Pay for your inventory.

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Originally Posted by Blissa

They are not making another dime off me! I canceled my sub and I canceled my preorder!

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Then none of this matters anymore to you, right?
So why are you still posting to the forums about things that no longer affect you?

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Originally Posted by Blissa

They are not making another dime off me! I canceled my sub and I canceled my preorder!

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I really hope you didn't use the pre-order code before doing that, I also hope SE isn't super strict with those kind of things as you'd be getting a freebie from them after cancelling if you did. :x

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Originally Posted by Lillia

I really hope you didn't use the pre-order code before doing that, I also hope SE isn't super strict with those kind of things as you'd be getting a freebie from them after cancelling if you did. :x

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I could swear to it that there is a warning when you redeem your pre-order bonuses code that you are unable to cancel your pre-order afterwards, but that might just be my imagination. If they didn't redeem their bonuses they should be good to go.

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Originally Posted by Blissa

Obliviously you must not craft. Because I have 4 retainers now ...

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I have every crafting class, along with Miner and Botanist, at L50. In contrast, I only have 6 DoW/DoM classes at 50. I think you can verify that on the Lodestone if you like.

So yeah, I craft. I love crafting. Crafted an Artisan's offhand for a friend yesterday, and it was thrilling when the final synthesis produced HQ.

Back in my day we didn't have no retainers. All we had was a gobbie bag and a mog safe... and we liked it!!!

Once the final patch notes are published, I wonder how many people will feel foolish for throwing a hissy fit over this. Maybe some? Maybe none? Maybe we'll all laugh about it, like an ending of a Scooby Doo episode?

With the increase of retainers, I hope they plan on improving the retainer interface. Dealing with four retainers was enough of a chore, with the current interface, I'm sure doubling that won't make things any easier.

I was begrudgingly fine with the store for glamour items, but retainers are part of the working game like rare pets and crafting material for example. It's crossed over to pay to win which is super disappointing. SE has gone down that slippery slope everyone was warning about. SE, please reconsider your decision on this one. No one likes to be nickle and dimed when they pay a subscription based game even if it's just glamour but this is going too far. TOO FAR SE.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Then none of this matters anymore to you, right?
So why are you still posting to the forums about things that no longer affect you?

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No it does effect me because I like the game. But I am not going to be foolish and throw my money away. And like I said its the principle $13 for a sub and $4 for 2 retainers and now another $8 for 4 more retainers. What is it going to be in a year from now another $16 for 8 more retainers? When does it end? Lets be real here if they added 4 more retainers, they could have doubled our retainer inventory and everyone would be happy. But instead you get double the inventory if your foolish enough to pay for it.

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

Back in my day we didn't have no retainers. All we had was a gobbie bag and a mog safe... and we liked it!!!

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lmao, I remember just packing my moogle house away with any kind of furniture just for all the bonus safe space. The Gobbie bag was awesome.

Of course, if you were die-hard and insane you also had like 5 different alts acting as mules.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

I have every crafting class, along with Miner and Botanist, at L50. In contrast, I only have 6 DoW/DoM classes at 50. I think you can verify that on the Lodestone if you like.

So yeah, I craft. I love crafting. Crafted an Artisan's offhand for a friend yesterday, and it was thrilling when the final synthesis produced HQ.

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Then you must not be doing anything with it. Because like I said you get 40 free slots to sell and you can get another 120 slots to sell for $12 which is a complete rip off. I could fill all 160 slots with 2 crafters with ease. In Everquest 2 you got 450 slots to sell per crafter and it was 100% free. SE wants to charge $12 for 120 slots to sell for all 8 crafters and all 3 gathers and all adventure classes. I mean come on I wasn't born yesterday! I am not going to foolishly waste my money.

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Originally Posted by Blissa

Obliviously you must not craft. Because I have 4 retainers now and 1 of my 8 level 50 crafters can FILL all 80 selling slots on my retainers. What am I supposed to do. Twiddle my thumbs and do nothing why I wait for stuff to sell? The expansion is in 2 days and they know people are going to need more spaces to sell. What a perfect time to hit them up for another $8 a month.

