Is it me or has the community gotten worse...

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

They can and will, and punishment can be meted out as per the words of the ToS.

"Even if it was not the intention, a penalty may be imposed if the end result was that another person was hurt or obstructed."

If someone /feels/ that their feelings were hurt, or that they were slighted, they can and will report you for anything.

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they can report all they want, but those GM who handle reports do not blindly just ban every report they have

from what i can tell, they actually pull up chat log to look into each case

This games community has always had a veneer of fake positivity and kindness up until some sort of perceived slight. You can say anything in the least confrontational way and people will still take it wrong and flip out on you or even report you now. It's why I gave up mentoring and talking to people in DF for the most part since I'm tired of people freaking out at me over the smallest things. It's just really not worth it anymore.

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Originally Posted by Sathona

Arent those the "you dont pay my sub" ppl? xD

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Even Urianger is one of them.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...4709326558.png

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

Sometimes, the toxic players are the ones doing the reporting, and they don't belong to any partucular group. Working things out is better than simply reporting, when plausible.

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This. There was a guy pulling a bunch of mobs towards where a Eureka fate was going to spawn on purpose, so I pulled them myself and took them away from the fate and started killing the mobs.

Some other random dude reported me saying that I had pulled them all to the fate in the first place (I didn't). When I explained that I was actually taking them away from the fate, not dragging them in, he then said that he then reported me for not holding aggro on all the stuff I was pulling away.
When I said "Dude I am a bard, I don't have enmity abilities, I was just trying to be nice to people in the fate" He started telling others to report me, and others said they did report me as well. DX
I never got contacted by a GM over it at least, so I commend the GM who read the reports and didn't punish me for other player's false accusations.

The guy who pulled all the mobs in the first place actually admitted to it, apologised to me, saying he only meant it as a bit of fun, and felt bad that I got dragged into it. Maybe it was his admission that kept me from the ban hammer XD. I didn't report the guy, since he apologised and everything.

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Originally Posted by Disc_Hunter

Let me get this straight:

1. You let bad behavior "roll off your back" without addressing it.
2. You mock and insult players who report bad behavior.
3. You claim that you're not encouraging bad behavior.

1) and 2) don't add up to 3) here. Try again.

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What you fail to get is what you define as what should be reported and what I define differ. I dont care if someone is a jerk in a one off. You do. You see that behavior as "It needs to be corrected," where I see it as "Guys a jerk. Oh well, thats his problem."

Of the players I do 'mock', it's the ones who cant handle any level of negativity. Even the mere hint of "You suck" is to much for their sensibilities. Why spend minutes or even hours getting so angry and upset and pissed at what some stranger who spent 4 seconds to type out "You suck" or "Another Carried DPS" or whatever. What is being accomplished by filing that report? Are you doing this for the sake of the community and correcting bad behavior or for your own personal feelings? Are you really 'correcting' the issue or just emotionally satisfying yourself? And to be clear, Im not mocking people for reporting targetted harassment or severely reprehensible language (harsh racial/identity slurs and the like). That stuff should be addressed by a GM. That is worth addressing as a community but it requires that we understand that there is nuance and that a targetted harassment or racial slurs (as is the go to talking point when discussing Toxicity) and someone telling you to "git gud" or "you suck". Saying that both are just as bad and require the same means to address it is a terrible idea to me. Part of fixing this issue, to me, requires people 'fix' themselves. Words become a lot less scary and powerful if we dont let them hold sway over us.

There's nuance to my position. I feel youre just failing to acknowledge it, either through naivety or purposefully being obtuse. As I said, Im not encouraging bad behavior in the slightest. Im dealing with an issue in my way, and think that this way to approach a problem is far more ideal and better for the community than your way. Thats all there is to it. If you dont like it, well ok. Then you do you. Ill still continue to think that at best your way is silly, and at worst itll lead to problems, but thats how it is.

The forums used to be a good resource for information, but now it's just a place where bored mentors and raiders check to flex their elitism lol. Reading this thread kinda proves they're the problem. It's not the Roleplayers, The PS4 Players, the New Players, The Crafters, The Gatherers, The Housing Enthusiasts or the people who like to just mod their outfits. Nope, its always been and forever will be the Raiders and Mentors.

Not saying All Raiders and Mentors are Elitist and Toxic. Just most if not all of the Toxic/Elitist ppl on the game and on this forums are Raiders and Mentors.

