DRG has been broken for far too long. Fix it SE

I think Elusive jump needs to be much more accessible. Maybe on a much smaller CD then it is now. While this may not happen, I think DRGs also need a 30-40 potency increase across most of their skills. Right now they are too easily surpassed in DPS by MNKs and NINs. It aint right man T_T.

Heavy Thrust +10% damage increase.
Chaos Thrust +5 potency per tick.
Phlebotomize +5 potency per tick.
Power Surge: Jump and Spineshatter are granted critical 100%, 50% damage buff extends to Dragonfire Dive.
Doom Spike: Combo after Ring of Thornes, increased potency used on combo +20.

Japanese Forum has a developper that said they are looking into buffin goons

Seeing how the last CD reduction of spineshatter and dragonfire dive, which was quite significant, only amounted to a rough 1% sustained dps increase, really made me think about how strongly they could buff jump potency without making DRG op.

When you consider the 40s CD and 200 potency in comparison to raiton which has 360 potency, you could essentially put a ridiculous potency behind jump if the goal was 5-10% higher dps.
I think a lot of players would enjoy if jumps had a larger overall effect on DRG dps.

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Originally Posted by ChaozK

Seeing how the last CD reduction of spineshatter and dragonfire dive, which was quite significant, only amounted to a rough 1% sustained dps increase, really made me think about how strongly they could buff jump potency without making DRG op.

When you consider the 40s CD and 200 potency in comparison to raiton which has 360 potency, you could essentially put a ridiculous potency behind jump if the goal was 5-10% higher dps.
I think a lot of players would enjoy if jumps had a larger overall effect on DRG dps.

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I agree quite strongly with this if the Math is correct. Jump is the signature ability and should do the most damage, IMO. Since DRG is Spike damage and AoE damage, the spikes should be really high. Just my .02.

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Originally Posted by LegendWait

Japanese Forum has a developper that said they are looking into buffin goons

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Links and pics or it doesn't exist.

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Originally Posted by Kamifubuki-Yoakesetsuri

Links and pics or it doesn't exist.

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...46#post2574746

For you.

Thanks for the all feedback.

The development team is currently working on making adjustments to enhance dragoon and they are taking all of your feedback into consideration. Once the implementation timing and other such details have been decided I will make a follow-up.

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Originally Posted by Grekumah

Thanks for the all feedback.

The development team is currently working on making adjustments to enhance dragoon and they are taking all of your feedback into consideration. Once the implementation timing and other such details have been decided I will make a follow-up.

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I'm "looking forward to it"

That is what people asked for. A comment acknowledging the issues, with a promise of adjustments. Hopefully they'll make us less magic immune, more mobile, and let us jump more as part of our rotations.

there's nothing wrong with DRG. they are very straight forward and easy to play.

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Originally Posted by BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY

there's nothing wrong with DRG. they are very straight forward and easy to play.

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0/10

/10char

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Originally Posted by Grekumah

Thanks for the all feedback.

The development team is currently working on making adjustments to enhance dragoon and they are taking all of your feedback into consideration. Once the implementation timing and other such details have been decided I will make a follow-up.

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Have them swap phlembotomize and disembowel! (at least the debuff/dot portion.) That way having 2 dragoon can at least be as useful as having 2 monk >_________>

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Originally Posted by Grekumah

Thanks for the all feedback.

The development team is currently working on making adjustments to enhance dragoon and they are taking all of your feedback into consideration. Once the implementation timing and other such details have been decided I will make a follow-up.

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Hi Grekumah,

Thank you. :) I realize there's a lot of back-and-forth in this thread, but if you can, please browse through it and send Yoshi P some of the Great Ideas from the English-Speaking Players here on how to improve Dragoon.

Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Grekumah

Thanks for the all feedback.

The development team is currently working on making adjustments to enhance dragoon and they are taking all of your feedback into consideration. Once the implementation timing and other such details have been decided I will make a follow-up.

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That is good news, even though I do not have one myself I realize too that they need to be improved in order to be brought up to par with ninjas and monks.

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Originally Posted by pompey_dan

Jump cooldown reduced from 40 sec to 30 sec. ~ 4-5 dps increase. (Also makes better use of power surge cooldown time)
Heavy thrust damage buff increased from 15% to 20% ~ 22.5 dps increase. (Assuming 450 dps sustained on the more difficult fights)

There we go DRG fixed.
Jump animation lock is fine as l2p etc.
MDEF could use a slight buff (I'm currently at 6800 hp on turn 13 to be comfortable with incoming AOE's whilst other dps are at ~6200hp)

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Not fixed, now we are on par with a MNK, still have angle restrictions and have no raid utility.

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Originally Posted by Grekumah

Thanks for the all feedback.

