Open World PvP

It isn't really an example of white knighting to ask for people to avoid personal attacks in a thread about a new mode in a video game.

Here's the comment in question that I made:

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Originally Posted by Theodric

That aside, I don't think there's any need for personal attacks - especially over something as trivial as preferences in a video game.

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I'm not really seeing what is supposedly so dramatic or unreasonable about that.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I'm not really seeing what is supposedly so dramatic or unreasonable about that.

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GCBTW!

I can't wait for Asmongold's followers to come and purify this corrupt community.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

It's more that I find that portion of the community's stance to this game to be a big reason why it's so stuck in the mud and insipid.

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But the game isn't stuck in the mud and insipid. It's very good for those who want the type of game it is.

Sounds more like you're expecting the game to be something it was never intended to be.

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Originally Posted by MoofiaBossVal

Open world PvP would be cool but it wouldn't work with flying.

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Open world PvP works just fine with flying. Did a lot of it in Outland during BC, especially around Halaa since that was designed as a world PvP hub. Also did a lot of back and forth between Honor Hold and Thrallmar. Those who wanted to PvP would be there. Those who didn't would keep their distance. Flying didn't stop it - it helped those who wanted to PvP get there faster.

What doesn't work with flying is ganking. Gankers get upset when their non-consenting targets have a potential escape route. It's weird how the gankers will then usually disappear when those who actually want to PvP start showing up to fight.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Um....we were missing content long before covid was a thing sweetie. Hate when people use that excuse when we were already very clearly missing things before it was a thing like...you’re gonna blame it on the pandemic that didn’t even exist yet?

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And yet no one is giving SE credit for the new content they added. They only complain that there are fewer dungeons added without mentioning the multizone combat like Eureka and Bozja/Zadnor, or the Firmament (granted the latter will have no interest for someone who is looking for combat content).

Just because you aren't interested in what content did get added doesn't mean there is less content. There's just less that is of interest to you (and I'm going to be highly disappointed if you're actively participating in Bozja/Zadnor at the same time you're complaining about fewer dungeons).

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Originally Posted by Neoyoshi

Is Triple Triad open world? I can't remember. xD

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It's not. You can only play against other players in a few designated places. ;-)

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Originally Posted by van_arn

All of the above take place on an opt-in pvp setting

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Are you certain about that?

It was very easy to force flag enemy players in WoW up until mid-MoP. There were dozens of little tricks to use so someone would end up flagged without their specific opt in. Even after Blizzard had addressed most of the tricks, new ones would be discovered or bugs would happen.

Let's say there are very specific PvP worlds created and open world PvP is only possible on those (which I doubt can happen considering how SE has to mirror everything world to world from the number of zone instances at expansion start to housing wards).

What about the player who just wants to get their MSQ progression or other content completed without being interrupted by PvP for a change? Tough for them, it's either PvP or don't play?

We saw what happened in WoW on PvP worlds. Players would migrate to majority faction so they didn't have to worry much about getting interrupted while doing other stuff. Those on the minority faction who didn't want to play the majority faction would abandon their characters or transfer to another world that either had their faction as the majority or was not a PvP world.

The majority faction had almost no one left to fight outside of a handful of diehards who were actually interested in world PvP. Cries of "Blizzard, do something! Make my world balanced again so I have someone to fight!" would fill the forums and yet those players who claimed they wanted to fight would never take the obivious step and change factions so they would have thousands of players to fight.

If world PvP doesn't work in the long run in a game that was supposedly designed for it, how well do you really think it's going to work in game that was not designed for world PvP at all?

Keep in mind we don't have factions as a basis for PvP here. SE had to pretty much give up on GCs for PvP and put everything into mercenary mode because players all flocked to what was perceived as the winning GC.

How many players are going to opt-in to participate when it's all FFA and any allies you recruit are subject to friendly fire?

MMO's by their very nature change over time and they are also designed to appeal to a broad range of players. With that in mind, it strikes me as counterproductive for anyone to suggest that players would be better off going elsewhere if they want to see a specific request come to fruition.

Certainly, the development team are no stranger to obliging niche requests as we've seen numerous times already.

The addition of PvP out in the open world in some form would not suddenly shift the game's genre altogether, either. It'd just be another piece of content that some people can involve themselves with and others can actively avoid.

It need not be implemented in every zone. Some proposals - mine included - involved suggesting some sort of no man's land where it can be limited to as a compromise.