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80 selling slots is a lot. Learn to actually manage it. If you want to sell more items you need to sell cheaper or sell items that move quick just like everyone else. Massive inflation of supply will just make most things so cheap that it is hard to make decent profits. Is that what you want just so you dont have to manage your selling slots? 200 slots of stuff that will never sell or have to constantly be undercutted. Sounds great.

Even if everyone gets a free 3rd retainer there will still be just as many complaints from people asking for a 4th.

it's pretty much a rip of. Even F2P games i played handle that better.
First of all, FFXIV needs a lot more inventory then other games.

Lets look at games like Aion NA (free to play) - im not talking about if the game is good or not just the inventory.
Each character is one class. and you get like 90 or so inventory space on each. You can have 8 characters for free.

you have a common warehouse and every character has his own warehouse on top of that. It is more then enough.
BUT if you wanna have more, then you can buy more. But unlike SE its a one time payment and stays like that forever.
SE charges for it every month, If the game develops like it does now... what good is all the vanity if you have to sell it/toss it...
Also crafting is way too complex to have so few space.

But well... the servers are already bad, the stabiliy of this "blabla millions of reg. users blabla" mmo... are a joke. If they continue to use it as a cash cow only its gonna hurt them in the long run.
doing basicly nothing for months before the release while server stabiliy gets worse and then charging full for an expansion is yet another bad move from SE...

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Then none of this matters anymore to you, right?
So why are you still posting to the forums about things that no longer affect you?

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Attention. Anyone that fickle with their sub to cancel the second they read some preliminary patch notes is going to cancel anyway for some other reason they can come up with.

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Originally Posted by Blissa

No it does effect me because I like the game. But I am not going to be foolish and throw my money away. And like I said its the principle $13 for a sub and $4 for 2 retainers and now another $8 for 4 more retainers. What is it going to be in a year from now another $16 for 8 more retainers? When does it end? Lets be real here if they added 4 more retainers, they could have doubled our retainer inventory and everyone would be happy. But instead you get double the inventory if your foolish enough to pay for it.

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I mean... You could just not pay for the retainers? You get to enjoy the game and make a statement at the same time. I agree that it's kind of sketchy they're costing money (especially considering they worded it in the past like people would be getting 1 or 2 extra retainers for free for Heavensward), but just not paying for the retainers makes the statement.

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Originally Posted by CYoung187

80 selling slots is a lot. Learn to actually manage it. If you want to sell more items you need to sell cheaper or sell items that move quick just like everyone else. Massive inflation of supply will just make most things so cheap that it is hard to make decent profits. Is that what you want just so you dont have to manage your selling slots? 200 slots of stuff that will never sell or have to constantly be undercutted. Sounds great.

Even if everyone gets a free 3rd retainer there will still be just as many complaints from people asking for a 4th.

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If you like it or not there are going to be a ton of people paying for all 6 retainers. And they will tank the market boards. Me complaining about prices is not going to stop other people from doing it. I am just not foolish enough to pay $25 a month for a single mmorpg subscription.

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Originally Posted by CYoung187

Attention. Anyone that fickle with their sub to cancel the second they read some preliminary patch notes is going to cancel anyway for some other reason they can come up with.

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That's funny I have been playing this game since release I have 5 level 50 adventure jobs and I have 8 level 50 crafters and I have 3 level 50 gathers and I have a medium house that I put over 30+ million into the house. I am very dedicated to this game but I am not dedicated enough to pay $25 a month for a single mmorpg sub!

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Originally Posted by Blissa

If you like it or not there are going to be a ton of people paying for all 6 retainers. And they will tank the market boards. Me complaining about prices is not going to stop other people from doing it. I am just not foolish enough to pay $25 a month for a single mmorpg subscription.

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Neither will 99% of the playerbase, we will pay the minimum or close to it and enjoy the heck out of it while you stew about how unfair it is.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

there is already enough room for everything.

if you want to keep more then you actually need then you will need to pay.

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No. There is not!

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Originally Posted by Blissa

Then you must not be doing anything with it.

