So, can we just ban damage meters already.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Beyond that, unsolicited help is only really appropriate in situations where the group is struggling. In leveling content it may not be welcome, even if you're polite about it. If someone doesn't want your help, and the run is going fine without your lecture, then don't force the issue.

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Fam, I hate to break this to you but you could have everyone roll their hands across their keyboards, and stand in every AOE possible in the story content as long as the healer is healing you will never lose.

The bar is so damn low for story content you could probably just map your 1-2-3 combo to your hotbar and be fine, that doesn't mean you shouldn't put in an effort.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Beyond that, unsolicited help is only really appropriate in situations where the group is struggling. In leveling content it may not be welcome, even if you're polite about it. If someone doesn't want your help, and the run is going fine without your lecture, then don't force the issue.

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Actually something we agree on - only my approach is probably different then yours: If someone is playing below standards and doesnt react to (polite) improvement suggestions you should solve the issue by simply removing the person from the run by vote-kicking. If they dont want my help to improve they wont get my help to clear the content in question, aka being carried.

Cant have it both ways: either you are or become a productive member of the team - or you need help.

Personally I'd like to see this policy adapted by everyone... no harrassment, no numbers, nothing said... just silent vote-kicks with people who'll never know that they cant progress with the story because they're to bad.

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

Fam, I hate to break this to you but you could have everyone roll their hands across their keyboards, and stand in every AOE possible in the story content as long as the healer is healing you will never lose.

The bar is so damn low for story content you could probably just map your 1-2-3 combo to your hotbar and be fine, that doesn't mean you shouldn't put in an effort.

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The bar is damn low in story content for a reason. Because new players struggling, dying and thus not contributing very effectively to the group are forced to run it with other people. So, by making it so easy you'd clear it with no issue even if the new person fell asleep, you have no reason to bother the new player.

I get it, though. Calling out people makes you feel important. ; )

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

The bar is damn low in story content for a reason. Because new players struggling, dying and thus not contributing very effectively to the group are forced to run it with other people. So, by making it so easy you'd clear it with no issue even if the new person fell asleep, you have no reason to bother the new player.

I get it, though. Calling out people makes you feel important. ; )

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Nah, I just expect people to put in effort.
If I'm in a leveling dungeon at level 60, and I'm putting in half the DPS because the SAM isn't doing anything - you better believe they are getting called out and/or kicked.

Learning is fine, being lazy & not putting in effort is not.
The bar being so low that healers are basically green DPS doesn't mean you should be carried.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Actually something we agree on - only my approach is probably different then yours: If someone is playing below standards and doesnt react to (polite) improvement suggestions you should solve the issue by simply removing the person from the run by vote-kicking. If they dont want my help to improve they wont get my help to clear the content in question, aka being carried.

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Yea, that will be valid once SE starts letting new players run story content alone. They don't, so YOUR reward for "carrying" them comes in the form of new player bonuses. If the new player wants to listen to your "polite" lecture, that's fine. If he doesn't then just clear the dungeon and move on with your day, don't be petty and kick him from a faceroll story dungeon.

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Yea, that will be valid once SE starts letting new players run story content alone. They don't, so YOUR reward for "carrying" them comes in the form of new player bonuses.

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Unfortunately, new player bonuses in leveling content are so pitiful they may as well not exist (no tomes are given unless it's 50/60/70/80 content), so that isn't going to incentivize anyone to tolerate dead weight party members just because they happen to be new.

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

Nah, I just expect people to put in effort.
If I'm in a leveling dungeon at level 60, and I'm putting in half the DPS because the SAM isn't doing anything - you better believe they are getting called out and/or kicked.

Learning is fine, being lazy & not putting in effort is not.
The bar being so low that healers are basically green DPS doesn't mean you should be carried.

