"Why bother playing a game if you just want a story? Go read a book!"Quote:
Originally Posted by cougarel
This argument is ridiculous and invalid.
I also don't understand how anyone could come to the conclusuon that the MSQ teaches you how to play. Or that people wouldn't run the dungeons if the MSQ didn't force them to. The dungeons are the stuff we do want to do. We just want to do them without doing hundreds of fetch quests.
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06-26-2015, 12:06 AMAtrayl
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06-26-2015, 02:43 AMRichardButteThen what's the problem?Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvbunny
There's a difference between the HW MSQ in that nearly every quest actually rolls the story forward (at least up until 55, where I am). If the level 50 MSQ had actually been 350+ quests that actually involved moving the story forward, that'd be one thing, but most of them, as we've been saying, are just filler.
I think the MSQ would actually be ENJOYABLE for most if they cut out the fluff and filler, or as I said, make short narrative scenes like in HW and use those to roll it forward between instances.
Running dungeons and trials teaches players how to play the game (also guildhests, which are a neat feature).Quote:
Originally Posted by cougarel
The story itself teaches absolutely nothing about how to actually play your class. You can skip every single cutscene in the game and still be amazing at the class you play.
There is literally 0 correlation between the two. -
06-26-2015, 02:51 AMTerin
Honestly, yeah, it just needs to be streamlined. That, or kick the XP up even a bit more, or maybe have it automatically put you in the area for your next quest? It's pretty daunting.
I mean, seriously; just go look at your "Unending Journal". The Main Scenario alone, pre-Heavensward, is INSANELY long. Which is great in some ways, but worse in others. -
06-26-2015, 03:03 AMFelisThe story teach you how the world around you work and evolve, not how you play your job.Quote:
Originally Posted by cougarel
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06-26-2015, 03:24 AMMadjames
Hmm ill chime in again
To the person saying that the MSQ or any other dungeon or primal teaches me how to play. Sorry but your WRONG!
I learn how to play by the internet. I learn to min/max my character and job (I picked the 2nd best race though but I liked them more). Then I go and watch EVERY FIGHT before I even start it with the duty finder.
The point here is that I want to do things with friends. Others like me want our friends to join us in the new expansion, NOT run around doing 20+ HOURS (from where I left off only which was the quest fireworks and fish don't mix) to finishing when they are ALREADY LEVEL 50, Which is the required level to get into the expansion! No other mmorpg locks the expansion out like this game, NONE!!
This is a huge problem for people who want alts (Downgraded my sub as well as my wife's sub until we can skip the whole MSQ Crap) or new players who are here to, I dont know, Play an MMORPG with their friends in the EXPANSION and NOT go and pay money to Watch a movie/read some In game book to which we have little to NO CARE ABOUT! It needs to be fixed.
The MSQ needs to be streamlined and trimmed! Or downright OPTIONAL!
The new jobs need to be allowed by NEW PLAYERS before hitting 50 and the expac needs to be unlocked and gated ONLY to a hard level cap of 50+! -
06-26-2015, 03:29 AMAtraylHow does me not knowing this affect you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Felis
Should only people with an encyclopedic knowledge of a game's lore be allowed to play it?
Should only those fluent in Tolkien's Elvish be allowed to make Elf characters in LOTRO? -
06-26-2015, 03:37 AMMadjamesIt should not. The MSQ needs to be streamlined, trimmed, and made OPTIONAL!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Atrayl
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06-26-2015, 03:40 AMLuvbunnyThis is a big problem for sure, especially if you have alts. Almost every JRPG has these type of inane quests and slow burn "immersion" activity, it's their bread and butter "padding content" way of extending gameplay. The issue is this, for people who just want to get straight into the action, aka dungeon + trials + raid grinds, the MSQ is nothing but a hindrance. I already know how to play the game, just let me get to the finish line. What they should have done with this expansion is to allow access for the three new jobs sooner. At the end of the day, you will do MSQ anyway because it's a great source of XP, as well as a good activity to do while waiting for dungeons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pikachu_Pizza
FFXI is a good example of this. Most of the expansion content city and new jobs are accessible at level 30, but the actual activities are off limits until you reach certain level (level 30, 50, 75, 99). This way everyone can try the new jobs ASAP, and encourage new players to level up already to do the activities. What FF14 does right is by giving you massive amounts of XP and reward for MSQ. You get almost nothing in FFXI (maybe a reward or two).
