why so much players have a rush mentality

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

Ah, so if they don't die because of it, it is no longer an issue. That even says that a penalty -may- be possible if it causes a wipe. But as the healer doing it is going to obviously heal the pull, it would only become an issue if the tank refuses to pick up the mobs. So then, would it not be the tank griefing?

Like I said, it's annoying. If you don't like someone doing it, tell them. As you say communication is so important, after all. Running to the GMs because someone rescued you into a group of mobs as a tank, and then proceeded to keep you alive would be quite silly.

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I suggest players use the chat function to communicate their intent! Both the tank choosing to not pick up the adds and the healer rescuing the tank into AoEs! Here's the secret... It's both griefing! However, I think one would have a harder time proving the tank was actually griefing by choosing to not pick up the adds they were rescued into, as opposed to a healer who rescued a tank into them. A lot of players don't use AoEs in this game, while that is entirely not the purpose of rescue.

That's hilarious. I am not arguing for myself, I am arguing this on principle, after rolling my eyes while skimming these "discussions". Unfortunately, I am not part of one or the other "side's" hiveminds. I don't get rescued into adds, as I am always ahead of the party, pulling as much as possible, or as much as I believe is possible for my current party. Nor have I EVER reported someone in-game. I should say, I think I may have been rescued back at least a couple times, when I was pulling ahead. Would a healer rescuing a tank away from pulling more be considered griefing, or is that also a good means of "communication"? Either way, even it being done in that case isn't as bad as being pulled into active groups.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I suggest players using the chat function to communicate their intent! Both the tank choosing to not pick up the adds and the healer rescuing the tank into AoEs! Here's the secret... It's both griefing! However, I think one would have a harder time proving the tank was actually griefing by choosing to not pick up the adds they were rescued into, as opposed to a healer who rescued a tank into them. A lot of players don't use AoEs in this game. That is entirely not the purpose of rescue.

That's hilarious. I am not arguing for myself, I am arguing this on principle, after rolling my eyes while skimming these "discussions". Unfortunately, I am not part of one or the other "sides" hiveminds. I don't get rescued into adds, as I am always ahead of the party, pulling as much as possible, or as much as I believe is possible for my current party. Nor have I EVER reported someone in game. I should say, I think I may have been rescued back at least a couple times, when I was pulling ahead. Would a healer rescuing a tank away from pulling more be considered griefing, or is that also a good means of "communication"? Either way, even it being done in that case isn't as bad as being pulled into active groups.

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The only way I'd ever consider a use of rescue being griefing is if you use it to pull someone off an edge or into aoe, essentially to kill them. All other uses are communication. And yes if a healer used rescue on me to pull me away from getting a bigger pack, then I would take that as them saying they want smaller pulls.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

The only way I'd ever consider a use of rescue being griefing is if you use it to pull someone off an edge or into aoe, essentially to kill them. All other uses are communication. And yes if a healer used rescue on me to pull me away from getting a bigger pack, then I would take that as them saying they want smaller pulls.

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I can respect any user trying to be consistent. ;) Would you then pull one pack at a time since the healer "communicated" what they would prefer? Unfortunately, a tank getting pulled into an active group of adds doesn't have that luxury, and is usually caught entirely by surprise; unwilling or unready.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I suggest players use the chat function to communicate their intent!

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I guess you missed the entire part where not everyone has proper use of the chat function. While chat is available to everyone, its not feasible for everyone. You try typing on console during combat. See how far you get. Not everyone has or is going to buy a keyboard solely for this game. There are other ways to communicate. Covered all the points. You should be caught up now

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

I guess you missed the entire part where not everyone has proper use of the chat function. While chat is available to everyone, its not feasible for everyone. You try typing on console during combat. See how far you get. Not everyone has or is going to buy a keyboard solely for this game. There are other ways to communicate. Covered all the points. You should be caught up now

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How about before combat then? Or does the healer immediately have to set off sprinting and pulling the tank into adds, before they can even properly attempt to communicate in the first place? This sort of reasoning is just an excuse, in my opinion. Either way, EVEN IF they couldn't chat, rescue being used in this way is not a proper form of communication. It is a skill meant to save players from mechanics, NOT pull people into them.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I can respect any user trying to be consistent. ;) Would you then pull one pack at a time since the healer "communicated" what they would prefer? Unfortunately, a tank getting pulled into an active group of adds doesn't have that luxury, and is usually caught entirely by surprise; unwilling or unready.