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If the new players just AFK'ing fine. If he's actually playing but he sucks; save your lectures for situations where the group is legitimately struggling without his help. If a lecture from you isn't necessary, and the new player isn't interested, it's not really your place to force anything.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Yea, that will be valid once SE starts letting new players run story content alone. They don't, so YOUR reward for "carrying" them comes in the form of new player bonuses. If the new player wants to listen to your "polite" lecture, that's fine. If he doesn't then just clear the dungeon and move on with your day, don't be petty and kick him from a faceroll story dungeon.

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The bonus isn't worth the carry.
Either way we are going to clear the dungeon, but just with a different person when the person who is expecting a carry gets kicked & replaced.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

If the new players just AFK'ing fine. If he's actually playing but he sucks; save your lectures for situations where the group is legitimately struggling without his help. If a lecture from you isn't necessary, and the new player isn't interested, it's not really your place to force anything.

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Yeah, no - not going to deal with players who want to be lazy because they can. That's not how it works.

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

The bonus isn't worth the carry.
Either way we are going to clear the dungeon, but just with a different person when the person who is expecting a carry gets kicked & replaced.



Yeah, no - not going to deal with players who want to be lazy because they can. That's not how it works.

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Treat new players however you want. I didn't think I'd be changing anyone's mind here; I'm just of the opinion that this community is terrible. This conversation is just reaffirming that with a lot of your terrible attitudes towards new players. This is the kind of petty, stupid crap I'm talking about. But go ahead, be a tryhard calling out new players unnecessarily in low level story content. It's super impressive.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

The bar is damn low in story content for a reason. Because new players struggling, dying and thus not contributing very effectively to the group are forced to run it with other people. So, by making it so easy you'd clear it with no issue even if the new person fell asleep, you have no reason to bother the new player.

I get it, though. Calling out people makes you feel important. ; )

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I don't understand this logic. It's an MMO - what did you expect when you joined it? If the bar is set so low that it's at the bottom of the deepest trench and you still can't do it. Then maybe the game honestly isn't for you? I'm not trying to sound harsh or mean, but I literally do not understand this.

I find that if you sign up for the duty finder then you agree that you have some sort of basic knowledge and know-how to be able to do the most basic of things in this game. If you can't do that then why sign up for the duty? I couldn't do that, I'd be too embarrassed and ashamed if I was like that - I'm still like this today. I don't understand how people can be fine and actually complain when people complain about them doing below the minimum that is expected of them.

Finally, it's not 'new players' - you can't hide behind that. I've found plenty of new players who've taken to the game like fish and water. It's a difference in mindset. Some improve and strive for improvement. Some are fine being below mediocre and make no attempt to go beyond that.

Edit:
You have tooltips that tell you what to press and when you're given guides and information from the square which tell you the most basic of information on your rotation. There is a 'training' area which gives you gear and the likes that tells you the basic mechanics and the likes of the game. You can see every single attack coming your way, you know where the AoE is going to hit. You can see the cast bars. You have dummies to hit and practise your rotation. Your hotbars light up when you start a combo and direct you to what you can press next. The list goes on and on.

And you don't get to edit on how it's now about 'low story' content, you don't get to move the goal posts like that. I've barely seen any newbie die in low story content because the bar is so low. The only thing I've ever seen someone die is during titan because you can be thrown off. And this one time the dps were asleep during ifrit nails - and they weren't even new. Those that do tend to die are those who don't listen. Also who the heck is running a dps meter in low-level content?

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Treat new players however you want. I didn't think I'd be changing anyone's mind here; I'm just of the opinion that this community is terrible. This conversation is just reaffirming that with a lot of your terrible attitudes towards new players. This is the kind of petty, stupid crap I'm talking about. But go ahead, be a tryhard calling out new players unnecessarily in story content. It's super impressive.

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I'm sure another community will welcome your minimal effort attitude.

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

I don't understand this logic. It's an MMO - what did you expect when you joined it? If the bar is set so low that it's at the bottom of the deepest trench and you still can't do it. Then maybe the game honestly isn't for you? I'm not trying to sound harsh or mean, but I literally do not understand this.