The problem of allowing people to skip MSQ in its entirety can be seen in FFXI, here the main story is somewhat optional, you can get to 99 without doing much of the MSQ - but at the end some of the end game required you do complete them. This then became an actual shock for some players - it was brutal when they realize this at the end - and they cannot find people to help them clear these missions (now it is no longer the case with uncap level, but still a MASSIVE undertaking to solo, huge timesink). For example, Chains of Promathia endgame was only accessible to 10% of the players when the game came out for 2 years. Here, everyone has access to endgame by the end of level 50 because you are forced to go through the MSQ.
As someone else said, if you bring new players to the game, "I want to do raid ASAP" is the last thing in their mind. They want to explore, get to know the surrounding, learn the lore, play the game, etc... If you are the type of a person who absolutely hate MSQ stuffs, there is not much to love in HW, it is the same thing, repeated again, but takes longer due to the area being massive. And everything is locked out behind MSQ when it comes to dungeons (only one is accessible - but you would not know this unless you explore and do quests). -
06-26-2015, 03:59 AMLuvbunnyLMAO, why are you here? playing this game? if the actual gameplay and activity is not necessary? and you learn nothing meaningful by doing the dungeons? Since you just stated every thing about the game is useless and just strafe dance memorize pattern.... FF14 is what it is, not perfect, but it is one of the best online RPG right now, at least to some people, a good 2 millions of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Souljacker
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06-26-2015, 04:18 AMMadjamesHmm I can answerQuote:
Originally Posted by Luvbunny
I am here to do dungeons and make my own story for my character. I already have a 10 page written backstory to him. I have completely disregarded the MSQ as my character would not ever dream of doing anything in it as his personality and how he is would totally not get involved.
I write my own story for my character and when I eventually leave this game, many years from now I will write his death in the already detailed book about his life.
With this said he is in the new area exploring the new expansion looking to make himself more powerful. He is searching for the most dangerous and formidable foe's (Raids) and continues to train and battle monsters in preparation to do so.
IRL I am here to get to end game, raid, and have fun with FRIENDS. An mmorpg for me is to play with friends, not run around doing random solo missions and stupid story fluff that is not influential to my characres story in any way shape or form. My character is his own special snowflake, not some guardian of the land like everyone else in the story. Although I will say that what transpires in the world as far as the MSQ goes, he knows whats going on but is not actively involved at all.
I also play to mine. I love spending 8+ hours doing nothing but mining and selling my wares. I have made quite a list of customers to fill orders for. I have enough on my plate and my character has enough on his plate from an RP standpoint to even worry much less care about the MSQ.
My way of playing an MMORPG has always been this way starting back 18 years ago in Ultima Online and before that, playing Pen and Paper Dungeons and Dragons where you actually have to make a story for YOURSELF and you are not being held or forced to continue on some rail story. There is no right or WRONG way to play an MMORPG as it has been designed for every type of player in mind. Just because some of us are NOT story huggers does not automatically mean that we should quit and play something else.
This is an MMORPG first in a final fantasy THEMED world, Story is second and always will be. If it wasnt, we would be watching a movie/reading a book for hours and hours and hours and NOT interacting much at all and we would be heavily on rails and restricted much like the old FF games were of previous years.
You state also this: "as someone else said, if you bring new players to the game, "I want to do raid ASAP" is the last thing in their mind. They want to explore, get to know the surrounding, learn the lore, play the game, etc... If you are the type of a person who absolutely hate MSQ stuffs, there is not much to love in HW, it is the same thing, repeated again, but takes longer due to the area being massive. And everything is locked out behind MSQ when it comes to dungeons (only one is accessible - but you would not know this unless you explore and do quests)."
This is HIGHLY FAR FROM THE TRUTH!! Most mmorpg Friends of mine came here from wow. They are experienced and veteran hardcore raiders, more so then me by a long shot. Some have world first kills. This is what they came here to do. So they Powerlevel themselves to max level and gear themselves out JUST TO RAID!! That is how they want to play their MMORPG experience! That is not a wrong way to play and for me or anyone else to say otherwise is downright in denial and stupid for doing so, as we do NOT have a right to tell others how to enjoy a game that they are PAYING FOR AND WE ARE NOT! This game has been, BY DESIGN, meant for many different players and not just the story huggers. If all you want is the story then my suggestion is to go and play a single player rpg game like FF6 or FF7 or FFT as they have a much better story anyhow then this game and that way you are not forcing your play-style upon others.