The development team is currently working on making adjustments to enhance dragoon and they are taking all of your feedback into consideration. Once the implementation timing and other such details have been decided I will make a follow-up.

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Thank you, thank you so much. I am relieved to hear (er, read) that the devs are working on enhancing dragoon. I could not wrap my head around why it was being neglected. I am grateful that you have kept us in the loop, and i look forward to seeing what improvements are in store for the dragoon job.

Suggestions for improving Dragoon
1. Increase the potency of True Thrust and Vorpal Thrust by 10% (New Sustain Damage Potency 165-220-330)
2. Increase The damage increase on Heavy Thrust to 20% keep the flank requirement.
3. Increase the potency of impuse drive to 200 from 180 keep rear requirement.
4. Take of the dot effect of Chaos Thrust and convert it into raw damage New potency 410 from 200
5. Remove the dot effect of phlebotemize increase the potency to 300 and add a 10% increase to attack speed that lasts 18 seconds and make it require the chaos thrust combo
6. reduce the CD of jump to 30 secs
If this seems too OP then nerf our AoE capabilities. The vast majority of DRGs prefer single target damage. DRGs have little utility besides more defense and hp but extremely gimped mag defense which is to be blunt bs. make drgs have the highest dps potential in both spike and sustained dps to compensate for out lack off utility and gimped mag defense.

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Originally Posted by Kamifubuki-Yoakesetsuri

Suggestions for improving Dragoon
1. Increase the potency of True Thrust and Vorpal Thrust by 10% (New Sustain Damage Potency 165-220-330)
3. Increase the potency of impuse drive to 200 from 180 keep rear requirement.
4. Take of the dot effect of Chaos Thrust and convert it into raw damage New potency 410 from 200.

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Your suggestion makes no sense.

Why use the True Thrust -> Vorpal Thrust -> Full Thrust combo at all if Impulse Drive and Chaos Thrust are buffed as such?

165+220+330 = 715
vs
200+220+410 = 830

The whole reason why some skills are DoTs is to allow the player to have high total potency skills without them being spammable.

Dragoon is about MASSIVE DAMAGE. That combo won't become spamable the point of it would be to INCREASE ATK SPEED with phlebotomize you'll continue your usual rotation as usual.

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Originally Posted by Kamifubuki-Yoakesetsuri

Dragoon is about MASSIVE DAMAGE. That combo won't become spamable the point of it would be to INCREASE ATK SPEED with phlebotomize you'll continue your usual rotation as usual.

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Please stop trying to change one of my favorite classes to suit your flavor. D: We're about massive damage, but we're also intelligent about it.

For example, the application of dots right now means I can tab between targets with my dots if I have faith that others can nuke it down. This is referred to as 'tabdotting', and it's one of the ways to effectively increase our DPS. With your system, I would never have a reason to use my main combo when Ihave Life Surge up because spamming my back-attacks would just be insane potency. To say the least - you'd make Dragoon substantially more braindead.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Please stop trying to change one of my favorite classes to suit your flavor. D: We're about massive damage, but we're also intelligent about it.

For example, the application of dots right now means I can tab between targets with my dots if I have faith that others can nuke it down. This is referred to as 'tabdotting', and it's one of the ways to effectively increase our DPS. With your system, I would never have a reason to use my main combo when Ihave Life Surge up because spamming my back-attacks would just be insane potency. To say the least - you'd make Dragoon substantially more braindead.

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You assume that you'll always have access to the rear of a target. No. outside of mega experienced raid groups and decent tanks in dungeons. You will always have 100% time on a mobs / bosses arse? Yes indeed you will /sarcasm

There are very few exceptions where I don't have full access to a boss's rear. SE has done well in improving this facet of our job - and faciliated us more with a lot of times where our damage can be static. Part of Dragoon is knowing where to strike and when - just like a real lancer would look for his openings.

If you're incapable of this, that's on you, but again - stop trying to change my job to suit your flavor. Making it braindead "I just want to ID -> Dis -> CT all the time" would be boring and take away the class's flavor.

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Originally Posted by Kamifubuki-Yoakesetsuri

You assume that you'll always have access to the rear of a target. No. outside of mega experienced raid groups and decent tanks in dungeons. You will always have 100% time on a mobs / bosses arse? Yes indeed you will /sarcasm

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I think you are mistaken. You do have access to the rear of most fights in FFXIV, except the Demon Wall in AK.

Most bosses face the tank, with their butts ready to be poked by the party.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

There are very few exceptions where I don't have full access to a boss's rear. SE has done well in improving this facet of our job - and faciliated us more with a lot of times where our damage can be static. Part of Dragoon is knowing where to strike and when - just like a real lancer would look for his openings.

