To Tanks Who only pull One Mob at a Time......

You refer to first timers in the low ARR dungeons or something?

IF so... they need time... also what is easy for you may be overwhelming for others untill they get used to it, go with patience...

I don't see anything wrong with tank pulling one or one group of mobs at a time. I don't want them to feel overwhelmed and die from it then cause the party to wipe from it.

I highly recommend Lucy Pyre’s video guide to tanking for any tank players who are still consistently doing really light dungeon pulls after reaching a high level.

Don’t like it when a DPS or healer pulls a few extra mobs from ahead? Beat them to it by pulling them first; problem solved.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

You refer to first timers in the low ARR dungeons or something?

IF so... they need time... also what is easy for you may be overwhelming for others untill they get used to it, go with patience...

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Na, they said from HW dungeons onwards.
I think for low ARR dungeons, or any ARR dungeon tbh, anyone understands if the tank single-pulls.

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Originally Posted by MellowMink

I highly recommend Lucy Pyre’s video guide to tanking for any tank players who are still consistently doing really light dungeon pulls after reaching a high level.

Don’t like it when a DPS or healer pulls a few extra mobs from ahead? Beat them to it by pulling them first; problem solved.

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Its literally a race with the dps to pull mobs. If you dont use sprint, a dps will pull for you. I have certain strategies for pulling certain dungeons efficiently, and dps pulling will fuck that up if im not fast as possible.

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Originally Posted by Stanazolol

Its literally a race with the dps to pull mobs. If you dont use sprint, a dps will pull for you. I have certain strategies for pulling certain dungeons efficiently, and dps pulling will fuck that up if im not fast as possible.

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Or be like me: in the event they do pull first, AoE what I can hit once then cycle through the aggro table and poke them with ranged atk one by one as I sprint my way to the next pack. They can take some beating and they probably be sweating as they wait worryingly for me to take the aggro back. And nah, they won’t die :3c Majority of pullers also tend to be smart enough to pull their new friends to your AoE anyway once you’ve made your stop.

Besides, I like it to think: more damage they take = less damage I take. Kind of like having my own mobile shields momentarily. Bonus point if that puller is a melee dps who pops their Arm’s Length!

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Or be like me: in the event they do pull first, AoE what I can hit once then cycle through the aggro table and poke them with ranged atk one by one as I sprint my way to the next pack. They can take some beating and they probably be sweating as they wait worryingly for me to take the aggro back. And nah, they won’t die :3c Majority of pullers also tend to be smart enough to pull their new friends to your AoE anyway once you’ve made your stop.

Besides, I like it to think: more damage they take = less damage I take. Kind of like having my own mobile shields momentarily. Bonus point if that puller is a melee dps who pops their Arm’s Length!

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Yea, i mean its no big deal, but i pull certain rooms in such a way where i never have to stop and can run the straightest line possible to the last group before the wall. When dps pull ahead, i sometimes have to stop for a second or go through the trouble of a tab and a tomahawk.

The worst is when a dps wont pull a mob to the pack. At the end of the day its usually just easier if i stay ahead. A group of people on the same page would be most optimal, but depending on random pug dps to help me pull more optimally usually makes it less so.

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Originally Posted by YukikoKurosawa

May I ask why? The dungeons are not exactly hard, and are designed, post HW, to be doable by pulling 2 groups of mobs at a time. There's no reason a healer should be struggling to keep you alive, and you have your mitigations to help stay alive.

I'd also like to know why you always ignore me and others who ask you to pull more. I always politely suggest you pull more than one mob, but never once has such a tank ever responded and just keeps pulling one mob at a time. It's not just a few instances, it's EVERY instance of a tank who only pulls one mob. You guys never respond and just keep one-mob pulling.

There is absolutely zero reason to pull one group at a time. It's extremely boring, takes away what slight challenge I may have had as the healer (forcing me to just dps basically because one mob isn't enough to really require healing generally), it's slow, makes the dungeon take twice as long. Why do you insist on tanking this way?

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most the time I pull multiple groups however there few things i will pull by themself just because they are annoying to deal with. There also the case of healer failed and I lose trust in them so i go slow

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Originally Posted by Stanazolol

Yea, i mean its no big deal, but i pull certain rooms in such a way where i never have to stop and can run the straightest line possible to the last group before the wall. When dps pull ahead, i sometimes have to stop for a second or go through the trouble of a tab and a tomahawk.