I find that if you sign up for the duty finder then you agree that you have some sort of basic knowledge and know-how to be able to do the most basic of things in this game. If you can't do that then why sign up for the duty? I couldn't do that, I'd be too embarrassed and ashamed if I was like that - I'm still like this today. I don't understand how people can be fine and actually complain when people complain about them doing below the minimum that is expected of them.

Finally, it's not 'new players' - you can't hide behind that. I've found plenty of new players who've taken to the game like fish and water. It's a difference in mindset. Some improve and strive for improvement. Some are fine being below mediocre and make no attempt to go beyond that.

Edit:
You have tooltips that tell you what to press and when you're given guides and information from the square which tell you the most basic of information on your rotation. There is a 'training' area which gives you gear and the likes that tells you the basic mechanics and the likes of the game. You can see every single attack coming your way, you know where the AoE is going to hit. You can see the cast bars. You have dummies to hit and practise your rotation. Your hotbars light up when you start a combo and direct you to what you can press next. The list goes on and on.

And you don't get to edit on how it's now about 'low story' content, you don't get to move the goal posts like that. I've barely seen any newbie die in low story content because the bar is so low. The only thing I've ever seen someone die is during titan because you can be thrown off. And this one time the dps were asleep during titan nails - and they weren't even new.

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So, the content is so easy that you can clear it easily even if someone in the group sucks. Do you A) just let the new person have fun, or B) lecture him regardless of whether or not he wants a lecture?

It's a game and the content is trivial. He's not effecting your fun and you're getting a bonus for helping him. It's really not THAT hard to just not be a self-important jackass.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

So, the content is so easy that you can clear it easily even if someone in the group sucks. Do you A) just let the new person have fun, or B) lecture him regardless of whether or not he wants a lecture?

It's a game and the content is trivial. He's not effecting your fun and you're getting a bonus for helping him. It's really not THAT hard to just not be a self-important jackass.

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You say that, but you've never spent 2 hours wiping in 24 man raids because you get grouped up with a bunch of those people who never bothered to learn mechanics and expect the rest of the group to be able to carry them, or don't understand they are bad cuz people stopped trying to help because of attitudes like yours.

Agree OP. Stuff like this could be fine in a perfect world, but people just can't control themselves.

Just get rid of it all together.

It's a shame for the people who don't abuse it, but some people is ruining it for them.

I wish someone would just do the right thing and purge third party programs.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

So, the content is so easy that you can clear it easily even if someone in the group sucks. Do you A) just let the new person have fun, or B) lecture him regardless of whether or not he wants a lecture?

It's a game and the content is trivial. He's not effecting your fun and you're getting a bonus for helping him. It's really not THAT hard to just not be a self-important jackass.

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I tell him what he's doing incorrectly in the nicest way possible. 'Hey, eat the fruit on the second stack so you don't die.' - 'Hey, don't pull ahead of me, these guys hurt.' - 'Hey, just throw out some cures and we should be fine there.'
Most are fine with it. If they make a mistake they tend to go 'I'm sorry, I'm new!' or 'Sorry, it's been a while.' And then they listen to people in the group and improve as a player because now they know what to do.
If your argument is 'Hmph, I don't want to hear it.' Then guess what buddy, the person being polite to you and giving you advice isn't the one being the butt.

When someone ignores my help and continues to keep dying to the very thing that we keep explaining to them about, they're making the situation harder for me/team to carry them - then yeah, they're now effecting my fun and the fun of the others. It's really not THAT hard to not be a self-important jackass and listen. It's not fun to be ignored.

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

I tell him what he's doing incorrectly in the nicest way possible. 'Hey, eat the fruit on the second stack so you don't die.' - 'Hey, don't pull ahead of me, these guys hurt.' - 'Hey, just throw out some cures and we should be fine there.'
Most are fine with it. If they make a mistake they tend to go 'I'm sorry, I'm new!' And then they listen to people in the group and improve as a player because now they know what to do.
If your argument is 'Hmph, I don't want to hear it.' Then guess what buddy, the person being polite to you and giving you advice isn't the one being the butt.

When someone ignores my help and continues to keep dying and making the situation harder for me to carry them - then yeah, they're now effecting my fun. It's really not THAT hard to not be a self-important jackass and listen.

