Meanwhile...you meet that lvl 50 gladiator in 24-man raid and those player not doing their job quests, people not setting their cross role action...
But for some reason this case seems to be okay for them.
BLU for Duty Finder and Raids! Show your support!
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11-20-2018, 11:36 AMKDSilver
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11-20-2018, 04:17 PMSkyskip
Bumping this before I go to bed. Keep on fighting the good fight, guys.
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11-20-2018, 04:31 PMDionysius
Show your support by convince sqex that BLU can be designed for raid contents while retain BLU identity, design your own concept that will work and have the community support it/bump it until the dev see it.
Why, because its a fact that sqex decided they can't do it.
Instead of everyone crying for something sqex deemed impossible to do. Prove them they are wrong. -
11-20-2018, 05:25 PMChocoFeru
Why would you want another generic job for raid? Can't we just have something different and customizable?
All the jobs are already similar enough because they have to be balanced for raid, why would you want to destroy a new job?
Just pick another caster for raid, the only difference will be that they have different rotations and different spell effects that you won't even see anyways.
Just let BLU be BLU, we need more job options and less generic boring stuff. -
11-20-2018, 06:13 PMBillyKaplanYou're right, let's draw straws to see what jobs will remain from each role. Cut tanks to one, healers to one, melee, ranged, caster. We only need five jobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocoFeru
Introducing a BLU raid build is not being requested in expense of the Masked Carnival. People are asking for extra.Quote:
Just let BLU be BLU, we need more job options and less generic boring stuff.
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11-20-2018, 07:06 PMChocoFeruWhat would be the difference anyways? Different skill effects? Rotation being "2, 3, 1" instead of "1, 2, 3"? Boring. Jobs are too similar already.Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyKaplan
Why? Why do every single job has to work the same way? We already destroyed other jobs, why should we destroy BLU?Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyKaplan
Do you want BLU to be destroyed like Summoner? Summoner lost it's meaning, it's just a Warlock with dots that has a stupid pet. Do you want BLU to become that?
We need more variation. It would be awesome to have a Beastmaster in the future that works like a true Beastmaster, for example.
Just let BLU be BLU and not a GENERIC "muh raid rotation" Job. -
11-20-2018, 07:10 PMDualgunner
Feru is right. Much better to let BLU be flash-in-the-pan and forgotten than let those dirty raiders enjoy it.
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11-20-2018, 09:00 PMChocoFeruImplying you can enjoy a capped BLU on a scripted raid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dualgunner
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11-20-2018, 09:02 PMDualgunnerImplying you can't.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocoFeru
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11-20-2018, 09:04 PMBillyKaplan
As these debates proceed, I find myself wondering if the people in favor of the Limited Jobs system are playing the right game for them...
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11-20-2018, 09:15 PMBubblyBoarWhy does BLU have to be the one that is used like this though? Why can't BLU work like other jobs and there be side content for the open world with extra abilities and gimmicks for all jobs to use for fun as BLU does?Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocoFeru
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11-20-2018, 09:44 PMChocoFeruThey're "testing" this new feature with a job that would lose all it's purpose on the actual system. Why should we play a capped BLU anyways? Just for cosmetics? All raid rotations look too similar with different effects.Quote:
Originally Posted by BubblyBoar
Actual jobs are too plain and boring right now. There's no space for personalization, no space to do new stuff outside the Tank/Heal/DPS scripted content, just watch how shitty SMN is because it has to fit into the basic mechanics.
BLU can offer a new type of content, and who knows, maybe they end changing the open-world (wich is too easy and placebo right now) to fit future jobs such as Beastmaster.
Raiding is not everything, we need more DIFFERENT content.
Make Carpenter a raid job! Give it the generic raid rotation now so I can have some FUN!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dualgunner
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11-20-2018, 09:52 PMBillyKaplanThe thing is, you'd still be forced to play those "boring" jobs anyway unless you plan on holding off on SHB until they raise BLU's cap to 80. So a lot of what you're saying is moot given that BLU is still a glorified mini-game.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocoFeru
BLU is locked from end-game raid, normal raid, 24 raid, dungeons, trials. And that is by main virtue of being capped at 50, alongside not being allowed into df.Quote:
Raiding is not everything, we need more DIFFERENT content.
Enjoy the new, fresh content that's been there since ARR.
CRP isn't a battle class, BLU is. Small, insignificant difference.Quote:
Make Carpenter a raid job! Give it the generic raid rotation now so I can have some FUN!
And yet not totally unprecedented as we've seen a GSM use an offensive LB so you know.
Why do people make it sound like BLU's introduction suddenly invalidates the system as a whole? It doesn't. -
11-20-2018, 09:57 PMBubblyBoar
This is NOT a test phase. This is BLU. It will not be allowed to get to current cap ever. They spent half the live letter saying that in every way they could except directly.
I have no problem with how the other classes are being implemented. I am a BLM main and am in nearly all the games. DOes it suck the elemental wheel is not in the game? Barely. I like BLM cause I can nuke things and that is what it does. I look nothing like a RDM or SMN.