The worst is when a dps wont pull a mob to the pack. At the end of the day its usually just easier if i stay ahead. A group of people on the same page would be most optimal, but depending on random pug dps to help me pull more optimally usually makes it less so.

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Speaking as someone who mainly plays healer in group content; "Messy pulls" aren't really that big of a deal. I played last night with a newer tank that wasn't AoEing the entire time, or wasn't hitting everything, I don't know. But I would get a handful of mobs on me, the DPS would have a couple as well. Even groups that don't have those problems, if a DPS or healer gets tagged a few times while getting the mobs back to the tank it's not a big deal. Hell, DPS get an instant comm if they actually use Second Wind/Bloodbath in that scenario (I'm sure that will happen some day....).

I agree with you though, what IS a problem is DPS that don't pull the mobs they have to the tank. Tank should be paying attention and should be able to cycle to the enemy and pull it but it is much easier and better for the team if the DPS is paying attention and pulls it in to the tank.

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Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

...

I agree with you though, what IS a problem is DPS that don't pull the mobs they have to the tank. Tank should be paying attention and should be able to cycle to the enemy and pull it but it is much easier and better for the team if the DPS is paying attention and pulls it in to the tank.

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If I'm healer and get some aggro, The first thing I do is run towards the tank in the hope he gets the aggro while i keep an eye on everybody's health. But nowadays i really don't care much to the behaviours of my team. Since they don't mess too much, I just want to finish the thing and get away with my game. I never expect perfection especialy from random players :)

I try to condition my healers from the first pull. I w2w, put the gloves on, and then wait until i hear the audio queue for a spell being cast on me, and then pop bloodwhetting/RI. If they're nervous or new or don't realize warriors can solo heal, it usually eases them up. Some people are just a curebot tho... Every duty finder dungeon i go into I always hope I get the healer that lets me go absolutely buckwild and handle the pulls myself, but there are very few healers that have the nuts required to let their tank get to 5% and hold off on the "oh shit" button.

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Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

Speaking as someone who mainly plays healer in group content; "Messy pulls" aren't really that big of a deal. I played last night with a newer tank that wasn't AoEing the entire time, or wasn't hitting everything, I don't know. But I would get a handful of mobs on me, the DPS would have a couple as well. Even groups that don't have those problems, if a DPS or healer gets tagged a few times while getting the mobs back to the tank it's not a big deal. Hell, DPS get an instant comm if they actually use Second Wind/Bloodbath in that scenario (I'm sure that will happen some day....).

I agree with you though, what IS a problem is DPS that don't pull the mobs they have to the tank. Tank should be paying attention and should be able to cycle to the enemy and pull it but it is much easier and better for the team if the DPS is paying attention and pulls it in to the tank.

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Its more the speed and ease of it than anything else. Easier to get the mobs all in one place for aoe if I do it myself most of the time. If whatever DPS is doing helps that, then great, but more often than not its just unnecessary at best and slows us down at worst, especially if a dps is going 1v1 with a mob halfway back down the corridor. Im not worried about them helping me soak damage or the healer being unable to heal a messy pull, thats rarely a problem. If I use cooldowns, dont stand in aoe, and still have my oh shit button, we can survive the apocalypse.

While it can be slow, tanks run the show.

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Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

Speaking as someone who mainly plays healer in group content; "Messy pulls" aren't really that big of a deal. I played last night with a newer tank that wasn't AoEing the entire time, or wasn't hitting everything, I don't know. But I would get a handful of mobs on me, the DPS would have a couple as well. Even groups that don't have those problems, if a DPS or healer gets tagged a few times while getting the mobs back to the tank it's not a big deal. Hell, DPS get an instant comm if they actually use Second Wind/Bloodbath in that scenario (I'm sure that will happen some day....).

I agree with you though, what IS a problem is DPS that don't pull the mobs they have to the tank. Tank should be paying attention and should be able to cycle to the enemy and pull it but it is much easier and better for the team if the DPS is paying attention and pulls it in to the tank.

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Its more the speed and ease of it than anything else. Easier to get the mobs all in one place for aoe if I do it myself most of the time. If whatever DPS is doing helps that, then great, but more often than not its just unnecessary at best and slows us down at worst, especially if a dps is going 1v1 with a mob halfway back down the corridor. Im not worried about them helping me soak damage or the healer being unable to heal a messy pull, thats rarely a problem. If I use cooldowns, dont stand in aoe, and still have my oh shit button, we can survive the apocalypse.