If you're incapable of this, that's on you, but again - stop trying to change my job to suit your flavor. Making it braindead "I just want to ID -> Dis -> CT all the time" would be boring and take away the class's flavor.

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No, apparently you're braindead because you can't see that these are merely suggestions that can be improved upon. The point of this revision is apply an Attack speed buff something that Dragoon really needs. MNK and NIN BOTH have an atk speed buff that substantially increases dps potential. the only flaw in my suggestion is the OP potencies.

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Originally Posted by LordLonghammer

Please any dragoon on T12 talk to this man about a little thing called Flame's of Rebirth. (since you don't know flames of rebirth is a raid wide Magic AoE that the boss does that gets stronger every time it ticks off, around the 10th stack my Dragoon could no longer B4B, 12 Stacks I needed personal adlo, 14stacks unable to be helped and the rest of the party is alive and kicking)

The way around this by the way is to get i90 crafted jewelry melded with Vit to make our dps even lower.

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sounds like a personal issue....

Well HT and ID does give bonus potency when hit on the right spot (100 to 150 HT and 100 to 180 ID) so I don't think "position reqs." are the cause of the Job's subpar DPS. I personally as a DRG player love the gimmick of landing HT and ID on their correct positions - it's our thing! What we lack is an inherent ability to self-buff ourselves.

MNK has GL which gives 9% ATK and 5% SPD per stack, which totals to 27% ATK and 15% SPD at GL3. Ninjas have Futon (15% SPD). Thus both Jobs have the ability to dish out more DPS due to their low GCDs. DRG does not have its own version of those inherent buffs.

NIN has Raiton every 20 secs which deals 360 potency while DRG has Leg Sweep every 20 secs which deals 120 potency, 1/3 of what Raiton hits for.

Continued from previous post:

In terms of utility, MNK has FoE to buff up their defense; DK that lowers INT = lowers M.ATK damage; and Mantra that boosts healing by 20% (Which basically means a Cure III would heal the party from 1/3 health to full). NIN has Goad which is really neat (Experienced myself in T8 as a DRG and in some instances as a tank); Ninjutsus are basically a swiss knife (U got burst, u got aoe, u got dot, u got self-buff, etc.), you got a slashing resistance debuff move, and finally Trick Attack that is basically a Foe Requiem for the entire group. Dragoons have none to support the team and Disembowel's debuff doesn't really count.

Continued from previous post:

I'm fine if DRGs don't have any utility to support the party at all / glass cannon. Make them the selfish DPS stereotype where all they do is attack, attack and attack. Thus to make up for their lack of utility and defense, they have to be able to hit very very hard. I've played so many RPG / MOBA games where there's a class / hero / character that doesn't have any skills other than purely offensive moves. DRGs should be like that.

So I guess as of now, a good solution to buff DRG without completely overhauling its playstyle is to enchance HT's attack boost from 15% to like, 20% or so, and a high increase in raw potency. We make up our slow hits with heavy hitting bursts instead of dishing it out fast like MNKs do.

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Originally Posted by kyrios91

Well HT and ID does give bonus potency when hit on the right spot (100 to 150 HT and 100 to 180 ID) so I don't think "position reqs." are the cause of the Job's subpar DPS. I personally as a DRG player love the gimmick of landing HT and ID on their correct positions - it's our thing! What we lack is an inherent ability to self-buff ourselves.

MNK has GL which gives 9% ATK and 5% SPD per stack, which totals to 27% ATK and 15% SPD at GL3. Ninjas have Futon (15% SPD). Thus both Jobs have the ability to dish out more DPS due to their low GCDs. DRG does not have its own version of those inherent buffs.

NIN has Raiton every 20 secs which deals 360 potency while DRG has Leg Sweep every 20 secs which deals 120 potency, 1/3 of what Raiton hits for.

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Raiton doesn't stun.

Reduce the jumps to 30 second intervals: ie. Jump 30 sec, Spineshatter Dive 60 sec (fine as is), Dragonfire Dive 90 sec, Elusive Jump 60 sec.

A good drg is able to use these jumps to get from mob A to B in a flash and more time spent on a mob is more time for dps. With the lower gcd on these skills we have more tools to get from one mob to the next without having to walk. If shoulder tackle is on a 30 sec gcd (with stun!) why cant jump be on a 30 sec gcd?

I actually like the positionals despite it being annoying to land at times, but it shows how much skill is required to land HT on a moving target. Also SE if you can fix the HT buff so that you get it at the START of the attack animation instead of the end that would help.

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Originally Posted by kyrios91

NIN has Raiton every 20 secs which deals 360 potency while DRG has Leg Sweep every 20 secs which deals 120 potency, 1/3 of what Raiton hits for.