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Probably. At that point I'd ask in chat if they want smaller pulls. Either way I've never had a healer do that once so it would be a new scenario. I have however had healers pull me closer to mobs even though I was already running to them. I assumed they did that just to help me move faster. Also you normally can't pull a tank all the way to an active group of mobs.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

How about before combat then? Or does the healer immediately have to set off sprinting and pulling the tank into adds, before they can even properly attempt to communicate in the first place? This sort of reasoning is just an excuse, in my opinion. Either way, EVEN IF they couldn't chat, rescue being used in this way is not a proper form of communication. It is a skill meant to save players from mechanics, NOT pull people into them.

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The reason this is dumb is because in most dungeons, people assume big pulls. That's probably the reason this thread is here in the first place, OP noticed a trend. Going fast is seen by many to be the default. Going slow is abnormal. At least be able to recognize that when you que up.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

The reason this is dumb is because in most dungeons, people assume big pulls. That's probably the reason this thread is here in the first place, OP noticed a trend. Going fast is seen by many to be the default. Going slow is abnormal. At least be able to recognize that when you que up.

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Exactly this. Fast has become the default. If anyone should be communicating pace, it should be the person wanting to go slower. The tank who has no confidence, or the healer watching Netflix. The outliers who don’t want to do with the majority has been doing since the first week of this game

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Exactly this. Fast has become the default. If anyone should be communicating pace, it should be the person wanting to go slower. The tank who has no confidence, or the healer watching Netflix. The outliers who don’t want to do with the majority has been doing since the first week of this game

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Then why exactly would a healer need to not only run ahead of the tank and pull for them (as it's the "default"), but also rescue them into a group of adds? I'd think the healer acting as the tank in this case is communicating their intent well enough, prior to a rescue, and if it was actually default, they wouldn't have to pull them in the first place. The player who would need to communicate that they would like to go slower, never gets the chance to do so, especially if they have these supposed troubles with the chat function. I digress.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Then why exactly would a healer need to not only run ahead of the tank and pull for them (as it's the "default"), but also rescue them into a group of adds? I'd think the healer acting as the tank in this case is communicating their intent well enough, prior to a rescue, and if it was actually default, they wouldn't have to pull them in the first place. The player who would need to communicate that they would like to go slower, never gets the chance to do so, especially if they have these supposed troubles with the chat function. I digress.

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Because the healer doesn't know other wise what the tank in question is doing. Is their gear bad, do they want to go slow, are they trying to figure out what we can handle, are they a bot? Pulling one pack and only one pack can mean a lot of things. So rescuing them further or pulling mobs to them is a fair way to see how to proceed.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Then why exactly would a healer need to not only run ahead of the tank and pull for them (as it's the "default"), but also rescue them into a group of adds? I'd think the healer acting as the tank in this case is communicating their intent well enough, prior to a rescue, and if it was actually default, they wouldn't have to pull them in the first place. The player who would need to communicate that they would like to go slower, never gets the chance to do so, especially if they have troubles with the chat function. I digress.

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My comment is specifically towards your whole using the chat function. Not about healers running ahead. I like how you cherry pick and have your own narrative. Was already said to you that you can’t pull a tank into the next group of active mobs. In that direction? Sure. But not all the way to the mobs. I’m my opinion, as is your qualifier, rescuing a tank in one direction or the other as a means to communicate without the chat function is not griefing. It’s a tug in the direction of the healers desires, whether it be more or less mobs.
So unless the healer was previously blasting the tank, it’ll be hard to prove the intent is ill willed. It’s not griefing to communicate with whatever means you can. If you can’t understand signs, or non vocal communication, thats on you, choosing to ignore it because they didn’t use the chat function. You are neglecting their attempts at telling you what they want because of some stance on right or wrong you have. Not everyone sees it as you do. The person using those means may see it as them trying to talk to you without the use of words themselves. But you want to take it as some preconceived notion of they are just being mean

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

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Then I'd like users to reflect, and stop faulting tanks for killing healers and DPS who pull for them them, as they are "communicating" their intent, in a very similar fashion. It'll be hard to prove the players were killed out of ill-will, unless the tank was previously blasting the healer/DPS. They could just be a bad tank, and where would we be if SE started banning bad tanks?