As a tank I have often had to deal with people who wanted me to tank everything and then when they wipe hold me responsible so I can understand that some tanks are fed up and prefer to just tank 1 mob we tend to blame the tank for everything unfortunately

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Originally Posted by HanWenqing

As a tank I have often had to deal with people who wanted me to tank everything and then when they wipe hold me responsible so I can understand that some tanks are fed up and prefer to just tank 1 mob we tend to blame the tank for everything unfortunately

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Most people want tanks to w2w because unless you're trying to solo heal from the tank position, it's very easy to cycle your mitigations and manage threats without dying. The only thing easier than tanking is healing from the healing position.

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Originally Posted by justausername

You know. Some of us dont actually LIKE tanking and just want to get all the classes to 90. Thats a thing. So if you don't like it, leave. Odds are at least one other person in the party is from my FC if not 2. Sometimes in a small FC we wont get 3 others online at the same time. So just let me level in peace and get it over with, I'm already considering a job skip but I can't afford it thanks.

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Then dont play with randoms in dutyfinder. No one wants your laziness and bad takes.

The 'narrow scope of vision' is an astronomically huge problem in our society right now, especially with the advance of social media and the internet.

So, to state unequivocally for the record:

Just because you can do something at skill level X does not mean anyone else can do that same thing at all, at any skill level.

Your skill level is yours and yours alone. You have absolutely, positively zero information with which to rate the skill level of a stranger and subsequently expect them to behave a certain way.

That's straight up insanity, and people unfortunately do this all day.

"I'm scared without a gun so everyone needs access to a gun."
"I work 120 hours a week so everyone should work 120 hours a week. Lazy homeless trash."
"This thing makes me angry. Everyone should hate it. Cancel it. Ban it."
"I wouldn't personally allow this to be done to my body, so no one can do it! Banned."

...and yes...

"I can play this game with my eyes closed, drunk, with both hands tied behind my back. And this random dude can't even pull two packs?!?!"

Insanity, folks. Think about it.

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Originally Posted by DBriggs304

While it can be slow, tanks run the show.

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Confucius say...

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Originally Posted by Breakbeat

The 'narrow scope of vision' is an astronomically huge problem in our society right now, especially with the advance of social media and the internet.

So, to state unequivocally for the record:

Just because you can do something at skill level X does not mean anyone else can do that same thing at all, at any skill level.

Your skill level is yours and yours alone. You have absolutely, positively zero information with which to rate the skill level of a stranger and subsequently expect them to behave a certain way.

That's straight up insanity, and people unfortunately do this all day.

"I'm scared without a gun so everyone needs access to a gun."
"I work 120 hours a week so everyone should work 120 hours a week. Lazy homeless trash."
"This thing makes me angry. Everyone should hate it. Cancel it. Ban it."
"I wouldn't personally allow this to be done to my body, so no one can do it! Banned."

...and yes...

"I can play this game with my eyes closed, drunk, with both hands tied behind my back. And this random dude can't even pull two packs?!?!"

Insanity, folks. Think about it.

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This would be fine if the bar for tanking wasn't subterranean. Tanking is so easy I can explain how to do it for every tank right now. Put stance on, pop sprint before aggroing the first mob pack (optional), reach the wall, grabbing mobs on the way, and apply arm's length + reprisal. After 10 seconds, apply your 30% mitigation. After 10 seconds, apply your 10% mitigation. After 5 seconds, apply rampart. Use AoE abilities in between. That rotation is good enough to get you through a majority of w2w pulls without engaging with anything else and just relying on your healer to pick up the slack. It's not an issue of "Why aren't they as good as me?!" It's an issue of, "The developers have been intentionally making this role easier and easier for the last 2 expansions, how are we still having these issues?"

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Originally Posted by game_enjoyer

This would be fine if the bar for tanking wasn't subterranean. Tanking is so easy I can explain how to do it for every tank right now. Put stance on, pop sprint before aggroing the first mob pack (optional), reach the wall, grabbing mobs on the way, and apply arm's length + reprisal. After 10 seconds, apply your 30% mitigation. After 10 seconds, apply your 10% mitigation. After 5 seconds, apply rampart. Use AoE abilities in between. That rotation is good enough to get you through a majority of w2w pulls without engaging with anything else and just relying on your healer to pick up the slack. It's not an issue of "Why aren't they as good as me?!" It's an issue of, "The developers have been intentionally making this role easier and easier for the last 2 expansions, how are we still having these issues?"