As an aside, I've enjoyed a lot of the experimental content that FFXIV has put forward. I like playing around on BLU, I liked Eureka and I'm even more fond of the Save the Queen content.

Unfortunately Matsuno isn't returning to write the planned third act, which has since been scrapped - in turn dampening my enthusiasm for future content. Those who are already happy with the game must surely have plenty to entertain themselves with. Thus I see no harm in allowing different niches to be fulfilled from time to time. It helps the community grow, after all.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

MMO's by their very nature change over time and they are also designed to appeal to a broad range of players. With that in mind, it strikes me as counterproductive for anyone to suggest that players would be better off going elsewhere if they want to see a specific request come to fruition.

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There's never harm in asking.

But do you realistically believe SE could create a satisfying open world PvP experience without compromising the quality of content already in the world or causing disruptions to the game experience of those players with no interest in world PvP? I personally wouldn't mind if they added it for those who want it but it's not something I want for myself nor do I want it disrupting my game experience. Part of the appeal of FFXIV when I got fed up with WoW and was looking for a new game was that I didn't have to worry about world PvP disruptions taking out flightmaster or other NPCs I needed to interact with.

I don't think SE could pull it off. The instanced PvP in this game is generally viewed as poor as it is. It's going to be very hard for SE to produce good open world PvP when even Blizzard has always struggled with it despite designing it into WoW from the start.

That's why players will suggest going elsewhere to get it. Go to games that were designed for it from the start so you get a better experience and this game isn't disrupted for players who in many cases came here specifically because it lacked world PvP.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

The addition of PvP out in the open world in some form would not suddenly shift the game's genre altogether, either. It'd just be another piece of content that some people can involve themselves with and others can actively avoid.

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important part bolded.

Most of the people in this thread are not against content they won't engage in. They are against content they will be forced to be engaged in, have to change their current playstyle to avoid, and/or content that changes what they currently find "fun" about the game.


I hate Eureka. I rarely engage in EX-Ultimates.

Both are fine to be expanded. While I have my gripes about locking the relics and dyable armor behind them.. they aren't detracting from what I enjoy in the game and I can choose to engage in them at will.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

important part bolded.

Most of the people in this thread are not against content they won't engage in. They are against content they will be forced to be engaged in, have to change their current playstyle to avoid, and/or content that changes what they currently find "fun" about the game.


I hate Eureka. I rarely engage in EX-Ultimates.

Both are fine to be expanded. While I have my gripes about locking the relics and dyable armor behind them.. they aren't detracting from what I enjoy in the game and I can choose to engage in them at will.

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Precisely. Expand Savage/Ultimate, expand/improve PVP, expand on Triple Triad. NONE of those things are things I engage in much (I do pvp here and there, but only because there are a few glams I want that are only obtained via Wolf Marks). I'm fine with all that getting more attention even though none of those things are among the aspects of the game that I really care about.

I don't know how or why the idea of opt-in open world pvp got conflated with NON opt-in open world pvp, because it seems to me that the vast, vast majority of opposition to "open-world pvp" has been if it's not opt-in. Yes, there's also some "I don't want to see too much dev time devoted to something I don't care about." Personally, I don't generally worry about that sort of thing; I get that people play the game for a variety of reasons and engage in a variety of content, so I'm cool with some dev time/resources being devoted to things I don't care about, even if that could theoretically be "at the expense of" work on content I DO care about. There can be exceptions, like if I just think something is really really worthless and would rather not see time and resources devoted to it, but that's not too common for me.

But LOTS of people in this playerbase DO care about that. There's no sense in singling out people who say this of PVP because people say this about all kinds of content - "I don't want to see (X) because I don't want the limited dev time/resources to be used on it."

That said, open-world pvp that is NOT opt-in is a terrible idea. And I'd hazard a guess that said mode of "forced" open-world pvp participation is what the VAST majority of the "anti" people in this thread (possibly 100% of them) are against. Other than discussions of it simply not being viable (because the dev team likely wouldn't be able to do a good job to implement it in a satisfying way and make the systems for it work, etc.), I don't really see people being against opt-in world pvp on principle. And for my part, if they COULD make opt-in open-world pvp work well, in a way that pvp-enthusiasts would find fun, without having to spend a disproportionately high amount of time working on it (i.e. spending way too much time/energy on it compared to other somewhat niche content), then hey sure, why not.