/s

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Originally Posted by Xirean

We've been over that. Killing someone is griefing.

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Yes, I agree, and so is rescuing a tank into mobs. I've already been over this several times.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Then I'd like users on here to stop faulting tanks for killing healers and DPS who pull for them them, as they are "communicating" their intent, in a very similar fashion.

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We've been over that. Killing someone is griefing.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Then I'd like users on here to stop faulting tanks for killing healers and DPS who pull them, as they are "communicating" their intent, in a very similar fashion.

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Faulting them how? If the tank can’t hold what pulled on them, and whoever pulls on them dies despite the tanks best efforts. It’s on the person who pulled. HOWEVER. If the tank turns stance off or does whatever with the attitude of “you pull it, you tank it”, then the tank is at fault. As intention is there to doom the other player, that is equivalent to mpk. That is griefing. There is intent. You can’t pick one way and excuse the other

I kinda feel like tagging the next group with a spell and standing on top of the tank so that the mobs naturally get swept in his AoE rotation is a much simpler and effective way to go about this. Pulling the tank via rescue means the first group is getting dragged out of placeable AoE, plus increases the chances of the tank getting annoyed. I wouldn't go as far as calling it griefing, as I believe that's not the intent behind the gesture, just much less effective than the alternative.

And speaking of 'relocating' tanks via rescue, I'm technically guilty of that one. It was in Stormblood's first dungeon, the ghost ships one (love that dungeon). We were on one of said ghost ships where the floor gets bombarded constantly. The rest of the party was standing in a safe zone, communicating that the mobs should be tanked there but the tank ignored us and tanked everything in the middle of all the AoEs. We stood there for a while, figuring he'd catch on. He did not. I ised rescue and pulled him to us but he immediately ran back in the middle of the AoEs... at that point we just quietly facepalmed, gave up and ran in there to get this over with.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Yes, I agree, and so is rescuing a tank into mobs. I've already been over this several times.

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No, that's communication. Stop lumping shit together.

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

Then we definitely don't play on the same deta center.

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Not sure what Data Center you play on, but on mine, no matter the level of the dungeon, everyone has spoken and "Hi". And if we wipe on a boss then we talk it out and explain the fight.

I have only been playing this game for 6 and a half months and it has been the best experience(s) ever. Like I have really really enjoyed my time in Eorzea. These experiences you speak of is something I have not seen in FFXIV. Perhaps you are thinking of WoW. That type of rudeness exists in Copious amounts over there.

Frankly, I cant tell if this anti-rush mentality is legitimate or just trolling anymore because the argument has turned into such a caricature of itself that it doesnt sound like real people in real scenarios. To me, usually I dont have a problem with going slow unless its a sprout tank or sprout healer. I'd rather they be comfortable with their job than being poke with a stick on to keep up with a veteran. That would also transition to new roles for veteran players (first time tank/healers). Outside of that, you better be pulling -- as you have no excuse.

Im sorry, but thats just the honest truth of it.

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Originally Posted by Darksummoner

These experiences you speak of is something I have not seen in FFXIV. Perhaps you are thinking of WoW. That type of rudeness exists in Copious amounts over there.

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You have so much to learn then.

Well I was curious so I decided to ask a GM in support chat about it. Sorry if the text is a little small, I didn't want to crop out any of the image.

https://i.imgur.com/DUcOyTl.png
https://i.imgur.com/eMpWYAp.png
https://i.imgur.com/ZNFgQqw.png

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Originally Posted by Y2K21

Frankly, I cant tell if this anti-rush mentality is legitimate or just trolling anymore because the argument has turned into such a caricature of itself that it doesnt sound like real people in real scenarios. To me, usually I dont have a problem with going slow unless its a sprout tank or sprout healer. I'd rather they be comfortable with their job than being poke with a stick on to keep up with a veteran. That would also transition to new roles for veteran players (first time tank/healers). Outside of that, you better be pulling -- as you have no excuse.

Im sorry, but thats just the honest truth of it.



You have so much to learn then.

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Please teach me. Cause I played on WoW for 17 years. Please do teach me any lessons I might have missed from being over there. Or maybe lessons from other games perhaps.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

Well I was curious so I decided to ask a GM in support chat about it. Sorry if the text is a little small, I didn't want to crop out any of the image.

