Locked out of the Duty Finder.

This needs to be changed to not effect any type of parties. Too many times have I invited someone from FC after asking if anyone whats to do expert roulette I queue up then they are afk and I get penalized because they didn't click. How am I suppose to know right after they accepted my party invite they would afk, if you have a tank in the party you get a instant queue. Not to mention If I am joining a partial party for EX runs its hard to get everyone to click.

If you find yourself getting locked out due to the people you party with, maybe you should be more selective about who you party with.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taliph

If you find yourself getting locked out due to the people you party with, maybe you should be more selective about who you party with.

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Or they can change it so the game doesn't penalize a whole group of people for 1 persons mistake or not being ready.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Or they can change it so the game doesn't penalize a whole group of people for 1 persons mistake or not being ready.

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It's called ready check use it. Have yet to get one strike and I party with friends all the time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Or they can change it so the game doesn't penalize a whole group of people for 1 persons mistake or not being ready.

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Ready Check. You see an X next to them? Don't click.
If on VoIP software: "Are you ready?"
No Response? Don't click commence.

The issue is already solved.

This lock out is ridiculous.... I mean really, was ppl withdrawing every really that much of a problem? big whoop, it took you an extra 5 mins to queue for st or something. Thats about the only instance that was majorly affected by it, and even then, once your duty started popping, you were in within 5 mins max....

As it is right now, the df is more punishing/hardcore than their freaking content..... I make one error in the df as tank(don't untick a pervious dungeon), the df pops instantly, you see the mistake, oh wait you need to do the thing or face 30 min lock out, gg s.e. If only coil was as hardcore...

Hardcore withdrawal?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ZechsRaganrock

This lock out is awesome.... I mean really, ppl withdrawing really was that much of a problem. big whoop, it took you an extra 5-??mins to queue for st or something because it could shove you to the back of the queue. Thats about the only instance that was majorly affected by it, and even then, once your duty started popping, you were in within 5 mins unless you got shuffled....

As it is right now, the df is more punishing/hardcore than their freaking content if you fish the df..... I make three errors in the df as tank(don't untick a pervious dungeon), the df pops instantly, you see the mistake, oh wait you need to do the thing or face 30 min lock out on the third error, gg s.e. If only coil was as hardcore...

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Fixes in bold

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taliph

Fixes in bold

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incorrect, on the 3rd error you get locked out till the next day.
30 minutes per error before the 3rd

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

incorrect, on the 3rd error you get locked out till the next day.
30 minutes per error before the 3rd

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The patch notes as well as personal experience say you are wrong.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taliph

The patch notes as well as personal experience say you are wrong.

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many of my FC say I'm right. I don't think you have been punished for this lockout yet.

several of my FC got punished for being in party with someone who decided they had to do something without saying anything. the DF duty popped and they got locked out for 30 minutes. NONE of them had missed the button or clicked withdraw before that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

many of my FC say I'm right. I don't think you have been punished for this lockout yet.

several of my FC got punished for being in party with someone who decided they had to do something without saying anything. the DF duty popped and they got locked out for 30 minutes. NONE of them had missed the button or clicked withdraw before that.

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They got trolled, or aren't being honest with you... I have personally tested this lockout system. 3 strikes = first penalty, each strike after gets a penalty, strikes reset at 9am pst.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taliph

They got trolled, or aren't being honest with you... I have personally tested this lockout system. 3 strikes = first penalty, each strike after gets a penalty, strikes reset at 9am pst.

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and the time for the penalty doesn't change each time? cause some people including myself got the idea that you would be locked out for the day at some point.

Half hour penalty, the only thing "24 hours" about this system is the daily strike reset.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taliph

Half hour penalty, the only thing "24 hours" about this system is the daily strike reset.

