into working it out, let's see if they leave it unchanged in 3.1 or hopefully have some tweaks underwraps.

It's not to me to think what a vendor should do to sell their product, I'm paying them, but they are not paying me, they are the designers, I'm a consumer and as a customer that I'm still partly interested in their product, I'm voicing my opinion, to like any other developer or company, that you are unsatisfied with what they are selling.

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Originally Posted by T2teddy

None of the people I know have felt the pressured to rush through the game for fear of being left behind. Cheers to having a new raid and it's big brother to challenge us...when we get around to them. We're having a good time and not stressing about keeping up with the Joneses.

This community would be much happier if they chilled out a bit. Hard core raiders exempt of course! XD

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I feel you misunderstand my post. I was saying the design of the game encouraged you to rush through. I didn't mean to imply that everyone did or felt the need to.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Why do you currently play the game? What reason do you have for playing the game? A broad answer like "fun" is meaningless, [snip] I'm being pretty argumentative here but I've also been playing this game since 2.0 and haven't found this missing ingredient that makes XIV stand out and justify my subscription. [snip]

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I have no desire to play any other game, thanks.
I don't care if you think 'I'm having fun' is meaningless. Its only meaningless to you. I am content, and will stay subbed tyvm.

I don't play just for the story. The combat is my stress relief. Working out tactics to beat fights, is challenging and entertaining.

I fail to understand why people feel they must charge through games like raging bulls only to get to the end far sooner than the developers had expected then complain, or unsub until new stuff comes out.

This IS just the beginning of the expansion. I see no reason to hurry.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

I feel you misunderstand my post. I was saying the design of the game encouraged you to rush through. I didn't mean to imply that everyone did or felt the need to.

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I misunderstood nothing. I simply do not feel the same way as you about the game design. People can rush through content if they so desire. Do they NEED to? No. That is their choice.
Alexander wasn't going to stand up and walk away to parts unknown if nobody entered it by a set point in time. :cool:

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Originally Posted by T2teddy

I misunderstood nothing. I simply do not feel the same way as you about the game design. People can rush through content if they so desire. Do they NEED to? No. That is their choice.
Alexander wasn't going to stand up and walk away to parts unknown if nobody entered it by a set point in time. :cool:

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Again you are not understanding. I am saying, by design with lockouts, weekly caps, sources of currency and timing of releasing raids, encourage the behavior.

An analogy would be if you placed a carrot in front of a mule to have it walk forward, your design is to have it try to reach your carrot and move forward. If certain mules end up not liking the carrot or not caring as much as others, that doesn't matter. The point is that the carrot is there and by design it's in place to have you move forward and leave everything behind.

In my opinion, this is not bad design. However, it would be better if they had incentives/encouragements to replay older content (see old post).

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Originally Posted by T2teddy

snip.

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Not everyone "rushes" thru and gets bored. ^_^; Some people just have good time management skills. My BF is a full time engineer student at a pretty demanding university here in NYC, and yet he finished everything in about 2 weeks. The end game right now is rather boring and there needs to be more variety, period. The devs already stated this a few times and know it is an issue.

Jeez... You guys are putting me on a depression!

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Originally Posted by SasukeUchiha81

Id never use the excuse that you have read. I do agree more needs to be done, I never said it did not, I just stated that what they have done so far is pretty good. But instead of making a topic that says, "what does the expansion bring to the table, blah blah blah" maybe stating what you like about the game, then what could improve, then making suggestions on how to improve it would be much better.. <3 :) Id just like to see more ideas about what to fix and ideas of how to do it on these forums.

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Let me give this a shot.

Goblin invasion:
Every few irl hours, the illuminati will launch an attack on a massive scale and breach idyllshire. There will be swarms of goblin enemies and mechs from all over the place in hinterlands trying to get to the north (numbers scale on number of players in hw areas). There will be multiple objectives but not always the same set and timing but if accomplished it will help the players fend off the attack (take down x amount of enemies, capture a specific outposts, hijack tanks and wreck havoc on enemy lines, force enemy commanders to retreat, etc). Should the players fail, idyllshire will be closed to the players but they can attempt to take it back any time. Players afking in idyll shire when it was captured will be put in jail but can break out at anytime and help liberate idyllshire from within. Successfully fending off an attack, players who participated (grading is similar to fate and while lax, your score will have a hidden degradation counter to encourage full participation) will be rewarded by the goblins in some way.