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Originally Posted by RareItems

The forums used to be a good resource for information, but now it's just a place where bored mentors and raiders check to flex their elitism lol. Reading this thread kinda proves they're the problem. It's not the Roleplayers, The PS4 Players, the New Players, The Crafters, The Gatherers, The Housing Enthusiasts or the people who like to just mod their outfits. Nope, its always been and forever will be the Raiders and Mentors.

Not saying All Raiders and Mentors are Elitist and Toxic. Just most if not all of the Toxic/Elitist ppl on the game and on this forums are Raiders and Mentors.

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Aren't you being toxic here, pointing fingers and being all like everyone but ME, and hating others because they like something else? #notallraiders

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Originally Posted by RareItems

The forums used to be a good resource for information, but now it's just a place where bored mentors and raiders check to flex their elitism lol. Reading this thread kinda proves they're the problem. It's not the Roleplayers, The PS4 Players, the New Players, The Crafters, The Gatherers, The Housing Enthusiasts or the people who like to just mod their outfits. Nope, its always been and forever will be the Raiders and Mentors.

Not saying All Raiders and Mentors are Elitist and Toxic. Just most if not all of the Toxic/Elitist ppl on the game and on this forums are Raiders and Mentors.

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My savage raiding experience has been more pleasant than me word for word asking people in roulettes if they "want tips on how to play their class", and instead get passive aggressive responses for wanting to help. Of course, if they say no, I wont say nothin'.

Not a mentor, btw. Just a casual savage raider that's progging E4S atm.

Sure, this happened maybe to just me. Maybe I'm missing all of the people you're talking about. But idk, dude. I think theres bad apples all around. Not just Savage raiders and mentors. But casual players too. And as far as majorities go, theres FAR less mentors and savage raiders than there are just normal people, who mayhap don't know how to play their class well.

But, y'know. God forbid you reach out a hand, else they might bite. Which, doesn't happen so often, but it does happen.

Things are so much more than just black and white than what you are laying them out to be, and if you consider it otherwise after being told, you are just in denial. Sorry.

Great community btw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH8tLmG0TRY

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Originally Posted by Saintly

I wonder how long it'll take till crybabies start reporting whole groups for kicking them without saying anything.

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Let's be honest here: Being expelled from a group without mentioning what's going on is a bad attitude and another problem of either the anonymous internet community or the lack of character and missed parenting. I cringe when some obviously dumb kids are the tank because it feels "wrong" when the team leader throws tantrums and I imagine him looking like from the BOSS BABY theatrical posters, just less determined.
When your boss fires you for no reason and you ask why or use legal means to stop this - in your view - unjustified or sudden and forced removal, are you a crybaby then? When you appeal for a parking ticket, are you a crybaby? When you get pulled over by the cops for nothing everday, is it also being a crybaby? Courts are places for crybabies? The entire legal sytem is, too? "Suck it up"?

No, Sir.

In my entire time here, I've been kicked maybe 3 or 4 times. Once since I came back, and that was solely for the reason there were 4 guys in (the long!) Castrum and they booted me because they could. We had some banter (EDIT: I may clarify they mocked me because of being Lalafell and I had clever, non-offensive responses to each of their taunts) which they turned into serious business pretty quickly and I lost like 40 minutes for no valid reasons. Of course I reported all of the 3 that were obviously together and involved. I had no other option because I was alone there, so should I eat every abuse because I have no unjustified kick option as minority?

The question is: Who is the "crybaby"? The guys that kick everyone on the instant when something's not going their way or their victim, hm?


Sincerely,
https://imgur.com/HTju1aB.png

There is more elitism I would say. Or maybe I was just lucky all the years before.

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Originally Posted by MrKusakabe

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I don't really know how to response when you compare a video game to real life, so ill just be sarcastic.

The other day a Marlboro had entered in my yard and almost devoured my pet Coeruleus.
Thankfully an adventurer was passing by, twelve bless him and without a second though attacked and slayed the damn thing.
Unfortunately he was in a hurry and didn't even have the time to ask his name, but at least he accepted 5 Allagan bronze pieces as reward.

Also why would anyone right in his mind give a reason before kicking someone when it'll only get him in trouble/banned?