One of the reasons for some hardcore raiders to come here is because Wow has become Faceroll. None of the boss fights are challenging so they came here in search of that challenge and they have found it here. You can not sit there and say people ALL JOIN for ONE REASON ONLY. You can not sit there and say that ALL of them joining are all thinking EXACTLY THE SAME thing and it is EXACTLY how YOU see it. You have NO IDEA why people join this game, we all have our reasons. To sit there and say that we shouldn't play this game because we could give a crap about the story is a bad attitude and if SE follows it, this game will not grow to its full potential and will close down much sooner because people will move onto a more free and accepting new player gaming experience.
Lastly this is an MMORPG FIRST AND FOREMOST in a final fantasy themed world, designed for Tons of different players in mind. To exclude a certain player-base from enjoining said mmorpg the way THEY WANT TO PLAY, by forcing an unnecessary aspect of it on them is the WRONG WAY to go about doing this. Gating is fine, FORCING solo missions and MSQ crap on the general population of joining players when all they want to do is get max level and play with their friends is a stupid marketing move and a stupid strategy! World of warcraft had it right when leveling and expansions are concerned. Those who enjoyed the storys and quests could do that. Those that wanted to do nothing but PVP and level that way could also, do that as well. When an expansion hit, the main area WAS gated by a hard level cap and a 1 minute starting quest to enter said area ONLY! There was no gated areas after this and you could run around and explore as much as you wanted to and level your gethering professions without touching any quest ever again. Flgiht was gated by In game currency and again a hard level cap ONLY! Also NONE of the new classes were gated and could be gotten and played from the beginning of the expansion by any new players joining (With the exclusion of the death knight as they had a hard cap of having one level 55 as they started at level 55 to begin with, not sure if they removed this requirement or not).
SE should follow this model as it clearly has been working great for the past 10 years. This has nothing to do about hand outs. This has everything to do with forcing a play-style upon another. I guarantee you that if SE EVER forced any form of PVP on me to progress, I would quit right then and there as I despise PVP. Other people, some raiding friends of mine HAVE QUIT because of this forced archaic MSQ solo-mission obsession. Others have slogged through it. I just hope it becomes Optional to those who want alts and at least TRIMMED and exp boosted for those who are joining. -
06-26-2015, 04:21 AMNightdreamer
Was Aht Urhgan locked when it came out for FFXI? I remember there being an option to pay 500k gil to get smuggled into the new land. It's been so long since I've played it, but I don't recall anything being locked like Heavensward is.
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06-26-2015, 04:32 AMReinhaI answered you multiple pages ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atrayl
In other words, I like attunements because it adds to the reasons for doing the attunement steps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinha
1) Exploring. Fun on it's own but now it's more fun when there's flying as a reward!
2) Story. Fun on it's own but now it's more fun because I get access to new dungeons while doing it! "Dungeon unlocked - The Aery now accessible" just popped today and I felt like I achieved something. The feeling of achievement and a good story can be combined for extra fun just as it has been in this game so far.
3) Raiding and dungeons. Fun on their own but it's more fun when you get currency, commendations, gear and access to new dungeons/raid wings as a reward for clearing it!
If you make things accessible without the story, a part of the reward is removed from the story and it will be less fun for me. I want to have a gameplay reason for doing the story, just like raiders want to have gear as a reward for doing raids. Savage mode isn't as popular as regular coil because of a simple reason: the rewards are cosmetic. I want the story to continue providing game changing benefits like faster transport, exclusive group content and access to certain areas and classes, because then I will have a lot more fun doing it.
Story mode players shouldn't have to feel that their rewards are worthless just because end game focused players complain. I refuse to think that I've chosen the wrong game for wanting to play a story and quest based MMO with attunements, because this gating element has been present since I started my free trial at level 1. If you claim that no player in the world is in favor of attunements in an MMO, it is you who is objectively wrong.