Yoshi already talked about open world PvP sometime around end of Stormblood. He said the devs could already just tag an area for PvP but they haven't done that in the live game cause there aren't enough people looking for that kind of content. Only 1/3 of the current PvP modes are active for 6-7 hours a day and rest of the modes only happen during ranked seasons/community events. Splitting the small PvP community into even more modes might be bad for all of the modes. Now it would be important that the new small scale PvP mode is a success because that would help with the problem that the only PvP happening actively is Frontline that requires 72 players that has no chance for it to pop before the daily reset.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

important part bolded.

Most of the people in this thread are not against content they won't engage in. They are against content they will be forced to be engaged in, have to change their current playstyle to avoid, and/or content that changes what they currently find "fun" about the game.


I hate Eureka. I rarely engage in EX-Ultimates.

Both are fine to be expanded. While I have my gripes about locking the relics and dyable armor behind them.. they aren't detracting from what I enjoy in the game and I can choose to engage in them at will.

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This exactly. I don't know when these forums started down the path of people going oh well you are against this version of an idea so you must be against all versions. There are a select few in this thread who have recently taken this stance. And seem to want to die on the various hills they take that stance on just so they can complete the cycle of the self fulfilling prophecy of no one can ask for changes to the game that may or may not be seen as popular. Just so that they then can point and cry out "See? You can't ask for something different from the normal or criticize the game. Because people don't want or agree with one aspect of something."

I'm one of those who wouldn't mind having areas or ways people can pvp as long as it's optional and the devs somehow made it satisfying. The fact that many in and outside of the pvp community see what we do have as unsatisfying doesn't help any new mode look promising.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

It was very easy to force flag enemy players in WoW up until mid-MoP. There were dozens of little tricks to use so someone would end up flagged without their specific opt in. Even after Blizzard had addressed most of the tricks, new ones would be discovered or bugs would happen.

Let's say there are very specific PvP worlds created and open world PvP is only possible on those (which I doubt can happen considering how SE has to mirror everything world to world from the number of zone instances at expansion start to housing wards).

What about the player who just wants to get their MSQ progression or other content completed without being interrupted by PvP for a change? Tough for them, it's either PvP or don't play?

We saw what happened in WoW on PvP worlds. Players would migrate to majority faction so they didn't have to worry much about getting interrupted while doing other stuff. Those on the minority faction who didn't want to play the majority faction would abandon their characters or transfer to another world that either had their faction as the majority or was not a PvP world.

The majority faction had almost no one left to fight outside of a handful of diehards who were actually interested in world PvP. Cries of "Blizzard, do something! Make my world balanced again so I have someone to fight!" would fill the forums and yet those players who claimed they wanted to fight would never take the obivious step and change factions so they would have thousands of players to fight.

If world PvP doesn't work in the long run in a game that was supposedly designed for it, how well do you really think it's going to work in game that was not designed for world PvP at all?

Keep in mind we don't have factions as a basis for PvP here. SE had to pretty much give up on GCs for PvP and put everything into mercenary mode because players all flocked to what was perceived as the winning GC.

How many players are going to opt-in to participate when it's all FFA and any allies you recruit are subject to friendly fire?

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So, I think that PVP servers are out of the question as any server they add would better serve the general player base rather than only part of it.

As for an opt-in method, FFXIV has the advantage of not having competing player factions out in the world that would flag you for PVP if you step into a competing faction's territory. I'm not sure what other methods WoW had for force flagging players for PVP, but FFXIV probably doesn't have them.

So if it's an entirely opt-in mode with no loophole, it should work well.

The other thing is there should be no other extrinsic reward for choosing to opt-in to OW-PVP, like increased exp. That way, people don't have to choose between wanting to do MSQ and gaining reward via opting in to that mode. Just like NG+, people would opt in to do PVP, not for other rewards.

So it's an entirely secluded mode where people have to choose, so events like unwanted wedding crashers can never happen unless people forgot to opt out, which would be their own fault. That said, the wedding itself is instanced and they could force no PVP in that area.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

It is actually

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Griefing is fun only for people suffering from self-esteem issues. Schadenfreude, you need to google that.

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Originally Posted by Nanne

Yoshi already talked about open world PvP sometime around end of Stormblood. He said the devs could already just tag an area for PvP but they haven't done that in the live game cause there aren't enough people looking for that kind of content. Only 1/3 of the current PvP modes are active for 6-7 hours a day and rest of the modes only happen during ranked seasons/community events. Splitting the small PvP community into even more modes might be bad for all of the modes. Now it would be important that the new small scale PvP mode is a success because that would help with the problem that the only PvP happening actively is Frontline that requires 72 players that has no chance for it to pop before the daily reset.