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well this would explain why some are still trolling the DF. they just don't care about a 30 minute lockout.

if SE really wants to stop the trolls they need to redo this.
it should be personal punishment only.(meaning only the user who hits withdraw or doesn't click before the timer is up)
the 3rd time gets you 30 minutes.
the 4th gets you an hour.
the 5th gets you locked out till the reset.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

well this would explain why some are still trolling the DF. they just don't care about a 30 minute lockout.

if SE really wants to stop the trolls they need to redo this.
it should be personal punishment only.(meaning only the user who hits withdraw or doesn't click before the timer is up)
the 3rd time gets you 30 minutes.
the 4th gets you an hour.
the 5th gets you locked out till the reset.

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See you've just left a massive loop hole for the trolls with "It should be personal punishment only".

All they have to do is group up and then they have two free passes each at trolling the DF. So a group of two could do it four times before receiving a penalty, group of three could do it six times and so on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fellisin

See you've just left a massive loop hole for the trolls with "It should be personal punishment only".

All they have to do is group up and then they have two free passes each at trolling the DF. So a group of two could do it four times before receiving a penalty, group of three could do it six times and so on.

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I do not understand your thought process. People with penalty cannot queue in a party. How would anyone get a free pass to troll?

As it is currently innocent people are punsihed by lazy afk people who cannot even be bothered to type three letters or party leaders who can't be bothered with ready checks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by t-a-l-a-n-m-e-r-c-e-r

I do not understand your thought process. People with penalty cannot queue in a party. How would anyone get a free pass to troll?

As it is currently innocent people are punsihed by lazy afk people who cannot even be bothered to type three letters or party leaders who can't be bothered with ready checks.

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They only get a penalty after three strikes. Therefore they can withdraw two times without penalty before not being able to queue. Now if you have system that wildsprite suggests there is a loop hole for the trolls.

So three strikes you get a penalty which prevents you from queuing. Now to get round this if it not implemented as a joint strike would be rather simple. You have a party with three players we'll call them A,B & C. Now they have between them six free passes before a penalty will be applied to any off them.

They queue up. Player A does two troll pops. Doesn't get a penalty - no strikes against B or C. B repeats the process & then C repeats the process. So they just done six troll pops with no penalty against a single player due to no joint strike system. If they didn't care about lock out. They could push it to nine troll pops, with one member dropping from the party as each one gets a locked out. Its rather simple loop hole and relatively easy to see why its a joint strike system.

As for last point. Maybe people need not queue with lazy people and do ready checks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

and the time for the penalty doesn't change each time? cause some people including myself got the idea that you would be locked out for the day at some point.

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please tell me how one is supposed to miss/withdraw from queue more than 3 times if you get locked out for a full day? its already been explained, its a 30 minute lock out after the third time, and another 30 minutes for anymore withdraws after that third one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Ready Check. You see an X next to them? Don't click.
If on VoIP software: "Are you ready?"
No Response? Don't click commence.

The issue is already solved.

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You have control over this when you are the party leader yes. But most of the time when you are not the party leader you have no control over weather or not they ready check most groups I been in just queue up and don't realize someone is afk.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fellisin

They only get a penalty after three strikes. Therefore they can withdraw two times without penalty before not being able to queue. Now if you have system that wildsprite suggests there is a loop hole for the trolls.

So three strikes you get a penalty which prevents you from queuing. Now to get round this if it not implemented as a joint strike would be rather simple. You have a party with three players we'll call them A,B & C. Now they have between them six free passes before a penalty will be applied to any off them.

They queue up. Player A does two troll pops. Doesn't get a penalty - no strikes against B or C. B repeats the process & then C repeats the process. So they just done six troll pops with no penalty against a single player due to no joint strike system. If they didn't care about lock out. They could push it to nine troll pops, with one member dropping from the party as each one gets a locked out. Its rather simple loop hole and relatively easy to see why its a joint strike system.

As for last point. Maybe people need not queue with lazy people and do ready checks.

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And if they all queued up as individuals, they could each withdraw 3 times which results in the exact same 9 troll pops. If you only hand out strikes to the person that actually withdraws in a partial group the result is exactly the same. This loophole would not exist.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zumi

You have control over this when you are the party leader yes. But most of the time when you are not the party leader you have no control over weather or not they ready check most groups I been in just queue up and don't realize someone is afk.