Dragon hunting:
Despite the events after HW msq, many dragons are still disgruntled and wrecking several zones. Ishgard are seeking a band of adventurers to hunt these violent dragons down. A party of 4 or 8 can go to a counter in ishgard and take these hunting missions. Once they reach the zones where the target is, they will have to figure out to lure the target out by setting bait, slaying their minions, etc and then slay these dragons that only the party can kill, akin to treasure maps but poses more challenge. Personally, I would like the difficulty to be between dungeons bosses and extreme primals. Success will be rewarded with special rewards only available in ishgard

Ishgardian training grounds:
To prepare for attacks from a certain dragon, Ishgard has requested adventurers and specifically you, the wotl to join combat training for the ishgard soldiers and volunteers. You will be facing waves of enemies alone and try to last as long as you can, with bonus rewards for reaching milestone waves and beating certain bosses (ishgardian royal knights that can use similar but less elaborate versions of the 12 knights). These fights will be tuned for different roles but will test your skill as X class to the limit. Before entering the fights, you can set whether you want to let other players watch you fight or not, granting morale/minor stat bonuses for a couple hour to both the fighter and audience.

I think I shouldn't make this any longer but i'll write a few more with less details. Like allowing your chocobo to enter the ishgard chocobo arena, getting them to fight and learn AI exp and see them fight on their own while you watch as a 'second' and suggest commands to them and you can fight other people's chocobos too and what your choco learns in there might even translate to its behavior in open world. Or having a big server wide project for crafters and gatherers to get that big ship working...like having a group of 4 crafters working on a part of the ship and each crafter will get x seconds to perform one turn before the next crafter in the party adds in the next move.

Now all of that, should not need the art department to design giant impressive enemies with elaborate and unique to itself animations that most players will only fight twice and then forget about it. I mean, wanderer's palace had an FFXI mob supersized with hilariously bad textures as the last boss but I don't really see people up in arms about it. ****! I don't need to be wowed with impressive production values all the time! Especially when they make it and then euthanize it within weeks JUST because its ilvl rewards aren't good enough anymore.

By the lords, the amount of salt in this thread... Imma just...

http://images.onesite.com/capcom-uni...d6.gif?v=57750

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Originally Posted by T2teddy

I have no desire to play any other game, thanks.

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Oh... well... okay then...

I <3 it, sounds like some elements from FFXI !! Maybe now start a fresh thread labeled "here is some good ideas to add in game!" I dunno, such a great post there deserves its own thread~ XD

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Originally Posted by SasukeUchiha81

I <3 it, sounds like some elements from FFXI !! Maybe now start a fresh thread labeled "here is some good ideas to add in game!" I dunno, such a great post there deserves its own thread~ XD

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No it is not. None of them are. How dare you try to equate these ideas of mine that are not unique nor innovative yet not present in XIV as endgame content to elements of that game. Are you trying to sentence these ideas to death? Do you realize where you are?!

Seriously though, I thought of XIV's areas first before barfing out what I wrote. I did not run to XI first or ever, through out my write up.

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Originally Posted by T2teddy

I misunderstood nothing. I simply do not feel the same way as you about the game design. People can rush through content if they so desire. Do they NEED to? No. That is their choice.
Alexander wasn't going to stand up and walk away to parts unknown if nobody entered it by a set point in time. :cool:

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That is the main problem! A lot of us do not rush trough the content lol. I only play 2 to 3 hours, 3 - 4 days a week and with little effort I have catched up with everything up to date, just to the point of logging in to do my Ex roulette and AS. Is this fun to you? I find it rather disappointing due to the lack of creativity at this stage of the game, as how they keep the same formula on every patch they release.

Yeah I can try something new as there is much you can still do in the game! I'll take my mount to fly across those beautiful and abandoned areas that no one revisits

http://s30.postimg.org/nivs2og0x/201...yycgvd7mky.jpg

Epic fun!