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The only reason why PvP isn't "active enough" is because of the casualisation which happened arround the beginning of heavensward iirc, which turned PvP what it is today. Those changes made 90% of the former PvP community leave, because of how bad the design of current PvP is.

The solution to this is quite simple, make PvP good and more people will begin to like it and maybe even stick with it beyond the promise of rewards.

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Originally Posted by Roeshel

Griefing is fun only for people suffering from self-esteem issues. Schadenfreude, you need to google that.

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Spoken like someone that has never invaded in Dark Souls.

http://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/imag...3978990792.gif

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Originally Posted by Artemiz

Have we made PvP great again yet?

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Not until we get a silly hat that says "Make PvP Great Again!"

Personally, I'm torn between either a Flat Cap, or a Calfskin Cap.

Have we made PvP great again yet?

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Originally Posted by linayar

So if it's an entirely opt-in mode with no loophole, it should work well.

The other thing is there should be no other extrinsic reward for choosing to opt-in to OW-PVP, like increased exp. That way, people don't have to choose between wanting to do MSQ and gaining reward via opting in to that mode. Just like NG+, people would opt in to do PVP, not for other rewards.

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There is a problem with this and that the nature of people themselves.

If there are no rewards, then people will complain its not well done. Not only that, but they have to be unique rewards or why bother pvping, so the people who pvp and are prone to doing so, will complain that the reason more people dont pvp is a lack of rewards...

No, I am not implying that pvpers are reward driven whiners, everyone is... if the thing you enjoy doing has little reward, then its garbage and will complain loudly. its a human trait, end of story.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

The only reason why PvP isn't "active enough" is because of the casualusation which happened arround the beginning of heavensward iirc, which turned PvP what it is today. Those changes made 90% of the former PvP community leave, because of how bad the design of current PvP is.

The solution to this is quite simple, make PvP good and more people will begin to like it and maybe even stick with it beyond the promise of rewards.

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can we stop with blaming casuals for everything?

here is a fact that maybe you ignore, prior to WoW you may have had a point. However, WoW changed gaming by catering to casuals to bring them into gaming for more money into their coffers. after years and years of changes in the gaming industry, blaming them for the current state of anything is wearing pretty thin. the industry is no longer after the niche hardcore gamers, why? because they arent the money... hardcore gamers jump from shiney to shiney faster than casuals, not because they are fickle, but because they feel they have done everything and want a new experience. you may have a poor view of casuals, but I would be willing to bet they have kept some of your favourite games going long past their expirey date.

Is pvp designed poorly, since its not a SE focus, I imagine it is, never tried it, why? because its not a pvp game. so saying that pvpers arent sticking around because of "casualization" is a bit silly since they are not sticking around because its not a pvp centric game. if you love action/war movies, chances are you are not going to go to a movie thats a romance. (and if you do, you are likely forced and will hate the entire experience) you cannot blame a group for that

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

There is a problem with this and that the nature of people themselves.

If there are no rewards, then people will complain its not well done. Not only that, but they have to be unique rewards or why bother pvping, so the people who pvp and are prone to doing so, will complain that the reason more people dont pvp is a lack of rewards...

No, I am not implying that pvpers are reward driven whiners, everyone is... if the thing you enjoy doing has little reward, then its garbage and will complain loudly. its a human trait, end of story.

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True PvP players dont care about item rewards, the only true reward, is being better than someone else. That is all there is to it.

Personally, i see PvP rewards in item- /title form mainly as bait for People driven by their Greed for mounts, glamour... you name it.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

can we stop with blaming casuals for everything?

Is pvp designed poorly, since its not a SE focus, I imagine it is, never tried it, why? because its not a pvp game. so saying that pvpers arent sticking around because of "casualization" is a bit silly since they are not sticking around because its not a pvp centric game. if you love action/war movies, chances are you are not going to go to a movie thats a romance. (and if you do, you are likely forced and will hate the entire experience) you cannot blame a group for that

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I blame casuals exactly for the reason you just mentioned. Everytime casuals demand changes so that they have a easier time on something and it goes horribly wrong, you just pull the "hurr durr Content X is not FFXIV main feature" card. Noone ever said that PvP has to be the main feature of the game, all we want is to have a properly working PvP Mode.