Nice strawman, implying that anyone has admitted to playing just for the story and not also for the MMO gameplay. Of course it's an invalid argument because you made it up lol. People have, however, admitted to playing a story focused game only for the gameplay, so the question made by the person you responded to is perfectly valid and reasonable. I think it's rather ridiculous to ask for this game to be changed, when what you are looking for (no attunements, optional story, good pve) already exists in other games. A good story told via a game is what we have right here, so there's no need read books. "Why bother playing this game if you want a story? Go play a story focused gam... oh wait."Quote:
Originally Posted by Atrayl
I don't think you guys understand that there are a few players in this thread asking precisely that, for example Atrayl on the very same page you posted on. Making the story optional is a very different kind of request than trimming it a little (which I wouldn't mind btw, as long as they don't allow you to skip dungeons or entire patches worth of quests).Quote:
Originally Posted by Exotik_Legacy
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06-26-2015, 04:33 AMHodgepodgeMcDodgeIt was a quest that was unlocked around level 30. You either paid the fee, farmed up coffer keys, or farmed up all six sub job items.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightdreamer
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06-26-2015, 04:40 AMNightdreamer
I also found the story to be boring, I came back after a hiatus and was 3 scenarios behind. I found out the expansion would be gated 3 days before the early access, I breezed through the MSQ hitting esc every chance I got, it only got interesting towards the end when I noticed similarities to game of thrones so it slightly peaked my interest. Other than that, I have no idea what's going on, why? because I don't care as much about the story as I do about playing my character and leveling, and raiding, and doing fun stuff, after all, this is a video game and not a book. Give us a good story even if it's short just don't give us all this filler crap run around quest for some tea.
SE should have never entwined access to the new areas with the story. That was a very arrogant move on their part. -
06-26-2015, 04:45 AMFelis"Why playing a (J)RPG if you want a game with no story? Go and play a Jump&Run!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Atrayl
But JRPGs should be like books, with graphic and many text.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightdreamer
FF XIV is a JRPG first, a MMO second. -
06-26-2015, 04:46 AMDante_V
I'm glad they limited access to the new areas. It's helped congestion which is a god send atm.
Also I can't help but think that if the 50's that are in here complaining were actually doing MSQ instead of writing novels on the forum they'd already be at end game. -
06-26-2015, 04:59 AMKisaiTenshiI think they meant the Class/Job storylines.Quote:
Originally Posted by Souljacker
If the MSQ was optional, what would happen is very simple, you'd get people who feel ripped off for spending 80$ on a game, that can be completed in 2 days. FFXIV has 12 dungeons that take 90 minutes to finish. 12 x 90 = 18 hours. If you just sat outside the dungeon and level grinded until you hit the levelsync point instead of playing the story, of course it would be boring. The MSQ and all the sidequests provide enough experience that you only need to play most of the dungeons once to clear them. People would completely ignore the "hard" dungeons because the game ends at level 50, thus no experience and no point to doing any of them. I need to bring up the point that the level 50 dungeons didn't exist at launch.
HW adds 8 dungeons, that's essentially is 2/3rds of the same amount of release content for 2.0
MSQ-ARR, if you look at the lodestone has 246 possible quests under Seventh Umbral Era, of which all the quests up to level 15 are in triplicate due to the three starting areas. So remove 22 from that number and you get 224. Those are the Main Scenario Quests that get you to the "A Relic Reborn" section. The Seventh Astral Era quests, there's 100, All with NO experience if you played them before HW.
Now look at the Optional quests (443):
121 in Limsa
116 in Gridania
130 in Ul'dah
44 in Cortheas
32 in Mor Dhona
And the class quests, 223 of them. You have to only do one, but if you don't do any, you don't get your level 30 skill for your combat class, nor do you get your "relic" weapon for the crafting classes.
Nothing in the storyline actually requires you to do any crafting, only that you get to a certain level in a combat class to enable it. There is no MSQ storyline tied to crafting. So...
No. Anyone asking for this is being an entitled brat who wants everything handed to them without working for it. If someone wants to create a second character and not slog through the storyline again, they do not want it bad enough. There's a Fantasia potion if you just want to change your character's appearance. This isn't other games that have punitive class/race locks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atrayl
I'll only give you this. It seems unreasonable to have characters created on the same server and account have the same MSQ lock for HW. One point of view is that maybe the other characters are someones spouse or kids, and you don't want their storyline spoiled by actions taken by the first character. But the other point of view is that "yeah but they probably shoulder surfed that content already", in which I'd suggest taking the approach that a few other games have and simply do a "Is this your first time playing FFXIV?" followed by "Another character on this account has completed 'A Realm Reborn', if you wish to automatically flag the storyline as done on this character, you may do so now. All the storyline quests will be flagged as completed and no experience rewarded. No quest rewards from the storyline will be available."
