When will we get the PVP system for PVE ?

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

I actually think the very reason its in pvp now is just a tester for pve at some point of course thats just my opinion but i could be.

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It is about seperating PvP from PvE

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

but if someone wanted the option then why not let them have it

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You're oversimplifying.

You can't just make something an optional thing all willy nilly with no thought process behind it.

There could be complications with implementing this system as an optional one, like job balance. There could be situations where using one mode is better than another etc. All possibilities.

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Originally Posted by Oscura

No, it isn't. Multiple people have gone on the record to say that consolidating combos would hurt their experience or make things less enjoyable or convenient for their experience.

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At worst, you could slot your combo three times if you really want to use different buttons from each step and keep the same feeling.

Or, again, this could be implemented as an option, with two small changes :

• Allow macros to queue properly
• Allow the set command to set macros in your bar

This way, you could decide to create three macros that automatically rotate your slot if you want. And it would make macros as a whole more desirable to use.

I have to ask this question. Can anyone describe a reason to EVER use Zwerchhau without using Reposte first on a Redmage?

With that said, Reposte, Zwerchhua, and Redoublement ought to be one button hit three times. There is absolutely no reason for this to be on three buttons.

Of course this is the only simplification I'd advocate from PVP. I don't want the rest of the skill culling to happen. But this alone would save most classes about 2-4 buttons easily.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

I have to ask this question. Can anyone describe a reason to EVER use Zwerchhau without using Reposte first on a Redmage?

With that said, Reposte, Zwerchhua, and Redoublement ought to be one button hit three times. There is absolutely no reason for this to be on three buttons.

Of course this is the only simplification I'd advocate from PVP. I don't want the rest of the skill culling to happen. But this alone would save most classes about 2-4 buttons easily.

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To end your fight with a Zorro mark, when down to the last GCD.

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Originally Posted by Fhaerron

Edit: forgot to say that I hate PvP with a passion and as such I have never ever done any form of PvP in this game, but I did read the post of the OP.

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Setting your personal bias aside, why don't you go to the Wolves' Den Pier and try this system for yourself? You won't even have to fight anyone; there are striking dummies there. The hotbar will already be there, you can just rearrange it as you see fit. Keep in mind this isn't optional, that's just how it is in that area now. Try it out and truly see if that's something you'd want in PvE. Reading the initial post and declaring your hate of PvP don't give you much of a solid base for discussion of the matter.

Never. Dumbing down PVE will just lead to thousands of players leaving the game. I for one would end my sub over this idea alone.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Now, I believe that's a valid fear, and why the devs would need near-rabid watch-dogging if something like this were to occur, but you are claiming mutual exclusion — that your right not to suffer periphrial change stands in conflict with anyone else's right to enjoy such options; that cannot help but turn, then, into argument over merit.

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I never insinuated otherwise. This is purely a preference argument. If they insist on simply adding new abilities onto our hotbars, I don't want it at the expense of consolidating combos. If others do, that is their prerogative.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

<Could you clarify this portion? I'm not sure I'm interpreting it correctly.>

:: Again, ideally, I'd like to see shorter oGCD CDs, oGCD stacking only where not limiting the creative uses of potential (if improved upon) creative uses of oGCDs, weaponskills freed from combo constraints and so forth. But I do not care to see buttons spent just for the sake of hitting something else to continue, essentially, the same skill. Make them separable, or let me spend only as many buttons on it as there are choices.

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Have different combo sequences, which create different effects. Basically, similar to how Mudras change what your Ninjutsu becomes. I fear what you're suggesting—weaponskills freed from combo constraints—just promotes spamming, especially from lesser skilled players. Alas, if the devs maintain their "simplifying combat" approach, I can't see them adding different combo chains.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Have different combo sequences, which create different effects. Basically, similar to how Mudras change what your Ninjutsu becomes. I fear what you're suggesting—weaponskills freed from combo constraints—just promotes spamming, especially from lesser skilled players. Alas, if the devs maintain their "simplifying combat" approach, I can't see them adding different combo chains.

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Ahh, I see. I would love that. But, I too suspect that it's almost the opposite of what SE has in mind, sadly.

Oh please. theres a huge difference between simplifying and "Dumbing down".

Theres no valid argument for having a combo you always press in the same order take 3 seperate buttons or more.

Another issue with making the PVP and PVE systems identical is that balance for one will also affect balance for the other. I still remember when the developers of SWTOR made soloing as an Operative almost impossible because of how over powered they were in PVP and by the time I had left they still hadn't rectified the issue.

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

Theres no valid argument

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So...just because you think there is no valid argument there....just isn't any? Just because you say so? That's quite an impressive omniscience you have there.

You do realize this whole topic is an argument of preference right? We are arguing opinions mostly, not facts.

Some prefer how the combo system works now and some prefer they consolidate to remove buttons.

Fact is though the current system works right now otherwise there would have been massive amounts of complaints and people would be unable to clear content due to issues with the UI/Button system. I am not saying it is perfect, but it works, so in the end we are just arguing about what we personally prefer.