"We kick you cause you are the only one who keep failing mechanics after 20 wipes." - Reported.
"We kick you cause you have less DPS with SAM that our healers." - Reported.
"We kick you cause you fail to pull even your basic combo." - Reported.
"We kick you cause you go afk every 5 min." - Reported.

And before anyone say you can get reported for the above, you might want to say that to those who claim that they are free to play anyway that they want as long as they pay their sub.
If i have learned anything in this game, is never, ever talk a single word when you are not in a full pre-made party.

And last but not least, sorry but people who join content which they clearly lack the gear/skill to clear and expected to get carried and waste everyone's time, they are not victims.
People who got sick and tired of giving others a free ride though content suddenly became "offensive and toxic".

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Originally Posted by Saintly

I don't really know how to response when you compare a video game to real life, so ill just be sarcastic.

The other day a Marlboro had entered in my yard and almost devoured my pet Coeruleus.
Thankfully an adventurer was passing by, twelve bless him and without a second though attacked and slayed the damn thing.
Unfortunately he was in a hurry and didn't even have the time to ask his name, but at least he accepted 5 Allagan bronze pieces as reward.

Also why would anyone right in his mind give a reason before kicking someone when it'll only get him in trouble/banned?

"We kick you cause you are the only one who keep failing mechanics after 20 wipes." - Reported.
"We kick you cause you have less DPS with SAM that our healers." - Reported.
"We kick you cause you fail to pull even your basic combo." - Reported.
"We kick you cause you go afk every 5 min." - Reported.

And before anyone say you can get reported for the above, you might want to say that to those who claim that they are free to play anyway that they want as long as they pay their sub.
If i have learned anything in this game, is never, ever talk a single word when you are not in a full pre-made party.

And last but not least, sorry but people who join content which they clearly lack the gear/skill to clear and expected to get carried and waste everyone's time, they are not victims.
People who got sick and tired of giving others a free ride though content suddenly became "offensive and toxic".

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Just going to point out of the four scenarios you wrote only the second would get you in trouble
the other three could get reported till the end of time and the subsequent investigation would absolve you of any blame. They do thoroughly investigate the full reports.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

Even Urianger is one of them.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...4709326558.png

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Atleast Urianger is trying to find a way to walk upon the water~
Others just act big and macho -insert saw the line on ERB video

I find it hard to believe that anyone has been actually banned or punished for giving purely neutral advice to another party member. And I find it just as hard to believe that people are going into duty finder and consistently coming across unpleasant or nasty people.

As for the rest should someone really need to justify feeling upset or offended? I’m not sure there’s much to be had in trying to rationalise an irrational emotion. If we’re going to argue that people need ‘legitimate reason’ to be upset, surely we also have to argue that people should have ‘legitimate reason’ to be angry about it? People will feel the way they do regardless of how they think it’s going to be perceived by others, especially online where they aren’t subject to the same rules they would be in the ‘real world’ due to things like enforceability (they can’t survey the chat logs of of the entire game all at the same time to see if someone’s trolling). I think of everyone around me on an MMO as characters rather than representations of the player’s itself and identity, and ultimately I think it’s easy to see why people do the things they do from this perspective. I think this kind of perspective is something that developers naturally through extended play and can be quite implicit. I feel like maybe other players feel this way too, maybe without even realising it. When people are ‘trolling’, they’re doing it as whichever character they’ve taken themselves to being at that time, and not as one human being to another. I know there’s always the idea that people are inherently selfish and mean, but there’s plenty of evidence to the contrary (though that’s a different discussion entirely lol).

Basically what I’m saying is I think when people are ‘mean’ online it’s because they’re starting to develop a disconnect between the human behind the screen and the characters themselves. I’m not trying to justify it, because ultimately you should always be aware that the people around you are - well - people, and they’re going to have their own feelings about your actions regardless of what you think they should feel. No amount of telling people to get thicker skin will stop that, because you can’t just change a person’s entire mindset and perception of things with a single sentence (though wouldn’t that be nice lol).

In terms of reporting I’m not sure the GM’s are so callous as to ban everyone who was ever reported regardless of the circumstances. If you haven’t done anything wrong, I can’t see them just banning people. And if you have done something wrong, I’m sure (I hope at least) that the GM’s would take the time to explain the circumstances that lead to that decision and maybe how to avoid it in future

Disclaimer All statements are made based purely on my own opinions and perceptions of things and as such I do not endorse it as being representative of the community at the large or anyone other than myself. I am not suggesting that any of these statements are inherently ‘true’ beyond my own perception of them.