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So you're telling me customer support was telling you pretty much exactly what I was saying? However, "pulling a tank forward" is not the same as pulling a tank into a group of active adds, who are most likely using AOE attacks, to compel them into pulling more. That customer rep referred to rescue's actual function. At the very least if you are going to do it, be very careful to avoid pulling them into add's aoes, otherwise it's not a good look! Anyway, I did chuckle at the reference to a "crumb trail" in the chat, since I also previously sarcastically stated:

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I suggest players use the chat function to communicate their intent! Both the tank choosing to not pick up the adds and the healer rescuing the tank into AoEs!

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You put your intent in chat, you get banned!

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

So you're telling me customer support was telling you pretty much exactly what I was saying? However, "pulling a tank forward" is not the same as pulling a tank into a group of active adds, who are most likely using AOE attacks, to compel them into pulling more. At the very least if you are going to do it, be very careful to avoid pulling them into add's aoes, otherwise it's not a good look! Anyway, that customer rep referred to rescues actual function. I did chuckle at the reference to a "crumb trail" in the chat, since I also previously sarcastically stated:

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Uh no. You said it was griefing to use rescue the way describe in the screen shots. Now you're trying to change what you said after the fact. Also as stated earlier by me. You can't really pull a tank into a group of mobs. They often are not close enough to make that happen. So pulling them forward is as close to that as you can get. And like I also said earlier, using rescue to get someone killed is actually considered griefing. The only part of this that goes against what I said is tanks turning off their tank stance not being considered griefing. Which I'm fine with especially as they confirmed that it is something to use the kick function for. They also technically confirmed that kicking people for pulling mobs to the tank is also ok. I think that one would just come down to what the group wants.

Edit: Actually hold up. How do you think people use rescue to get a tank to pull bigger? It sounds like you think the healer pulls the mobs then uses rescue on the tank. It's either one or the other. Nobody does both at the same time, that's ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

Uh no. You said it was griefing to use rescue the way describe in the screen shots. Now you're trying to change what you said after the fact. Also as stated earlier by me. You can't really pull a tank into a group of mobs. They often are not close enough to make that happen. So pulling them forward is as close to that as you can get. And like I also said earlier, using rescue to get someone killed is actually considered griefing. The only part of this that goes against what I said is tanks turning off their tank stance not being considered griefing. Which I'm fine with especially as they confirmed that it is something to use the kick function for. They also technically confirmed that kicking people for pulling mobs to the tank is also ok. I think that one would just come down to what the group wants.

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Here is the context of my posts, as I was replying to this post:

[There is some nuance here which I have addressed before. It's nuisance behavior either way, but it's only bannable, if it's actually rescued into danger, and intent is left in the chat. It is not proper usage of rescue. I digress. Done with this bit after several posts (probably none left), so I'll just leave it here.

Even better if a tank turning off their stance and not participating, actually wasn't considered griefing, and wasn't bannable (which it is if someone stated they aren't playing due to a disagreement - since players have literally been banned for it). The word is set then! If a tank decides on the philosophy of "you pull it you tank it", it's simply a disagreement! There is no reason to complain here, just use the kick function as has been suggested here for several years.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

If the healer pulls some mobs and then uses rescue on the tank, those mobs still won't agro onto the tank. The tank would still have to hit them after. And even if the healer did that, it's a stupid thing to do. Either pull the mobs yourself and take them to the tank or move the tank closer to where the next mobs are.

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Yes, an active group who will be dropping aoes, there is potential for them to be dropped into an aoe, and I guarantee you there are healers actively pulling tanks into danger. Which is why I have been referring to them as "active" groups. Actually done with this though, as I can't continue an argument on here.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

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I have not even approved of "you pull it, you tank it" on here. I'm being sarcastic. I even put a /s in one of my earlier posts actually on this. I have voiced my disapproval several times in the past. Probably in one or two of these recent threads even.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Then I'd like users to reflect, and stop faulting tanks for killing healers and DPS who pull for them them, as they are "communicating" their intent, in a very similar fashion.

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If your "communication" requires killing potentially three party members intentionally because of one person, you have poor communication skills.