Casuals got their viera and hrothgar races, numerous hairstyles per REQUEST and the main focus of the entire Dev Team. Give me a break and let us PvPers have our own haven within the game, since we too, care for this game.

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Originally Posted by Roeshel

Griefing is fun only for people suffering from self-esteem issues. Schadenfreude, you need to google that.

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This is really not a good take. And yeah, just hours ago I was bashing on van_arm, Theodric, and the other guy with the weeb name (yes, I know, pot and kettle, lol) that I can't remember at the moment, due to disagreeing with virtually everything they were saying. Nevertheless, "you have to have self-esteem issues to enjoy that" is a pretty big stretch at best, and honestly, Forum Diagnoses are rarely a good idea, and tend to make the diagnoser look worse than the diagnosee.

(Yes, I'm commenting on this one even tho I mostly let the "I was going to say sociopath" comment slide. This is because the sociopath comment really came across to me as just a joke; my impression here is that Roeshel is serious about the self-esteem comment. If I'm wrong, I'm sure I will be corrected.)

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Originally Posted by Anhra

I blame casuals exactly for the reason you just mentioned. Everytime casuals demand changes so that they have a easier time on something and it goes horribly wrong, you just pull the "hurr durr Content X is not FFXIV main feature" card. Noone ever said that PvP has to be the main feature of the game, all we want is to have a properly working PvP Mode.

Casuals got their viera and hrothgar races, numerous hairstyles per REQUEST and the main focus of the entire Dev Team. Give me a break and let us PvPers have our own haven within the game, since we too, care for this game.

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you are still blaming the wrong people.

"casuals" as your derogatory term seems to imply, includes a large grouping of people who feel entitled to something just because (pick any reason here)

as for content X not being a feature... I would go out on a limb here and say just that about pvp, is it a feature? of course, back in the day when FFXIV was first released pvp was put into everything, but even back then, it wasnt a focus. it is not a main feature, and as such, implmentation is not as simple as flipping a switch.

the fact here is pvpers have gotten a bad rap over the years with habits of a few and breaking classes due to whining about imbalance instead of learning their kit. Developers are incapable of making pvp changes without ruining pve usually. and who drives those changes in pvp focused games? well... the casual pvpers I guess.

so, whine about casuals all you want, but your casuals ruin as many things for you as mine do.

Big news everyone, the original post now has 9 likes, in only 27 pages!

Surely the developers must respond to this massive swell of public opinion and pull another 2.0 so we can all gank sprouts in the Black Shroud.

You think you want PvP but you really don't, It does nothing but bring out the worst in people.

Use WoW as a case study. PvP servers are absolutely terrible, especially if you're in the minority faction.

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

Spoken like someone that has never invaded in Dark Souls.

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I haven't played Dark Souls. The MMORPG with an open world that I've played is Albion online. The game is free to play of course because no one in their right mind would be paying sbi to have others make them feel miserable. In that game you lose everything you have in your inventory once you are killed. So it's the perfect breeding ground for griefers. I started the game because I liked the player-driven economy and the crafting system. I did try ganking once. It is not hard finding randoms for parties that are going to gank up on people. The ganking experience was extremely unpleasant for me and I just couldn't understand how can people enjoy doing that on a daily basis. I felt pathetic doing that, I don't know how you guys don't.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

There is a problem with this and that the nature of people themselves.

If there are no rewards, then people will complain its not well done. Not only that, but they have to be unique rewards or why bother pvping, so the people who pvp and are prone to doing so, will complain that the reason more people dont pvp is a lack of rewards...

No, I am not implying that pvpers are reward driven whiners, everyone is... if the thing you enjoy doing has little reward, then its garbage and will complain loudly. its a human trait, end of story.

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PVP rewards should be restricted to instanced contents where party sizes are equal and all sides are ready to fight. Open world PVP should be just about the joy and pain of doing PVP in an open environment. And if there is not enough people wanting to do that, that's just the way it is.

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Originally Posted by Artemiz

Big news everyone, the original post now has 9 likes, in only 27 pages!

Surely the developers must respond to this massive swell of public opinion and pull another 2.0 so we can all gank sprouts in the Black Shroud.

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Ganking spouts would only be fun for a limited time until you get bored of it. Personally, i would prefer to just storm Limsa with a bunch of likeminded idiots and kill everyone near the aetheryte (if that were possible).