Additionally is it just me or have the word ‘toxic’ lost all its meaning? I used to think of something powerfully corrosive and dangerous to the wellbeing of those around it. But I’ve seen it so much recently now I just think of that Britney Spears song...

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Originally Posted by Connor

Additionally is it just me or have the word ‘toxic’ lost all its meaning? I used to think of something powerfully corrosive and dangerous to the wellbeing of those around it. But I’ve seen it so much recently now I just think of that Britney Spears song...

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It's just become an attack on people you disagree with.

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Originally Posted by Connor

I find it hard to believe that anyone has been actually banned or punished for giving purely neutral advice to another party member. And I find it just as hard to believe that people are going into duty finder and consistently coming across unpleasant or nasty people.

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Same. Maybe we're both just super-incredibly lucky, but I'm more likely to believe that the community at large isn't as toxic as some people claim. In fact, if I had a complaint about the community, it's that too many people seem to be afraid to be social at all. Half the reason I play an MMO is because I like interacting with other players...hell, all of my most memorable times in any MMO involved other players talking, whether it's the RP person (not my forte, but it's still appreciated), the person who pokes fun at the NPCs ("Thrall needs a speed boost" / "Cid, Cid, he's our man! If Cid can't do it, Nero can!"), the person who just talks about the story, etc. (no spoilers right after content comes out please!)...or even just the friendly person who says 'hello' and chats.

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Originally Posted by Connor

As for the rest should someone really need to justify feeling upset or offended? I’m not sure there’s much to be had in trying to rationalise an irrational emotion. If we’re going to argue that people need ‘legitimate reason’ to be upset, surely we also have to argue that people should have ‘legitimate reason’ to be angry about it? People will feel the way they do regardless of how they think it’s going to be perceived by others, especially online where they aren’t subject to the same rules they would be in the ‘real world’ due to things like enforceability (they can’t survey the chat logs of of the entire game all at the same time to see if someone’s trolling).

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I think that's why the report system is the way it is. Personally, I have no problems speaking up if somebody isn't contributing, up to and including removal from a group for such (like the AST I removed last night from Praet on the 2nd to last boss because they were literally just standing there for an entire fight, said nothing, and went as far as to let me (the tank) die on the fight prior due to no healing whatsoever (when literally a single Aspected Benefic would've led to no deaths whatsoever).

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Originally Posted by Connor

Basically what I’m saying is I think when people are ‘mean’ online it’s because they’re starting to develop a disconnect between the human behind the screen and the characters themselves. I’m not trying to justify it, because ultimately you should always be aware that the people around you are - well - people, and they’re going to have their own feelings about your actions regardless of what you think they should feel. No amount of telling people to get thicker skin will stop that, because you can’t just change a person’s entire mindset and perception of things with a single sentence (though wouldn’t that be nice lol).

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While I do agree with you on this, I'd also note that if somebody is really that upset, they probably should develop some way to cope or "get thicker skin," not because I care or because some other stranger on the Internet cares...but for their own good. If I got offended to the extent that I needed to file a report every time somebody did something remotely offensive in this game...I'm not sure I would've made it out of Limsa Lominsa on my main yet in this game. I probably would've never made it out of Silvermoon City on my former main in WoW. My former main in ESO would probably still be in the starting city as well, and I'd still be on Dromand Kass in SWTOR. At some point there's a level of "yeah, this is wrong, but it's better to just ignore it or kick and move on" (like the AST last night, for example...I'd be fully within my rights to file a formal complaint about them to a GM, but it was easier to just replace them [and give the SCH that came in afterwards a hell of a lottery ticket for MSQ roulette]).

Basically...while certainly people aren't always the most well-behaved, and even rude sometimes...that's not what I would consider toxic and worth worrying about. Toxic would be like a certain FC on Leviathan (not naming names, just identifying what server they're on so if any of their members see this post they'll know I'm referring to them) telling me "member X who just joined but is friends with me doesn't like you, so we're removing you and your wife from the FC" after you'd helped them build where they are. In fact, outside of that very particular group of people (and even within them, two particular people within the leadership of said FC)...I've never seen a truly toxic person in this community whatsoever...and while I was gone during HW...I've otherwise been around since Titan HM was current content.