Do you know why I like BLU? SO I can use those cool things on bosses. Grand Delta is one of my favorite spells and by favorite BLU spell in the series. Why can't I use that while running my roulettes to explode a pack of mobs as I can with Flare? Why? Because people want to lvl 5 death bosses.
I don't need personalization, it was never a thing in FFXIV. BLM always had the same spells. You couldn't play FFI BLM and have a different set of spells that made you a tank or healer. The same with WHM or WAR and even BLU in other games. I don't understand where this idea that BLU could be everything it wanted to be came from as if that was its job identity. It was always just a mage that could cast enemy skills that it learned. Every time. -
11-20-2018, 10:07 PMChocoFeruThat's the magic of FFXIV, to choose the jobs and contents you want to play. Still can be PLD on raid, BLU on it's content, RDM on Eureka etc~.Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyKaplan
So what? People want BLU to reduce their skills from 49 to 24 and pulish them to fit raid content, so why shouldn't CRP be redesigned to fight in raid/trials etc?Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyKaplan
Yeah, I know, it doesn't make any sense. And there you have the answer on why BLU should stay BLU.
The thing is that the actual system doesn't fit the BLU mechanics, so they have to fit it elsewhere. Reduce BLU spells to 24 and make them generic to fit a rotation is not a solution and it would kill the purpose of a BLU, IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyKaplan
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11-20-2018, 10:10 PMDualgunnerGet rid of every job's ability to raid except PLD, WHM, DRG, and MNK because those are the only four jobs who have arguably kept entirely to their identity in this MMO! Make everything solo content so every job can be 100% perfect towards the job's identity as dictated to it by other Final Fantasy games directed by other people.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocoFeru
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11-20-2018, 10:11 PMBillyKaplanNo, it's not even comparable.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocoFeru
This has nothing to do with what I said at all. BLU may be revolutionary but it's still a mini-game. The rest of the system remains unchanged, including the new jobs we're going to get. This isn't salvation for people like you, it's distraction at best.Quote:
The thing is that the actual system doesn't fit the BLU mechanics, so they have to fit it elsewhere. Reduce BLU spells to 24 and make them generic to fit a rotation is not a solution and it would kill the purpose of a BLU, IMO.
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11-20-2018, 10:23 PMChocoFeruFFXI had all kind of jobs, every single one being exceptional and yet useful for end-game. We should be open to new stuff that might change the actual FFXIV's "too-plain" system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dualgunner
It might be a mini-game like gatherers and crafters, but at least you can call it BLU and not "just another generic job to fit the actual Tank/Heal/DPS system".Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyKaplan
We had to accept SMN to be a "Warlock with a pet" and not a true Summoner.
We had to accept RDM to be a Caster and not a Caster/Healer/Buffer like a real RDM.
Just let BLU be BLU, let's find new ways of content instead of the "Raid only" mentality. -
11-20-2018, 10:26 PMDualgunnerFFXI was a very different kind of game to FFXIV. We should be critical of changes we see that we dislike, especially if it's just in the name of making it "more like XI"; yes there's the no true Scotsman regarding Eureka, but there is no doubt that content too was designed to appeal to people who liked FFXI.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocoFeru
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11-20-2018, 10:26 PMBillyKaplanGatherers and Crafters directly interact with the rest of the game. Right now it seems like BLU will not.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocoFeru
I don't even raid. But I do play a whole lot of battle content, and that's a lot I won't be able to take BLU into. You can keep clinging onto raids all you want, but it doesn't change that.Quote:
Just let BLU be BLU, let's find new ways of content instead of the "Raid only" mentality.
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11-20-2018, 10:29 PMBurningskullIt's not just about "Raid only" mentality. I don't raid at all, I don't have an FC, and I queue int everything solo using the duty finder. I log in to do my roulettes and beast tribes. I level all the dps jobs cause when I do my roulettes I like to change jobs so I'm not playing the same job over and over. Not being able to take Blu into whatever I want cause I can't DF with it means I have no reason to level it other than curiosity or for the Carnival mini game.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocoFeru
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11-20-2018, 10:58 PMDuskane
I think my biggest problem with the idea of limited job is
there will now always be that second thought that your favorite job that's not even in the game yet could just be some side content joke job
not mine at least ive come at peace that holy dragoon will never even be in the game but its a worry to others who would want a class like puppet master,Beast master etc etc -
11-20-2018, 11:03 PMjameseoakesWould it be better to get them as a specialist job than not getting them at all?Quote:
Originally Posted by Duskane
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11-20-2018, 11:06 PMArkdraI don't know when you played ff11 but at the time that I played, this was absolutely not the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocoFeru
Limited jobs are still cool though. -
11-20-2018, 11:08 PMDuskanewith the limits they have put on it im sure some would say yeahQuote:
Originally Posted by jameseoakes
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11-20-2018, 11:11 PMDelmontyb
At the start, I want to have hands-on with it, but in concept, I don't want this job in the Duty Finder. Party Finder will be the way to go :)
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11-20-2018, 11:42 PMJBeeBut level 47 Marauders and level 50 Conjurors are just fine in DF, yeah? Or people with so low of ilvl for a dungeon they cannot reasonably participate and make the healers work overtime just to try to keep them alive?Quote:
Originally Posted by Delmontyb
It's a double standard. It's ok to slouch on fifteen of the jobs, but not on the sixteenth?