If you hate it so much, finish the pull, by tanking it, like you're meant to, and then speak your issue. Even if my personal opinion is a tank that doesn't pull big isn't even a tank, you going "I really don't feel comfortable with big pulls yet, please slow down" will 99% of the time win you the favor of someone in the party and they will kick the person.

I absolutely hate this stupid idea of justifying tanks killing party members, or healers killing party members, or dps killing party members, anyone doing it. One tank I very much recall decided to do that very thing, drop stance to make me die to mobs, not even because I pulled, but because... Get this... I COMPLIMENTED HIM. We had trouble with a pull, where he didn't use cooldowns, and I asked him to use them earlier so they can mitigate more, and when he did I complimented him to enforce the "Good job" vibes that'd give, and he responded by intentionally dropping stance for next pull so I'd get aggro and die, even putting it back up the second I went down to grab them back before it could kill anything else. I think we can all agree that isn't cool, right? But that's what "Tanks are the leaders" mentally does. Even compliments hurt their ego.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I have not even approved of "you pull it, you tank it" on here. I'm being sarcastic. I even put a /s in one of my earlier posts actually on this. I have voiced my disapproval several times in the past. Probably in one or two of these recent threads even.

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Dang guys, watch out, it was just a prank. I'm sure my DF experiences are also all just pranks, bro. Man, got me good, 10/10 prank. Would prank again.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Here is the context of my posts, as I was replying to this post:



Does this say pull forward? Or does it say rescuing the tank 'into' another pack? This is the quote I originally replied to. I digress.

Even better if a tank turning off their stance and not participating, actually wasn't considered griefing, and wasn't bannable (which it is if someone stated they aren't playing due to a disagreement - since players have literally been banned for it). The word is set then! If a tank decides on the philosophy you pull it you tank it, it's simply a disagreement! There is no reason to complain here, just use the kick function has been suggested for several years.

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My god you really like to split words here. There is no way possible to use rescue to pull a tank into a mob in order to get the mob to agro onto them, except maybe MAYBE in Hauke Manor or deep dungeon where mobs roam around corners and can get between you. The only way you're going to ever be able to rescue to get a tank to pull more is if you use it to move them forward and they continue to walk forward. If the healer pulls some mobs and then uses rescue on the tank, those mobs still won't agro onto the tank. The tank would still have to hit them after. And even if the healer did that, it's a stupid thing to do. Either pull the mobs yourself and take them to the tank or move the tank closer to where the next mobs are. Guess which one is more common?

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

Dang guys, watch out, it was just a prank. I'm sure my DF experiences are also all just pranks, bro. Man, got me good, 10/10 prank. Would prank again.

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Do I really need to go into my post history and pull up several quotes of mine? Have to waste one of my last posts on this.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

It's crazy how people can outright grief in this game, and even get defended for it.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Both the tank choosing to not pick up the adds and the healer rescuing the tank into AoEs! Here's the secret... It's both griefing!

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

(...) I gave a fairly neutral position, cited saving time, and to prevent potential party wipes, a tank should do their job. I also suggested the kick function. By the way, a player choosing to not do their job is actually bannable. It's griefing plain and simple.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

The tank could also do their job, regardless of whether a DPS pulls or not. Some may not like it, and that's what a kick function is for. Just as they can be kicked, the tank can be kicked too.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

(...)For that matter, one would have to actually be griefing to make it a thing, such as actively avoiding hitting their add(s).

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

(...)a player can be viewed as intent to be disruptive, because a player who is willfully not participating in content - and stating such - is disrupting the gameplay experience for the player(s) who pulled.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Hate to break it to you guys, but griefing is likely very common in this game. As long as there is no actual admission in chat to doing such, or just blatantly doing so, it might as well be non-actionable

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Frankly, I think zooming through these dungeons is the proper way to do them.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

You're not supposed to, no. Is it preferred? For the most part, yeah. I'd say this to most new players, once you get the hang of the dungeons it should be routine to pull more.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

It's quite obvious that in this game they expect players to pull more than one pack at a time

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

(...) I do pull as large as possible in the majority of dungeons. I don't really ever have anybody running in front of me or pulling for me.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

(...) you get tanks who single pull, and/or healers who can't heal. Literally can't win. :p