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Originally Posted by galbsadi

While I do agree with you on this, I'd also note that if somebody is really that upset, they probably should develop some way to cope or "get thicker skin," not because I care or because some other stranger on the Internet cares...but for their own good. If I got offended to the extent that I needed to file a report every time somebody did something remotely offensive in this game...I'm not sure I would've made it out of Limsa Lominsa on my main yet in this game. I probably would've never made it out of Silvermoon City on my former main in WoW. My former main in ESO would probably still be in the starting city as well, and I'd still be on Dromand Kass in SWTOR. At some point there's a level of "yeah, this is wrong, but it's better to just ignore it or kick and move on" (like the AST last night, for example...I'd be fully within my rights to file a formal complaint about them to a GM, but it was easier to just replace them [and give the SCH that came in afterwards a hell of a lottery ticket for MSQ roulette]).

Basically...while certainly people aren't always the most well-behaved, and even rude sometimes...that's not what I would consider toxic and worth worrying about. Toxic would be like a certain FC on Leviathan (not naming names, just identifying what server they're on so if any of their members see this post they'll know I'm referring to them) telling me "member X who just joined but is friends with me doesn't like you, so we're removing you and your wife from the FC" after you'd helped them build where they are. In fact, outside of that very particular group of people (and even within them, two particular people within the leadership of said FC)...I've never seen a truly toxic person in this community whatsoever...and while I was gone during HW...I've otherwise been around since Titan HM was current content.

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Yeah, I do agree that a certain degree of ‘thick skin’ is necessary, especially online. People will inevitably end up feeling one way or another about something, but it’s healthier to try to approach and approach the issue than try to avoid it completely. It’s easier said than done, but think in situations where someone is upset, letting people know that you’re upset and why is ultimately the best way to try and resolve the situation. And naturally, if someone’s in a situation where they let the party know that something they’ve done or said has upset them and the people keep doing it, then there’s probably a cause to report.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

It's just become an attack on people you disagree with.

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Which IMO is part of the problem. When the terminology starts encompassing more and more it becomes a lot less meaningful. See this in real life with other words but I digress.

Within gaming generally, anyone who has had BM at any time for any reason is all of a sudden "Toxic" now. It used to be anyone who had repeated behaviors that were outright volatile, such as throwing a fit mid content, wiping groups purposefully, being vindictive and feeding/causing a loss, spouting off diatribes of racial or sexist crap, etc. Now if someone mocks you, or hurts your feelings, or says to "Git Gud" or anything like that, its 'Toxic' behavior. I think this is a big problem because it causes people to lose perspective. As an example, a valuable one to have is that these forums are concentrated. You will see more frequency on forums of 'toxic' behavior because people who experience it I suspect are more likely to post. This creates a problem because if you experience someone who was mean to you and you go to the forums and find 50 other people who post their own stories, it gives you this 'vision' that the game is full of it. When in reality, those 50 incidents most likely dont even make up .1% of all player interactions.

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Originally Posted by Connor

...but it’s healthier to try to approach and approach the issue than try to avoid it completely. It’s easier said than done, but think in situations where someone is upset, letting people know that you’re upset and why is ultimately the best way to try and resolve the situation....

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Yes, this is called conflict resolution. It's something people learn by interacting with others and figuring out how to resolve conflicts. It's sorely lacking IMO now-a-days as people are much more prone to be passive aggressive or sweep something that's bothering them under the rug than address the issue. This isnt the same as deciding for yourself that you wont be bothered by it, but rather this is when you are bothered by something but wont address and instead let it fester.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

Which IMO is part of the problem. When the terminology starts encompassing more and more it becomes a lot less meaningful. See this in real life with other words but I digress.

Within gaming generally, anyone who has had BM at any time for any reason is all of a sudden "Toxic" now. It used to be anyone who had repeated behaviors that were outright volatile, such as throwing a fit mid content, wiping groups purposefully, being vindictive and feeding/causing a loss, spouting off diatribes of racial or sexist crap, etc. Now if someone mocks you, or hurts your feelings, or says to "Git Gud" or anything like that, its 'Toxic' behavior. I think this is a big problem because it causes people to lose perspective. As an example, a valuable one to have is that these forums are concentrated. You will see more frequency on forums of 'toxic' behavior because people who experience it I suspect are more likely to post. This creates a problem because if you experience someone who was mean to you and you go to the forums and find 50 other people who post their own stories, it gives you this 'vision' that the game is full of it. When in reality, those 50 incidents most likely dont even make up .1% of all player interactions.