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You seem to have an unfortunate tendency to make statements about things you know nothing about, like what I do or do not do with my 8 L50 crafting classes. I don't think you are doing yourself any favors just making stuff up like that.

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Originally Posted by nuyu11

More retainer more venture right?
More venture it means more chances to get rare pet isn't it?
I'm smellin $$ to win

Still noob with retainer services because never lvl retainer yet.

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Indeed it IS pay to win!

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

Back in my day we didn't have no retainers. All we had was a gobbie bag and a mog safe... and we liked it!!!

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YES! YES! The pain to adding in housing items that gave space, with the moggy safe and gobbie bags! Omg the pain it was back then.... And crap didn't even stack like that!

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Originally Posted by CYoung187

Neither will 99% of the playerbase, we will pay the minimum or close to it and enjoy the heck out of it while you stew about how unfair it is.

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I am not stewing I am voicing my opinion with my wallet. I was paying $204 a year for a sub and I bought the collector edition for $60. I canceled them both!

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Originally Posted by Lillia

snip

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Originally Posted by IceWing

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They should make it that you get an extra free retainer when you buy an expansion, to accommodate the newer items that you will get in the newer areas.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

You seem to have an unfortunate tendency to make statements about things you know nothing about, like what I do or do not do with my 8 L50 crafting classes. I don't think you are doing yourself any favors just making stuff up like that.

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Trust me I know because just 1 hours worth of effort is enough to fill a 20 slot retainer.

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Originally Posted by lokinmodar

No. There is not!

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25 spaces per Armoury page. (managed to think 30 for a reason while still doing all the math for 25 slots, I am error.)

Main Arm for each class - 20 spaces/+3 come HW (This leaves 2 free spaces)
Secondary Arm - 21 (+1 for PLD) = 24 come HW
All body gear, if we are looking at having all unique attire as some is still shared, 20 spaces/+3 come HW
Accessories, looking at about 7-8 slots as most are shared between roles and dps types
Rings, 14-16 spaces (still leaves 6-4 free spaces)
Soul Stones spaces are constantly expanding

Accessories and body pieces are all give or take, depending if jobs share the same thing. Main Arms are your only solid contender, and still you have empty slots. So where is it that we're capped in terms of necessary space?

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Originally Posted by Lewtskie

25 spaces per Armoury page.

Main Arm for each class - 20 spaces/+3 come HW (This leaves 2 free spaces)
Secondary Arm - 21 (+1 for PLD) = 24 come HW
All body gear, if we are looking at having all unique attire as some is still shared, 20 spaces/+3 come HW
Accessories, looking at about 7-8 slots as most are shared between roles and dps types
Rings, 14-16 spaces (still leaves 6-4 free spaces)
Soul Stones spaces are constantly expanding

Accessories and body pieces are all give or take, depending if jobs share the same thing. Main Arms are your only solid contender, and still you have empty slots. So where is it that we're capped in terms of necessary space?

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Great.

Now add crafter materials to that lovely math.

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Originally Posted by Ashgarth

Great.

Now add crafter materials to that lovely math.

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I.. don't think you're supposed to shove crafting materials into your armoury? I mean, unless there's a special feat for that with crafters?

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Originally Posted by Lewtskie

So where is it that we're capped in terms of necessary space?

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That means if you want to carry fun items that you don't want to glamour over your gear (santa set, halloween set, vday set, etc.) you have to put it in your regular inventory and take up even more room. :( I would love to see a nice increase in armory space even more than a free retainer. Also, you're forgetting that jobs that share gear aren't necessarily the same BiS pieces either, so that adds to the space issues.

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Originally Posted by Lewtskie

Accessories and body pieces are all give or take, depending if jobs share the same thing. Main Arms are your only solid contender, and still you have empty slots. So where is it that we're capped in terms of necessary space?