In which all the 7th Umbral and Astral era quests will be marked as completed, but no experience rewarded. This doesn't accomplish what the OP wants, but it would leave all the level locks in place. (eg level requirements for retainers, dungeons, jobs, etc)
If you answer YES to "first time" it will give you all the level 1 tutorial junk. If you answer "No" it will only mark all the tutorials as completed, specifically the "how to move, speak and emote" ones as well as skipping the opening cutscene. If you answer "I want to mark the storyline complete" to the second question, you still start at level 1, and still have to do the Job storyline(s). -
06-26-2015, 05:06 AMNightdreamerIf the story was a little more interesting I'd stop and actually read through it. There's a difference between quantity and quality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felis
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06-26-2015, 05:07 AMExotik_LegacyExplain to me why you think it would be ok for a brand new player to be forced through thee *324* quests to reach heavenward content if they infact purchased heavenward to play 1 of the 3 new classes. As well as forcing them to complete *Primarily 100-150 quests that tie to the actual story and the rest are all fluff when in fact by the time you reach around 180 quests your already level 50 with the current exp increases?Quote:
Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi
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06-26-2015, 05:08 AMLuvbunnyOK, I understand your points. But let's take an example of WoW. When you first play the game, you are level 1, and the only way you can get to level cap, and do all the raids at endgame, is by exploring the land, and DO ALL THE INANE GRINDING QUESTS for all those dumb NPCS everywhere in the over world. Or you can have one of your friend power level you through dungeons while you sit do nothing follow them around collecting loot to sell later. And how is this any different than FF14? Instead of bazillions trillions fetch kill x amount of mob quest, you are treated to a more "coherent, focused" story telling with occasional CS to "give your warrior of light a reason".Quote:
Originally Posted by Madjames
I like how now you can play the older dungeons uncapped, but you are getting ZERO xp if you do that from the trash mob. This to prevent you power leveling your friends to reach level 50. I rather take FF14 as it is, a very well done curated experience that forces everyone to stick through the MSQ and have to deal with dungeons via MSQ. Good thing they are not doing "open world, explore anything and everything how you want it" - if you are looking for this, there are other games like that, ESO seems to be a good match.
You see, we both see this differently. This is not just a straight up clone of every other online RPG out there. It is FINAL FANTASY game FIRST and FOREMOST, period. The specific target audience here is FF fans, this is why the game is huge in fan service from every other FF games and universe. They are selling a FF experience, story, and universe, with some online component, not the other way around. Everything is built around FF story and its rich history. It is FF brand and flagship title, so they should not be treated differently than other offline FF. You can literally solo your entire way to level 50 by doing MSQ, with the occasional one run for each dungeons needed to clear MSQ. And never have to touch endgame activities much other than your daily roulette for tomes (which you cap if you doing it daily in one week). They are not forcing people to grind dungeons other than necessary.
It is the journey that is more exciting, rather than "are we there yet so I can join the raid?". Obviously this part is extremely grating if you are leveling another alts like me... But I made peace with this, and I know "I can't have the game changed to suit my needs - just because I want it that way and faster for all my alts - instead of having to deal with MSQ again, and again, and again...". I understand there far many other players who want to play the game as is, they way it is intended by the creator.
But the BIGGEST difference for FF14 compared to other online RPG, is that once you did that MSQ, you are done, forever. Every other class you level after, you can just go into the massive braindead grinds of FATE, dungeons, levequest, hunting logs, daily roulette. Unlike WoW, where every single character has to go through the same rote bazillion trillion fetch quests. Obviously when FF14 gives the "pay $20 to get level cap" we will be talking different story. -
06-26-2015, 05:09 AMExotik_Legacy
If I purchased ARR and heavensward to play 1 of the 3 new classes that were advertised, and then found out I have to play a class that I want nothing to do with just to play 1 of those 3 classes, after spending all of that money Im stuck with a month of work which forces me to purchase a timecard as well just to play 1 of the 3 new classes where in my eyes thats when the game would really open up because its the class I wanted to play, I would be very upset and turned off from looking at this game.