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anyone in a party can start a ready check, not just leader.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaze3434

anyone in a party can start a ready check, not just leader.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Ready Check. You see an X next to them? Don't click.
If on VoIP software: "Are you ready?"
No Response? Don't click commence.

The issue is already solved.

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Ready check is a bandaid over a problem that shouldn't exist. Mistakes can still happen after a ready check and the leader doesn't need to wait for ready check to complete before queuing. Yet if someone else misclicks, has an emergency, goes afk or disconnects the whole group gets the strike even though most of the people in the group did everything they were supposed to. Group punishment is just asking for drama between casual players for no particularly good reason.

@Fellisin,

not hypothetical at all...! they come in an d sit down in a corner and do nothing waiting to be kicked, or they disconnect...or they log out which happens too

nothing hypothetical in this...it happens often...all wat this new lock out function did is increase this situation..but as said, all wanted this function, now you have got it, why complain of something the *democracy* wanted ? live with it and bare with it

before screaming, at times, is more sensible to think a bit further and try to foresee what the problem would be rather then* I want this because this annoyed me.*.without realizing the consequences....SE has given in to what the majority wanted, be happy you got what you asked for

Mei

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WHS

This might mean clearly watch who you party with. I agree with the way it is working is as intended. As other people in this thread have said, it should be even stricter but at least it's something. How do you prevent a party from constantly withdrawal from frontlines to
promote wintrading? you lock the whole party out that's doing it. Sorry but there is no other way.

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This attitude needs to stop. You don't need to punish 7 people because of one person. That 1 person hits withraw and gets locked out so the 7 people find someone who won't screw around and the new group of 8 queues and runs content. The assumption that they would queue endless relies entirely on them having a huge pool of people for that 8th player slot all who are willing to incur a penalty if their attempt fails. Only to be cycled for the next person in that event. This is a ridiculous scenario that won't be happening.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Camate

Also, in the event that you queue up to the Duty Finder as a party, if one party member withdraws when matched, it will count as a penalty towards all of the party members.

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This is a terrible, awful, no good very bad system. I do not appreciate losing a daily allowance because my teammate disconnected when the window popped. I don't appreciate my ability for personal enjoyment being placed directly in the hands of other players. Send the feedback to Yoshi. People don't like how draconian this system is and those that do haven't had to sit out for 30 minutes because of someone else's mistake yet. It is ridiculous that they ever thought this system would be acceptable. This isn't like Japan. We in the the rest of the world don't live in a super polite society where this type of system would easily work. We live in a messy world where things happen and people step away for a second due to babies, phone calls, etc. Punish them. I was sitting there. I accurately hit commence. I should no in any way be penalized. This system is terribad.

nope ....working as intended AND requested, the community as a whole wanted it, they asked for punishments to be handed over to those that withdraw. So let think for a moment, you group, 3 people, you queue in DF AS a group, one of the group withdraws it seems fair enough that the group as a whole gets punished, because by withdrawing he withdrew the entire group of three, leaving the 1 remaining or the other 4 or 21 depending without 3 people to replenish imagine that it was 1 tank 1 healer and 1 dps and you ahve the idea, said group may never recover and will have to start over with long waiting maybe. How fair is that to them ? why should they be penalized because someone of you withdrew by that withrawing the entire group ? in a way you are complaining of the exact same thing that people are complaining when the otehre dont confirm when window pop up.

The answer is simple, dont group with people that cant commit...or assume the consequences..I would say well done SE ! maybe this will force the community to stop asking for dumb things...

Kick should be removed from teh game and so should this penalty...the only penalty that should be introduced is abuse of kick in case kick is maintained..:THAT is a problem for everybody...for the rest, SE responded to a demand ....how can you complain to them now saying is wrong ? when the community wanted it ? majority rules !! this is ironic in a way and funny.