You might be thinking ''If it's so bad then why don't you quit?'' The answer is because the game mechanics, art, graphics, story, engine performance, stability, up time service and system in general are not bad, it's enjoyable! However, it they would listen to the community they could turn it out into a better experience. It has potential and reason why I haven't give up on this game...yet.

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Originally Posted by Magis

That was similar to FFXI's Merit Point system wasn't it?

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That I could not say, as I did not play FFXI.

Everyone have the right to have their opinion of the game.
Me i love the game and i'm a slow and not hard care gamer. Sometime i would online but be afk or playing another game on another screen while talk to my FC. I got my DOL all 60/ armorer 60 ..and DRK 60 only
I didn't do they last 2 dungeon or alexander YET. Because i love taking my time :)
And i respect other who enjoy going fast

But please don't try to justify that the game is crap for everyone. Your not me and don't have the right to put me in the "Everyone" words..... cos i'm sure there is people who love that game and are happy the way it is. And i don't mean that you are wrong about they should put more stuff because i can't wait for new things tp be add ^^.

I just mean that i like playing that game :) amd ot's the best game i've played and i try alot of games that got deleted of my pc after 3-4 month of playing ...

Im subscribe since Jan 2011 and play it since then and didnt think of deleting it even at 1.0 had alot of fun :) ..i dont know why my forum say 2012 feb ..but on my sub account said : " Jan. 12, 2011 FINAL FANTASY XIV Registered" so with that you can see with my character profil when i say i love playing slow :P i didnt lvl all the class

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Originally Posted by Gardes

1. Goblin invasion
2. Dragon hunting
3.Ishgardian training grounds
4. allowing your chocobo to enter the ishgard chocobo arena, getting them to fight and learn AI exp and see them fight on their own while you watch as a 'second' and suggest commands to them and you can fight other people's chocobos too
5. Or having a big server wide project for crafters and gatherers to get that big ship working...like having a group of 4 crafters working on a part of the ship and each crafter will get x seconds to perform one turn before the next crafter in the party adds in the next move.

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SE hire this amazing creative mind!

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Originally Posted by savarna

However, if they would listen to the community they could turn it out into a better experience. It has potential .

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100% agree with this

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Originally Posted by Gardes

No it is not. None of them are. How dare you try to equate these ideas of mine that are not unique nor innovative yet not present in XIV as endgame content to elements of that game. Are you trying to sentence these ideas to death? Do you realize where you are?!

Seriously though, I thought of XIV's areas first before barfing out what I wrote. I did not run to XI first or ever, through out my write up.

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OMG.. "Do you realize where you are?!" I'm dead, so true, I am sorry.. Lol

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Originally Posted by T2teddy

SE hire this amazing creative mind!

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Anyone can come up with grand ideas when you have no idea how to implement them, what the constraints of that implementation are, what the actual demand is, etc.

SE is making the same mistakes that every other MMO developer have made...

They spend by far the most development time on content that players spend the least time on.

That's always how it has been. More players are leveling several times in FFXIV than most other MMOs, but still... They spend lots of time making big areas that has nothing special in them, and they are only really used to it's fullest when you are leveling, and even then, only when you're doing side quests.

Most of those areas should have been focused on endgame content, which could be pretty cool.

Then you have dungeons... 8 new dungeons, but only 2 that you really do once you're 60. Dungeons take time to make, so why not give us 3-4 dungeons in Expert roulette, and take the development time for the remaining 4-5 dungeons, and develop some mid-core content at 60.

There are ways to make the leveling from 50-60 pretty interesting, while making most of the new content for endgame, instead of spending most time on content before endgame.

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Originally Posted by Craiger

Most of those areas should have been focused on endgame content, which could be pretty cool.

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Are you insane? The end-game community is demontrably the minority of active players. The official census and Playstation trophy data both confirm how small the end-game community is. End-game is the content seen by the least number of players in the game. Maybe you've forgotten the target market for this game?

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Are you insane? The end-game community is demontrably the minority of active players. The official census and Playstation trophy data both confirm how small the end-game community is. End-game is the content seen by the least number of players in the game. Maybe you've forgotten the target market for this game?