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06-26-2015, 05:12 AMExotik_LegacyBut the story isn't more focused if the fluff is just stalling time and is completely irrelevant to both the story AND giving your warrior of light any reason for his reputation, the main story does this, not these fluff quests like ok ill find your airship, in the meantime do these bogus 10-15 quests and the they tell you oh its over here talk to him*gets sent to next hub for them to receive that 1 main quest then give another 15-20 quests and come back for the main quest to continue to the next hub* That is completely and utterly ridiculous if it is happening the entire game…..Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvbunny
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06-26-2015, 05:20 AMFelisQuality is in the eye of the beholder. Maybe because I read it instead of skipping it. Or because I don't read it in english.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightdreamer
Your description confuse me. In what lv 10-15 story quests have you to find an airship?Quote:
Originally Posted by Exotik_Legacy
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06-26-2015, 05:21 AMMadjames
The difference is that there is a CHOICE in the matter. Limiting choices is the heart of the issue and is a big turnoff to players such as myself when another play-style is being forced upon us and those players are actively looking for any means necessary to force it on us for no reason as it does not directly affect them at all.
This game is an MMORPG First, Themed Final Fantasy world second. If this was just another FF game then it would have been made as a single player RPG game period. They advertise this game as an MMORPG, its main target IS the MMORPG players not the FF players, you have it backwards.
Also I am NOT done with the MSQ forever if I want to level an alt. I had to downgrade my sub because I am not going through that crapfest again on another toon just so I can have two different races. -
06-26-2015, 05:25 AMMadjamesI read the story up to and including level 30, That took a long time, hours and even days. I think that is enough time to see if I like said story book or not. I have never given actual books or movies as much time to see if I liked them before shutting it off or CHOOSING to not purchase said book. The problem is we can not CHOOSE to turn off the MSQ and continue with the rest of the game as the MSQ is a very small and useless aspect of the game anyway. We lost a CHOICE here and that is a problem for new players who want to play the MMORPG side of the game and disregard the FF side of it like I want to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felis
You can not say that an MMORPG player does not have a right, nor should they not have a right to CHOOSE what they want to do and how they want to play a game they are paying for. If they like every other aspect of this game EXCEPT the minor small scale MSQ then we should be allowed to skip it and continue to level how WE see fit. If you do not allow us to do so then you are choosing the story huggers over MMORPG players who join this game for the MMORPG aspect no the Final Fantasy story aspect and that is wrong thinking and SE should have just made this game single player. -
06-26-2015, 05:28 AMFelis90% of the MSQ play like a single player JRPG, with NPCs in your group during instanced fights outside of trials and dungeons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Madjames
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06-26-2015, 05:29 AMLuvbunnyYes this is just a matter of different way of looking at the same thing really. I can feel your pain in leveling alts, truly, I had to to do MSQ three times (well borderline reaching to 4-5, I had to stop myself, lol). I don't see MSQ as a hindrance. I see it as just another way to get XP to level 50, but now, they double the XP on everything from 1-50 content which means faster way to 50.Quote:
Originally Posted by Madjames
You do have a CHOICE in skipping the CS now, you did not have it at launch. What I like about FF14 MSQ is that they are putting me on a very straight rail to get to 50 by doing MSQ, just follow the arrow, talk to NPCs, get XP. No more running around trying to figure out what to do next. And yes, 90% of the MSQ plays like offline FF series, which means this is a FINAL FANTASY game FIRST with some online component when you reach the endgame. It is no different from all of those Call of Duty single player game and its multiplayers mode, except with those games you can skip single player and just go straight to multiplayers. -
06-26-2015, 05:32 AMMadjamesWhile true the MMORPH side of the coin is much bigger then the MSQ side. You can not advertise this game as a JRPG when it is an MMORPG in the first place, as it would not be correct advertising. This is not a regular Final Fantasy game. This is an MMORPG in a final fantasy themed Virtual World!Quote:
Originally Posted by Felis
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06-26-2015, 05:36 AMFelisOr like, as an example, a multiplayer FF VII, where you have to follow the story to unlock the world and can do the dungeon fights together with other players who are at the same part or after in the story as you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Madjames
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06-26-2015, 05:36 AMMadjames
I skipped a bunch and you know what happened when I hit 50 and was the required level to go into the new expansion? It was gated behind the MSQ that is no longer relevant content and not relevant to my character at all but I had to spend over 20 hours during EA to even get into the expansion which is a big issue and an even bigger issue to new coming players.