Mei

The "community" asked for a solution to the problem of people fishing the DF. This is SE's interpretation of that request and it's not a very good one. There are other ways to solve exploitation problems that don't include punishing your playerbase because they changed their mind about entering a dungeon. Making it impossible to fish the queue for in progress would have solved the problem of people fishing in progress. Leaving you in the party after you hit the Commence button regardless of what other people in the group have done would have solved the annoyance of commence popping 50 times. There were other ways, but I agree that many of the people in this very forum are so angry at life that they just want to see other players punished no matter what. It's actually rather sad.

For me, I'd much rather see players encouraged to continue playing the game instead of micromanaging their penalties.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

nope ....working as intended AND requested, the community as a whole wanted it, they asked for punishments to be handed over to those that withdraw.

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Please by all means point out the post where players requested to be punished for the actions of their teammates. I'd love for you to prove that someone actually requested this poorly thought through feature.

Asking for some sort of method to stop withdraws is not the same as specifically asking for what we got. You can't turn this around on the players since not one post I ever saw asked for a system like this. There are many other methods they could have used that wouldn't have been as bad as this. The poor implementation is on square and square alone.

@Souljacker.....oh I agree....It remains it was upon request of the community to PUNISH those that withdraw PRIOR to enter the dungeon that this solution was found, the demand was set programers found the best way TO THEM to meet requirements. Just because you dont lik eit doesnt make it wrong, well it is wrong but equally there are many that considers it right....

From your post I deduce that you were part of those that asked for this...too late now to complain....because of your demand (general your) we all have to deal with this, the community that found this dumb, I am part of it, say thank you for annoying us more, and the community that found this good, says thank you to you for helping them to put into place something totally dumb.

Mei

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

@Souljacker.....oh I agree....It remains it was upon request of the community to PUNISH those that withdraw PRIOR to enter the dungeon

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Not the entire party. It was never ever asked to punish the whole party. You should probably stop trying to defend this like what we got is what the players wanted because it obviously isn't.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

From your post I deduce that you were part of those that asked for this...too late now to complain....because of your demand (general your) we all have to deal with this, the community that found this dumb, I am part of it, say thank you for annoying us more, and the community that found this good, says thank you to you for helping them to put into place something totally dumb.

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What I asked for specifically is for the "in progress" part to be completely removed from the equation. Random roulette should be just that - a random dungeon you are filtered into based on the needs of the queue at the time. That's how it works in every other game that has a roulette like this, and they don't have the kinds of withdraw issues we see here because it's not possible to fish for in progress runs for a fast daily bonus. There is no need for a punishment beyond the deserter debuff for leaving an in progress dungeon. There is no need to leave "in progress" there for friends to help finish dungeons (which they can't do now anyway) because the queue would filter the next available person in, period. No picking and choosing whether you are willing to do a partial run or not. You get the random dungeon the queue needs you for, period. Want a fresh run? Queue the dungeon by itself. Don't like the one it put you in? Drop and eat the 30 minute deserter debuff. It's really not that complicated. Random queue should be random.

This was heavy-handed and implemented poorly, like many things SE has done in the past few months.

However, just because I also wanted a solution and suggested one doesn't mean I don't get to post here with my thoughts about what they actually did. I appreciate you continuing the dialogue here, but the "nah nah nah nah nah u got what u deser-erved" isn't really necessary. We all want the same thing - a shorter queue, more people playing the roulette, and fewer bad experiences.

The only problem with this new system is that a full party is penalized for a single persons actions. If that weren't the case then there really would be no cause for complaint in my opinion. Three chances is plenty if you were in control of your own fate but when other people are also able to control your fate, sometimes by mistake and sometimes with intentions to grief people, that's where the line gets drawn and this system becomes unacceptable.

Personally I haven't had any randoms screw me over and have yet to actually receive a lockout for this but I can definitely understand people's frustrations. People simply shouldn't be punished unless they commit the crime, even our own fucked up system of law will agree with that.