PVP... we love fair fights! We love competition!...

When actuals PVP players gank, GK and join the most powerful faction just to harass others.

And it ends like Aion with orda-suicide, easy PA, easy stuff, win trade, no PVP anymore. Unless it be possible to twink... for GK.

Fair fight. Fair gameplay. Really.

Be surprised that one of the first decisions about PVP in FFXIV was to... synchronize everyone stuff end delete materia and gear levels. And people to cry they can't GK anymore.

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Originally Posted by Taebok

24 pages arguing about something that has literally a zero percent chance of happening.
Cool.

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I know right, i mean asking SE to implement WPVP, would be like asking CCP to implement MSQ's in Eve Online XD

Supposing SE decides to implement this based off one post in general, lets look at a hypothetical timeline based on what I have seen and experienced in other mmo's (who have done it from the ground up, not as an afterthought years into the game)

1. SE opens pvp labeled worlds for open world pvp
2. initial rush of transfers/new users thinking "PVP!"
3. pvp happens, with all the good and bad aspects of it
4. people either transfer off or create new characters on regular worlds so they can reasonably progress without protection
5. people start complaining that pvp gets no love and there should be more incentives to pvp
6. push to unlock open world pvp on regular worlds because there arent enough players on pvp worlds and its no fun
7. name calling starts because people not that interested in the pvp lifestyle are "ruining the game"
8. SE looks for ways to merge the pvp worlds so the few people on each have more opponents
or, 8A. SE closes the pvp worlds as a failed experiment
9. people wanting pvp start over again, asking for a "better" version of pvp and this time they are SURE it will attract more people if its better

not to mention, if they DID do this, there would have to be city safe zone, so no wandering into Limsa to kill people since the city states frown on wanton murder, and why should SE want the WoL wantonly butchering people out in the open world in the first place with zero consequences? it is difficult to see this concept flying even if they noticed this thread and gave it a read.

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Originally Posted by Roeshel

I haven't played Dark Souls. The MMORPG with an open world that I've played is Albion online. The game is free to play of course because no one in their right mind would be paying sbi to have others make them feel miserable. In that game you lose everything you have in your inventory once you are killed. So it's the perfect breeding ground for griefers. I started the game because I liked the player-driven economy and the crafting system. I did try ganking once. It is not hard finding randoms for parties that are going to gank up on people. The ganking experience was extremely unpleasant for me and I just couldn't understand how can people enjoy doing that on a daily basis. I felt pathetic doing that, I don't know how you guys don't.

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You should give Dark Souls 3 the old college try to be honest. Typically unless it's a solo player going about their own business, the host has more apparent advantages than an invader. Namely higher health, the ability to summon up to two additional players to their side (including password summons, which typically ignore level/weapon level restrictions and can be incredibly obnoxious to deal with despite having their stats scaled down), plus having a covenant that repeatedly summons blue phantoms specifically to deal with invaders. If they use an item known as a Dried Finger, they can summon a third player as well, though that allows one more invader to join in. Also, I might be remembering this wrongly, but there's no limit to how many times a host can summon a new phantom to their side after one of their previous summons is defeated.

In contrast, invaders that barge straight into some other player's world only comes equipped with nothing more than the armor on their backs and weapons in their hands, a whole lot of gumption, and maybe some more experience in PvP than their opponents. If they get lucky, they might get a second invader to back them up, but there's absolutely nothing stopping said second invader from turning around and sending their butt packing back to their home world. If they do decide to cooperate, then they have to deal with friendly fire and avoid accidentally slapping each other silly while the host and their band of ahem- JOLLY COOPERATORS are free to lob whatever they feel like with impunity.

In my opinion, there is no greater satisfaction than utterly dismantling a 4 man gank squad, smashing through an endless sea of Blue Phantoms, catching the host trying to run back to the bonfire to resummon their allies, and absolutely destroying them in single combat as the Gods intended...

Of course that all goes to waste if they just disconnect the router lol.

Oh, if you have a PS4 and do end up trying it out, feel free to hit me up. It's been a while since I've done a fresh run.

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Originally Posted by Nanne

Yoshi already talked about open world PvP sometime around end of Stormblood. He said the devs could already just tag an area for PvP but they haven't done that in the live game cause there aren't enough people looking for that kind of content. Only 1/3 of the current PvP modes are active for 6-7 hours a day and rest of the modes only happen during ranked seasons/community events. Splitting the small PvP community into even more modes might be bad for all of the modes. Now it would be important that the new small scale PvP mode is a success because that would help with the problem that the only PvP happening actively is Frontline that requires 72 players that has no chance for it to pop before the daily reset.