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Jugulate + Wasp = 30.0 second recast with a potency of 80 /w stun.

wth does Raiton have to do with it.

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Originally Posted by kyrios91

NIN has Raiton every 20 secs which deals 360 potency while DRG has Leg Sweep every 20 secs which deals 120 potency, 1/3 of what Raiton hits for.

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Except that a ninja cannot use raiton every 20 seconds. If you use raiton every 20 seconds you would lose huton speed buff and suiton for trick attack. If anything you'd probably use it once every 60 seconds (not counting kassatsu use) so in your formula they would be worth the same potency. Also you can edit a post to bypass the 1k character limit.

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Originally Posted by Kamifubuki-Yoakesetsuri

Suggestions for improving Dragoon
1. Increase the potency of True Thrust and Vorpal Thrust by 10% (New Sustain Damage Potency 165-220-330)
2. Increase The damage increase on Heavy Thrust to 20% keep the flank requirement.
3. Increase the potency of impuse drive to 200 from 180 keep rear requirement.
4. Take of the dot effect of Chaos Thrust and convert it into raw damage New potency 410 from 200
5. Remove the dot effect of phlebotemize increase the potency to 300 and add a 10% increase to attack speed that lasts 18 seconds and make it require the chaos thrust combo
6. reduce the CD of jump to 30 secs
If this seems too OP then nerf our AoE capabilities. The vast majority of DRGs prefer single target damage. DRGs have little utility besides more defense and hp but extremely gimped mag defense which is to be blunt bs. make drgs have the highest dps potential in both spike and sustained dps to compensate for out lack off utility and gimped mag defense.

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I imagine not all of these suggestions to be implemented since that would make Dragoon godlike.

All the DRGs really need is a simple potency increase in their attacks/skills and lower CDs on their jumps so their are more accessible. DRGs are all about the jumps so its odd that they would be so scarce and limited in use. Elusive jump also needs to be reduced to 30s CD -_-

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Originally Posted by Exstal

I imagine not all of these suggestions to be implemented since that would make Dragoon godlike.

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Well it will compensate our lack of utility outside of buffing a single other job for 6%.
Like kyrios said make us glass cannons. Since we don't have atk speed buffs like the other melee a significant increase in all our attack potency needs to be buffed to put us on par.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

A good drg is able to use these jumps to get from mob A to B in a flash and more time spent on a mob is more time for dps. With the lower gcd on these skills we have more tools to get from one mob to the next without having to walk. If shoulder tackle is on a 30 sec gcd (with stun!) why cant jump be on a 30 sec gcd?

I actually like the positionals despite it being annoying to land at times, but it shows how much skill is required to land HT on a moving target. Also SE if you can fix the HT buff so that you get it at the START of the attack animation instead of the end that would help.

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Actually Spineshatter Dive is the one you would want to compare to Shoulder Tackle. Jump doesn't close gaps. What needs to be done here is add gap close to Jump, remove stun from Spineshatter and increase potency, and either reduce Leg Sweep recast or put it on GCD. If we don't get a Silence ability at least give us Stun utility closer to PLD.

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Originally Posted by DenebPunkin

All the DRGs really need is a simple potency increase in their attacks/skills and lower CDs on their jumps so their are more accessible. DRGs are all about the jumps so its odd that they would be so scarce and limited in use. Elusive jump also needs to be reduced to 30s CD -_-

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I agree. It would be nice to use Elusive jump more than once at a time.

My two cents...

Jump: Delivers a jumping attack with a potency of 250. Returns you to your original position after the attack is made. Cannot be executed while bound. Recast: 30 Seconds.

Elusive Jump Executes a jump to a location 15 yalms behind you, while removing any Heavy or Bind effects. Additional Effect: Increases Movement Speed +15% Recast: 45 Seconds.

Spineshatter DiveDelivers a jumping attack with a potency of 200. Additional Effect: Stun Duration: 2s Cannot be executed while bound. Recast: 30 seconds.

Power Surge Increases the damage dealt by one Jump or Spineshatter Dive by 100% for 10s. Cooldown: 90 Seconds

Dragonfire Dive Removed From Game. (I've always hated this ability and find it worthless. I would much rather replace it with an ability that removes the recast on jumps, or make it so that it's damage is not "magical".

I believe a multitude of things need to be changed as well.

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Originally Posted by Amador

Dragonfire Dive Removed From Game. (I've always hated this ability and find it worthless. I would much rather replace it with an ability that removes the recast on jumps, or make it so that it's damage is not "magical".

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DFD's damage isn't magical. It has an element attached to it, but that means nothing for most intents and purposes. (Except negligible damage in PVP stemming from players' slightly varying elemental resistances)