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You should be doing what I do. Let them die, and then don't raise them. They pull ahead of you? Let them tank for awhile, purposefully avoid hitting any of their adds - if it's a dps let them die, if it's the healer let them face tank IF you don't want to wipe let them tank it for a little while then pick it up, as a statement. They complain about not being raised? Continue to not raise them. Swiftcast is an important CD that could be better spent on a glare. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

I tell him what he's doing incorrectly in the nicest way possible. 'Hey, eat the fruit on the second stack so you don't die.' - 'Hey, don't pull ahead of me, these guys hurt.' - 'Hey, just throw out some cures and we should be fine there.'
Most are fine with it. If they make a mistake they tend to go 'I'm sorry, I'm new!' And then they listen to people in the group and improve as a player because now they know what to do.
If your argument is 'Hmph, I don't want to hear it.' Then guess what buddy, the person being polite to you and giving you advice isn't the one being the butt.

When someone ignores my help and continues to keep dying and making the situation harder for me to carry them - then yeah, they're now effecting my fun. It's really not THAT hard to not be a self-important jackass and listen.

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Nothing wrong with mentioning mechanics before a boss fight. So, what do you do if the new player still screws it up and dies. How important is it that he realizes he's bad to you, or do you just skip all that and kick him?

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Originally Posted by Skogli

Agree OP. Stuff like this could be fine in a perfect world, but people just can't control themselves.

Just get rid of it all together.

It's a shame for the people who don't abuse it, but some people is ruining it for them.

I wish someone would just do the right thing and purge third party programs.

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Can we get rid of discord too then? It's a third party program. In fact, no outside voice communication is allowed, cuz that's toxic. And no more 3rd party websites either. Reddit is toxic too. Actually, just get rid of the chat box entirely, and hide people's names, cuz being able to talk in game causes toxicity.


It's a shame for all those who don't abuse these features, but some people ruined it for them.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

You should be doing what I do. Let them die, and then don't raise them. They pull ahead of you? Let them tank for awhile, purposefully avoid hitting any of their adds - if it's a dps let them die, if it's the healer let them face tank IF you don't want to wipe let them tank it for a little while then pick it up, as a statement. They complain about not being raised? Continue to not raise them. Swiftcast is an important CD that could be better spent on a glare. :)

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I wish I could do this, but I'm a soft heart in dungeons. If they don't listen and continue to not listen I will kick them out though. It takes a lot for me to do that. I'm talking about the player is being straight-up unpleasant and just not listening to a single thing and then getting overly aggressive when told on how to avoid the said situation in the future.

This is why I don't wear the BK crown anymore.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Nothing wrong with mentioning mechanics before a boss fight. So, what do you do if the new player still screws it up and dies. How important is it that he realizes he's bad to you, or do you just skip all that and kick him?

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Doesn't matter, you're mentioning low-level dungeons which means low-level trials. Most for which can be carried. I'll just explain it to you when you're dead. Or if we wipe. Most listen. But there's always the one who doesn't get it. I will just blacklist them if they're being overly unpleasant. It's the higher-end content where this becomes an issue, this is where you get kicked.

Ya know, it just dawned on me... I had kicked a healer a few days ago from group, since called them out for walking in circles and dying all the time. Just noticed OP is in the same data center as me, wonder if my kicking them led to this thread lol.

Tip from a fellow PS4 player: you can get a wireless keyboard to use for chat. It's still a hassle to type and play with a controller, but it'll definitely help you interact more.

My apologies for your experience. There was a time when parsers weren't even spoken of outside of statics. But it really seemed to skyrocket during SB.

Op the only time ive seen this is in savage or ex.Im sorry to hear in your data centre people do this in casual df content but the best thing you can do is screenshot the chat and report them.Its bannable offense so that should deal with the players.
Also removing damage metres wont stop people from being toxic.It's merely a tool toxic players use to be abusive.If they didnt have that they'd find some other ecuse to harrass players.It's not the damage metre caussing this.The intent already exists in those players.