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It's not like it's something I haven't been known for on these forums. Much of my older 'Tales from Duty Finder' posts were me being extremely hyperbolic. It is just me being sarcastic, plain and simple. I was annoyed at the discussion seemingly justifying the improper usage of rescue, which I also consider griefing, but I have already gone over that part several times. Frankly, I have been very tame on here.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

I absolutely hate this stupid idea of justifying tanks killing party members, or healers killing party members, or dps killing party members, anyone doing it. One tank I very much recall decided to do that very thing, drop stance to make me die to mobs, not even because I pulled, but because... Get this... I COMPLIMENTED HIM. We had trouble with a pull, where he didn't use cooldowns, and I asked him to use them earlier so they can mitigate more, and when he did I complimented him to enforce the "Good job" vibes that'd give, and he responded by intentionally dropping stance for next pull so I'd get aggro and die, even putting it back up the second I went down to grab them back before it could kill anything else. I think we can all agree that isn't cool, right? But that's what "Tanks are the leaders" mentally does. Even compliments hurt their ego.

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Yes, and this is why I also always suggest to not chat in this game. The tank didn't take that as a compliment, they probably actually took it as being patronizing. Which this community very often does.

No, even if I don't think people should be actively chatting, I do not think griefing, either by rescuing a tank, or refusing to tank, are proper forms of communication. Run ahead if you so choose, just don't rescue a tank to encourage them to "pull more", just pull more yourself and bring them to the tank. A tank shouldn't refuse to play either, and get players killed, as that is also not a proper form of communication for wanting to pull less. Use the chat only when necessary, kick when needed, or leave when needed.

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Originally Posted by Darksummoner

Please teach me. Cause I played on WoW for 17 years. Please do teach me any lessons I might have missed from being over there. Or maybe lessons from other games perhaps.

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Tip 1: GCBTW meme exists for a reason

Tip 2: There is a large overlap of people who played WoW that also play FF14

Tip 3: Bring up WoW in Novice Network and watch people explode

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Originally Posted by Y2K21

Tip 1: GCBTW meme exists for a reason

Tip 2: There is a large overlap of people who played WoW that also play FF14

Tip 3: Bring up WoW in Novice Network and watch people explode

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Despite what I have said and what you said and what i think and what you think, I still have not ran into the shitty experiences that he has, so not going to base my time here in FFXIV on his words. Perhaps he needs to change Data Centers. not sure. And thank God I have never went to the Novice Network. I don't have time for a bunch of sensitive ass snowflakes who get all pissy that it is fact that Wow devs are running around grabbing ass in the employee business instead of making a "Great" expansion.

This discussion has been great and all, but I see it going no where. Time to move onto the next post. See you when I see you

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Originally Posted by Darksummoner

I don't have time for a bunch of sensitive ass snowflakes who get all pissy that it is fact that Wow devs are running around grabbing ass in the employee business instead of making a "Great" expansion.

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Thats kind of a really bad take considering a lot of the stories about incidents took place in years way prior -- like most of this stuff was from the past 10+ years and not just in the past 2, my guy. A culture is ingrained -- it doesnt magically appear out of nowhere.

Like I get youre a Wow refugee, but if you honestly think that the expansion was bad because "they were too busy grabbing asses" when a lot of the issues have been going on for years rather than just WoW coasting on being in a realm with low competition is nonsensical. Especially with how these light to actions shed a negative light onto the old guard of WoW.

(reworded).

Was wondering why this was blowing up again. Gatekeeping what is considered communication now? Not sure that's a hill worth dying on.

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Originally Posted by Lexis

I kinda feel like tagging the next group with a spell and standing on top of the tank so that the mobs naturally get swept in his AoE rotation is a much simpler and effective way to go about this.

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That's the usual go to(and if anything is worse than rescuing a tank in principle), rescuing the tank is usually only done if the space between the next pack is greater than 60yRange.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

Well I was curious so I decided to ask a GM in support chat about it. Sorry if the text is a little small, I didn't want to crop out any of the image.

https://i.imgur.com/DUcOyTl.png
https://i.imgur.com/eMpWYAp.png
https://i.imgur.com/ZNFgQqw.png

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No way to read this.can you sun it up?

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Do I really need to go into my post history and pull up several quotes of mine? Have to waste one of my last posts on this.