So, no, you cannot just invalidate everyone else just because you don't agree with them. Nice try though.

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Originally Posted by Enla

Another issue with making the PVP and PVE systems identical is that balance for one will also affect balance for the other. I still remember when the developers of SWTOR made soloing as an Operative almost impossible because of how over powered they were in PVP and by the time I had left they still hadn't rectified the issue.

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I'd be surprised people still PVP in that game. Seems like its all dress up, RP, and marrying companions. Last I played, PVP matches were hard to get (ranked never popped), and when they did.. I remember doing the map where you have the two gens that periodically overload and only the center is safe. Used to plop my sniper in the center to pick off people. They'd rather just jump into the blast and die than fight. This was around the Shadow of Revan and Something Empire. Max level was 65 I think.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

I'd be surprised people still PVP in that game. Seems like its all dress up, RP, and marrying companions. Last I played, PVP matches were hard to get (ranked never popped), and when they did.. I remember doing the map where you have the two gens that periodically overload and only the center is safe. Used to plop my sniper in the center to pick off people. They'd rather just jump into the blast and die than fight. This was around the Shadow of Revan and Something Empire. Max level was 65 I think.

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Yeah I left a year before the first expansion came out and PVP was still pretty popular on the server I was on. I went back not too long ago and it was a wasteland.

Just make it so people can choose. Make it an option, that way everyone can be happy.

Why are people so against this idea, it's not like we are forcing it on people. it could be added as an optional thing. Those that want to use it are happy, and those that don't simply don't.

I love the idea cause it would clear space in my screen, also it would be great for when I play on my ps4 my hotbar options are more limited.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

Why don't we let the game play itself while we're at it, since we just want one button for 3 abilities.

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Put it on mobile too. I wouldn't mind doing some trials on the toilet.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Put it on mobile too. I wouldn't mind doing some trials on the toilet.

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No way! I don't want to be hearing other people on the toilet over discord!

Skill bloat is not a problem. PvP is poorly designed right now. Sorry, big pass on this.

i cant weave my gcds as mnk in the pvp system. arguably they could change the timers so i wont have to, but part of the appeal of monk is that kind of gameplay.

The option would be very nice.

As someone who watched their PvP linkshells and FC slowly die after the "streamlining" (dumbing down of pvp), I say a solid NO to this.
It'll alienate most of the veteran player-base, as it did in PvP.
I am still hoping that PvP gets reverted in Shadowbringers, but I know that probably won't.

I'm looking forward to these changes in 5.0 Cross our fingers. Otherwise, there will be just too many actions for my setup. I have enough issues with the current blot of having 10 Role actions.

I think it's an eventuality. Please proceed to blame controller users.

I wouldn't mind having the option of consolidating a combo rotation into a single button but I believe it would probably be an eventuality that most skills would just have an "enhanced/enchanted" or replaced version of existing skills like we have already (ie RDM melee rotation once gauge is filled, MCH standard rotation at 50 heat, how Thunder 3 and 4 replace Thunder 1 and 2 etc).

This would probably be a more ideal solution to having an excess of skills on a skillbar.

Skill bloat? In FF14? You're funny. I've been through MMOs where at max level you had approximately 50-60 skills to manage.

In FF14 you have what, 20? 30 at worst? You call this bloat? That's legit insulting.

Let's just cancel FF14 on PC and move the entire thing to mobile and put all skills on 3 buttons. Might as well.

Who brought this thread back? It's been dead for two years... :B

Every job has ~24 actions, of which GCD combos are included. With Stormblood, they culled many old skills while also combining old skills into the same button but added a trait to directly upgrade the skill (Stone->Stone II->Stone III->Stone IV; combining 4 buttons into 1). If they did this for combos for melees, it would save about 5-6 buttons, allowing them to dedicate more space on our hotbars for more cooldowns and oGCDs, etc.

Right now, take DRG:

-Heavy Thrust
-Impulse Drive
-Disembowel
-Chaos Thrust
-Wheeling Thrust
-Fang and Claw
-True Thrust
-Vorpal Thrust
-Full Thrust

That's 9/24, or nearly 40% of DRG's number of actions. This means they only have 15 actions left to divvy up. If they reduced those 9 GCDs into 2 GCDS (Dot+Piercing combo, Full Thrust dmg combo) and rolled Heavy Thrust's buff into Vorpal Thrust (like how SAM gets DMG buff from their 2nd hit in their Gekko combo...from Jinpu), it would allow DRG to have 7 actions freed up to be used for all kinds of cool things. We could get a new stance, we could get more jumps, Dragon Breath, Reis Wind, Highwind, Lancet, etc.... Keeping melee GCD combos as separate actions forces those jobs to stagnate in terms of future growth, or it forces the only new skills for melees to get to be "upgraded" animations of existing combos, like how MCH gets "heated" weapon skills that overwrite their split/slug/clean shots when >50% heat. Is that what melee want? Simple cosmetic and potency upgrades to their regular combos but not dynamic upgrades to their job?