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I wish you now explain us how to dps the packs, as thats the part I see need the most help.

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Originally Posted by DBriggs304

While it can be slow, tanks run the show.

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While it can be slow, tanks run the show, but oh no, healer mana is looking low, DPS is low, or things are dying slow, and I can't go no moe, and our Cooldowns are a no-show.
Do I really set the pace? Or must I embrace, that this is a team race. and we all have a place, in setting the pace.
For there is no puller, only those with lifebars fuller, whom's we must delete before we are beat.
who will last? if we wipe, it will be in the past. if we win, we can raise our chins,
we all set the pace, for it's not one person's place.

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Originally Posted by Stanazolol

I wish you now explain us how to dps the packs, as thats the part I see need the most help.

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oh yes thats true. people think dps jobs dont have any responsibilities, thats why they slack of. and saying something in that direction is the most evil thing to do. yet its such an important part.

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Originally Posted by Asari5

oh yes thats true. people think dps jobs dont have any responsibilities, thats why they slack of. and saying something in that direction is the most evil thing to do. yet its such an important part.

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And you notice the difference hugely in a run, when dps are good vs when they aren't, more than tank and healer being good. If packs melt like chocolate in the sun, you barely even need mitigation and heals at all.
You notice that in expert roulette, nvm the gear thing, but even at equal gear you notice how with people who knowtheir rotation sprint doesn't evencome off cd by the time your pull is dead and you run to the next pack. Imagine how much faster and smoother levelling dungeons would be with good dps.

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Originally Posted by JacobNewblood

While it can be slow, tanks run the show, but oh no, healer mana is looking low, DPS is low, or things are dying slow, and I can't go no moe, and our Cooldowns are a no-show.
Do I really set the pace? Or must I embrace, that this is a team race. and we all have a place, in setting the pace.
For there is no puller, only those with lifebars fuller, whom's we must delete before we are beat.
who will last? if we wipe, it will be in the past. if we win, we can raise our chins,
we all set the pace, for it's not one person's place.

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if this happens even with the tank only pulling single packs, what do you think pulling more packs would do?
You can't even deal with one. Tank made the right call on this case xD

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Originally Posted by DBriggs304

While it can be slow, tanks run the show.

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Found the YPYT.

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Originally Posted by Breakbeat

-snip off topic wrong arguments-
...and yes...

"I can play this game with my eyes closed, drunk, with both hands tied behind my back. And this random dude can't even pull two packs?!?!"

Insanity, folks. Think about it.

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Tanking 1 group or 2 groups or 10 groups in a dungeon DOES NOT CHANGE WHAT YOU DO AS A TANK. Activate mitigations, use AoEs. If there's 2 mobs or 20 that's what you're doing. The more mobs you grab the EASIER it is for EVERYONE. If I hit Rampart with 20 mobs hitting me, it is 10 TIMES more powerful (i.e. mitigating 10 times the damage) than if I hit it with 2 mobs hitting me. If all of the part members are AE 20 mobs, those abilities are 10 times more powerful than whenever you have 2 mobs.

Stop acting like grabbing more mobs makes it more difficult to hit that 2 button AoE combo for some reason. The ONLY person that has a significantly more difficult time is the healer.

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Originally Posted by hagare

if this happens even with the tank only pulling single packs, what do you think pulling more packs would do?
You can't even deal with one. Tank made the right call on this case xD

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Not at all. Pulling single packs means that your party stays in combat more often which means that the healer's mana won't regenerate fast enough. Healers don't run out of mana because they have to heal, they run out of mana because of long fight times. Even if DPS are shit, pulling 2 groups is still going to be better than 1.

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Not at all. Pulling single packs means that your party stays in combat more often which means that the healer's mana won't regenerate fast enough. Healers don't run out of mana because they have to heal, they run out of mana because of long fight times. Even if DPS are shit, pulling 2 groups is still going to be better than 1.