It's also had advantages in gauging issues with job balance and likely without that feedback SE wouldnt have adressed some of the job issues that ahve existed over the years if players didnt know through that data.

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Originally Posted by Rivxkobe

/pats

Too be so innocent.

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Originally Posted by RoyalBeef

You dont group with randoms often, do you?

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Not sure why I had two people both taking that out of its context, re: a lv70-80 player in a learning dungeon and why they probably don't need their parser if they are. But let me expand then. Most players that I know who parse for self improvement don't have ACT up at all times. They only have it up when they want to check their numbers for prog, or if they want to experiment with a new skill/spell speed tier. Most of my own raid group will start to slip on running ACT as we consistently clear savage fights to the point where there are weeks no one parsed a fight, and there are no logs shown. As they have these jobs well over the leveling dungeon requirement and can play them by heart, why would they need their parsers at low levels? They don't.

They certainly don't care what the other dps's numbers are, because if the run has taken 5-10 minutes longer than it should have you've already zero'd in on a player or two causing issues. It's been said in here that you don't need ACT to notice performance issues, and in some cases it's sad how easy that's true. No aoeing mobs? No healer dps? Tank is capable of large pulls but does 1-3? The brd is watching Netflix and auto attacking?? Someone is so under geared you want to cry? (I've seen this last one SO MANY TIMES in SB and have been seeing it in ShB more than I'd like!) The samurai/blm has dancer tether but has less aggro on a boss/trial fight than said dancer? The list goes on.

Royal this was specifically low lv content. I have been the person complaining in discord and linkshell chat about every other job in a df or pf group. I understand the frustration a lot of you are bringing in here, but it was mostly misplaced in this thread until it was derailed by the other posters and rerouted into 'why we need parsing:endgame and all your griping about fail players!'.

Low level content. Everyone kindly attempt to be decent human beings to learning players; it's not that hard of a concept. The ToS doesn't in any way prevent constructive advice, it's been mod checked. So the people lamenting on not being able to 'call out' people for their performance can talk to their group on how to improve, just don't be rude about it.

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I reckon a large part of players will be able to quickly determine the performance of a player just from looking at his rotation, buff/DoT uptimes, position, movement etc.

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Yeah.

I dont need a parser to know if you're a potato.

Parsing helps a lot to see just how badly they're playing, but "WHO is awful" is easy to spot.

I have to speak up here. OP you keep saying the community is so horrid and that's just not true for all of FFXIV. I know that I am on Leviathan and have very rarely run into people who won't let a new person learn. I'm disabled and have serious nerve damage in my arms that makes it hard for me to play and yet I still haven't run into these horrible people you are describing. Maybe you are just on the wrong server.

Good thing that I play in a Japanese server. Never seen people discussing damage meter in a duty even once.

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Originally Posted by Silvarion

Good thing that I play in a Japanese server. Never seen people discussing damage meter in a duty even once.

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To be fair on that, the Japanese player base seems to be better about pulling their weight. You almost never hear 'you don't pay my sub' anecdotes coming from those clusters and a lot of Savage last tier was, from what I heard, puggable over there. Even up to the last tier.

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Originally Posted by Enla

To be fair on that, the Japanese player base seems to be better about pulling their weight. You almost never hear 'you don't pay my sub' anecdotes coming from those clusters and a lot of Savage last tier was, from what I heard, puggable over there. Even up to the last tier.

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It is and isn't that.

Most Japanese players care about "the party" rather than personal progression. If a run takes 5 extra minutes then it's not a big deal. They are the best, most welcoming, playerbase I have ever seen.

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Originally Posted by HWalsh

It is and isn't that.

Most Japanese players care about "the party" rather than personal progression. If a run takes 5 extra minutes then it's not a big deal. They are the best, most welcoming, playerbase I have ever seen.

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Publicly maybe. They have their own elitisms. Shaming and blacklisting websites and the like.

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Originally Posted by HWalsh

It is and isn't that.