Also, to all the people acting like the changes are set in stone and will never be changed, get over yourselves. None of you are devs and you cannot tell the future. I can pretty much assure you that with enough bitching on the forums, anything can change.

It makes perfect sense if you queued with the person who clicked withdraw, or you could change who withdraws and instead of have 3 attempts at getting somewhere, you'll have 3x as many people in your party... I hope they don't change it, it's made getting in to some duties so much easier. Also you withdrew 2 times already? You only get locked out after the third so maybe don't withdraw early from duties or don't queue with people who do :)

I think maybe 3 is a little strict, but I still think being penalised as a group should stay.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ElectricRoses

You only get locked out after the third so maybe don't withdraw early from duties or don't queue with people who do :)

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A) You get a penalty after the second time.

B) I got a mark against me this week because our healer 90k'd when the queue popped. Please tell me how I should be punished for that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taliph

Fixes in bold

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Umm not really..... I had already been locked out due to not realizing other ppl withdrawing counts towards my own personal lock out strikes. I log back on the next day, make ONE mistake, and obviously because the reset hasn't happened yet, I am locked out again. You make me lol with calling the lock out awesome, you must be really into st... Your really into changing peoples posts around as well it seems....

If it took me three mistakes to get locked out the df, I would have said it took me three mistakes, stop confusing people by putting words in other peoples mouths.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

A) You get a penalty after the second time.

B) I got a mark against me this week because our healer 90k'd when the queue popped. Please tell me how I should be punished for that.

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You should not have been punished, this is the point of this thread, the mistakes of others should not affect the innocent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Darkoon

I was just locked out of the Duty Finder after a party member withdrew from the duty as soon as the duty was found.

I cannot control if another party member withdraws or not.
I should not be penalized for the actions taken by a different party member!

This feature needs to be removed at once as I am sure that I am not the only innocent victim that has been locked out of the Duty Finder by something that one cannot control!

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This happened to me as well. If this feature isn't removed by the end of the month, I'm quitting this game out of principle. This is absurd.

Thank you for all of your feedback regarding the new Duty Finder withdraw penalty system. I have been compiling your feedback and sending it off to the dev. team since its implementation. As others have suggested, we would like to encourage you to use the Ready Check tool before queuing up for a duty, especially when in a light party.

As a countermeasure for accidentally pressing the withdraw button once you've been matched with the Duty Finder, we are looking into adding a confirmation box that is displayed upon clicking withdraw, similar to that of when you receive a raise. While the implementation date is still undecided, I wanted to let you know the current status.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Grekumah

Thank you for all of your feedback regarding the new Duty Finder withdraw penalty system. I have been compiling your feedback and sending it off to the dev. team since its implementation. As others have suggested, we would like to encourage you to use the Ready Check tool before queuing up for a duty, especially when in a light party.

As a countermeasure for accidentally pressing the withdraw button once you've been matched with the Duty Finder, we are looking into adding a confirmation box that is displayed upon clicking withdraw, similar to that of when you receive a raise. While the implementation date is still undecided, I wanted to let you know the current status.

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I'm very glad that you responded, but if the answer is "adding another confirmation box" I have to say...

Really?

Ya I don't think a confirmation box is going to fix this, why not add in a feature like this.

When queuing up for a duty and say nature calls, for some especially if you want to wash your hands and not run back to the bathroom it takes longer than a minute to finish it all up.

What about adding in a feature that grants a 5 min auto-confirm duty when queuing up so that say you have to use the bathroom, and been queuing up for 30+ mins you don't have to run frantically back to make sure you don't miss it rather you put that auto-confirm toggle on and for those next 5 mins it will auto-confirm entry into the duty you are looking to get into. During that 5 min time frame I think offers a fair enough buffer to allow people not to miss out on a duty because of something they have to call to or do and the unluckiness of missing that 1 min window.

Rather you offer 5 mins, then when that time expires and no duty has been set to ready the player has to wait maybe 10-15 mins before they can do it again so that it can't be exploited in some way.