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Honestly, if we're talking standard dungeons, a healer running out of mana means they're still learning how to use their toolkit. Either they're spamming high-mana heals unnecessarily instead of using more efficient spells, or they're not using their mana regen ability/abilities, or both. The length of any given fight is irrelevant for someone with a good idea of how their toolkit works, since they won't run out anyway.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Honestly, if we're talking standard dungeons, a healer running out of mana means they're still learning how to use their toolkit. Either they're spamming high-mana heals unnecessarily instead of using more efficient spells, or they're not using their mana regen ability/abilities, or both. The length of any given fight is irrelevant for someone with a good idea of how their toolkit works, since they won't run out anyway.

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The problem with large pulls that take a while to burn down isn't MP so much as running out of CDs. Especially if we already had to use some when the tank stopped to equalize things. I think the person you quoted doesn't realize that with small packs, less CDs are used and usually less MP because we don't have to heal that much unless the team is struggling on the smaller pulls. I think my worst time as a healer is when a tank pulls big, dps is very low, and both the tank and I run out of CDs. It's better in my experience to pull small in those situations. If there's the trifecta of a squishy tank, even moreso.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Honestly, if we're talking standard dungeons, a healer running out of mana means they're still learning how to use their toolkit. Either they're spamming high-mana heals unnecessarily instead of using more efficient spells, or they're not using their mana regen ability/abilities, or both. The length of any given fight is irrelevant for someone with a good idea of how their toolkit works, since they won't run out anyway.

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Your scenario definitely is the higher possibility, but it's still not the only one. If you run out of your resources/cooldowns you will run out of mana shortly after. There is an exponential increase in power whenever you pull more groups.

Mitigation cool downs become more powerful
Offensive buffs become so much more powerful

If people use a decent number of their cooldowns on the first pack, the second pack is going to take longer to kill, you're not doing to have the cool downs (mit/heals/offensive) you need, you're possibly not going to have regenerated enough resources, etc.

Certain abilities (mainly resource based heals) are a big source of MP regeneration for healers. So if you don't have them not only are you losing out on a "free heal", but you're also not gaining MP and instead losing MP. That's another exponential issue.

If I'm playing SGE and have 6000 MP left, I could:

Use Druochole for an Addersgall for 700 cure potency and end up with 6700 MP
Use Physis for a HoT and stay at 6000MP
Use Eukrasian Diagnosis for 840 cure potency and end up with 5100 MP

If I don't have the resource for Druochole or the cooldown for Physis, then I am 1600 MP "worse off" than if I did. The game definitely makes it easy to stay in the realm of "Everything is Ok", but that's partially because of the exponential gains in the "efficient" way of playing the game (i.e. wall to wall pulls). Once you start peeling away certain efficiencies, you can really get to "Everything is not ok" fairly fast.

BUT, misplaying is still the more likely reason that a healer will run out of mana, yes.

I know i already said it:
1. Talk with your party about WHAT YOU want
2. if the tank plays diffrently just vote kick or leave or get kicked for diffrence in playstyle

Not hard, not special.

I know when I started playing FFXIV, I did single pulling on Sastasha on my first time because I did not know how dungeons were like in the game (I played WoW WotLK only) but after realizing that Tanking is super simple and you have the tools to be hard to kill, it immediately clicked that to get the best out of the fights is to take more.

What baffles me is that it never clicked to most people and they still tip toe at later levels even with a bigger range of Mit tools at their disposal. I mean jesus people did you use training wheels until your mid teens? Why are you still playing like you are still on your training wheels in lvl70+ content?

Honestly, I would rather tanks just pull what they/the party can handle, even if it's one group. In most instances pulling wall to wall is totally fine. I've literally never died to a mob in any level 90 dungeon, for example. There are some dungeons, like Hollminster Switch in my experience, that seem to challenge a lot of people. Even then, I've had tons of runs that went fine in there pulling wall to wall. So, if the tank feels like they can get it done with the party they're in and they've done it many times before, go for it. If they feel uncertain or are new to that instance, I would rather they pull smaller. It's way more inconvenient to wipe than to just do smaller pulls, imo. The tanks that take on more than they can handle twice in a row are the ones that I really dread, not the ones that pull small. I've had tanks die to three or four mobs but never just consider going smaller and it's such an unpleasant experience. It drags on forever and the time spent running back through the half empty dungeon is much more boring than longer time spent fighting smaller groups. But as long as the pulls are a manageable size for the party you have, I'm basically fine with whatever.

To be honest, though, I use the duty finder for roulettes and general leveling very often and I rarely have terrible experiences. I feel like sometimes people exaggerate how often things go completely sideways in there.