Most Japanese players care about "the party" rather than personal progression. If a run takes 5 extra minutes then it's not a big deal. They are the best, most welcoming, playerbase I have ever seen.

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Ahh, yes - the Japanese playerbase with a website dedicated to blacklisting players who perform poorly.

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Originally Posted by HWalsh

It is and isn't that.

Most Japanese players care about "the party" rather than personal progression. If a run takes 5 extra minutes then it's not a big deal. They are the best, most welcoming, playerbase I have ever seen.

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As a japanese player... wut? I mean thanks for the compliment, but blowing smoke up our bums doesn't make it true lol

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Originally Posted by Silvarion

Good thing that I play in a Japanese server. Never seen people discussing damage meter in a duty even once.

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Never seen it on Cerberus either.
Last time s/o raged about DPS was back in ARR/Odin and he only raged because it was pretty obvious since the spears didn't die quickly enough and wiped the group.
No parser needed for that one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HWalsh

It is and isn't that.

Most Japanese players care about "the party" rather than personal progression. If a run takes 5 extra minutes then it's not a big deal. They are the best, most welcoming, playerbase I have ever seen.

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You got that wrong, what Japanese people value is personal responsibility and not holding the group back, also, is a community that favoured the safest way to clear something, not the fastest.

As someone already pointed out if you perform badly you will end in a nice blacklist.

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

Ahh, yes - the Japanese playerbase with a website dedicated to blacklisting players who perform poorly.

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what? is there any website for blacklisted player? wow

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

Ahh, yes - the Japanese playerbase with a website dedicated to blacklisting players who perform poorly.

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Still a hell of a lot less toxic than many in NA. If you're a bad player in NA, you'll often get insulted and kicked. If you're a bad player in JP, and if the content can be cleared despite your bad playing, you'll just be tolerated and then blacklisted at the end of the instance without a word. Also, the tolerance level of "bad player" is much higher in JP servers. You have to be really, really bad and not listen to any advice at all/make the same mistakes repeatedly to get BL'd compared to NA servers where you'll be insulted kicked for something as simple as pulling single groups of mobs (aka not wall-pulling).

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Still a hell of a lot less toxic than many in NA. If you're a bad player in NA, you'll often get insulted and kicked. If you're a bad player in JP, and if the content can be cleared despite your bad playing, you'll just be tolerated and then blacklisted at the end of the instance without a word. Also, the tolerance level of "bad player" is much higher in JP servers. You have to be really, really bad and not listen to any advice at all/make the same mistakes repeatedly to get BL'd compared to NA servers where you'll be insulted kicked for something as simple as pulling single groups of mobs (aka not wall-pulling).

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I think it's pretty much even honestly. See more getting kicked on Durandal then see on Zalera. Older communities have less of a tolerance I feel then newer ones is all.

Prime example. Someone was removed from group on Durandal since they didn't have the level 70 Poetics gear and have it upgrade to iLevel 400. For the level 71 Shadowbringers dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Komarimono

I think it's pretty much even honestly. See more getting kicked on Durandal then see on Zalera. Older communities have less of a tolerance I feel then newer ones is all.

Prime example. Someone was removed from group on Durandal since they didn't have the level 70 Poetics gear and have it upgrade to iLevel 400. For the level 71 Shadowbringers dungeon.

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Anything can be asserted based on anecdotes, unfortunately. There are always exceptions depending on server when you're speaking in general.

As for your example... what WAS said player wearing? (that matters more than the "standard" they were supposedly comparing to). And what other behavior contributed? Was there wipes? The player wasn't playing well?

Because I find it extremely hard to believe that they were kicked without a word or before a wipe just from someone randomly examining their gear (assuming the gear wasn't level 60 stuff or something).

I was forced to heal a tank in a level 70 dungeon who had level 60 GNB coffer gear (the 255 stuff). I put up with it because I could barely keep him alive, but I immediately blacklisted him afterward. No excuse for something like that.

Parsers should be completely legal and part of the base game. Yes. I'll say it again. SE needs to add parsers in game. Especially for ps4 users.
Just hear me out.