There's no reason why the next action in the middle of a combo would be anything other than the next part of the combo, so why not roll them in? The GCD combos of the job should just be a rolling thing we do to keep the GCD timer running, while we weave in oGCDs and other stuff. Since the game must be optimized for controllers and console players, we likely won't see skill bloat beyond ~24 skills. This is the most parsimonious way to increase a vast number of skills for melee jobs, while for mages they can simply turn some spells into others after some condition is met, or do the MCH route like with "Heated" shots replacing normal shots.

BC some of us want this, ofc.

Just condense combos together, there. Almost every class has like six buttons freed up, like that.

Really hoping they incorporate some of what they did with PvP. There are opportunities where it makes sense to, especially for combo-driven rotations where the only thing it would do besides be a colossal QoL improvement is freeing up hotkey space for cooler non-filler abilities.

Are people concerned it might be too complex trying to memorize abilities that adapt to combat status instead of just having a ton of keys on their bars so they can click each individually?

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

There's no reason why the next action in the middle of a combo would be anything other than the next part of the combo, so why not roll them in?

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This.

So what about MNKs and their 9 skills that can technically go into any order? I could just as well use DK into TS or BS into TS. Makes no sense for them. Even Warriors, everything starts from HS but then it's SS or Maim then Maim into SP or SE. I don't want 3 icons that are the exact same every 6 seconds or so, that just leads to confusion. Also I feel this would make the learning of rotations unintuitive for new players. As an icon change usually means you gotta use it right away. See BloodLetter or Mirage Dive.

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As an icon change usually means you gotta use it right away. See BloodLetter or Mirage Dive.

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Bloodletter's icon doesn't change, and Kenki skills have the combo markers but aren't time-based like say Shield Swipe is.

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

So what about MNKs and their 9 skills that can technically go into any order? I could just as well use DK into TS or BS into TS. Makes no sense for them. Even Warriors, everything starts from HS but then it's SS or Maim then Maim into SP or SE. I don't want 3 icons that are the exact same every 6 seconds or so, that just leads to confusion. Also I feel this would make the learning of rotations unintuitive for new players. As an icon change usually means you gotta use it right away. See BloodLetter or Mirage Dive.

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MNK can be an exception and keep their huge number of buttons, but then the trade off is they basically not get any new skills, only conditional skills like with Stormblood's tackle mastery which just alters existing skills by changing their properties. I think the only new buttons MNK got were Riddle of Fire, Riddle of Earth, and Brotherhood, but they took away Haymaker, Featherfoot, and Touch of Death. To add any new skills to MNK, they would have to remove something else (looking at you, One Ilm Punch). If they consolidate combos, they can add much more, and they will NEED to do something to keep adding new skills for 80 cap, 90 cap and eventually 100 cap.

I think they could split monk's core rotation into three flanking/rear/aoe buttons and have those cycle through stances and you'd pick or choose based on priority, right? Or am I forgetting something... I'm not the best monk but it sounds like it could work that way? It would just be unforgiving in that you would be committed to finishing a combo, so if you mess up the start you can't try again until you finish... though I'm not sure it would be ideal to do that anyway?

They'd have to retool MNK because they have a lot of branching possibilities depending on if they need to refresh Blunt debuff vs using Bootshine crit for damage, or using the DoT from Demolish vs using Snap Punch for damage, as well as using their AoE. It's kind of similar to SAM and NIN's conditional rotation. If anything, they could turn Dragon Kick, Disembowel, Shadow Fang into oGCDs, so rather than having full uptime, it's a "damage buff" for themselves. Hell, MCH/BRD could also get their own Piercing Debuff rolled into Gauss Round, Empyreal Arrow

Oh yes, this would be perfect. Except that it's kinda annoying have to press a separate button for ogcd's, can we just get rid of them and bake the potency into the combo button. Sometimes I also like to alt+tab to watch netflix or check facebook, could they make it so if we just hold down the combo button it auto advances it, while also dodging aoes for me?

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Originally Posted by Gralna

Oh yes, this would be perfect. Except that it's kinda annoying have to press a separate button for ogcd's, can we just get rid of them and bake the potency into the combo button. Sometimes I also like to alt+tab to watch netflix or check facebook, could they make it so if we just hold down the combo button it auto advances it, while also dodging aoes for me?

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Facebook + Netflix integration, make sure they add YouTube integration too. Clicker Heroes baby!

PVP has this because human opponents are unpredictable and challenging, so adding a multi-button rotation is unnecessary to keep you on your toes.

PVE is largely scripted so if combos were reduced like in PVP, it would be a lot of standing still pushing 1 -> 1 -> 1 -> 1 -> 1....

They gotta do something to open up our hotkeys for new high level actions. It comes down to removing unused skills, turning old skills into new skills while under a new trait, or consolidating repetitive or sequential actions into the same button. RDM melee combo, Jolt II->Impact, DRG's 2 combos, etc.