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I mean, you’re the one who decided to double, triple, even quadruple down on being wrong. Just because some things in your opinion are one way or another doesn’t mean you are correct. Even if you try many times to twist what you said to change the narrative slightly enough for you to be 95% incorrect as opposed to 100%. You could always go back and read your old posts, same as we can, and know what you actually said

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

No way to read this.can you sun it up?

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Try right click -> Open Image in New Tab

Sorry for the small size, I wanted to show that it was indeed the support site.

edit: I re-uploaded but cropped better
https://i.imgur.com/CEeiDkB.png
https://i.imgur.com/MOcKF9a.png
https://i.imgur.com/YyJR2se.png

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

I mean, you’re the one who decided to double, triple, even quadruple down on being wrong. Just because some things in your opinion are one way or another doesn’t mean you are correct. Even if you try many times to twist what you said to change the narrative slightly enough for you to be 95% incorrect as opposed to 100%. You could always go back and read your old posts, same as we can, and know what you actually said

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I'm not wrong. I do not consider it a form of communication, I said it was griefing at the start and I still say it is griefing. The breadcrumbs are there from my earlier posts. It is a completely unecessary skill to be used; there is no need for it. If someone wants to communicate they can pull more, literally just pull more.

Did you people not notice my use of exclamation marks? That's me being sarcastic. Should I have used more emojis to signify I was being sarcastic on certain points? Gifs? I guess I need to type /s after every post where I am, since apparently it isn't something that translates well over the internet. I brought up tanks griefing, because I think it is funny how touchy many players are over the subject. The tank can be pulled around (literally), but the minute they decide they aren't having any of it, and get them back with the "you pull it, you tank it" mentality, it's suddenly the end of the world. A tank with this mentality is the same as that of a healer rescuing the tank to "encourage" them to pull more, I'd say.

My argument was always framed from the start as rescuing players into mobs. This is the post people replied to, aside from me initially referring to it as griefing. 'You pull it, you tank it', is brought up, because I equate one type of griefing with another type of griefing.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

It is griefing. That is not the purpose of rescue. This is forcing a playstyle on another player, just running ahead and pulling is one thing, but not pulling a player into mobs.

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This does not say pull forward, it says pull into mobs. That's how I framed it. Really though, I consider any use of rescue that isn't for it's intended purpose griefing, even if "communicating" to pull faster is the intent, it's just not bannable. Most things aren't, unless someone states their intent in the chat (which I pulled up an old post stating this), or rescues into danger. Just as one can't prove a tank is griefing either, unless they state what they did in chat. A tank doesn't have to blatantly turn off their tank stance, when someone else pulls. They can just not hit the adds that were pulled. Still, even if they did, it still can't be proven that it wasn't just some bad tank accidentally hitting off their tank stance.

Rescue addressed, into mechanics:

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

(...) rescuing a tank into mobs will probably accomplish that purpose, and might even result in an MPK.

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Rescue addressed in general:

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

It's fairly simple. It's not a means of communication, it's a nuisance. I get players want to go fast, but unless you are a player speedrunning in the DF, and you think you need to shave off 2-3 seconds for the tank to get to the mobs, it's unnecessary.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

EVEN IF they couldn't chat, rescue being used in this way is not a proper form of communication. It is a skill meant to save players from mechanics, NOT pull people into them.

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Again, even just pulling a player forward, is not a proper use of this skill either. The only fault of mine, is not addressing both points enough. Getting pulled into mechanics, and getting pulled forward alone as a supposed form of communication.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

Try right click -> Open Image in New Tab

Sorry for the small size, I wanted to show that it was indeed the support site.

edit: I re-uploaded but cropped better
https://i.imgur.com/CEeiDkB.png
https://i.imgur.com/MOcKF9a.png
https://i.imgur.com/YyJR2se.png

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I am on a phone so I cant

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

I am on a phone so I cant

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Save the photo to gallery and zoom it over there.
You can delete after anyways.

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

I am on a phone so I cant

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Check desktop version display in your browser, then zoom as much as you like.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

Try right click -> Open Image in New Tab

Sorry for the small size, I wanted to show that it was indeed the support site.

edit: I re-uploaded but cropped better
https://i.imgur.com/CEeiDkB.png
https://i.imgur.com/MOcKF9a.png
https://i.imgur.com/YyJR2se.png

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This is who the representative is and you can't change my mind.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...34/285/d77.jpg