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06-26-2015, 05:37 AMMadjamesAgain gating is fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felis
Gating the expansion to level 50 or higher is fine. Requiring say level 20 to get the new jobs, is again is fine.
Gating the expansion to level 50 and the 20+ Hours EXTRA of time in irrelevant content before you can get any jobs, fly, or even go into the expansion is not. That forced issue here is a big problem and I have already seen a turnoff from friends and family because of this very reason which does nothing but hurt the stability of this game, hurts SE with a loss of funds, which in turn hurts development costs to make new content, which in turn hurts us.
I would rather allow new players to skip the MSQ entirely and give them that CHOICE in how they want to play the MMORPG then not get any players at all and have this game not grow to its full potential.
I would also like to be able to skip the MSQ on my alt so I can level it up and have fun and not have to worry about some story that is not relevant to my character as my character makes his own story and destiny in the game everyday wakes up to go out into the world.
I already had to downgrade my sub and my wife's sub due to this MSQ issue which in turn SE lost out on an extra $4 a month. Now imagine how many others have done the same thing. It is never good when players stop supporting the game entirely or partially. -
06-26-2015, 05:37 AMLuvbunnyI do not quite get this... would you rather level your alts without doing MSQ, and instead having to run around doing mindless FATE, levequest, hunting log, and many more fetch quest - just like how WoW is set up? The MSQ is your main source bread and butter to get to 50 FAST ASAP, straight as an arrow, and you can mix it up with everything else to get there even faster now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Madjames
The MSQ 2.1-2.55 is a big of a let down to go through, I agree. It was great when you do it between each patches, but to go through all of them now at once can be somewhat annoying. But think of it this way, you want to do it anyway, because you want to see the rest of the dungeons they added in 2.1-2.55, as well as you want to get those 120 gears (which is far better than the crappy starting 115 gears) and last you at least till level 54 - if you upgrade them to 130, it will last you till level 56.
What they should have done is to let everyone with expansion access Ishgard if you complete the main story vanilla 2.0, but gate everything else outside Ishgard. So that all players at 50 (and finished with MSQ 2.0) can try the new jobs - and make the journey through 2.0 suddenly exciting again, at the same time enticing them to finish the rest of MSQ in between leveling the new jobs.
Although in all fairness, they have already given out all the information about Heavenward since March 2015, giving everyone ample time to come back for a month, finishing all MSQ and getting ready for the expansion. It's not like we are never being told that the expansion is gated behind 2.0. They are nice enough to let us start at 30 with the new jobs instead of having us to do it from level 1.... -
06-26-2015, 05:52 AMMadjames
I leveled from 30-50 doing fates because they were fun and I was at the same time getting flame seals for my GC. I was still in level 30 items when I hit 50 only to realize I had to do the MSQ. So I did the MSQ up to and including my magitek armor and vowed never to do it again.
I found out about the gated expac in the tail end of may having joined the game and started over completely on another server in march and leveled. So at the very end of may, and beginning of june I had to slog through over 40 hours of MSQ crap just to get to play with my friends in the expansion. Saddly, 20 hours of that was during EA. Between being an RN and having twin boys IRL, I did not have enough time to get it completed before the EA Started.
So to answer your question, yes, I would have liked the choice to level how I want to level and not be stuck on some rail story that has no barring on my character at all. As I said, I write books based on my characters in MMORPGS, I make their story's. Whatever SE comes up with is disregarded by me because my character is mine and I make his story, his personality, and decide what he would, or would not do in this virtual world, not SE.
S.E needs to trim the MSQ a bunch and give us the choice how to level, OR leave this decision up to us completely and leave this MSQ crap optional. For those that like it, it would be there for them, the story huggers. For those such as myself, we would level how we want.