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Depends on the person, some like myself have a few different gear sets for whatever I'm doing. Such as a Pvp set, a Dps Tank, or a Tanky Tank.
Not all have different weapons but some do and if I were to have a set for all my jobs + the pvp sets or dps tank set in addition to a set or two for my dps jobs such as High Accuracy Ninja, or Low Acc Ninja, and Pvp Ninja. While these extra sets are not required they are good to have for those of us who like to do our jobs 100% of the time and not sit back and hit 123 123 123 123 123 /doze,

If all the extra bytes required to store additional data in retainers are so costly and valuable, how about we free up all the data the millions of RMT/gathering bots have tied up with their accounts? The minuscule amount of actual data storage you get from additional retainers, in relation to the price per byte of data, is essentially at the price per byte people had to pay in the 70's/80's when data storage methods were much less efficient than they were now. These days data is so cheap I could set up one free 5GB web based email account after another... so charging is a $50 a year for a few bites isn't something they do out of necessity to simply pass their costs on to the customer, they're charging it because they know people are constrained by the existing limits that are there and their only choices are to make undesired trade-offs (discarding things they'd like to keep- when is that a friendly position to put a customer in), or to pay the amount that's only reason for being set as it is, is because it's the most they think they can get away with charging. It's called price gouging. It's like when you go to the amusement park and have to pay $5 for a bottled water from a vending machine that costs $1.99 elsewhere. Sure, you don't have to buy that drink if you get thirsty, you can just be uncomfortable, and with the extra price you're paying for the 'convenience' lol but somehow the cost of that convenience goes way the hell up when there are no other viable options.

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Originally Posted by Blissa

Trust me I know because just 1 hours worth of effort is enough to fill a 20 slot retainer.

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And how fast do you think, say, 20 HQ Artisan offhands would sell? It's bad business to massively invest in slow-moving inventory, and that's a lot of Sealant, that is, a lot of gil, to have tied up.

Not everyone wants to sell mass quantities of cheap items. There's plenty of fun and profit in expensice stuff.

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Originally Posted by Aethaeryn

That means if you want to carry fun items that you don't want to glamour over your gear (santa set, halloween set, vday set, etc.) you have to put it in your regular inventory and take up even more room.

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It does suck, some fun is lost.

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Originally Posted by IceWing

Courier Carrie was here.

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See, someone now brings up an excellent point. At least, with the PvP situation. Unfortunately the outside the meta gear for roles and extra weapons/tools aside from maybe working on 1 relic at a time can't really be justified. Technically I was pushing it just having all gear for all jobs in your armoury all at once. I think the ideal they aimed for was having 4-5 jobs worth of gear in the armoury at a time and THEN having alternate pieces. This being unless you're a person with a thing for having some complex rotation and playing every job in succession, lol.

350 retainer inventory, 40 MB slots, and 2 gear sets in use by your retainers on top of your armor, armoire, and inventory is more then enough. But, allowing the purchase of 6 additional without giving any more space with the expansion is very disappointing.

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Originally Posted by Rath

350 retainer inventory, 40 MB slots, and 2 gear sets in use by your retainers on top of your armor, armoire, and inventory is more then enough.

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You obviously don`t craft nor collect gear right...?

So here it is and this is the last thing I intend to say on this subject.

Whether you think charging customers a subscription fee for bank space is fair or not is irrelevant. Whether you think the price is too high or not is irrelevant. Whether you think people can "like it or leave" is irrelevant.

What is relevant is that this is an unprecedented move on the part of Square Enix. Final Fantasy XI made you pay for character slots, not inventory slots. FFXIV does much the same thing with its two-tiered sub structure, but with the notable difference that creating mules is functionally impossible (or at least impractical).

Charging a subscription fee for bank space is an unprecedented move not just for a subscription MMO, but for any MMO as far as I know. And a scaling subscription fee at that. This type of fee opens the door to charging subscription fees for other in-game upgrades that are and have been free for the entire history of MMOs. This is extremely dangerous for the health of the MMO market.

Imagine please, SE asking you for $2/month extra per expansion in addition to charging you the box price. Imagine please, SE asking you for $1/month extra for an additional race to be unlocked on your account. Imagine please, SE asking you for an extra $3/month for your player housing.

The exact numbers here are just as irrelevant as the retainer price, but I trust you can see where I'm going with this. I realize this sounds like a slippery slope argument and it is. But there's a reason for that. This is, IN FACT, a slippery slope. Allowing increased subscription fees for something that has NEVER cost extra money EVER in a subscription game opens the door to all sorts of awful eventualities that I can't even foresee right now.