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Maybe not very many people do PvP because it sucks in FFXIV? It's not like there isn't a want for more PvP content, it's that they need to improve their PvP. If this is true, just writing off PvP because not many play it in FFXIV is concerning to me.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

And yet no one is giving SE credit for the new content they added. They only complain that there are fewer dungeons added without mentioning the multizone combat like Eureka and Bozja/Zadnor, or the Firmament (granted the latter will have no interest for someone who is looking for combat content).

Just because you aren't interested in what content did get added doesn't mean there is less content. There's just less that is of interest to you (and I'm going to be highly disappointed if you're actively participating in Bozja/Zadnor at the same time you're complaining about fewer dungeons).

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Funny how you assume i just meant dungeons. Also missing deep dungeon, Hildibrand questline, Dnc and Gnb primal weapons, Gnb and Dnc new ultimate weapon models, missing a bozja zone, no voiced weapons trials, no voiced alli raids, etc etc i could keep going. Why would you be disappointed if i’m participating in bozja/zadnor while complaining? It’s one of the few pieces of content that at least passes the time, then again i completed zadnor in a day so nevermind.

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Originally Posted by lezard21

It's a FF game after all and FF fans are more into RP than any kind of challenge.

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What even is this last part? You totally had me up until this point, but then you had to let the mad dog loose

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Originally Posted by Wind-Krysvein

What even is this last part? You totally had me up until this point, but then you had to let the mad dog loose

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It’s kind of funny to me too because everyone uses it’s an ff game excuse,when Yoshi P himself has stated he wants this game to have multiple elements of other mmo’s. He wants to have something for everyone and he doesn’t want someone to have to go to another game because of something this game doesn’t have.

Oh please no. No open world PvP. One of the worst things about WoW was open world PvP. Some of you think you want this, but you absolutely do not. It would be a waste of dev resources, against the lore, and breed toxicity.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

It’s kind of funny to me too because everyone uses it’s an ff game excuse,when Yoshi P himself has stated he wants this game to have multiple elements of other mmo’s. He wants to have something for everyone and he doesn’t want someone to have to go to another game because of something this game doesn’t have.

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That's ironic. Since this is apparently not a PvP game, so "people should go elsewhere for PvP". Funny thing is, when players want high end PvE content this "isn't the game for them" either. I think only casual content requests are allowed here. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

Oh please no. No open world PvP. One of the worst things about WoW was open world PvP. Some of you think you want this, but you absolutely do not. It would be a waste of dev resources, against the lore, and breed toxicity.

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I don't know if there are really PvP servers now, but my WoW characters were on Illidan, and I had literally no issues.

I don't know why people keep saying it'd be opt in when OP makes it clear they want to track down people they don't like and slaughter them. How'd that work out with opt in?

The only reason I'd want this is if it means I can kill all those annoying bots I see out and about 24/7.

That was one of the blessings of being on a open PvP server in WoW.

This thread is still going? Yeesh.

Here's a thought. Perhaps Square Enix doesn't want the association of the "Warrior of Light" with a gang of what we who also play Dungeons and Dragons refer to as "Murder Hobos"?

There must be a reason this game is more popular than the PvP-centric MMORPGs.

no open world pvp is not in the best interests of the game or the players

Seriously No.

Nothing is more profoundly annoying then trying to complete a quest when theres a horde of neckbeards at max level waiting to gank your low level butt because they're bored and ruining other peoples fun is thier way of expressing "fun".

You want that go to wow click on warmode and stay in that game pretending you're playing ff xiv..

Frontline?

What exactly are people looking out for with World PvP that you cannot just get from Frontline? Ability to mass gank lonely people stranglethorn-style?

I don't think it's true that most Final Fantasy fans just want 'RP'. For starters, not everybody even engages in role-play in the first place. Furthermore, pretty much every mainline Final Fantasy game has done something different so it's difficult to say that Final Fantasy games are about X, Y or Z when there's so much variety in what each title brings to the table.

I've engaged in RP in this game and others, but then I've also pushed to engage with content across the board because ultimately it's a game and games are to be played. It's an MMO first and foremost. Which, by their very nature, attract a broad variety of players with many different wants and desires.