This would make leveling a new character much more friendly and leave the story for those who are into that sort of rail story thing. People would not get pissed and leave the game due to this gating issue and more and more players would come to this game, it would grow and be good for everyone. -
06-26-2015, 05:55 AMExotik_LegacyWhy can they not allow us to enter ishgard at 50 to receive the new classes, without having to do MSQ 2.1-2.55 because it is all fluff of things to do mixed in with a couple relevant quest for patches to keep lv 50's busy until HS dropped, The new classes should have the pre-req of level 50 in a job, not level 50 + 20 or more hours of so called story quests/fluff quests.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvbunny
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06-26-2015, 06:04 AMFelisWhat reason would the Count Fortemps have to trust strangers and even allow them to enter Ishgard as his guests? Sure, they saved a friend of one of his sons, but will this be good enough?Quote:
Originally Posted by Exotik_Legacy
The doors of Ishgard are closed for strangers since the battle over the Silvertear Lake. There have to be a reason why our characters are allowed to enter it and at the end of Ultima battle a reason for it still don't exist. -
06-26-2015, 06:07 AMpolyphonica
I don't mind if they created a sort of "digest mode" that covered the cut-scenes and minor quests, but I do think it's pretty important that everyone at least have completed the essential level 50 dungeons and trials before proceeding to HW content. Even if you were to set aside the story entirely, many of the dungeon and trial mechanics in HW expect you to already be familiar with these previous mechanics. Even from a gameplay point of view, HW carries on from that harder level 50 content, and not just Praetorium.
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06-26-2015, 06:09 AModintius
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06-26-2015, 06:24 AMMadjamesSimple, in that trailer there was a massive army of dragons. Meaning that where they come from, something must have sent them, something that very well could be a danger to the whole world, not just one or two countries. My character would join with the ishgard people and be able to fight. Any country when attacked with a huge sizable force has always asked for help by neighboring countries when they knew they couldn't fend off said threat. It happened in WW2 and WW1. I do not see why this would not have happened or wont happen in Ishgard. Or you know, my character could just sneak in kinda like what happens on the boarders of mexico or Tibet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felis
OR Thee new job trainers could flee ishgard and I don't know, come to dragonhead to get away from the conflict and teach people their ways as to assure that their teachings live on. Its always the simple explanations that matter the most and I see no reason why any normal person could not think this way. This could have been a good gilsink. Pay 50k gil, learn the new job as the job trainers could leave for more money elsewhere. There are a number of different reasons or explanations as to why we could enter Ishgard without doing the MSQ or getting the new jobs without doing the MSQ. -
06-26-2015, 06:27 AMFelisIshgardians would still tell to you : "There is nothing to see. This is our war. Now go!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Madjames
Only after you saved them twice with defeating Shiva and defending the Steps of Faith they start to trust you enough. -
06-26-2015, 06:32 AMLuvbunnyI hate to tell you the story, but 3.0 is pretty much the same exact thing you have to go through from 2.0-2.55, with more quest chains (hide and seek is their main theme for 3.0, meaning you can get lost wondering what I need to do next if you skip the entire MSQ, not to mention, no access to dungeons). FATE is harder if you try to solo, not many players doing FATE in new areas since its far more efficient to do the old Coerthas bang a gong fate group. Older dungeons in 2.0 gives roughly about the same amount of xp - but then you are forced to relive the old content again and again to grind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Madjames
As far as for flying, LMAO, get ready for news flash, which is the biggest source of annoyance for me, especially if you have alts or planning to level alts. Can't fly until you gather all aether flows, some are hidden buried under myriad of chain quests, not exactly straight forward if you just focus on doing dungeons. There are only 6 dungeons, 2 endgame areas, 2 extreme primal for now. Pretty much everything you hate about 2.0, magnified three times bigger longer more annoying for people with alts to level like me.
On the plus side... doing it the second time around is faster for your alts, since you can skip all CS, focus on what matters and know where to find all those annoying aether flows. And the main missions give tons of xp, 25-68k or bigger. HW is generally a "harder version" of 2.0, supposedly, at least over world mobs are harder to kill. Dungeons are somewhat easy for the first three xp dungeons in new areas.
BTW, here is a tip if you have alts to level: instead of forcing yourself to finish all your 2.1-2.55 and have a seizure of "i am so sick of these dumb npc" - do it slowly. Log and do duty roulette for high levels, low levels, trials and guildhest, thats about 90 minutes or so. You can still get xp if you register the expansion - and do the MSQ a little bit at a time for your alts while you focus on your main character. This way your alts will be level 52 -ish by the time you unlock 3.0, which you kind of want this since the grind at lvl 58 to 60 is horrendous, so getting 2 levels ahead would be better.