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Maybe we have different views on what endgame is.

I don't mean content like Alexander Savage... I'm talking about content in general that you do once you've hit 60 and gone past the very fast gear up phase (Law). Fractal and Neverreap is endgame IMO at the moment for example, cause you need to do them to get the Eso tomes. I'm talking about content that stays relevant for while at the maximum level.

If you're complaining about not having enough to do in the game, then you've most likely experienced endgame... that's how I look at it at least.

Leveling is just a tiny part of the game in the end, and the longer the expansion have been out, fewer and fewer players will be leveling, and the areas will become more empty every week.

All those areas added, but everyone is still just idling in some city or maybe going out to gather once in a while (just flying through the areas)

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Originally Posted by Evtrai

A lot of ideas has already been posted by people here and in other threads that have spawned recently, for example, it's been already tried and said that crafting is crap

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One of the reasons endgame is boring to me right now. I still craft and gather, always will, but red scrips kill my soul. Crafting in general is not fun right now. Savage is cool, but it's not that exciting due to farming story mode beforehand. My static records our kills, and at the end of every Alex savage video I don't say a word. Whereas at the end of every coil video I'm screaming in joy.

FYI (not to the person I'm quoting, just to whoever) none of what I just said means that I "don't like the game". It's simply how I feel about some content this time around.

Well lets see:

• HW brought some new salad dressings to add with my new list of jobs to play.
• HW brought me this new Wisconsin cheese to add to my ever growing glamour list.
• HW brought me a jet pack that I can strap to the butt of my mounts so I don't have to get hit or have heavy poo slung on me by every mob from point A to Z.
• HW brought me this new universal remote so I can fast forward through old content faster when leveling jobs 1 to 50 and also get through the old relic quests faster. I will get that Zeta one of these days :P
• HW has an all you can eat buffet at the new and somewhat improved PVP arenas oh don't forget to try out the new drive though so you can buy the i100 - i110 pvp gear with no rank :)

Jokes aside HW has brought some brand new mechanics to the lvl 51 - 60 dungeons. I especially enjoyed the subs and last bosses in the lvl 51 - lvl 60 dungeons. the Vault is by far my fave. I can not wait to see what else they do.

For the 50-60 experience it brought quite a bit but currently their end-game is really lacking. I already have some of my friends and fc members tell me they are bored/leaving the game because there is nothing there. End-game is just reduced to expert roulette with 2 dungeons then Alexander savage if your doing it.

I just wish there was more to the flying.

Like give me a reason to fly. Some sort of mini quests where I have to airdrop supplies to NPC troops/airdrop buffs to players? or put out fires or airlift rescue people and take them somewhere. or something more complex like taking a couple of friends out on one of those big Ishgard zeppelins and go on patrol and have to fight off dragons with Bertha cannons and Dragon Killers and maintain the ship while it's going (Guns of Icarus style). Or at the very least 2seater flying mounts? Just because.

Just feels like there's a lot of missed opportunities with the ability to fly now.

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Originally Posted by Chambers

I just wish there was more to the flying.

Like give me a reason to fly. Some sort of mini quests where I have to airdrop supplies to NPC troops/airdrop buffs to players? or put out fires or airlift rescue people and take them somewhere. or something more complex like taking a couple of friends out on one of those big Ishgard zeppelins and go on patrol and have to fight off dragons with Bertha cannons and Dragon Killers and maintain the ship while it's going (Guns of Icarus style). Or at the very least 2seater flying mounts? Just because.

Just feels like there's a lot of missed opportunities with the ability to fly now.

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Yeah, I posted earlier about the new areas being used for endgame content, and this is why... Apart from flying to nodes, maps or whatever, you're not actually doing anything special in the areas. Because there isn't much to do in the areas outside of when you're leveling (even then, you're just waiting for fates or doing dungeons), flying mounts doesn't feel very cool.

When I first unlocked flying, I just explored everything and imagined all the cool things you could do now that everyone can fly... but it was short lived, because there are no such things.

It doesn't matter how big or beautiful they make the areas if there are no reason to be there once you're done leveling.