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The word / acronym SJW and Alt Right are so meaningless to me these days lol (I understand there is a general root concept, as with other words like toxic). Similarly the "ist" words tend to be better to just mentally remove when heard because if it really is what they say you'll figure that out yourself but unfortunately it appears that lot of times its just an insult instead with no backing to the meaning it should have had. "I don't like them, the participating audience happens to have X difference that I noticed, therefore I can use Y-ist word"..

Agreed that the way we've set up our social interaction platforms has really exacerbated this confirmation bias. Someone says something you don't like? Down vote them into oblivion- purge them, in many cases you can remove them by doing this (reddit, reporting, etc). Scary yet though are these systems are open to manipulation and are not very transparent (so you can have bots, company bias, and sometimes both, affecting the social space without it being out in the open). Surround yourself by all that you agree with, go out to do 'battle' with other communities that have grown large enough to fight back. Come back to the bubble to share the worst of your enemy, lies okay, reinforce and restore notions, go back out for more 'war'.

We had these problems before the internet of course lol, happening in your social group (like a church or social movement), and it's not like these echo chambers have to be pure evil, many of these groups could be doing good.. Just now with the tools we have.. it's so easy to find and select exactly the people you want to agree with and to remove the people you don't (easier to form very narrow views, and to manipulate them, easier to vilify others, etc).

Part of the reason why I don't like reddit as a social platform to discuss heated things, the whole voting / moderating system raises a lot of red flags to me. That's just a personal thing though (I still enjoy a number of sub-reddits and there are many peaceful and diverse communities), and unfortunately I don't really have a suggestion that's like "this one will work without chaos~!" :3. Thinking different brings some amount of chaos, but if not a bit of chaos then just robots? Queue le shrug and sigh lol.

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Originally Posted by Connor

I find it hard to believe that anyone has been actually banned or punished for giving purely neutral advice to another party member. And I find it just as hard to believe that people are going into duty finder and consistently coming across unpleasant or nasty people.

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I can only speak for roulettes of ex, leveling etc. since I don't do ex or savage in PF.
I can count the # of abusive people I encountered in the last 5(?) years on one hand.

99.99% of all groups I'm in are quiet except for some Hello/Bye macros and just cruise through the content.
Sure you get no DPS healers, single group pull tanks or semi AFK DPS that do so little damage that it's an achievement in itself but stuff dies anyway, so I never say anything.

Even when wipes happen people rarely say much. They just run back and pick up where they left off.

Maybe it's a region specific issue? I also rarely had trouble in WoW and people here make it out to be this absurd cesspool of horrible behavior and griefing.
*shrugs and give a stoic MSQ look*

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

It's just become an attack on people you disagree with.

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Quoted for truth

We went from using toxic for people who were just downright terrible to using it for people using elementary level schoolyard insults to using it for people just being neutral but disagreeing. Remember when being polite was all you needed to talk to people? Remember when people made mistakes, people didn't try to socially crucify them even after they apologized?

Welcome to dystopia.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

Quoted for truth

We went from using toxic for people who were just downright terrible to using it for people using elementary level schoolyard insults to using it for people just being neutral but disagreeing. Remember when being polite was all you needed to talk to people? Remember when people made mistakes, people didn't try to socially crucify them even after they apologized?

Welcome to dystopia.

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People have become so sensitive that they need more than 200 for their blacklist. I only have 3 and those are people who I've met multiple times and they deliberately join prog or clear parties without actually reaching that phase and end up trapping the party.

Everyone more recently has gotten soft skin and are cranked to 11 on even the slightest comment. So much so that going on a subreddit like TalesfromDF you can see the amount of crap people have to put up with at times.

When you do enough rous and can actively point out when this one dungeon you've run over 50 times is moving slower then normal you have a natural instinct to find out why.

I'm in the camp of in general most people here are just neutral. We offer the advice because it's affecting both the person and ourselves. I'd offer a polite "Could I make a recommendation?" and after getting the ok "Your aoe moves will do much more damage with big pulls and it'll get us out of here a bit quicker." for example.

It's best to state that it's a party doing this together instead of just you. I'm sure all of us want to get on to something more important the a daily rou so stating in that way is the best to explain what the problem is and how fixing it can help us.