Pc players can parse RIGHT NOW. They have access to additional information that ps4 players cannot have and SE cannot detect it. Its not possible to know who is parsing unless the person in question implies so in game.

There is nothing SE can do to stop the parsers. You will deal with it. That is a fact. There is nothing you or anyone else can do about it to change it. The only thing SE can do is ban people who say that they are parsing/harassing others for weak dps.

It doesnt sound fair, but Pc still have access to this information and even if you wanted to as a ps4 user, you cannot. As it is, again, you cannot do anything about it. Simply learn to deal with it. Still doesnt feel fair right?

Being told you suck. Not having the resources to see if its true or not. Not being able to know for sure if you raise your numbers when experimenting. Getting kicked because of any number of these things.

Ps4 user NEED parsers to leveling the playing field. That is a fact.
Having access to additional information is a BENEFIT. A benefit ps4 does not have. Even if you disagree with parsing or if you have been kicked before because of numbers you still cannot deny the benefit.

Both systems need the same options. Period.

People are worried about being treated bad by players who kick, insult, blacklist, etc, for bad parses or gameplay. This still does not change anything. You're still going to play with pc users who parse. You will not always know who and some of them will of course abuse the parsers. Even if they become acceptable.

Banning people for interfering with another's gameplay and harassment are already on the terms of service. SE can clearly see who is harassing somebody in some cases. There are a few where people silently kick and say nothing. That will not change either. Some of them will get banned and some will not. You're still going to deal with it.

Would you rather deal with it with the same access to information or would you rather deal with it while being gimped on ps4?
Its not 100% fair either way. There will be unpleasant things in either scenario. That's life.

In order to make it the best scenario possible, SE will have to give both platforms the same playing field and enforce good behavior where possible. If SE keeps banning users for harassing players who put in low numbers, that is the best that they could do. Even now the silent parsers are getting away with it as we speak and the abusers are abusing it until somebody hits the report button.
By adding support for ps4 users. We will see more players who use parsers. That includes people who misuse the system as well as those who genuinely want to get better. Should we deny our fellow players access to something (im assuming roughly half) half of the player base has access to because of SEs lack of rule enforcement or should we demand equality among our player-base and proper moderation?

You cannot stop pc players. Thats not an option. It will not happen. That is a fact. So in the end, you have 2 options:

1)gimp ps4 users and deal with it
2)allow it and make people behave.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Still a hell of a lot less toxic than many in NA. If you're a bad player in NA, you'll often get insulted and kicked. If you're a bad player in JP, and if the content can be cleared despite your bad playing, you'll just be tolerated and then blacklisted at the end of the instance without a word. Also, the tolerance level of "bad player" is much higher in JP servers. You have to be really, really bad and not listen to any advice at all to get BL'd compared to NA serves where you'll be insulted kicked for something as simple as pulling single groups of mobs (aka not wall-pulling).

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If someone insults another player and is reported the ban is 100% granted. With this I mind I really doubt the scenario is that common. Silent kicks, on the other hand, are probably more frequent. IMO if a party don't want me all i can do is to move on.

However, I will add this: when a player is repeatedly being kicked from parties is this person fault.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Anything can be asserted based on anecdotes, unfortunately. There are always exceptions depending on server when you're speaking in general.

As for your example... what WAS said player wearing? (that matters more than the "standard" they were supposedly comparing to). And what other behavior contributed? Was there wipes? The player wasn't playing well?

Because I find it extremely hard to believe that they were kicked without a word or before a wipe just from someone randomly examining their gear (assuming the gear wasn't level 60 stuff or something).

I was forced to heal a tank in a level 70 dungeon who had level 60 GNB coffer gear (the 255 stuff). I put up with it because I could barely keep him alive, but I immediately blacklisted him afterward. No excuse for something like that.

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They were wearing just the fresh level 70 Job gear, given at attaining level 70. Once the healer saw their low HP and only fresh 70 gear they did the boot. Simple as that, no questions asked, nothing spoken until after they were dismissed from group.