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Originally Posted by Remus

For the 50-60 experience it brought quite a bit but currently their end-game is really lacking. I already have some of my friends and fc members tell me they are bored/leaving the game because there is nothing there. End-game is just reduced to expert roulette with 2 dungeons then Alexander savage if your doing it.

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If you're billing Neverreap and Fractal as "endgame" you should also be including Bismarck and Ravana EX and Alexander Normal.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

If you're billing Neverreap and Fractal as "endgame" you should also be including Bismarck and Ravana EX and Alexander Normal.

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Bismark was obsolete upon release, Ravana lasted a couple weeks, and Alexander Normal about the same. There is no relevant content. My friends have all left too. And their friends...and so forth. This time they aren't coming back either. :(

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

If you're billing Neverreap and Fractal as "endgame" you should also be including Bismarck and Ravana EX and Alexander Normal.

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Those are endgame too, but lets be real here, they don't have as much "pull" for you to keep doing them that long. Bismarck doesn't drop anything useful, and most players just farm it if you want a specific glamour. The weapons from Ravana can be useful, but even then, there is a limited amount of runs you do to get what you need.

Alexander Normal is relevant longer if you want to gear up a lot of jobs, but a lot of players just don't bother with it anymore... Like myself for example. I got what I need for my main after 5 weeks, and now I have gear for another job too if I want, but I don't see the point in doing that every week just to gear up more jobs.

It's the same for majority of players I think, and then it's just dungeons and Savage left pretty much.

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Originally Posted by Craiger

Those are endgame too, but lets be real here, they don't have as much "pull" for you to keep doing them that long. Bismarck doesn't drop anything useful, and most players just farm it if you want a specific glamour. The weapons from Ravana can be useful, but even then, there is a limited amount of runs you do to get what you need.

Alexander Normal is relevant longer if you want to gear up a lot of jobs, but a lot of players just don't bother with it anymore... Like myself for example. I got what I need for my main after 5 weeks, and now I have gear for another job too if I want, but I don't see the point in doing that every week just to gear up more jobs.

It's the same for majority of players I think, and then it's just dungeons and Savage left pretty much.

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Yep, I agree a lot of the endgame content doesn't have much pull to keep you going back to it. I dunno what they were thinking with Bismarck Extreme basically being obsolete upon release. These days, I don't even do Expert Roulette unless I'm specifically asked to. I get my Esoterics from Alexander Normal and PvP. Last night my raid static spent a few hours selling some Ravana Extreme, which was a cool way to pass the time. Get some money, get some free Hive tokens, get some FFA drops; it all works out.

At this point in the game, I've been doing a lot of crafting and gathering as well as leveling up alt classes. I'm willing to give kind of a pass for the endgame content for the time being because I understand we haven't even seen the first major patch of the expansion and a lot of development time for the expac itself had to go into the leveling dungeons, the story, the skills, the maps, the additional content for DoH/DoL etc. Most of the people complaining about a lack of content seem to focus on one aspect of the game and ignore the rest of it, and are mostly complaining that there's no content specifically for their niche. I dunno. I just get tired of people saying that all we have is 2 dungeons and 1 raid, which isn't true at all. Hopefully 3.1 brings some fun stuff. ^^

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Originally Posted by Iromi

Bismark was obsolete upon release, Ravana lasted a couple weeks, and Alexander Normal about the same. There is no relevant content. My friends have all left too. And their friends...and so forth. This time they aren't coming back either. :(

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I'm starting to think they'll need to do another Realm Reborn to really address the problems they are having with end game. It's hard to put into words, but it feels like the game needs side grades to avoid there being a single best set that trumps everything. Right now the only thing that matters is how fast we kill stuff, which is roughly determined by ilvl.

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Originally Posted by Fendred

I'm starting to think they'll need to do another Realm Reborn to really address the problems they are having with end game. It's hard to put into words, but it feels like the game needs side grades to avoid there being a single best set that trumps everything. Right now the only thing that matters is how fast we kill stuff, which is roughly determined by ilvl.

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That would be the case even with side grades though. You don't need super awesome dps to get through dungeons, but everyone acts like if it takes longer than 20 mins its a waste of time.