Had way too many situations where someone would say "You should aoe more" out of the blue to only be met with an sassy attitude and it only snowballs from there because it wasn't invited prior.

Am I going to call someone out for making this run longer then it should be? Yeah, but using choice phrases so I can kindly explain the issue and offer a solution. If they want to snap at me with the rude comments then that's all on their account, not mine.

The people who are reporting over those schoolyard insults are probably the same kind who ran to the teacher crying. They just grew up. That's why their blacklist is full. I literally - and I encounter a lot of truly "toxic" people - don't think I have even met enough "toxic" players that could even be worth adding to the blacklist to fill it up.

I think the only guys on my black list are a few gold spam bots that annoyed me when I had to stay in a capital for a while. :D

Te be honest: it's not just a problem of people being super sensitive these days, it's also a problem of a society that is obsessed with "happy feels at all times" and in this case here, a game development team that is ridiculously overprotective. They condone these actions, so all the super sensitives think they have it right and people like us that openly talk about stuff that doesn't work, causing "not so happy feels" in the process, are automatically the "bad guys".

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Originally Posted by Granyala

Te be honest: it's not just a problem of people being super sensitive these days, it's also a problem of a society that is obsessed with "happy feels at all times" and in this case here, a game development team that is ridiculously overprotective. They condone these actions, so all the super sensitives think they have it right and people like us that openly talk about stuff that doesn't work, causing "not so happy feels" in the process, are automatically the "bad guys".

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There is also this huge 'us vs. them' mentality nowadays, so if you don't subscribe to the group think you are also automatically the "bad guy" and deserve anything bad that happens to you. That's one reason, on these forums in particular, I have to be extremely careful with what I post. I assume people are reporting me constantly. In-game that is where a lot of the high and mighty (moral high ground) attitudes come from, if you aren't one of these "good people" you shouldn't be playing the game, according to them. "Find something else", so they will actively try to get others banned for the smallest of things.

I assume that every post of mine is reported and I post as such, yes.
Ingame, I rarely talk to people besides the occasional banter or instructions regarding encounters.

"Us vs. them" is a pretty normal group dynamic that has always existed and it is never wise to express opinions that go against the social consensus of said group.
The group will try to convert you or you will be ostracized because most people out there do NOT want to critically assess their actions, person, world views, feelings and opinions.
Critical self reflection is a very rare trait indeed.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

I assume that every post of mine is reported and I post as such, yes.
Ingame, I rarely talk to people besides the occasional banter or instructions regarding encounters.

"Us vs. them" is a pretty normal group dynamic that has always existed and it is never wise to express opinions that go against the social consensus of said group.
The group will try to convert you or you will be ostracized because most people out there do NOT want to critically assess their actions, person, world views, feelings and opinions.
Critical self reflection is a very rare trait indeed.

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What you hear: "How dare you not pick a side!"
What they're actually saying: "How dare you not pick MY side!"

Personally I haven't experienced it, but I mainly just interact with FC members. But then again, even in Roulettes, PFs, and other DF runs everyone seems so chill even after wipes.

Must be lucky I guess.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

The people who are reporting over those schoolyard insults are probably the same kind who ran to the teacher crying.....

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Whether or not its the same kids is irrelevant I think, but this does illustrate a point. As kids almost everyone knew that one kid on the playground that would run and tattle tell on every little infraction or hurt feeling. We all knew a kid like that. Did anyone really want to play with that kid or hang out with them? Bet you probably not. So what makes people think that if we have a community where everyone runs off to SE at the drop of a snub or insult that people are gonna want to play with others or even interact?

It's just food for thought. If anything, more people will likely respect you and want to play with you if youre the kind of person who doesnt get bothered by the small things.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

Whether or not its the same kids is irrelevant I think, but this does illustrate a point. As kids almost everyone knew that one kid on the playground that would run and tattle tell on every little infraction or hurt feeling. We all knew a kid like that. Did anyone really want to play with that kid or hang out with them? Bet you probably not. So what makes people think that if we have a community where everyone runs off to SE at the drop of a snub or insult that people are gonna want to play with others or even interact?

It's just food for thought. If anything, more people will likely respect you and want to play with you if youre the kind of person who doesnt get bothered by the small things.

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Actually really well said. This is exactly why people don't want to interact in game.