I'm not saying this one thing is the doom of all mankind. I am saying that this is an extremely dangerous move and if SE is allowed to get away with it, we can't even know what the end result will be.

Buy it. Don't buy it. That's up to everyone here individually. But I'm telling you this is a dangerous road we're on.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

No need for that, there are plenty of major F2P games.

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Yeah... obviously youre missing the point. Either that or have grown so used to willingly being milked for scraps of what should be a fully featured quality product, that you fail to see how F2P is anything but free. Rather an elaborate bait to give players a taste of the quality they can have, and entice them to buy it one piece at a time.

Guess im one of those old farts who grew up in a time where developers strived to make games as fun and complete as possible for our money. Not thinking what they can hold back to try and make you pay extra for it later.

Oh and those thinking that its cool because youre giving SE more money to develope blah blah blah need to stop being so naive. The only thing participating in cash shop purchases will ever give you is more cash shop stuff. The only 'quality' youll ever see from your "generous contribution" will be exactly where you invested it, the cash shop.

Case in point, how much have they made from the cash shop? From extra retainers alone? Look where its gone... instead of expanding or even fixing a problem even Yoshi has admitted many players are having... they open up more space behind more fees. So where is all that going to? Still waiting on housing... the expansion we're already paying $40 for?

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Originally Posted by Callinon

What is relevant is that this is an unprecedented move on the part of Square Enix. Final Fantasy XI made you pay for character slots, not inventory slots. ...
Charging a subscription fee for bank space is an unprecedented move not just for a subscription MMO, but for any MMO as far as I know. (emphasis added)

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You DO know that you've been able to pay $2/mo for each of two additional retainers for quite some time now, right? I've been paying an extra $4/mo for two more retainers ever since I discovered the option to do so in February, and I don't think it was new then.

They are just increasing the number of extra retainers you can subscribe to from 2 to 6, is all. Nothing new, just more of what we had before.

I just don't see why people can't see that this is obviously pay to win?

Do you have to get better gear, stats or a content clear for it to be considered P2W? I don't think so, but a good bit of you seem to think that is the case for anything considered P2W.

More people should be concerned about changes like this because if you tolerate them, they will continue to walk this fine line until something you want or desire is behind a paywall.

I put this in my last post, but we said it then. I'll say it now. What is next?

We pay a sub to play. We shouldn't have to pay for anything else. ALSO had I known of this 1 change prior to purchasing HW - I would not have bought it.

Criticize me if you will for the sentence above, but its not fair that someone who is willing to fork over more money a month gets more inventory space, ventures and selling slots than I do. It's ridiculously unfair...and about as close to P2W as SE has come thus far with FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by VoltaAsura

I just don't see why people can't see that this is obviously pay to win?

Do you have to get better gear, stats or a content clear for it to be considered P2W? I don't think so, but a good bit of you seem to think that is the case for anything considered P2W.

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Because that is near-literally the definition of paying to win. You are paying money to increase your rate of progression and getting an edge on any challenge towards killing something which is essentially what 'winning' is in a MMO.

Retainers aren't giving you an edge in clearing Coil. Nor do they make progressing through quests any faster, same with leveling.

Having Sleipner as a mount doesn't make you do more damage, except to maybe someone's ego or whatever.

You can't have extra minions join you in fights and kill things.

You are paying for a convenience. Not something you need and not something that will make you better.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

You obviously don`t craft nor collect gear right...?

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I was a 4 star crafter about 3 days after they came out. I just don't stuff my retainers full of crap materials (that I can buy anytime on the MB). You don't stuff your home full of all your baby clothes, baby food, last years dirty socks, etc., or you get called a hoarder. Just because you do it in-game, doesn't mean it isn't hoarding.

Edit: I also have items from 1.0 still that are unobtainable, and I still have never had inventory issues unless I ignored my retainers or did not sort/sell stuff I was not planning to use. I also do not agree with allowing the purchase of six more without giving an additional one, but I don't think it is needed either way.