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Originally Posted by game_enjoyer

This would be fine if the bar for tanking wasn't subterranean. Tanking is so easy I can explain how to do it for every tank right now. Put stance on, pop sprint before aggroing the first mob pack (optional), reach the wall, grabbing mobs on the way, and apply arm's length + reprisal. After 10 seconds, apply your 30% mitigation. After 10 seconds, apply your 10% mitigation. After 5 seconds, apply rampart. Use AoE abilities in between. That rotation is good enough to get you through a majority of w2w pulls without engaging with anything else and just relying on your healer to pick up the slack. It's not an issue of "Why aren't they as good as me?!" It's an issue of, "The developers have been intentionally making this role easier and easier for the last 2 expansions, how are we still having these issues?"

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This post is a typical example of "why simplifying a job was never a good idea, and why over-simplification makes you less lax about mistakes".

That said: you are playing with humans. Not bots. That's why we keep having these problems, and there's nothing else to understand. Agree to be a little flexible. Being a good player isn't just, as you just pointed out, knowing how to organise your mitigations. That part is simple. What is less simple is adapting to players you have just met. The tank is more of an optimizer than a common punching bag (which is why I actually find your description very poor).

On a personal note, the ones that piss me off the most are the people who are so buried in their "wall-to-wall" mentality that they end up causing wipes. In fact, some are so convinced of this religion that they don't even ask the question "why is the tank slowing down here". Small reference to a group I met yesterday, on my alt, where a dps thought it was a good idea to pull more when I had no CDs left. The same dps, of course, who was doing mold damage and forcing me to slam more on each pack, because the mobs weren't melting fast enough.

I'm seeing more and more of that these days - and they're rarely the best players. Which doesn't surprise me at all. They're also the most common, because in reality players who pull a pack by a pack are rare in the higher levels, despite all the complaining about it.

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Originally Posted by leanansi

Honestly, I would rather tanks just pull what they/the party can handle, even if it's one group. In most instances pulling wall to wall is totally fine. I've literally never died to a mob in any level 90 dungeon, for example. There are some dungeons, like Hollminster Switch in my experience, that seem to challenge a lot of people. Even then, I've had tons of runs that went fine in there pulling wall to wall. So, if the tank feels like they can get it done with the party they're in and they've done it many times before, go for it. If they feel uncertain or are new to that instance, I would rather they pull smaller. It's way more inconvenient to wipe than to just do smaller pulls, imo. The tanks that take on more than they can handle twice in a row are the ones that I really dread, not the ones that pull small. I've had tanks die to three or four mobs but never just consider going smaller and it's such an unpleasant experience. It drags on forever and the time spent running back through the half empty dungeon is much more boring than longer time spent fighting smaller groups. But as long as the pulls are a manageable size for the party you have, I'm basically fine with whatever.

To be honest, though, I use the duty finder for roulettes and general leveling very often and I rarely have terrible experiences. I feel like sometimes people exaggerate how often things go completely sideways in there.

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Even in holminster switch ill pull wall to wall, you can still clear with newbies. Might need a holmgang or two, but thats what its there for.

Ill default pull wall to wall always unless im asked not to, and in that case im fine with it. If youre going to play an mmo, you need to accommodate other players, and of it aggravates you too much, talk your way out of it or leave. Thats just part of it.

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Originally Posted by Merrigan

This post is a typical example of "why simplifying a job was never a good idea, and why over-simplification makes you less lax about mistakes".

That said: you are playing with humans. Not bots. That's why we keep having these problems, and there's nothing else to understand. Agree to be a little flexible. Being a good player isn't just, as you just pointed out, knowing how to organise your mitigations. That part is simple. What is less simple is adapting to players you have just met. The tank is more of an optimizer than a common punching bag (which is why I actually find your description very poor).

On a personal note, the ones that piss me off the most are the people who are so buried in their "wall-to-wall" mentality that they end up causing wipes. In fact, some are so convinced of this religion that they don't even ask the question "why is the tank slowing down here". Small reference to a group I met yesterday, on my alt, where a dps thought it was a good idea to pull more when I had no CDs left. The same dps, of course, who was doing mold damage and forcing me to slam more on each pack, because the mobs weren't melting fast enough.

I'm seeing more and more of that these days - and they're rarely the best players. Which doesn't surprise me at all. They're also the most common, because in reality players who pull a pack by a pack are rare in the higher levels, despite all the complaining about it.