Put requirements on the DF for BLU's to queue, simple as that - either specific abilities learned or equipped, certain abilities NOT equipped, or a mixture of the two. -
11-21-2018, 12:55 AMAlucard135In theory you have (49!/25!)=3.9216e+37 that's 39.2 Undecillion possible combinations of skills when you have 49 skills and 24 too choose from. Good luck having SE do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by JBee
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11-21-2018, 01:02 AMJBeeIt's been years since got into prob/stats, but wouldn't that be for every unique combination in a unique order? Order wouldn't matter, only loadout.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alucard135
But anyway, I get what you mean though - I'm sure some of the abilities will be more "core" and some will be more situational and fringe, with a healthy amount in the middle. Some may be dps based, some healing based, some enhancement based, etc. They might not want to require 24 specific abilities, but they could require 24 equipped, or a minimum of 20 dps oriented abilities equipped. Something.
As I put in another post, I don't care if people are the top of their job - I care if they are actively participating and trying, wherever that trying falls on the performance scale. Showing up with 3 abilities total to Aurum Vale - 100% a kick as it should be. But if they showed up with 24 abilities - some decent, some good, some ok - then I don't see an issue.
Of course this is all based on assume theory from what we know in how the abilities will work. -
11-21-2018, 01:23 AMAlucard135I borked up my math. It should be 49!/(25!*24!) to eliminate outputs of different permutations. So it goes down to 63.25 trillion possible combinations. But yeah, if they implemented something like a skill tree, then that would limit that number to something like 3-5 builds (Burst damage caster, Dot type caster or tank build?).Quote:
Originally Posted by JBee
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11-21-2018, 01:55 AMStanelisA damage dealing (resp healing or tanking) ability is a damage dealing ability, no matter its appearance. When you take this into account, you'd find there are way less different possible effects than you actually think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alucard135
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11-21-2018, 06:16 AMSkyskipI would rather see all the time, money, and energy spent on ruining this job go into making a real job.Quote:
Originally Posted by jameseoakes
We might not have gotten BLU in that case, but at least it would have been worthwhile content everyone could enjoy. -
11-21-2018, 06:27 AMjameseoakesQuote:
Originally Posted by Skyskip
That seems unfair, the BLU mage content we are getting might be really enjoyable -
11-21-2018, 07:03 AMSkyskipNot enjoyable enough for it to be restricted from the rest of the game's content. Especially since it's 'content' is five year old content everyone has already done to death that can be done on other jobs + an instanced gimmicky boss fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by jameseoakes
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11-21-2018, 07:07 AMjameseoakesSeems a bit early for that much hateQuote:
Originally Posted by Skyskip
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11-21-2018, 07:10 AMSkyskipWhat exactly do you propose I wait for? My problem is not with BLU itself. I like the learning mechanic. I'm sure the carnival will be a fine. I even have no problem with RNG being tied to learning the spells.Quote:
Originally Posted by jameseoakes
But my issue is with the content restrictions. And no amount of playing BLU will ever make that okay. So I'd say this is a perfect time for this much hate. -
11-21-2018, 07:11 AMDerio
All these posts but I have not seen any suggesting viable balancing options and hopefully when 4.5 comes someone can come up with one.
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11-21-2018, 07:13 AMSkyskipYou must not be looking very hard because there have been suggestions all over the place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Derio
But I'll start with a basic one; how about not letting certain BLU spells one-shot bosses? Because that appears to be an immense hurdle for them. -
11-21-2018, 07:23 AMZerophiliac
I'm not really turned off by the news for Blu. I do understand why people want it to be viable for group content (every job should be), but it just seems to me that they are releasing this job to see how people feel about it (I do think seeing how it is in regular content would be better for this, but they have stated their reasoning).
While I am ultimately hoping "limited" is a status that is lifted, I have a feeling it is going to be like this until 5.0 until they properly know how to implement it easily.
There are tons upon tons of ideas for proper implementation of this job, but I do hope people give this peculiar (albeit disheartening) approach a chance. Who knows, some people may enjoy this concept.
To clarify, I do think that Blue mage has a place in regular content (I am optimistic), but I am willing to give this new approach a shot. -
11-21-2018, 07:32 AMShougunHeh.. couldn't help myself:Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyskip
Although I still like/feel like "both, both is nice" is my favorite choice lol.
Like once they've cleared content (doesn't matter if it's on blue mage, but could be), they leave behind a growing blue magic spell (mist?). After some time for their blue magic mist to develop they can enter these dungeons with their full potential (the mist enhancing and supporting their more dangerous and varied magics, level 5 death in turn 5 coil unlocked :3). The time to develop the mist being code for "once the devs have decided to let you in".