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if u can't pull w2w post 50 that's just u being bad and nothing to do with anyone else

I tend to be flexible with how I run dungeons because you never know what you're going to get.

As a rule of thumb, especially during X.0, the first time I run a dungeon I only pull one trash pack at a time to make sure there's no nasty surprises waiting. Just like how you need to have some patience fighting new Trial / Raid bosses and clearing Alliance raids, taking things slow and steady on a first run is a prudent course of action.

Past that, it's important to be flexible. Sometimes you get a party that's not so skilled or geared, and wall to wall pulls aren't the smartest thing to do. (I got Aitiascope the other day; one DPS had mid-leveling gear, the other wasn't in anything better than Cryptlurker.) Just roll with the punches.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

The problem with large pulls that take a while to burn down isn't MP so much as running out of CDs. Especially if we already had to use some when the tank stopped to equalize things. I think the person you quoted doesn't realize that with small packs, less CDs are used and usually less MP because we don't have to heal that much unless the team is struggling on the smaller pulls. I think my worst time as a healer is when a tank pulls big, dps is very low, and both the tank and I run out of CDs. It's better in my experience to pull small in those situations. If there's the trifecta of a squishy tank, even moreso.

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I think thats why there are barriers/ gates in the games dungeon design now . Its the perfect amount you can pull that works well with cooldowns for the majority. Its not over the top that "most" people cant handle and it stops over zealous tanks over pulling because they expect anyone they encounter to be used to it , it reduces the cooldown burn out from under performing dps from making fights go on to long and reduces careless healers running out of mana that over heal when they didnt need to .



typically



Thats not to say none of the above ever happen stil, but Id imagine that they looked at average performances and the min maxers and took a design choice to allow 2-3 packs at most before a gate blocks any further traversal until they are killed , and of course its much easier to decide on the HP pools and damage output when they know the max that can be in combat with gating.



I like pulling big on my warrior , the blood whetting and crit aoe damage style almost calls for it as small pulls on a warrior kills a tonne of its performance but if there were no gates in dungeons these days it almost certainly would cause issues with under performers or those that dont care if people cant handle massive pulls and go ahead anyways regardless of others , both are bad situations on the normal content

Honestly I just enjoy pulling one group at a time and taking my time, I truly have more fun that way. I don’t see the need to rush, we have over an hour to finish the run, that doesn’t mean I wanna sit in a dungeon for an hour, but we don’t have to blitz it in less than 10 min either. Rushing and W2W pulls are annoying to me, I’m also a casual player that takes frequent breaks after finishing an expansion. So the fact they added npcs into story content is perfect for someone like me. I can play whatever class I want, how I want, and whatever speed I want without getting flack for it. And when I run content alone with npcs it still only takes me like 15-20 min going slow at one pull at a time. I’m just not in a rush, that’s just how I enjoy the game. So basically to answer that first persons question, if I was still doing it with ppl, why do I only pull 1 group? It is because I enjoy the game like that, slow and steady, taking in the designs, checking every path that’s available. Other may think that’s boring and the base game dungeons or boring too, but to me their fun, and I enjoy that style of play. To each their own.

So let's check this out.

• 3.5 year necro
• Low post count
• Typical buzz phrases "I'm a casual", "when I play group content everybody else has to adjust to my needs", ...

Good morning, little troll. I wonder how many will take the bait.

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Originally Posted by CptBraden

Honestly I just enjoy pulling one group at a time and taking my time, I truly have more fun that way. I don’t see the need to rush, we have over an hour to finish the run, that doesn’t mean I wanna sit in a dungeon for an hour, but we don’t have to blitz it in less than 10 min either. Rushing and W2W pulls are annoying to me, I’m also a casual player that takes frequent breaks after finishing an expansion. So the fact they added npcs into story content is perfect for someone like me. I can play whatever class I want, how I want, and whatever speed I want without getting flack for it. And when I run content alone with npcs it still only takes me like 15-20 min going slow at one pull at a time. I’m just not in a rush, that’s just how I enjoy the game. So basically to answer that first persons question, if I was still doing it with ppl, why do I only pull 1 group? It is because I enjoy the game like that, slow and steady, taking in the designs, checking every path that’s available. Other may think that’s boring and the base game dungeons or boring too, but to me their fun, and I enjoy that style of play. To each their own.

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what's the point of necroing an almost half a decade old thread?